Update: The European Union has now released final details about who will be allowed in as of July 1, 2020.
As I first wrote about several days ago, it looks like Americans will be banned from entering the European Union for quite some time, even when external borders reopen. This shouldn’t come as much of a surprise, given how the coronavirus situation has been handled in the US.
Well, we now have some more information about what countries we should expect to be banned from the EU come July 1 (or whenever the reopening actually happens, as there’s always the chance that the timeline could be pushed back further).
In this post:
EU borders are expected to reopen on July 1
External borders of the European Union have been closed for several months now. Initially they were supposed to reopen as of June 15, and most recently that was pushed back to July 1.
It goes without saying that this is an evolving situation, given the balance between trying to revive tourism while also trying to prevent the spread of coronavirus.
The EU plans on opening external borders as of July 1
Americans expected to be banned from Europe
While the European Union is expected to open borders on July 1, it looks like people residing in most countries — including the United States — will be banned.
All draft documents of potential nationalities to be allowed in the European Union exclude Americans, Brazilians, and Russians. It’s expected that a final proposal will be published in the coming days.
The European Union seems to be leaning towards only allowing in visitors from countries with lower infection rates over the past 14 days than the European Union average. Currently the European Union has an average of 16 cases per 100,000 people, while the US has 107 cases per 100,000 people.
Obviously things have changed a lot in the past few months. On March 12, President Trump introduced a European travel ban, at a time when the US had a total of 1,100 coronavirus cases and 38 deaths. As he explained, the US had taken “early and intense action,” and needed to protect citizens from those coming from “hotspots.”
A few months later we’re at over 2.5 million cases and over 125,000 deaths. Even at this point the US still has a ban on travel from Europe, despite the fact that overall things have gotten much better there than here.
Americans are expected to be banned from Europe beyond July
Which nationalities would be allowed in Europe?
It’s now being reported that EU nations have tentatively agreed on what countries visitors should be allowed from when borders reopen.
This could of course still change between now and when borders open, but as of now it appears that only nationals from 15 countries will be allowed into the European Union. This represents a significant decrease over the 50+ nationalities that were initially expected to be allowed.
Visitors from the following 15 countries are expected to be allowed in, per The Washington Post:
Algeria, Australia, Canada, China, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia, and Uruguay
That’s still quite a small list. Regardless of what list is decided on once this is finalized, the plan is for it to be reviewed every two weeks, meaning that the list of nationalities allowed in the EU will be constantly changing.
Even though this is apparently the agreed upon list now, there’s still some disagreement between nations regarding the criteria for determining whether people should be allowed or not. Specifically, there are concerns that data from some countries isn’t reliable, largely due to a lack of testing.
Visitors from Korea would be allowed in the EU
Individual countries don’t have to follow EU recommendations
It’s worth noting that while the European Union publishes recommendations for member countries, in reality they don’t actually have to follow these recommendations. The European Union concept has really been put to the test in recent weeks, as we’ve seen internal border closures.
What this means is that we could see some European Union countries open to tourists not on the “approved” list, but this would likely also mean that internal borders would need to remain restricted, which is complicated.
For example, Iceland is part of the EEA (not the EU), and the country has been following EU recommendations. However, Iceland has stated that they’ll welcome Americans as of July 1 regardless of what other countries do. It remains to be seen if that will still be the case.
Iceland plans to allow Americans regardless of what the EU says
The right approach to travel restrictions
Up until now a lot of travel restrictions have been based around your nationality and/or country of residence, rather than based on where you’ve been in the past 14 days (or so).
I understand this is maybe intended to just oversimplify things, but does this really make sense? For example, theoretically:
- Should a Canadian who has been in the US for the past month be allowed to enter the European Union?
- Should an American who has been in Iceland for the past month not be allowed to enter the European Union?
I’m surprised in general by how few travel restrictions are based around where you’re traveling from, but rather are based on what passport you happen to hold.
Restrictions should be based around where you’ve traveled, rather than your passport
Bottom line
While external EU borders are expected to be reopened as of July 1, don’t expect everyone to be welcome. Specifically, it would appear that there are plans to ban Americans from entering the European Union, among citizens of other countries. I certainly can’t blame them for that.
As of now it looks like only visitors from around 15 countries will be allowed into the European Union, so that’s a very limited reopening. We’ll have to see how this evolves, given the pace at which things change.
U.S. Passport holder here. Had plans to return to Europe back in May, but obviously that didn't happen. Haven't been in the U.S. since 2018, currently in Canada, and have been since March (running out of time here). Guess I'm going to have to find a place that will accept me, or go back to the U.S.? Seems illogical that I am just as much of a risk as any other Canadian, but am not...
U.S. Passport holder here. Had plans to return to Europe back in May, but obviously that didn't happen. Haven't been in the U.S. since 2018, currently in Canada, and have been since March (running out of time here). Guess I'm going to have to find a place that will accept me, or go back to the U.S.? Seems illogical that I am just as much of a risk as any other Canadian, but am not permitted based on citizenship? I know they are saying "residency" but I am nomadic, so I don't have residency anywhere, right?
Church gathers are a problem because it is a large group of people indoors and largely not wearing masks. Many of the protestors wore masks and were outside where it is less likely. Sure large groups outside still isn't good but being outside and largely wearing masks is much, much less risky than a large group inside w/o masks. Geez.
And i live in AZ and the main problem is the lack of masks. Enough...
Church gathers are a problem because it is a large group of people indoors and largely not wearing masks. Many of the protestors wore masks and were outside where it is less likely. Sure large groups outside still isn't good but being outside and largely wearing masks is much, much less risky than a large group inside w/o masks. Geez.
And i live in AZ and the main problem is the lack of masks. Enough people simply don't wear it.
I understand everyone wants this to magically disappear but it isn't. It is like someone who has been seriously injured with permanent damage, or someone who was just told they had some serious disease, you keep wishing it didn't happen to you/family/etc. and think when you wake up it will just disappear and be a bad dream. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen and until you accept the new reality this could be the situation for years. It sucks, but just like someone with a serious illness or life changing event, until you accept the situation, you can't move forward successfully. People who live in denial will not survive or will harm others.
Too many American people are just lost.
@Mitch Cumstain - lol nuff said
@Karen Fisher
It’s true that some European countries don’t meet the 2% NATO contribution target. Others exceed it (the U.K., for example).
But in your focus on hard (military) power you’re ignoring the other component of power projection, soft power. For 50 years(!) the UN target has been at least 0.7% of GDP to be allocated to international aid, but it appears the USA has never achieved this target.
Whereas significant numbers of European...
@Karen Fisher
It’s true that some European countries don’t meet the 2% NATO contribution target. Others exceed it (the U.K., for example).
But in your focus on hard (military) power you’re ignoring the other component of power projection, soft power. For 50 years(!) the UN target has been at least 0.7% of GDP to be allocated to international aid, but it appears the USA has never achieved this target.
Whereas significant numbers of European countries exceed it (the U.K. again, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark — the latter countries putting more into soft power but less into hard).
The world is a complicated place — soundbites and slogans rarely capture the complexity.
@Icarus @David - if you'll look at my past comments, I've mentioned multiple times that I'm a small time actress who's been exposed to some features in the past. I make low 6 figures and am definitely not important so please don't paint me as part of the DYKWIA crowd please. My intention in describing my travels to Germany was to give context on my interactions with Europeans and their behavior in the not so...
@Icarus @David - if you'll look at my past comments, I've mentioned multiple times that I'm a small time actress who's been exposed to some features in the past. I make low 6 figures and am definitely not important so please don't paint me as part of the DYKWIA crowd please. My intention in describing my travels to Germany was to give context on my interactions with Europeans and their behavior in the not so distant past. Anyways - I'm used to being criticized by mediocre men as soon as they realize that I've appeared in an adult film.
@Mitch Cumstein - Always great to come across someone who's heard of me. :) My email is in my twitter bio if you want to get in touch @SexyKarenFisher
Everyone knows nothing has been officially determined yet...right? So much can be made of N.Y. Times reporting in such a short time and end up being bogus.
Owning stock in Spirit airlines and some other domestic entertainment companies I think this is fantastic. Keep the American tourist spend here instead. I’m not being sarcastic when I say I truly hope the EU keeps the ban for a couple of years.
My AirBNB hosts in Rome and France are sure excited about me coming in October :)
@Karen Fisher, just wanted to say I'm a big fan of your work. And I'm not talking about the TV spots.
@Stuart, you'd have to be a bit cheeky to make it work. Italy's entry requirements currently exempt "passengers traveling on business". You need to fill out a form claiming "proven work needs" and substantiate the work to the Italian authorities upon entry. Then you'd likely be able to travel elsewhere in the EU. This could very well change next month.
The Covid numbers are rising due to the 600,000 plus tests a day. Doesn’t mean it is not a problem. However, the severity of this flu is weakening...even European experts are saying this. The death rate is plummeting too. I only pay attention to the actual numbers not how they are spun by the MSM. Take time to do the math. Hospitals are not overrun in any state with Covid. USA might not be ready...
The Covid numbers are rising due to the 600,000 plus tests a day. Doesn’t mean it is not a problem. However, the severity of this flu is weakening...even European experts are saying this. The death rate is plummeting too. I only pay attention to the actual numbers not how they are spun by the MSM. Take time to do the math. Hospitals are not overrun in any state with Covid. USA might not be ready yet to enter EU...that’s fine. It won’t be long though...maybe 30-60 days. Until I hear the State Department announce something I will hold off judgement as to what is fact. Pompeo said last week they are discussing border reopening with the EU. You would think the airlines all know to some degree what is going on. Professional sports are getting ready to go as well. Too bad peoples feelings are based on politics and not the facts.
Nativism and ignorance are finally are coming home to roost in the good old USA. Until the USA gets its' covid numbers down significantly Americans aren't going any where except Iceland. God luck Iceland!!!
Hi all,
Wondering if anyone can answer this question: Can American citizen who is residing in one of those 14 countries that made the list to enter the EU starting July 1 enter the EU/Germany?
My boyfriend is an American citizen who has been residing in Japan for a year now. Now that Japan made the list, he is trying to come see me in Germany next week we are not sure if the entry...
Hi all,
Wondering if anyone can answer this question: Can American citizen who is residing in one of those 14 countries that made the list to enter the EU starting July 1 enter the EU/Germany?
My boyfriend is an American citizen who has been residing in Japan for a year now. Now that Japan made the list, he is trying to come see me in Germany next week we are not sure if the entry will be granted.
He has an US passport but has a proof from the US army orders that he has only been in Japan this whole time. Does anybody know? :(
@EC2 a little fact-check on your ‘ The state of Victoria in Australia is reimposing lockdowns because of their protests.’
This is not true because
The state of Victoria has not reimposed lockdown.
Only 2 cases have any connection with the protests
The cases connected with the protests have not been shown to cause any spread although tracing is continuing
Spread has been associated with large family gatherings, contrary to the current...
@EC2 a little fact-check on your ‘ The state of Victoria in Australia is reimposing lockdowns because of their protests.’
This is not true because
The state of Victoria has not reimposed lockdown.
Only 2 cases have any connection with the protests
The cases connected with the protests have not been shown to cause any spread although tracing is continuing
Spread has been associated with large family gatherings, contrary to the current rules, and people going to work with a positive test or without receiving results.
As ever Stay Home
Is it just more or has this article been recycled like 3 times?
I think everyone should learn to be more patient and simply recognize that the 2020 travel season is a total loss. We need to do what it takes to eliminate this virus.
@Karen
Everyone has specialties, and clearly yours is not in history, politics, international relations, medicine nor epidemiology, so lets just all stick to what we know.
Also it's a bit hypocritical to tell others not to get personal, then turn around and assume you know how much fun he has had in his whole life, no?
This Karen person's posts are very strange
@icarus - I don’t appreciate the sarcasm and personal attacks. No need to go so low over a disagreement in opinion; let’s skip the personal attacks. Focus on facts my friend.
Yes, I’ve appeared in adult films when I badly needed a paycheck. Yes, I’m small-fry in the acting world. But I’m very happy with how my career turned out. I get to do something I love and make a very comfortable living, even...
@icarus - I don’t appreciate the sarcasm and personal attacks. No need to go so low over a disagreement in opinion; let’s skip the personal attacks. Focus on facts my friend.
Yes, I’ve appeared in adult films when I badly needed a paycheck. Yes, I’m small-fry in the acting world. But I’m very happy with how my career turned out. I get to do something I love and make a very comfortable living, even though I know I’ll never be a big time star.
Anyways, if you watch one of those adult films, you’ll see me having more fun in 20 min than you have in your whole life sweetie. Don’t shame me for something I had to do to make ends meet in the 2008 crash, before I found my nice in television commercials.
And to everyone’s arguments. And fact if the matter is, nobody can rebut the fact that the usa has fewer deaths per capita. And nobody can dispute the fact that the USA saved europe twice (1917 and 1941-45), and rebuilt the continent. We continue to protect you guys with bases in ramstein, estonia, and turkey.
Cut us some slack, otherwise when putin decides to capitalize on the covid situation, maybe we won’t cut you any.
@Adam Guillette
You have to realize that the US troops are not stationed in Europe (and all around the world) to provide security for the host countries, but solely for the United States own interests.
They are basically circling around Russia and China. Without the power of 800 military bases in 70 countries the US would not be able to enforce the Petro-Dollar. And without that one the US-Dollar and the US-economy would...
@Adam Guillette
You have to realize that the US troops are not stationed in Europe (and all around the world) to provide security for the host countries, but solely for the United States own interests.
They are basically circling around Russia and China. Without the power of 800 military bases in 70 countries the US would not be able to enforce the Petro-Dollar. And without that one the US-Dollar and the US-economy would be tanking like nothing else.
But as a European I would be more than happy if the US retracts all it's troops from our continent.
@Joe Chivas...I have heard this as well but for the life of me can not find any information as to criteria. Do you have any links?
Don’t believe that there were so many protesters tested here in the US. Just trying to minimize any impact from the protests. The state of Victoria in Australia is reimposing lockdowns because of their protests. Everyone can bitch about FL, but it’s the counties of Miami-Dade and West Palm that are driving those numbers. Those counties can impose restrictions as they please irrespective of the Governor. As far as the E.U. banning Americans - fine....
Don’t believe that there were so many protesters tested here in the US. Just trying to minimize any impact from the protests. The state of Victoria in Australia is reimposing lockdowns because of their protests. Everyone can bitch about FL, but it’s the counties of Miami-Dade and West Palm that are driving those numbers. Those counties can impose restrictions as they please irrespective of the Governor. As far as the E.U. banning Americans - fine. The restrictions will stay mutual.
Pretty sure there will be a supplemental notation about not having visited any of the 15 non-listed countries.
An American who needs to desperately visit Europe for urgent business - it’s not life or death though it’s vital for my business. I had planned on having a day old COVID test result (obviously if it was positive I wouldn’t go) and have an invitation from a European bank I am doing business with.
No one, including some well placed friends I have, know if this would allow me entry?
I wish the EU...
An American who needs to desperately visit Europe for urgent business - it’s not life or death though it’s vital for my business. I had planned on having a day old COVID test result (obviously if it was positive I wouldn’t go) and have an invitation from a European bank I am doing business with.
No one, including some well placed friends I have, know if this would allow me entry?
I wish the EU would make an exception for those with urgent business and a very recent negative COVID test result. I want to be responsible and understand the EU’s concern over American infection rates but eventually this will kill my business and while I am not the only one that’s small consolation.
The patriotic chest pounding by some people here are hilarious.
Regardless of how important you think the US tourists are, they are nothing compared to the cost of another wave + shutting down businesses again. Your tourists are not more important than the entire economy of EU countries, not to mention the political fallout, which no politician will want.
This is what happens when everyone in the world is sensible when it comes to masks...
The patriotic chest pounding by some people here are hilarious.
Regardless of how important you think the US tourists are, they are nothing compared to the cost of another wave + shutting down businesses again. Your tourists are not more important than the entire economy of EU countries, not to mention the political fallout, which no politician will want.
This is what happens when everyone in the world is sensible when it comes to masks and air travel, while a large swath of Americans decide they know better and would rather make a political statement out of COVID 19.
It's just sad that the majority of sensible Americans have to suffer this because of the idiotic half.
America is banned while China is allowed? That makes zero sense. Perhaps it's time to cut our ridiculous foreign aid to Europe and also time to bring our troops home. Let Europe pay for their own national defense, finally.
@Stuart, you should be able to enter Europe now with "proven work", no idea if that exception will change on July 1.
I’m surprised that Taiwan and hk isn’t on the allow list since they have smallest infection and hospitalization rate in the world. Their published numbers certainly are more accurate than the supposed number from china.... just saying.
@Mary Hallisey
I came a few weeks ago to EU from Brazil with EU passport and the border guard in FRA did not spoke any single world to me, just scanned my passport and let me in. I entered Germany, not went through transit passport control.
Americans are banned, and Chinese are welcomed.
From todays news:
"China imposed a strict lockdown on nearly half a million people in a province surrounding the capital to contain a fresh coronavirus cluster on Sunday, as authorities warned the outbreak was still "severe and complicated."
Clearly the CCP is far more skilled at combining bribing and arm twisting than the US.
@Stuart, it is a mess and not effective. My friends mother in law has dual Greek and US citizenship, but has been in the US the past 6 months. She traveled from Newark to Frankfurt then to Athens and once in Athens NO test even though she originated from an area on the EASA list. All these restrictions are doing is killing product and instilling fear without any effectiveness. I really hope Greece and Portugal...
@Stuart, it is a mess and not effective. My friends mother in law has dual Greek and US citizenship, but has been in the US the past 6 months. She traveled from Newark to Frankfurt then to Athens and once in Athens NO test even though she originated from an area on the EASA list. All these restrictions are doing is killing product and instilling fear without any effectiveness. I really hope Greece and Portugal and the southern countries for once grow backbones and stand up to the EU bullying (in this case in the form of threatening to close their internal borders to countries who fully open up) and act independently to save their economies this season. Let everyone see the "solidarity" the EU touts when they once again abuse the smaller southern countries. They won't do it though, they never stand up for themselves. This is the gripe many have with this bloc. It is run by a couple powerful countries who ALWAYS put their interests first. Nation states cannot even decide on their own borders, does that not alarm anyone? They've been colonized, that what this EU experiment is.
@all new yorkers,
What the hell did you do in March? The virus was around since January! Italy outbreak was mid of feb.
New York is leading the game only is simply because 20K people lost their lives. And it's on Cuomo, de Blasio and sure Trump's hands.
As the most free country in the world aka no one care anyone else even their family members, I saw it since Italy got it. I predicted 2million infection back in Feb but looks like I'm too optimistic.
No problem. I'll take my American money to the Maldives and French Polynesia and, if desperate, the Caribbean.
@Andy. Thanks for the insight as to the criteria being argued. It's helpful to understand what options I may or may not have. Please do share if you hear more. I am hanging by a thread trying to figure out what to do as I'm about to lose a deal there that is critical.
I am hoping they choose to go the route of "where you were 14 days prior." For some of us who...
@Andy. Thanks for the insight as to the criteria being argued. It's helpful to understand what options I may or may not have. Please do share if you hear more. I am hanging by a thread trying to figure out what to do as I'm about to lose a deal there that is critical.
I am hoping they choose to go the route of "where you were 14 days prior." For some of us who have essential business needs in the EU, but no dual passport, this is at least an option. I, for one, am willing to do just that. Quarantine in the UK or Canada for example and then enter. It makes more sense anyway as, what Ben said, if based solely on citizenship and passport, someone with a Canadian passport who has been in the U.S. can simply fly via Canada and land in the EU with no questions.
This approach would at least give an option to those with cross Atlantic relationships or family to visit. And business travelers who have critical deals to also enter. While, at the same time, prevent the throngs of leisure travelers in groups that, of course, will not quarantine for a vacation.
@karen Fisher DYKWIA. No. One very minor part in a Czech movie 20 years ago , doesn’t make you an actress
Service clients. Lol Enough said each to their own
Anyhow , we should ban trump supporters. The US has many wonderful things , especially culturally. Wonderful orchestras, opera , dance, drama, museums Some of the finest music schools in the world ( Juilliard ) We need more of this an less trump
I don't think the EU can legally bar their own (dual) citizens from returning, only require them to quarantine on arrival. I have US/Germany dual and the current regulation reads as follows:
The Commission states as follows:
EU citizens and citizens of Schengen Associated States and third country nationals legally residing in the European Union, as well as their family members, should be exempted from the travel restriction, regardless whether or not they are...
I don't think the EU can legally bar their own (dual) citizens from returning, only require them to quarantine on arrival. I have US/Germany dual and the current regulation reads as follows:
The Commission states as follows:
EU citizens and citizens of Schengen Associated States and third country nationals legally residing in the European Union, as well as their family members, should be exempted from the travel restriction, regardless whether or not they are returning home.
Member States can, however, take appropriate measures such as requiring such persons to undergo self-isolation or similar measures upon return from a third country for which the temporary restriction on non-essential travel is maintained, provided they impose the same requirements on their own nationals
This is the current travel restriction (Prior to July 1) and I doubt July 1 restrictions will be even stricter on EU citizens.
I’ll chime in and repeat what I’ve said before
Do not make any non refundable travel plans.
Don’t prepay for anything you can’t afford to lose (company may go broke leaving you as unsecured creditor)
Have enough dollars in the bank to pay for last second emergency evacuations if you go and get stuck somewhere due to rapidly closed borders
The rules will change and continue to Change on a moment’s...
I’ll chime in and repeat what I’ve said before
Do not make any non refundable travel plans.
Don’t prepay for anything you can’t afford to lose (company may go broke leaving you as unsecured creditor)
Have enough dollars in the bank to pay for last second emergency evacuations if you go and get stuck somewhere due to rapidly closed borders
The rules will change and continue to Change on a moment’s notice
What is allowed today will be banned tomorrow Then allowed again
Yes, economies need tourism
Yes, most young and healthy people do well with this
However, this virus kills the Boomers And great grandmothers
Who has the vast majority of political power around the globe, regardless of government type? Boomers
So you better understand that each economy will close down on a dime the second the ICUs fill and there are body bags in piles in the alley behind the hospitals. The Boomers will not die for us.
What politician is going to say “I am sorry that our hospitals are overrun and your parents died, but the Americans want to come here and vacation!”
Even the governor of Texas reclosed parts of his economy. Why? Because Houston ran out of ICU beds. In summer (which never happens). He looked at his voters (boomers). California closed counties as some areas ran out of beds and had to transport their patients to Bay Area
COVID plus flu will devastate us this winter
I, an avid traveler, canceled all travel the next 18 months for this reason
FWIW I am a doctor and administrator for a large health system who works with our department of health
A truthful title would be "America infection rate too high to be able to enter Europe". Your title is awful; the EU is banning ALL countries who have a high infection rate; they're not singling out Americans. America chose to have a disastrous response to COVID-19 and has a high infection rate.
But the author is American, so you get the typical ugly-American self-absorbed view that it's all about them. Newsflash -- the world...
A truthful title would be "America infection rate too high to be able to enter Europe". Your title is awful; the EU is banning ALL countries who have a high infection rate; they're not singling out Americans. America chose to have a disastrous response to COVID-19 and has a high infection rate.
But the author is American, so you get the typical ugly-American self-absorbed view that it's all about them. Newsflash -- the world has moved on, especially when it comes to COVID-19!
It’s sad to see this situation happening however I dont believe anyone would disagree with the EU’s decision. Its untrue when people say it looks like US passport holders Brazilians and Russians won’t be allowed in , sorry but it’s DONE and official. Being a dual passport holder US/ Australian but living in Australia we are one of the lucky countries permitted entry but most Australians have been advised to give Europe a miss this...
It’s sad to see this situation happening however I dont believe anyone would disagree with the EU’s decision. Its untrue when people say it looks like US passport holders Brazilians and Russians won’t be allowed in , sorry but it’s DONE and official. Being a dual passport holder US/ Australian but living in Australia we are one of the lucky countries permitted entry but most Australians have been advised to give Europe a miss this year and we are still not permitted to travel internationally until further notice.
@Ben - For posts like this that you update (which then triggers an update to the rss feed and also bumps them to the top of your page) it would be very helpful if you highlight/bold or find some other way indicate the most current update to the post! Today (6/28) for example, I can't figure out what is new news.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
Just returned from Sardina. No issues what so ever.
We had a greeter meet us upon landing.
@ Ben -- Well, Trump has done a fine job. I guess that US middle class spending power isn't so valuable after all and has been easily by China's middle class. Of course, these travel restrictions have no impact on the morons that support Trump since none of them have passports.
@ Karen Fisher
Some European countries exceed the NATO target, others don't meet it.
I suppose the US could once again pursue an isolationist policy, just as it tried a century or so ago -- though I would argue that that didn't end very well and it probably cost the US a lot more than international engagement would have.
Then again, you've chosen to be a top-tier FF with United, of all airlines, so I'm not sure you demonstrate very sound judgement.
According to the Sunday newspapers here in Europe, there were talk of the Schengen countries on Saturday, but hey ended without an agreement. Apparently there are two camps, the hawks who want to use immigration/travel based on citizenship as a token in negotiations and the doves who want a facts based criterion related to where someone has spent the last two weeks (i.e. aggregated case incidence over the last 14 days).
As I stated before,...
According to the Sunday newspapers here in Europe, there were talk of the Schengen countries on Saturday, but hey ended without an agreement. Apparently there are two camps, the hawks who want to use immigration/travel based on citizenship as a token in negotiations and the doves who want a facts based criterion related to where someone has spent the last two weeks (i.e. aggregated case incidence over the last 14 days).
As I stated before, I’m a dove and strongly in favor of a facts based criterion - not that I have anything to say in the negotiations ...
@Stuart I have appeared in a couple adult films recently but my bread and butter is commercials in germany. I once appeared in a feature called ‘when grandpa loved rita hayworth’
I travel to germany regularly to do tv commercials and otherwise service clients. I can assure you german clients are less pleasant than american ones. I’m glad my agent will be prioritizing usa work this year.
@Karen Fischer. I "looked you up" as you suggested to all here. The only Karen Fischer I can find in German acting circles is an adult porn star. Is that the one? Otherwise, can you give you a direct link to what we are supposed to be looking at that gives you the credibility you are seeking?
The "wonderful" thing about americans is they never learn. it was part of their charm. Gore Vidal.
The "wonderful" thing about americans, is they never learn. Gore Vidal.
@the nice paul
We have hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in europe. They don’t even meet their MINIMUM obligation to spend 2% of GDP on defense by nato membership.
Absolute joke, we should leave them for russia to take (except poland their cool).
I’m probably wayy more well travelled than you kid, been a top tier ff at united for 24 years. Sometimes i’m recognized walking down the street from my acting appearances in germany! Look me up.
@constantine, do you know any Greek?
This won't last long. We traveled to Europe, Egypt and Scotland last year and as always Americans make up the majority of tourists.
@sam, Using whataboutism to try to defend a communist dictatorship is always a clear sign of a CCP troll. I do not defend anything separate coming out from the current administration. But you are trying to defend and spread propaganda for the Chinese government. You killed that doctor who blew the whistle and you know it. You covered up information and still will not let the international community in to investigate. No one believes any...
@sam, Using whataboutism to try to defend a communist dictatorship is always a clear sign of a CCP troll. I do not defend anything separate coming out from the current administration. But you are trying to defend and spread propaganda for the Chinese government. You killed that doctor who blew the whistle and you know it. You covered up information and still will not let the international community in to investigate. No one believes any of your numbers or propaganda. Is China carrying out tests at the dog slaughter festival currently underway? Tell us about that and how well you are containing the outbreaks there, please.
@Rupert, there is nothing anecdotal about my experience and my family's experience with the American market in Greece. I don;t know what other data to give you; you want receipts now? Its a huge market for Greece and there is the matter of all the Americans with Greek backgrounds in the US who may have property there and don't get counted in tourism numbers.
Testing per capita to 1000 people is actually what is recommended...
@Rupert, there is nothing anecdotal about my experience and my family's experience with the American market in Greece. I don;t know what other data to give you; you want receipts now? Its a huge market for Greece and there is the matter of all the Americans with Greek backgrounds in the US who may have property there and don't get counted in tourism numbers.
Testing per capita to 1000 people is actually what is recommended as criteria as far as everything I have read; I did not just make up a convenient metric as you seem to be doing.
I agree with you that contract tracing in the US is abysmal and this has not been handled well at the Federal level. And many ignorant people, with diverse beliefs and political beliefs, have not taken this seriously for awhile (I have liberal friends in Cali at the moment not caring at all by the looks of their socializing and lack of mask wearing). Meanwhile I have quarantined in NY and grown very restless in my NYC apartment, taking every precaution possible.
However the matter of Germany dictating to Greece is a sensitive topic yes, as they have turned my parent's ancestral land into a colony, basically a Florida for Europeans. And now they are dictating that the 1.5 million Greek Americans who reside in the US cannot even enter their ancestral homeland this year to see their relatives (some of us actually know where and have close ties to the place we come from, Rupert). Even those of us from states FAR away from any spikes in Florida. Whatever happened to the EASA list?
Rupert check other social media sites and the NY Times comment section or any place posting about this and you will see the gleeful bile being thrown about, as if all American citizens are some derelict breed to be punished.
This affects people in various ways so cool it with your assumptions about anyone having an agenda (I don't like Germany?? That's not true; I just don't agree with some of the decisions they have made over the past several years and the manner in which they decide what is best for everyone in the bloc with little benefit to several southern countries there).
It's OK though, they can have their colonized eu-Florida all to themselves and the Brits can have their all inclusive holidays in Greece this year while we get barred from seeing our families and friends, even though we come from states hundreds of miles away from any outbreak. Cheers mate.
interesting comments, maybe some facts would help:
@Ben - the headline is needlessly inflammatory and the comments show it: The EU is not "banning" anybody. The EU external borders are currently closed and it's recommending to open it based on risk and reciprocal policies to some countries. The risk is assessed, among others, the number of new cases over the last 14 days per 100,000 p.
@Robert Schrader - while it would make...
interesting comments, maybe some facts would help:
@Ben - the headline is needlessly inflammatory and the comments show it: The EU is not "banning" anybody. The EU external borders are currently closed and it's recommending to open it based on risk and reciprocal policies to some countries. The risk is assessed, among others, the number of new cases over the last 14 days per 100,000 p.
@Robert Schrader - while it would make perfect sense to look at the travel history rather than passport, that's not what's happening consistently. Each EU country handles immigration, maybe following the recommendations or not, and some are making decisions based on passport, without checking travel history. There have been a number of reports in the EU press of US citizens being denied travel, despite having spent weeks/months in Europe already...
@Constantin - you are talking about facts, but use anecdotal evidence and personal bias instead: a quick Google search shows that the US makes up less than 5% of foreign visitors to Greece (give or take the year), so even if your friends like them and we are big tippers, US visitors are near irrelevant to the Greek tourism industry...
and the testing numbers in total or relative to population are poor measurements - more relevant for a risk assessment of the current situation is the number of tests relative to the total cases, so that contact tracing, treatment and isolation can occur. So, using your comparison of the US (2,5M cases) and Germany (200,000 cases) Germany (which you don't seem to like very much) is conducting 25 tests/case and the US metric is less than half. Furthermore, there is no concerted effort in the US to trace contacts and quarantine suspected or confirmed cases. Therefore, the testing numbers in the US are pretty much useless. Just for reference, neither is great - Vietnam has conducted 800 tests/confirmed case, which is why they have less than 400 cases in a country of almost 100M people and no death....
Lastly, the EU is making an effort to standardize the rules to protect the frictionless travel inside the EU. If some countries, as you suggest, don't follow the recommendations, internal border controls will have to be implemented. When free travel inside the EU was implemented, it was predicated on the joint, common protection of the exterior borders. If some countries don't want to protect the common EU area from this health threat than they can't expect to benefit from the freedom - with freedom comes responsibility...
I think the EU is setting an example for how to handle travel going forward, based on science and clear metrics, allowing countries to work towards achieving those. If other countries can agree to same/similar metrics, it will be a lot quicker to establish safe travel corridors around the world than trying to negotiate bilateral travel bubbles - countries in Asia and Oceania have tried to negotiate those for months with no results to show for it...
@Joe. They removed a paragraph calling out your fashion favorite, RS.
@Stuart, how were your comments diluted?
@ Karen Fisher
"We pay for their safety and rebuilt their bomb riddled country yet look down on us."
So, you must have been alive and paying taxes in the late 1940s, right, if you are part of the "we" that paid to rebuild...? Presumably if you're going to take credit for historical good things, you also accept all the blame for the bad things - you know, things like genocide of Native Americans,...
@ Karen Fisher
"We pay for their safety and rebuilt their bomb riddled country yet look down on us."
So, you must have been alive and paying taxes in the late 1940s, right, if you are part of the "we" that paid to rebuild...? Presumably if you're going to take credit for historical good things, you also accept all the blame for the bad things - you know, things like genocide of Native Americans, enslavement of vast numbers of Africans, internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2, taking the side of the colonialists in Vietnam, assassinations in Latin America... all that stuff?
All countries have good stuff and bad stuff in their histories. It seems utterly weird for those of us alive today to take personal credit (or blame) for stuff that happened before we were born.
For people making comments like this has gone on long enough, has it really? Because the pandemic is still a huge issue in The US. Some people are still refusing to wear masks or social distance and try and make it into a political statement. Europe, Asia, and Australia have far better leadership and are more so about science.
People whining about needing to go to Europe when the pandemic is surging in America...
For people making comments like this has gone on long enough, has it really? Because the pandemic is still a huge issue in The US. Some people are still refusing to wear masks or social distance and try and make it into a political statement. Europe, Asia, and Australia have far better leadership and are more so about science.
People whining about needing to go to Europe when the pandemic is surging in America get no sympathy from me. I completely understand why they are doing this to protect citizens and lives. This is for safety purposes it's not just because they have something against you personally and want to make your life difficult.
Bindair, you are actually supposed to look at per capita testing per 1000 people. And this puts the US at 4th in the world on testing per 1000 citizens. Ahead of every country in the EU actually, since you want to make this into some sort of tacky competition? Germany is waaay down on that list at 14. and India my gosh is like 24.
@constantine,
The US is testing far more people than any other country in the world? In absolute numbers maybe. But that is not an objective way to compare.
Comparing the # of tests performed per million people is.
Per June 26 the US tested 92k per million. Spain tested 110k per million. The United Arab Emirates tested 312k per million. So no, the US does not test “5 times as many” as any other country in the world. Not by far. The US ranks number 10 in testing.
@Constantine- actually, the US is the only government to announce they were suppressing the number of test cases. "So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’"
In China, they spent $280M to test the entire population of Wuhan. So it's pretty clear here who the liars are, and that you are the troll...
I’m a small time actress but really liked in television commercial circles in germany. They are so awful to deal with. Thankfully I won’t have to visit and my agent will need to find me other work :)
We pay for their safety and rebuilt their bomb riddled country yet look down on us. Honestly disgusting.
I'm still planning to go to Europe in 2 weeks, I live in the US but am an EU citizen and want to see family. This has gone on long enough. I believe they will let me in, but I'm guessing my flight will now be cancelled and I'll get rerouted through another US city. Also have to quarantine when I get back to the US unless the rules change. Nobody wins with this decision.
@Tiffany and Ben. If you want to block my comments, do it. If you want to edit them for calling out another blogger, RS, don't bother. I am not being polite anymore. Ban me if you want. But I don't appreciate your taking editorial control of my comments and diluting them to your whim.
Hey Bill, yes I read geographics are being considered as well. Among the options being discussed are travel restrictions based on US geographic regions, rather than a sweeping ban on the entire country, since some regions have higher infection rates than others, two EU officials told CNN."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/26/europe/eu-coronavirus-travel-ban-us-intl/index.html
There was talk that there are negotiations suggesting that there may be possible geographical limits for the US when it comes to travel to the EU. For example, certain regions may be allowed to travel where other regions are not allowed to travel to the EU. Any word about the status of that? It sounds like wishful thinking but I heard its being actively discussed.
Nothing is official until you hear what the State Department policy is anyway.
So it's official. We are banned from the EU. Thank you to all the freedom loving deniers out there that screwed our place in the global market. You better believe I am mad. Not at the EU. But at every one of you that yelled, "sheep" and planted false data to sway the idiots in power in SOME states to be the worst sheep of all....followers of denial and ignorance.
In the immortal words of my Grandmother, "Lazy people do twice."
I am still planning on my trip to Rome in October and Amsterdam for Holidays. A US ban is not going to last...it’s all politics, a N.Y. Times story. A am disgusted with the politics, USA hate, immature leaders, and corruption on both sides. A couple getaways to Europe and the planning sounds great to me...and well needed relief.
1. What is used to determine residency, and how long does one need to reside in a country where one is allowed entry into Europe for one to be allowed to travel?
2. I see China as only listed as allowed only if it grants reciprocity. However, New Zealand is not allowing EU residents to enter currently, so are its residents only allowed if it grants reciprocity as well?
3. I do not understand why...
1. What is used to determine residency, and how long does one need to reside in a country where one is allowed entry into Europe for one to be allowed to travel?
2. I see China as only listed as allowed only if it grants reciprocity. However, New Zealand is not allowing EU residents to enter currently, so are its residents only allowed if it grants reciprocity as well?
3. I do not understand why the EU does not allow countries to follow Iceland's approach, which is allow arrivals from "unsafe" countries as long as they get an immediate test and prove that they are negative. My guess is that Austria would be open to this as well if allowed.
4. Is this regarding Schengen or the EU Plus as a whole? I am trying to determine how this functions regarding travel corridors--if one beat the July 1 deadline and went to the UK and did their two weeks of mandatory quarantine, would one be allowed in Spain if they departed from the UK because it is part of the travel corridor, or does the travel corridor only apply to UK residents?
@Constantine, I agree with your points and want Americans to be allowed to travel as badly as you do. However; I think that the difference regarding the UK is that the UK is still a part of the European Union, so I am not sure that they are able to ban the UK in this.
Counting the # tests is irrelevant ...
It should be
1.tests per capita
And
2.positivity rate
And
2. Tests per person(some people test a lot and that should count as 1)
That will help understand what the real deal is but all.of that is difficult to collate...
@Nick I actually heard the US was lobbying HARD not to be on the bad list and it still didn't happen. The UK is set to be able to travel to Spain, Greece and France by July 6th and they have similar cases to the US, so this is just mindboggling. In your mind, when will US citizens be let in? Delta is still flying direct to Paris Amsterdam and Athens in July. I am booked with Delta in July direct to Athens but am waiting any moment for them to cancel the flight.
It's all political theater. Once the EU tourism industry complains loudly enough that they need American tourists to spend $$ these restrictions will be lifted.
@Sung: "Still amazes me that most Americans don’t have passports"
42% of Americans, or about 147 million Americans have passports as of 2019. That's still lower than many other rich (and usually far smaller) countries, but the old anecdote about "only 10% of Americans have passports" is very outdated.
People seem to bring this up to imply that Americans are incurious, lazy, or unwilling to travel anywhere. That may be true for some kinds of...
@Sung: "Still amazes me that most Americans don’t have passports"
42% of Americans, or about 147 million Americans have passports as of 2019. That's still lower than many other rich (and usually far smaller) countries, but the old anecdote about "only 10% of Americans have passports" is very outdated.
People seem to bring this up to imply that Americans are incurious, lazy, or unwilling to travel anywhere. That may be true for some kinds of people (although you can find such people anywhere). Really, Americans travel a lot too... it's just that we live in a gigantic country, where one can travel thousands and thousands of miles over land or by air, and not cross an international border. Until 2007, no passports were even required to get to Canada or Mexico. Basically, the only reason most Americans ever got a passport (until the last 10 years or so) was if they were taking an *intercontinental trip* - something that very few people, anywhere, do with regularity.
Europeans may travel "internationally" far more than Americans, but that's because an international trip for many Europeans can be an hourlong flight or an afternoon's drive in almost any direction. Yes, the Schengen Zone doesn't require internal passport control, but passports were often needed for generations prior to it's creation, and even today, passports may need to be carried for spot checks, temporary control points, or of course, travel to nearby countries outside Schengen.
It's difficult to find source data for individual European countries, but anecdotally, it appears abou 30-40 million French passports are in circulation, for example, meaning around 45 - 60% of French people may hold passports. Only a moderately higher fraction than American passport ownership today.
It's the RICH World Travelers Tax them to Death so the Poor Travelers can Travel..
So glad now that people in the south (texas, Arizona, SoCal, Florida) is finally getting the hint that wearing a mask and not partying at bars is the right way to curb this virus. It took “few” infections and hospitalization to make it happen but I’m glad they are finally on board. It’ll take at least two three weeks before we see flattening of the curb in that part of US. Once that happened, I’m...
So glad now that people in the south (texas, Arizona, SoCal, Florida) is finally getting the hint that wearing a mask and not partying at bars is the right way to curb this virus. It took “few” infections and hospitalization to make it happen but I’m glad they are finally on board. It’ll take at least two three weeks before we see flattening of the curb in that part of US. Once that happened, I’m sure our European friends will open up their boarder to us again. Until then, everyone needs to sit tight and wear their masks and practice social distancing.
@Andrew, China tried to cover up the virus once Chinese medical professionals blew the whistle on it early on. They jailed and threatened journalists and scientists trying to get accurate information on it. The spread of the virus was very much caused by the CCP and its attempts to cover up, then control information on it. The US along with other countries were taking very piece meal and inaccurate information from the WHO, which was...
@Andrew, China tried to cover up the virus once Chinese medical professionals blew the whistle on it early on. They jailed and threatened journalists and scientists trying to get accurate information on it. The spread of the virus was very much caused by the CCP and its attempts to cover up, then control information on it. The US along with other countries were taking very piece meal and inaccurate information from the WHO, which was being controlled by China, as their guide. Your response is usually a sign f a CCP troll to be honest. I have not heard anything about US under reporting and infact the numbers here may be blown up from things like reporting deaths as due to covid on very old and sick patients, which has infact been documented. Pointing fingers is definitely not a solution but any free person, Chinese citizen included, knows how rotten the CCP is and how they had a chance to contain this virus's spread early on; instead they let their citizens travel and did what communist dictatorships do. I am not a Trump supporter and am generally a-political; and the Chinese government is a malicious unfriendly entity that will do more damage in the coming years unless a coalition is formed to contain them. Trump cannot form coalitions, however there are plenty of US leaders who can and understand the power of effective alliances, and they are coming back soon.
@Bob Vance — I don't know if I'd say China "caused" the pandemic. The virus originated in China. Many factors contributed to its spread around the globe. In any event, playing the blame game is unproductive, and I don't think the US has anyone to blame for its response to the pandemic other than itself.
And even if it were true that China is deflating its numbers, I don't think China is unique in that...
@Bob Vance — I don't know if I'd say China "caused" the pandemic. The virus originated in China. Many factors contributed to its spread around the globe. In any event, playing the blame game is unproductive, and I don't think the US has anyone to blame for its response to the pandemic other than itself.
And even if it were true that China is deflating its numbers, I don't think China is unique in that regard. As an example, the CDC has indicated that cases in the US may be underreported by a factor of 10, given the lack of testing. And was Trump only joking when he threatened to cut federal funding for testing and said that if the country stopped testing there wouldn't be an increase in cases?
So China who caused the pandemic and is obviously deflating their numbers are welcome, but we're not? Has the EU decided that they're going to be favoring China more than the US now?
@Sven, of course. Informed discourse and respect usually does not jive with media outlets' business models though. Hate and rage sells subscriptions and keeps web traffic/engagement up so that ad sales can better bring on clients. People miss this, generally; they are being inflamed by articles like the NY Times one in order to sell subs. That article was way longer than it needed to be, and was not really providing news, just commentary based...
@Sven, of course. Informed discourse and respect usually does not jive with media outlets' business models though. Hate and rage sells subscriptions and keeps web traffic/engagement up so that ad sales can better bring on clients. People miss this, generally; they are being inflamed by articles like the NY Times one in order to sell subs. That article was way longer than it needed to be, and was not really providing news, just commentary based on a situation. The internet also affords people anonymity to be dim and insult others/troll as well as voice their "alarm" on the latest target (usually the US). Its nothing new. I'd say informed discourse and ability to disagree or engage with opposing view points is virtually non-existent these days as society has been polarized on purpose in order to drive through agendas. Anyway, stay well and let's see how this situation shakes out. They've already killed a good segment of the American market anyway and this idea that anyone besides the EU economy will be hurt by this is silly.
So glad the United States is once again respected in the world!
@darren actually according to the EU commission if your a US citizen or a citizen on one of the countries not on the safe list of your not living in that country but a country on the safe list your okay.
Now Karma is hitting the US back! US citizens are singled out as highly infected. Who have thought of that? Really pisses me off! The EU is getting its good portion of laugh over us.
@lucky Any idea how EU airlines will handle Americans with flight reservations due to the ban? I have an upcoming flight on Ryanair that I will not be able to take from the UK to Italy due to my US Passport. I would love a refund but I doubt Ryanair will help.
I stand corrected it does seem to be where youve been residing not where you actually are from. Good thing for me I havent been in american in years.
I have to agree. The majority of Americans don't care if they can travel to EU or not, I mean only 42% of Americans have a passport. And I'm willing to bet that from 42%, the majority are with a immigrant background/foreign spouse/multinational child, that need passport to visit their "home" country. So dual citizens EU/US will be able to go back to EU, US/Mex will go to Mexico, US/Canada will be able to get...
I have to agree. The majority of Americans don't care if they can travel to EU or not, I mean only 42% of Americans have a passport. And I'm willing to bet that from 42%, the majority are with a immigrant background/foreign spouse/multinational child, that need passport to visit their "home" country. So dual citizens EU/US will be able to go back to EU, US/Mex will go to Mexico, US/Canada will be able to get in to Canada, etc...
Still amazes me that most Americans don't have passports, yet those that do, travel quite extensively.
The airline that I think will struggle the most is TAP, since they primarily focus in Brazil and now United States.
I dunno if portuguese government would want to be the country responsible to spread COVID-19 even further into the European Union
Does anyone have information on whether you can enter and accept quarantine for 14 days? It appears I will have no choice but to do this if that's going to be allowed.
I'll leave this right here
Mount Sinai Study Finds First Cases of COVID-19 in New York City are Primarily from European
The explosion of Covid-19 cases in the New York City area resulted largely from infected patients who flew in from Europe, genome scientists say.
New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, new study finds
I believe over 50% of Americans don't even have a passport so that means the majority doesn't really care whether EU or other countries are banning us from visiting them.
While this looks great for me in Canada, unless Canada stops requiring a 14 day quarantine upon return, it’s not really feasible to travel to Europe.
@joern or people coming from “safe countries” will be allowed entry it just seems to say countries ie citizens
@joern, the key sentence seems to be "Decisions on lifting travel restrictions would concern non-EU nationals residing in a specific country (not its nationals)." The way I read that is that an American residing in Canada would be permitted to enter, but a Canadian residing in the US would not be permitted to enter (assuming Canada is a green light country and the US is a red light country). However it seems like EU nationals...
@joern, the key sentence seems to be "Decisions on lifting travel restrictions would concern non-EU nationals residing in a specific country (not its nationals)." The way I read that is that an American residing in Canada would be permitted to enter, but a Canadian residing in the US would not be permitted to enter (assuming Canada is a green light country and the US is a red light country). However it seems like EU nationals (e.g., US/EU dual citizens) would be allowed in regardless of residence. These are only recommendations, though, so who knows what will happen next week.
As Americans, living abroad in the Middle East, we watch in horror how this is handled by the USA. Not a political statement - I could care less which party is in the White House. There is almost zero leadership nor strategy for a virus that has and continues to kill 1,000s. Americans who want to travel abroad are being isolated due to this. Who can blame any country not wanting to bring in anybody...
As Americans, living abroad in the Middle East, we watch in horror how this is handled by the USA. Not a political statement - I could care less which party is in the White House. There is almost zero leadership nor strategy for a virus that has and continues to kill 1,000s. Americans who want to travel abroad are being isolated due to this. Who can blame any country not wanting to bring in anybody from the USA knowing it could be catastrophic for their country. The tourism $ are not worth it. Frankly, the USA needs to get over itself in their thinking that the rest of the world is in awe of Americans. That ship has sailed, the train has left station, the barn door is left open, whatever.
We are actually afraid to come back to the USA for a visit - one: for the greater chance of catching the virus and two: the ability to travel back to where we live.
#staysafe #stayhealthy #wearanfmask
I'm surprised they trust the numbers coming from China.
Also, I'm surprised to see India included in the EU entry list. Just yesterday it had 18k new positive cases.
@joern nowhere here does it say people residing in high risk areas...
Ben, it appears that there is a slight misunderstanding in your post compared to the recommendations published by the European Commission, see https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1035
Specifically, reading the commission's publication the travel ban would be for people residing in high risk areas, not for people who are citizens of high risk areas. Your post seems to imply that you think that the EC is doing the ban based on citizenship, however, and that just is not what...
Ben, it appears that there is a slight misunderstanding in your post compared to the recommendations published by the European Commission, see https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1035
Specifically, reading the commission's publication the travel ban would be for people residing in high risk areas, not for people who are citizens of high risk areas. Your post seems to imply that you think that the EC is doing the ban based on citizenship, however, and that just is not what the commission is proposing.
@Constantine: And finally I want to add, that I really appreciate that we can have a civil conversation here while disagreeing on the extend economies should open up now (which is now a really emotionally charged and sometimes very partisan issue).
I hope you have the same impression about our conversation here.
@Constantine: It seems that there are still direct flights between LIS and GRU, but that at the moment only EU and Schengen citizens are let in (but only if they arrive from the EU/Schengen). So I guess Portugese nationals at the moment the only ones that are allowed entry arriving from Brazil.
Anyway anything the EU will decide regarding travel restrictions will only have advisory status.
You are right of course that local...
@Constantine: It seems that there are still direct flights between LIS and GRU, but that at the moment only EU and Schengen citizens are let in (but only if they arrive from the EU/Schengen). So I guess Portugese nationals at the moment the only ones that are allowed entry arriving from Brazil.
Anyway anything the EU will decide regarding travel restrictions will only have advisory status.
You are right of course that local outbreaks shouldn't lead to a large scale lockdown, they should lead though to a strong local lockdown that could even be enforced stricter than a nationwide lockdown before.
@Sven, btw isn't Portugal currently allowing entry from Brazil?
@ Sven, it is unfortunate. I hope they recocer quickly. I am a massive Liverpool supporter and watching everyone celebrate at Anfield from TV this evening, I thought to myself (welp, there may be an outbreak in Liverpool emerge in a month). To be honest though I do not think we need to shut everything down again or implement rigid restrictions as long as protocols are obeyed and in place along with health infrastructure for...
@ Sven, it is unfortunate. I hope they recocer quickly. I am a massive Liverpool supporter and watching everyone celebrate at Anfield from TV this evening, I thought to myself (welp, there may be an outbreak in Liverpool emerge in a month). To be honest though I do not think we need to shut everything down again or implement rigid restrictions as long as protocols are obeyed and in place along with health infrastructure for those seriously affected. It is like trying to contain a cold or bug. It is really impossible. And how long can we stay like this.
@Constantine:
Btw: With the recent outbreak in a large slaughterhouse in Germany they are definitely in danger of not meeting the criteria themselves. Coastal cities have already told people from the districts where the slaughterhouse and its employees are located that they will not be allowed to spend their holiday there. I really hope that the EU will be just as strict to German tourists and not let them travel freely in case they don't meet the criteria.
@Constantine:
The US has currently 3.3 times more detected infections per capita than Germany, that can't just be explained by 2.25% more tests. And the fact that the ICUs in Houston for example are near maximum capacity shows that it's not just the increased testing that lets the numbers rise (or at least plateau) in the US
@LC:
1. We don't have a final list yet, just for now the criteria after the decision will be made. Both Sweden and the UK should be excluded at the moment (although the UK will reach the goal pretty soon, so I would guess they can be included at least only a week later)
2. Why should we look at deaths? At least the total number of deaths says nothing about how prevalent...
@LC:
1. We don't have a final list yet, just for now the criteria after the decision will be made. Both Sweden and the UK should be excluded at the moment (although the UK will reach the goal pretty soon, so I would guess they can be included at least only a week later)
2. Why should we look at deaths? At least the total number of deaths says nothing about how prevalent CoViD19 is in a population. The important number here has to be the number of new infections over a certain time frame. Of course you are right that more testing will lead to more detection of cases (and now the US tests more than any other nation), but the US is so far off the threshold that even with that in mind the US has to be excluded for now. A possible other measurement could be of course the new deaths per capita over the last two weeks, but as the counting of CoViD19 deaths throughout different nations is just as inconsistent as the testing rates, we wouldn't win be using that measure.
3. plus the rest: The number of deaths per capita doesn't look too good in the US and especially in the UK, so I'm not sure how you can claim that Donald and Boris did a good job. Besides that as a European I'm not really interested in your local politics. It's probably right, that Cuomo screwed up just as bad in the beginning, but your extreme partisan divide will never allow any meaningful assessment on any measures - be it on local, states or federal level - from both sides of the aisle.
Ryan I agree in some regards. I live in NYC and with the information that was given, I think it was handled OK. Do you think China shared information on this in a transparent way to begin with? Which could have helped other countries deal with it? Are you curious as to why a mid 30's doctor in China, who blew the whistle on this and was then threatened, somehow died from this? Will no...
Ryan I agree in some regards. I live in NYC and with the information that was given, I think it was handled OK. Do you think China shared information on this in a transparent way to begin with? Which could have helped other countries deal with it? Are you curious as to why a mid 30's doctor in China, who blew the whistle on this and was then threatened, somehow died from this? Will no one investigate his death? I am convinced the CCP murdered him.
Complete lockdowns are just foreign here. Again, you are trying to compare very different states with whole homogeneous countries that are the size of these same diverse states. It is not as easy Ryan to just lockdown everyone here and it is against every fiber of the American being. Europeans tend to be more aloof and subject to just stringent social controls at times. I know about the severity of the lockdowns from my friends and family in Greece and Netherlands. In Greece is was as you exactly described. Here in new York, it was a ghost town. People did take this seriously, from what I saw. No one was out and going to the grocery store required a lot. I don't know what else to say and we can go back and forth all day. But its the manner in which the attacks, not even criticism, vile attacks and insults, come in. I am actually happy a competent administration was not governing on the federal level here at this time, because then hoi polloi would have just turned on them, too.
CONSTANTINE, in response to your comment below, Italy and Spain weren't criticized because they took immediate action as soon as the virus became known. Strict lockdowns where people weren't even allowed to leave their homes for weeks at a time. Everything closed except for supermarkets and only limited visits to those were allowed. It wasn't even allowed to go outside for a walk or a run. Extreme and unpleasant for sure, but they got to...
CONSTANTINE, in response to your comment below, Italy and Spain weren't criticized because they took immediate action as soon as the virus became known. Strict lockdowns where people weren't even allowed to leave their homes for weeks at a time. Everything closed except for supermarkets and only limited visits to those were allowed. It wasn't even allowed to go outside for a walk or a run. Extreme and unpleasant for sure, but they got to a good place. It's absolutely fair to criticize the US by comparison. What we're witnessing a devastating tragedy that transcends any petty partisan politics and should be immune from it... but sadly rather than tackle the problem it's just finger pointing. The US Federal government and the states who reopened too early and continue to do nothing deserve every bit of blame pointed at them.
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In any regard, I disagree in regards to certain EU cities as opposed to NYC. No one really criticized Italy or Spain or others for how hard they were hit (we actually all expressed compassion for them, of which little has been shown by Europeans and hyper politicized populist Americans who are obsessed with insulting their homeland). But US cities get criticized. Again, did you see anyone attack Spain or Italy for all those high cases? Have you noticed the bile is focused on the US and UK? It is the usual targets. It’s we’re, I am used to it. It is something ingrained and you probably cannot see it.
Mortality rates and overall deaths are two different things
@sven 1. “How anyone can see ‘bias, conspiracy and disingenuity’ in these measures is beyond me.”
You just answered your own question when you admitted that the UK should not be on that list, but it is, and Sweden should and it’s not.
When you say “should be” referring to the UK and “most likely” to Sweden you’re confirming the bias.
2. What happened to deaths as a criteria? Now it’s “new...
@sven 1. “How anyone can see ‘bias, conspiracy and disingenuity’ in these measures is beyond me.”
You just answered your own question when you admitted that the UK should not be on that list, but it is, and Sweden should and it’s not.
When you say “should be” referring to the UK and “most likely” to Sweden you’re confirming the bias.
2. What happened to deaths as a criteria? Now it’s “new infections”? How you verify that? If a State/Country tests few people or people in areas with no infections, therefore keeping within the parameters, what’s the point?
I guess since the mortality rate/ratio is sooo low, let’s use the contamination numbers as a guideline.
3. Taking actions that kept the number of deaths at 10%(US) and 5%(UK) of the predictions, it’s pretty good, agree?
Unless you’re Trump or Boris, right?
Cuomo is praised despite the fact that NY leads the Country in deaths.
But he’s a D, not an R.
4. Finally, when it comes to clean water, car emissions, immigration, sanctuary cities, legalization etc, the California Government is all about defying, contesting and disregarding Federal laws, regulations, instructions and suggestions.
But when it comes to this pandemic, they are suddenly hopeless and at the mercy of the evil and incompetent Trump.
And somehow they push back against Trump’s suggestions to re-open places of worship...
Apparently their hands are tied only when it fits.
It’s obvious that any discussion nowadays is tainted.
The Party of Science is ignoring researches, studies and using fearmongering as a weapon of choice.
A while ago, Trump used the Central America Migrants Caravan to scare people.
Now Democrats are using this pandemic.
Both were real but waaaay overrated.
Different Parties, same tactics.
Hey Sven, I was including those unaccounted for in our country. The consensus is there are about that many here that aren't registered..
In any regard, I disagree in regards to certain EU cities as opposed to NYC. No one really criticized Italy or Spain or others for how hard they were hit (we actually all expressed compassion for them, of which little has been shown by Europeans and hyper politicized populist Americans who...
Hey Sven, I was including those unaccounted for in our country. The consensus is there are about that many here that aren't registered..
In any regard, I disagree in regards to certain EU cities as opposed to NYC. No one really criticized Italy or Spain or others for how hard they were hit (we actually all expressed compassion for them, of which little has been shown by Europeans and hyper politicized populist Americans who are obsessed with insulting their homeland). But US cities get criticized. Again, did you see anyone attack Spain or Italy for all those high cases? Have you noticed the bile is focused on the US and UK? It is the usual targets. It's we're, I am used to it. It is something ingrained and you probably cannot see it.
My feeling is that if you tested more in Europe you would find many more cases.
5 million out of 80 million, is 6.25% of the population (Germany's test rate).
28 million out of 330 million (I'll use your # here) is 8.4%. So the US is testing about 2.25% more than Germany and this will only go up.
My feeling is some of this is theater and it was leaked to get the US talking to the EU again about opening travel back up. I know a few states are pushing back heavily on pushing the July 1 date back for the US and other countries, which make up a lot of their market.
The product is effectively being killed with all this back and forth and date changes/ bureaucratic handling. You either open up and mitigate the risks, or you don't and cause another solid 20 percent depression on the whole continent's GDP this year.
Americans should be let in July 1, with extra health protocols in place for them to quell fears.
@Constantine:
1. Last time I checked it was 331 million and not 360 million citizens.
2. Yes, you do more testing now which definitely leads to more discovered infections, but first you didn't had that capacity when it really mattered. Second the daily number of infections is so far away from threshold that no matter how you look at it, the EU recommendation can only be a ban for now. Third it's slightly...
@Constantine:
1. Last time I checked it was 331 million and not 360 million citizens.
2. Yes, you do more testing now which definitely leads to more discovered infections, but first you didn't had that capacity when it really mattered. Second the daily number of infections is so far away from threshold that no matter how you look at it, the EU recommendation can only be a ban for now. Third it's slightly disingenuous to speak about five times more tests when your population is almost four times as big.
3. The current outbreaks in the South of the US would have been totally preventable, but as it seems to be now so politicized if you are willing to wear a mask or not, it might have been inevitable. It wasn't even a full lockdown that was needed there, but opening up bowling alleys, cinemas and casinos together with the refusal of a large percentage of the population to wear masks seems to be a recipe for disaster.
4. Yes, NYC is very densely populated and is a global travel hub, but so are the cities in the Pearl River delta, so are Paris and quite a lot of other metropolitan areas, but none of them had such a devastating outbreak as New York.
Of course I also hope that the travel between the US and Europe can open soon and I definitely don't watch gleefully as the numbers rise again in the US, but I think the "better or as good as the EU" threshold makes sense at the moment. Maybe in three weeks everything looks different and the numbers in the US are low enough
@sven also don't you think the US testing at 5 times more than the closest EU example Germany, has something to do with how many more cases are being reported here? If the EU increased testing up to close to the amount that we are doing in the states, don't you think there would be more cases reported from the EU?
Sorry, my first sentence was posted confusingly: I meant to say "putting 360 million people, from very different backgrounds into a complete lockdown for 3 months is impossible." (also, once you open back up there would just be a spike in cases anyway).
@Sven 360 million very different people from different backgrouns in to a complete lockdown for several months. The nature of the US is that it will/would and did spread. It is a global hub and that's why NYC got hit so hard; people infected, specifically Europeans, were spreading it here. The Chinese did so in LA and Seattle as well, according to our data. I agree Trump is not a qualified manager and that administration...
@Sven 360 million very different people from different backgrouns in to a complete lockdown for several months. The nature of the US is that it will/would and did spread. It is a global hub and that's why NYC got hit so hard; people infected, specifically Europeans, were spreading it here. The Chinese did so in LA and Seattle as well, according to our data. I agree Trump is not a qualified manager and that administration has been devoid of any competent leadership for awhile. But if their was som eone else in office, you would have similar issues of people not listening or even revolting. Democratic free societies, at this scale, are very complex. Finger pointing and blaming can go on ad nauseum forever. I feel like a lot of bile spewed at the US, as if we are getting what we deserve, is ignorant and barbaric. I'm sure these people have hated the US for long before the current administration. Any chance to attack and "punish" and they will. I have see gleeful low class euros rejoice at this, with no awareness that cutting the US and Eur economies off from each other is a lose lose for everyone. And whether they understand this or not, they will feel it very badly in the coming months in 2021. I wish everyone would simply wear a mask in indoor spaces and practice social distancing WHILE getting the economies going again and living our lives, within reason. I hope the US and the EU open up travel between each other asap as this is just hurting everyone and from what I have read from reliable health experts, travel bans do little in curbing spread; it is our actions when traveling like wearing masks that do! lastly, this idea about sneaking in to EU countries via different routes is ridiculous. Who would want to risk their safety and potentially get in trouble for that? No sober adult needs to play those games.
@LC: Addendum: Seems the UK now almost meets this measure and thus should be allowed in.
@LC: First, I'm pretty sure most here will agree that Trump and Johnson could have done much better (especially compared to a lot of other nations), but both did something and so even there the worst predictions wouldn't come true. Especially the spikes now in AZ, TX, FL and CA would have been totally preventable.
Second, it's a clear measurement by the EU whose travel is still restricted. 20 new infections per 100,000 citizens...
@LC: First, I'm pretty sure most here will agree that Trump and Johnson could have done much better (especially compared to a lot of other nations), but both did something and so even there the worst predictions wouldn't come true. Especially the spikes now in AZ, TX, FL and CA would have been totally preventable.
Second, it's a clear measurement by the EU whose travel is still restricted. 20 new infections per 100,000 citizens per 14 days. Every country that doesn't meet that criteria will be excluded. For the US for example that would mean a maximum of 4,700 new infections per day during a two week period and the US is currently a far cry from that (as is Sweden btw which most likely will also be excluded)
How anyone can see "bias, conspiracy and disingenuity" in these measures is beyond me.
@ Sven -- Because some people seem to either not understand "per capita" as a metric, or think it's an unfair place to set the bar regardless.
@Sven It seems that the goal here is to assume that Trump(and Boris BTW) is doing a bad job. Early predictions by MSM said that the number of deaths in the USA and UK would be around 1 million in each country. With the worst behind us and restrictions being lifted there are around 43K deaths in UK and 110K in the US. Or Trump and Boris did a great job or the predictions were...
@Sven It seems that the goal here is to assume that Trump(and Boris BTW) is doing a bad job. Early predictions by MSM said that the number of deaths in the USA and UK would be around 1 million in each country. With the worst behind us and restrictions being lifted there are around 43K deaths in UK and 110K in the US. Or Trump and Boris did a great job or the predictions were wrong (conspiracy?). Choose one. Food for thought: China’s neighbors like India and Japan have 4K and 945 deaths respectively. Kinda odd, right? Just one more: the EU cherry picked USA, Russia and Brazil(whose presidents are always demonized by European MSM and leaders), banning their citizens from entering. Despite the fact that are countries with higher mortality ratios. This fact alone is a prove of bias, conspiracy and disingenuity.
@Bill
Too many places in The US are quickly becoming hotspots and I imagine many Americans would attempt to lie or act confused with a certain state rule. Your idea sounds too messy and it would make more sense to just not allow citizens who are coming from The US.
I would hire Robert as my fashion coach, but certainly not as my travel coach.
@LC: There isn't a single "fact" in Thomas comment (that he probably copy and pastes to any reasonable popular blog entry about travel restrictions) that isn't skewed or misrepresented. CoViD19 isn't a conspiracy of the mainstream media and the threat wasn't just imagined.
@qofmiwok
What matters is not the history, but the present and the future. The European countries on the list (except Sweden, I wouldn't let them in either) now are down about 95% from their peak, and are maintaining that level. The US is not that far below it's peak, and it's rising.
If we could get down to new cases at 5% of our peak, we'd have a chance to get on the list of countries that would be admitted.
Is there any chance the EU will limit to the ban to just those states that don't control the virus? I'm not sure how allowing travel from certain states but not others when going to europe would really work, so it seems like a pipe dream.
Passport stamps aren't the most reliable way to determine where someone has been. Some countries don't have exit immigration formalities (US and UK come to mind) and also if you use an automated passport control kiosk, you won't get a stamp at all. But I'm going to assume automated passport control has been suspended in most places for now.
@Robert Schrader. I love how you are sugar coating this as some sort of potential loophole in travel. Get over it. Maybe 2% of all American passport holders will be able to legitimatly access the EU if this "ban" happens.
Really, You must be the scariest "Travel Coach" ever. "Bob, Martha, it's ok...go to Canada first, get a stamp, spend the night, and lie to immigration in Austria that you have been in Canada...
@Robert Schrader. I love how you are sugar coating this as some sort of potential loophole in travel. Get over it. Maybe 2% of all American passport holders will be able to legitimatly access the EU if this "ban" happens.
Really, You must be the scariest "Travel Coach" ever. "Bob, Martha, it's ok...go to Canada first, get a stamp, spend the night, and lie to immigration in Austria that you have been in Canada for weeks...trust me, it will all work out!"
I am starting to think that you are like the travel agent Carol Beer from the British comedy show.
@Constantine, that's a terrible way. Takes a lot of time to flip through everyone's passport reading dates in smudged ink, a lot of countries I visit don't bother stamping, dual citizens will only present one passport thereby leaving out stamps in the other.
And if an American tries to enter the EU and points to a New Zealand stamp from February, will he be let in if he claims he was there the whole time?...
@Constantine, that's a terrible way. Takes a lot of time to flip through everyone's passport reading dates in smudged ink, a lot of countries I visit don't bother stamping, dual citizens will only present one passport thereby leaving out stamps in the other.
And if an American tries to enter the EU and points to a New Zealand stamp from February, will he be let in if he claims he was there the whole time? The US would never stamp his US passport when he re-entered the US in March.
@Sven, @Thomas “incoherent ramblings” AKA data, stats and facts, right?
@Thomas Hear, hear
@joe chivas they look at your passport stamps.
@Robert Schrader, how will passport control definitively determine one's travel history in the last 14 days?
Btw, love your shirt! Where can I get one??
@js all the authorities at the border need is your passport it has stamps if all countries you’ve been to date arrived and left so to say what you said just doesn’t make sense
@Sung The ban is based on travel history, not on passport or nationality. The US media (and Lucky, I’m sad to say) are gleeful to report anything negative about America and Americans, but they are mistaken in this case.
@Ed Why NY’s off that list??
@qofmiwok: Belgium is an outlier as they really reported every possible case as CoViD19 death even if there wasn't a tested Corona-virus infection, for all the other ones (and Belgium as well) the peak has long passed, while the US is still on a plateau (or with even rising numbers of infections).
The important data to look at are new infections during a one, two or three week period and these stats don't look...
@qofmiwok: Belgium is an outlier as they really reported every possible case as CoViD19 death even if there wasn't a tested Corona-virus infection, for all the other ones (and Belgium as well) the peak has long passed, while the US is still on a plateau (or with even rising numbers of infections).
The important data to look at are new infections during a one, two or three week period and these stats don't look too well for the US. I'm sure as soon as soon as the number of new infections go down, the EU will revise its policies (and I hope they will open strictly because of scientific measurements and not because the US tried to pressure them to reopen)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Confirmed deaths per million from highest to lowest:
Belgium 849 UK 641 Italy 573 Sweden 503 France 442 USA 368
So 5 European countries are ahead of us, and we're the problem?
Actually given the disparities in how Covid deaths are reported, there may be no statistical significance between any of these countries. Seems like there's more going on. Maybe they just want to open slowly and one way to...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Confirmed deaths per million from highest to lowest:
Belgium 849 UK 641 Italy 573 Sweden 503 France 442 USA 368
So 5 European countries are ahead of us, and we're the problem?
Actually given the disparities in how Covid deaths are reported, there may be no statistical significance between any of these countries. Seems like there's more going on. Maybe they just want to open slowly and one way to do that is to limit the country with the most number of potential tourists.
Some encouraging news: Hope this materializes soon: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-travel-usa/pompeo-says-us-working-with-europe-on-how-to-reopen-travel-safely-idUSKBN23V29T
I'm surprised New York hasn't seen another big spike yet given they haven't been that great with social distancing for a while now. I wonder if it's because a far greater % of people recovered and have resistance than we think? There was an article I read recently about how the virus was probably raging like mad in March but we had almost no testing then, so we likely missed an enormous number of cases....
I'm surprised New York hasn't seen another big spike yet given they haven't been that great with social distancing for a while now. I wonder if it's because a far greater % of people recovered and have resistance than we think? There was an article I read recently about how the virus was probably raging like mad in March but we had almost no testing then, so we likely missed an enormous number of cases. We were only testing the sickest and most vulnerable people, which means we were testing a very small percentage of those who were likely exposed.
With any luck, the virus will rage in new places similar to how it did in New York and then it'll calm down for good. But it's super important to wear a mask and practice social distancing. I'm less on board with staying home all the time unless the state is exploding with cases, in which case there is not much choice IMO.
The numbers aren’t much lower in the EU counties like Hungary if the my suspect you at have it they send you home don’t test assume you have it and say come back to the hospital if your health turns really bad. They are simply not testing as much.
Thomas is a pretty good example that Europe has it's fair share of Covidiots as well. None of his incoherent ramblings make any sense.
While I agree that banning people based on where they've been would seem the logical thing to do, I think it simply doesn't work in practice.
The authorities that control the borders don't much else to work with except passports. If they were to set up a system that requires presenting additional documents, it means a lot of bureaucracy and while it could work, it's too slow to set. Currently regulators are trying to move...
While I agree that banning people based on where they've been would seem the logical thing to do, I think it simply doesn't work in practice.
The authorities that control the borders don't much else to work with except passports. If they were to set up a system that requires presenting additional documents, it means a lot of bureaucracy and while it could work, it's too slow to set. Currently regulators are trying to move as fast as possible in order to save at least part of this summer's tourist season.
@Constantine: Of course you are right about the UK. Not banning them either is rather a political decision. It's pretty clear that they don't have it as good under control as other European nations. Also I would agree that Europe shouldn't have problems letting in US tourists from outside the CoViD 19 hotspots, but as it's basically impossible for EU immigration to find out where in the US a person has spend the last three...
@Constantine: Of course you are right about the UK. Not banning them either is rather a political decision. It's pretty clear that they don't have it as good under control as other European nations. Also I would agree that Europe shouldn't have problems letting in US tourists from outside the CoViD 19 hotspots, but as it's basically impossible for EU immigration to find out where in the US a person has spend the last three weeks, a temporary ban might be the way to go.
I'm not sure if the deaths per capita numbers are really what you want to look at. Most of these deaths in Europe happened quite a while ago and have no significance regarding the current infection levels. (And btw the US has more deaths per capita than the Netherlands ...but admittedly less than Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Sweden and the UK)
It is true that now the US tests more than any other nation, but it took them much longer to reach that level (especially in some states outside of the initial hotspots on the East coast), so we can assume that in the initial stages of the pandemic the deaths were under counted.
Anyway I hope that the numbers of new infections in the US will decrease soon, so the EU can safely recommend to let American tourist in.
Hello all, and what about peoples that planned to marry (mexican / french) ? 4 months without my dear beloved is long, i can still wait and we'll do of course... I can understand all, tourism is may be a little risky, but wow it's allowed for people to go back for familial reasons and marriage is still viewed as tourism from ambassadies. I felt speaking to bots... sad :(
@ Tom I: Aside from the fact that Belgium probably over counted the COVID 19 deaths, your numbers basically say nothing about the present situation. It's of course more important to look at the new infections in the last seven or fourteen days to see if a country has it mostly under control or not. While in most parts of Europe the numbers get lower, in the US we only see it plateauing.
(and btw your deaths per capita ratio doesn't look that good either)
@Sven, agree the numbers are numbers. By that, the US is testing about 5 times more than Germany, which has tested the most people to date in the bloc @ 5 million. The US is at about 29 million tests to date (source: statista). I don't think smaller southern countries like Greece or Portugal will have their revenue made up by Europeans, but I hope that is the case if they ban Americans. By your...
@Sven, agree the numbers are numbers. By that, the US is testing about 5 times more than Germany, which has tested the most people to date in the bloc @ 5 million. The US is at about 29 million tests to date (source: statista). I don't think smaller southern countries like Greece or Portugal will have their revenue made up by Europeans, but I hope that is the case if they ban Americans. By your logic then, with American having less per capita death rates than the UK, but the UK being set to be allowed to travel in the EU, is this really by the numbers? Or is it something else political? This idea that a boogieman wave of US trourists will infect Europe is not based in science, as if you look at per capita numbers of deaths (which I am told you need to look at) the US is behind not only the UK but other EU countries like Netherlands and France. Also, whatever happened to going by the EASA list? NYC region is very far from say Florida, where a spike is currently occurring. I believe if the US had better relations with the EU right now, there would not be this threat of banning a whole nation the size of two Europe's from entering. The reality is that the US does not care if they are banned because this means tourist dollars spent here. This negatively affects those of us without dual citizenship who have business, personal and familial matters to attend to this summer in an EU country. By the numbers, Greece specifically, Americans tend to go to expensive tourist areas like Santorini and even with a 10 day stay (3 in Athens 7 in Santorini) that brings more revenue than 14 days from a Dutch family in Lefkada for instance. Your idea about mandatory testing would be welcome by the 1.5 million Greek Americans who want to see their families this summer as well, and who would be staying in private residences. It is so complex that I do hope some EU states go their own way, within reason, within facing retaliation from their fellow EU nations.. That's why Portugal, Italy and Greece aligning on allowing US tourists in this summer would make it harder for any other country to impose a border restriction on them in retaliation. Or, a country like Greece could make it clear Americans are not to travel through the Schengen once they enter and enforce border controls/checks.
@ Mitch
No one knows everyone is simply assuming as the EU parliament hasn’t even decided what will happen then individual countries can accept or no. You can go home to your EU country but you most likely will be put on the 14 day quarantine.
@ constantine: Numbers are numbers and anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. I already admitted that the average US traveller will spend more per day, but it is equally true that the stays of European travellers are longer on average. So who will leave more money in the country, the dutch family who stays for 20 days or the US couple who stays 5 days?
Even considered the average US tourist will spend double the...
@ constantine: Numbers are numbers and anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. I already admitted that the average US traveller will spend more per day, but it is equally true that the stays of European travellers are longer on average. So who will leave more money in the country, the dutch family who stays for 20 days or the US couple who stays 5 days?
Even considered the average US tourist will spend double the amount the impact on the economy is minuscule (0.6%) and will probably more than made up by European travellers who will prefer to stay in Europe this Summer.
What will have a real negative impact though, is having a second wave imported through US-Americans. Unfortunately there is no possibility to separate people who follow health protocols seriously from those who don't, so I guess banning all visitors from the US is the safe way. I would have no problem though, if US tourist (and Brazilians and Russians etc.) have to undergo a mandatory test upon entering while being quarantined until the results are ready.
Ban based on citizenship is racist/nationalist. If its medical issue, they should ban any person that has been in USA/Russia/Brazil recently prior to flying to EU. When US banned people flying in from EU was not based on citizenship, but rather their 14 day stay in EU. People called racist, although it medically makes more sense than ban based on citizenship. But that is ok, as dual citizen, I can still get into EU if I want to. /facepalm.
I think it is worthwhile to look at the stats a little closer to see how impactful COVID 19 is by region. I tend to follow the mortality rate. If charting the confirmed case fatality rate the number two country is Belgium at 15.96%. Kind of ironic when seeing a ban from the EU. France is number one at 18.43%, Italy number three at 14.52%, and the UK is number 4 at 14.02%. The US...
I think it is worthwhile to look at the stats a little closer to see how impactful COVID 19 is by region. I tend to follow the mortality rate. If charting the confirmed case fatality rate the number two country is Belgium at 15.96%. Kind of ironic when seeing a ban from the EU. France is number one at 18.43%, Italy number three at 14.52%, and the UK is number 4 at 14.02%. The US is number 32 at 5.09%. I understand that there are a lot of people that hate this administration and therefore see nothing positive about this country. However the EU has done a miserable job of managing Covid-19 within their borders. Finally if you were to take out New York and New Jersey that completely failed at containing the virus the US would be a world leader in managing the virus.
@ Mitch, no you cannot be denied entrance into a country you have residence in, or temporary visa. What they may make you do, based on their current restrictions, is quarantine upon arrival if you are entering home from a restricted region. You can easily find this information on any particular country's embassy site. Also, nice Caddyshack reference.
I see several people in the comments suggesting the restrictions will be based on residence or country of departure rather than citizenship. Would an EU citizen ever be denied entry into the EU because they live in, and are traveling from, the US? I am in this situation and it seems odd to me that I would be denied entry into my home country just because of where I'm currently living or coming from.
@Sven, your numbers are misleading and you conveniently try to play down the impact of American tourists in the EU. I am Greek American with relatives and friends in the tourism industry not just in Greece, but in other EU states. It is a well known fact that Americans spend more, leave tips, book higher end accommodations, and stimulate the EU economy way more than Europeans. This is coming from Europeans in the sector. The...
@Sven, your numbers are misleading and you conveniently try to play down the impact of American tourists in the EU. I am Greek American with relatives and friends in the tourism industry not just in Greece, but in other EU states. It is a well known fact that Americans spend more, leave tips, book higher end accommodations, and stimulate the EU economy way more than Europeans. This is coming from Europeans in the sector. The Greeks particularly love when ferries come in with disembarking Americans as they know know they will be spending and actually leaving money on the tables at tavernas and cafes, unlike their EU friends. Last year the first 10 months of 2019 by the way, we have Americans in Greece at about 2 million. Greeks VERY much want Americans in this summer. They lament cheap Germans and complaining Italians. They want their Brits too as they come in numbers, especially to the Ionian islands. The economic impact of blocking Americans (which is just political theater at the moment, and no we are not all infected and yes many of us have and do take these health protocols seriously) will prolong and increase the damage of recessions particularly in southern EU nations like Italy, Portugal and Greece. German and and France will feel the impact less. I hope the Greeks Italians and Portugese are smart and agree together to let US citizens in so that other countries that would then shut their borders in retaliation won't be able to do so so easily.
@ Abe: No European country depends on US tourism income. The number of travellers from the US is dwarfed in every country by inter-European travel.
Let's take for example Greece, a country in which tourism makes up quite a large percentage of the GDP. They had 33 million visitors in 2018 with only 1.2 million of them coming from the US. So that's just 3% of travellers. Given that tourism makes up 10% of...
@ Abe: No European country depends on US tourism income. The number of travellers from the US is dwarfed in every country by inter-European travel.
Let's take for example Greece, a country in which tourism makes up quite a large percentage of the GDP. They had 33 million visitors in 2018 with only 1.2 million of them coming from the US. So that's just 3% of travellers. Given that tourism makes up 10% of the Greek GDP, the money coming from US travellers would make only 0.3% of the GDP (which most likely will be countered this year by a greater number of travellers from Europe as most of the world is still inaccessible at the moment). Granted the average US traveller will probably spend more per day than other tourists, but it's probably also true, that their stays are usually much shorter as people employed in the US tend to have shorter holidays.
The comments in this blog over the past few weeks have made it clear that its incorrect to say Trump supporters wouldn't travel anyway. And many comments say nothing about Trump but express opposition to basic public health requirements (masks, distancing). Anyone from overseas reading this blog will get the impression that many Americans very interested in travel are not willing to be inconvenienced or follow rules/recommendations because 'freedom'. So of course we should be...
The comments in this blog over the past few weeks have made it clear that its incorrect to say Trump supporters wouldn't travel anyway. And many comments say nothing about Trump but express opposition to basic public health requirements (masks, distancing). Anyone from overseas reading this blog will get the impression that many Americans very interested in travel are not willing to be inconvenienced or follow rules/recommendations because 'freedom'. So of course we should be banned while the numbers are so high here.
Do you know if they’re allowing students with Student Visas into the E.U.? I have a student visa for Spain but I came back to the US in March. I’m hoping to return in the next couple weeks.
Sorry last was meant for @ryan....
@Jason I stand corrected you are a traveler, all I’m saying is every article yesterday was a reprint or a rewrite of The NY Times article there’s another out by CNN today which goes into more depth saying everything is all over the place and the EU is only making recommendations and each country will make their own decisions and as we know in Europe they do not march...
Sorry last was meant for @ryan....
@Jason I stand corrected you are a traveler, all I’m saying is every article yesterday was a reprint or a rewrite of The NY Times article there’s another out by CNN today which goes into more depth saying everything is all over the place and the EU is only making recommendations and each country will make their own decisions and as we know in Europe they do not march to the same beat nationwide let alone the whole bloc. What I am saying is closed borders don’t work per all epidemiologist but lockdowns do and the world cannot stay on lockdown.
And just as numbers were beginning to stabilize thousands of idiots (for not following common sense covid recommendations) took to the streets. LA is already blaming the rise on the protesters. I am not questioning their right to be angry but I do question their total disregard for the rest of us especially their elderly family members who may now pay the ultimate price.
@jason most western have opened to internal Travel to other schengen countries not all, and again Western as you stated the EU is much larger than western EU countries and to cherry pick those few to prove whatever point it is your trying to prove doesn’t get the job done. Many places your driving to in The EU and some schengen places still aren’t totally open. I say that as I too live in a European but a Central European country closer to the East.
@JJ
The EU "travel ban" will indeed be reviewed on an ongoing basis. I also made an assumption that the EU will keep US tourists out of the block for the remainder of the year. I don't have any data to backup that belief but I think it's reasonable. I could very much be wrong.
As for international travel, you could not be more wrong. The impact on international travel is felt. I'm an American...
@JJ
The EU "travel ban" will indeed be reviewed on an ongoing basis. I also made an assumption that the EU will keep US tourists out of the block for the remainder of the year. I don't have any data to backup that belief but I think it's reasonable. I could very much be wrong.
As for international travel, you could not be more wrong. The impact on international travel is felt. I'm an American that lives in Europe and travels to the US, within the EU, and to Asia VERY frequently for work and pleasure. I've cancelled trips to Asia, Morocco and even Disney (FL) this year. More cancellations are to come this year. I stand by statement that my fellow Americans shouldn't this personal and should enjoy some extra domestic travel for the remainder of 2020. My best to you on your travels.
@JJ It's still obviously a question of whether passports will be blocked or travel history, especially as it relates to flying. I can tell you that most countries in Western Europe already have reopened their borders and it's easily possible (same as pre-COVID) to drive throughout. So, my American passport is totally irrelevant as I'm already in Schengen and going amongst countries with open borders. No one is sitting at the borders and rejecting only...
@JJ It's still obviously a question of whether passports will be blocked or travel history, especially as it relates to flying. I can tell you that most countries in Western Europe already have reopened their borders and it's easily possible (same as pre-COVID) to drive throughout. So, my American passport is totally irrelevant as I'm already in Schengen and going amongst countries with open borders. No one is sitting at the borders and rejecting only certain cars due to the passports of their occupants. It's also possible to fly intra-Schengen with no border controls, although this might be difficult as of 7/1 if certain countries don't follow the EU advice. Now, if I was flying into Schengen from outside, then yes I would expect a challenge and would likely need to show my residence permit as proof that I live within Schengen.
@jason
Actually this will
Be reviewed every two weeks, sounds like you could care less as most likely you don’t travel much international anyway.
I think many of my fellow Americans are taking this personally. (Look at these comments and you can see the raw emotion). The EU is likely to ban US tourists for the remainder of the year. It's not personal and it's just based on the EU's risk assessment of US tourists. The EU has every right to decide immigration/visa rules as does the US. I don't think any of us want the EU to decide...
I think many of my fellow Americans are taking this personally. (Look at these comments and you can see the raw emotion). The EU is likely to ban US tourists for the remainder of the year. It's not personal and it's just based on the EU's risk assessment of US tourists. The EU has every right to decide immigration/visa rules as does the US. I don't think any of us want the EU to decide how the US should handle immigration/visa rules. Let's not make this more than it is. Countries will open up sometime in Q1 of next year. We can all start jumping on long-haul flights to anywhere just like normal. Until then, this is an opportunity to do some domestic travel that you might have on your travel bucket list. Have a good summer!
Lucky: Will transit pax at for ex CDG connecting to next outgoing flight to country outside Europe be banned? They won’t be going thru customs. I haven’t seen this question asked or answered anywhere.
@experienced traveler what you’re saying makes no sense as all those countries are in the schengen, and only some countries currently are allowing Americans if you’re in Austria you cannot get into Hungary and vice versa. The articles are saying Americans can’t enter the EU period, it none specify where your coming from but Americans period. Though EU parliament has yet to specify if it’s based on travel history or passport. However at this point...
@experienced traveler what you’re saying makes no sense as all those countries are in the schengen, and only some countries currently are allowing Americans if you’re in Austria you cannot get into Hungary and vice versa. The articles are saying Americans can’t enter the EU period, it none specify where your coming from but Americans period. Though EU parliament has yet to specify if it’s based on travel history or passport. However at this point it doesn’t matter as epidemiologist all across the board are saying travel bans are pointless as they don’t work but politicians are being politicians playing to whatever their particular constituency wants to hear.
@Nick 100% agree
This will not work out though. Some countries will want to accept US tourist and other will not. Not going to work out. I'm more interested when I can go back to US again ;-)
Abe - what a condescending comment ''how America won the WW2 '' . Do your research, EU does not rely on US for tourists . Yes lots come , but in recent years it is Chinese ( PRC) and Russians that bring the tourist dollar . Americans were in the 1980s
Whatever you are reading ,you have the wrong message . EU are not banning Americans , they are banning people coming from America ( who mostly happen to be Americans .) An American working in Germany is quite free to travel to Austria or Switzerland , and he can do that now . The media have twisted the message as they often do.
I have just flown on Swiss Air from Hong Kong to...
Whatever you are reading ,you have the wrong message . EU are not banning Americans , they are banning people coming from America ( who mostly happen to be Americans .) An American working in Germany is quite free to travel to Austria or Switzerland , and he can do that now . The media have twisted the message as they often do.
I have just flown on Swiss Air from Hong Kong to Zurich to Larnaca. I have a British passport and the paperwork was all about where I had been in last 14 days , which was only Hong Kong . No one assumed that because I have a British passport that I had come from Britain.
I had to complete a Cyprus (EU) Government Flight Pass online and give details of where I had been and why I was going to Cyprus ( I am a resident ) . I had to show this before boarding in Hong Kong . On the flight I had to complete a Swiss Government trace form with details of an address in Cyprus , email , mobile , flight number and seat number ……….so I can be traced by Swiss authorities if someone on the flight is positive . In Zurich ,I was in transit , but because I came from Hong Kong (China ) ,I could not exit the airport into the country, even if I had wanted to .
At boarding in Zurich ,I was again asked to show Cyprus Flightpass .
At Larnaca ,I had to have a Covid test ( I paid Euro 60 ) and quarantine in a government appointed hotel ( I had to pay Euro 90 ) for 24 hours . I tested negative and was allowed to go home . All this to get home ( where I have been a permanent resident for 21 years ) after being stranded in Thailand and Hong Kong for 5 months .
It seems to many in EU that Americans want their freedom and do not like restrictions . In EU governments locked down cities , people stayed inside homes for 3 months and wore masks and did social distancing to supermarket once a week. And now we are opening up.
Much of America has ignored the government and not stayed at home , not worn masks and not done social distancing . It seems protests of various types are more important in America that stopping the virus spreading . Well, now you see the results .
Do not expect EU to welcome Americans for a while , the risk of spreading the virus from America is too great .
And American states such as Florida and Texas are pushing forward hard regardless experiencing spikes in cases especially as the death toll is so low
@ryan actually 1/3 of the EU formula in allowing other nationals into the EU is reciprocity. Banning entire nations doesn’t really make sense as you can be from a company on the allowed list but be coming from Russia, or the US and be allowed to enter or be an American and hasnt actually stepped foot in American in years. But because you Hold an American passport no go. I too live in Europe and...
@ryan actually 1/3 of the EU formula in allowing other nationals into the EU is reciprocity. Banning entire nations doesn’t really make sense as you can be from a company on the allowed list but be coming from Russia, or the US and be allowed to enter or be an American and hasnt actually stepped foot in American in years. But because you Hold an American passport no go. I too live in Europe and even for me banning people based on their passport as opposed to their travel history makes zero sense what so ever. I have a lot if digital nomad friends and this will affect them even though they’ve been no where near the US.
Nice sensationalist headline, but the reality is that the EU is not banning only 'Americans'. And this isn't a tit-for-tat to get back at the US for banning other countries. It's a simple mathematical formula: countries with an infection rate similar to the EU are welcome, those with higher infection rates (including Russia, Brazil, and the US) won't be welcome until they bring their rate down to EU levels.
I'm an American living in Europe...
Nice sensationalist headline, but the reality is that the EU is not banning only 'Americans'. And this isn't a tit-for-tat to get back at the US for banning other countries. It's a simple mathematical formula: countries with an infection rate similar to the EU are welcome, those with higher infection rates (including Russia, Brazil, and the US) won't be welcome until they bring their rate down to EU levels.
I'm an American living in Europe and I want Americans to be able to travel here too, as I've seen several friends and family members have to cancel visits this Spring. But it's too risky until the people in the US decide to take this seriously and bring down the infection rate; that's all it will take. Hopefully people in the US will listen and take the forthcoming second lockdown seriously this time (i.e., stop flying from epicenter to epicenter just to travel and post on a blog what it's like...).
Because the US has protected Europe since the end of WWII, we have multiple military bases there so you don’t speak Russian (your welcome) and because many European countries depend on US tourism income and will be hit hard this year.
I expect some EU countries will go renegade (like Greece) and open to Americans, no matter what.
Quite frankly, why do so many here expect that the EU opens up to visitors from the US, while EU residents are "indefinitely" banned from entering the US ... (the word "indefinitely" is used by US authorities).
I think it’s really sad how a lot of people describe Trump supporters as stupid, fat rednecks. It really doesn’t help the divide that we’re having in America right now. We should be focusing on uniting each other, not dividing each other regardless of your political beliefs.
@Robert Schrader...This, coming from the man who politicizes everything with nothing more than a background of being a "travel coach." Kettle black?
"Sorry to say but the virus is still at full swing in the US."
So what? Go look up what most top epidemiologists say about travel bans. They say they should not be implemented because they are ineffective and can do harm to society.
The other thing you need to know is that governments sometimes say things that are not true and sometimes they know they are not true! It's time to for everyone...
"Sorry to say but the virus is still at full swing in the US."
So what? Go look up what most top epidemiologists say about travel bans. They say they should not be implemented because they are ineffective and can do harm to society.
The other thing you need to know is that governments sometimes say things that are not true and sometimes they know they are not true! It's time to for everyone to vote for themselves or rather better yet "take it to the streets" and finally just live your life without anyone messing with it.
If you look at the new infection rates in Europe, things are pretty much in control finally. The virus is not gone yet, there's the UK, and Germany found a few hot spots, even Sweden is getting slowly under control.
US with 36000 new cases yesterday is not under control. The old hot spot NY is much better now but look at CA, TX, AZ, FL, GA or LA. Sorry to say but the virus is still at full swing in the US.
I’m quite sure the EU will have in place all the necessary precautions for not allowing entry to ANYONE who’s been in the US for the past 14 day’s and who are also dual citizens of that country
@guflyer Precisely. Covid restrictions are based on where someone has spent the past 14 days. Nothing more, nothing less! It's a shame that so many people, Lucky included, want to politicize this.
Who cares which countries want you and which do not, unless we are talking about catching up with families? The world is large, and this is your chance to see places that you wouldn't normally.
The fact that masks are not federally mandated onboard a commercial aircraft is obsurd. Democracy really exposes its weaknesses in times of crisis where we need a central authority to override the states and take the lead.
@Lucky
1) I doubt this is really a ban on American "citizens," but instead a ban on people coming to the European Union from the United States. That said, U.S. passport holders traveling from Australia to the EU in July could certainly face problems at immigration, if they get a cranky officer.
2) As an EU citizen (dual U.S.-EU), I should have the right to return to the EU regardless of where I currently...
@Lucky
1) I doubt this is really a ban on American "citizens," but instead a ban on people coming to the European Union from the United States. That said, U.S. passport holders traveling from Australia to the EU in July could certainly face problems at immigration, if they get a cranky officer.
2) As an EU citizen (dual U.S.-EU), I should have the right to return to the EU regardless of where I currently live -- I currently live in the U.S. -- and that's what this new guidance says: the ban will not apply to EU citizens traveling to the EU for non-essential travel, even if they don't intend to stay in the EU (i.e. a short visit to see friends or business or tourism).
I just realized that after reading these comments that just because someone travels and reads a travel blog, it does not mean they are educated.
@Robert Schrader Will the ban be based upon residency, or upon where one has been during the last fourteen days (or specified period)? Would one be able to avoid the ban if one spent fourteen preceding days in another country that is not banned by Europe? I really appreciate your comments.
Funny how Trumpettes blame the democracy’s and Obama for everything but fail to see how their Dear Leader screwed and keeps screwing everything up. @WR2
At this time who would want to travel to the US, heard on the news some Americans drove cross the Canadian border by lying to the border agents got fined $1200 in Alberta. Go figure... Americans are not welcomed any where I guess.
LOL, Lucky has gone horribly off kilter political. Great way to kill a brand!
If you really think the southern European countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece are going to continue to deny themselves access to tourist dollars you're totally fooling yourself. They will most certainly not follow EU "recommendation". Especially when the powers that be can see how the positive case numbers here are being fiddled with.
Time to take a breath everyone. Close the thread, its nothing but politics now.
The USA has the largest lepper colony in the world now, and growing daily.
Who do you think wants to invite us for dinner at their home?
@Abe
In NY they are strictly forbidden from asking a person who tests positive if they have attended a protest or riot.
Think I'm kidding? Look it up. I'd link the story here but OMT doesn't like hyperlinks.
Does this mean the United States will bring home all their military from Europe?
Funny how all the leftists blame everything on Trump, and republicans, even coronavirus. You blame people gathering in Florida and the Trump rally, but you fully support the BLM protests that have been hijacted by anarchists. Double standard just a tad? I guess if republican gatherings would also loot and pillage, they might get your approval.
Also, remember in the beginning, Trump early on shut down flights from China and Europe. At the time,...
Funny how all the leftists blame everything on Trump, and republicans, even coronavirus. You blame people gathering in Florida and the Trump rally, but you fully support the BLM protests that have been hijacted by anarchists. Double standard just a tad? I guess if republican gatherings would also loot and pillage, they might get your approval.
Also, remember in the beginning, Trump early on shut down flights from China and Europe. At the time, the left said it was an overreaction. Now you have the gall to blame him? Blame China, they caused this, covered it up, lied, and still lie about it. I guess you can't bring yourself to blame your fellow red komrades though. Instead, you leftists are so full of TDS that you instinctively blame anything and everything bad on Trump. What exactly do you think he was supposed to do? Impose martial law? Because that's the only way to enforce a lockdown federally. I'm sure the dems would have been fully onboard with that.
@ WR2 -- I mean, can't speak for everyone, but we criticized the China flight ban for being late, poorly considered, and likely to be ineffective at controlling the spread of the virus given both how it was structured, and that the virus was already present in the US and Europe.
Tens of thousands of words have been written about what the US Federal Government could and should have done. Maybe try Google?
@penn Adam ask Merkel, who runs the EU and is literally making decisions for "soverign" countries by holding threats over their heads like re-closing borders if they don't obey the EC's "advice". They can have plenty of refugees this summer come and stimulate their G knows what, but it won't be the economy.
All this aside, if someone already has a ticket to go to UK/Europe later this year, will they be able to cancel and get a refund? A friend has a Delta ticket for travel on the Virgin code share.
Just curious, will the EU continue entry and resettlement for refugees through their open borders while the travel from US is banned?
Europe will pay for this. If that’s how it’s going to be. Wait until President Trump is re elected.
Make America proud again
Make America strong again.
@Tiffany, are you joking? BLM marches has only one confirmed case, but church gatherings are the problem?
I guess BLM protestors must have magical pixie dust.
@ Abe -- Nope, that is accurate in my county. Massachusetts has tested ~17k people who attended protests there, and the infection rate is ~2.7%.
To be clear, my reference to this "church" gathering is that I personally feel it's sacrilegious and inappropriate to hold a political rally in a church (very much only my opinion), and a likely violation of the tax code. Nothing against church gatherings as a concept. But since it...
@ Abe -- Nope, that is accurate in my county. Massachusetts has tested ~17k people who attended protests there, and the infection rate is ~2.7%.
To be clear, my reference to this "church" gathering is that I personally feel it's sacrilegious and inappropriate to hold a political rally in a church (very much only my opinion), and a likely violation of the tax code. Nothing against church gatherings as a concept. But since it seems like in general, outdoor events (regardless of the purpose of the event) have a lower risk of infection than being inside an air conditioned building, the choice of many religious congregations to hold outdoor services this summer seems like a sensible precaution.
Looking at the Trumpsters' behaviours I grt that Biden is probably going to win the next election.
Looking at the demographics of Trumpsters - mostly old, not-so-healthy, obese people (in Trumpsters' words, "the weak with co-morbities who would be dead anyway") without funds to access any healthcare in the US acting wrecklessly during pandemic - surely the COVID will disproportionately affects Trumpsters than other groups...
@Tiffany-Also the double standard of a mayor like De Blasio telling jews specifically they couldn’t attend a funeral, while George Floyd’s was attended by many more people/celebrities/politicians. Why does one get a pass but not the other, this is the type of hypocritical talk going on.
@ Jhon M -- Have you heard anyone say that De Blasio has handled any of this appropriately? Everyone I know in NYC complains about him endlessly...hard to say he's getting a pass.
But I hear you on being frustrated by hypocrisy. There's a lot of that going on, but I don't think it's hypocritical of a travel blog to be talking about physical distancing, concerns around indoor events in close quarters, taking precautions, and...
@ Jhon M -- Have you heard anyone say that De Blasio has handled any of this appropriately? Everyone I know in NYC complains about him endlessly...hard to say he's getting a pass.
But I hear you on being frustrated by hypocrisy. There's a lot of that going on, but I don't think it's hypocritical of a travel blog to be talking about physical distancing, concerns around indoor events in close quarters, taking precautions, and generally being a responsible member of society. Travel is resilient, but is dependent upon people and the rest of the economy, all of which face negative impacts in a poorly-managed pandemic.
@Tiffany-Also the double standard of a mayor like De Blasio telling jews specifically they couldn’t attend a funeral, while George Floyd’s was attended by many more people/celebrities/politicians. Why does one get a pass but not the other, this is the type of hypocritical decrees going on.
@JJ This is how all Covid-related travel advisories around the world have worked, including the US' own existing bans. The goal is not to punish citizens of certain countries or to target any particular citizens at all; it is to keep contagion out.
It's a shame that major media outlets have been so lazy in their journalism, and that bloggers like Lucky have run with it, without applying any critical thought.
@tiffany - I'm not getting into semantics of what is wrong or right, pushing my beliefs onto other people is not up to me or anyone. Similarly, people were condemning the protesters demanding they be able to open their business, that was outside. You can't pick and choose which situation is allowed, that is my point, not which one has a higher risk. It be pretty hypocritical of a travel blog to bring up indoor...
@tiffany - I'm not getting into semantics of what is wrong or right, pushing my beliefs onto other people is not up to me or anyone. Similarly, people were condemning the protesters demanding they be able to open their business, that was outside. You can't pick and choose which situation is allowed, that is my point, not which one has a higher risk. It be pretty hypocritical of a travel blog to bring up indoor events in close quarters, when people are flying still.
I also can't point to a statistically relevant study that shows the outdoor protesters were either below or above the expected infection rate, you would need a control group and people tested before and after whether they had it or not. But again, I have no issue with people protesting, but if you can't see the hypocritical tone of condoning that action, while not actually knowing the consequences, you can't criticize others.
@Ed @Tina
Tina is correct. Belgium has a 14 day quarantine for non essential travelers through June 30 which will almost certainly be extended for non EU/Schengen zone residents. My wife is a dual citizen but will not go in July if she needs to quarantine for her entire trip and not be able to visit her mother. Germany has banned non essential non EU/Shengen residents Through August
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2016/04/50_outrageous_donald_trump_quo_1.html
50 even worse quotes from Trump, sourced, and found on google in about 15 seconds.
And yeah, Biden occasionally says things that aren't great. You know the difference between the two? Biden can acknowledge and apologize for his mistakes. It seems like the kind of thing this country could really friggin use right now.
@RT Flyer - Pathetic whataboutism attempt there. Relative to Trump? Really? SMH.
game on, RT:
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2016/04/50_outrageous_donald_trump_quo_1.html
50 quotes, sourced, and found on google in about 10 seconds. I really don't think you wanna play this game.
@robert shraeder where did you see it’s not based on nationality? One of the EUs criteria is who’s letting EU citizens into their country?
@Dan 6:48pm (his eighth post)...
Biden and some of his 'stutters'.
1. "In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent." (2006)
2. (about Obama) “You got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden told The New York Observer. “I mean,...
@Dan 6:48pm (his eighth post)...
Biden and some of his 'stutters'.
1. "In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent." (2006)
2. (about Obama) “You got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden told The New York Observer. “I mean, that’s a storybook.” (2008)
3. In Iowa last August at the Asian and Latino Coalition in Des Moines, Iowa “poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.”
This is the EU cutting of its own nose to spite its face. The latest data has Americans at 16 million having visited EU countries in 2019. The US has tested almost 28 million people; Germany has the most tests in the EU at a mere 5 million. It's a shame people do not wear masks indoors, and it is a shame that people politicize a global health issue. However this only helps the US,...
This is the EU cutting of its own nose to spite its face. The latest data has Americans at 16 million having visited EU countries in 2019. The US has tested almost 28 million people; Germany has the most tests in the EU at a mere 5 million. It's a shame people do not wear masks indoors, and it is a shame that people politicize a global health issue. However this only helps the US, by keeping Americans spending their money here. It is well known Americans spend the most in the EU. The EU's airlines are in dire condition and their economy is suffering; this is a lose lose situation and not really about health. If people wear masks indoors and practice social distancing, you can open your economy and deal with an uptick in what amounts to a flu. Folks with health conditions should taker extra precautions but these arguments about opening too early, my goodness. How long do you want to stay shut in for? This is here with us for at least a few years as even when a vaccine comes, how will you scale that for billions of people? Thoss politicizing this, as the NYT did, only add fuel to this incompetent fire which is the polarization and complete dumbing down of American culture driven by populism on the left and the right. The dems helped elect this guy and Trump is a symptom of what is wrong in society, he is not the real problem. Alas anything gets weaponized now. Shut down the EU to rich Americans and what do you have? Cuba, China and Uganda for &*%* sake? It would benefit both economies and especially the airline and tourism industries on both continents to open up to each other. I am a Greek American and I hope Greece moves unilaterally with Italy and Portugal to declare they will let Americans in. This will make it hard for other EU countries to then close their borders to all three countries (which is such a nasty retaliatory threat that hangs over the so called solidarity driven EU).
@Luke
Assuming you're using the same dashboard as I am, you can't divide the number of deaths by the number of cases to get the overall death rate because many of those cases are still active, and some of those people will die. The correct metric is deaths divided by total closed cases. The outcome is either recovery or death. Currently in the US there are 1,141,433 closed cases, of which 123,484 deaths, or...
@Luke
Assuming you're using the same dashboard as I am, you can't divide the number of deaths by the number of cases to get the overall death rate because many of those cases are still active, and some of those people will die. The correct metric is deaths divided by total closed cases. The outcome is either recovery or death. Currently in the US there are 1,141,433 closed cases, of which 123,484 deaths, or a 10.8% death rate. Globally the rate is currently 8.7%.
Those numbers are coming down as more people recover and as medical staff are getting a better handle on how to treat these patients, with some promising new developments on a regular basis. (Several weeks ago the global death rate was 21%, so things have obviously got better.) Of course, if medical facilities become overwhelmed with another surge in cases, all bets are off. But with close to 1.3 million active cases in the US, there are still tens of thousands of people who won't survive. And, sadly, that's going to be true for almost every other country, too, until we all get serious about this pandemic. Even when we have a vaccine, how will things play out with the anti-vaxx crowd? Or with pharmaceutical companies seeking to maximize profits from a vaccine?
I like travel as much as anyone else on this blog, and I lament the trips I've had to cancel and can't plan. But we need to be sensible or this is just going to keep on spreading in wave after wave, each wave causing unnecessary and increasingly avoidable misery and death.
Travel bans are based not on nationality, but on residence. You won't be banned for having a US passport, only if you are flying from the US.
You really aren't a sucker for details, Ben, are you?
American s can travel to the UK right now but theres a quaranitne.
This comment section is full of bigotry from all sides. Amazing amount of hate here. :(
Lol at the NY got it right, they have the most deaths, and and worst policies/healthcare system that exponentially inflamed the issue. LTC facilities in-taking patients that weren't recovered, leading to 40% of deaths in the state alone (40% nationally too, the PA health director had her own mother pulled out of the LTC home when they did a similar mandate to NY, do as I say, not as I do) plus numerous government mistakes...
Lol at the NY got it right, they have the most deaths, and and worst policies/healthcare system that exponentially inflamed the issue. LTC facilities in-taking patients that weren't recovered, leading to 40% of deaths in the state alone (40% nationally too, the PA health director had her own mother pulled out of the LTC home when they did a similar mandate to NY, do as I say, not as I do) plus numerous government mistakes related to helping the healthcare system, read the WSJ investigation on it. And you want the government to run healthcare like the VA and this wow...
Not to mention the complete lack of understanding how federalism in the USA works, each state is responsible for their decisions, we don't rule at a federal level, and when we do we cry dictator overreach, you can't have it both ways.
If you support the protesting of police brutality, then you should have no issue with the right to organize for political events too, otherwise you're hypocritical and don't believe in the upholding of the constitution.
@ Jhon M -- No one is saying there isn't a right to organize for political events (though I personally take issue with the one today that is being held inside a church). These particular political events are being held indoors, in crowded air-conditioned spaces, with minimal (if any) mask wearing or attempt at distancing.
In my county we have *one* case associated with the BLM protests, and *many* from various indoor activities. Hardly...
@ Jhon M -- No one is saying there isn't a right to organize for political events (though I personally take issue with the one today that is being held inside a church). These particular political events are being held indoors, in crowded air-conditioned spaces, with minimal (if any) mask wearing or attempt at distancing.
In my county we have *one* case associated with the BLM protests, and *many* from various indoor activities. Hardly seems hypocritical for people to point out that encouraging indoor events of any kind right now is not responsible.
They should just ban Trump from entering Europe.
@Lisfranc
Australia and New Zealand have wiped out the virus by closing borders and briefly locking down hard.
And now life has returned to normal, including almost all economic activity. We go to work, and the number of people wearing masks is zero. There’s no need.
The same is true of South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore (in terms of restored economic normality, not mask use).
Only Failed States try to reopen without first eliminating...
@Lisfranc
Australia and New Zealand have wiped out the virus by closing borders and briefly locking down hard.
And now life has returned to normal, including almost all economic activity. We go to work, and the number of people wearing masks is zero. There’s no need.
The same is true of South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore (in terms of restored economic normality, not mask use).
Only Failed States try to reopen without first eliminating community transmission. Compare the US economy with the Australian one, where unemployment has only risen by 3.4%. Whose economy is down the toilet? The one with 30 million unemployed or 7% unemployed?
If failing countries want to be reckless and reopen without terminating community transmission first, be my guest. But don’t expect your people to be allowed to enter higher-functioning countries. We don’t want or need your germs, and we can’t take the risk of our country ending up in the same mess as yours.
Does anyone here have any idea how many deaths that NY governor Andrew Cuomo is directly responsible for?
Saying that “NY got it right” is beyond ignorant.
I am a permanent resident of Hong Kong (one of the safest Covid locations at the moment) and haven't left HK since February, but because I hold a US passport, I might not be able to travel to the EU... ridiculous. Even the US isn't discriminating incoming passengers based on what passport they hold, but rather where they have been in the past 14 days.
Here in Australia and New Zealand we have banned Americans and everyone else for the last 12 weeks.
It’s working really well. The rest of you should try it.
@ray, the UK is no longer part of the EU, so it can no longer be in the majority or minority on EU decisions.
@simon, U.S. automobiles are no longer as uniformly bad as they used to be. *Consumer Reports* now recommends many U.S. cars. Of course, as another commenter mentioned to you above, you wouldn't want to buy a large U.S. vehicle to drive in Europe, and this would still be true if it were *Consumer Reports* recommended.
And pretty sure Trump shouldn't be picking any fights in the mental acuity dept. He can certainly drone on and gesture, but have you tried listening to the words he's saying.
Does Biden have issues speaking clearly at times? Yeah. This happens when you have a stutter.
Trump won. Did we?
If COVID is everywhere (which it largely is), what's the point in quarantining or locking down specific countries anymore? It made sense early on, when it was confined to a certain area (China, Italy, Iran) as a way to deter the spread. Due to the infectivity we now know that it has, this attempt was obviously in vain.
The world should have done what Sweden did from day one. I don't think any states...
If COVID is everywhere (which it largely is), what's the point in quarantining or locking down specific countries anymore? It made sense early on, when it was confined to a certain area (China, Italy, Iran) as a way to deter the spread. Due to the infectivity we now know that it has, this attempt was obviously in vain.
The world should have done what Sweden did from day one. I don't think any states will back track on the reopening plans or worse go into shutdown again. No politician (dem or rep) wants the killing of small businesses on their resume with the elections a few months away. Open up. Its time.
A European business person told me once Americans are a tourism necessity in Europe because fellow Europeans “do not like to spend money.” Non-Americans usually have a snide comment regarding how Americans spend but right, wrong or indifferent if true I’d imagine the travel ban won’t last long.
Stay Home, People
@Dan: Give me a decent candidate to vote for. Not a forgetful old man who struggles to find the right words.
Trump? I didn't vote for him, but he did something Hillary couldn't do and Biden won't do: win.
My dual citizenship hubby (Czech/American) and our kids (dual citizens also) have tickets from San Francisco to Prague (via Frankfort) . We live in California. If the ban goes through, will they be allowed to go to Prague with Czech Passports or not at all? We were told if he is visiting immediate family to help with medical reasons (his mom lives in Prague) then it would be fine, although it does require a drive...
My dual citizenship hubby (Czech/American) and our kids (dual citizens also) have tickets from San Francisco to Prague (via Frankfort) . We live in California. If the ban goes through, will they be allowed to go to Prague with Czech Passports or not at all? We were told if he is visiting immediate family to help with medical reasons (his mom lives in Prague) then it would be fine, although it does require a drive down to the embassy in Los Angeles to renew the Czech passport. Am I understanding that if this ban on July 1 goes forth, that it won't matter what passports they hold? They won't be able to go at all? Thanks for helping.
"Given that Trump supporters are uneducated and broke people who only travel to rallies, I don’t see them being bothered by this." - yes its doubtful most of the president's supporters have real interest in international travel.
@1KBrad - how about that Tulsa rally! 1MM registered! Overflow stage for the 40k people who couldn’t join the 19K inside!
Oh wait that’s just a Trump fantasy that never actually took place. Keep pretending it’s 2016!!!
"This shouldn’t come as much of a surprise given how the coronavirus has been handled in the US," - it should read given how the coronavirus has been handled in SOME states. Its bull the entire country suffers because of morons in certain states that refuse to wear masks or socially distance. Soo annoyed that my state went through all these intense restrictions, got the situation under control and now because the south is full...
"This shouldn’t come as much of a surprise given how the coronavirus has been handled in the US," - it should read given how the coronavirus has been handled in SOME states. Its bull the entire country suffers because of morons in certain states that refuse to wear masks or socially distance. Soo annoyed that my state went through all these intense restrictions, got the situation under control and now because the south is full of covidiots it looks like I will be denied access to Europe.
@ George
"They (Europeans) want our (American) cars" ....WHAT?!! Are you smoking something mind bending? Europeans shun American cars and as for " wanting our Boeings " yeah right..like the 737Max maybe? I am a proud American, but you seems to be stuck in in the 1950s, when to post war torn Europe everything from the USA was god like. Keep smoking you "herbs" @George...
And Trump is the best the GOP could do? His accomplishment list is pretty short and continues to diminish.
1KBrad - I'm fine with folks like you trotting out that well-worn line. We should assume this is a fight to the wire and every vote counts. SO GO OUT AND VOTE.
I'm thinking if they are gonna control people with dual nationality.
In Brazil a lot of people have this: Italian, portuguese, spanish, french, german...
They actually live in Brazil but get to travel (and get visa waiver like to the US) with the european one.
Given that Trump supporters are uneducated and broke people who only travel to rallies, I don't see them being bothered by this. It will affect those of us who 1) have the funds to travel and 2) are intelligent enough to be interested in seeing other countries/cultures.
A Trump supporter's idea of international travel is crossing the state line...
NYC did what it needed to do. So did the other east coast states. As did most of the Democratic led states.
As a New Yorker, I'd happily secede. For three months, I've endured a job loss, a serious illness, a small apartment as my only refuge - and now, because I sacrificed to make sure that the country could stay safe and healthy, a bunch of Floridians and Texans and Arizonans have screwed it...
NYC did what it needed to do. So did the other east coast states. As did most of the Democratic led states.
As a New Yorker, I'd happily secede. For three months, I've endured a job loss, a serious illness, a small apartment as my only refuge - and now, because I sacrificed to make sure that the country could stay safe and healthy, a bunch of Floridians and Texans and Arizonans have screwed it up, incapable of learning from the experience of the people who were dealing with it first.
Why? Because you thought it was fake news, because it was a hoax, and because you voted for an inordinate number of stupid people to run the show.
Thanks, red states, for nothing. For no tax revenue, for no health system, for nothing but your anti-immigrant sentiments, your foolishness, and your Fox News echo chamber.
I'm done. You may get what you deserve, but how selfish you are to give it to the rest of us.
Can someone please clarify the following:
1. Is the plan to ban US citizens, or foreigners who have been in the US during the past fourteen days or a certain period, or both? Reading the comments, I have been confused by this.
2. The NY Times article listing the plan claimed there are currently some EU countries that welcome foreigners (perhaps with a fourteen day quarantine or testing requirement; I am not sure). If this...
Can someone please clarify the following:
1. Is the plan to ban US citizens, or foreigners who have been in the US during the past fourteen days or a certain period, or both? Reading the comments, I have been confused by this.
2. The NY Times article listing the plan claimed there are currently some EU countries that welcome foreigners (perhaps with a fourteen day quarantine or testing requirement; I am not sure). If this is the case, is there a last chance for Americans to enter Europe by going to one of these countries prior to July 1?
WAKE UP
The ban will be for travellers from the US, not the passport you hold....because of the lack of leadership....it is stilll not handling the "flu" crisis.. rates are rocketing AZ TX & sadly FL where I am permanent resident (UK passport)
Sorry NY you have managed the crisis but will be penalised also...
Weeks ago I posted that travellers from the US would not be welcome anytime soon..
US never went into...
WAKE UP
The ban will be for travellers from the US, not the passport you hold....because of the lack of leadership....it is stilll not handling the "flu" crisis.. rates are rocketing AZ TX & sadly FL where I am permanent resident (UK passport)
Sorry NY you have managed the crisis but will be penalised also...
Weeks ago I posted that travellers from the US would not be welcome anytime soon..
US never went into serious lockdown
My wings are clipped and as an avid traveller with family all over the world dont see an end to my grounding anytime soon....
Just had my trip to greece in august cancelled by Delta and looks like they aren't doing any direct flights into Greece until October based on their updated schedule
Germans using Robert Koch Institute listing to determine admissibility are showing the USA and most US states as a risk area, so its unlikely Americans will be allowed to Germany/EU any time soon https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Risikogebiete_neu.html
There are also a large group of people who live here in the US on work visas, and because of the dismal way the US (and UK) have handled the pandemic we can not return to see family, because if we do there is a high probability we will not be allowed to re-enter the US. This is where home is, where we pay taxes and own property. But because we lawfully entered and are awaiting a process we are penalized. Thanks DJT, I feel like I’m winning, and I cant even vote!
Sounds like a lot of Trump haters here are going to hate the next four years when he wins re-election.
Biden was the best the Left could do.
Sad.
@DKB I'm not sure where you are getting the 26% positive test rate from for Florida, but the current official number is 6.3%. Also let's not forget that for an extended period, you could only get tested if symptomatic.
John (and everyone else) - stop picking on NYC. NYC has some of the best statistics (in terms of current spread, testing, current number of infected, deaths, hospitalization trends) of anywhere in the country. We got hit hard, but are opening the right way. TX/FL/AZ would do well to adapt some of the tactics that are in place here as of now.
Most individual EU countries require a travel history over the 14 day period prior to your arrival. Some even have online “flight pass” applications required before you board the aircraft.
But at the end of the day, they want to be seeing as doing something while at the same time not damaging the economy! So my opinion is that entry requirements are relaxed intentionally! Not because they are incompetent!
How would they do a travel bubble from certain US states to Europe? That sounds dumb to me as many times people connect within The US to go to Europe. People would obviously just lie, like Americans were sneaking in to Canada by saying they were driving to Alaska.
I do agree they should just place this ban until the numbers are down in America, but it doesn't seem like leadership will ever take it seriously enough.
Sounds like we can largely thank the mismanagement from NYC leadership for this...
Controlling for testing rates, there are no numbers out there that put the US in a good light.
And fat chance getting valid testing rates while the President, by his own word, has been doing his best to slow testing down.
Not to worry. The NASDAQ hit a record high. God Bless America and nobody else.
Given how it has been handled by the US? The per capita infection rate is about the same as in Europe. Raw counts, and any data coming from China, are meaningless.
In any case, they are only hurting themselves, given how the EU relies on tourism, and extorting money from foreign businesses and governments, to survive.
I suppose the EU will still happily accept our money and assets used to defend them.
Sure is a shame we can't close state borders in the US as countries have in the EU. Living in NY, specifically NYC we have made great progress while other backwards parts of this country choose to ignore science. Would love a travel bubble with the EU while closing off the NorthEast region to the rest of the US.
@Tina, EU/UK citizens are not banned from the US. Only EU/UK citizens that have been in EU/UK, China, Iran or Brazil in the last 14 days are banned. It is not a fair reciprocation. US citizens who have not been in the US for several weeks should not be banned.
Carl, if mentioning hard facts regarding public health amounts to negatively politicizing things for you, perhaps you ought to reconsider your politics?
Have expected it it. The US has a very bad reputation right now. Trump is really ruining the alliances completely, especially with the Europeans. But the ban is also good for both sides. Germany and Spain are having 2nd local outbreaks right now. Surely, do not want to travel from one hotspot to another.
Sigh, another post politicizing public health. At least its an upgrade I suppose from posts ratting on hardworking hotel housekeepers and harassment of female passengers minding their own business.
Your man in Washington is going to make political hay out of this and the result will be tit for tat bans and restrictions for weeks if not months to come, I am sure a tweet is imminent.
It’s kind of shocking the amount of hubris you seem to have w.r.t. this disease.
Firstly, the opening sentence about the EU closing their borders while still using American products makes no logical sense. In what conceivable way are these ideas connected? Are you saying they should stop using their iPhones because a lot of Americans have COVID?
Secondly, your 0.3% figure seems to come from nowhere. As of this writing, I’m seeing 2,401,613 confirmed cases and 122,877 deaths in the US on a dashboard that compiles statistics from official sources. That’s a death rate of 5.1%, or about 1 in 20.
And if it's such theater, why the countries enforcing strict PPE/isolation rules doing so much better at controlling the transmission rate than those that aren't?
Face it - this is common sense prevention. And we're not doing it in the US out of a combination of garden variety incompetence and fear of upsetting our president's fragile ego.
Well, George, if people could get Covid by using Google, you might have a point. For once stop thinking about your precious ego and consider the fact that some people make decisions based on medical science.
'Who in the world with a right mindset would like to drive an American car?'
I was just asking myself that. Between the german, italian, french, spanish and even czech brands, why would anyone choose to drive a big guzzling saloon thru the narrow streets of european cities??
@DKB: Don't forget that China only reported 7 deaths in Shanghai and 9 in Beijing. You can interpret those number anyway you want.
@Simon
You've never driven a Z06? It's a hoot.
Anyways. If Trump stops being a derp and just open up the country internationally then negotiations could take place. Cases are high but fatalities per 1M is still lower than most of Europe.
I like your point mentioning that they've been getting it wrong with basing it on citizenship rather than where you've been.
I've been trapped in Slovakia now for 102 days (rented a car in Poland on 3/13, crossed the border into Slovakia, border closed unexpectedly that night) Despite the Polish border now being open to people from Slovakia/Europe, and my being in Slovakia for 3+ months, I still can't enter to return the car...
I like your point mentioning that they've been getting it wrong with basing it on citizenship rather than where you've been.
I've been trapped in Slovakia now for 102 days (rented a car in Poland on 3/13, crossed the border into Slovakia, border closed unexpectedly that night) Despite the Polish border now being open to people from Slovakia/Europe, and my being in Slovakia for 3+ months, I still can't enter to return the car to Poland since my passport is American. Even as I look at where I can travel next, I'm blocked from nearly everywhere becuase of my American passport, even though I've been in one of safest countries in Europe since this started.
@Ed, yes indeed. cultural institutions - writers , orchestras, singers , actors , artists who are mostly democrats are welcome. After all , trump has no interest in culture and the arts. Lady Gaga, Patti Lupone, Mia Farrow , Bette Midler l, Robert de Niro are all welcome
Who in the world with a right mindset would like to drive an American car?
@George well said!
Where's the cove in the first picture?
It means nothing - If Europe blocks Americans/ US Govt will continue to ban Europeans & European airlines. Which I support. 100% negotiating tactic/ EU trying to save face, act like they are vetting Typhoid Mary Americans...but then (as previously mentioned) 2 weeks after July 1 EU will open all borders b/c their national airlines are on verge of collapse, desperate to relaunch lucrative transatlantic routes.
Do you honestly think Trump would allow Europeans...
It means nothing - If Europe blocks Americans/ US Govt will continue to ban Europeans & European airlines. Which I support. 100% negotiating tactic/ EU trying to save face, act like they are vetting Typhoid Mary Americans...but then (as previously mentioned) 2 weeks after July 1 EU will open all borders b/c their national airlines are on verge of collapse, desperate to relaunch lucrative transatlantic routes.
Do you honestly think Trump would allow Europeans to travel to USA, while EU bans Americans? EU knows this...thus EU trying to negotiate/ re-engage
@George: Please don’t forget that EU /UK citizens are also banned from travel to the US with no lifting in sight.
They don't want us to travel to their continent, but they want to use our google, apple, facebook, twitter. Or drive our cars, or fly boeing jets.
Classic.
Until everyone realizes this is total security theater for a disease that is deadly to around .3% of the people that get it, we're in for a long ride.
You can ban anyone you want, but that doesn't make you anything other than a hypocrite for taking...
They don't want us to travel to their continent, but they want to use our google, apple, facebook, twitter. Or drive our cars, or fly boeing jets.
Classic.
Until everyone realizes this is total security theater for a disease that is deadly to around .3% of the people that get it, we're in for a long ride.
You can ban anyone you want, but that doesn't make you anything other than a hypocrite for taking action against such a small worldly threat.
I've got tickets to AMS on the 23rd, so, we'll see what happens.
Good work everyone in panicking over such a minor thing.
Hurts everyone, including yourselves.
To follow up Tiffany's useful post.
Ireland has a 0.5% positive test rate, Florida is at 26%, no way to spin that number positively for Floridians and America in general.
@Tamas,
what reason would Trump have to open the US to Europeans? Trump doesn't care about Europeans. He only cares about his base and his ego.
So unless European leaders fall on their knees and beg Trump to allow Europeans to visit the US, he will not open the US.
I think it is nonsense that the US is Still banning EU members from entering to US. Most EU countries have very Low case Numbers, low risk of bringing the virus to US from here... Still no sign to open AMerica again. As european i would welcome US people as soon as possible. Hope July 1 can be a turning point and President Trump will allow International travel from EU to US considering reciprocity.
@Anthony, it's going to be quite the challenge to convince a significant portion of people to do better in this country when our Dear Leader is advocating for fewer tests, had an indoor rally with thousands of maskless supporters, and recently asserted that the virus will just fade away (when infections are rapidly going up by the day). The infection rates nationally are only going to get worse as the summer drags on, as are...
@Anthony, it's going to be quite the challenge to convince a significant portion of people to do better in this country when our Dear Leader is advocating for fewer tests, had an indoor rally with thousands of maskless supporters, and recently asserted that the virus will just fade away (when infections are rapidly going up by the day). The infection rates nationally are only going to get worse as the summer drags on, as are international entry restrictions on the US.
Special shout-out to all the Covidiots ruining the comment section in the last few posts Lucky made. It's thanks to you special little snowflakes that we all suffer.
Of course, banning Americans will play right into the hands of Trump and his base. After all, his base probably doesn't travel to Europe much if at all, so what do they care. And Trump can use it as an excuse to retaliate against Europe and turn up the Trade War a notch.
In the end, Blue States will suffer most as they have the most European connections.
@Tina,
yes that is correct. A quarantine for arrivals from high risk areas. But there is no blanket 14 day quarantine.
Good. And well deserved. The American response to COVID19 has been an unmitigated disaster. As an American, I am sad to say the country is simply disintegrating under the weight of vast inequality, greed, corruption, racism, and an out of control demagogue solely interested in his ego, criminal businesses, and stoking a base of white supremacists and religious fanatics. America is sliding into a failed state. We have Trump, Hillary, and the Trump base to blame.
I enjoy this blog, but really, it's all aimed at being rarin' to get on a plane and go somewhere, when the reality is that Americans need to Just Stay Home.
Holders of U.S. passports are going to be personae non gratae for quite some time, because COVID-19 cases are on the rise in half the states and nothing significant is being done to contain the spread of the virus. For anyone who thinks...
I enjoy this blog, but really, it's all aimed at being rarin' to get on a plane and go somewhere, when the reality is that Americans need to Just Stay Home.
Holders of U.S. passports are going to be personae non gratae for quite some time, because COVID-19 cases are on the rise in half the states and nothing significant is being done to contain the spread of the virus. For anyone who thinks April and May were bad: wait 'til August and September.
As others have noted, Trump and the gutless Republican-led Senate can be thanked for the steaming hot mess the United States finds its self in.
@Ed: in Germany federal states issued 14 days quarantine rules for all arrivals from the mention RKI List (which includes a lot if countries)- which is also a legally binding (negative certificate test might be accepted but depends on the local office)
@NK3,
The CDC lost all credibility. And many people don't care anymore.
Also, the CDC still says that we are supposed to quarantine for 14 days after any international trip. So even if Europe would let Americans in for that week long summer vacation, you are supposed to sit at home for 2 weeks afterwards. Though you can visit any domestic Covid hotspot, like Arizona, South Carolina, etc., and there is no official recommendation to stay at home.
@Tina,
AFAIK only UK and Hawaii have strict quarantine rules. Nobody else.
Will UK citizens be allowed in?
@Ed: They could travel as EU citizens but need to quarantine for 14 days
We're paying a much higher price than travel. Millions of elderly relatives of idiots that *need* to be on beaches, in bars and clubs are getting sick.
But hey. Freedom and liberty.
These are the states that the German Robert Koch Institute lists as high risk areas from which people cannot travel to the EU:
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Iowa
Louisiana
Maryland
Mississippi
Nebraska
Nevada
North Carolina
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Puerto Rico
I'm from Europe but I would like to point out that these statistics with number of cases and testing are so subjective. One should keep in mind that the US has tested more than all European countries combined. So while I come from a country with a relative low number of cases, I also come from a country with a relatively low number of people tested. When I read the other day how many people...
I'm from Europe but I would like to point out that these statistics with number of cases and testing are so subjective. One should keep in mind that the US has tested more than all European countries combined. So while I come from a country with a relative low number of cases, I also come from a country with a relatively low number of people tested. When I read the other day how many people are tested in certain states in the US which are comparable to the population size of my own country, I was really surprised. So it's logical that there are more cases in the US.
And for the American visitors here, don't be so critical of your own country. If you think Europe has done a marvelous job, trust me it hasn't. The whole concept of European Union solidarity crumbled over night on the continent, old divisions and geographical divides reappeared and a number of "wold class" health systems collapsed.
@ Nick -- The per capita cases / indications of uncontrolled spread are the more likely cause for concern (6.7x that of EU average), not the number of cases as such. If you look at smaller units the elevated concern makes some sense.
My county in the US has about the same population as Iceland, for example. We have had ~1k confirmed cases, and 39 deaths, but we've only done ~21k tests in total this...
@ Nick -- The per capita cases / indications of uncontrolled spread are the more likely cause for concern (6.7x that of EU average), not the number of cases as such. If you look at smaller units the elevated concern makes some sense.
My county in the US has about the same population as Iceland, for example. We have had ~1k confirmed cases, and 39 deaths, but we've only done ~21k tests in total this year. Iceland has had ~1800 confirmed cases, and 10 deaths, but has done ~70k tests. Iceland has had 24 locally-diagnosed cases in the past month -- they had *one* new case reported yesterday, from someone at a border screening. Meanwhile we had 56 new cases yesterday, and 22 the day before.
Not to forgetting that EU & UK are also still banned with no reopening date in sight from the US.
It was early mention that infection rates and travel restrictions for EU citizens will play a role in reopening the external borders for some countries.
If not all countries in the Schengen area will follow the guidelines from the EU again internal borders will happen again - which nobody wants.
JBR - Relax. We have done a poor job, but hopefully headlines like this will convince people to do better. Plus, negotiations will go a long way here. Look for US travel to be allowed later in the Summer. Nothing is ever static.
What a wonderful idea! Airlines and hotel companies might lobby against this, hopefully to minimal effect, though. I hope the UK won’t stray from the majority. Whitehall must understand that the very real risk of an imported outbreak from the US is NOT worth any trade deal.
Yeah, don’t think we can blame them on this. We closed off the EU when Italy had 333 active cases/1M. We have 934 active cases/1M, and we are still currently trending up.
@Anthony, exactly why would they do that when Covid is exploding in the US? Virtually no countries who currently are banning the US from entry are going to relax entry restrictions until a vaccine is developed as they know we have completely given up controlling the spread of the virus as a country. We are an international joke, and will pay the price accordingly when it comes to international travel.
You know Trumpanzee is going to take a fit, beat his chest and impose tariffs on the EU.
@Chris - I’m of dual citizenship but I’m not out dancing in the streets over this decision given that there will be no flights from here to there without going to extremes.
Some member EU nations may pushback hard on this and not participate in the American ban. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
agree with the winning, 46% of us deserve this...
@elboyo this is based on where you have been not where you travel to. A US citizen living in for example the UK will not be effected by this rule
@Chris
I think that many of the US citizens who haven't been in the US in months or years will be exempt from this.
So far, as I understand, a lot of travel bans have been made in some combination of passport country and travel history. I personally won't be testing out trying to travel to any other EU countries until I relocate in autumn.
"No problem" say thousands of US residents who have dual citizenship.
I picked the wrong year to be one generation removed from birthright. :(
This was probably leaked to kick off some negotiations between the US and EU. I would expect US travel to be allowed within a couple of weeks after July 1 (probably July 15 or 31).
Completely expected and warranted. I trust the Canadian border will remain closed as well.
No surprise at all. The USA is an international embarrassment lead by a total moron.
We deserve the scorn.
Books ✈️ to a quieter Europe
@Lucky
Do you know if this is specifically aimed at Americans, or people who have visisted the USA within X amount of time?
As you sit at home for the next couple years, watching people from nearly every other country in the world enjoy hassle-free travel worldwide, remember to thank all the Trump-lovers. This is their doing.
So much winning...