In 2017, Delta Air Lines introduced its Delta One Suite, which is the carrier’s latest business class product. At the time, Delta was the first global US carrier to add a door to a business class seat (JetBlue Mint also had doors at select seats, though JetBlue didn’t operate any long haul routes at the time).
It has now been about seven years since Delta introduced its new business class product, so how many of the carrier’s long haul jets have this product? I wanted to talk about that a bit in this post, so that passengers can get a sense of which product they’ll find on which Delta aircraft. I wrote similar guides for American and United.
In this post:
What are Delta One Suites in business class like?
Delta refers to its latest business class product as Delta One Suites. This is a modified version of the Vantage XL seat, which you’ll find on a variety of airlines. Personally I rank this toward the bottom of the list of the world’s best business class seats (meaning it’s very good, but there are some better products).
These seats are pretty solid and they’re in a staggered configuration, with doors. Now, the seats may feel a bit tight for some people — one of the reasons these staggered configurations are so popular with airlines is because of how efficiently they utilize space, with the area for your feet being located to the side of the seat in front.
Anyway, it’s the best that the airline has to offer, so if you do fly Delta business class, you’ll ideally want to end up on these planes.
Which planes have Delta One Suites?
Given Delta’s huge and varied wide body and international fleet, on which aircraft can you expect to find Delta One Suites? Let’s take a look, covering all Delta aircraft that have flights that are marketed as Delta One (which is what Delta calls its premium business class).
Most Airbus A350-900s have Delta One Suites
Delta currently has a fleet of 34 Airbus A350-900s, with another 10 of these jets on order (in addition to 20 Airbus A350-1000s, which will be delivered starting in late 2025).
Of those planes, 25 have Delta One Suites. This is the aircraft for which the Delta One Suite was designed, and you’ll find that this aircraft also has the most spacious business class seats.
The catch is that Delta acquired nine Airbus A350-900s from LATAM, and these feature a totally different interior. Business class on these jets is in a 2-2-2 configuration, so there’s not even direct aisle access. Delta intends to reconfigure these planes, though the first reconfigured jet hasn’t entered service yet.
So you can expect that if you see an A350 with a 1-2-1 configuration, it’ll be the new business class, while the 2-2-2 configuration won’t have that product.
All Delta A330-900neos have Delta One Suites
Delta currently has a fleet of 31 Airbus A330-900neos, with another eight of these jets on order. All Delta A330-900neos have identical interiors, with Delta One Suites that have doors.
The catch is that given the A330-900neo’s narrower fuselage, you’ll find that the Delta One Suite feels a bit tighter than on the A350-900.
No Delta A330-200s & A330-300s have Delta One Suites
Delta has a fleet of 11 A330-200s and 31 A330-300s. These planes have reverse herringbone seats in business class. While this is a popular kind of seat, these are far from the most cutting edge reverse herringbone seats out there, and many find them to feel a bit tight.
Delta has plans to retrofit its A330-300s as of late 2026, though we don’t know what kind of a product they’ll get. My assumption would be that they’ll get Delta One Suites, similar to what you’ll find on the A330-900neo, but that’s purely speculation. Meanwhile there are no plans to reconfigure A330-200s. While I imagine they’ll fly well into the 2030s, they are a bit older than the A330-300s.
No Delta 767-400ERs have Delta One Suites
Delta has a fleet of 21 Boeing 767-400ERs, which are used for both international and key transcontinental routes. These planes have a staggered business class configuration, though at least it has been refreshed in recent years. While these planes don’t have Delta One Suites, they do have some privacy partitions, and updated finishes.
These seats will still feel on the tight side, given the narrow fuselage of the 767, plus how staggered seats are arranged. While the 767-400s have more modern seats than the A330-200s and A330-300s, I’d still say that the A330s offer a more comfortable seating configuration. Delta doesn’t have plans to update the interiors of the 767s further.
No Delta 767-300ERs have Delta One Suites
Delta has a fleet of 40 Boeing 767-300ERs. These planes are by far Delta’s weakest wide body jets, and I’d argue these have among the worst business class seats you’ll find on any carrier, at least compared to what you’d hope the airline offers.
These seats are tight, outdated, have small entertainment monitors, etc. What’s so frustrating is that these jets are flown on all kinds of transatlantic routes where Delta charges top dollar, while offering a disappointing experience. Delta has no plans to update these interiors, though the planes are expected to be pulled from international flights by 2028, and to be retired by 2030 (though who knows).
No Delta 757-200s have Delta One Suites
While not a wide body jet, some Delta 757-200s also have a Delta One cabin. Delta has 99 Boeing 757-200s, but only 15 of them have flat beds, and operate routes where the forward cabin is marketed as Delta One. On these planes, Delta has the Collins Aerospace Diamond product, which are fully flat seats in a 2-2 configuration. This isn’t an exciting product, but you really can’t expect much more for an outdated narrow body aircraft like this.
Bottom line
Back in 2017, Delta introduced its new Delta One Suites business class. So far, this product is found on all A330-900neos and select A350-900s. Unfortunately you’ll find different seats on the carrier’s A330-200s, A330-300s, 767-300ERs, 767-400ERs, and 757-200s.
It’s disappointing that Delta has gone so many years without retrofitting the new suites on any other planes currently in service. The A330-300s should get some new seats starting in 2026, but that’s the extent of the plans to retrofit the existing fleet.
What do you make of the rollout of Delta One Suites?
Bottom line: Delta isn't consistent in any way in their business class.
Whether it's the lack of all aisle access on brand new planes or just old old coffin seats, Delta is in last place in hard product of the US3.
Delta has zero new airplanes without direct aisle access in business class.
The ex-Latam 350s are the only widebodies in DL's fleet that don't have it and they are in modification to DL's standards now.
I appreciate you focusing on the topic but you actually have to get it right if you want to make statements.
and, as much fixation as there is with business class, DL has by far the most space in...
Delta has zero new airplanes without direct aisle access in business class.
The ex-Latam 350s are the only widebodies in DL's fleet that don't have it and they are in modification to DL's standards now.
I appreciate you focusing on the topic but you actually have to get it right if you want to make statements.
and, as much fixation as there is with business class, DL has by far the most space in coach.
Has it occurred to you or anyone else that part of the reason why DL gets a revenue premium is because of the wider seats that DL has on its widebodies and esp. the A330 family which has the widest seats in the US big 3's widebody fleet?
And the A220 - which is 100 or so strong in the DL fleet - is the widest in the big 3 narrowbody fleet.
and I don't believe any other US airline offers a wider business class seat than on the A350-900 original Delta One (not the ex-Latam).
so, yes, DL has alot of variance but it also has a growing number of the best product available on US carriers
Delta specifically tells wall street where their profits are derived. Monopoly core hubs and their AMEX deal. So no, Delta doesn't talk about wide seats on the A330 lol.
Where do you come up with this nonsense.
And thanks for reinforcing that Delta does not have all aisle access in business class on their brand new A359s.
"and I don't believe any other US airline offers a wider business class seat than on...
Delta specifically tells wall street where their profits are derived. Monopoly core hubs and their AMEX deal. So no, Delta doesn't talk about wide seats on the A330 lol.
Where do you come up with this nonsense.
And thanks for reinforcing that Delta does not have all aisle access in business class on their brand new A359s.
"and I don't believe any other US airline offers a wider business class seat than on the A350-900 original Delta One (not the ex-Latam)."
easy thing to check. And no. It is not the widest business class seat. A simple look at what AA and Delta publish on their own websites would show that Delta's flagship suite on the A359 is narrower than every AA J seat
It should be noted that DL is reportedly on the verge of opening an A350 pilot base in SEA and shifting several of the SEA-Asia routes to the A350, sending flying for those 330-900s to Europe.
The A350 is faster which should save 20 minutes or more on TPAC crossings and, as Ben notes, has a wider seat. The new and reconfigured ex-Latam 359s and apparently eventually all 359s will have 40 seats in...
It should be noted that DL is reportedly on the verge of opening an A350 pilot base in SEA and shifting several of the SEA-Asia routes to the A350, sending flying for those 330-900s to Europe.
The A350 is faster which should save 20 minutes or more on TPAC crossings and, as Ben notes, has a wider seat. The new and reconfigured ex-Latam 359s and apparently eventually all 359s will have 40 seats in business so even more opportunity for premium revenue.
The 339 was great to get SEA up and running following the 763 that was initially used but the hub is growing to justify the flagship plane in the fleet.
In other news, DL’s load factors to Taipei are plummeting while the airline struggles to make inroads in Asia.
The 359s while losing 31 economy seats go from 80 premium seats to *checks notes* 80 premium seats while also being less fuel efficient than their competitors 787-9/10.
It’s been 8 years since the initial rollout of the latest Delta One seat and still no ex-LA 350s, 763s, or A330ceos are flying with the new product,...
In other news, DL’s load factors to Taipei are plummeting while the airline struggles to make inroads in Asia.
The 359s while losing 31 economy seats go from 80 premium seats to *checks notes* 80 premium seats while also being less fuel efficient than their competitors 787-9/10.
It’s been 8 years since the initial rollout of the latest Delta One seat and still no ex-LA 350s, 763s, or A330ceos are flying with the new product, while United has retrofitted around 200 widebodies in less time.
They are only nominally going from 80 to 80 if you blindly bundle it together.
Because a Delta One seat is not the same as a Premium Select seat. If you think a Premium Select seat that's 1/3 the price of a Delta One seat is the same, then that's ridiculous.
They're going from 32 D1 seats to 40 D1 seats which will theoretically be a net increase in total revenue.
I tend to agree with you but I think you’re missing one key point. They’re not trading 8 PS for 8 D1. They’re trading 31 Economy AND 8 PS for 8 D1. At that value proposition, it’s less of a revenue problem and more a performance problem.
in other news, Delta remains the most profitable airline in the US. and will be at the end of 2024 even if SEA-TPE on DL doesn't earn another dollar of revenue.
Why, oh, why can DL afford to support so much money losing routes and hubs that everyone seems to love to talk about but still be the most profitable?
Where, oh, where does every other airline including United, lose money that no one wants...
in other news, Delta remains the most profitable airline in the US. and will be at the end of 2024 even if SEA-TPE on DL doesn't earn another dollar of revenue.
Why, oh, why can DL afford to support so much money losing routes and hubs that everyone seems to love to talk about but still be the most profitable?
Where, oh, where does every other airline including United, lose money that no one wants to talk about?
and, yes, DL is trading 8 PS seats on the current 359 configuration for 8 D1 seats. clearly they expect to make more revenue.
it has been a decade since UA rolled out their first a/c w/ Polaris and they have no plans to put a suite product on their widebodies.
DL will have 75 by the end of 2025 and AA will have as many as 1/3 of that number depending on how fast their 777W mods go.
UA, not DL, is behind the times.
Well, "Tim"
Per Delta:
1. Monopoly core hubs
2. Credit card deal that puts a couple billion more toward the margin vs United.
Otherwise, United is pretty clearly the more core profitable airline from flying/selling tickets
first, United flies more capacity so it should make more on passenger revenue.
The 4th quarter is not over and UAL may or may not end up with more passenger revenue than DAL but UAL won't beat DAL on a passenger revenue per ASM basis.
Just like the refinery, you and others want to ding DL for coming up with a better credit card program and having the refinery. Just as with where DAL...
first, United flies more capacity so it should make more on passenger revenue.
The 4th quarter is not over and UAL may or may not end up with more passenger revenue than DAL but UAL won't beat DAL on a passenger revenue per ASM basis.
Just like the refinery, you and others want to ding DL for coming up with a better credit card program and having the refinery. Just as with where DAL opens (and closed hubs), UA and AA have had the same almost 50 years of deregulation to figure out how to make money that DL has had.
If DL's much higher profits are attributable to all of the extra revenue sources that DL has and the lower fuel costs it has gotten because of the refinery - which may or may not do much to lower fuel costs this year since they are already low, then that simply reinforces that DL outstrategized AA and UA.
The real challenge for DL is to keep growing faster than the rest of the industry and THAT is why I think DL is going to grow much more aggressively in international than AA or UA, why DL will open an AUS hub, why Delta Tech Ops will see much more revenue - tied to fixing all of these broken engines that Pratt and Whitney has sold but can't supply parts for anyone to fix etc.
AA and UA SHOULD be making as much money as DL but they aren't - and they aren't close.
Competition is good but as Cranky says, when DL falls from its position at the top of the industry, we will all know. but it hasn't happened yet and is unlikely to happen
the way you wake up on a Monday and go click back through your weekend comments to make sure you get the last word is so lame and pathetic lol.
You don't even have good replies
Get a life, loser. How many times do you need to be proven wrong to shut up?
and you added precisely what to the conversation, Julie?
The obvious answer is precisely NOTHING because you are more worried about whether I get the last word or whether you do.
YOU are the one that degrades the conversation because you throw insults at other people rather than discussion ANYTHING related to the topic at hand.
YOU, Julie, are the loser and you are your own worst enemy if you want to see less of me.
Just. Walk. Away.
wow. Way to repeat back what I said to sound cool. lol
Make up your own material, weirdo
And I did add value to the conversation. You asked about delta's profitability even though it's off topic, and I responded with what Delta Air Lines tells the SEC. You just don't like what your own airline says about why they're profitable.
Your broken brain isn't my fault.
¡BuT dElTa Is ThE mOsT pReMiUm AiRlInE!
in terms of what customers pay per seat mile compared to competitors, yes.
regardless of the service or product, premium comes down across the board to a difference in what customers are willing to pay for a product or service.
Delta Sucks…5,4,3,2,1 enters Tim Dunn to defend hehe
I defend the facts, regardless of what they are about.
you and others simply cannot accept that DL remains the only US carrier with a business class suite product seven years after DL introduced the concept as a US airline.
AA is trying to fix its deficiency while UA isn't even trying because it would complicate the mediocre but uniform product that is Polaris.
Is this the dai Tim Dunn shōkan no jutsu? Works perfectly
Oh look, another lie from Tim Dunn! B6 Mint with doors was introduced earlier than DL One Suites.
only partially true - and with lots of caveats.
The original Mint had suites with doors on 1/ 3 of the seats - every other row was 2-2 and the suites were in the rows between. So, only 1/3 of the Mint seats were suites.
B6 introduced to Mint to compete with DL's widebody Business Elite non-suite product and AA's new A321T product, both of which had direct aisle access from every row although...
only partially true - and with lots of caveats.
The original Mint had suites with doors on 1/ 3 of the seats - every other row was 2-2 and the suites were in the rows between. So, only 1/3 of the Mint seats were suites.
B6 introduced to Mint to compete with DL's widebody Business Elite non-suite product and AA's new A321T product, both of which had direct aisle access from every row although without doors.
second, Mint then was a domestic only product on 321CEOs and had to make fuel stops esp. in the winter when DL's widebodies and AA's 321Ts could make westbound transcons nonstop.
third, DL was the first US carrier to fly a suite product in international service. The 321CEOs did not and still do not fly transoceanic flights.
fourth, the FAA has required that B6 staff the 321NEOs with a full Mint suite business class with an extra flight attendant above FAA minimum staffing and B6 has chosen not to do that so the doors are permanently locked open.
finally, the big 3 all intend to put A321NEOs on its premium transcon routes as a replacement for 757s and/or some widebodies so they will end up w/ a better product - including premium economy which sells well for all 3 - than B6.
and it is noteworthy that the 321XLR will be UA's only suite product - but it will be on a narrowbody while AA will have it on their 777Ws and new delivery 787s. DL already has more than 55 widebodies with suites with doors and will have more than 70 widebodies and how many other 321 transcons by the end of 2025 when AA will have some 777Ws in service with suites.
How about you give us all a Christmas gift and spend less time trying to prove me and other people wrong and more time accepting reality?
The statement was, “you and others simply cannot accept that DL remains the only US carrier with a business class suite product.”
Which is false as I’ve already pointed out. If you didn’t constantly lie, I wouldn’t have to always correct you. Also Hawaiian also has suites so clearly you’re incompetent and a liar.
Accept reality Tim, your statements are false.
you want to put caveats around definitions of Asia and United but can't stand to see them around the cherrypicked data that you use.
The original Mint product WAS NOT on all seats in business class.
The new Mint which is on ALL seats on the A321NEOs has the doors locked.
My statement is correct. And you once again would rather argue than have to face that you can only cherrypick in order to prove...
you want to put caveats around definitions of Asia and United but can't stand to see them around the cherrypicked data that you use.
The original Mint product WAS NOT on all seats in business class.
The new Mint which is on ALL seats on the A321NEOs has the doors locked.
My statement is correct. And you once again would rather argue than have to face that you can only cherrypick in order to prove your point even while you flat out lie about profitability and the size of each carrier in well-defined geographic regions.
I fully expected that you were incapable of acting like a halfway decent person and desist from your endless childish compulsion to prove me wrong because you are unable to admit that someone else is right and some other company can and does better than UA.
Thank you for confirming the tiny character that you are.
What caveat around Asia? The fact that South Asia is in Asia? Or the fact that Southeast Asia is in Asia? Only you are that dense and incompetent.
Air Canada is larger to Asia from Eastern Canada than Delta is from the Eastern US. Delta serves no routes from the Northeast to Asia unlike American or United. Delta doesn’t serve South Asia or Southeast Asia that is a fact that you can’t accept so I’ll...
What caveat around Asia? The fact that South Asia is in Asia? Or the fact that Southeast Asia is in Asia? Only you are that dense and incompetent.
Air Canada is larger to Asia from Eastern Canada than Delta is from the Eastern US. Delta serves no routes from the Northeast to Asia unlike American or United. Delta doesn’t serve South Asia or Southeast Asia that is a fact that you can’t accept so I’ll continue to repeat it.
“you want to put caveats around definitions but can't stand to see them around the cherrypicked data that you use.”
Do you need an example of the above statement?
(1)“The original Mint product WAS NOT on all seats in business class.
(2) The new Mint which is on ALL seats on the A321NEOs has the doors locked.”
What about Hawaiian? You forgot to make a caveat about their suite product as well.
You manifest your inner man child because others, not just me, can prove you wrong time after time. I’ll stick to the facts and data while you stick to your compulsive addiction to lie about them.
the fact that Asia is a massive continent and is subdivided into multiple groups of markets, not the least of which is how that region is served from the US. All current US carrier flights to the Middle East are served via the Atlantic.
East Asia is served via the Pacific.
You clearly want to argue that DL is indeed larger than UA from the eastern US to E. Asia. But DL is also...
the fact that Asia is a massive continent and is subdivided into multiple groups of markets, not the least of which is how that region is served from the US. All current US carrier flights to the Middle East are served via the Atlantic.
East Asia is served via the Pacific.
You clearly want to argue that DL is indeed larger than UA from the eastern US to E. Asia. But DL is also larger from the eastern US to Latin America and Europe.
how many 787s does HA have in service? B6 just might have more suites in their fleet than HA - but at least HA doesn't lock the doors.
no, you stick to lies and arguing because you can't stand to admit that DL really does a lot of things better than UA - and you can't stand to admit that, let alone that I am right.
YOU are the small little man whose world cannot see two people or companies both winning.
DL and UA are both winning right now. DL just happens to be winning more = by a whole lot of metrics. But UA is indeed winning.
Really guys, the comments section is increasingly becoming more and more annoying with all the useless discussions involving Tim. He has proven time and time again that he has serious issues and he simply doesn’t have the capacity to engage in a rational discussion whenever UA or DL is mentioned. Ben writes a lot of useful content and the comments section should be an extension of that, but it’s been anything but that. Really, why...
Really guys, the comments section is increasingly becoming more and more annoying with all the useless discussions involving Tim. He has proven time and time again that he has serious issues and he simply doesn’t have the capacity to engage in a rational discussion whenever UA or DL is mentioned. Ben writes a lot of useful content and the comments section should be an extension of that, but it’s been anything but that. Really, why can’t everyone just ignore him ? Yes, he will continue to lie, to bully, and to write 47383793378 lines every time DL is mentioned, but at least he will do it alone.
there are genuine facts that are being discussed and the way to prove me wrong is to come up with real facts.
You and others simply don't want to have a discussion that doesn't show YOUR TEAM in first place.
When people clearly define where each company leads and where the other lags and vice versa and other people are the ones that lie and misrepresent that data, it is not me with the problem.
Let the games continue....
you're such a loser, "tim". lol
It's amazing how you have such a view of yourself when everyone else sees you as a deluded idiot in his mom's basement lamenting how his own behavior got himself fired from Delta
That’s the point. He said it himself: “Ben and I have fun…”. “Let the games continue.” I really not sure if this is character that he created or if he really is that delusional. Either way, he’s got some serious mental issues, which is why I really think everyone should just ignore what he says.
and you contributed precisely what to the conversation, Eduardo?
The answer is clearly NOTHING.
You are more interested in what I do and throw insults than in contributing to the discussion at hand.
Just walk away from the conversation and quit throwing insults if you want to see less of me and other people.
You are your own worst enemy.
Agree, I don't believe he is Diamond and he obviously has a lot of free time on his hands.
He seems to think that what he does here can be called a “conversation”.
Extremely punchable face for Mr. Tiny Hands
https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airlines-vulnerable/
fraud is rampant on the internet.
Matthew has had a bug up his backside ever since he found out that I don't read or contribute to his site.
He actually came here to ask me so that he could confirm that the people who use my name on his site are not me.
As for the thesis of the article,
UA still has not settled with its FAs and will write a check...
fraud is rampant on the internet.
Matthew has had a bug up his backside ever since he found out that I don't read or contribute to his site.
He actually came here to ask me so that he could confirm that the people who use my name on his site are not me.
As for the thesis of the article,
UA still has not settled with its FAs and will write a check for a half billion dollars or more in retro payment when the AFA finally figures out how to do to UA what the APFA managed to do to AA.
And UA is doing as well as it is because they are no longer doing the stupid things with capacity that they did for over 5 years - before and after covid - which cost them hundreds of millions in profits. UA's own execs have said the days of aggressive growth over the Atlantic and Pacific are over - just as DL is receiving dozens of the most fuel efficient and most capable large widebodies in the US carrier industry.
And UA can thank its lucky stars that Boeing has been unable to deliver the aircraft that UA ordered. UA would not only be much deeper in debt but be depressing its own yields by aggressive growth which UA has said the industry cannot absorb.
And Matthew also proves the same capability to cherry pick since I have downgraded Delta and had buy recommendations on UA as well as AA and just about every other airline in the industry AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.
UA stock price up over 2x since you wrote your extremely biased WARNING article. Whoops.
Dude you’re a total fraud. Seriously on the Mt. Rushmore of laughingstocks across the travel blogs. Maybe give it a rest. Use whatever termination pay Delta gave you to go travel. Smart to do it in Y to make it last.
you prove how badly you need to cherrypick.
I would suggest that you read the article I wrote on Aug 11, 2024 entitled
"United Airlines Keeps Building A Better Business"
which has a buy rating.
On the day that I wrote the article, UAL was at $40. Today it is at $100.
Since you aren't good at math or logic, UAL stock has more than doubled since my most recent UAL...
you prove how badly you need to cherrypick.
I would suggest that you read the article I wrote on Aug 11, 2024 entitled
"United Airlines Keeps Building A Better Business"
which has a buy rating.
On the day that I wrote the article, UAL was at $40. Today it is at $100.
Since you aren't good at math or logic, UAL stock has more than doubled since my most recent UAL article or rating.
Lots of people made good money following my advice.
Of course, because your brain is too small to absorb that reality or admit that I am right, you still cling to year old information.
Airline industry index has doubled since then…nice try cuck
as expected, you can't admit that I made the right call on UAL - and you were wrong.
A monkey picking random stocks could have doubled its money last 2 years
well, no.
As usual, you confirm your ignorance.
market indices over the past two years have not doubled.
You can't admit that I am right so continually open your flap and simply make more of a fool of yourself with every additional post you make.
You reflect very well on United. Esp. in NYC
Why don’t they update the 767-300ER to match the 767-400ER product?
Why don’t they update the A330-200/300 to match the A330-900 product?
If they do this, they will have among the most well-rounded business class offerings.
Delta will upgrade the A330CEO fleet (-200s and -300s) with the same product as on the 330-900s. DL has released nothing saying which planes will be retrofitted but the 332 fleet is not going to be left out unless DL gets rid of them - which is possible. They are less economical to operate than the 764 so it is possible that DL will replace them with 339s. They won't remain in the fleet w/...
Delta will upgrade the A330CEO fleet (-200s and -300s) with the same product as on the 330-900s. DL has released nothing saying which planes will be retrofitted but the 332 fleet is not going to be left out unless DL gets rid of them - which is possible. They are less economical to operate than the 764 so it is possible that DL will replace them with 339s. They won't remain in the fleet w/ their current seats after the 333s have been retrofitted.
DL will have a fleet of at least 190 widebodies by the end of the decade and all but the 767-400s will have Delta One Suites which will be a ratio of at least 85% with Delta One suites.
Again, AA has plans to retrofit its 777Ws and take delivery of new 787-9s with suites but is not going to retrofit its fleet of 777-200ERs and may or may not have retrofitted its 787-8s/9s by the end of the decade.
And United has no plans so far to retrofit its widebodies or take delivery of new aircraft with a suite product.
"They are less economical to operate than the 764"
The A332 outsold the competing 764 nearly 18-to-1, so I'm going to suggest that that isn't true.
the A330 was and is more capable than the 764 and was a part of the 2nd best selling widebody family in the world.
NW bought them as a TPAC capable version and DL and NW used it on routes as far as DTW to Japan, a 14 plus hour flight.
The 764 was a stretched version of the 763 with an undersized wing.
Operating costs for the 332 are higher than for...
the A330 was and is more capable than the 764 and was a part of the 2nd best selling widebody family in the world.
NW bought them as a TPAC capable version and DL and NW used it on routes as far as DTW to Japan, a 14 plus hour flight.
The 764 was a stretched version of the 763 with an undersized wing.
Operating costs for the 332 are higher than for the 764. The 764 can be pushed to do 12 hour flights but does best on 10 hour flights and that is how DL and UA - the only two major operators - use it.
Further, DL has the same number of Delta one seats, one less premium select on the 764 but 16 more coach seats.
So, not only is the 332 heavier and burns more fuel but has fewer seats than the 764.
DL has given no indications of what it will do with the 332s but it would not be a surprise if they replaced them with larger and more economical aircraft. The 332s are 18-20 years old so have more life in them if DL finds the economics worth it. They are a few years younger than the 764 fleet.
If they remain, the 332s will also get whatever cabin updates are given to the 333s.
to add, the 330 CEO (either the -200 or -300) have 68,000 pound thrust class engines while the 764 has 60k pound class engines.
the 764 weighs about 40,000 pounds less than the 332 which explains the larger engines on the 332 and the higher fuel burn.
DL pays pilots on the 764 and 332 the same rates.
The 332 costs about the same to operate as the 330-300 but carries about 50 fewer passengers.
to add, the 330 CEO (either the -200 or -300) have 68,000 pound thrust class engines while the 764 has 60k pound class engines.
the 764 weighs about 40,000 pounds less than the 332 which explains the larger engines on the 332 and the higher fuel burn.
DL pays pilots on the 764 and 332 the same rates.
The 332 costs about the same to operate as the 330-300 but carries about 50 fewer passengers.
The 764 burns about the same amount of fuel as the smaller 767-300ER but carries about 20 more passengers.
It isn't hard to see that the economics of the 764 are superior to the 332.
The drawback of the 767 is its narrower cabin but if the 332 is going to be replaced with a larger and more fuel efficient 330, then the economics make sense to buy the larger, newer aircraft.
And the 764s will replace the 763 as the least desired widebodies and be used increasingly on domestic and leisure transatlantic routes while DL's TATL network will increasingly be operated by 330-300s and 339s, all of which will have reconfigured cabins.
While Ben's data is accurate, his statements about the usage of the fleet is not.
DL does not use its Delta One 757s on international flights; they are solely used right now on JFK and BOS transcons where they compete with other carrier non-suite narrowbodies and widebodies other than B6 Mint. The furthest east that DL flies the 757 is Iceland and those are on domestic configured aircraft.
In contrast, AA does not use narrowbodies...
While Ben's data is accurate, his statements about the usage of the fleet is not.
DL does not use its Delta One 757s on international flights; they are solely used right now on JFK and BOS transcons where they compete with other carrier non-suite narrowbodies and widebodies other than B6 Mint. The furthest east that DL flies the 757 is Iceland and those are on domestic configured aircraft.
In contrast, AA does not use narrowbodies over the Atlantic at all.
UA uses its 757s for flights as far as continental Europe.
As for widebodies, about 1/3 of DL's 767-300ERs are used on transcon flights where they, once again compete with AA A321Ts and UA's lowest standard configured narrowbodies and widebodies in the summer with international widebodies and domestic and international narrowbodies used in the winter. B6 uses Mint and domestic configured narrowbodies in markets where DL uses 767-300ERs.
DL also uses 767-300ERs to Hawaii where they compete with UA's business class with 2-4-2 where half of the seats do not have direct aisle access.
Basically less than 20% of DL wide bodies have the new seats, worse than I expected.
math is clearly not your forte.
Using the numbers Ben provided, 33% of DL's widebody fleet has Delta One suites on it.
More significantly, the 9 ex-Latam A350s are getting their mods now and DL will receive at least 14 additional aircraft between now and the end of 2025. Further, DL is retiring at least 6 767-300ERs and probably more than that.
So, DL's fleet will grow to around 185 widebody aircraft by the end...
math is clearly not your forte.
Using the numbers Ben provided, 33% of DL's widebody fleet has Delta One suites on it.
More significantly, the 9 ex-Latam A350s are getting their mods now and DL will receive at least 14 additional aircraft between now and the end of 2025. Further, DL is retiring at least 6 767-300ERs and probably more than that.
So, DL's fleet will grow to around 185 widebody aircraft by the end of 2025 or which 43% will have Delta One suites.
Remember, United and American have precisely ZERO aircraft that have suite products. United has announced no plans to put a suite product on any of its aircraft. American has announced plans to put suites on its new delivery 787s - which might number a half dozen by the end of 2025. They also will mod their dozen and a half 777-300ERs but who knows how many of those will have suites by the end of 2025. AA is unlikely to put sweets on its 4 dozen 777-200ERs and has announced no plans for
Realistically, of US carrier widebodies
AA has 0% business class suites now and could have about 20% by the end of 2025
DL has 33% business class suites now and will have 43% by the end of 2025.
UA has ZERO percent now and will have ZERO percent by the end of 2025.
AA has zero now and might have
Funny how you always post about the Delta of the future. In a few years they will have some nice planes.
Meantime in 2024 mostly hot trash. Keep frantically typing with those tiny hands.
and UA's operation in NYC is shrinking.
UA has the oldest fleet in the world and, specific to this article, not a single widebody aircraft with suites compared to DL which has over 55 now and that number will grow to near 75 by the end of next year - when UA will still have ZERO.
All you do by throwing dirt is create the environment for more of the same.
Again, yet another lie. Since 2019, UA is up double digits in EWR while DL is up single digits in JFK.
All you do by throwing dirt is create the environment for more of the same.
and United IN THE LAST YEAR is down.
UA's operation in NYC and at EWR is shrinking.
You keep throwing in caveats in an attempt to prove me wrong and simply prove that you are incapable of accepting reality.
Even with the perimeter restriction at LGA and a much higher percentage of RJs, DL carries 98% of the traffic that UA carries from NYC. And DL carries more LOCAL NYC passengers and connects less...
and United IN THE LAST YEAR is down.
UA's operation in NYC and at EWR is shrinking.
You keep throwing in caveats in an attempt to prove me wrong and simply prove that you are incapable of accepting reality.
Even with the perimeter restriction at LGA and a much higher percentage of RJs, DL carries 98% of the traffic that UA carries from NYC. And DL carries more LOCAL NYC passengers and connects less traffic through NYC.
and again, you love to tout how strong UA is in NYC and the growth at IAD - which is happening - while ignoring that DL's NYC and BOS operations operate alongside DL's massive ATL hub - which is why DL is by far the largest international airline on the east coast.
UA international is stronger on the west coast, DL is the strongest international carrier in the Midwest, AA is the strongest international carrier in the Southwest including Texas, and DL is the strongest on the east coast. UA doesn't have a single widebody international flight from the SE, the 2nd largest region of the US in terms of international capacity.
As much as you want desperately to see United as the end-all and be-all for the industry, actual facts and data show where not only UA stands in the US market but also where AA and DL stand. and UA's strength is much less widespread than you are willing to admit.
Lie and after lie after lie. Are you able to do anything else besides avoiding the truth?
UA carried more passengers in 2024 YTD out of NYC than in the first 8 months of 2023.
In relation to UA at NYC, DL is 20% passengers in flights, 22% smaller in passengers, and 25% smaller in ASMs. Not to mention DL is smaller at 3 airports combined than UA is at just one. Show me on...
Lie and after lie after lie. Are you able to do anything else besides avoiding the truth?
UA carried more passengers in 2024 YTD out of NYC than in the first 8 months of 2023.
In relation to UA at NYC, DL is 20% passengers in flights, 22% smaller in passengers, and 25% smaller in ASMs. Not to mention DL is smaller at 3 airports combined than UA is at just one. Show me on the doll where publicly available data showing Delta’s inferiority hurt you.
And yes DL is smaller not just in NYC but in the entire Northeast. And yes, Delta is the smallest legacy carrier in the Southwest to include Texas.
Delta will always be a number #2 player in the region looking up. Continue preaching your lies
Standard Delta marketing gimmick:
Market the a359 (the good ones)
Give the traveling public the crap 763
as usual, you are constipated.
To put it nicely.
Please list any flight that was sold as an A350-900 with Delta One suites up until and which was flown on the day of departure by a 767 of any variety or even an A350 that does not have Delta One suites.
It doesn't happen and you know it.
"Market the a359 (the good ones)
Give the traveling public the crap 763"
That statement doesn't make any sense.
I'm sure you can figure it out when you aren't out drinking on a Saturday night, "Tim"
It's just crazy that while usually 777 have 10 seats a row and 767 have 7 seats a row in economy, Delta fit in the same staggered 1-2-1 layout in business.
Huh?
Delta packs economy but you’re surprised they do aisle access with their ancient and dated coffin seat?
your statement is, once again, beyond laughable considering that AA and UA both have their 787s configured in 9 abreast economy and 10 abreast on their 777s - while DL's 767s and A330s produce wider seats on the very aircraft that don't have Delta One Suites. On the A330-900s, Delta not only has suites and ALSO has the widest seats in the US carrier widebody fleet.
Thank you for opening your mouth so the actual facts can be made known.
Look who spent his weekend obsessing over my comments and saying nothing in reply except the usual nonsense.
Me Living rent free in your head is still too expensive for you..
honestly i really appreciate Ben's commitment to trolling our favorite poaster
"PRODUCT CONSISTENCY DOESN'T MATTER!!!!1!!" - tim dunn
ALL DELTA PLANES HAVE DELTA ONE, even regional jets! World's best business class!
Hardly the “ World's best business class” TD, have you ever travelled with any other carrier so that you can make a truly informed decision?
Blind devotion to a brand is all very well, however, if Delta economy is the only flight category one has experienced, it would hardly be truly representative of the world’s business class products.
Our fake buddy, “tim”, the delta troll, also has people that like to use his fake username.
This isn’t something “they” posted
you are new around here, aren't you, areo?
This site is world famous for the cowards and frauds that frequent including trolls like mini brain that calls other people trolls when that is exactly what he does.
People are genuine and have earned the respect of fellow users have "Diamond" next to their name. The person that originated this sub-thread has the title "guest"
Even trolls get honored but they at least have...
you are new around here, aren't you, areo?
This site is world famous for the cowards and frauds that frequent including trolls like mini brain that calls other people trolls when that is exactly what he does.
People are genuine and have earned the respect of fellow users have "Diamond" next to their name. The person that originated this sub-thread has the title "guest"
Even trolls get honored but they at least have to use a consistent email address and register it at this site - which is why MaxPower gets the title "Diamond troll"
"Tim" calling others trolls is the ultimate in irony and hypocrisy. The guy who wanders around the blogosphere finding random nonsense to say about Delta and making stuff up...
you really do have the strangest and dumbest insults. But, you did reply well into your normal wasted happy hour time. I suppose it makes sense.
"party for 1, tim dunn, your yard of beer is ready?
You're being catfished.
May I have your attention, please?
May I have your attention, please?
Will the real Tim Dunn please stand up?
I repeat
Will the real Tim Dunn please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here
Answer is usually: not the one you're on :')
In all seriousness though, this is a helpful guide at a time when the DL fleet is so chaotic with J seats.
I think the A332/3's are still good (I have a bias with reverse herringbone layouts), but man, those 767s, they have GOT to retire. Even the 764s. They are embarrassing.