Actually, American ...
 

Actually, American Airlines' Pilots Union Is Right: Sorry, View From The Wing

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Posts: 71
 Mike
(@Mike)
Joined: 10 years ago

Gary is a clown who actually knows very little about the industry.


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Posts: 68
Platinum
(@funkyflapjak)
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Joined: 3 months ago

gary "libertarian" leff, is anti-union????? I'm shocked


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8 Replies
Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

(Libertarians... aka Republicans who are ashamed to admit they're Republicans.)


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Gold
(@michael-5)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 81

More like republicans who wish the republican party hadn't drifted so far from small-government conservatism.


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Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

(Suuure, Michael... that's the ticket... so, anyway, how'r you gonna spend your totally-happening, very-fiscally-responsible, definitely-not-a-bribe $5,000 'Trump dividend' check? Oh, and those DOGE and tariff checks should be 'in-the-mail' ...any-day-now. Come to think of it, when you also factor in his forcing of American companies like Intel to sell a 'golden share' to the government, he may actually be the most 'socialist' president in our lifetime. And, of course, he's a rabid nationalist. You could say, he's a national-so... ah, never mind.)


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Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

(Suuure, Michael... that's the ticket... so, anyway, how'r you gonna spend your totally-happening, very-fiscally-responsible, definitely-not-a-bribe $5,000 'Trump dividend' check? Oh, and those DOGE and tariff checks should be 'in-the-mail' ...any-day-now. Come to think of it, when you also factor in his forcing of American companies like Intel to sell a 'golden share' to the government, he may actually be the most 'socialist' president in our lifetime. And, of course, he's a rabid nationalist. You could say, he's a national-so... ah, never mind.)


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 Anon
(@Anon)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 20

Yes, almost all businesses try to remain “anti-union” (those meanies!) if they want to remain successful, long term, sustainable business. Doubt me? Please try starting a garment business or ship building business (among 100 other industries) in the U.S. and let me know when you make money……waiting…..


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Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

Anon, that's not even a good strawman. The 'nobody can make a profit if workers have rights' argument has been tired for a century. Besides, there are ample extremely profitable US Fortune top 50 companies that are already unionized. You ever heard of UPS, Kroger, Ford, GM, AT&T, Verizon? Within aviation, American, United, and others, are mostly unionized, and doing just fine. Meanwhile, Delta's flight attendants, baggage handlers, and maintenance technicians may have not yet organized, but their pilots and dispatchers have, for a while now. So, you're really not making the 'great point' you might think you are.


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 Anon
(@Anon)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 20

Thank you for acknowledging my point!


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Diamond
(@1990_)
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Posts: 1422

For 'acknowledging' that it was flawed... you're welcome?


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Posts: 16
 DM1
(@dm1)
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Joined: 3 months ago

need to get more popcorn 🙂


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Posts: 20
 Anon
(@Anon)
Joined: 2 years ago

Paying hundreds of pilots up to $500K, in fat and rigid union contracts, where they steal seats from loyal first/business class passengers (sometimes visibly!), in an industry where computers/AI will quickly (dirty secret: have already become) safer options….definitely not on the right side of the trend! So in that sense, yes, I do blame management for agreeing to such absurd union demands! With union mentality, always remember there is a fixed barrel of money, and there is a race to the bottom of the barrel to grab it while you can!


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4 Replies
 DBB
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(@dbb)
Joined: 8 months ago

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Posts: 39

Computers/AI can’t fly planes in fully integrated environments. Pilots are still vital.


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 Anon
(@Anon)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 20

It’s just not true, not keeping up with latest developments


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 DBB
Gold
(@dbb)
Joined: 8 months ago

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Posts: 39

And what, pray tell, are those developments?


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Platinum
(@alanz)
Joined: 8 months ago

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Posts: 108

Well, at least you don't think that Parker and Isom are/were overpaid.


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 DBB
Gold
(@dbb)
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Joined: 8 months ago

If one cannot see that Isom has failed at American over the last several years and that change is needed, regardless of what the union stance, I’m not sure what else that person needs to see.


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Posts: 23
 BBT
(@BBT)
Joined: 1 month ago

I won't be surprised if some day i find out both Gary and Ben went back and forth on this issue to drive up the blog views.


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4 Replies
Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

Naw, that'd be the 'fights on planes' and 'dogs on planes' and 'look at what this scantily clad passenger wore on a flight' stories...


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Platinum
(@alanz)
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Posts: 108

@1990
But, but, that makes money. Telling stories about a crap airline run by money grubbing thieves is like spending time with person who will not be named.


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(@Eskimo)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 6461

1990_ right.

They'd have to argue about a brawl on the plane and takes on a different side.

Like taking a side between the the guy who got taped to his seat vs a believer who cast miracle spells on this infidel.


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Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

*outrage*


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Posts: 346
(@jallan)
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Joined: 5 years ago

If Ben ever opens an OMAAT swag shop, we need a red hat that says MAAGA (Make American Airlines Great Again)!


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Posts: 37
 JR
(@JR)
Joined: 3 years ago

My eyes automatically pre-roll of their own accord whenever I see something Gary wrote.


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(@morno)
Joined: 4 years ago

Isom & AA management has problems but nothing pilots can't make worse.


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Posts: 8
 JP
(@JP)
Joined: 1 year ago

Gary and Ben's takes are not mutually exclusive. I'm not familiar with Gary writing anything complimentary about Isom although he does attribute some of Isom's failures to larger culture issues/board decisions.

But it is possible that the union statements are both true and positioning for negotiations - sometimes highlighting the truth is better than trying to spin things.


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Diamond
(@rebel)
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Joined: 1 year ago

Given historic income disparity, runaway executive pay even for poor performance and rampant corruption at the highest levels of our society you choose to attack unions? Anon & you should get a clue.


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Diamond
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1422

Well said, rebel. (Econ 101. Bah!)


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Posts: 1
(@McCoard)
Joined: 1 month ago

The American Airlines problem from the customer side is that the front line employees don't care. And they are happy to let is show

Customer has a problem - so what?
American flight arrives 90 minutes late and missed connections: Big Yawn.

We had an AA agent tell us "Well you should have flown ________ airlines, they would treat you better!"


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 Rob
(@Rob)
Joined: 2 months ago

Yes, this is nothing new from the APA and nothing new from the passenger perspective. The mere fact of early contract negotiations and the APA dialing down the rhetoric does not excuse the fact that dysfunction continues to exist post merge (2014-2015) between management and ALL labor groups, especially flight crew and maintenance.

Robert Isom has been an abysmal failure, but that shouldn't surprise anyone after following the footsteps of Doug Parker. Parker et all kicked the snowball down the hill while Scott Kirby sought greener pastures with UAL and others departed either by induced resignation or being collateral damage by ineptness.

AAL was eventually led down this path by the entire AAL BOD (yes the Board has their fingerprints on this) since Isom has been at the helm. There's so much more to the story here than the public realizes, but as mentioned and shown in this article, all one has to do is look at the AAL stock price post merge to present date. There is absolutely no love from Wall Street. People who believe the latest actions by Isom and AAL are showing a turn are extremely late to the dance and all partners have left the floor.

It was said many times by management using the following analogy: "IT'S LIKE A SHIP AT SEA MAKING A TURN BACK TO PORT. IT TAKES TIME."

Obviously this was referencing the airline "turning around". Well over a decade has passed and the ship has done so many turns they don't know where port is. Unfortunately, the post BK leadership of AAL has missed the most important mark to turn around: Their employees. Sad.


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Posts: 14
(@sushicat)
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Joined: 1 month ago

The union has every right, in fact obligation, to criticize a CEO who is damaging a company that employees people it represents. The union's criticism is right on and even mirrors criticism Gary makes. American doesn't need a few years and a new balance sheet to improve its performance. it needs a new leadership that can establish a new culture. There is no reason why that can't happen very quickly at a major US airline that is heavily unionized. It took Gordon Bethune only about one year at Continental.


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Posts: 1
(@Johhny)
Joined: 1 month ago

Ah, the great irony of pilots feeling let down given it was their support of Parker, Isom and the USAir team that allowed them to take the helm. And the pilots gave their support because they thought they'd make more money. I guess you guys screwed up?


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Posts: 400
(@Gary sucks)
Joined: 8 years ago

Gary is an Idiot! That pretty much sums it up.


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(@Peter Volny)
Joined: 11 years ago

Posts: 30

10 years of failure - perhaps the whole board should be replaced.


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Platinum
(@alanz)
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Joined: 8 months ago

AA's failure very closely mirrors that of Boeing. Both were led by incompetent management and "overseen" by a Board that was totally derelict in it's function of ensuring a properly run company. And neither would accept they severely damaged iconic companies.

Fortunately, AA's failures have not cost lives.


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