Its always interesting to learn about the internal politics between airline management and frontline employees, especially when it comes to staffing levels, since that can also impact the passenger experience.
10 total FAs on a widebody with 300 or fewer seats of which 6 serve the economy cabin is well within US airline industry staffing. It is also within industry standards for economy FAs to serve one aisle all the way front and back. It is actually harder to serve just sections of economy if FAs have to go back to the galley to restock the carts whether it be for food or beverages.
Based on some early load factor data which has been posted on other sites, AS' LFs trail DL's on a number of routes.
all of this just simply highlights how difficult it is for an airline to transition to a new business model esp. in competitive markets
add in that AS' financials are weak right now even before joint labor contracts have been signed and the Hawaiin merger is settling up to look very much like the Virgin America acquisition for AS
"Based on some early load factor data which has been posted on other sites, AS' LFs trail DL's on a number of routes."
and delta trails AS on nearly every yield measurement out of SEA except to DL hubs. Your point?
Tim, it seems like friction between Alaska and Hawaiian crews as they still sort out that merger. Besides, those Pacific routes, especially to Japan, have a heightened expectation of service. Personally, I'd like to return to Japan and try both D1 at SEA, one-way, and this beautiful new AS 787 the other way, at some point.
Amazing. Not a single mention of Delta in the article, and you still contorted yourself into mentioning Delta. Truly outstanding work.
How do you see "both sides"? Its not like there isn't a trove of data about how to staff a 787 with 266 seats.
@ Rob -- Sorry, you're agreeing with which side here? Ultimately staffing levels aren't just based on data, but are also based on the collective bargaining agreements that work groups have.
Ben, let's face it, some on here only care about so-called 'data' because they can then selectively 'interpret' it to fulfill their personal biases (How many times have we heard the equivalent of...my opinions are 'facts'; your opinions are 'wrong'). Most of these 'debates' on topics like this involve both 'quantitative' and 'qualitative' metrics, which can be 'subjective.' That said, I think passengers experiences do still matter and are not mere 'anecdotes' to be ignored. (Now, someone please call me a silly name and ignore all of what I've said.)
Really that have hours to complete the service. You would think they were trying to do a hot meal service in coach flying LGA to ORD. Which BTW was the coach service 40 years ago. Sounds like they want more sit in the jump seat and play on phone time versus being in the aisles doing a service time. Their job.
Does anyone know how many FAs United staffs on its new premium 787s? Flew this plane from SIN the other day and was surprised how many FAs there were- at least in biz
Wait, FAs are complaining about how rough they have it? Well, this is a first.
I’m sure they would be demanding everything that is claimed to be offered if they were the paying passenger. Hypocrites
Go the way of Delta…… Non Union.
I’ve flown the 789 from LHR to SEA. I’m not sure what they are complaining about. There was plenty of galley time and they disappeared for most of the flight except in the service windows. No offers of premium class refills or otherwise.
I can’t help but feel there is an entitled attitude from HA to AS cultures. Several HA FAs have said to me they didn’t want AS services as they would have to do more on a flight. (HA had a single service from the mainland to HI, AS has 2).
I just don’t see what the complaint is here except wanting möre break time to chit chat.
I have really not felt more welcome or Aloha on HA branded flights. Regardless, some AS have not done PDBs either.
ASHA definitely has some FA Labour strife.
Very sensitive topic. On one hand my experience with service on US airlines is not fantastic. On the other hand, it is sometimes obvious with international airlines (specifically very service-focused ones) that cabin crew is struggling with running the flight per very demanding standard procedures.
Too many seats on too-large aircrafts . The 707 never had such problems , and the FAs were cozy .
Time to take one for the team @Ben and fly a 10hr+ segment in Economy. I was tempted to buy one earlier on a MCO-SEA-ICN-HKG (with the last segment on Asiana) for only $430 one-way but chickened out.
Cry me a river you unappreciative blahhhhhh
They probably want more money….. stop complaining, you have a job that you sit on your butt for hours and get paid well in comparison to other jobs which don’t require education or a brain and have to screw up badly to get fired.
How about they get paid minimum wage plus tips. I’m sure services would change then. I know plenty of people that would happily take a job on Alaska for 20 bucks an hour, just to have a job.
I agree!
If they don't like it, leave the US of A!
There are plenty of people willing to be crapped on for penies!
This is fundamentally coming down to how these new services are impacting their crew rest. Historically HA flew mainly Asia pacific for long haul and offered the fewest services in coach. Now that they’re adjusting to more services on Europe it’s going to shorten their rest breaks. I get it, working US to Europe flights in the summer are brutal. Passengers on these routes are a lot and it’s much more demanding than an overnight flight from Hawaii to Japan. For a point of comparison DL staffed their legacy 333 with 6 FAs in coach with a count of 259 and we still managed to complete all the required services and get a decent rest period if we were willing to hustle. Alaska’s 789 staffing is standard with US carriers, they just need to get used to the passenger dynamics on the new routes and acclimate to the added services.
I recently flew LHR to SEA return in premium economy. Both ways the service was great though the food was a bit plain compared to other European airlines. The one thing I heard from the staff both ways was they found flying to Europe very tiring and didn't get much rest. One of them was also saying that they didn't expect to be having to do Europe flights but were required to.
The amount of work they must be putting in handing out that cookie, the horror!
Please do tell them explicitly how you REALLY feel, preferably before accepting said cookie (or beverage). Then, eat and drink up! Yum!
I hope these crews receive the relief they're asking for, as soon as possible. As passengers, we should want airlines to better support their people. Keep in mind, most of Alaska's bases are in higher cost of living areas, and this airline has undergone a rapid expansion (new aircraft, new long-haul international destinations, and a continued merger with Hawaiian crews). So, while they did ratify a new contract in 2025, some of it really may need to be revisited. Wishing them the best!
Why should we want that as employees. Shouldn’t we want them to do whatever they can to lower costs so they can make our travel more affordable from a logical perspective?
I find that the FAs without seniority deliver way better service on average and they can’t win bids for these flights. Shouldn’t we be wanting to support them? It will lower costs and improve service.
I think it's a misconception that lower labor costs translate to lower ticket prices for us. Usually, it just widens airline margins while the passenger experience suffers. I’d rather see airlines run a well-supported, reliable operation. When crews aren't set up for failure, the product is better and flights run much more smoothly for everyone on board.
I traveled the Alaska FCO-SEA route last month and chatted with the flight attendants working business class at the conclusion of service. My feedback and question to them was around the topic of service flow. Almost every airline has a similar service flow to business class service, but in the case of Alaska, they seem to have decided to 'rewrite the playbook'. Ordering was a scramble, drinks were out of sequence with courses, drink refills were ill timed, and course flow was lengthy. From what the FAs shared, legacy Hawaiian had a fairly solid service flow but Alaska decided to change things without looking at how other carriers operate and/or solicit crew feedback. Frustration was high as clearly they felt they knew how to deliver from prior experience.
I take SEA-ICN pretty frequently and have experiences on both J and Y on the Dreamliners. I haven't really noticed a huge gap in service between them and other airlines, and I always thought it was good. I guess I'm pretty forgiving with service though
I can't help to think it's a difference between HA and AS culture changes from top-down that they might not be used to
Having flown SEA-LHR and back in economy I can confirm there was no gold recognition given. While my family and I were happy with the quality of service, the FAs working the flight never stopped moving. I hope Alaska’s delayed response isn’t due to their desire to try and make routes with low load factors profitable. They know by now that a positive customer experience drives loyalty, and should trust their people and either make changes to the flow, change the crew rest timing to allow for increased staffing during peak service times, or add staffing.
When you say no gold recognition given, are you talking about during boarding? Or while onboard?
It’s telling that even as a passenger, you could see the crew was constantly moving. Sounds like the tension isn't about crew 'laziness,' but about an airline trying to squeeze premium-level service out of a lean, domestic-style staffing model. Hope Alaska can sort this out better, soon.
No idea what the issue is really but TUI have I believe 8 attendants for upto 345 pax, including premium cabin.
Their service is superb!
It is probably the lazy / give me / entitled / etc. American culture of pay me the most, but continuously expect less productivity.
I would think it would be almost impossible to replace human being as flights with AI or robots, but at least in areas of the colony you can……they show up too work, are productive and don’t complain or file lawsuits and grievances outside maintenance or upgrades.
I agree with you, Florida. The crew and their union need to do some expectation management. This is now the job. If it's too much for them to handle anymore, then bid for non-787 trips. They trap is that they love how fast the long haul hours stack up every month, but then actually expecting them to run service flow to company policy? Horror! It's actually hard work! Get a grip, granny. Would you rather be working endless interisland shuttle flights all day, every day?
How do other airlines that fly the 787 staff their economy sections?
Presumably their cabin crews are happy to come to work and do their jobs according to company policy, and don't adopt a spoilt brat attitude of hating anything that makes them get off their asses.
UA staffs their 787-9s coach cabin with 5 FAs (21 Premium Plus/188 Econ) and 4 FAs (35 PP, 123 Econ). Before adding Premium Plus, the -9 was originally staffed with 7 with the larger coach cabin.
Other legacy US carriers are not providing the same level of main cabin service that Alaska is providing.
Qantas staffs as follows on 787-9
J - 4 FA (42 pax)
Prem Eco - 2 FA (28 pax)
Eco - 4 FA (166 pax)
I think 6 FA for the AS Eco config is pretty industry average.