At the moment, perhaps the most interesting airline “battle” in the United States is between American and United at Chicago O’Hare Airport (ORD). While both airlines have hubs there, the dynamics have changed. A decade ago, American had the advantage, while United has been growing there considerably ever since, putting American into a distant second place position.
American now wants to reclaim market share in Chicago, so it’s adding a lot of flights, which in turn, is causing United to add flights as well. United CEO Scott Kirby has indicated that he’s “drawing a line in the sand,” and will not allow American to grow its market share percentage at the airport any further. Kirby also insists that United’s growth in Chicago is profitable, while American will likely lose $1 billion in Chicago in 2026.
Along those lines, here are the latest comments about the Chicago situation, from another United executive…
In this post:
United CFO mocks American’s “temporary” Chicago hub
United CFO Michael Leskinen spoke at the Barclays 43rd Annual Industrial Select Conference this week. In addition to making some interesting comments about airline mergers, he also talked about the battle that’s brewing in Chicago, as flagged by View from the Wing.
He was asked questions by Barclays Analyst Brandon Oglenski about the situation in Chicago:
“Well, Mike, there’s been a little bit of maybe a dust up, if you want to call it that, in hometown Chicago between you and another airline that maybe has a hub there. Can you talk to us about some context of what’s occurred here and…”
Leskinen responded by saying:
“Temporarily, they have a hub.”
So he was asked to speak about United’s perspective on Chicago, and how this is all going to play out. Leskinen responded as follows:
“It’s our hometown. I mean this is where we’re headquartered. This is where a lot of the brand loyal customers were winning corporate customers, my neighborhood, everybody is switching from American to United and they’re doing it because we have a differentiated product, we have differentiated service. And so yes, there’s a lot of capacity being added to Chicago, but not all capacity is created equal. And so not only do we have a better hard product, but we have the schedule and we have the connectivity, we have the clubs.”
“So they can fly around some empty airplanes, and there is some gate calculus around that. And so that puts us in a spot where for the long term, we have to protect our gate positions. It’s going to be a modest impact to our level of profitability. We’ve given you guidance. I gave you an update in guidance today. So you can see that it’s not leaving much of a mark at this time. So I feel really confident in our strategy. We are making money in Chicago. We made a nice profit last year in Chicago. The other guy that’s adding so much capacity is not. There’s pretty good math out there. You can create with public data to get at that. And so really, you should talk to them. It’s an irrational strategy to accelerate their losses.”
United also released a brutal presentation about the relative competitive situation in Chicago, as shared by JonNYC. As you can see, United claims it’ll continue to be profitable in Chicago, while it predicts American will lose $952 million at the airport in 2026.
United management is doing a great job, but…
United’s management team deserves a ton of credit for all the changes they’ve made in recent years. I have huge respect for Kirby, and think he’s one of the all-around best airline CEOs. It’s fantastic to see an airline that’s so focused, with such a clear vision for what it wants to be.
Now, we know that United is trying to increasingly move into Delta’s league financially, and the airline has made good progress. Admittedly the airline still has a long way to go, because when you take out United’s roughly $1 billion annual labor advantage (due to contracts not having been ratified yet), United is basically right between American and Delta when it comes to profitability.
All that being said, I have to say, the extent to which United management talks smack is a little unbecoming, in my opinion. It’s of course great to be able to lay out your vision and strategy (something American management could learn a thing or two about), but you can do that without coming across as a jerk, in my opinion.
For example, calling American’s hub in Chicago “temporary,” really? Even in its second place spot, American very much has a hub in Chicago, and will continue to have a hub in Chicago, even if things stay as they are now. Or to reference how American can “fly around some empty airplanes?” Is that necessary?
United management basically talks as if they’re on a reality TV show, in terms of seeing how much shade they can throw at competitors. Admittedly United management has accomplishments to be proud of, but I think many of us could do without the hubris.
What makes this whole situation so sad is that American management just isn’t able to lay out its vision, so it almost makes United’s narration of what’s going on a bit more pathetic. They’re basically kicking someone while they’re already down, and then bragging about it and calling them names.
Nothing would make me happier than to see American actually putting up a fight again, and being a formidable competitor to United. But that’s simply not happening until there are some major changes.
Anyway, it’ll be a very interesting year in Chicago. United executives claim American will lose $1 billion in Chicago, while American executives insist it won’t be nearly that bad. So let’s see where the numbers actually fall. American’s CEO insists that 2026 will be a better year financially, so if the airline does lose anywhere close to $1 billion in Chicago, that doesn’t have great implications.
Bottom line
2026 is a year where American and United are battling it out in Chicago, as American tries to gain market share, and United tries to defend its position. There’s no denying that United has the upper hand, though it’s anyone’s guess how bad the situation really is for American (in terms of United executives claiming that American will lose $1 billion there this year).
One thing I can’t help but comment on is the endless trash talking from United executives about American. In the latest example of this, United’s CFO has said that Chicago is a “temporary hub” for American, and that American will simply “fly around some empty airplanes.” Of course this is only the latest example of this kind of talk — in the past, United’s CEO has also said that American is totally cooked, and has no chance of succeeding.
What do you make of this Chicago situation, and the comments of United’s CFO?
@Ben, if you think this is new, you haven't been in aviation very long. This type of competitor bantering goes way back. Herb Kelleher, Bob Crandall, Frank Lorenzo, Gordon Bethune, Frank Borman, etc. This approach has two purposes, 1) Fire up the employees. Let them think they're in a battle, be proud of their accomplishments, and striving to do better to take the advantage. 2) Put the competition on notice, they are in a battle....
@Ben, if you think this is new, you haven't been in aviation very long. This type of competitor bantering goes way back. Herb Kelleher, Bob Crandall, Frank Lorenzo, Gordon Bethune, Frank Borman, etc. This approach has two purposes, 1) Fire up the employees. Let them think they're in a battle, be proud of their accomplishments, and striving to do better to take the advantage. 2) Put the competition on notice, they are in a battle. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's just words.
And then there's Tim. I can't believe he brought up again how many destinations that DL serves in East Asia, compared to UA in ORD. DL wasn't discussed, nor was DTW/MSP, nor was East Asia, nor the number of destinations served vs DL, since the conversation is about AA and UA. Can you just ban him for good like everyone else has?
American brought a knife, so United brought a gun. That's the Chicago Way.
and DL and WN are using strategic nuclear weapons on other parts of UA's network.
It really is not all about Chicago as much as you want to believe.
It is all about Chicago. It's where I was born. It's where I graduated from its world-class university. It's where I live. Chicago is therefore the only place that matters. Now go back to sucking off Ed Bastian, you Biscoff-breathed degenerate.
It’s important to consider who the smack talk is aimed at.
(Hint: the possibility of Wall Street pressure on AA to stop losing money in Chicago…)
I think it's funny. Not unbecoming at all.
UA roasted Southwest in Denver for years, and duly demolished Southwest there - one provokes UA at their peril.
first, WN became the largest local domestic carrier at DEN after its rapid buildup post 9/11 when the legacies - including UA - were losing boatloads of money and were largely in chapter 11. The fact that WN achieved what it did in a historic UA hub shows how UA has done exactly what AA did.
second, WN still has about 30% traffic share in DEN and higher in the local market; it connects fewer...
first, WN became the largest local domestic carrier at DEN after its rapid buildup post 9/11 when the legacies - including UA - were losing boatloads of money and were largely in chapter 11. The fact that WN achieved what it did in a historic UA hub shows how UA has done exactly what AA did.
second, WN still has about 30% traffic share in DEN and higher in the local market; it connects fewer passengers than UA does. UA has clawed back alot of share it lost but done so by building their hub far more than taking share from WN.
and third, let's see how WN's share does not just in DEN but across their network as their assigned seats and checked bags initiatives roll out. and if WN moves forward w/ a domestic first class cabin as expected, they will be a much more attractive carrier for a lot of business people that have not been willing to fly WN.
and, finally, UA has trash talked multiple competitors in multiple hubs. There simply is on way they can win all of these contests. If ORD is their sole focus, then it simply makes it easier for WN to grow at DEN. If UA splits its attention between a whole bunch of initiatives, then they are likely to fail to grow their position in any of them.
As if a connecting hub is not an enormous advantage. Too funny.
DEN market share
Nov 2019:
UA+OO: 39%
SW: 29%
Nov 2025:
UA+OO: 50%
SW: 31%
thank you for making my point.
WN has not lost share.
UA has simply grown the size of the DEN airport operation.
WN is still a very sizeable carrier at DEN.
And you still can't grasp that UA cannot fight battles at DEN vs. WN and AA at ORD and generate DL-comparable margins - even if they paid their people the same as AA, DL and WN.
UA's incessant need to try to win...
thank you for making my point.
WN has not lost share.
UA has simply grown the size of the DEN airport operation.
WN is still a very sizeable carrier at DEN.
And you still can't grasp that UA cannot fight battles at DEN vs. WN and AA at ORD and generate DL-comparable margins - even if they paid their people the same as AA, DL and WN.
UA's incessant need to try to win against everyone except for DL makes them highly vulnerable to other carrier competitive attacks and mostly from DL - which is much more measured but, when it strikes, it wins. DL has very few disadvantages to UA but the most notable is west coast to Asia and DL is and will continue to methodically narrow that gap while UA fights with everyone under the sun in every other market.
DL is the biggest beneficiary of UA's stupidity
All evidence to the contrary. UA is growing their fleet and profitability while paying down debt and getting numerous debt rating upgrades. And how about their industry-leading operational performance and NPSs are soaring.
And at what opportunity cost? 2% profit margin in 2024.
https://visualapproach.io/painful-end-to-a-53-year-streak/
AA has a better hard and soft product - UA foods is awful, and domestic first class and Polaris seats are cramped compared to AA's and Flagship. However, UA is far ahead in customer service and employee morale
Charlie says, "AA has a better hard (product)"
Do tell.
United's "Signature Interior" features seatback entertainment systems with Bluetooth connectivity, power outlets at every seat, and larger overhead bins designed to accommodate a roller bag for each passenger is 70% complete and Starlink coming.
AA?
Widebody Business Class Seat Product
American Airlines 133 wide body aircraft
Collins Super Diamond: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8, Boeing 787-9
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 787-9
Safran Cirrus II:...
Charlie says, "AA has a better hard (product)"
Do tell.
United's "Signature Interior" features seatback entertainment systems with Bluetooth connectivity, power outlets at every seat, and larger overhead bins designed to accommodate a roller bag for each passenger is 70% complete and Starlink coming.
AA?
Widebody Business Class Seat Product
American Airlines 133 wide body aircraft
Collins Super Diamond: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8, Boeing 787-9
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 787-9
Safran Cirrus II: Boeing 777-300ER
Safran Concept D: Boeing 777-200ER, Boeing 787-8
United Airlines 207 int'l wide body aircraft
Safran Optima: Boeing 767, Boeing 777, Boeing 787
Elevate Ascent: Boeing 789s (March 2026)
Perhaps you could, at least, pretend not to be a United employee, Rebel?
Starlink doesn't exist on the UA mainline fleet at this point -- AA has had high speed wifi on every mainline plane for years now.
United still flies the CRJ-200 everywhere out of ORD, AA is entirely dual-class RJs in ORD now.
United "signature interior" is a great marketing tool when it's there but it isn't. It's still very...
Perhaps you could, at least, pretend not to be a United employee, Rebel?
Starlink doesn't exist on the UA mainline fleet at this point -- AA has had high speed wifi on every mainline plane for years now.
United still flies the CRJ-200 everywhere out of ORD, AA is entirely dual-class RJs in ORD now.
United "signature interior" is a great marketing tool when it's there but it isn't. It's still very common to see an old Jetblue style tv on an old Continental 737
But sure. United has more widebodies. American has far more narrowbodies and dual class RJs. United's regional feed relies on the Crj-200 and they just re-upped that contract with skywest
well said, Julie.
and UA really does not have that large of an international operation on a year round basis at ORD.
DL flies to more cities in E. Asia from both DTW and MSP than UA does from ORD.
Actually, UA has started putting Starlink on mainline aircraft and it is accelerating. High speed? Too funny.
Exactly. AA has way better WiFi, both domestically and internationally. I don't care about IFE as I always have my laptop and am working, so I guess it depends on what matters most to you. United CRJs don't have power outlets unlike AA. I give UA a big leg up for international route network out of ORD (plus partners), as AA essentially only flies to LHR now, but still, for me, AA wins over UA every time.
Charlie says, "United CRJs don't have power outlets"
That's incorrect.
All UAX two class RJs have power outlets in first class and nearly half of them have power outlets in economy. More importantly, All UAX two-class RJs except for six CRJ 550s now have Starlink wifi, and their NPSs have doubled since it was installed.
I know people's sentiments towards United's speech but honestly it's the roasts like these that garner the most attention. There wouldn't have been as many blogs making multiple posts about an earnings call if there wasn't this much content to cover. Part of the problem is that our society just picks up on clickbait content more.
and yet the race is not in the hearts and minds of social media. It is for paying passengers and profits. AA and UA and every other US airline are for profit companies.
UA is making moves that are dumber and dumber just so they can cripple competitors. UA will lose money flying CRJ 550s - the smallest and most costly aircraft per seat in the US airline fleet - from cities that are too...
and yet the race is not in the hearts and minds of social media. It is for paying passengers and profits. AA and UA and every other US airline are for profit companies.
UA is making moves that are dumber and dumber just so they can cripple competitors. UA will lose money flying CRJ 550s - the smallest and most costly aircraft per seat in the US airline fleet - from cities that are too close to ORD to have any local traffic just so UA can boost the number of flights it operates, in hopes that it will make AA even smaller at ORD.
It is childish, irrational thinking that is damaging to AA and UA and provides nothing of long term benefit for consumers.
DL stays out of it and makes even more money as the real vulnerable carriers retreat from DL hubs and DL grows. Look at DL's growth relative to its competitors and see how much larger DL is relative to B6 and NK at BOS, DTW and JFK. DL is doing what UA could only wish it could achieve.
As usual you don’t understand the game being played. AA has been using their smallest aircraft to retain gates per the ORD agreement. UA is now using even smaller, more appropriately sized aircraft to do the same. As the data shows UA’s ORD network is far more developed and effective/profitable, but nice try.
yes, we ALL understand what is going on - except for you.
UA thinks it can keep adding money-losing flights so it can gain more gates and push AA out.
Nobody has argued that UA isn't in the lead. The question is whether UA can achieve its goal of pushing AA's hub out of ORD - and no one other than UA employee apologists hiding under their desks in Willis Tower believe that is possible or realistic
If you think adding 50 Seaters is less advantageous than 76 Seaters in a fight for gates at ORD where allocation is based on # of departures then you don't "understand." Yikes!
Yes, United is Chicago’s “hometown”, yet it keeps flirting with moving HQ to Denver. I’m sure it won’t take much of a tax break to get them to relocate.
factor in the cost of remaining in Chicago just so it can "win" this argument and it is AA that will come out smelling like roses.
Colorado just lost a major IT company HDQ to Florida. They want a win.
UA has no leverage in this war if they move their HDQ out of IL
The smack talk is almost entertaining in that United never refers to the labor advantage it has due to unresolved contracts when it talks smack about American or Delta. Also of interest and note, when was the last time you heard any smack coming out of the mouth of Ed Bastian or any Delta exec. They don't need to. They run a very good operation and make a ton of money - and that's with...
The smack talk is almost entertaining in that United never refers to the labor advantage it has due to unresolved contracts when it talks smack about American or Delta. Also of interest and note, when was the last time you heard any smack coming out of the mouth of Ed Bastian or any Delta exec. They don't need to. They run a very good operation and make a ton of money - and that's with top of the industry wages for all EE groups. Maybe Kirby - et al - needs to do less smack talking, get the contracts ratified and then get on a level playing field with AA and DL when it comes to earnings. That’s when I'll pay attention to UA's earnings with a bit more interest.
I wish UA execs would let their performance speak for them, but most of what they have said and predicted has been pretty close to the mark.
What I love is how these social media purveyors mischaracterize and amplify what is said for click bait while simultaneously trying to claim the moral high ground. I think the word is chutzpah. Take a look in the mirror.
DL has spoken very little about the failure of low cost competitors and yet they have benefitted the most. DTW and BOS as well as JFK are undoubtedly much more profitable for DL than UA could ever hope for from any of their hubs because of B6 and NK.
in fact, DL HAS benefitted the most from the failure of the low cost sector. UA loves to talk big but has yet to deliver.
...DL has spoken very little about the failure of low cost competitors and yet they have benefitted the most. DTW and BOS as well as JFK are undoubtedly much more profitable for DL than UA could ever hope for from any of their hubs because of B6 and NK.
in fact, DL HAS benefitted the most from the failure of the low cost sector. UA loves to talk big but has yet to deliver.
that is why they keep talking louder and making more ridiculous statements because it is clear they are not winning.
you just don't like that there are people that can really see through UA's - and your - incessant non-sense.
and UA will lose a huge amount of money flying a bunch of empty CRJ550s from IND, MKE and other cities to ORD just so they can push their departure count to 750 flights/day and they will won't have a hub that generates as much revenue as DL does at ATL or AA has at DFW - or even AA at CLT.
All evidence to the contrary. United is hitting on all cylinders. It's just a matter of time.
and yet you can't or won't debate the actual facts that are presented.
UA can't stand that someone else is not on the verge of failure to help UA out and yet, as noted above, DL is a better run company and airline and they don't trash talk the competition
NYC market share, DL MRO, NickW, Riyadh Air, 2031, etc. Too funny.
this is more of the UA strategy of trying to pick a fight with everyone except for DL - which UA knows it cannot beat - while manufacturing manipulated data to argue how well they are doing while claiming how bad their competitors are doing.
AA and WN have both made major missteps but are both expecting to see significant financial improvements in 2026, in part because of failures among low cost carriers, esp. B6...
this is more of the UA strategy of trying to pick a fight with everyone except for DL - which UA knows it cannot beat - while manufacturing manipulated data to argue how well they are doing while claiming how bad their competitors are doing.
AA and WN have both made major missteps but are both expecting to see significant financial improvements in 2026, in part because of failures among low cost carriers, esp. B6 and NK, both of which have benefitted DL more than any other carrier. AA is next in line with benefits from failed low cost competition. F9 and WN are UA's biggest low cost competitors and WN esp. is turning things around.
UA seems deathly afraid that AA can actually figure out how to dig itself out of the mess that it has been in for years and be able to sustain even some level of subsidy for ORD = nowhere near $500 million/year let alone the $1 billion that UA thinks AA will lose.
the bottom line is that UA seems to think that it can engage in a dozen initiatives across its network to knock off competitors but it is highly unlikely it can do that and obtain profits even close to DL's - which is far less focused on market share and far more about profitability.
add in the labor cost advantage which UA has to correct - its employees are going to wake up someday and realize they are only hurting themselves for helping their company execs' ego - and it is so refreshing to see Ben say that UA will be right in the middle of AA and DL and probably about on par w/ WN on an apples to apples financial basis.
UA simply cannot pick a million battles with every competitor other than DL, pay its people more, and deliver better financial results than they are generating now.
Since UA is led by a bunch of testosterone-laden children, UA will try and the biggest beneficiary will be DL that will continue to grow in the areas where UA has had the advantage - notably East and South Asia and the Middle East.
All evidence to the contrary.
I agree with your point on how UA profits are exaggerated given the incoming labor contract. However, I haven't seen any evidence in recent years that United is attacking WN or F9. F9 seems to already be lessening the pressures on DEN without United's influence already.
Twit, the tie up with JetBlue will irritate Delta.
Do you think before you type?
Addicts never think before chasing their next hit.
The moral of this fight is don’t fly to/from/via ORD for the foreseeable future. With the construction and added capacity it’s going to be a mess. A real mess.
One more time: Outside of niche travel blogs… no one cares about this because it isn’t actually amounting to lower fares. The ‘turf-war’ is astroturf so far. Wake me up when there’s real deals to be hand there. Like, 60K points for TATL in J! Okie dokie, that’d be sumthin!
You should fly more than delta. That type of deal is rather common with Aadvantage
The adjective "Admittedly" is yucky.
The adverb "Admittedly" ...
I have been an AA Exec Plat for 25 years and (largely) a big fan of the company during that time. My loyalties are waning and shifting though. Yes the benefits have been reduced (frequently discussed in this forum) but the real reason is the demise of their inflight experience. Rickety/dated seats, rushed food service, cheap wines, tacky amenity kits, surly staff. Leadership took their eyes off the ball. Bean counters took the wheel. There’s...
I have been an AA Exec Plat for 25 years and (largely) a big fan of the company during that time. My loyalties are waning and shifting though. Yes the benefits have been reduced (frequently discussed in this forum) but the real reason is the demise of their inflight experience. Rickety/dated seats, rushed food service, cheap wines, tacky amenity kits, surly staff. Leadership took their eyes off the ball. Bean counters took the wheel. There’s no room for complacency now. It’s do or die.
Wait you just described Air Canada
This. A million times this. Same.
It's unnecessary for sure. But I also don't see how it's unviable for ORD to sustain a dual hub (triple if MDW is factored in for Chicago).
Delta is the most profitable airline out there and plays 2nd place in SEA the same way AA is 2nd at ORD, so I don't see why AA can't succeed either.
From a Chicago native, it’s exhausting. Kirby is a jerk.
it really does come across as a lack of confidence in their own strategy when United continues to talk smack like this.
It really does start to seem like they're quite nervous about the AA strategy in ORD when they keep talking like this trying to get the Street to do something about it since they seem unable to?
But then again, United's entire summer strategy to 700+ departures per day is 9x...
it really does come across as a lack of confidence in their own strategy when United continues to talk smack like this.
It really does start to seem like they're quite nervous about the AA strategy in ORD when they keep talking like this trying to get the Street to do something about it since they seem unable to?
But then again, United's entire summer strategy to 700+ departures per day is 9x per day on the CRJ-200 on ORD-GRB (it's not all on the CRJ-200 but that's all United really did in their latest growth announcement). At some point local customers are going to realize United is the only local carrier using the CRJ to build boost numbers to look good.
I like UA but maybe stop building your network on the backs of your worker pay then come back and talk smack.
This is it right here. It’s classic bully talk, rather than letting their performance speak for itself. If they really think AA is so mismanaged, why bother saying anything at all? Let AA run themselves into the ground.
In all honesty the smack talk is less about United and more about us as a society now. Social media, popular culture, conspiracy theorists, news media, and of course a deranged President have all been a part in normalizing this behavior. Meanwhile, being polite seems to conjure up perceptions of weakness.
These are hard times for a Gentleman.
"Smack talk", competition, arrogance and cockiness have been around since the beginning of time. It may not be normal for your inner circle, but it's certainly been apart of others for thousands of years.
And doing so doesn't make someone, "not a gentleman" or less of a person. Competition is great, it forces better ideas, products and people.
I agree "smack talk" has been around since the beginning. However, smack talk has been more prevalent in non-entertainment industries after the 2000s. With the rise of short form content, having roasts just seems to be the easiest way to garner attention.
@Antwerp
So very true.
I say again: If they continue on their current trajectory, American might not exist in 4 years. Oneworld partners better cosy up with Alaska, especially Cathay Pacific who must compete with Starlux