While Virgin Atlantic’s route network is heavily focused on transatlantic flights, the airline will be launching a new route to Asia. The motive for this new service is a bit unconventional, though.
In this post:
Virgin Atlantic helping Korean Air by launching Seoul flights
Virgin Atlantic intends to launch a new route between London (LHR) and Seoul (ICN). The new service is expected to operate daily as of the summer 2024 schedule, which kicks in as of late March. The route isn’t yet on sale, and no schedule has been published yet.
So, how do we know about it, and why would Virgin Atlantic launch this route? Well, Virgin Atlantic has an opportunity here to both pick up additional slots at London Heathrow, and to help Korean Air. Wait, how would Virgin Atlantic be helping Korean Air by competing against the airline head-to-head?
Currently Korean Air and Asiana are in the process of merging. The airlines have been facing some regulatory challenges, as governments of several countries need to sign off on this merger. The UK is one country where Korean Air has been facing some challenges, as the Competition and Markets Authority has been pushing back against this merger.
The concern is that currently Asiana and Korean Air are the only airlines flying between the UK and South Korea, so if the airlines merge, there would be no competition in the market. This would be bad for consumers, and it would be bad for the movement of cargo between the countries.
The UK and Korean Air have been working on a way to address this concern, and have come to an agreement:
- Korean Air has to make seven weekly London Heathrow slot pairs available to Virgin Atlantic
- Virgin Atlantic can use those slot pairs to launch flights between London Heathrow and Seoul Incheon
Here’s how a Virgin Atlantic spokesperson described this development:
“Air passengers deserve a choice when flying. We believe that a fair and competitive market is essential for the aviation industry to evolve and thrive. We welcome the CMA’s decision regarding Virgin Atlantic’s role as the remedy taker in the Korean Air and Asiana merger, which will facilitate our entry into Seoul. We are excited to be appointed as the remedy taker to start flying to Seoul and will confirm our next steps in relation to a route start-up in due course.”
Will Virgin Atlantic’s Seoul route last?
Nowadays Virgin Atlantic’s route network to Asia is pretty limited. Aside from India, Pakistan, and the Maldives, the airline only flies to Shanghai (and that’s a route that’s just resuming for the first time in years).
I can’t imagine that Virgin Atlantic would have otherwise launched flights to Seoul, but I can see how the logic adds up here:
- When you’re an airline with a hub at Heathrow, one of the biggest challenges is acquiring slots to grow; if you’re given slots to operate a route, that’s a big incentive to consider
- Virgin Atlantic is now a member of SkyTeam, and at least has the benefit of having connectivity in South Korea, thanks to the partnership with Korean Air
- Delta owns a 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic, and also has a transpacific joint venture with Korean Air, so making sure this merger is approved is very much in Delta’s best interest as well
So while this route doesn’t seem like one that Virgin Atlantic would have otherwise independently operated, given the circumstances, I can see how this makes sense.
Still, I’m curious to see if it lasts in the long run. Here’s where it gets interesting. The terms of the deal allow Virgin Atlantic to keep the slots and use them for other routes, as long as the Seoul service is maintained for at least three years. So I think it’s safe to assume the service will last for three years, but will it last for longer than that?
Virgin Atlantic has a limited fleet and doesn’t have plans to grow its fleet that much, so utilizing planes as efficiently as possible is even higher of a priority than at other airlines.
Bottom line
Virgin Atlantic intends to launch flights between London and Seoul as of 2024. The UK was raising concerns about the merger between Korean Air and Asiana, given the lack of air service competition between the two countries.
With Virgin Atlantic now agreeing to operate this route in exchange for the slots needed to do so, this seems like a win-win-win. Virgin Atlantic only has to maintain this service for three years, and can then utilize the slots for other routes.
What do you make of Virgin Atlantic launching flights to Seoul?
Any update on this route? I can’t find anything??
As an alternative one stop route to Japan with VA I welcome it as an option for VA reward flights and companion seats.
Virgin is suspending all flights to Pakistan in a few weeks so they'll have planes available to send elsewhere. Actually, talk has been that Virgin will launch ICN using those planes.
This isn't competition at all tbqh, both VS and KE are part of SkyTeam now and they will also be codesharing on the new flights. VS is definitely using this to get slots at Heathrow as after 3yrs they will be theres but crucially they can use them for any other route. The competition authorities in the Britain still have to approve it so we'll see but meaningfully the only option for a direct flight...
This isn't competition at all tbqh, both VS and KE are part of SkyTeam now and they will also be codesharing on the new flights. VS is definitely using this to get slots at Heathrow as after 3yrs they will be theres but crucially they can use them for any other route. The competition authorities in the Britain still have to approve it so we'll see but meaningfully the only option for a direct flight from Britain is VS or BA and KE obviously wants the 'soft option' of VS who they're in alliance with. Most people who fly to Seoul from Britain generally fly one-stop so I'm not sure if that will be considered and the impact of that, baring in mind that KLM another SkyTeam member flies not just from London airports to their hub and flies to Seouul from there but is pretty well connected to most regional airports - sometimes the only connection scheduled connnection like this as is in Teeside for example.
Being in the same alliance does not remove the requirement to compete. Only a joint venture can do that and Korean and Virgin Atlantic are not in a joint venture.
Not sure how KE will solve the issue for other routes it will have a monopoly on. LAX? NYC? ORD? Rome? BCN?
Ben has written about Air Premia which is a new Korean airline that has started service partly as a result of the slot divestitures that Korean is doing in anticipation of getting approval for the merger. The US has yet to approve the merger but it is likely that other carriers will step in to start other routes where Korean and Asiana have high market concentrations. but that level of market concentration is precisely what the US and EU are looking at.
Virgin Atlantic has announced the end of Pakistan flights, they are probably using those 787s for Seoul flights.
Is the Maldives route new? It's very interesting that they fly nonstop to India and Pakistan, but not Dubai, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc. (from a global airline perspective).
But I know VS's Pakistan flights have had very good load factors. But I heard they are suspending all of their routes to Pakistan soon due to a disagreement/issue with a regulatory authority. That would be very interesting as it would make BA the only airline...
Is the Maldives route new? It's very interesting that they fly nonstop to India and Pakistan, but not Dubai, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc. (from a global airline perspective).
But I know VS's Pakistan flights have had very good load factors. But I heard they are suspending all of their routes to Pakistan soon due to a disagreement/issue with a regulatory authority. That would be very interesting as it would make BA the only airline currently flying nonstop between the UK and Pakistan (until PIA is allowed to resume their flights). BA currently only flies to ISB, as they dropped their Lahore route due to competition from Virgin. And BA's ISB route is often upgraded from a 787-8 to a 777-200 in peak months.
This could end up working well for Virgin considering Incheon is a great hub to transit through on the way to not just Korea, but most of Asia and even Australia and NZ.
Virgin Atlantic could sell flights to Australia and NZ by routing customers through to Seoul to connect with Korean Airs flights to Brisbane, Sydney and Auckland.
Totally agree and re open a route to HKG which VS have terminated.
Virgin is definitely not a competitor to KE as not only are they in the same alliance, but Air France and KLM have a behind the scenes interest. They all collaborat. Competition would be British Airways. Since it’s unlikely BA will resume the only alternate would be if Air Premia start the route.
unless VS and KE have a joint venture, they are legally competitors and subject to prosecution if they fail to compete as any other airlines do.
Being in the same alliance only allows them to exchange services but not jointly plan capacity or price together.
The Atlanta puppeteering behind the scenes is a bit comical, at times. Delta gets to take over an Atlantic flight or two for VS and, miraculously, this all helps Delta's Pacific JV partner at the same time. But... the Delta Heathrow slots all stay in the Delta family (well, with Delta as the dad and equity owner in both KE & VS).
Well... actually Delta gets incremental slots and really isn't divesting anything to provide competition since the OZ slots go to KE which go to VS (for "competition") which ultimately has to do whatever Delta tells it to do... Or, in reality, VS just "leases" their own slots to DL and doesn't really gain any.
nowhere does this article say or is there any evidence that Delta and Virgin Atlantic are changing their transatlantic flights and even if they are, there are benefits from investing in a half dozen airlines around the world - something which neither American or United have done.
you do realize that this is all subject to government approval - so, if Delta is capable of coming up w/ a plan that benefits Delta-invested companies, then...
nowhere does this article say or is there any evidence that Delta and Virgin Atlantic are changing their transatlantic flights and even if they are, there are benefits from investing in a half dozen airlines around the world - something which neither American or United have done.
you do realize that this is all subject to government approval - so, if Delta is capable of coming up w/ a plan that benefits Delta-invested companies, then all it would appear is that Delta can come up w/ legal plans to benefit itself and its partners.
right... going from routes that require one plane per day for VS Trans-Atlantic to a route to ICN that will likely require 1.5-2/day from a planning standpoint... Guess we missed the part in the VS announcements about their growth aircraft in the next two years, meanwhile you've been on every aviation blog loudly proclaiming Delta's international growth plans in the next 2 years+.
OZ gives up Heathrow slots to KE who gives them to VS...
right... going from routes that require one plane per day for VS Trans-Atlantic to a route to ICN that will likely require 1.5-2/day from a planning standpoint... Guess we missed the part in the VS announcements about their growth aircraft in the next two years, meanwhile you've been on every aviation blog loudly proclaiming Delta's international growth plans in the next 2 years+.
OZ gives up Heathrow slots to KE who gives them to VS -- to operate something ENTIRELY out of their network strategy from the last 5+ years -- And... ironically, the VS/DL/AF/KL Joint Venture ends up with more Heathrow slots. One of those companies also has a Joint Venture with Korean.
Don't think I said it was illegal, I said the idea that this is pro-competition is ludicrous. But... Tim, how surprising you don't see it that way. Frankly, I'm shocked you aren't out there trumpeting Delta's masterful playing of the UK regulators.
But, we're also talking about Delta here... the company that was just SHOCKED they wouldn't get to keep the WestJet LGA Slots they divested... wait for it... to WestJet at LGA in order to get a JV with them.
First, it is Korean, not Asiana, that is having to give slots at LHR. See the article
"Korean Air has to make seven weekly London Heathrow slot pairs available to Virgin Atlantic"
Second, you have yet to provide evidence that KOREAN's slots are going to the transatlantic DL/AF/KL/VS joint venture. The slots being divested HAVE TO BE USED for LHR-ICN.
IF after 3 years, VS doesn't want to maintain the flight, THEN you MIGHT...
First, it is Korean, not Asiana, that is having to give slots at LHR. See the article
"Korean Air has to make seven weekly London Heathrow slot pairs available to Virgin Atlantic"
Second, you have yet to provide evidence that KOREAN's slots are going to the transatlantic DL/AF/KL/VS joint venture. The slots being divested HAVE TO BE USED for LHR-ICN.
IF after 3 years, VS doesn't want to maintain the flight, THEN you MIGHT have a point - but it is also possible that VS and KE could apply for and form a joint venture by that point.
When you get basic facts wrong, it is no wonder you come to the wrong conclusion.
and, again, this is all being approved by multiple competition authorities - so, if DL is capable of pulling something that benefits itself and its partners AND satisfies regulators, why shouldn't they be allowed and more, importantly, why can't American and United - or other non-US global carriers pull off the same thing?
awwww, Timmy... a 5 paragraph reply to me posted 8 minutes after I wrote that? Wow... you really are on a heavy refresh schedule today. This is above average even for you. You should've put more thought in before replying because you betray your ignorance.
Always so fun to hear your pro-delta slant, but this one is pretty obvious. lol
Frankly, your bias is pretty obvious here: "First, it is Korean, not Asiana, that...
awwww, Timmy... a 5 paragraph reply to me posted 8 minutes after I wrote that? Wow... you really are on a heavy refresh schedule today. This is above average even for you. You should've put more thought in before replying because you betray your ignorance.
Always so fun to hear your pro-delta slant, but this one is pretty obvious. lol
Frankly, your bias is pretty obvious here: "First, it is Korean, not Asiana, that is having to give slots at LHR. See the article
"Korean Air has to make seven weekly London Heathrow slot pairs available to Virgin Atlantic""
So... since you seem to be struggling with how acquisitions work. I guess we should start at the beginning. OZ and KE compete now. OZ has Heathrow slots. KE has Heathrow slots. KE wants to buy OZ. When that happens (this is key), KE also would get the OZ LHR Slots. The UK Regulator is proposing that, to maintain competition, VS get incremental slots from KE (from OZ) to compete on the route.
If you'd read the article you'd know that "The concern is that currently Asiana and Korean Air are the only airlines flying between the UK and South Korea,"
So, when KE takes over OZ, they'll get the OZ LHR slots. And they'll then give them to VS. Which, ironically, VS doesn't appear to have planned for this potential, at all, in their fleet orders or they've certainly made no mention of how incremental Asia growth (completely outside their network plan the last few years) was why they've purchased planes. Delta, however, as you've been telling everyone, does have too many international wide bodies to use as a result of their new pilot contract requirements.
And I've already said why the slot swap is obvious, you've been out there loudly yelling about Delta's wide body international growth.
Would you care to show us how increased wide body usage (as I said, going from 1 plane/day atlantic to 1.5-2 planes/day usage) going to ICN by VS is capable under their current fleet plan? It's not like they have a lot of planes, Tim. I believe they have... 39?
Walk away buddy... This isn't your day
Max,
I don't care if you post every 60 seconds as long as you stick to the topic at hand... which you are doing here.
We don't have to agree on the topic but personal attacks are not appropriate, esp. if you do them every 5 minutes.
You shouldn't care how often I reply as long as it is related to the topic.
Again, congrats on sticking to the topic!
I'd be...
Max,
I don't care if you post every 60 seconds as long as you stick to the topic at hand... which you are doing here.
We don't have to agree on the topic but personal attacks are not appropriate, esp. if you do them every 5 minutes.
You shouldn't care how often I reply as long as it is related to the topic.
Again, congrats on sticking to the topic!
I'd be happy to sit down for a cup of coffee w/ you but in the absence....
Again, KE is divesting the slots so that VS can start service BEFORE the KE/OZ merger is approved. It does appear that giving the slots from KE to VS did help facilitate the approval of the merger by the UK competition authority but it is still very possible that the US and EU will not approve the merger, in which case KE has given up slots and won't get a merger - so will have just helped VS for no benefit.
You do realize that VS has taken delivery of several new aircraft recently including A350-1000s and A330-900s? Their fleet is growing so it isn't hard at all to see how VS could start a route that requires more aircraft time.
You have simply created your own narrative that Delta is helping VS benefit which ultimately helps DL and yet you continue to get the basic facts wrong.
Awww, Timmy
Enjoy your night.
You need sleep. I’d hate to keep you up by replying to this nonsense 99% of this comment board already said.
Your personal attacks are always amusing but anyone can see you don’t know how to respond to anything I said. Because you actually don’t seem to know what I’m talking about re: aircraft usage and a slot controlled airline “growing” inexplicably while you, tim Dunn, are...
Awww, Timmy
Enjoy your night.
You need sleep. I’d hate to keep you up by replying to this nonsense 99% of this comment board already said.
Your personal attacks are always amusing but anyone can see you don’t know how to respond to anything I said. Because you actually don’t seem to know what I’m talking about re: aircraft usage and a slot controlled airline “growing” inexplicably while you, tim Dunn, are also out there loudly talking about delta’s requirement to grow internationally per their pilot contract.
But why would you know? Delta fired you. They didn’t think you knew anything either. #shocker
Get a life and a Brain. There are many shrinks that’ll get a coffee with you. Don’t seek sane people
Also,
It must’ve been hell writing your response then waiting 25 minutes to click #post
Congrats on your attempt at self control. Where’s Jan? Did your fake alter ego go to bed?
I knew you couldn't stick to the topic or get even the basic facts right.
Awwww
You don’t know what to say because you’re wrong
Typical
Don’t engage if you know you aren’t smart enough on the topic, Timmy. Just admit you’re wrong and move on
Feel free to engage on anything on the topic that you casually ignored because you didn’t know how but it’s so you to admit defeat by not talking about anything I brought up and then ignore it because you know you’re wrong
I guess I should ask since you didn’t reply to it.
So you understand how acquisitions work now? Please be honest. I’m a tad worried now since you’re so worried about delta 24/7.
Care to tell your fans how the KE LHR slots really aren’t from OZ now?
It was a cute non reply after acting all cool like the slots came from KE.
But again… tim Dunn doesn’t know what...
I guess I should ask since you didn’t reply to it.
So you understand how acquisitions work now? Please be honest. I’m a tad worried now since you’re so worried about delta 24/7.
Care to tell your fans how the KE LHR slots really aren’t from OZ now?
It was a cute non reply after acting all cool like the slots came from KE.
But again… tim Dunn doesn’t know what to do with actual facts, he deals in data he doesn’t know anything about because… delta fired him.
Again, his weird obsession fired him.
you simply are pushing a narrative that isn't supported by the facts.
VS is obtaining slots FROM Korean -before the merger of Korean and Asiana is approved.
The notion that VS is getting slots from Asiana is simply not accurate.
Never meant this more:
You’re delusional
Of course they’re Asiana slots. It’s not like Korean is giving VS slots if the merger isn’t approved
Have you lost your mind?
Of course you can’t respond to any actual points I made.
you can't grasp the ACTUAL facts and so you resort to personal attacks.
Korean is divesting slots BEFORE the merger is approved - and it may never be approved.
Korean could be bringing a new competitor into Seoul and still not get the merger approved.
They are simply not Asiana's slots
Stop w/ the personal attacks and admit that you are trying to force a narrative that is simply not supported by facts
Funny how agreements like this can fool regulators and politicians but most of the public can see through the facade.
This is a smart deal for both airlines as well as Delta which is the lynchpin that holds VS and KE together.
Using slots for only 3 years is typical in competition cases - the point is to ensure that there is sufficient competition at the time a merger is concluded but not require an airline to retain it indefinitely.
Because VS and KE are not joint venture partners, they are true competitors...
This is a smart deal for both airlines as well as Delta which is the lynchpin that holds VS and KE together.
Using slots for only 3 years is typical in competition cases - the point is to ensure that there is sufficient competition at the time a merger is concluded but not require an airline to retain it indefinitely.
Because VS and KE are not joint venture partners, they are true competitors even if they are now the same alliance.
As for the flight length and Russian airspace embargoes, all western Europe to northeast Asian flights are taking southerly routes that add an hour or two to the flight length.
The benefit of this flight compared to before is that VS and KE will have stronger ties by being a part of the Skyteam alliance even without a JV.
As a result of this deal, the UK also approved the Korean-Asiana merger which leaves the US and EU as the last two major parties that have to approve it.
There has been new service other than by KE or OZ added from S. Korea to the US which will help reduce the combined size of the two if they merge.
Delta is expected to add more service from the US to Seoul once the merger is approved but, since they have a joint venture with Korean, is undoubtedly waiting for merger approval before they do anything.
Believe me, they won’t be competing. They will share terminal facilities, Korean will do the handling at Incheon.
Air France and KLM will sell via LHR as an alternate to the direct flights from Amsterdam and Paris. They have reciprocal frequent flyer benefits.
none of those types of cooperation allow coordination of schedules, pricing and capacity which is what changes a relationship from being competitors to acting as a single carrier.
If airlines are supposed to be competing and engage in illegal cooperation - such as price fixing or capacity manipulation - regulatory authorities will come after them and that is true in any market-based economy
Good luck trying to operate that flight while avoiding Russian airspace.
KE/OZ has direct flights to LHR, seems to add ~1000 mi avoiding Russia and Ukraine.
Avoiding Ukraine isn't a problem on that route, but avoiding Russia certainly is http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=lhr-icn
Not too tough for the carriers flying it today...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL540/history/20230301/2110Z/EGLL/RKSI
The right statement isn't to 'avoid' but should be 'blocked' Russian airspace as their retaliation to NATO allies blocking first.
Not to judge the military aspect of this conflict. But on the civilian side, clearly the big bully started this all.
The flying civilians suffer from the detour and high gas price. Courtesy of Brandon.
Eskimo- Good news! Gas prices have been trending down for 9 months! Thanks Mr President! https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price
@Scudder
Thanks Mr. President for increasing gas prices by 50% from when you were elected to BEFORE Russia invaded Ukraine (enabled by Biden's fecklessness), which then peaked at 150% higher than when he was elected. Thanks Mr. President for then manipulating gas prices for political reasons by draining the strategic petroleum reserve to its lowest level since 1984, putting us all at risk when an actual crisis happens. I'm not sure if I can take...
@Scudder
Thanks Mr. President for increasing gas prices by 50% from when you were elected to BEFORE Russia invaded Ukraine (enabled by Biden's fecklessness), which then peaked at 150% higher than when he was elected. Thanks Mr. President for then manipulating gas prices for political reasons by draining the strategic petroleum reserve to its lowest level since 1984, putting us all at risk when an actual crisis happens. I'm not sure if I can take anymore of these wonderful gifts that Biden has been giving us.
Well, there is that matter of Russia invading their neighbor for no reason, their troops raping, torturing and murdering civilians, and threatening to attack Europe. I'd say those are damn good reasons to "block" Russia from using NATO airspace.
@XPL One the last few flights, they seem to avoid Ukraine anyway. Probably good practice.
I don't really understand this objection.
As Jan said, it's perfectly manageable with an extra 2 hours or so flying time. If that means it's 14 hours rather than 12, then that's mildly annoying, but to be honest it's not like it's going to change my decision as to whether or not to travel to a long haul destination, and if I had a choice between KE/OZ/VS taking 2 hours extra and avoiding Russian...
I don't really understand this objection.
As Jan said, it's perfectly manageable with an extra 2 hours or so flying time. If that means it's 14 hours rather than 12, then that's mildly annoying, but to be honest it's not like it's going to change my decision as to whether or not to travel to a long haul destination, and if I had a choice between KE/OZ/VS taking 2 hours extra and avoiding Russian airspace and some (currently non-existent) alternative airline that overflies Russia and saves the time... then that's an easy choice for me.