The Latest On The Inevitable Electronics Ban Expansion

Many of the insults and comments hurled at me are just flat out false, or lies. I know this to be true because I know what US aviation security is capable of. My background is in aviation security industry, and we have contracts with the government, so it's funny to be lectured by someone sitting at home spewing nonsense. Go do some reasearch. Someone also stated the EU has the same grip on terror as the US. So that explains all the terror attacks your continent has suffered the past two years. I could not stop laughing. Please tell me where Richard Reid the shoe bomber came from? Paris. Have you heard of the Brussels airport attack? It was in Brussels, that's in Europe. Do you know where the underwear bomber flew to the US from? Amsterdam. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm only talking about famous aviation terror attacks. There's hundreds more that don't involve aviation that have occurred in the past two years in Europe.

Many of you obviously don't read what I write because you parrot things I have already answered, so I'm not gonna waste my time to respond to you individually either if you're not gonna read what I'm writing. Something I thought was hilarious was some "armchair security expert" on here brought up timers.

Hate to break the news to you, but the 1980's are over. Lockerbie, and Air India type bombings cannot happen anymore. If it was so easy to do timers, you don't think terrorists would have already tried this??? Security has increased a thousand folds since then. Try checking a bomb into the cargo hold. It's impossible because of the rounds of screening baggage undergoes.

Again let me just reiterate, and state my point clearly because I don't think it's being interpreted correctly. I do not think it's imperative to ban laptops from Europe to the United States at this time. That being said, I cannot understand for the life of me, why any of you would be against such a policy if an imminent threat was discovered by a few of our intelligence services working together. To give an example, if MI6 and the CIA had proof ISIS was going to use a laptop from Europe, you can guarantee I'd support a laptop ban under those circumstances. Do all of you really need your laptop that badly as to ignore a direct threat? And by the way, to people who say they want to see "proof." Yeah, I'm sure the CIA and MI6 are gonna go out and publish their classified intel in the newspaper so you can read it, and decide for yourselves. Someone also mentioned about questioning government decisions. I agree with this and don't see any problem. You should always be questioning government intrusion into our lives. But there's no motive for intelligence agencies to make up a threat about a bomb in a laptop coming from Europe.

People who are saying these nasty things to me, have absolutely no idea about our intelligence services and the terror watch list names that are constantly run through over and over again on a daily basis of whose planning to come to our country on multiple databases. The reason the US has to be so vigilant is because we're are target #1 for them. There's no place they'd rather hit more than the United States. There's a reason you go through an interview process on any international flight bound for the US, and its not for shits and giggles.

Abe - You're incredibly ignorant... If there's a risk from Europe, there's a risk from anywhere Europeans can travel to - which is EVERYWHERE. Are you seriously trying to claim that a terrorist trying to blow themselves up on a plane would refuse to take a connecting flight!? "Well I WAS going to blow up the American plane on the way to New York to London, but if I'm going to have to make a connection in Canada or Mexico I can't be bothered"!?

@Donna - "Remind me, how many flights have been brought down at the hands of terrorists as a result of the “ineffective TSA”. since 9/11? TSA was established after 9/11……" There have also been no US air-based terrorist attacks since I stopped eating bananas. I suggest you do the same if you want to stop terrorism. Common sense would dictate that if they don't spot 95% of weapons (not a figure I really buy into), there was no terrorist attack for them to spot in the first place.

To Abe and anyone else who supports the idea that laptops need to be stored in the hold, one word:
Timers.

There is no need for a terrorist to be in close physical proximity to a laptop/bomb to make it explode. A tiny timer would do the job. One might ask what if there is a flight delay? Not a problem for the terrorist, because a transatlantic flight takes so many hours that detonation could just be set for 4 hours after expected takeoff, which would compensate for nearly all delays. And if one did go off while the plane was on the ground, it would still instill fear in the public, which would be a partial success for the terrorists.

--The problem with the electronic ban is a common sense one.
--Anyone checking a laptop is a serious risk.
--Why? Because the airlines will lose or break the laptop.
--Further, it is better they break it than lose it.
--Why? If they lose the laptop, data security and identity theft would be a big concern.
--If they break it, then the cost of replacement and potential data loss are the only concerns. [Great way to start a vacation or business trip.]
--Personally, I am not flying without my laptop with me, in the cabin.
--My laptop allows me take care of personal and professional business when I am traveling.
--So, I will avoid flying anywhere there is a ban.
--If the ban becomes widespread, I will stop flying entirely.
--I think those planning to implement the ban are underestimating the negative impact on world travel due to the ban and the resultant overall cost to the economy.

A lot of people made some comments to me just now, and if you read my last post, it answers and addresses basically everything that was just thrown at me. Someone mentioned a terrorist flying from Europe to Asia, and then going from Asia to the United States. I can assure you that if a terrorist attempted to fly that route, they would get so much scrutiny, US authorities would want to know who they were, and they would probably end up being detained in Asia. The US has a very thorough database of people and they know of everyone coming into the US from abroad on any given day. We have command posts, and watch lists dedicated to this very duty everyday. Before you board a plane bound for the USA, your name is run on multiple terror watch lists allowing you to board or not or whether you're going to be getting extra screening upon landing. Zz

I'll repeat myself again to those who laughed at me that the US has the best aviation security. There has not been a single aviation terror attack (or airport attack) since 9/11. You cannot say that for other countries around the world, and you cannot say that for Europe.

The advantage of the laptop being in the cargo hold is obviously that a terrorist doesn't have access to initiating the bomb. Look at the underwear bomber for example. He needed to have access to the things he carried on board in order to actually set the bomb off that were in his under pants. Otherwise the chemicals in his underpants were absolutely harmless. Without him having access to what was in his underwear, it was nothing. Not to mention once a terrorist knows he's not going to have access to his laptop/bomb, he's not going to check it in the cargo hold anyway. Also I don't know about abroad, but cargo baggage in the United States is all screened, quite heavily I might add. I implore people to study that case of the "underwear bomber" (there are some good documentaries on YouTube about it) because I think it's very relevant in this situation where a terrorist has to have access, and be in control of his explosive device in order to detonate the bomb.

A lot of people on here also who are posting negatively, or are mad, are European and that is understandable. I feel your frustration. I'm not saying that banning laptops from Europe to the United States is the optimal option, or a good idea. But, what I am saying is your continent is going through some turmoil, hence why you have terrorist attacks every other month. You have migrants coming in, and nobody knows who they really are. You have completely open borders, and as we've seen the last few years you do not have a good handle on radical Islamic terrorism, as America does.

I'll repeat myself, all terror related aircraft incidents after 9/11 originated outside of the US. Such as Richard Reid the shoe bomber coming from Paris, Brussels airport attack, and the underwear bomber coming from Amsterdam.

Some of your governments can't even keep your own countries safe, so how do expect them to keep an airplane safe? Especially Germany, France, and Belgium. You have ISIS fighters running into Europe posing as Syrian refugees just like the attackers in Paris in November 2015.

Now I'm not saying the ideal solution is to ban laptops between Europe and the United States. Obviously nobody wants that. However, if this was a recommendation by our intelligence services because they had information that an attack was imminent from your continent, then absolutely I would support a ban, and any rational person would support a ban, and should support a ban. If they had information a terror attack from Europe on a commercial aircraft was likely, I don't think it's too much to ask to not have access to your laptop for an 8hr flight. Leave these decisions to the United States professionals. They are the reason no further terrorist aviation disasters have occurred on, or leaving US soil. I cannot stress that point enough.

Also for those of you saying that you hope the EU strikes back and bands laptops for Americans is just plain silly, and childish. This is not some game where it's tit for tat. If the roles were reversed and European officials had information that they needed to ban laptops incoming from the United States, I would absolutely 100% support a ban. We are talking about the global fight against Radical Islam that we must work together to defeat. If a directive was issued banning laptops between Europe and the United States, I can guarantee you it will be good for good reason.

There may be a silver lining to this, particularly for the crowd here. If the impact is a drop in business class travel, on the basis that some short business trips to Europe will simply not allow for enough work time on the flight back. I'm thinking of people who bill by the hour, like lawyers or consultants, where 6-hours of work can comfortably cover the cost of the ticket. And especially if they don't want to checkin their laptops to the hold with sensitive company material. Then those people may simply choose not to fly.

That opens up a lot of excess business class capacity across the Atlantic. Airlines can't easily fill that, except with sales on fares, or making more seats available on (less) points.

If you want to see some great opportunities to fly across the pond in style, and don't mind watching the inflight entertainment, then this could be it.

I don't think it will happen. Too many large entities (like US airlines) stand to lose major money on this. I assume their lobbyists are working overtime to address it. There are over 2,000 flights per week between the US and Europe. That's a much bigger impact than a few ME flights.

As for those who talk about booking via Canada, if the threat is real, won't Canada impose the same restrictions?

I am about to book a trip to Beijing for the fall. It's a 13 hour flight and I book in C so I can work. Thinking of booking via Toronto but seems to me Canada will follow the US on any security restrictions.

If this is a real threat and not just intel agencies having a fun time rattling our cages, then there's no reason Europe would be the only affected origin. Flights from the USA can be just as dangerous as flights to the USA and flights within the USA are also just as vulnerable.

And there's no reason to allow laptops in the cargo hold if they're dangerous. Other than poison gas, there's no danger that wouldn't be just as able to destroy a plane from cargo. Some, like fire, are more dangerous as cargo.

So a total ban of laptops both in the cabin and in checked luggage for both domestic and international flights is the ultimate goal here. Let's see how far they get.

@Abe - You appear not to understand a straw man, which is "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."

Your proposition is that we should "focus on keeping our skies safe".That's precisely the argument to which I'm responding. I'm asking why we should care more about keeping our skies safe than keeping our roads safe. With an average of well under a hundred aviation deaths and over 30,000 driving deaths a year, auto safety would seem the more dangerous activity, worthy of more attention. Obviously existing efforts at auto safety have not been adequate.

"An imminent threat involving a laptop has been gathered by our intelligence services and we should take it seriously."

We have no way of knowing whether this is true. All we have is news stories about a possible ban on laptops in airplane cabins, requiring them to be checked, and claims that explosives could be hidden in laptops (which could easily be true, explosives might be hidden almost anywhere).

It's worth noting that many countries ban lithium batteries from checked luggage, due to fire risks. The rumored US policy is to put more lithium batteries into checked luggage.

@DaveS, how do you know other countries intelligence services disagree with the US government on these decisions? Are you also privy to classified homeland security meetings like Lucky?

@Bob, you've just created a straw man which has absolutely nothing to do with the arguement here. Let's focus on keeping our skies safe. An imminent threat involving a laptop has been gathered by our intelligence services and we should take it seriously.

Even though this has absolutely zero to do with the conversation, yes the government does make inconvenient measures too to keep people safe on the road hence cellphone laws (I wanna text), speed limits (I wanna go as fast as I can), seatbelt laws (i don't wanna put on my buckle), legal drinking limit (I wanna drink whatever I want and drive) etc etc...

"This is obviously a very credible threat for the US government to be acting this way, and we shouldn’t play games with people’s lives so a few businessmen can have their laptops in the cabin to watch movies. Safety is always, and should always be the number one priority when it comes to flying."

It is far from obvious. Reactive security theater has long been the theme for DHS and TSA.

Why should safety be a higher priority for flying than for driving or any other activity? In the US, driving results in about 30,000 deaths a year and millions of injuries. It would take many decades for flying to come close from any cause, let alone terrorism. Should we slash speed limits and otherwise impose massive costs to cut traffic fatalities?

Are the lives of flyers that much more important than the lives of drivers?

"Talk some sense into the current administration?" This is a very arrogant statement.

Unless your privy to classified meetings with the Department of Homeland Security, the CIA, NSA, and the FBI how do you know what kind of threat this is? Maybe it's an attack where swabbing or having them turn on the laptop is entirely moot with the explosives they intend to use? How do you know that maybe the ban on laptops out of the Middle East did actually prevent a terror attack?

I really think you're way out of line pondering whether this decision should be implemented or not without being privy to classified intel only the government has knowledge of. You're simply a blogger who travels a lot. You don't have the foresight to know what kind of threat this is in any way, shape, or form. You're just upset you'll be inconvenienced. That's not a good enough reason to risk everyone's lives.

The US government would not just blindly decide to ban laptops on incoming planes from Europe because they feel like it. You know they have some very credible intel telling them that the next terror attack planned will be using a laptop in the cabin. Otherwise they wouldn't be going to such extremes. I usually agree with you, but what you're saying here is ridiculous. To somehow imply you can be the judge of this, and why this should or should not be implemented is preposterous. And please don't come back and tell me how great European security is when terror attacks have now become commonplace in France, Brussels, Germany, and other major European hub cities every other month. Just look at the swell job Schiphol employees did at apprehending the underwear bomber. Oh wait...

This is obviously a very credible threat for the US government to be acting this way, and we shouldn't play games with people's lives so a few businessmen can have their laptops in the cabin to watch movies. Safety is always, and should always be the number one priority when it comes to flying.