A United Airlines Boeing 777 returned to its origin due to an uncooperative passenger who refused to follow crew member instructions…
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Taipei-bound United 777 returns to San Francisco
This incident happened on Thursday, July 20, 2023, and involves United Airlines flight UA871, scheduled to operate from San Francisco (SFO) to Taipei (TPE). The flight was operated by a roughly six year old Boeing 777-300ER with the registration code N2639U.
The flight was scheduled to depart at 2:40PM, and took off roughly on-time. It flew straight out over the Pacific, but around 1hr40min after takeoff, the decision was made to return to San Francisco. The flight landed back in San Francisco around 3hr20min after it initially departed.
So, what was the cause of this diversion? According to a United spokesperson, the flight returned to San Francisco “due to a disruptive passenger,” and “law enforcement officials met the aircraft on arrival and removed the passenger.”
According to some FlyerTalk members who were on the flight, the passenger was in economy, and kept coming up to business class during the initial drink service. Flight attendants asked him to return to his seat. He walked back, but then returned to business class a few moments later. At this point the crew asked all passengers to be seated, but this passenger refused to listen.
The decision was then made to return to San Francisco. Not that anyone is really in a position to know this for sure, but the claim from a fellow passenger is that he appeared to be under the influence of something.
On the plus side, United did an impressive job with minimizing the disruption here, which is something the airline typically does a great job with. The flight ended up departing at 11:26PM, around nine hours behind schedule, and around four hours after the aircraft returned to San Francisco. That’s about as good as it could get, when you consider that a replacement crew had to be found, including new pilots and flight attendants.
The flight is now scheduled to arrive in Taipei around eight hours behind departure.
Why are these diversions typically on US airlines?
You can’t help but notice how common diversions are on US airlines due to poorly behaved passenger. We see these stories almost every day, while it doesn’t seem to be as common outside of the United States. What’s to blame for for that?
- Are passengers on flights to & from the United States just more consistently behaving poorly? If so, why is that? Do so many of us just have terrible manners?
- Are crews just not as capable of deescalating situations as crews on other airlines? If so, why is that? Do flight attendants just have more power, or a lower threshold for what qualifies for a diversion?
In this case, it sounds like the passenger was legitimately behaving poorly. Did he pose a risk to the safety of the flight? I don’t know, because I wasn’t there.
But I also know that a diversion like this is a headache for all parties involved:
- A diversion like this is a huge expense for United, between fuel burn, crewing, aircraft utilization, delayed passengers, and more
- A diversion like this is a huge pain for passengers, as up to 350 passengers were massively inconvenienced by this; as I always say, some passengers are traveling for very important reasons, to visit a dying relative, and there can be life saving cargo onboard flights too
- A diversion like this is terrible for the environment, and burns a ton of fuel for nothing
Obviously this passenger sounds terrible. But I also have to assume that passengers on airlines in other countries also behave poorly, but there aren’t as many diversions, and somehow planes still typically land in one piece?
Bottom line
A United Airlines Boeing 777 bound for Taipei returned to San Francisco, as a passenger reportedly refused to follow crew member instructions, and repeatedly walked up to business class. The passenger was offloaded in San Francisco, and a new crew was found, and the flight eventually departed around nine hours late.
It’s unfortunate how common these kinds of incidents are in the United States, given how bad they are for everyone involved.
Why is this such a common problem in the United States?!
It's incomprehensible that any normal person could cause this major disruption and inconvenience. Did the flight attendants explain to the passengers the ramifications of their disobedience to follow instructions? This is a serious crime and I have to imagine that the passenger was mentally challenged. The airline was left no choice and I hope he or she is now in some mental facility. If not, they should have to pay for their bad behavior.
Trash feels emboldened to act like trash when they see the scum you elected in 2016 lying, cheating on his wife, insulting veterans and looting the government.
If United is so great at "minimizing disruptions" then I guess you think a 9 hour delay is minimal. I don't know what United you fly but other than AA I think they are terrible at minimizing anything that goes slightly askew. A long way to be as bad as American but 9 hours is no minimization dude.
Congrats to United. It sets an example that they will not put up with disruptive behavior. I have lived in 8 countries and disruptive behavior IS NOT just a US airline problem. I recently flew from USA to UK. Then a few days later flew to Romania. There were LOTS of disruptive people on board the non-US branded flight. The flight attendants chose not to deal with it and not to report it. My theory...
Congrats to United. It sets an example that they will not put up with disruptive behavior. I have lived in 8 countries and disruptive behavior IS NOT just a US airline problem. I recently flew from USA to UK. Then a few days later flew to Romania. There were LOTS of disruptive people on board the non-US branded flight. The flight attendants chose not to deal with it and not to report it. My theory is that US passengers DO report bad behavior and expect the airlines to deal with said behavior. United did a good job.
My fav part is you can burn, loot, murder in san franpsycho and and it’s all justified because waaaaa racism. But simply walking into biz class a few times you draw the line? Lol clown world.
@ Super VC10 The elephant is only in YOUR room, otherwise known as your mind. If it is not relevant to the conversation, you might want to keep your obvious divisive opinions to yourself. If that is possible. I suspect it is not as you want to ensure that everyone, in every conversation, knows your extremely valuable opinion.
If the AH wanted to be in Biz, first guve him a warning of consequences of his disobedience to return to his original seat. If he still persists, let him sit in a Biz seat if available. Then duct tape him in the seat. No Biz amenities are offered inflight.
Finish the flight and hand him over to law enforcement.
No other pax are inconvenienced and UA doesn't waste fuel or incur other expenses.
Too simple?
Years ago they would have just let the guy sit in business class and then upon arrival they would have had him arrested and he would have been charged accordingly and made to pay restitution. That's exactly what should have happened here. Although I wasn't on the aircraft it certainly makes no sense to me to incur the additional $100,000 expense which I'm sure it cost United to divert this aircraft and be delayed for 8 hours.
Most likely the fact that U.S. persons are some of the rudest, most ignorant global passengers to encounter whilst flying. Full of self importance and the belief that they are always right/have rights over everyone else.
Yes and not only on flights it’s shocking their behavior be ashamed Americans very ashamed
Yes and not only on flights it’s shocking their behavior be ashamed Americans .
..."the passenger was offloaded in SFO..."
AND THEN WHAT ?.... he went on his merry way, decided never to go back to Taiwan (even if it was his home country)?, given a new flight by United the next day ?? Why are these clowns allowed to disrupt the travel plans of hundreds of other people and no mention is made of their name, given punishment or a fine. What ?? So frustrating to read about...
..."the passenger was offloaded in SFO..."
AND THEN WHAT ?.... he went on his merry way, decided never to go back to Taiwan (even if it was his home country)?, given a new flight by United the next day ?? Why are these clowns allowed to disrupt the travel plans of hundreds of other people and no mention is made of their name, given punishment or a fine. What ?? So frustrating to read about these idiots but it keeps happening - apparently because nothing is done to them.
My take on why the airline reacts this way is that passengers are like all of our children when they are/were small. If you tolerate the behavior the first time, it will only be repeated again, perhaps even more emphatically.
@Super VC10 - how thoughtful of you to turn a societal issue into a political one. This has been an issue well before he was ever elected into office. But, since you said what you said ... How about those who incite riots, such as Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and the list goes on..... bless your heart.
Stiffer penalties would help, but try to get that enacted into law.
I consider myself blessed to not have to fly any of the American cattle carriers.
The Big Guy & his cackling sidekick are the epitome of bad behaviors. Unfortunately they are the entitled elitist class who can do no wrong! The current regime and their progressive policies allow criminal behaviors without any repercussion! Look how crime has escalated under their regime!
Stop trying to put the blame on anyone except the person. The decline in society started in the 90s with the every kid deserves a trophy mentality. It isn't due to recent politicians whatsoever. The lack of consequences that society has voted on is another factor. Be careful what you ask for is what I was always taught.
Im weary of these stubborn passenger articles that appear every weak obviously written to groom the public for the next crackdown...
I think the pilot was too impulsive. He (or she) should have relinquished control of the aircraft to the co-pilot and gone back to the cabin to have stern private chat with a warning for the offending passenger, instead of turning the plane around and not only inconveniencing the rest of the passengers, but also causing an enormous expense for the company.
United should name this passenger so we can file a lawsuit against him. Never fly a US carrier for overseas travel. Food sucks, service sucks, plane sucks, employees sucks, passengers sucks, pilots sucks.
Working for an airline for 25 years I can say that for the safety and security of all passengers what about if He or She wants to hurt somebody,also you do not see the abuse the airline crews take daily and you put on the bathroom And destroy the walls .
We get blame for everything but you do not see the people that don't care and ask for compensation of 2000 dollars for...
Working for an airline for 25 years I can say that for the safety and security of all passengers what about if He or She wants to hurt somebody,also you do not see the abuse the airline crews take daily and you put on the bathroom And destroy the walls .
We get blame for everything but you do not see the people that don't care and ask for compensation of 2000 dollars for arrival of 1 minute, people abuse maybe will have to create a no fly list ever together for all airlines.
European airlines carry “tools “ to restrain unruly passengers such as ties to but around wrists and ankles. I think that our guys are better trained in de-escalate difficult customers. US crew act as mini dictators. I have seen them in action. Courtesy is anathema to them.
As part of his being criminally prosecuted, as part of his sentence he should be ordered to pay restitution not only to the airline; but, also to any passenger, who suffered a monetar loss due to his actions.
I agree wholeheartedly. Many of these disrupted guests always feel entitled. Poor etiquette bad manners and lack of proper hygiene is very common these days, coming from a frequent flyer observer.
Try banning air travel for life.
Why didn't they just tie him to his seat and carry on?
Who is they? Please explain to me because flight attendants don't get paid to do that! They would potentially get hurt while attempting to retrain the passenger and the majority of flight attendants are females,... Just in case you haven't noticed. The pilots are never going to deal with an unruly passenger in-flight. That could potentially put the in danger.
Pass a simple law valid on commercial flights: it's ok to beat the crap out of people acting like fools.
For some reason, since Covid started, I have noticed more and more people acting out and behaving badly. I really don't know what is different except entitlement mentality. It seems to be an American phenomena. I just hope it stops here and doesn't spread to the rest of the world. When I was growing up you said yes ma'am and yes sir and did what you were told. I don't know when people starting thinking...
For some reason, since Covid started, I have noticed more and more people acting out and behaving badly. I really don't know what is different except entitlement mentality. It seems to be an American phenomena. I just hope it stops here and doesn't spread to the rest of the world. When I was growing up you said yes ma'am and yes sir and did what you were told. I don't know when people starting thinking it was okay to talk back to authority figures thinking there is no consequence for their actions.It time for the pendulum to swing back the other way. Parents do your kids a favor by controlling them a little better. It's okay to say No!
The airlines should charge the unruly passenger the cost for turning back. I'm sure that would deter anyone from causing problems during the flight.
My experiences with United are that the crew are poorly trained confronting these sorts of situations.
A firm but 'reasonable' talking to, or it unsatisfactory, then a little manhandling the guy into a seat and handcuffs seems warranted and reasonable compared to the turnaround and 350 passenger's plans compromised.
I had United staff threatening to kick me off a plane when they removed my expandable briefcase from the overhead locker to put in...
My experiences with United are that the crew are poorly trained confronting these sorts of situations.
A firm but 'reasonable' talking to, or it unsatisfactory, then a little manhandling the guy into a seat and handcuffs seems warranted and reasonable compared to the turnaround and 350 passenger's plans compromised.
I had United staff threatening to kick me off a plane when they removed my expandable briefcase from the overhead locker to put in someones oversized suitcase (which should have been checked in) and I protested having it in my fotwell for 5 hour flight.
The churlish and exaggerated behavoiur of the crew has meant I haven't flown United since and probably never will again
In other countries they don’t tolerate bad behavior, if the customer service agents see a passenger acting disorderly on the ground, they deny him boarding. If the customer then argues , then they get escorted out the terminal in silver bracelets. It’s a very simple process. In the United States is a customer is denied boarding for his behavior, right away they start a scene claiming that they are being discriminated against or picked on...
In other countries they don’t tolerate bad behavior, if the customer service agents see a passenger acting disorderly on the ground, they deny him boarding. If the customer then argues , then they get escorted out the terminal in silver bracelets. It’s a very simple process. In the United States is a customer is denied boarding for his behavior, right away they start a scene claiming that they are being discriminated against or picked on and start screaming I’m going to sue.
Yes, people feel more emboldened after our own leader(s) have broken rules of law, politeness and patience without treating our fellow man kindly.
He needs some serious Jail time, I am sick of these kinds of people !!!
I have been flying US commercial airlines frequently for 50 years. Remember, most of these passengers are from a different generation and as the first responder mentioned people like Trump and other ill mannered politicians have made people think they can get away with anything. We need some laws and the airplane should met by Law Enforcement officers and the passenger should be billed for added expenses of the Airline and the other passengers. These...
I have been flying US commercial airlines frequently for 50 years. Remember, most of these passengers are from a different generation and as the first responder mentioned people like Trump and other ill mannered politicians have made people think they can get away with anything. We need some laws and the airplane should met by Law Enforcement officers and the passenger should be billed for added expenses of the Airline and the other passengers. These are rude people and they should pay for their ill deeds.
Sounds like “Bridesmaids”!
"Elephant in the room"? Oh for God's sake will you PLEASE stop. Trump has as much to do with this as the cute girl next door or Aunt Jemima. Learn to keep your personal beliefs to yourself, you're embarrassing yourself.
He deserved a beating from other passengers. Sometimes mob violence is okay.
The Dems have new policies that gives the criminals the right to steal, kill, bomb, rape and never be jailed. Trump never signed policies to permit any crimes. That idiot who said it was trump needs to stop sucking on illegal drugs and talk to your local dem D.A. they will set you right, moron!
The ignorant idiot passengers need to be black listed , their passport revoked and shown they can't behave like this and get away with it! Future incidents like this, will have other passengers taking matters into their own hands, thus creating potential danger to all passengers! Government officials need to take action, now, not when they can get around to it!
Super VC10, why do Dems and liberals always go there. If course ....... EVERYTHING is Trump's fault! Incredible!
Never mind what crooks and liers the whole Biden family is turning out to be!
Well that was not good for customers nor the investors. If he was not being physical or abusive. Was all that fuel and time wasted worth being the authority of order?
Absolutely worth it and necessary.
This fool could’ve tried to breach the cockpit or opened an exit door.
Please… get him off in handcuffs
The airlines need to put sky Marshall’s onboard and put these disruptive people in a ‘sky-brig’ and hold for the next city.
I Agree with Super DC10
Yup, all Trump`s fault.
Being inconvenienced is one thing, but was there any real danger? Some people, particularly first-time flyers, do not react well to bring stuffed into a cramped seat and told to sit still for 9 hours.
Now someone going from economy and possibly taking an empty seat in business class only works once, then you're blacklisted. Problem solved without inconveniencing 200 other passengers by turning around.
Give them that "drink" they want so bad, and make it a strong sedative. Put them to sleep and get on with the trip.
This is NOT simply a USA flights problem, it happens all over the world but the USA do something about it whereas other countries dont. That is why we only hear about the USA. I've been on some dreadful flights with disruptive drunken louts and disruptive males punching the back of seats throught the flights and nothing is done about it. It is totally wrong for everyone else who pay just the same airfare and...
This is NOT simply a USA flights problem, it happens all over the world but the USA do something about it whereas other countries dont. That is why we only hear about the USA. I've been on some dreadful flights with disruptive drunken louts and disruptive males punching the back of seats throught the flights and nothing is done about it. It is totally wrong for everyone else who pay just the same airfare and end up having to endure hours of distress because the airline staff cant control these disruptive people and the flight continues to its destination. Well done USA is what I say.
Let's not talk about President Trump like that first off..ever hear the saying can't fix stupid? Well in this case the passenger was being a hemorrhoid and prob had very low morals..too many of these people today and it's def not because of President trump.
It was Donald Trumps fault. Let it go.
I think there are few reasons. Main, people's behavior has become less controlled. There are so many, so, so many people that do not acceptno for an answer, can't wait, do not care to bother others. See how large people think they have the right to spill over the sits on both sides and the sit partner can't protest. NEXT the airlines have made comfort none existing. Chairs, even in first class are wore out,...
I think there are few reasons. Main, people's behavior has become less controlled. There are so many, so, so many people that do not acceptno for an answer, can't wait, do not care to bother others. See how large people think they have the right to spill over the sits on both sides and the sit partner can't protest. NEXT the airlines have made comfort none existing. Chairs, even in first class are wore out, uncomfortable, space is not just limited but so reduced that even the bathrooms are to be used standing up.
You do realize that thing you occupy on an aircraft is a SEAT not a SIT. This is very basic language skill. Probably best to learn how to correctly communicate before opining.
Simple solution for all disruptive passengers, put them on a permanent carrier wide "No Fly List"! Just the knowledge of this possibility would stop most of the disruptive behavior. Then, if it occurs, jail time and fine the heck out of any perpetrater!!!
I'd say because a lot of us Americans act like entitled assholes. Who knows if this may have escalated into more, but this was less than two hours into the flight and this person was behaving poorly. It could have gone either way, but better to turn back while still do close to the originating airport vs hours over the sea.
I just cant figure out why so many people on here are ready to grab their torches and pitch forks over this guy. From any repetitive information I found he posed no security risk at all(Sorry simply asking questions, and "refusing" to sit does not itself create a security risk there has to be other factors for that)
People saying him not following societal norms/unwritten rules warrants jail time? Being difficult warrants jail time? Flight...
I just cant figure out why so many people on here are ready to grab their torches and pitch forks over this guy. From any repetitive information I found he posed no security risk at all(Sorry simply asking questions, and "refusing" to sit does not itself create a security risk there has to be other factors for that)
People saying him not following societal norms/unwritten rules warrants jail time? Being difficult warrants jail time? Flight crew broke multiple societal norms, ordering a person to sit down because they came up from economy to business to ask a question(societal norm says to treat people with respect and kindness regardless of class), how the flight attendant handled that initial contact could have directly impacted the series of events that followed since he just seemed to be dismissed and told to sit down(Societal norm is to be tolerant and understand of others view point), extremely inconveniencing 300+ people because one person was being an annoyance(societal norm is to put the needs of the many over the needs of the few).
The employment of people in a largely customer service based job who dont know how to handle difficult customers is more of safety risk than this situation is. Bartenders and people in the casino industry deal with far more difficult people, who pose far more risk than this guy and handle the majority of them with ease.
Bartenders have shotguns under the bar and casino staff have security. Flight attendants just have their scarfs to protect them.
If this person wasn't willing to listen to the filght crew, who is to say he won't try to open an airplane door or charge at the cockpit.
How many shotguns have you seen under a bar at a bar? This aint the movies. Yes, Casino's do how security. This security wouldnt have thrown this guy out the casino for asking questions and not obeying being told to sit down the first few times. The situation would have more often than not would be de-escalated.
He could try to open the door, but they dont open with the cabin pressurized. He could also...
How many shotguns have you seen under a bar at a bar? This aint the movies. Yes, Casino's do how security. This security wouldnt have thrown this guy out the casino for asking questions and not obeying being told to sit down the first few times. The situation would have more often than not would be de-escalated.
He could try to open the door, but they dont open with the cabin pressurized. He could also charge at the cockpit, but its going to hurt when he runs into that locked door.
But nothing he had done up to this point would indicate that one of those is his next move. Asking someone a question and them dismissing you like nothing, would remove any respect that their title gave them by default. Followed by "sit down", "why","because I said" would be an example of entitlement by the employee not the customer.
An annoyance? Are you serious. We live in a post 911 world. Someone making repeated attempts to access business class, at the front of the plane, for which they do not have a ticket is way more than a mere annoyance. That is absolutely, 100% a potential security threat. There is no way of knowing what someone is capable of or what their intent is when they are refusing direct commands to leave an area...
An annoyance? Are you serious. We live in a post 911 world. Someone making repeated attempts to access business class, at the front of the plane, for which they do not have a ticket is way more than a mere annoyance. That is absolutely, 100% a potential security threat. There is no way of knowing what someone is capable of or what their intent is when they are refusing direct commands to leave an area they are not allowed to be in. Seems pretty straightforward to most reasonable people. I am astounded at your nonchalant attitude towards such an incident. I suspect if you were one of the passengers on a plane where this is happening you would be much less inclined to be so dismissive.
Not following crew instructions and interfering with the crews ability to do it’s job safely are absolutely reason to return to gate and let the local authorities take over. Bravo United
Place Sky Marshall's on particular flights with arrest authority and have a seat for detention including handcuffs and gags, if neccessary or increase security at departure gate with passenger observation.
Oh, ok. Trumps fault. I get it.
What a troll.
Some passengers from the USA are arrogant and think they can do whatever they please. It can be a mind set of me, instead of us. It’s sad state of affairs.
How do we know the passenger wasn't from Taiwan?
He probably had a real problem, but I thought since he was in the economy section, his problem wasn’t important
His problem is NOT important when he disrupts the safety of 350+ people enclosed in a plane flying over the ocean.
Exactly how did him asking questions and standing up disrupt any safety at all?
Americans feels as if they're entitled and can get away with anything....ijs
Go ahead... come for me!
You assume the pax was American Perhaps not, it was ab international flight
I just returned from Jerusalem a 12 hour flight. Our plane departed from New Jersey airport at 12.00am and by the time the plane was 2 hours in flight everyone was asleep. I rather fly at night on these long flights.
There should be a way to restrain unruly passengers (air marshals,etc.) during a flight so that the other 200-300 passengers are not inconvenienced. Maybe a seat in the back with armrests with areas for handcuffs or other restraints.
Totally agree. These type of interruptions are unacceptable. The person should be sued for all the problems they have caused. Kept separately from other passengers in a locked room and taken I to custody as soon as they land. Stop making everything political. It's just ridiculous to blame bad behavior on anybody but themselves
Sick of hearing about Trump And biden being the cause of everything that goes wrong with unruly citizens.you sound like...
Totally agree. These type of interruptions are unacceptable. The person should be sued for all the problems they have caused. Kept separately from other passengers in a locked room and taken I to custody as soon as they land. Stop making everything political. It's just ridiculous to blame bad behavior on anybody but themselves
Sick of hearing about Trump And biden being the cause of everything that goes wrong with unruly citizens.you sound like a child blaming the bad kids bad behavior on anybody than themselves
Although it seems to happen more in our country that remains to be seen but I applaud the actions taken by the airline to assure that the rest of the flyers had a pleasurable flight, and for backing up their employees. We are tired of rolling over and taking guff from unruly passengers.
It's almost laughable how DJT is blamed for almost everything. Dummy!
It is Trump's choice of behaviors that are being criticised. He employs behaviors like arrogance publicly, as we have witnessed him doing ourselves. He brags of being able to violate women with impunity, as if they have asked for him to attack their genitals and crows about his ability to shoot someone on 5th Avenue and never lose one supporter from it. Most Americans find this a disgusting trait.
Anyone displaying disruptive behaviors in a...
It is Trump's choice of behaviors that are being criticised. He employs behaviors like arrogance publicly, as we have witnessed him doing ourselves. He brags of being able to violate women with impunity, as if they have asked for him to attack their genitals and crows about his ability to shoot someone on 5th Avenue and never lose one supporter from it. Most Americans find this a disgusting trait.
Anyone displaying disruptive behaviors in a flying airplane carrying hundreds of potential victims if a crash occurs while over an ocean as large as the Pacific is an imminent threat. Anytime an airline employee has to predict what a disruptive passenger might possibly do if the disruption continues
during the flight is a situation calling for mind reading or fortune telling. This is an unfair choice to require from employees.
The only rational choice is whether to continue and trust to luck or turn around and let the police handle the problem. Hundreds of innocent humans dying from a crash is always a worse outcome than arriving eight hours late.
The disrupter who is simply enjoying being an asshole requires consequences severe enough to convince others to restrain themselves from repeating similar disruption.
If we learn of mitigating circumstances, we have an opportunity to learn, reflect and improve. Businesses answering to a risk potential must weigh all the lives on board and the best way to ensure their safety first. A late arrival is not such a high price to pay. Many passengers have endured worse from storms.
She never mentioned him. YOU did.
Time to permanently ban them from all airlines and fine them for the delay and inconvenience to all.
Maybe we need to bring the DUI standard of .08=to impaired to drive over to flying. .08=to impaired to fly.
Maybe the reason more of this happens on US airlines is that Americans are more litigious than other peoples and there are more lawyers available to take any case no matter how thin. "A settlement is better than nothing."
Maybe it's time to bring Back air marshals, but in federal uniforms, so they are visible.
To the passengers. Make it a federal offense with jail time to disrupt a flight, and maybe that would help. Also the Marshall could cuff them and send the passenger back to the police in the original air port
SuperVC10, what won't you blame Trump for? Are you saying there were no such things as unruly passengers before 2016? Look, I didn't vote for Trump, but you guys and gals who can't keep his name out of your mouth and are probably close to figuring out a way to blame him for the destruction of the dinosaurs are getting more ridicules than you accuse him of being.
Definitely agree. Thank you!
I'm glad you said that. I didn't see your comment before I posted mine.
And the OMAAT staff think that the idiotic comment offered up by Super VC 10 was one of the most “helpful.” Pinning the outrageous behaviour of that passenger on President Trump is truly ridiculous in the first place, without any merit whatsoever and totally asinine to print it
I have flown internationally; I believe some other countries have more stringent pre-boarding assessments, reducing the possibility of a disruptive passenger boarding the planes. Perhaps the US needs to adopt screening procedures to keep unruly passengers on the ground. For instance, if a passenger appears under the influence, policies, and possibly laws, can be enforced to test for same.
As for examples set by politicians, I saw a Democratic politician ejected from a flight...
I have flown internationally; I believe some other countries have more stringent pre-boarding assessments, reducing the possibility of a disruptive passenger boarding the planes. Perhaps the US needs to adopt screening procedures to keep unruly passengers on the ground. For instance, if a passenger appears under the influence, policies, and possibly laws, can be enforced to test for same.
As for examples set by politicians, I saw a Democratic politician ejected from a flight prior to take-off for unruly actions. One's political beliefs do not determine one's good or bad manners.
One reason is quite simple. Air fares are very cheap compared to decades ago. Those that would travel Greyhound now fly. There is a lower class of passenger who does not understand the meaning of civility. The cramped seats don't help as well.
I would like to see anybody trying to travel to Taiwan in a Greyhound!!!
I guess a more expensive seat does not exclude anybody from being ignorant!
Super VC10:
I thought you’re talking about Creepy JB “you dog faced pony soldier!”
This has nothing to do with trump need a law for fines and jail time people do what they want because they can no respect for others or for safety politics have defunded our safety put the seat belt sign on permanently on flights
The "Brig" is the best answer! Build a transparent "one-way" glass container Inconvenience the "nimrod" who is disruptive.
Alcohol! Stop serving it
Just put a cage behind an insulated dividing wall in the back of plane and lock unruly, disruptive passengers in there then carry on as usual.
This can't be the whole story. The passenger walked up to Business Class and did what? Threatened someone, sat in a Business Class Seat, drank from someone's cup, disturbed the pilots. . . I'm confused. I would be HIGHLY upset for my flight to be delayed nine hours over some passenger just walking up and down the aisle.
super vc10 the only elephant in the room is you, obviously you need to get a life. stop blaming trump the reality is that the biden administration and the democrats allowing blm two years ago to ruin the us by beating and burning business has created the environment of entitlement i. america
Amen !!!!!
Would you kids stop bitching about the orange shitgibbon already? Let it go andi move on. JFC.
I hope these people who pull this kind of thing are heavily fined and forced to drug test. I like the idea of a brig on the plane.
Yes a brig with a trap door. Red button inside the brig says "Don't push"
United Airlines employees are on a power trip. Plain & simple!
That was truly an ignorant comment.
I can't believe the idiocy of these comments, from wanting to sue the airlines to blaming Trump? Kill me now
Hey there, I can sense your frustration with those comments, and it’s totally understandable. Dealing with extreme reactions online can be overwhelming and even infuriating at times. It’s like a rollercoaster of emotions, right? But hey, instead of getting bogged down by the negativity, let’s rise above it and channel our energy into discussing the core issue – the unruly passenger incident. Let’s have a thoughtful conversation, trying to understand each other’s perspectives. Remember, empathy...
Hey there, I can sense your frustration with those comments, and it’s totally understandable. Dealing with extreme reactions online can be overwhelming and even infuriating at times. It’s like a rollercoaster of emotions, right? But hey, instead of getting bogged down by the negativity, let’s rise above it and channel our energy into discussing the core issue – the unruly passenger incident. Let’s have a thoughtful conversation, trying to understand each other’s perspectives. Remember, empathy goes a long way in finding common ground and solutions. So take a deep breath, and let’s navigate this with a level head!
I agree. The level of ignorance is astounding!
duck tape
Duct tape, what’s the deal with duct tape? It’s like the quick-fix hero that we all rely on, right? I mean, people use it for everything! You got a leak, just duct tape it. Car’s falling apart, just duct tape it. I bet people even use it to fix their broken hearts, and why not? It’s versatile! But have you noticed how it comes in all these different colors now? Who decided we needed fashion...
Duct tape, what’s the deal with duct tape? It’s like the quick-fix hero that we all rely on, right? I mean, people use it for everything! You got a leak, just duct tape it. Car’s falling apart, just duct tape it. I bet people even use it to fix their broken hearts, and why not? It’s versatile! But have you noticed how it comes in all these different colors now? Who decided we needed fashion in our fix-it supplies? I can just see someone at a hardware store saying, “Yeah, I need duct tape to match my curtains, you got that in turquoise?” And you know what’s funny? It always starts off as a temporary fix, but that stuff never comes off! You put it on, and it’s like it’s stuck for life. Duct tape, it’s the clingy ex of the repair world!
The answer is simple: TRUMP. Along with all the other things he has destroyed in the United States (and with impacts felt around the world), his incorrigible refusal to follow rules and tell the truth has made his moronic supporters believe they no longer have to abide by societal norms of behavior.
what planet do you live on?
Stop blaming Trump for everything. Good Lord, get over him…
Exactly what planet do you live on? Unruly passengers were raised by unruly, entitled, and bullying parents. Let the baby do what it wants to, no consequences! They can't be told they're wrong because that would just break their little hearts. Thank you helicopter mom and dad.
Please tell me you’re joking, right?
Im pretty sure this whole fiasco is your fault. Anyone named Jim is at fault. See how much sense that made? None. Your comment and opinion is utter nonsense. I dont like Trump much, but what a crackbrain you are. Lay off the bathsalts.
I find it outrageous that this happened. The flight should never have turned around and been 8 hours late. That has a major economic impact on everyone.
Seems It's Time to make a jail cell on flights and avoid this and deal with the transgressor once at destination or ship em back to origination. Come on people!
Don't they have air Marshall's on these flights. I agree with a holding cell for a passenger like this.
Why could they not stop in Hawaii, get rid of the disruptive passenger, turn him over to law enforcement and be on their way. Another possibility would be to handcuff him to the medieval torture chamber otherwise known as the middle seat.
Everything else aside. Why does the author of this article, Ben Schlappig, need to include that the aircraft was a "roughly six year old Boeing 777-300ER with the registration code N2639U?"
What's the relevance of the make, age, and registration code to the actions of an unruly passenger?
It's as if this somehow or another factored into the decision to turn the aircraft around mid-flight.
Hey Ben, maybe next time include other...
Everything else aside. Why does the author of this article, Ben Schlappig, need to include that the aircraft was a "roughly six year old Boeing 777-300ER with the registration code N2639U?"
What's the relevance of the make, age, and registration code to the actions of an unruly passenger?
It's as if this somehow or another factored into the decision to turn the aircraft around mid-flight.
Hey Ben, maybe next time include other critical information such as the aircraft's seat colors and the pilot's choice of cologne.
You know, I was reading this article, and the author, Ben Schlappig, goes on and on about the aircraft details. I mean, who does that? It’s like he’s giving us an aviation history lesson instead of talking about an unruly passenger. “So, there I was, in this Boeing 777-300ER, which was roughly six years old, you know, with the registration code N2639U, and oh boy, this passenger acted up!” Seriously, who cares about the plane’s...
You know, I was reading this article, and the author, Ben Schlappig, goes on and on about the aircraft details. I mean, who does that? It’s like he’s giving us an aviation history lesson instead of talking about an unruly passenger. “So, there I was, in this Boeing 777-300ER, which was roughly six years old, you know, with the registration code N2639U, and oh boy, this passenger acted up!” Seriously, who cares about the plane’s registration code when you’ve got a passenger causing a ruckus? It’s like telling a story about your neighbor’s dog barking, and then mentioning the dog’s breed, age, and favorite chew toy. Stick to the juicy stuff, Ben, we want to know about the chaos in the cabin, not the plane’s pedigree!
Ah, I get it now! So, the author’s going all detective on us, trying to solve the mystery of the unruly passenger with a detailed aircraft description. Like, whoa! I mean, does the age of the plane really influence a person’s decision to cause a ruckus mid-flight? And the registration code? Are we playing airplane bingo now? “N2639U, please report to the principal’s office!” It’s like they’re trying to connect dots that aren’t even there!...
Ah, I get it now! So, the author’s going all detective on us, trying to solve the mystery of the unruly passenger with a detailed aircraft description. Like, whoa! I mean, does the age of the plane really influence a person’s decision to cause a ruckus mid-flight? And the registration code? Are we playing airplane bingo now? “N2639U, please report to the principal’s office!” It’s like they’re trying to connect dots that aren’t even there! Next thing you know, they’ll be telling us the in-flight snack selection affected the passenger’s behavior. “Sorry officer, I got cranky ‘cause they ran out of pretzels!” It’s just one of those head-scratching moments, folks!
Let's not ignore the elephant in the room. We had a president, who joined a group, whos' main tenet, is to kill all infidels. Anything is ok.
Donald Trump ? Was he one the plane ? You need to get your head examined
Some people will never get over Trump! There's more to worry about than one person. You don't even know if this was a Trump supporter. Asides from that what has Biden done to bring costs down. Not much. Unruly passengers have issues. I go for a holding cell and Marshall's on overseas flights.
To say this the fault of Trump is laughable! No it’s because some ppl have no respect for authority and feel like they can do as they please. But for anyone to say this is bc of Trump needs their head examined. I’ll go out on a limb and say the person that commented that also voted for Biden and seriously thinks he is doing a good job
Isn't Trump one of those, who had no respect for authority and felt like he could do as he pleased?
Actually sounds like Hunter Biden is the one doing a good job defying all authority. We must be the laughing stock of the world with this son of a President stashing cocaine in the white house. Talk about privilege. As far as the stewardesses go they do a fantastic job. No power trip there, just doing what is necessary to keep everyone safe.
I am apolitical, and not a US citizen. Do you actually believe Hunter Biden is the source of all cocaine found in or near the White House or are you just trying to be cute?
DON'T fly American airlines when overseas, there's plenty of foreign airlines with the BEST equipment, food and comfort than any of our airlines, sorry but true
Probably cheaper and less inconvenient for everyone to just let this flyer sit in business class, then get him arrested in Taiwan
Why reward bad behavior SMH
Some bed and breakfasts in the UK Cotswolds area have a sign in the window "Please, no Americans!"
They just don't know how to behave in or out of their own environments.
Most are thick as pig manure due to poor education system and no discipline at home.
You couldn't make it up.
Well said. If they can't go without booze for 8 hrs. that's a shame. But the Airlines look at revenue. It's all about the MONEY.
I hope these people who pull this kind of thing are heavily fined and forced to drug test. I like the idea of a brig on the plane.
Wow I can understand this.
A book was written by the title The Ugly American
Like I said before, just pass s law or regulations that states, if you're gonna be a Karen you're going to be slap by all the people you have inconvenienced. Coz it feels you're being hostage by these clowns. So all 300 or so passengers get to slap that mofo, just like that scene in the movie "Airplane".
Of course, its all trumps fault. Entitlement begins and ends with him. No other politician breaks any social rules. Insane.
Oh I know Bob. It’s unreal!!! And yes insane
Stop it! We ALL know what he did. Drop it. JFC.
Why is there still alcohol being served on flights? Smoking was also banned some years ago that worked out well.
Great point! Ban Alcohol.
it happens all the time in the UK as well. I was crew for over 30yrs and the passengers behaviour got worse and worse over the years that's why i left a career that i loved. It always seems to involve alcohol or some other mind altering substance.
The airline, crew, and rest of the passages should form a class action lawsuit against the passenger that get removed. Once these type of lawsuit successfully bankrupt the disruptive passenger and make the news a few times, perhaps people may think twice before they become disruptive.
Such behavior on aircraft is totally unacceptable.It disrupts everyone on board and it's very annoying.Some people need to get to their destination as soon as possible and then have to deal with such a unmannerd passenger.Adults don't behave like adults these days and make such a fool of themselves.These adults need to grow up and need to be taught some manners and respect for other people.
I think UA or any other US carriers' end up diverting planes due to unruly pax is because they let intoxicated paxs on board to begin with. At this point, they are also rightfully concerned about the safety of the pax & the crew. The only possible way to prevent or minimize these types of incidents are definitely not allow intoxicated pax on board & if occasionally one slides through then make sure the punishment...
I think UA or any other US carriers' end up diverting planes due to unruly pax is because they let intoxicated paxs on board to begin with. At this point, they are also rightfully concerned about the safety of the pax & the crew. The only possible way to prevent or minimize these types of incidents are definitely not allow intoxicated pax on board & if occasionally one slides through then make sure the punishment is severe enough that they won't do it again. Airlines legally must figure out to penalize these pax financially besides jail time. Maybe everytime a person buys a ticket automatically they have to agree on a financial penalty if they choose to be an asshole on a flight. These airlines have more than enough legal teams. Im sure they can figure it out. I would personally restrain them until the flight lands safely then once landed beat the shit out of them but thats me, i know the crew cant do it
They should have locked him up in the loo and left him in Hawaii.
The unruliness of this person should be fined ( like pay for the extra fuel and have that person pay half of the air fare for each person on the plane
Leave it to some liberal jerk to blame this on Trump!
Exactly!!!
Trump is not to blame for the actions of some unknown individual, no - but the fact that America elected a shyster who cheats on his wives, cheats on his taxes, and lies about his business prowess is a SYMPTOM of what is *wrong* with America. The fact that you cry "liberals are so stupid they blame Trump for everything!" could not demonstrate the true problem more clearly.
Are you sure Lizzy? Because those of us who have graduated beyond the first two decades of existence have realized that what your describing is actually every politician ever minted. Hence, what they are saying is this problem began wayyy before trump was ever a left wingers favorite wet dream. You know, reality. I suppose it is verboten in the 21st century to simply say the obvious, but it really does offer the best results.
You didnt think that a sleep compartment would be better to make long haul trips. More. Comforty
This is pure bullshit. So you inconvenience 300+ passengers for one unruly passenger walking into business class! Restrain the asshole in the rear galley and continue to the destination on time.
It's all starts at home . If respects, humility and kindness are taught better at home then our society would be betters a whole. Nowdays, lots of parents don't want to take the time to exercise good parenting because it's hard work. Boundaries, respect, humility and kindness are not taught and consequences are not enforced like in the past. Kids run the parent mostly now days. Hence our society has been deteriorating more and more....
It's all starts at home . If respects, humility and kindness are taught better at home then our society would be betters a whole. Nowdays, lots of parents don't want to take the time to exercise good parenting because it's hard work. Boundaries, respect, humility and kindness are not taught and consequences are not enforced like in the past. Kids run the parent mostly now days. Hence our society has been deteriorating more and more. I hate to say it but Americans tend to be more arrogance than many other cultures.
Just my worthless opinion and no disrespect to anyone.
It's not about DJT as one person commented.
What it is about is "entitlement thinking". People who get on a plane without understanding or caring about their fellow travelers were not taught manners and courtesy growing up. Having been a 30+ year SF Bay Area resident, I've seen this behavior not only on planes, but in the grocery store as well. About time people grow up.
Just throw him out over the ocean.
Just amazing how these whiny little bitch airlines, who are always complaining how they are never making enough money robbing their customers and employees blind, are willing to turn a plane around and fly back to where they started over the dumbest ahit imaginable. Who cares about the other 300+ paying customers in the plane.
Unruly passengers need to be put on a no-fly list across all airlines!
I was on the flight. The passenger was running up and down both aisles at full pace. screaming amongst other things, dont look at me and violently confronting passengers throughout the aircraft. He was subdued by felow passengers and restrained in his seat for the return. He appeared to be having a drug induced event and appeared quite psychotic and indeed dangerous. He was marched out of the aircraft by felow passengers and the crew...
I was on the flight. The passenger was running up and down both aisles at full pace. screaming amongst other things, dont look at me and violently confronting passengers throughout the aircraft. He was subdued by felow passengers and restrained in his seat for the return. He appeared to be having a drug induced event and appeared quite psychotic and indeed dangerous. He was marched out of the aircraft by felow passengers and the crew appeared to play little role in controlling the passenger. He was arrested by police and witness statements were taken. Drugs have consequences and the passenger concerned is likely now learning that. The disruption caused was significant and my already long trip required 2 unplanned, 12 hour layovers and reticketing and an additional flight purchase as a consequence. It is time for zero tolerance for drugs......
Thanks!
Why did you have to pay extra that insident is not your fault. I would have been pissed if I had to pay extra money. I would sue
This is a big problem and it appears to me that the airlines are going to have to make more difficult decisions rather than turn a plane around and inconvenience hundreds of other passengers for the sake of one who thinks to defy the rules. One suggestion is to maintain 1 or 2 seats for the express purpose of detaining said passenger(s) until arriving at closest destination possible to offload individual(s). #2 - inform everyone...
This is a big problem and it appears to me that the airlines are going to have to make more difficult decisions rather than turn a plane around and inconvenience hundreds of other passengers for the sake of one who thinks to defy the rules. One suggestion is to maintain 1 or 2 seats for the express purpose of detaining said passenger(s) until arriving at closest destination possible to offload individual(s). #2 - inform everyone from now on that anytime a flight has to be diverted or turned around, the disruptive passenger(s) will be charged for the expense of the diversion ( cost of fuel, lost manhours & manpower, and any adjustments the airline must make to cover other passengers losses on that flight).
If something isn't done to stop this unruly behavior, all of us who fly will be penalized for these costs with increasing ticket charges and baggage fees. It's not fair to anyone and the airlines have got to stop allowing this type of power play.
Passengers should be able to sue the person or people who cause the flight interruption for the lost time/expense incurred by the delay (missed connections, hotel, and a flat "per hour" fee). It may only a nominal amount per person, but you multiply that by the number of people on the plane, and it will have a huge impact.
Disruptive passengers should not just be off loaded and fined but also charged for the spent fuel and cost of the unscheduled return flight to an airport. That financial burden should be passed on to that person(s).
Supervc10 your so good at blaming people who in no way shape or form have anything to do with it. Your life is miserable so blame trump. Your pathetic so blame trump. Why don’t you get a life and stop blaming innocent people for everyday mishaps.
Wat I would like to know these passengers that get off loaded on a flight, do they get banned from the airline for life. ? Does United contact other Airlines and say don't allow this passenger to board on your airline ? And vise versa. I would love to know the answer to this..
It keeps happening because these people get away with impunity. Make them pay for the extra expense and inconvenience. If they can't pay make them bankrupts. And ban them from all future flights on all airlines for perhaps 5 years.
Customer behavior is apauling all around the world on flights.
As a frequent flyer in Asia and Europe I see unacceptable behavior on every flight. Customers not turning off their electronics, talking on phone . Not staying in their seats.
Unruly children , people drinking alcohol brought on plane. They now need police and containment cells on every plane. It should not be flight attendant job to be police for societies misfits.
Donald Trump has triggered all of this bad behavior.
Yes because Trump pushes the let someone else pay for your college and you don't need to follow the law to come to the United States and let's let criminals out of jail and hey don't get a job just have more kids and we'll send you more money.
The entitlement mindset definitely falls directly on Trumps back... btw you're quite dim!
This behavior is very much like that occurred in blue cities across the country. And applauded by the left. Tiny
No, it's because of Trump, you racist moron.
just ban booze; 99% of these morons are drunk. why even have booze on a flight. wtf.
There must be strict consequences for disruptive passengers who threaten everyone's safety by disregarding flight crews. Jail time, banning from any US flights, severe fines, etc. It is ridiculous the way we cater to disruptive flyers. Its often alcohol related or self deserved behaviours. Stop the insanity
“Addressing disruptive passengers on flights requires a comprehensive approach that prioritizes safety and considers the root causes of such behavior. In addition to strict consequences, airlines could collaborate with mental health professionals to develop intervention programs for individuals with recurring disruptive incidents. These programs could focus on addressing underlying issues like stress, anxiety, or anger management. Offering incentives for passengers who exhibit exemplary behavior during flights might also promote a positive travel atmosphere. Moreover, enhancing...
“Addressing disruptive passengers on flights requires a comprehensive approach that prioritizes safety and considers the root causes of such behavior. In addition to strict consequences, airlines could collaborate with mental health professionals to develop intervention programs for individuals with recurring disruptive incidents. These programs could focus on addressing underlying issues like stress, anxiety, or anger management. Offering incentives for passengers who exhibit exemplary behavior during flights might also promote a positive travel atmosphere. Moreover, enhancing communication between flight crews and passengers through pre-flight announcements about expected conduct and the consequences of disruptive behavior could help set clear expectations. By combining preventive measures with supportive interventions, we can foster a more respectful and harmonious travel experience for everyone on board.
I think airlines should just stop serving liquor! If you fail to follow rules and regulations they should lock you up for 5 years...
No one wins because of a disruptive passenger. Why shouldn't that passenger should be banned from flying?
It doesn't seem, from the news article, that this passenger posed any threat, seems more that crew was annoyed by his behavior.
I wholeheartedly agree! Everyone else is being penalized instead of the brat. We cannot continue to condone this behavior.
They should have a holding cell on planes so they don't have to turn around. The unruly passenger spends the rest of the flight in jail where they belong!
Is there not a protocol to restrain the customer and duct tape them to the seat. I'm sure if the airline crew was incapable there would be plenty of volunteers to help
I'm sure you're right! Now. Where's the duct tape?
Number one, as a retired flight attendant, when I was flying there WERE disruptive passengers
we just had to deal with. NOW? The F/A crew has more authority and the pilots are more apt to listen. However, generally people are selfish and want what they want and don’t care who
it disrupts. In that case turn turn around and have security meet the aircraft. Maybe people will wake up. You cannot mess around...
Number one, as a retired flight attendant, when I was flying there WERE disruptive passengers
we just had to deal with. NOW? The F/A crew has more authority and the pilots are more apt to listen. However, generally people are selfish and want what they want and don’t care who
it disrupts. In that case turn turn around and have security meet the aircraft. Maybe people will wake up. You cannot mess around with an airplane/crew and behaving passengers. Especially out over the ocean. Period.
Dealing with disruptive passengers is crucial for maintaining safety and order on flights. To minimize the need for turning around over the ocean, airlines can implement a multi-pronged approach. Firstly, a comprehensive pre-flight briefing for all passengers should emphasize the importance of respecting fellow travelers and the flight crew.
Airlines can also invest in enhanced crew training, equipping them with effective de-escalation techniques to handle challenging situations calmly and professionally. Creating a protocol for immediate...
Dealing with disruptive passengers is crucial for maintaining safety and order on flights. To minimize the need for turning around over the ocean, airlines can implement a multi-pronged approach. Firstly, a comprehensive pre-flight briefing for all passengers should emphasize the importance of respecting fellow travelers and the flight crew.
Airlines can also invest in enhanced crew training, equipping them with effective de-escalation techniques to handle challenging situations calmly and professionally. Creating a protocol for immediate intervention when disruptive behavior arises will help nip potential issues in the bud.
Furthermore, collaborating with relevant authorities and law enforcement to swiftly respond to serious disruptions can deter unruly behavior. Publicizing the consequences of disruptive actions, such as hefty fines or bans, will serve as a deterrent.
Lastly, leveraging technology to track and identify repeat offenders across different airlines can be an effective measure in curbing disruptive incidents.
You restrain the asshole for the duration of the flight. I'm sure other passengers would assist so the flight can continue. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one! You DO NOT turn the plane around and inconvenience everyone! Have we not learned anything from 9/11?!!
Perhaps it is time for passengers to sign an agreement/contract to abide by the rules of the airline and be financially liable to all others on the flight if they break the rules...could charge it to their CC. The sense of entitlement expressed by many has gotten way out of line thanks to some prominent names who flaunt all the behaviors of a civilized society including any sense of
decorum, honor, compassion, grace, sportsmanship,...
Perhaps it is time for passengers to sign an agreement/contract to abide by the rules of the airline and be financially liable to all others on the flight if they break the rules...could charge it to their CC. The sense of entitlement expressed by many has gotten way out of line thanks to some prominent names who flaunt all the behaviors of a civilized society including any sense of
decorum, honor, compassion, grace, sportsmanship, cooperation,
consideration ... humanity in general. They obviously flunked Kindergarten.
TRULY DISGUSTING.
Super VC10 Guest thought somehow that this article was about Trump. Generally, most of the time the trouble on aircraft are liberals who think they are it. Maybe the passenger was related to Hunter. That is as much possible that's its Trump's fault. I am a retired law enforcement officer and most of the people I arrested that voted were Democrats, so I guess you can say it's Biden's fault. Actually, I only believe it...
Super VC10 Guest thought somehow that this article was about Trump. Generally, most of the time the trouble on aircraft are liberals who think they are it. Maybe the passenger was related to Hunter. That is as much possible that's its Trump's fault. I am a retired law enforcement officer and most of the people I arrested that voted were Democrats, so I guess you can say it's Biden's fault. Actually, I only believe it is one person's fault and that was the idiot they removed from the plane. Individual responsibility is what is important and many people have forgotten it.
“Thank you for sharing your perspective based on your experience as a retired law enforcement officer. While individual responsibility is vital, it’s crucial not to associate incidents on aircraft or any situation with a particular political group. Such events can have complex causes, and attributing them solely to a political belief can be misleading. Let’s remember to consider multiple factors and avoid making generalizations. Encouraging open dialogue and understanding can help us address issues more...
“Thank you for sharing your perspective based on your experience as a retired law enforcement officer. While individual responsibility is vital, it’s crucial not to associate incidents on aircraft or any situation with a particular political group. Such events can have complex causes, and attributing them solely to a political belief can be misleading. Let’s remember to consider multiple factors and avoid making generalizations. Encouraging open dialogue and understanding can help us address issues more effectively.
Or perhaps he was a MAGA idiot who thought the rules didn’t pertain to him considering who their leader is…..
So. If I understand correctly, you ask someone their party affiliation while you are arresting them. And. All this crap DID start with the Trump.
Fascinating. Did you make it a habit of asking those you arrested their political affiliation? No, you didn't, and we all know it. You complained about someone making this incident political then you... got political.
Fascinating. Did you make it a habit to inquire as to the political affiliation of those you arrested? No, you didn't, and everyone knows it. You complained that someone had made this incident political, then you... got political. Pot meet kettle.
People have irrational opinions of themselves and their importance. To be that selfish and inconsiderate of others and the crew becomes criminal behavior. I hope he is severely punished.
I personally would rather be safe than sorry. There was no way to know, for fact, whether this passenger was or was not under the influence or experiencing mental health issues. With either issue, you never know what these people will do that will possibly endanger the flight & all the crew & passengers, for example, the recent case of the passenger who actually opened one of the exit doors on arrival to the airport prior to even touching down.
Parents raising intitaled children, thats the problem....then you got some morons that want to try and blame Trump for everything...Hell I'm sure he was the reason I was kicked out of my house at 17.....
The airline should charge the disruptive passenger for the full cost impact, and ban this person
The FAA should set up a no-fly list for ALL disruptive passengers
The FAA should also issue a fine painful enough to drive the right behavior, including allowing each and everyone else on the flight to sue such person for their respective impact
Currently, the penalty, if actually carried out, dies not reflect the true cost. And we all...
The airline should charge the disruptive passenger for the full cost impact, and ban this person
The FAA should set up a no-fly list for ALL disruptive passengers
The FAA should also issue a fine painful enough to drive the right behavior, including allowing each and everyone else on the flight to sue such person for their respective impact
Currently, the penalty, if actually carried out, dies not reflect the true cost. And we all end up funding this type of behavior as the airlines will need to recup their loss by raising fares
This was the question I had been asking myself for some time but came to a conclusion after considering our laws in the U.S which protect stupid people. You will never see this behavior on other airlines because the passengers know that when they get back to their country 1. They will not be treated well while in jail, their is a high possibility they won't even eat well. 2. Law breakers here get free...
This was the question I had been asking myself for some time but came to a conclusion after considering our laws in the U.S which protect stupid people. You will never see this behavior on other airlines because the passengers know that when they get back to their country 1. They will not be treated well while in jail, their is a high possibility they won't even eat well. 2. Law breakers here get free medical attention which we the tax payers can't even afford. They even have a great dental plan that most hard working Americans can't afford. 3. These law breakers (idiots) can be provided a lawyer at tax payers expense. The list of benefits for them is endless.
Why not finish the flight and arrest him at the other end.
It seems that the US airline crews, and United airlines especially, have come to the believe that an entire passengers are to be punished for the slightest "inconvenience" of the crew -
A former President who’s last name rhymes with Grump, was a God Awful role model. His juvenile behavior is now displayed by many of his MAGA supporters in public settings. They are an embarrassment to America.
Hey, Ryan (guest)!
Do you investigate the political leanings of each idiot who gets booted of a commercial airplane?
trump proud here. you voted for biden, your an idiot. you still live in your childhood bedroom. loser
Just a quick question Ryan. When did U get out of the Trump Derangement Insane Asylum ? My God get ahold of yourself ! U’r the one we should all be watching closely. You’re psychotic
Americans have an entitled mentality especially in foreign countries
How do you know it was an American? The are assholes in every country!
It's embarrassing to be an American
It's called ignorance + delusion + blind patriotism.
Something is seriously wrong with or in the United States.
I live in Australia and no such thing happens here (at least not that I have ever heard of).
Super v guest, you are a jerk. Don't blame President Trump for someone else's bad behavior. Guess Hunter is an upstanding son of the man currently occupying the White House.
Obama opened up the "do what you want" and no respect for authority mentality after the Ferguson riots. People in other countries know there will be a serious consequence if they act a fool on a plane. Americans act all ghetto because our society allows it.
It's obviously the privileged mentality of the people from the USA.
Lets keep politics out of this, the passenger should pay for the costs icuured due to poor behaviour, and then banned for 5 years by that airline.
@super VC10. You are a special kind of stupid.
The answer to your question is: both. America has more spoiled and immature adults who can afford to fly, and American flight attendants are less patient and more empowered.
Only in America!
I mean if their Law enforcement has no regard for human life, why would American airlines, be any different.
Maybe it is time to find a way to take care about unruly passengers instead diverting entire plane full of passengers Maybe they could be locked in the bathroom or other small room on the plane. This for sure will be less costly.
Americans are too rough when dealing with passengers who are difficult also their service is far inferior compared to foreign airlines! I avoid flying on US airlines when ever possible.
Too tough?? NOT TOUGH ENOUGH! what gives these a-holes the right to supercede the rights of every other paying Customer! They should receive a LIFELONG PROHIBITION from flying!!
Is there not a protocol to restrain the customer and duct tape them to the seat. I'm sure if the airline crew was incapable there would be plenty of volunteers to help
It seems that the US airline crews, and United airlines especially, have come to the believe that an entire passengers are to be punished for the slightest "inconvenience" of the crew - flown with many foreign airlines, way better service, and common sense is actually applied - hence the not having the "disruptive " passenger that have asked a stupid question or one that the crew didn't like
These stories are nearly useless if you don't publicize the full consequences, e.g. large fines and serious jail time. You aren't dissuading similar behavior. Have the perp spend some time with Bubba behind bars and bad actors might reform.
Flight crew on US carriers simply think they are the boss and forget that passengers are the clients. I don’t have enough info on this particular flight but it’s no surprise to me that it’s mostly US carriers that do this. That’s why I try to avoid US carriers when traveling
No proper pre boarding screening for passengers under the influence. You can tell when your in line if you see someone looking or acting strange.
Why do we let these losers get away with this kind of crap?? You should be banned from flying on a public commercial aircraft for life.
The passenger needs to be billed for the cost of the turnaround
Cheap fares entice Cheap people to fly. Days are gone when men wore coats and women wore dresses. Back then flying was a special occasion. Now nothing but white trash and 13%ers. What a pity
This type of nuissance can be done with if an unruly passenger can be legally knocked out and put to sleep for the duration of the flight. Now the airlines can figure out how to do it.
Great idea John Doe!
The airlines needs a mile high prison. Place the snowflake in there and hand them over when you arrive. No need to turn around.
This was the right decision because you never know how bad the passenger would have become later on into the flight. If the passenger was already told twice to return to his seat then returned and appeared to to be under the influence. This was a recipe for disaster. Good call.
Too rough in what manner? This passenger did not follow instructions by the crew. Who knows what he may have done later during that flight. Open a door to leave the plane over the Pacific?
The doors cannot be opened when the cabin is pressurized.
He was being facetious.
Yes, Americans have become unruly, rude, annoying, it has nothing to do with Trump, is thanks to the entitlement people are raised now, ungrateful brats that thinks that the whole world is here to please them! Starts at home! They even dressed like they are going to bed, there are no manners or limits or respect for authority.
“I appreciate your perspective on this matter. It’s essential to recognize that societal changes can result from a combination of factors, including cultural shifts and generational values. While upbringing plays a significant role in shaping behavior, it’s also crucial to consider broader influences like media, education, and economic dynamics. Engaging in open conversations about manners, respect, and empathy can help address concerns and work towards building a more considerate society. Let’s strive for understanding and...
“I appreciate your perspective on this matter. It’s essential to recognize that societal changes can result from a combination of factors, including cultural shifts and generational values. While upbringing plays a significant role in shaping behavior, it’s also crucial to consider broader influences like media, education, and economic dynamics. Engaging in open conversations about manners, respect, and empathy can help address concerns and work towards building a more considerate society. Let’s strive for understanding and empathy as we navigate these societal complexities together.”
Nailed it. There are generations who just have no respect for people or authority. They live in a bubble of self righteousness. We've spared the rod and spoiled the adult.
Weird I have seen tons of foreigners behaving badly in foreign countries including on planes, but by all means let us pretend it is only Americans.
I beg to differ with your opinion.
You can thank their conservative Self-righteous parents
in my experience American passengers are the worst behaved. I say this is a proud American.
@Super VC10.......You're an idiot. Why do you feel the need to politicize every goddam thing? No one likes you, and may all your flights be delayed.
Supervc10 has tds! He's blaming bad flying behavior on trump now. It's hot today 104 where i live. Can i blame trump?
Responding to (super VC10)
It's essential to recognize that political figures can have a significant influence on public perception and behavior. However, it's crucial to approach such discussions with empathy, open-mindedness, and a focus on constructive dialogue. While Donald J. Trump's presidency may have sparked various reactions and interpretations, it's essential to remember that individual actions and attitudes are shaped by a multitude of factors, including personal beliefs, upbringing, and societal influences.
When responding...
Responding to (super VC10)
It's essential to recognize that political figures can have a significant influence on public perception and behavior. However, it's crucial to approach such discussions with empathy, open-mindedness, and a focus on constructive dialogue. While Donald J. Trump's presidency may have sparked various reactions and interpretations, it's essential to remember that individual actions and attitudes are shaped by a multitude of factors, including personal beliefs, upbringing, and societal influences.
When responding to such comments, you can express your perspective while encouraging respectful and understanding communication. It's essential to address concerns about societal rules and encourage responsible citizenship while acknowledging the diversity of opinions and experiences that exist within society. Remember to focus on building bridges rather than fueling division when engaging in discussions about political figures and their impact on society.
Nicely said. Trump says stuff, people react and some get outraged. The pro Trump media runs it on repeat, outraging more people. The anti Trump media runs it on repeat, outraging different people. Biden says stuff and the whole cycle repeats in the other direction.
What I don’t understand is why people willingly give so much of their precious time to the outrage machines?
Another reason why people might willingly engage with the outrage machines is the human tendency to seek information that aligns with their existing beliefs and values. This phenomenon is known as confirmation bias, and it can lead individuals to consume content that reinforces their preconceived notions, even if it perpetuates outrage. As a result, they become more entrenched in their positions, and the cycle of outrage continues. Encouraging open-mindedness and critical thinking can help individuals...
Another reason why people might willingly engage with the outrage machines is the human tendency to seek information that aligns with their existing beliefs and values. This phenomenon is known as confirmation bias, and it can lead individuals to consume content that reinforces their preconceived notions, even if it perpetuates outrage. As a result, they become more entrenched in their positions, and the cycle of outrage continues. Encouraging open-mindedness and critical thinking can help individuals break free from the echo chambers and avoid getting consumed by the constant outrage.
The airlines need to start banning or putting them on a 'no fly' list. At least for a short while, till people start calming down. Start with 1 month, first offense. Or depending on the reason. I have not been on a flight with these customers that keep causing disruptions, but I know it would pi$$ me off. None of us want to be on that plane longer than we have to be. Cause either we are going to work, or a much needed holiday.
They should not be allowed to fly again. The hole flight was disrupted on their disregard for others.
The problem of bad behavior doesn't start after people board airplanes, it's a societal thing that when Americans believe their personal freedom is being taken away it impower them to do the same to others that may be unaware or unsuspecting.
Looks like the crew exercised poor judgement, if the passenger posed no actual risk. United is known for abusing passengers with little or no justification.
From what has been presented here how exactly are you able to make this determination?
Oh, plz... don't politicize this. There are some people in this country that just don't have a clue how to behave when trvlng or just plain don't have any manners.
I pay for as pleasant a flight as possible.
Biden and the democrats have encouraged and supported this anti social behavior everyday
I want the airlines to turn around and then we need to lock these people up for life.
In the last 3 years this antisocial behavior is becoming the norm with full support of all leftists.
The Democrats (nor Biden) have nothing to do with encouraging anti-social behaviour on aircraft. US citizens are generally just more demanding and entitled than passengers from other countries, plus airports serving liquor, and airlines doing so also, seem to exacerbate this nasty behaviour. Don't blame the "leftists" but it WOULD be interesting to find out which political party these disruptive arses support, just for the fun of it.
this is a strange comment here as many of the disruptions during the pandemic where people refusing to wear masks or wearing them improperly. statistically these people are much more likely to be Trump supporters than Democrats.
You are completely off your mark of when Americans have started to act poorly and your thinly veiled attempt at making this a political rant is noted. #pitiful
Instead of making every situation a political one, try holding people responsible for THEIR OWN behavior and actions.
Biden? Wow! Clearly you also must be on something or delusional if you truly believe anti-social behavior is encouraged by Biden. Pls return to Jan. 6th as a starter!
Ridiculous comment. There are rude, inconsiderate maladapts of all stripes.
Yes I hear my 5 year old nephew blaming someone else for his bad behavior all the time. In America you find a 40 year old blaming someone else or an institution for their bad actions. Please grow up or at least pretend to be.
Democrats' and President Biden's fault?
Lots of videos of Europeans and Asians fighting in the aisles. Chinese woman throwing hot tea in the face of a Thai flight attendant. It goes on everywhere. But I think you’re right they don’t divert so easily and don’t even arrest at destinations.
What exactly did this passenger want that it couldn't be addressed such as if he needed a water give it to him
Oh Cori, he didn't want water:)
Slap the shit out of them and tie and gag them till you land and then jail them for 5 years and it will probably stop. Moms didn't raise them right.
Absofrickenlutely!
, I totally agree with you. People aren't getting slapped for bad behavior and that's the main problem.
Can't be stopped completely, but can be minimized drastically by,
Banned from flying on any airline for 5 years
Forced to repay the airline for any loss
$5,000 fine
60 days in jail
The wasted fuel, crew salaries and airport fees would have been many times more than the $5,000 fine. Perhaps a higher fine and being barred from airlines for 5 to 10 years plus compensation to the airline and airport would be appropriate.
Agreed. Plus have them liable for any civil suits brought about by individuals that incurred losses.
Seems like maybe staff should be more vigilant during boarding. I find it odd that people just suddenly start acting out shortly after take off, but they were perfectly normal while waiting to board.
Super VC0,
The only elephant in the room is actually sitting on your head, trying to deflate the hot air that sits between your ears. You obviously didn't vote for Trump, that's ok, I don't think he she'd one tear over that. Get off your high horse and the band wagon you rode in on..
I would tend to agree with you (although I am a Mod Dem and don't care for Trump....he is extremely rude and crass) but politicians are not responsible for other human's behaviours on air carriers.
TDS: Trump Derangement Syndrome. noun. The neurotic belief that all things disagreeable to a misguided poster are the result of, and the fault of, one former U.S. president. They appear to be beyond help. Steer clear of such people, to the extent possible.
The tail is wagging the dog. The more it is allowed the more political power you gain.
I think all alcoholic drinks should be removed from airport bars, restaurants and airline lounges. Airlines should only serve on flight and should charge like old times and like domestic flights.
Very good idea
The guy was on drugs. He didn't seem to make a scene. But as for the dozens of people making scenes en route, the airport today is a perfect example of how the citizenry is treated like cattle. And in-flight like sardines. If they can remove more space in the seats and the bathroom, you know they will. Not to mention the gouging prices. Now social media has become the primary tool in shaming anyone...
The guy was on drugs. He didn't seem to make a scene. But as for the dozens of people making scenes en route, the airport today is a perfect example of how the citizenry is treated like cattle. And in-flight like sardines. If they can remove more space in the seats and the bathroom, you know they will. Not to mention the gouging prices. Now social media has become the primary tool in shaming anyone who retaliates, who gets emotional. Emotional? How dare you, you're supposed to accept being exploited by the elites, the government, corporations, and whatever you do don't pay attention to what's happening in France. Here's an article about Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk in tights.
The Trump Derangement Syndrome comments are priceless! He really does does live rent free in in you nutbags heads.
I think a part of it must be US cabin crew having a lower tolerance for shenanigans, and IMHO it’s a good thing. I was flying Lufthansa F a couple years ago and there was a celebrity across the aisle who followed zero instructions and was just horrible to the cabin crew. I would’ve been happy to take a 9 hour delay to see police drag her off the airplane, and if it was United that’s exactly what would’ve happened. Lufthansa crew just rolled their eyes.
It is disheartening to see what our civilization is turning into. A decision not to serve alcohol at the airport and in the aircrafts would eleminate a lot of the problems.
And what does Donald Trump have to do with it? Some liberal still blaming him for a disruptive passenger. Com on man!
Sorry to say that u may not win the case. Don't forget that pilots and crew are there for ya safety and once this safety is in doubt or compromised, they can take decisions which include but not limited to " Air Returns "
What if it is a hijack? Will you count your lost hours? So we should be guided accordingly. Thanks
Sorry but simply refusing to sit down does not pose a safety risk itself. Maybe it would have escalated to that, odds are it wouldnt have since he was settled before they landed.
Trump the petulant child was the one who has been displaying bad characters all these years and many peoples have following his bad examples. it is sad but that's the reality in USA especially his followers.
What a dumb comment. So Trump is responsible for peoples bad behavior?
What a ass and iron answer putting politics about a person on a plane go find hunter you seem to be in his league
It started with obama and his weak minded followers .
Time to start lawsuits against disruptive passengers!
Just when you thought you were safe, Trump Derangement Syndrome raises its ugly head in a totally non-related context.
Yep, they’re everywhere. So sad the truth of Maxine Waters and the democrats before her that encouraged ignoring the rules and getting in the face of people.
I'm sorry wasn't it Trump who offered to pay the legal expenses of his followers if they engaged in violence against others?
Because this country, via the media, shows people you can do stupid stuff, walk into stores and steal, disrespect authority and pretty much walk away with a slap on the wrist.... to do it again!
United outta ban him for life!
If they prosecuted and sentenced these cases as they should then people would get the idea that maybe there are consequences for there actions
Prosecute for what? What is would be the sentence for not committing a crime? Simply being a difficult person is not a crime on its own.
This is reflective of the overall decline of our country and our civilization. It does not bode well for the future.
To the person who commented on the "elephant in the room": WHAT are you talking about??? Trump is as responsible for this passenger's behavior as "Biden" (a very corrupt senile person), is responsible for YOUR behavior! Stop placing blame where it doesn't belong!
Paul T, you most definitely voted for Biden.
Yes and lets not forget all the riots Donald started in major cities while he was POTUS. OH, MY MISTAKE. It was the woke left and company that starts and does all the rioting and burning private businesses.
The riots while Trump was president, were criminals infiltrating protest of police brutality. They were not the "woke left" pushing riots. On the other hand the riots of J6 can be directly attributed to Trump's incitement. The criminals in both cases should be held accountable.
It'd be nice to see Congress do something useful for once. How about a national no-fly registry for people who have shown themselves unable to behave for the duration of a flight? How insane IS it that this guy could just fly on another airline, and do the same thing, the next day?
Could it be we have created a culture that has no repercussions or accountability? There is no "fear" of not following the "social norm" or "laws". How many other countries can you "sneak" into and then be released to show up at court later? Cash bond's are now considered repressive, we let those being arrested go with a promise of doing better. A lack of accountability in public schools is destroying the ability of students...
Could it be we have created a culture that has no repercussions or accountability? There is no "fear" of not following the "social norm" or "laws". How many other countries can you "sneak" into and then be released to show up at court later? Cash bond's are now considered repressive, we let those being arrested go with a promise of doing better. A lack of accountability in public schools is destroying the ability of students to learn due to other disruptions. We are surprised an intoxicated person on a flight does not follow the rules. As a collective community we are making the choice for no personal responsibility, we also get to enjoy the collective consequences.
Agree 100%
More consequents are needed. Where is the No Fly list?
I guess taking milions in payoffs from adversaries is NOT doing whatever you want, passing out student loan forgiveness, and disregarding Supreme Court decisións also NOT doing as you please. My point is this man made his own choice to disrupt the day of hundreds of people and did not need a disliked forner President to give him the reason to do it. It could have easily been Antifa for that matter. No, he was...
I guess taking milions in payoffs from adversaries is NOT doing whatever you want, passing out student loan forgiveness, and disregarding Supreme Court decisións also NOT doing as you please. My point is this man made his own choice to disrupt the day of hundreds of people and did not need a disliked forner President to give him the reason to do it. It could have easily been Antifa for that matter. No, he was just a one in a million idiot who never should have boarded that flight and would have likely done this without a Trump, Biden or other criminal to inspire him.
I was a flight attendant for UAL for 15 years and I could write a book on behaving badly on airplanes. I know that some won't like it, but it's always been a white American male who thinks that they can do whatever pleases them and that they deserve more than anyone else.
There are plenty of videos that counter your ‘always’ comment. Maybe a little observation or better use of words would help.
Who pays for the fuel, crew cost, certainly spoiled meal service, etc? If the airlines and judges imposed mandatory restitution to the airline, perhaps that would convince people to behave,
Don’t divert the flight, inconveniencing all the passengers. The plane needs a (very small) “time-out” room to lock the unruly passenger in for the duration of the flight. Maybe part of the cargo space. Passengers would cheer and it might act as a deterrent to those thinking of acting out.
How do we even know what caused the situation on this flight ? Was it drugs, was it alcohol, was it bad behavior, or was it some medical issue that was causing this person to behave poorly? We don't really know we don't have enough information to judge. But I will agree that alcohol being served in the airport and in flight is unnecessary, I see no reason for it to be served. I'm sure...
How do we even know what caused the situation on this flight ? Was it drugs, was it alcohol, was it bad behavior, or was it some medical issue that was causing this person to behave poorly? We don't really know we don't have enough information to judge. But I will agree that alcohol being served in the airport and in flight is unnecessary, I see no reason for it to be served. I'm sure there will be repercussions for this person but we just don't know what the situation is to even judge, so stop judging.
A possible reason could also be that North American crew put safety first and take these measures by informing the pilot who has the final day. With Asian carriers I have noticed they don't like and avoid direct confrontation or telling disruptive passengers off and are more lenient or forgiving even in cases of bad behaviour. I was travelling business class on Malaysian Airlines (MH) when I noticed a Scottish drunk pax also in business...
A possible reason could also be that North American crew put safety first and take these measures by informing the pilot who has the final day. With Asian carriers I have noticed they don't like and avoid direct confrontation or telling disruptive passengers off and are more lenient or forgiving even in cases of bad behaviour. I was travelling business class on Malaysian Airlines (MH) when I noticed a Scottish drunk pax also in business class being obnoxious and disruptive and when I got up to go to the loo he was standing in the aisle being talked to the cabin crew manager and without any provocation he insulted me calling me a hideously homophobic slur so I ignored him to avoid further dramas, the CC Manager clearly heard him so after returning to my seat I called the manager and complained as the drunk was also harrassing a female pax minding her own biz. I insisted on the airline via the pilot to stop serving him any more alcohol so I asked if they had reported him to the authorities on arrival in Melbourne and they hadn't so I asked they call the AFP and they finally agreed to and as it turned out I happened to know the acting airport AFP senior officer on duty who told me that unfortunately MH did not want to and had not lodged any formal complaints against this pax so all they could do was have a chat to him, I was appalled, not just as his vile behaviour but at the lack of action and interest on the part of the airline. I do not fly business or any other class to be verbally or even physically assaulted by anyone and I wish all carriers were less lenient with these disruptive passengers!
It was a bad decision. UA should let the guy sit in the business class. Then bill him for it afterwards. If he doesn't pay. Take it to court. That's a very easy way to deescalate and cost no one any harm or money.
It isn't just United Airlines, it's just the ones you hear about there I suppose. In reality, it's all of them. I live in Spain and so I see and hear of many European flights. Check out Westjet and Ryanair flights. They have nearly weekly fights on board with passengers and crew. Mostly plastered passengers always causing problems. One HUGE difference you aren't hearing about it is due to EU privacy laws which forbid you...
It isn't just United Airlines, it's just the ones you hear about there I suppose. In reality, it's all of them. I live in Spain and so I see and hear of many European flights. Check out Westjet and Ryanair flights. They have nearly weekly fights on board with passengers and crew. Mostly plastered passengers always causing problems. One HUGE difference you aren't hearing about it is due to EU privacy laws which forbid you from taking photos or recording anyone on flights in Europe, so there isn't as much "proof" or evidence like you can get in North America.
This is why we have chloroform, tasers, and handcuffs.
This is unacceptable. Now as I have read the comments and I am no fan of Drumpf but I have to say do NOT solely blame him. The major disruptive shite going on in America starting with looting, riots, fake rights BS, etc. is largely due to the far Left and their cloaked operators. If you think otherwise you must be brainwashed or braindead.
You people have trump in your pea brains 24-7. Get a life. How does this have anything to do with trump? Democrats really are mentally ill. Makes me happy to think about the misery headed to this country.
You mean the problem is do to the corrupt republican party. Period!
When I was a flight attendant many years ago, we were considered federal employees. If you threatened us, It was one thing. But if you touched us, It could be a 20-year jail sentence. Now they pat them on the head and tell them oh we're just going to ban you for life from this airline. This sends a message The bed behavior is tolerated and that the passenger is always "right". We also had...
When I was a flight attendant many years ago, we were considered federal employees. If you threatened us, It was one thing. But if you touched us, It could be a 20-year jail sentence. Now they pat them on the head and tell them oh we're just going to ban you for life from this airline. This sends a message The bed behavior is tolerated and that the passenger is always "right". We also had an uniformed disguised federal air marshals in the air with us which made it easier to de-escalate bad behavior on a passengers part. They need to bring the air Marshalls back on board. Sometimes just showing a badge is not enough another times it can be enough. Last point, I hate to see other passengers get involved to hold the passenger down who is basically acting like a baby throwing a tantrum. These passengers can get hurt and then they can turn around and sue their life for the unruly passenger. I know they're trying to help, But sometimes it makes the situation worse, not better for both the bad behavior passenger and the airline employee who's involved in that particular situation.
It's called American privilege. Most of us have been raised believing we are THE best country in the world, and therefore can do whatever we want, where and whenever we want. It's disgusting, but the world sees it every day. Tourists are the absolute worst, and it almost always involves money and/or alcohol.
I truly loathe this truth, and refuse to travel and tour by myself. It's much easier to stay undercover, and I...
It's called American privilege. Most of us have been raised believing we are THE best country in the world, and therefore can do whatever we want, where and whenever we want. It's disgusting, but the world sees it every day. Tourists are the absolute worst, and it almost always involves money and/or alcohol.
I truly loathe this truth, and refuse to travel and tour by myself. It's much easier to stay undercover, and I apologize for their behavior.
I know
It's appalling...
American Karen's LOL.... They breed there
Just make an announcement: Should we turn back, or would you passengers want to handle this?
Are gate ticket staff not trained or instructed to perform a basic triage process on passenger condition. Alcohol or drug consumption provide telltale symptoms. Concerns about passenger safety can be handled in the boarding area and not in-flight.
Some US passengers feel SO entitled to want what they want. We need to always think how our actions and wants impact others and "put a sock in it" as my Mother used to say
I cannot believe somebody would even consider blaming Donald Trump! Maybe if airlines would quit serving alcohol, they would have less problems. How about they get a pair of handcuffs and handcuff the person to their chair.
First, Donald Trump has nothing to do with unruly passengers. It's personal choice to act like as ass. Stop blaming others, we are or should be acting in a respectful and mature manner no matter who or where we are. But this passenger caused many problems and should be responsible for everyone's inconvenience. That consequence may reduced the number of these incidents.
In what world does the leader of a country not impact how the citizens behave? If the president can be an a-hole then why can't I?
Because you want to be a good person. If you don't want to be a good person, that's on you and no one else.
How do you know this person was even American that they would be influenced by the ex president?
I agree....your comment is precise, based on facts and does NOT provide an excuse for these behaviors.
America as a society is in a degenerating state and it is showing in all aspects of our daily lives. This sence of entitlement which says as Americans we can do, say and behave any which way we please, to hell with everyone else. Heaven help us all.
Now Canadiens put their flag on their knapsack, NOT for "MAGA" reasons, Canada doesn't have to be made great again. No, but so countries like Italy, France etc etc can tell the difference & stop putting all North Americans in the same " obnoxious barrel ". Good people everywhere.
Can the Airline recover cost form the unruly customer. Americans usually respond if the penalty AKA cost to then is high enough.
Lol I see one person blaming DJT. So passengers behaving badly only started in the last 6 years? Please it has been happening for a long time. Unfortunately there are many issues which probably triggers it, ) delays that are not explained properly by airlines. 2) rude airline employees 3) lower fares which allows low EQ persons to travel. I have been traveling for over 30 years and been delayed etc and never was tempted...
Lol I see one person blaming DJT. So passengers behaving badly only started in the last 6 years? Please it has been happening for a long time. Unfortunately there are many issues which probably triggers it, ) delays that are not explained properly by airlines. 2) rude airline employees 3) lower fares which allows low EQ persons to travel. I have been traveling for over 30 years and been delayed etc and never was tempted to behave like how I see people behaving. And I have travelled with very young kids and they NEVER misbehaved. It’s about the people misbehaving, arrogant idiots who should never be on an airplane.
Looks like some Americans went nuts in 2015. Fighting on planes, threatening goverment employees and their families, displaying pirn in Congress, banning books and open displays of racism. Guess who came on the schene that year.
You are a moron. Did you actually read the books that parents and some law makers are opposed to having in school libraries? I bet you did not read them. Go find one that people oppose and read it. If you are ok with that kind of books in a library that kids can read then you are evil. Not one of these law makers want the books banned, stop watching stupid new casts and...
You are a moron. Did you actually read the books that parents and some law makers are opposed to having in school libraries? I bet you did not read them. Go find one that people oppose and read it. If you are ok with that kind of books in a library that kids can read then you are evil. Not one of these law makers want the books banned, stop watching stupid new casts and listening to liars. They want them removed from SCHOOL libraries where kids younger than 8 can see and read. As for threatening government employees, where the heck were you in 2020 when BLM thugs were burning down cities? You really are an idiot
No. OP is actually, mostly right.
Parents need to monitor their own children and stop trying to monitor kids who aren't theirs. It's the people who ban books who haven't read them and are terrified of ideas
I notice that the recent flights that had disruptions, I have read about, were traveling to other countries. Why does everyone assume that the unruly passengers were American?
I feel that if anyone is disruptive on a flight they should be temporarily banned from flying. If you cause a flight to be turned around, well you should be permanently banned from flying.
as a 42 year airline captain I can tell you that if a passenger gets that disruptive after takeoff, it will only get worse which is why the decision was made to return. If i had a disruptive pax at the gate, I removed them before takeoff as it will only get worse. I had zero tolerance and it prevented alot of headaches enroute
Good for your Captain Steve. There is way too many things that pilots have to be concerned about and focused on, I want them focused on flying my butt safely to my destination. Be safe and God Bless
Good for your Captain Steve. There is way too many things that pilots have to be concerned about and focused on, I want them focused on flying my butt safely to my destination. Be safe and God Bless
Captain made correct decision. Let’s hope airlines will place these disruptive passengers on a no fly list and they can ride the bus or ship for their future travel plans. Let’s also hope the judicial process holds them responsible for the economic repercussions.
I think the issue is the 12 hour flight with a complicated passenger is the reason the captain opted to return. Will be the same with other carriers.
Well, I can tell you, I wish other airlines would follow suit after experiencing a 9 hour flight from Stockholm to Chicago on 7/19/23 with a disruptive passenger and the flight attendants of Scandinavian Airlines didn't do *anything to help the ongoing situation that I could see. I have no doubt that the entire passenger list would have been thrilled to have a detour so he (along with his family) could have been escorted off...
Well, I can tell you, I wish other airlines would follow suit after experiencing a 9 hour flight from Stockholm to Chicago on 7/19/23 with a disruptive passenger and the flight attendants of Scandinavian Airlines didn't do *anything to help the ongoing situation that I could see. I have no doubt that the entire passenger list would have been thrilled to have a detour so he (along with his family) could have been escorted off our flight. The only time there was any peace to be had was when he catnapped for about an hour - beyond that, it was a nightmare. Honestly, it makes me more inclined to choose United Airlines after this, seeing their willingness to actually do something.
I love the blame Trump comment. The current administration ( I use the word loosely) is replete with scofflaws. Bailing out destructive rioters, stealing luggage, bribing heads of state, illegal quid pro quo, circumventing scotus decisions, cover ups, censoring opposition, etc. I'm reminded if an old blues number, "Before you 'cuse me, take a look at yourself". Funny, this type of merda rarely happened until this regime came in to lower
Well said Phyllis. I don’t blame current admin (even though there are evil and corrupt) for the bad stuff happening unless they wont prosecute them, even then I blame them partially but the persons disrupting,. Stealing etc are at fault. Sadly our culture encourages shifting blame, people see others breaking the law and getting away with it (black privilege) because they are a member of some “offended” group or they are friends family of someone...
Well said Phyllis. I don’t blame current admin (even though there are evil and corrupt) for the bad stuff happening unless they wont prosecute them, even then I blame them partially but the persons disrupting,. Stealing etc are at fault. Sadly our culture encourages shifting blame, people see others breaking the law and getting away with it (black privilege) because they are a member of some “offended” group or they are friends family of someone in power. That encourages bad behavior. We need to punish people who are found guilty of breaking the law no matter what skin color, who they sleep with or who their dad is. Justice is still blindfolded. More important, voters, stop electing people who wont apply the law equally. I am looking at you democrats.
You have to wonder how someone as old, incompetent and senile as Joe Biden can pull all that off.
Who can pull that off? Whoever writes his cue cards on what to say and do or which way to go to leave the podium.
@super Bc10 -that’s simply the most idiotic comment one could make. Donald Trump has nothing to do with this. Each Edson must own their own behavior. People acting badly on a plane or anywhere is no one’s responsibility but their own. Full stop!
There are regulations which require gate agents to deny boarding or deplane intoxicated passengers. These regulations are not given priority as the focus in the boarding area is usually on ensuring on time departure. A more thorough inspection of passengers in the boarding areas could illuminate such incidents.
There are regulations which require gate agents to deny boarding or deplane intoxicated passengers. These regulations are not given priority as the focus in the boarding area is usually on ensuring on time departure. A more thorough inspection of passengers in the boarding areas could illuminate such incidents. Safety is a serious concern in commercial aircraft ; if a passenger becomes unruly or refuses to follow reasonable crew instructions, there is a risk the the...
There are regulations which require gate agents to deny boarding or deplane intoxicated passengers. These regulations are not given priority as the focus in the boarding area is usually on ensuring on time departure. A more thorough inspection of passengers in the boarding areas could illuminate such incidents. Safety is a serious concern in commercial aircraft ; if a passenger becomes unruly or refuses to follow reasonable crew instructions, there is a risk the the situation could escalate to a more dangerous level. Safety first and I agree with that.
Americans have become much more entitled since the Trump era.
You see it overseas with American tourists getting quite rude that "American food" is not readily available, and that "foreigners" don't speak English.
I concur, Trump appeals to the opset of Presents Lincoln's better angles. Checkout one of Trumps mentors. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn
It is absolutely insane right?!? I live abroad and every single time I hear an American talking I start bracing for BS. Every demographic.
Why are these diversions typically on US airlines? - You really did not answer this question. I'm not sure if because he kept coming up to business class should cause a diversion. What is not mentioned is the reason or purpose each time.
Other airlines take action and subdued the disruptive passengers! I never fly USA airlines, this is a good example why !
Safety is the principal concern; if a passenger becomes unruly or refuses to follow reasonable crew instructions, there is a risk the the situation could escalate to a more dangerous level. Safety first and I agree with that.
Use more force - hold the person down - handcuff snd if be required gag the person. No more complying wuth these people.
Keep a log - never to fly again .
Donald Trump is responsible for individual airline passenger behavior? Who knew he was so powerful and influential over all of us! That’s an amazing elephant! LOL!!!!!!
Two thumbs up. Lol!
Many of the books currently banned (including 1984, The Grapes of Wrath, and many more) were required reading when I went to school.
Obviously no air marshall aboard that flight
Need to go back to grade school and learn good manners
Airmarshalls were a sick joke perpetrated by Bush to make Americans feel the need to be protected by the government
Till the bastard into the cargo Department if he gets any more disruptive open the door and toss him out
Charge all diversion expenses to the misbehaving passenger and ban this passenger on their plane
Duct tape him to his seat.
Now Canadiens put their flag on their knapsack, NOT for "MAGA" reasons, Canada doesn't have to be made great again. No, but so countries like Italy, France etc etc can tell the difference & stop putting all North Americans in the same " obnoxious barrel ". Good people everywhere.
United Airlines is like a 3rd world low class airline on international routes. Passenger should have flown Singapore Airlines or Air India. Those 2 are among the world's best.
Different topic
Idiotic comment, comparing Air India to Singapore, what planet do you live on ?
AIR INDIA?! I bet it is difficult to be disruptive when toilet doesn't work!!
I find American Airlines staff fairly hopeless when it comes to dealing with anything outside the ordinary. Just go back and inconvenience everybody is there easy answer. Poor training and crew are self entitled.
Do what Israel has done to stop the Highjakers, armed guards on planes. some large passenger ships have a Master at Arms with access to firearms and a lock up??
Crews on United are like prison wardens and power hungry. On my recent flight from London instead of a nice hello we were yelled at to board quickly. The steward got upset I was not fast enough putting my hand luggage in the overhead bin. The good thing was that he actually helped me. I avoid US airlines if I can.
You're right on the money
I think airlines should use all the tools and power not disrupt the fly. Perhaps unruled passanger shoulf be sedated and strapeed to the seat for the entire flight. Yes ,it violetes several cardinal laws but save cost, time and effort. Unsusal measures to unusual behavier
I wonder if diverting a flight for such a reason has any repercussions for the crew. It seems that if a crew is unable to de-escalate, unable to deal with the passenger, and quickly divert, then diversions will happen. On the other hand, if there is a feedback mechanism in place which would reward crew who are able to handle the problem, there would be fewer diversions. Overseas crews, especially those in Asia, know how...
I wonder if diverting a flight for such a reason has any repercussions for the crew. It seems that if a crew is unable to de-escalate, unable to deal with the passenger, and quickly divert, then diversions will happen. On the other hand, if there is a feedback mechanism in place which would reward crew who are able to handle the problem, there would be fewer diversions. Overseas crews, especially those in Asia, know how to handle things, American crews just cry divert and say they didn't feel safe. Americans really have the worst flight attendants - I'm saying this after flying for 50 years. Power-hungry, rude, and unable to do anything useful when the situation demands it.
I can’t help thinking that some zip ties and a roll or two of duct tape would save everybody a lot of grief.
Duct tape him to his seat is what I say too! ✌️✌️✌️
Was this passenger American or Taiwanese? Who even takes United’s SFO-TPE flights and fills those 777-300ERs? Is it mainly like tech company traffic? Why does United bother to fly this route on their own metal and with their largest plane when there’s already plenty of service with BR, CI, and soon JX? I’d think the Taiwanese diaspora would much prefer to fly BR, JX, or even CI if they had a choice.
Stupid comment. UA would fly the route if they couldn't fill the plane. Whether or not it is a "good flight" is irrelevant.
UA is adding a 2nd flight in October. Not everyone starts in SFO, many connect from other cities.
Just put the guy in his seat and tie him up and keep him there. Put tape over his mouth to shut him up. One person should not inconvenience 360 other people. That's just plain BS. Either that or beat the crap out of him and then tie him up and put him in his seat and tape his mouth shut!
David
Big commercial airliners need a small brig. Restrain and lock up the idiots and keep on flying.
Face it the USA probably has more issues with this because more people believe they are THE entitled. The rules don't apply to them and common courtesy is long gone in the past (you don't even have to roll down your car window to hear the booming bass 3 cars away). As long as our laws give people the right to treat others like garbage and not be punished, the troubles will persist.
This is about Donald Trump. This isn’t even about republicans or democrats. This is about people just being down right ignorant. BUT, since you brought it up, how has our government been helped thus far? We were “awarded” stimulus checks to “shut up” then your interest rates, groceries, gas, vacations, are at an all time HIGH. If our current President really had business smarts and wanted to help we wouldn’t be handed checks to just...
This is about Donald Trump. This isn’t even about republicans or democrats. This is about people just being down right ignorant. BUT, since you brought it up, how has our government been helped thus far? We were “awarded” stimulus checks to “shut up” then your interest rates, groceries, gas, vacations, are at an all time HIGH. If our current President really had business smarts and wanted to help we wouldn’t be handed checks to just be taken more advantage of. Have you yet to realize the truth?
I don't know why passengers are filing class action lawsuits against these idiots for wasting their time and causing major disruptions in their lives. I would be livid!
Why not divert to Hawaii and be half way there? What a waste of time. They could have duct taped the A****** as well. What is wrong with people? Why are Americans so often such jerks? Sigh...
Is passengers that continuously cars flight disruptions should end up being find the cost of what the airline occurs to have to turn that plane around. Maybe when these fools start to get hit in their pocket, then it will start to register.
What happened to that particular unruly person? Slap on the wrist? For giving the other people delayed?
Couldn't they have dropped him off in Honolulu or Anchorage?
Correct, they should have diverted to Anchorage (not Hawaii - out of the way) , and kicked the guy off.
One thing for sure...we don't have to ask too many questions about the unruly passenger. He wasn't shot, tased, hogged tied or called a thug. He was safely flown back to San Francisco. When everyone is treated in the same fashion the 'privileged' will learn that they can't get special treatment. It's an oxymoron ....obviously this 'privileged' person doesn't accept that the 'privileged' didn't take kind to him wanting access to their 'business class privileges'.
So dumb. Just let the guy sit where he wanted and get him on the other side.
Figures some moron would blame Trump. Can't we just hold the individual responsible for his actions!!!
Rich considering this crap rarely happened prior to the currently installed regime. Let's talk about circumventing everything standing in the way of their socialist manifesto.
I think it's a "cultural" thing: Too many of us Americans are arrogant and lack a sense of civic-mindedness.
I hear you there. The American culture is rife with entitled idiots
Sorry, no. This is not about Donald Trump. Sell stupid somewhere else; we’re all stocked up here.
How is this disruptive passenger related to Donald Trump is beyond me. Let's be honest there are plenty of entitled people in the world, these "Karen's" often think hey there is an empty seat in business why cant I sit there instead of my economy seat? It doesn't cost the airline anything now that we have taken off!
These people also demand extra food, drinks, and seat switch, while complaining on other passengers for their...
How is this disruptive passenger related to Donald Trump is beyond me. Let's be honest there are plenty of entitled people in the world, these "Karen's" often think hey there is an empty seat in business why cant I sit there instead of my economy seat? It doesn't cost the airline anything now that we have taken off!
These people also demand extra food, drinks, and seat switch, while complaining on other passengers for their smell and noise and "taking up too much space". We need these people put on no fly list!
I'm not an American, so this is just my observation in general. Warning: Contains stereotypes and generalisations.
I come across a lot of articles of misbehaving passengers, and yes, they seem to mostly be Americans or on American airlines. It might be due to what America holds as it's values.
I noticed everything in America revolves around 'rights'. Its my right this, I have the right to do that, you don't have the right to...
I'm not an American, so this is just my observation in general. Warning: Contains stereotypes and generalisations.
I come across a lot of articles of misbehaving passengers, and yes, they seem to mostly be Americans or on American airlines. It might be due to what America holds as it's values.
I noticed everything in America revolves around 'rights'. Its my right this, I have the right to do that, you don't have the right to do whatever, I know my rights. A very. very, individualistic and me-first society. So when placed in certain situations, that society more than most tends to produce Karens. All emphasis on rights, very little mentioned of responsibility. So if the passenger thinks it's his right to demand something and have his way...
I, as an Asian... our society is structured around 'us', the collective. Try doing something nonsense, the whole society will stigmatise you. Not to say we don't have Karens and that all Asian societies are like that, it certainly varies to different degrees from Asian society to Asian society, but none of this 'it's my right' bullshit.
It it was me it would be a finacial decision i would give the passenger an upgrade he wanted and then escort him off at end in handcuffs.
There would be no inconveniance to other paxs.
And he would get a rude shock in a foreign prison
Sadly, I continually read stories about diversions and disruptive pax on flights between the UK, Ireland and our local holiday resorts. It's not confined to the USA by any means.
Passengers like that should be handcuffed, or, maybe tased. This is nonsense. I read a comment that Americans are litigious; if I am ever inconvenienced like this, I will SUE the person who caused the problem. Oh. And I agree, the former Neanderthal that stole the 2016 election, because of the archaic nonsensical "electoral college," really DID teach people that there are few consequences to antisocial behavior... so far.
It’s a problem in the US because 30% of the populace are helmet wearing ‘tards.
Yes this is a common problem in United States' because flight attendants not properly trained to deescalate situation but only trained to give an orders... The good thing is to send US flight attendants for training for example to Finland Finnair or Scandinavian SAS or Lufthansa... I recently saw behavior of American airlines crew traveling on board of Turkish airlines as passengers for some reason from JFK to IST and you know it had terrible...
Yes this is a common problem in United States' because flight attendants not properly trained to deescalate situation but only trained to give an orders... The good thing is to send US flight attendants for training for example to Finland Finnair or Scandinavian SAS or Lufthansa... I recently saw behavior of American airlines crew traveling on board of Turkish airlines as passengers for some reason from JFK to IST and you know it had terrible impression on behavior of American airlines crew as a passenger...
These people need to be banned from flying.
Charge this idiot a hefty fine, so others learn.
Retired Flight Attendant here. (32 years)
Times have changed, and glad I'm retired
Easy answer, depression drugs galore.
The idiot has no idea whats coming next. First off that passanger has been charged as a criminal for court showing a Felony for Obstruction of Justice with Force against a Peace Officer, just the CAL charge, Federal Court is stacked with two FAA violations on safety of others and terroristic threats to the flight crew both are Federal Felonys pending . Financially the idiot is now liable for every dollar it cost the Airline....
The idiot has no idea whats coming next. First off that passanger has been charged as a criminal for court showing a Felony for Obstruction of Justice with Force against a Peace Officer, just the CAL charge, Federal Court is stacked with two FAA violations on safety of others and terroristic threats to the flight crew both are Federal Felonys pending . Financially the idiot is now liable for every dollar it cost the Airline. Dont think for one minute United will not care about their losses financially. Their is plenty of Civil Court to come from United Airlines and if anyone else on that flight wants to file independent Civil cases for financial loss due to the delay the airline will freely pass the information to those other passangers. Wont be surprised if their drunken but sits 20 years between state and fed aswell as financially ruined for hundreds of thousands in fines and civil verdicts.
Are you okay?
Maybe airlines are being too quick to turn around (wasting fuel and everyone’s time). How about the tying up routine!
Automatic immediate trial, and 10 years imprisonment if found guilty. This behavior would stop immediately…
I was finding this article informative until politics was introduced. Not the correct forum.
This is not a political issue. There's no evidence supporting that. However, as one who works in customer service, I can verify that since the C19 pandemic, people's attitudes, in general, have become much worse, far more entitled, and more demanding. I have had people of all walks of life scream at me, call me names, threaten myself and my family, wish death on me, throw things at me, etc. Before you judge, I am...
This is not a political issue. There's no evidence supporting that. However, as one who works in customer service, I can verify that since the C19 pandemic, people's attitudes, in general, have become much worse, far more entitled, and more demanding. I have had people of all walks of life scream at me, call me names, threaten myself and my family, wish death on me, throw things at me, etc. Before you judge, I am a Christian and a libertarian. I have been in customer service with the same company for 8 years now, 10 with my previous employer, and 9 with the one before that. I had one woman who did not get her way, so she threw herself to the ground, rolled around on the floor sucking her thumb as she cried and screamed. Funniest thing ever.
American hubris at its best...
Ugh!
Must be some super entitled minor functionary in CCP.
Just let him sit in business class for the rest of the flight and charge him 5x the retail value of the ticket upon landing in Taipei. Diversion wasn't necessary in this instance.
That would have been the smart intelligent thing to do, but don't expect that from an American airline. They should stop flying international routes.
PAX what's probably a self entitled member CCP.
There was probably someone who smelled bad or was so fat they took up two seats in his row. The fact that he kept returning to business room highlight the lack of space available to passengers on airlines these days. Everyone is trying to throw the guy under the bus, but sitting next to Two Ton Tonya on an airline, well I would get off before they closed the door.
You have zero facts to back you up.
I get the idea that you’d be one to cause a diversion….simpleton
Wow you are bigoted. Need some brimstone to with your unfounded judgement?
Wow, fat shaming much? Or just haven't flown in the last 20 years? Seats have reduced in size. Now someone 130 lbs squeezes in. At something like 18 inches side to side, many women with any backside at all are pinched in.
Watch your biased comments, they have nothing to do with this guy not following instructions.
Huh, one good pocket of turbulence would've taught him a lesson and opened his ears.
Americans are of a lower power distance culture (see Hofstede) generally why we are more disruptive against authority than for example Japanese or Swedes. Also why we are more litigious as per earlier comments. Good on UA for how they tackle these situations.
Flight attendants are not babysitters and they are not armed - I’m glad United got the guy off the plane - and people under the influence of anything are not predictable and do pose a threat
Stubborn is the American PC term for “absolute asshole”. Call it what it is. This is why so many disruptions take place. Start taking it serious.
Donald Trump has never ever seen the insides of ANY commercial plane!
Why aren't these people held accountable for the cost of their behavior? That would stop them.
Seems to me that the 350+ passengers should ALL file a small claims lawsuit against the idiot to cover their costs/expenses. Maybe this could be the ""thing to do""/
As an international crewmember myself...excluding europe...(too many americans also fly there) I can confirm that yes americans behave worse in many places not just airplanes. Less civilized. However, some countries are the exception. Think russia,china,etc.
This isn't really a college course on theoretics or deviant psychology.
People have less manners than before. Social media, TV et al have dumbed down, coarsened & calloused up each next generation, so now it's OK to not only bring your bedroom pillow on the plane, but -thanks to a certain Hollywood celeb during COVID - it's trendy to wear sloppy clothes & pink fuzzy bedroom slippers!
Dress how you wish to be...
This isn't really a college course on theoretics or deviant psychology.
People have less manners than before. Social media, TV et al have dumbed down, coarsened & calloused up each next generation, so now it's OK to not only bring your bedroom pillow on the plane, but -thanks to a certain Hollywood celeb during COVID - it's trendy to wear sloppy clothes & pink fuzzy bedroom slippers!
Dress how you wish to be treated. Instead, they dress how they feel they should act -
boorish, rude, demanding, coarse, entitled.
Businesses are now holding mandatory Office Etiquette classes for staff!
Another reason, and I know this for a fact, is that certain elements are testing to see how much they can get away with, & what our response will be. Planning......
We can not afford to suffer fools lightly.
These diversions are becoming commonplace. The people who are charged and convicted of causing a disturbance resulting in damages (costs) to the airline and fellow passengers (time, costs, other) should not only be banned from US based.carriers and be forced to pay damages, including cort costs.
Why is it that we hear most of the stories involving the US based airlines. I have never had this happen on the Asian or Gulf airlines. Nowadays you don't know what will set off the flight attendants.
They don't seem to care about the inconvenience to all the passengers.. They need to know how to handle a disruptive passenger. I will definitely avoid the delicate geniuses who are flight attendants on the US airlines.
A less tolerant behavior of the crew is equally to blame. I find their tone more like police
Perhaps, it's just math. The US is third most populous country in the world, behind China and India. The US is also the wealthiest (and even with the wealth of Chinese, remember they're a dictatorship), so presumably more Americans fly than people of other nationalities. Therefore, more flight incidents involve Americans because there are simply more Americans flying.
The airline needs to train staff to manage these situations without conflict. Additionally, airline employees seem to really enjoy flexing their authority over customers. Complete over-reaction, as is standard these days. BTW, maybe don't let intoxicated customers get on the plane. These employees are sensitive to any perceived slights, even those that should be dismissed as just customers grumbling with legitimate frustration.
The travelers now in this days are different than years ago, different class. People dress up for flights and behave intelligently. When smoking sign litup, everybody put their sigarettes out. There was no need to remain, this is just example. I was frequently flying back in the 80s for work, usually flying out on Monday and flying back Friday or Saturday, did that for almost 10 years, not even one time witnessed bad behavior. Also,...
The travelers now in this days are different than years ago, different class. People dress up for flights and behave intelligently. When smoking sign litup, everybody put their sigarettes out. There was no need to remain, this is just example. I was frequently flying back in the 80s for work, usually flying out on Monday and flying back Friday or Saturday, did that for almost 10 years, not even one time witnessed bad behavior. Also, people were more respectful to each other. Swap seats with no flyattendents involved, just to let kid sit by the window etc. Did many international flights, mostly to Frankfurt, that's the only time will see people dressed poorly, our military personnel flying back to their bases. I was ashamed...
My take is different. Americans prioritize right and wrong over the greater good. They believe people are naturally bad. They use rewards and punishments to regulate behavior. So when a passenger doesn't behave, the crew has no option but to carry out the threat of punishment. They can't let an ordinary person get away with defying authority because they believe the whole society will collapse if rules aren't enforced.
Why is it that we hear most of the stories involving the US based airlines. I have never had this happen on the Asian or Gulf airlines. Nowadays you don't know what will set off the flight attendants.
They don't seem to care about the inconvenience to all the passengers.. They need to know how to handle a disruptive passenger. I will definitely avoid the delicate geniuses who are flight attendants on the US airlines.
This is a lesson for everyone not to take US Airlines to international destination because you don't know when they will turn around at the slightest provocation you don't see this happening with other airlines.
Americans are absolutely obnoxious narcissistic buffoons. Just look at the Orange excrement 1/2 of our idiot country elected to the Presidency as your proof.
You seem very tolerant person not walking around with hate in their heart.
What color excrement are you?
I hear that
The disrupting party needs to bear the financial burden that his behavior has placed on the airline. Do a few of these and things will calm down.
While individual armchair postulations may be interesting to read about the challenge of the disorderly passenger this article might have been more educational if a formal systematic analysis of the problem had been presented. Are the airlines not equipped to more effectively deal with a disorderly person? Should some crew members be cross trained in security measures? Why don't airlines aggressively go after disorderly passengers in the courts for disrupting flights?
While individual armchair postulations may be interesting to read about the challenge of the disorderly passenger this article might have been more educational if a formal systematic analysis of the problem had been presented. Are the airlines not equipped to more effectively deal with a disorderly person? Should some crew members be cross trained in security measures? Why don't airlines aggressively go after disorderly passengers in the courts for disrupting flights?
Well said
@NedsKid brings up an extremely interesting question as to whether other PAX could sue the individual that caused the return to SFO. I researched it; this question has been asked before on the interwebs, and I found this thread on Quora with a response from an actual attorney. TL;DR is that it's unlikely that a court would find a tort here for various reasons. I would add that on an international flight, this situation may...
@NedsKid brings up an extremely interesting question as to whether other PAX could sue the individual that caused the return to SFO. I researched it; this question has been asked before on the interwebs, and I found this thread on Quora with a response from an actual attorney. TL;DR is that it's unlikely that a court would find a tort here for various reasons. I would add that on an international flight, this situation may be governed by the Montreal Convention.
https://www.quora.com/If-a-drunk-passenger-causes-your-flight-to-be-canceled-or-diverted-can-you-sue-them-in-small-claims-court-for-your-damages
Blame Trump for this in the comments? You have to be kidding! It's the left screaming express yourself. 1,000+ leftist riots and almost ZERO prosecutions.
You see the world backwards!
Someone with a personality disorder got in the plane, and another one left a comment blaming Donald Trump. I don’t want fly with either.
These Trump haters need to get a life. Grow up assholes.
These people need to be banned from all airlines.
yeah, but that would be racist.
Stories like this - and the other similar story on AA's JFK-GEO this week - of planes being turned around for little apparent reason except as a giant power flex are much more alarming than anything the poorly behaved passengers are doing. The passengers in both cases could have been dealt with on the ground without inconveniencing innocent passengers. Shame on the Captain for abandoning his mission for no good reason. The harmful entitlement of...
Stories like this - and the other similar story on AA's JFK-GEO this week - of planes being turned around for little apparent reason except as a giant power flex are much more alarming than anything the poorly behaved passengers are doing. The passengers in both cases could have been dealt with on the ground without inconveniencing innocent passengers. Shame on the Captain for abandoning his mission for no good reason. The harmful entitlement of US Cabin Crews must be addressed.
That is what "handcuffs" and "shackles" were made for, this type of behavior should not be tolerated.
Tasers could be useful as well
Because US FAs are there primarily for your safety, while in other countries they are primarily to provide service.
Yes.. If you want poor service and flight attendants claiming they are there only for your safety and then being turned around choose US based airlines. Other airlines they are there for both your safety and to serve you
100% untrue. I a 30 year flight attendant from another country. I can tell you we are primarily employed and trained as safety professionals. The difference between us and the Americans is we are also highly trained as service professionals also. We are also (in my country) paid accordingly.
Airlines should invoice these maniacs for the cost of delay, and every other passenger should invoice the lunatic for the value of their lost time. No more playing nice with these freaks. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in expense should be sufficient deterrence for this activity.
There is only a cloth partition separating the business class from the economy. Why not have a proper door that can be lock? Boarding & disembarking still the same with business class first in first out. Without proper door, there is no way to stop anyone going to business class from economy. It is a planning & design problem, not staffing.
There is a reason myself and many people I know no longer travel to the United States for pleasure.
Certainly not all Americans are poorly behaved, or even a majority, but I’ve had a disproportionate number of uncomfortable experiences with antisocial, belligerent and entitled people in the US.
The only country that’s even remotely comparable in my experience is the U.K.
What perfect country r u from? Yes America has gone into the ditch...things aren't as great as they were. When problems arise in other counties who is 1st to be there? Yeah, us Americans, imperfect as we are. Get in a war and what country do you turn to for help? Yes again.
I've gotten plenty of rude treatment from the French.
A new law needs to be past that the crew along with the air marshall can detain and duct tape the passenger to the seat and seal his mouth as well. If he dies, oh well. It's his fault to begin with... The disruption trickle down effect costs probably close to a million dollar with all other connecting flights also being delayed and the amount of labor hours spent to manage it. Not to mention...
A new law needs to be past that the crew along with the air marshall can detain and duct tape the passenger to the seat and seal his mouth as well. If he dies, oh well. It's his fault to begin with... The disruption trickle down effect costs probably close to a million dollar with all other connecting flights also being delayed and the amount of labor hours spent to manage it. Not to mention the personal disruption to all the other passengers lives he caused.
They need to publicly shame the passenger by posting his name for all to see on every news channel and charge his ass for the total cost of the disruption plus open up the ability for others to sue him/her for their personal distribution costs or just kick that jack ass out of the plane at 33,000 feet and I'll beat you'll see a dramatic decrease in this activity!
I wonder what the bill they receive for making a plane turnaround, find a new crew and delays & Loss of Income for when the plane was not in use... Sounds like a $150,000 invoice to me... I wonder if they send by US Snail Mail or Fed Ex?
I know it's been said, all airlines ban on a passenger causing a diversion, you'll never be able to get on a plane again !!
Absolutely. Make a SEVERE example of the next few people. Seize their property for every penny it cost the airlines, Minimum 5 years in jail for disrupting the flight. Lifetime ban on as many airlines in the world that will FINALLY create a global no fly list...... On the other hand, tell US Airlines to stop over reacting when somebody asks for a bag of peanuts or an 80 year old asking for help with their luggage.
Let's not ignore the elephant in the room: Donald J. Trump has given millions of Americans the idea that it is perfectly okay to break all of society's rules and do exactly as they please.
The breakdown in law is not just from Donald Trump. Have you not read about people grabbing things from store and walking out without paying, knowing that nobody will do anything to detain them? And this is most prevalent in the blue cities.
Oh yea you must have meant woke and ultra left politicians that refuse to be tough on crime that destroy communities, jobs and people’s lives? Or the countless number of Soros backed DAs that refuse to prosecute repeat offenders and recidivist criminals for shop lifting that destroy local jobs but believe it’s important to investigate hush money paid to a porn star?
Lol, no, I don't think they meant that since at this thls point, very Red Oklahoma City has more crime than Big Blue New York City. As to Donald Trump's porn star activities, given that he's now been INDICTED on more than thirty FELONIES and is facing a total of more than SEVENTY for things like planning an insurrection and stealing classified documents, I'd say that's the least of his worries.
From the outside it appears that justice is blind. 1 charge repeated 30 times does not make 30 charges. Why has Hunter Biden not been indicted? Why has Biden not been indicted for the same charges? Your justice is political.
Neither thug Donald or Hunter has been or will be held justifiably accountable...you asked why...PRIVILEGE. Until the law is EQUALLY applied to ALL who commit crimes...the results will continue to be the same: People like you and I with no authority ripping each other a part with words for people like them that don't know or care about people they will never see...less known know. Too old to be online defending white collar thugs!
You are proof that TDS is real. Trump has not been president for 3.5 years yet here you are talking about "orange man bad".
Troll of the day comment goes to......
Hmm....last I checked Joseph R. Biden was having some issues with not turning over classified documents, threatening Ukraine unless they stopped prosecuting his son, extortion, as well as refusing to recognize his own granddaughter.
Oh but I forgot he's a left wing Democrat, so the rules are different for them.
Well, everything you just said is false. You cult members are delusional
Biden DID turn over classified documents when asked. Mike Pence did, also. Only one person did not, but instead chose to hide them. Oh, but I forgot, he's a saint and cult leader.
Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome! Why not blame Trump for the Lindbergh baby kidnapping, the disappearance of Judge Crater and the eruption of Mt. St. Helens?
Get some help.
Hillary was in office looooonnngggg before Trump. Go to ANY FEDERAL agency and ask the employees, "if they had done what Hillary did, would they be anywhere other than jail?" The answer is no. If you want to go after Trump knock yourself out. But you might want to put all the democrats that came before him in jail first. The funny thing? Almost any republican candidate wins a general election (the only exception is...
Hillary was in office looooonnngggg before Trump. Go to ANY FEDERAL agency and ask the employees, "if they had done what Hillary did, would they be anywhere other than jail?" The answer is no. If you want to go after Trump knock yourself out. But you might want to put all the democrats that came before him in jail first. The funny thing? Almost any republican candidate wins a general election (the only exception is desantis). Scott wins, Haley wins, might want to keep that in mind before trying to bar Trump from running for public office.
Yes we saw all the peaceful protesters following laws, not starting fires or blocking traffic. Also its the right wings who keep trying to destroy works of art to fight climate change.
Racist much? Thinking that only pro trump people act out is racist and bigoted. FYI I did not vote for him but I’m tired of the negative stereotyping
Stop it.
@Super VC10
What do you think about Ron de Santis wife ? Americas favorite Karen.
This is exactly the reason. He gave people carte blanche.
“I understand your concern regarding the influence of political figures on societal behavior. It’s undeniable that leaders can have an impact on public perceptions and attitudes. However, it’s crucial to recognize that individual responsibility and personal values also play significant roles in shaping behavior. As a society, we should strive to foster a culture of respect, empathy, and accountability, irrespective of political affiliations. Let’s engage in constructive discussions and work towards promoting positive values that...
“I understand your concern regarding the influence of political figures on societal behavior. It’s undeniable that leaders can have an impact on public perceptions and attitudes. However, it’s crucial to recognize that individual responsibility and personal values also play significant roles in shaping behavior. As a society, we should strive to foster a culture of respect, empathy, and accountability, irrespective of political affiliations. Let’s engage in constructive discussions and work towards promoting positive values that unite us, contributing to a more harmonious and considerate community for everyone.”
“While it’s true that political figures can influence public behavior, it’s essential to remember that individual choices are not solely dictated by any one person. Society’s complexities are shaped by various factors, and attributing all behavior to a single individual oversimplifies the situation. We should encourage responsible and respectful behavior regardless of political affiliations, and foster dialogue that focuses on understanding each other’s perspectives. Let’s work together to promote unity and empathy, seeking common ground...
“While it’s true that political figures can influence public behavior, it’s essential to remember that individual choices are not solely dictated by any one person. Society’s complexities are shaped by various factors, and attributing all behavior to a single individual oversimplifies the situation. We should encourage responsible and respectful behavior regardless of political affiliations, and foster dialogue that focuses on understanding each other’s perspectives. Let’s work together to promote unity and empathy, seeking common ground amidst our differences.”
Let's not ignore the elephant in the room, that some people have so much head space occupied by Trump that they find a way to blame everything on him. Facts, statistics? Who needs them when orange man bad?
The left has mostly become deranged and respond to everything through a lens of 'how is this offensive.' Why don't y'all focus on cleaning up the issues liberal policies of have created? Four cities have now declared...
Let's not ignore the elephant in the room, that some people have so much head space occupied by Trump that they find a way to blame everything on him. Facts, statistics? Who needs them when orange man bad?
The left has mostly become deranged and respond to everything through a lens of 'how is this offensive.' Why don't y'all focus on cleaning up the issues liberal policies of have created? Four cities have now declared homelessness a state of emergency, guess which way these cities/states vote? I could go on for days, but orange man bad.
The fact you started with 'elephant in the room', made it seem like you had some bold fact that others were willfully ignoring but possibly too timid to state. Then you flop out that nonsense. May as well have said 'let's not ignore the elephant in the room: United's name starts with a 'u' and there's no 'u' in behave.' Utter nonsense and for those on planet earth, both sides of the political aisle, we are tired of this constant blabber.
Wonder why one never hears of business class passengers attempting to self-downgrade to economy? Are J passengers not mentally ill, full of drugs and/or alcohol? Tired of the excuses. Time to play hardball. BFL across all airlines. It’s not just the passengers on this flight who were impacted, it’s all of us. These events cost money which all of pay when we purchase tickets.
Purchasing a United Polaris Business Class ticket is a downgrade to economy.
Now Canadiens put their flag on their knapsack, NOT for "MAGA" reasons, Canada doesn't have to be made great again. No, but so countries like Italy, France etc etc can tell the difference & stop putting all North Americans in the same " obnoxious barrel ". Good people everywhere.
Hog-tie whichever idiot gets disruptive or non-compliant with zip-ties and toss them into the cargo hold until your TIMELY arrival at your destination, when they can be collected by law-enforcement !
If he was under the influence it's not the job of flight attendants to deal with for what could bee several hours escalating erratic behavior. I think it's high time that the people that behave poorly, inconvenience other passengers and waste extensive amounts of exensive jet fuel are fined the amount of money it cost to turn back or better yet put on a no-fly list is long overdue! Let them drive, swim or ride...
If he was under the influence it's not the job of flight attendants to deal with for what could bee several hours escalating erratic behavior. I think it's high time that the people that behave poorly, inconvenience other passengers and waste extensive amounts of exensive jet fuel are fined the amount of money it cost to turn back or better yet put on a no-fly list is long overdue! Let them drive, swim or ride a donkey to their destinations for a while and "maybe" they'll understand being a good. community neighbor is a better choice.
It happens more with US carriers, because US carriers have learned that the easiest way to handle every problem is to turn around, land, and remove the offending passenger. Airlines are uninterested in teaching de-escalation skills, and the US legal system makes it incredibly risky to attempt to subdue a passenger in-flight. Much easier to kick them off, and send a bill for the troubles.
I would say that strains credibility.
This kind of thing (turn around) is very expensive. As Lucky pointed out, not only it's extremely inconvenient for the passengers, the airlines had to pay for extra fuel, reshuffle (and most likely pay extra) for crews and pilots, etc.
American airlines don't have money to throw away like that.
Too much of freedom and freedom of everything
It doesn't sound like the man was out of control or belligerent, it seems like the only thing we know for sure is that he was very confused and wouldn't follow instructions of the fight crew.
It wouldn't surprise me if the man had some form of dementia, diagnosed or undiagnosed. It's extremely common for those with underlying mental health issues to become agitated in stressful situations, which flying is for many many people.
Wow. There's a leap.
No, it's not a leap at all.
Educate yourself.
Easy: If the plane has to return and you are taken off by police you should be banned from flying on any airline for life. Call it the Greyhound solution.
Put these self centered and untitled ass@@les in jail to full extent of the law with maximum fines.
The idiot has no idea whats coming next. First off that passanger has been charged as a criminal for court showing a Felony for Obstruction of Justice with Force against a Peace Officer, just the CAL charge, Federal Court is stacked with two FAA violations on safety of others and terroristic threats to the flight crew both are Federal Felonys pending . Financially the idiot is now liable for every dollar it cost the Airline....
The idiot has no idea whats coming next. First off that passanger has been charged as a criminal for court showing a Felony for Obstruction of Justice with Force against a Peace Officer, just the CAL charge, Federal Court is stacked with two FAA violations on safety of others and terroristic threats to the flight crew both are Federal Felonys pending . Financially the idiot is now liable for every dollar it cost the Airline. Dont think for one minute United will not care about their losses financially. Their is plenty of Civil Court to come from United Airlines and if anyone else on that flight wants to file independent Civil cases for financial loss due to the delay the airline will freely pass the information to those other passangers. Wont be surprised if their drunken but sits 20 years between state and fed aswell as financially ruined for hundreds of thousands in fines and civil verdicts.
The passenger should face jail time that is only thing is going to make a deference and make sure everyone knows print in every boarding pass this is getting a every day event.
"he appeared to be under the influence of something" likely is what I would observe, too. Fauci lockdown syndrome? Tiktok entitlement? Ch1nese fentynyl?
Given limited number of transpacific carriers, common behavior observed on domestic budget carriers has no choice but to appear on a legacy transpacific carrier.
Fun fun fun!
It has to do with the over medication of the US society, increases in mental illness (due to a variety of factors) and a sense of that being disruptive, crude, and rude gets social currency. Which unfortunately it does. If you're my age (nearly64) and want to verify society has been on a downward trend just go to an airport and look around.
Being an asshole is not a mental illness
I remember an Air Canada flight from Glasgow to Toronto many years ago. A female passenger became drunk and abusive. She had been cut off from bar service, so she started into her duty free. She yelled tbe most horrible things at tbe crue. The male purser who was on his last fligjt before retirement. Never lost his cool and remained polite, even as he was having abuse screamed at him. "I'm sorry tbat you...
I remember an Air Canada flight from Glasgow to Toronto many years ago. A female passenger became drunk and abusive. She had been cut off from bar service, so she started into her duty free. She yelled tbe most horrible things at tbe crue. The male purser who was on his last fligjt before retirement. Never lost his cool and remained polite, even as he was having abuse screamed at him. "I'm sorry tbat you feel that way madame."
When we landed in TO, we were held at the gate as two burly cops husseled tbe offended down tbe back stairs.
I think that people who present this type of behavior should be restrained and then arrested at the destination country. Find out what it is like to deal with the Japanese attempt of justice. Trust me, we have it easy in the US.
Unfortunately, many US people feel entitled. Much has to do with family and poor parenting, giving in to their child's demands, making them feel they have a RIGHT to everything. No manners, no respect, no responsibility, no work ethic. This lack is then passed to the next generation.
Maybe he wanted to cash in his 30k Scott Kirby miles earned at the Newark airport a few weeks ago.
How do you know he was from the US?
Imagine having thousands of people like this in your country, couldn't relate
Why couldn't the crew of this United flight handle the self-upgrader like the crew on this Qatar flight from last year? Passenger gets punished, no delays for anyone else.
https://onemileatatime.com/insights/obnoxious-self-upgrader/
Unfortunately the answer to why it's always US airlines is two part. 1) FA's are still Power Hungry after the Pandemic and their employers are all in tense negotiations over pay/benefits so they don't want to crack down and tell them to suck it up and make the flight happen. 2) Many Americans (of which I am one) are shitty and self-absorbed and have no manners and will habitually line step like a toddler until...
Unfortunately the answer to why it's always US airlines is two part. 1) FA's are still Power Hungry after the Pandemic and their employers are all in tense negotiations over pay/benefits so they don't want to crack down and tell them to suck it up and make the flight happen. 2) Many Americans (of which I am one) are shitty and self-absorbed and have no manners and will habitually line step like a toddler until they are put in their place.
I can't believe the airlines haven't pushed back on crews and told them to chill out. Now of the person is actually aggressive/threatening/anything serious. They are a little drunk/rude/whatever. Deal with it on the ground. Cancel their return flight, take away their loyalty membership, band them from your airline, etc.
I bet this 1 diversion cost easily $2 Mil.
What's the basis of your $2 mil? Show me the numbers.
Was it Joel Ghansham ? I thought he was travelling to Guyana
No, Joel was on American. This story is about United.
Americans feel entitled to everything. They could only afford economy but feel entitled to bus/first class seat. They feel entitled to get red faced drunk at the airport and abuse fellow passengers on flight, they feel entitled to spit on airline crew and look down on them while flying in the back of Spirit airlines. It's just this extremely big sense of entitlement that results in all these types of incidents - people just want...
Americans feel entitled to everything. They could only afford economy but feel entitled to bus/first class seat. They feel entitled to get red faced drunk at the airport and abuse fellow passengers on flight, they feel entitled to spit on airline crew and look down on them while flying in the back of Spirit airlines. It's just this extremely big sense of entitlement that results in all these types of incidents - people just want to whatever they feel like and not follow any rules.
Not only Americans…. Try flying Ryanair with a bunch of “lads” going on holiday.
Where does it say this individual was an American?
It doesn't. Good chance he's Taiwanese.
How about a sobriety test for everyone boarding a flight ? I know it sounds like another bothersome regulation but I have been on too many flights with extremely intoxicated passengers , whether it’s alcohol or drugs, who knows, but I’m tired of it.
Two comments. 1) There was an empty bus seat? Seems unheard of these days. 2) Airlines should add something to their contract of carriage that if a passenger self-upgrades the airline can automatically charge the customer for the difference in airfare. Airline makes more money instead of loses it, no one is inconvenienced.
That is indeed smart - crew should whip out the credit-card machine to offer him an upgrade.
Always offer people a choice (even if "pay USD10k")
If they make the opposite choice, they own it.
Just don't do the autocharging that the car-rental scamming companies do!
Price of biz ticket x5 for deterence
I am curious... given the litigious nature of the United States... passengers sue airlines all the time for things like they missed their flight because of a gate change they didn't hear an announcement about and therefore lost $50k in business (I know, I've had to go to court on behalf of an airline for this exact case, as well as one where the person claimed they had to be in traction because their seat...
I am curious... given the litigious nature of the United States... passengers sue airlines all the time for things like they missed their flight because of a gate change they didn't hear an announcement about and therefore lost $50k in business (I know, I've had to go to court on behalf of an airline for this exact case, as well as one where the person claimed they had to be in traction because their seat was in a row that didn't recline)...
Has any passenger on one of these flights who was grossly inconvenienced sued the individual who caused the return/delay? I mean, people do suffer real financial damages from this... like owning a night in a hotel room that is too late to cancel/modify by the time this all gets settled (many of us on here I know have been in that boat before with flight delays or a cancel). So one could point to actual monetary loss or additional expense caused.
Now I have myself hoping someone acts up and causes a delay on my flight because I'd like to take them for a round in at least district court...
Because it would be a waste of time and money.
As for you doing it, everybody needs a hobby.
Wouldn't you have to subpoena the airline to get the name of the person (I'd think there'd be liability issues if they just willingly gave the info)... then you'd have to hope the person has the resources to pay up.
Probably not worth the effort/cost of going through that process.
Good Luck being able to even prove that person was on the flight, the exact and only reason they diverted, etc. Lots of private info that won't be easily gotten. Lastly, a judgement only means something of the person PAYS. They can just ignore it, file bankruptcy, lots of ways to get out of a civil judgement. Waste of time and money.
More likely passengers would have to sue the airline, it was their decision to divert. The airline could try to sue the passenger for damages, but sounds like once again a non security threat that broke no laws, but just tested the patience of thin skinned American union FAs with an inflated sense of self importance, so good luck with that.
Seems like US airlines need to explain cost benefit analysis to their entitled employees.
I'm an attorney, and the answer is that it's extremely expensive and time-consuming to establish jurisdiction. In the US, it's one country so the same legal system applies. Someone acting out on Spirit Airlines between Florida and New York is easier to extradite than trying to bargain with the, say, French government to pay for the return of their citizen to Australia because they were acting rabid on a transcontinental flight. And the question of...
I'm an attorney, and the answer is that it's extremely expensive and time-consuming to establish jurisdiction. In the US, it's one country so the same legal system applies. Someone acting out on Spirit Airlines between Florida and New York is easier to extradite than trying to bargain with the, say, French government to pay for the return of their citizen to Australia because they were acting rabid on a transcontinental flight. And the question of where did the actual crime take place arises. There are also other considerations, such as how the ticket was bought, through whom and what the terms and conditions were; it can cost far more to sue than the value of the loss. Most legal systems are not sophisticated enough to deal with such complicated judicial issues and extradition treaties are usually reserved for very serious criminal offenses such as Joran van der Sloot as opposed to a drunk on a plane in international skies. If the passenger bought a rewards ticket, or bought it through Expedia for example, the way those companies are incorporated makes it deliberately more difficult to establish who is actually liable. An overwhelming majority of courts outside of small claims courts don't rule admissibility over these kinds of incidents. Unfortunately.
Interesting. Did not occur to me. Perhaps because it would be so difficult to get the offenders details in the first place in order to sue. Plus the expense and difficulty of hiring a lawyer.
Surely it would have been less of a delay for the other passengers if the plane diverted its course and dropped the idiot off in HNL, and continued on to TPE from there. The one drawback is having the unruly passenger onboard for an additional 3 hours instead of 1h40m.
Not really... SFO was the better choice as it was closer (HNL would actually be a little bit out of the way). Plus if it even bled one minute longer than potentially planned and crew timed out, United would likely have to delay the flight further and put the crew into rest or send one down from the mainland. Either way, they wouldn't have been back out within four hours or whatever the figure was this time.
It is unlikely they would have a full crew in HNL that could take over. Because SFO is a major United hub, they were able to call up a replacement crew rather quickly. If they went to HNL, the original crew would have to go to a hotel for the mandatory rest period or a new crew would have had to have been flown in (and maybe still need some rest). SFO was the better choice. And it was probably closer.
@Ben To answer your question, you might see more of these events on U.S. airlines because there are more of them that fly more miles. The three largest airlines in the world by ASM are all U.S. airlines. U.S. airlines simply have more opportunities to have disruptive passengers.
In my opinion, I don't think it's because of people flying more miles, it's because as a society, the US has lost its morals. While other countries of course have its issues, the US as a whole has become lawless and unrestrained. People do as they please without fear of consequences or accountability. I'm from the US and travel to Australia frequently and when I tell local Aussies I'm from the US, do you know...
In my opinion, I don't think it's because of people flying more miles, it's because as a society, the US has lost its morals. While other countries of course have its issues, the US as a whole has become lawless and unrestrained. People do as they please without fear of consequences or accountability. I'm from the US and travel to Australia frequently and when I tell local Aussies I'm from the US, do you know what is the first thing that they say? "Do you have a gun? Is it safe?"
What evidence do you have that the passenger was an American?
I wish there was a way airlines could charge these unruly passengers for the cost of the diversion. Maybe that would dissuade people from acting like imbeciles on aircraft.
It looks like air rage incidents are up across the board:
https://fortune.com/2023/06/12/air-rage-summer-travel-alcohol-violence/
I was surprised to learn that the UK has had more incidents than the US. It seems that I read more stories about unruly passengers on US airlines than any other.
It's just US media is the most click-baity and sensational now. Used to be the UK!
@Julia: Are you American? I figure that stories like this are very likely to get more coverage in the country where they occur.
Questions to divert aren't just made by the flight crews. They're in communication with ground ops to determine what to do. Obviously somebody in ground ops made a decision to turn around a trans-Pacific flight because the passenger had become a liability for the airline.
What would have happened if they ignored the guy initially but his behavior/medical situation escalated? The flight may have had to make a diversion at a remote outstation in the...
Questions to divert aren't just made by the flight crews. They're in communication with ground ops to determine what to do. Obviously somebody in ground ops made a decision to turn around a trans-Pacific flight because the passenger had become a liability for the airline.
What would have happened if they ignored the guy initially but his behavior/medical situation escalated? The flight may have had to make a diversion at a remote outstation in the Pacific. The legal liability on the airline plus the time and money that would have been spent to re-fuel, re-crew, and potentially accommodate passengers with food and lodging would have been massive. Better to turn around shortly after departure than risk an incident halfway through the flight.
I think the US airline issue comes down to training around service issues, including de-escalation. (Cranky Flier did a great article a long time ago about attending United flight attendant training and how little there really was on service provision as part of it.) Remember back when there was a rash of diversions due to fights in flight about reclining seats? I was on a Delta flight around this time with a real jerk who...
I think the US airline issue comes down to training around service issues, including de-escalation. (Cranky Flier did a great article a long time ago about attending United flight attendant training and how little there really was on service provision as part of it.) Remember back when there was a rash of diversions due to fights in flight about reclining seats? I was on a Delta flight around this time with a real jerk who seemed to be trying to get us into one of those situations, but the flight attendants made an unusually extensive effort to de-escalate the situation and calm everyone down (more or less), and we carried on. I'm not sure that all US flight attendants would go to the same lengths though.
Newest amenity on an aircraft - a brig! Effectively a bathroom fitted with a cockpit door lockable from the outside and a bit of sound batting, no more of these turn-around flights to nowhere and we can continue to run on schedule. ;)
I SERIOUSLY think we need these. Can be used for several things: Crew Naps, Breastfeeding, a passenger that may have passed on the flight, drunk passengers, this list goes on! No more fights and duck taping people to chairs. Just throw them in the there!
There doesn't need to be a brig. Just as you see unruly passengers taped to their seats sometimes, someone could design a device that turns the passenger's seat into a holding cell.
Let him sit in Biz and have him arrested on arrival. How hard is that?
Uh, no. If a passenger is being disruptive and is a potential threat to others, that passenger needs to be offloaded. We don't need a lot of libertarian-types suddenly self-upgrading and testing the legal waters of foreign arrest as some kind of travel hack or "thought experiment".
Libertarian types? Don't use words you don't understand.
That's rich, "Mantis". You don't qualify to engage with me on an intellectual level. Have a great weekend.
Santos?!? As in George Santos?!?! I'm a huuuugggeeee fan!
These incidents do exist elsewhere in the world but they are handled differently than causing an 8 hour flight delay after an air return. Maybe because in other countries there are consequences. Once on a Qatar flight to DFW a passenger kept coming up to Business and making himself at home, and leaving his bag in the aisle for the crew to deal with. He refused to move so they finally just left him there...
These incidents do exist elsewhere in the world but they are handled differently than causing an 8 hour flight delay after an air return. Maybe because in other countries there are consequences. Once on a Qatar flight to DFW a passenger kept coming up to Business and making himself at home, and leaving his bag in the aisle for the crew to deal with. He refused to move so they finally just left him there and ignored him until landing. CBP/DFW Police met the flight. The person was not a US citizen. They were denied entry to the US as they would have been arrested. The Qatar station manager laughed and said he should have prayed he got let into the US jail because Qatari police were not going to be so nice on his return to Doha, and if the guy wanted to occupy that same seat on the return and not move back to economy, it would have been empty anyway and the crew were going to completely ignore him the whole flight. "If he wants water he'll go back to his seat."
US airlines flight attendants are poor at conflict resolution. Flight attendants and pilots use threats that don’t always work on people from other cultures. I was on a Wizz Air flight in Europe with several drunk passengers. Flight attendant was patient and knew how to calm down drunk passengers. A United flight to TLV was also diverted recently for no reason. Diversions should only happen when there is real risk to the plane and not...
US airlines flight attendants are poor at conflict resolution. Flight attendants and pilots use threats that don’t always work on people from other cultures. I was on a Wizz Air flight in Europe with several drunk passengers. Flight attendant was patient and knew how to calm down drunk passengers. A United flight to TLV was also diverted recently for no reason. Diversions should only happen when there is real risk to the plane and not for bad behavior. A little training could save United a lot of money.
AK I agree with You. But I also think that there may be some "I'm not dealing with this at all" going on too. All of the major US airlines are in extended contract negotiations right now. Remember when the FA's I think on AA all worked together to not leave on time and delay flights? I think they are sending a message to management to pay them their last 4 years of wages, or else.
Why was the AF crew able to handle a guy trying to open a door without turning around but one drunk passenger so terrified the United FAs, they had to run to the Captain and turn the plane back?
We have weak FAs.
If FAs are going to receive big pay raises, which they deserve; and if they’re going to claim to primarily be there for security, which they do; then FAs need to be given more training and power to heavily restrain disruptive passengers in more situations. It would permit more flights to continue to their destination safely and cause huge embarrassment to the offender.
1000%. FA's claim all these things. Yet they throw their hands up when any little thing happens and call the captain to complain so they can go back to not "attending" (literally in their dang titles) and playing Candy Crush on their phones. Pardon me to interrupt your Game & Gossip Time so I can return my food tray You left in my seat for an hour.
You've proven yourself wrong twice in one sentence. Bravo.
That passenger owes every other passenger $1000, in addition to whatever amount United seeks to recoup.
Returning pax are not affected in this case as UA overnights this aircraft in TPE and the previous day crew has had legal rest to take the morning flight out on time!
How have the passengers not been affected? I know I'd really feel affected if I was on a flight to anywhere and it arrived nine hours late! I'm sorry but I fall to understand your point.
Should’ve just ejected the guy over the Pacific in a life raft Temple of Doom style, then send someone to pick him up.
Not enough consequences to discourage these bozos.