A recently published story exposes how a former Qatar Airways cabin crew member claims he was fired and deported for wearing tinted moisturizer during a night out in Doha. The details surrounding this really make me angry, and I can’t imagine how unpleasant this whole experience was.
In this post:
Qatar Airways cabin crew accused of being gay prostitute
On May 14, an Indonesian named Gilbert was celebrating his 32nd birthday in Doha, Qatar, with friends. He had worked as Qatar Airways cabin crew since 2016, and was enjoying dinner at the Mondrian Hotel Doha. After dinner, the group went out to another hotel bar, at around 11PM. When Gilbert took the below picture with friends, little did he know that his life was about to change…
According to Gilbert, while the group was waiting for their drinks to arrive, a security guard approached them, and stated that a CID officer wanted to speak to them. CID is Qatar’s Criminal Investigation Department, which is part of the police service. They were then brought to a private room behind the hotel. According to Gilbert:
- Without consent, the officers wiped the faces of him and his friend with wet wipes, to remove the tinted moisturizer, and confiscated their phones and ID cards
- When Gilbert and his friend asked to speak to the Indonesian embassy, the officer told them that if they refused to comply, they would be jailed
- Gilbert and his friend were then brought to the police station, and Gilbert claims that “the first thing they asked me was, ‘how much do you earn every night? How much if you f*** him and how much if he f*** you? I know what you’re doing.'”
- Without evidence, the officer accused Gilbert of prostitution, and the officer refused to believe that he had an Hermes bag and Hermes belt on a cabin crew’s wage; Gilbert explained that his parents were business owners in Indonesia, and he had no need to be a prostitute
- The officer then slapped him, and when Gilbert again asked to speak to the Indonesian embassy, he was told “you have no rights, this is Qatar”
- After going through Gilbert’s phone, they found a photo of him at Bangkok Pride, and tried to use that to suggest he was a gay prostitute
- The police forced Gilbert to sign a letter written in Arabic, which he couldn’t read, and also took fingerprints and mugshots
- The following day, Qatar Airways informed him that he was grounded; a couple of weeks later, Gilbert and his friend were driven to Abu Samra, the border post near Saudi Arabia, where their passports were handed over to the police, and they were told that they were being deported
- Gilbert was given no reason for why he was terminated from the airline
My take on this Qatar deportation story
I find stories like this to just be so deeply disappointing and sad. Every human is worthy of respect, and suffice it to say that this kind of treatment really doesn’t show even a basic level of human dignity.
Furthermore, as much as some countries want to be in denial about it, there are gay people everywhere, including Qatar. We’re all born a certain way, and just because some people might be closeted, doesn’t mean they aren’t gay.
Many Gulf countries are trying to diversify their economies by promoting global tourism, with an “everyone is welcome” mantra. For a vast majority of visitors, everything goes smoothly, and people are treated fine. But then for a small percentage of people, the experience is completely different.
For example, in 2020, Doha’s Hamad Airport made headlines, after women on a flight to Australia were strip searched, because authorities wanted to determine if anyone gave birth, after an abandoned newborn was found at the airport. There was enough public outrage regarding this that the government eventually apologized.
I have so much more I could say on this topic, and maybe I’ll save that for another day. Do stories like this give me pause about visiting a country like Qatar? Of course. However, I also think this is an incredibly complex topic with no right or wrong answer, and reasonable people can disagree on this. If one were to avoid Qatar, would it be over legitimate safety concerns, or on principle?
If it’s based on legitimate safety concerns, how does one compare the risk of something like this happening to the risk of getting shot in the United States, when our firearm homicide rate is 77x higher than in Germany? If it’s based on principle, where does one draw the line? Should I not travel to Italy, as the country strips back rights for same-sex parents? Should I not travel to a state that is limiting the reproductive choices of women? Should I stop using my Apple devices that are produced in China, with questionable labor practices?
I’m not meaning to get political here, or to minimize how terrible this situation is. My point is simply to acknowledge that there are very real safety and ethical concerns in Qatar, but also in a lot of other countries, and it can be hard to decide if and when to draw the line. I don’t have to look very far from home to see intolerance and close-mindedness.
Bottom line
A former Qatar Airways cabin crew member claims he was fired from the airline and deported from the country because he wore tinted moisturizer on a night out. According to the man, the country’s police stopped him at a bar, wiped his face, accused him of being a prostitute, slapped him, told him he had no rights, and made him sign a paper he couldn’t read.
Obviously this is a deeply disturbing story, based on the details that we know. I also can’t say I’m terribly surprised. Most Gulf countries are perfectly pleasant when things are going well, but when things go wrong, they can go very wrong…
Contrary to your suggestion, there most certainly IS a right & wrong answer to this story and principled people have absolutely no problem distinguishing which is which. Making excuses for haters reflects very badly on you and your website.
This kind of news elevates Singapore Air, based in a place where freedom of and from religion is the hallmark of a rational social policy and where good manners is part of good living.
Yeah, as long as you don't dare to utter a critical word of the government, right?
This is pretty standard for Qatar.
I remember a female FA who went to visit another female FA in a different building and as she missed curfew getting home she stayed the night . It did not appear that she was in a same sex relationship.
She was reported by the security guard in her apartment block, got called in was terminated had her bank account frozen and sent home.
Several years later she travelled...
This is pretty standard for Qatar.
I remember a female FA who went to visit another female FA in a different building and as she missed curfew getting home she stayed the night . It did not appear that she was in a same sex relationship.
She was reported by the security guard in her apartment block, got called in was terminated had her bank account frozen and sent home.
Several years later she travelled to New Zealand and had a stopover planned for Doha on her return, when she tried to clear immigration at Doha she was refused entry as she had been deported.
Different standards
dont go to a country where your rights are not aknowledge. and if got a job to work in such a place or visiting. we should respect their culture. know their rules and so on.
qatar is qatar. they have numbers of human right violations from workers abused etc etc.
this also apply to them when they are visiting our own country.
No, this is not, "an incredibly complex topic with no right or wrong answer." There is very clearly a wrong answer and that is the conduct of Qatari officials and the airline. The weasel words in this odious little screed speak volumes about just where you would, actually, draw the line.
There is no excuse for any travel writer, blogger or vlogger promoting Qatar--or any of the other Middle Eastern carriers owned by countries whose conduct is little different.
Cool, enjoy never stepping foot outside the ~25 countries of the world that unequivocally meet your standards of decency.
Stories like these make me proud to live in America, where shockingly even right now, we are all free to be who we are! Phew! America is crazy right now, but other places sound scary as hell!
Australia was right to ban this airline from expanding into the country. Many better airlines out there than Qatar that treat customers and staff much more respectfully.
Many Australians would disagree with that BZ. That decision was made for all the wrong reasons.
You make a similar point every time something controversial happens and it always seems very naïve.
Especially the equivocations you always do. You don't need to write a list and rank every single injustice that could ever happen and assign them a score to determine what your response should be. You're not a government balancing complex international relations, you're an individual.
Yes, having a general set of principles and following them as best you...
You make a similar point every time something controversial happens and it always seems very naïve.
Especially the equivocations you always do. You don't need to write a list and rank every single injustice that could ever happen and assign them a score to determine what your response should be. You're not a government balancing complex international relations, you're an individual.
Yes, having a general set of principles and following them as best you feel at the time will sometimes result in you "supporting" something that's more objectionable than something you've previously opposed, but so what? You don't have to justify this to anyone but yourself, and if you recognise that the reactions aren't in sync then you can work to make a better choice next time.
The impression I always get from your writing is along the lines of "it's hard to be perfect so don't bother trying". I'm sure you do try a bit, but the impression you give in these articles is always that you're trying to stay on the fence and do the vanilla "there are good points on both sides" thing.
Or, you know, his chosen profession is aviation blogger, not a human rights activist, and that's what dictates his priorities and tone. This is perfectly sensible and normal to anyone but deranged people with too much time on their hands and access to online comment sections...
@Icarus @Tim Dunn @Darryl Stewart @Bobby Buttsniffer
Look who was proven "RIGHT!" NO POINT GOING TO A "HOMO" PHOBIC COUNTRY
Regards
Paul
Was an ex cabin crew of Qatar Airways, I will say its not safe living there... no freedom at all and CID of qatar (always try to catch you and put u in situation where you will be in fault always)... at the end of the day the security (CID) in qatar is managed by Pakistanis (low IQ). They always put religion first and try to give you a put down message. Its better i came back early from a place where there is no freedom.
One more reason to never visit homophobic countries. Do your research before you spend your money there. There are plenty of places in this world where we're treated with the respect we deserve.
Then everyone's in agreement, it's a win-win situation. Stay where you're wanted.
All of the they/them people that claim the USA is such a bigoted, horrible place should go see how the much of the rest of the world lives. Let's see if Qatar would honor they/them pronouns.
Is your argument that the US is without issues, or that people aren't allowed to criticise their government/society if there's a worse one abroad?
If the second, I assume you don't hold that opinion for anything you disagree with, it's only if people criticise something you agree with? Ah, freedom!
I think Ben's point here about boycotting, which I agree with, is where does it go? If say you do boycott QR, then are you not being hypocritical by not boycotting companies and governments that are currently complicit in the genocide in Palestine? Or not boycotting Chinese companies that are complicit in other human rights abuses in Xinjiang? I get it there is what 'aboutism' here, but the fact is we should be calling out...
I think Ben's point here about boycotting, which I agree with, is where does it go? If say you do boycott QR, then are you not being hypocritical by not boycotting companies and governments that are currently complicit in the genocide in Palestine? Or not boycotting Chinese companies that are complicit in other human rights abuses in Xinjiang? I get it there is what 'aboutism' here, but the fact is we should be calling out all these abuses of across the board, and not just pick and choose one over the other. And calling out is different from boycotting-in my opinion, all that boycotting will do is harm the employees and people working for that particular organisation by either paycuts or possible loss of jobs unfortunately.
There are so many entities to boycott that the solution is to live in the middle of nowhere and grow your own produce and produce your own energy.
Ultimately boycotts usually harm the employees who are working for themselves and their families.
I believe the actress Susan Sarandon may have said this once as she attended an event sponsored by a company she disagreed with. Her response was similar, that in life you...
There are so many entities to boycott that the solution is to live in the middle of nowhere and grow your own produce and produce your own energy.
Ultimately boycotts usually harm the employees who are working for themselves and their families.
I believe the actress Susan Sarandon may have said this once as she attended an event sponsored by a company she disagreed with. Her response was similar, that in life you just cannot boycott everything.
The boycott of Florida Orange juice in the 70s as a result of the vile Anita Bryant did work though.
Questionable labor practices?
Are you kidding me? Just because they work harder than you it doesn’t mean they’re abused.
Chinese Factory worker in Jiangsu province (where foxconn is located) earned minimum 51RMB an hour. That’s almost as high as a mere 7.25 USD in the good ol USA.
They get OT, free food and in some cases free dormitory. They do it to improve the lives of their next generation. Just like...
Questionable labor practices?
Are you kidding me? Just because they work harder than you it doesn’t mean they’re abused.
Chinese Factory worker in Jiangsu province (where foxconn is located) earned minimum 51RMB an hour. That’s almost as high as a mere 7.25 USD in the good ol USA.
They get OT, free food and in some cases free dormitory. They do it to improve the lives of their next generation. Just like your grandfather did. It’s called hardwork.
Most of these foxconn worker most definitely have better savings than overpaid UAW worker in michigan who spend beyond their means.
Do you buy services from company that employ people living paycheck to paycheck? Oh i guess not because it’s ethical.
Nice try ben.
Spoken like a clueless American. Have you not read about the suicides that were rampant at Foxconn factories in China. Imagine how many atrocities we never hear about. Most people are afraid to tell their story in China. This kind of mentality is what leads to fascism.
Well, it really isn't a complex situation. Qatar, like every mideast country that isn't Israel, is profoundly unfriendly to gay people and has a police force that doesn't not operate in any way that conforms with the rule of law. Comparing gun violence in the US and legal mistreatment of women and minorities in the Mideast is whataboutism at its finest. When US police are caught beating people up they get thrown in jail after...
Well, it really isn't a complex situation. Qatar, like every mideast country that isn't Israel, is profoundly unfriendly to gay people and has a police force that doesn't not operate in any way that conforms with the rule of law. Comparing gun violence in the US and legal mistreatment of women and minorities in the Mideast is whataboutism at its finest. When US police are caught beating people up they get thrown in jail after a very public trial. Where do you draw the line? It's really easy: don't give your money to state-owned companies from a nation that would beat you up and throw you in jail the minute they decide it suits them. "Oh, my husband and I have been in (Dubai/Doha/wherever) and had a lovely time" happens because you're wealthy, white westerners. Own your privilege and vote with your wallet.
Love the little plug for Israel there, nice try, it just didn’t work.
It’s a fact that Israel is the only country in the region with lgbtq and women’s tights irrespective of what’s going on presently.
Rights not tights :)
Thank you for pointing that out!
You are right you find intolerance everywhere, but these are government sanctioned, under religious dictatorships. If you fly a middle eastern carrier you are actively contributing to this mentality and abuse period. Stop the justification. And yeah, I get you have this site and it's about travel, but if this happened at american, united or lufthansa, I think the response from you and others would be more severe, rather than it's bad but I know...
You are right you find intolerance everywhere, but these are government sanctioned, under religious dictatorships. If you fly a middle eastern carrier you are actively contributing to this mentality and abuse period. Stop the justification. And yeah, I get you have this site and it's about travel, but if this happened at american, united or lufthansa, I think the response from you and others would be more severe, rather than it's bad but I know my neighbors is also an ass, so what can you dom
Was it really just a tinted moisturizer, or a full on foundation ? That would make all the difference ;)
Whoever flies one of the arabic airlines (whether it is Qater, Emirates, Etihad etc.) or visits an arabic country knows he is supporting this politics. That's all to say on this topic.
Gilbert is currently working with JetStar based in Bali Indonesia. JetStar is owned by Qantas in Australia. Hope he succeeds in his new job.
I hope so !!
This must be your most disingenuous post title ever. Deported for being gay, and probably unfounded suspicions of prostitution, nothing to do with moisturizer.
Is this the western leftist red line with Qatar? Oh, they support Hamas terrorists that butchered women and children? That's a grey area. Who's to say what's right or wrong when we also have problems? But deport a gay man? Now you got me angry! That's abhorrent! But...you do have a...
This must be your most disingenuous post title ever. Deported for being gay, and probably unfounded suspicions of prostitution, nothing to do with moisturizer.
Is this the western leftist red line with Qatar? Oh, they support Hamas terrorists that butchered women and children? That's a grey area. Who's to say what's right or wrong when we also have problems? But deport a gay man? Now you got me angry! That's abhorrent! But...you do have a nice premium airline product, so I'll let it slide.
While I don't agree with everything in your post, it is courageous of you to bring the story up. Knowing well that it would incite a debate.
I would have never known (and I don't think I'm the only one) about incidents like those without this blog.
So in my opinion: continue posting stories such as this one and keeping an neutral stance for people to reflect on.
Thank you.
Sadly this is not unknown in the ME. I believe the region is the most hypocritical when it comes to treatment of gays. There have always been stratified layers in the ME with Arabs on top followed by whites, S Asians and SE Asians on the bottom of the food chain. Anyone who doesnt realise this when they accept a job in any Gulf state is delusional (and Qatar are far form the worst). Having...
Sadly this is not unknown in the ME. I believe the region is the most hypocritical when it comes to treatment of gays. There have always been stratified layers in the ME with Arabs on top followed by whites, S Asians and SE Asians on the bottom of the food chain. Anyone who doesnt realise this when they accept a job in any Gulf state is delusional (and Qatar are far form the worst). Having been born in a country which supplies a lot of low cost labour to the ME the stories in some of the local papers of their treatment in some of these countries are appalling.
"Deported For Wearing Tinted Moisturizer"? Misleading headline. Deported on a suspicion of prostitution. Tinted Moisturizer wth is that? Im not googling it.
Are you saying you're not intelligent enough to tell what tinted moisturiser is from just simply knowing what the words 'tinted' and moisturiser' mean? oh dear....
The 64K question is: will Ben keeping flying Qatar Airways??
(hint: we all know the answer)
Could it be, there is more to the story? Just like the BA Crew getting robbed in Brazil, come to find out they Faked it!
This story has Holes in it. Just like they keep finding Tunnels at the Hospital in Gaza, But will not let independant verifications by "Neutral" Reporters.
You really don't believe that Hamas was using the hospital as cover? Because Hamas has built up so much goodwill in your mind? Everything they say is to be believed? You are beyond hope.
What's with all the random caps in your contribution FakeNews?
Sorta reminds me of another exponent always in the news very given to random capitalisation in decrying what he considers 'Fake News' (not his own!)
All he had to do was give the CID officer a price and honor the transaction. He would have been let go immediately and back at the party until the CID officer's friends heard and wanted in. Just saying, it's worked for me numerous times!
"Do stories like this give me pause about visiting a country like Qatar? "
Shouldn't the question be, do stories like this give me pause about flying Qatar Airways?
Hear, hear! And I hope this situation gives you pause when promoting this airline.
Can those whining about qsuites redemptions specify exactly how they think award bookings materially support the Qatar government? It sure seems like folks are actually just upset at someone advocating for LGBTQ rights and finding any reason to derail the conversation from there...
The government owns the airline. The airline gets compensation for aware bookings. Are you really this stupid?
Come back after you've googled the meaning of the word "material"
What was in the Arabic language statement he signed?
Most likely what the police alleged that he admitted doing something immoral and contrary to the sharia law blah blah
I hope this story gets picked up by some mainstream news outlets. Is there going to be an investigation? If the new CEO wants to have a quick win in improving morale he should request the authorities apologise offer his job back and offer compensation. Now every gay flight attendant with Qatar Airways (or living in Qatar period) is assuming (rightly) that the very same thing could happen to them. What if Gilbert wasn't wearing...
I hope this story gets picked up by some mainstream news outlets. Is there going to be an investigation? If the new CEO wants to have a quick win in improving morale he should request the authorities apologise offer his job back and offer compensation. Now every gay flight attendant with Qatar Airways (or living in Qatar period) is assuming (rightly) that the very same thing could happen to them. What if Gilbert wasn't wearing a tinted moisturiser? Would he have been allowed to continue with his evening or would they still have grounds to search his phone? Ben it would be great if you could reach out to him to get more of his story. This should be a PR disaster for Qatar. How often are things like this happening and we hear nothing about it? Qantas should hire him after the horrific strip search / assault of women on that Sydney-bound flight a few years back. Something good needs to come of this.
You know Ben, it’s ok to have gradations in your principles. Like if one of your principles is “gay people shouldn’t be mistreated” and you see a country like Qatar ruining someone’s livelihood for being gay and another country like Italy not allowing gays to adopt, it’s perfectly reasonable to react more strongly to the former than the latter in planning future vacations in keeping with your principles. The former seems way harsher towards gays,...
You know Ben, it’s ok to have gradations in your principles. Like if one of your principles is “gay people shouldn’t be mistreated” and you see a country like Qatar ruining someone’s livelihood for being gay and another country like Italy not allowing gays to adopt, it’s perfectly reasonable to react more strongly to the former than the latter in planning future vacations in keeping with your principles. The former seems way harsher towards gays, so perhaps the former deserves to be avoided more intentionally?
Gilbert is a handsome Flipboy and he's probably a good flight attendant. Ben, you can at least stay on top of the story and keep us informed about his progress. I'd like to see Air Canada hire him and do some publicity around it. AC doesn't bitch about MEA "subsidies" and AC shows up at Pride. This guy's story is an opportunity to do some good while cameras are rolling. It's a publicist's dream for...
Gilbert is a handsome Flipboy and he's probably a good flight attendant. Ben, you can at least stay on top of the story and keep us informed about his progress. I'd like to see Air Canada hire him and do some publicity around it. AC doesn't bitch about MEA "subsidies" and AC shows up at Pride. This guy's story is an opportunity to do some good while cameras are rolling. It's a publicist's dream for someone with a little initiative. Poor Gilbert, back in Jakarta, isn't about to get hired at Garuda. He's welcome in Canada, like most Filipinos.
He is Indonesian not Filipino. Big difference!
Falling for the corporatization of pride I see?
If only we were in July, AC may have considered it.
He’s working for Jetstar as a DPS based crew now.
DenB - I’m going to assume you meant well but
1. The fact Gilbert is or isn’t “handsome” is irrelevant. Is it ok to treat unattractive people this way?
2. Labeling him as a Flipboy is beyond offensive. The term is very 1990s racist gay, and in this case, the person is Indonesian.
Be good if you left the house every now and then and got a feel of what reality feels like
My Bad for thinking he is Filipino. He's a dead ringer for a filipino guy I knew. My Bad. As for the term, I'm just going on what my Filipino gay friends say. They use the term freely with me and with each other, never telling me "don't say this in public". I meant no offence, which you probably already know. But in your case, I obviously gave offence, so sorry sorry sorry. I'll leave...
My Bad for thinking he is Filipino. He's a dead ringer for a filipino guy I knew. My Bad. As for the term, I'm just going on what my Filipino gay friends say. They use the term freely with me and with each other, never telling me "don't say this in public". I meant no offence, which you probably already know. But in your case, I obviously gave offence, so sorry sorry sorry. I'll leave the house next spring and see what I can learn. Sorry sorry sorry for being "beyond" offensive.
LoL, It’s okay, I am Indonesian
Everyone is so up in arms about this...can't we just wait to get more clarity about what happened? At this point, it's literally "this is my story" without any fact checking/validation.
Let's not have a fit.
Ben isn't a reporter, he's a blogger. there won't be a feature interview with Gilbert the FlyBoy.
I have all the documentation that states i did not violates any law in the state of Qatar, and yet the government officials weren’t able to provide me with any letter stating my deportation even after my Indonesian Embassy officials comes to questionned them, They still aren’t willing to disclosed the reason for my deportation post incident on my birthday
It’s all fun and good to project “western values” onto other parts of the world which have their own distinct systems of morality, culture and law.
But at the end of the day here we have a gay Indonesian dude who went to work for Qatar airways, then got too comfortable and started prancing around Doha while wearing makeup and adorned with Hermes accoutrements. How did he see this ending?
Agree with the comments. You're a hypocrite. You will fly their airline but do not agree with their laws. Furthermore, you are "not trying to be political," but you are and you do not respect that there are many countries that still make homosexuality illegal with varying degrees of punishment. If the story is true, I agree that he was not treated with respect, but that is very different from one's views on homosexuality.
Whilst it is disappointing and disheartening to the cabin crew, it is an Islam conservative country, must adhere to their culture without standing out and make a statement
As a straight white cis male even I’d have reservations about living in Qatar. Assuming this FA is gay (I presume the sex worker piece is fabricated by the police) I think living in Qatar is always a risk if you have an encounter with the police. It’s not a democracy, so really you only have rights if you’re a wealthy Qatar citizen, Arab, Muslim male. Everybody else is on whimsical privileges that the police...
As a straight white cis male even I’d have reservations about living in Qatar. Assuming this FA is gay (I presume the sex worker piece is fabricated by the police) I think living in Qatar is always a risk if you have an encounter with the police. It’s not a democracy, so really you only have rights if you’re a wealthy Qatar citizen, Arab, Muslim male. Everybody else is on whimsical privileges that the police and other officials can withdraw. You have little recourse if things go wrong. Even in the worst democracies there’s always some recourse later.
This is why I avoid hard core Middle Eastern countries, and their airlines. I also avoid China for similar reasons. I'm not gay, but I'm a woman, and after they strip searched those women looking for who had given birth, and I realized that they COULD legally do that there, that was it. I will never set foot in that country or any like it.
I think there's a difference between Qatar's treatment of LGBT individuals and Italy's treatment of the LGBT community. And also, many of us have pause when travelling to places like the United States. But let me put it this way: people who travel to Qatar go there exclusively to enjoy benefits enabled by the awful government there; they enjoy the airline, the fancy hotels, the great restaurants and all the extravagance that is more or...
I think there's a difference between Qatar's treatment of LGBT individuals and Italy's treatment of the LGBT community. And also, many of us have pause when travelling to places like the United States. But let me put it this way: people who travel to Qatar go there exclusively to enjoy benefits enabled by the awful government there; they enjoy the airline, the fancy hotels, the great restaurants and all the extravagance that is more or less the responsibility of that government. So they are morally complicit. Almost everyone who visits Italy or the United States or anywhere else goes there to experience the culture or the people, irrespective of the ruling government. So they are not (as) morally complicit.
That depends on where you place the Catholic Church in all this!
Italy’s treatment of the LGBT community is more than fine I don’t know where this is coming from
@Lasdiner. Define "fine". That's a very subjective line. Giorgia has proven to be quite the hypocrite of late given her recent split with her long time partner who was accused of sexual harassment, her child out of wedlock with him, yet persistence that gay adoption is somehow against family values. She's a dumb cunt, but such is life.
The #1 reason I am a libertarian , everyone should be allowed to live how they want as long as they don’t forcibly interfere with the lives of others. My party is the only American party that doesn’t think the state can grant us rights or deny us rights.
In theory that's fine. But right-wing libertarians truly believe that only the state could ever practically have the power to grant or remove rights. They don't understand that once you remove the state, with no other institutions in place, other hierarchies will emerge that are worse than the state. At least the state is democratically answerable to the people. Imagine a world where the American state is overthrown and you have an explicit dictatorship of...
In theory that's fine. But right-wing libertarians truly believe that only the state could ever practically have the power to grant or remove rights. They don't understand that once you remove the state, with no other institutions in place, other hierarchies will emerge that are worse than the state. At least the state is democratically answerable to the people. Imagine a world where the American state is overthrown and you have an explicit dictatorship of Google, Amazon, Apple and Exxon Mobil. How many rights do you think they will grant you? Let's say you manage to remove them. In the power vacuum, a private militia will take over. They won't grant you rights either. You need some systems in place to prevent tyranny. The democratic state is the best thing we have in the modern age (although we've had plenty of other systems across history). We should always push for more democratic reform, but right-wing libertarianism is just code for "let's get rid of the state so I can introduce my own hierarchies" instead of the permanent abolition of hierarchies altogether (left-wing libertarianism or anarchism).
Right wing libertarian.....Please. We follow the constitution. do some honest research. We have always been about equal rights for all.
You clearly do not understand libertarianism. Most libertarians want a "night watchman" state that protects citizens (from both foreign and domestic threats) and enforces the rule of law. And little else.
Never been a fan of QR and Middle East in general- personally I think it's boring, kitschy,plastic and overpriced. And story like that make me avoid these countries and their airlines like a plague.
This is why I have never flown on middle eastern airlines nor set foot in their countries.
The title of this story is inaccurate. The FA was fired and deported for being gay and suspected of being a prostitute.
Great. That makes it so much better...
Well this is why I don’t know why you go on and on about some of these middle Eastern airlines…
Right he’s always like “oh emirates is the best airline, I feel so safe in Dubai, I can bring my husband to hotels in Dubai because the stuff is so open minded. They’re not. And things like this happen in Dubai, Doha, and all over the Middle East
100% Ben wants to have his cake and eat it too. It’s actually ridiculous. Use your platform to call them out, not cozy up to them as you’re drinking Krug saying how absolutely amazing and accepting they are as you stay in the Ritz and Park Hyatt.
They’re not!
WTF Ben! has all the Krug and privilege gone to your head? What has happened to Gilbert is a human rights violation and you need to stand ten toes down and call it out for what it is, not play civil and cry “but America” these two things are not the same. What has happened to this site…
After reading this, I imagine most folks that will condemn the action against this FA will next do their daily search for Qatar award availability, and then where the next Hamas rally will be so they can attend. Be careful who you root for, as they just might win in the end.
Calm down Karen
Free Palestine is not the same as Hamas. Please do your research.
Right now it kinda is. The Palestinian people voted Hamas in to lead them, and they have never demanded another election to eject them.
I am not sure how this came up, and what the connection is to this sad story, but since you mention it may I say that free Palestine is Hamas whether you like it or not, and now more than ever. What the MSM does not tell you is that Hamas was democratically elected by the people of Gaza with the active encouragement of Netanyahu and crew. If elections were allowed by the corrupt PA and Israel in the West Bank, I bet Hamas would win hands down.
The story is absolutely shocking. I assume that once it makes the headlines, there will be serious outcry. Unfortunately for Gilbert, I cannot imagine Indonesia making a big deal out of this - they are hardly supporters of LGBT rights. I am sure that if Gilbert were, say, British or German, it would be bigger news.
I am also a little disappointed with your take on this, and the argument that there is no...
The story is absolutely shocking. I assume that once it makes the headlines, there will be serious outcry. Unfortunately for Gilbert, I cannot imagine Indonesia making a big deal out of this - they are hardly supporters of LGBT rights. I am sure that if Gilbert were, say, British or German, it would be bigger news.
I am also a little disappointed with your take on this, and the argument that there is no "right or wrong" answer.
There is a right answer. The right answer is that Qatar needs to understand that belonging to the family of nations means that it needs to adhere to common decency. It is up to all of us to ensure we send Qatar that massage - similar to the world treatment of apartheid South Africa, and the opposite of how the world treated Germany after 1933.
Your argument, if we really strip it down to the bone is "difficult to say. On one hand - terrible treatment of a minority group, on the other hand great champagne at the first class lounge at Doha. How can one pick a side". You should know better.
On a practical level - do you feel 100% confident that on your next visit or connection in Qatar you will not be facing such treatment? Accused of indecency because of the state of the sheets in your hotel room or the photos of you with your husband and child?
Excellent response- Agree with your "there is a right answer" and it does not have to be political- just ethical.
He's lucky they let him out of Qatar
Lmao, i love how you start with "i'm so angry" and then about 30 seconds later go into "but what about the US, since the US has its own issues maybe that allows me to continue flying QR which I absolutely don't want to stop flying."
And yet you keep flying on Emirates/Qatar/Etihad. Visiting and promoting these middle eastern countries. Remember the corporate word salad - empowerment / trust / transparency or whatever the crap Qatar’s new CEO said and you defended your point of view. This is middle east.
Qatar is the true evil, remember they also host terrorist orgs in Qatar.
"You have no rights, this is Qatar" says it all, there are tons and tons of examples where basic legal standards, let alone human rights standards just aren't applied. That's where you draw the line you're looking for. Italy may not be perfect, but there is are clear rules as to what is and isn't allowed, and authorities must abide to them. Going to Qatar, UAE and similar places is essentially playing a roulette. It...
"You have no rights, this is Qatar" says it all, there are tons and tons of examples where basic legal standards, let alone human rights standards just aren't applied. That's where you draw the line you're looking for. Italy may not be perfect, but there is are clear rules as to what is and isn't allowed, and authorities must abide to them. Going to Qatar, UAE and similar places is essentially playing a roulette. It will work most of the time, but there's no guarantee you won't find yourself in a situation where some official dislikes you, nor you can prevent getting into such situation, and then you're screwed.
There's plenty to see and do in the civilised world.
You've obviously never dealt with the Polizia Stradale. Get in to a traffic accident in Italy...
You MUST be joking about the polizia stradale. Arguably the most courteous, violence averse police corps in the World are the Italian Police and Carabinieri
I’d say try to get into an accident
In the US…
It's definitely playing roulette, but not all foreigners are treated equally badly. If he'd been European or North American, he would have been treated much better than any South or Southeast Asian. Indonesians, Filipinos, Indians, etc., are all treated appallingly in the Gulf counties. If Ben weren't a white American, I doubt he'd be such a booster for the Gulf counties...
The personal safety argument seems a little disingenuous, since it really varies depending on background. A wealthy white gay man will probably be fine. It's not at all safe for a transgender person (e.g. influencer Gigi Gorgeous being detained and denied entry at Dubai airport in 2016 for being trans)
Also, while the U.S. has a horrible gun safety record, none of the airlines are owned by the government. QR is 100% owned and used as a promotional tool by the state
I think this is one of the main reasons why you have two groups of Cabin Crew - those that are prepared to work for middle eastern carriers and those that would not, regardless of how much you can earn, or the fact that it is tax free and they provide your accommodation and transport.
I work for a western airline and the only relationship that have with me is an employer-employee relationship. They have...
I think this is one of the main reasons why you have two groups of Cabin Crew - those that are prepared to work for middle eastern carriers and those that would not, regardless of how much you can earn, or the fact that it is tax free and they provide your accommodation and transport.
I work for a western airline and the only relationship that have with me is an employer-employee relationship. They have no reach over the country I live in, the house I live in, my private life or what I do in my free time.
When you work for a middle eastern carrier, they essentially own you. THEY dictate for how long you can live in the host country. THEY will dictate what house or flat you will live in. And, if things get messy, they don't just take your job - the place you live, the country where you are making a life is all in their hands to control.
Its a choice you have to make and you have to accept the consequences when things become a mess, even when you've done nothing wrong.
> I’m not meaning to get political here, or to minimize how terrible this situation is.
Really? Looks like that's exactly what you're doing to me. And your post is absolutely drowning in what-about-isms (Russian trolls' favorite rhetorical device):
"Some say X is bad, but what about Y?!" eg "Bombing schools in Ukraine may be bad, but what about the racism in America?" (when Y has absolutely nothing to do with X....if X is bad,...
> I’m not meaning to get political here, or to minimize how terrible this situation is.
Really? Looks like that's exactly what you're doing to me. And your post is absolutely drowning in what-about-isms (Russian trolls' favorite rhetorical device):
"Some say X is bad, but what about Y?!" eg "Bombing schools in Ukraine may be bad, but what about the racism in America?" (when Y has absolutely nothing to do with X....if X is bad, then it's bad, period, and shootings in America or some other non-sequitur have nothing to do with it).
A whole lotta self-serving hypocrisy here from this Qatar-airlines-loving blog.
This is child’s play compared to what is happening elsewhere in the world.
But hey, so many of you want bigger government. Odd…
That's like saying hey don't worry that someone stole your wallet and threatened you after they btch slapped you because elsewhere in the world there are worse things. That logic never holds
I have little respect for anyone who flies this airline right now. Their CEO quit probably because he portably funds Hamas and look how they treat people. @Lucky..how can you give them an positive press...Why do you even fly through there?
And yet you keep promoting them, KSA and all these other backward nations…
"when our firearm homicide rate is 77x higher than in Germany?"
You are a rich gay dude without a significant criminal record, if any. The chances of you being killed is miniscule given that POC are the ones that suffer the most by firearms homicide similar to how those from non first world nations are significantly more likely to be detained for LGBT "crimes".
Worse thing would happen in Gaza
All of you are hypocrites. Complain about Qatar and then jump on and book a trip as soon as you see QSuites open up
The same Qatar that funds Hamas? No way!
Awful. And they took him to the border with KSA and dumped him ? Employees have absolutely no rights there. If they don’t like your face, they abuse and fire you. Would love to see them try that in Europe.
I’ve heard about Al Baker’s parties. That’s probably why he retired. Exhausted. Bunch of hypocrites.
Meanwhile whilst transiting in Doha I’ve seen many male employees wearing make up.
First, it sounds like the police's reaction had more to do with his Hermes belt and bag than his tinted moisturizer. Not that that really changes anything in terms of how despicable their actions are.
I spent two years working at Qatar Airways in the head office in Doha and worked with the CEO at time Akbar on a few different topics. I will say that they were not particularly homophobic there. Akbar himself was...
First, it sounds like the police's reaction had more to do with his Hermes belt and bag than his tinted moisturizer. Not that that really changes anything in terms of how despicable their actions are.
I spent two years working at Qatar Airways in the head office in Doha and worked with the CEO at time Akbar on a few different topics. I will say that they were not particularly homophobic there. Akbar himself was well aware of the fact that many employees were gay, especially the cabin crew, and it wasn't an issue for him. I was once in the room with him when me made a comment that "We probably should just hire gay male cabin crew moving forward." The context is that we were discussing some instances of sexual assault and harassment that had happened with straight male crew during layovers.
So why were they sacked without notice or appeal? Discrimination
Apart from Iran, Qatar is the world’s biggest supporter of Islamic extremism (Muslim brotherhood, Hamas, etc) they just get away with for complex geopolitical reasons.
They also have one of the worst human rights records, and let’s not even start with LGBTQIA+ rights.
It’s funny coz you see people talking about never flying Saudia or Aeroflot, but the champagne on Qatar is just too good!
Gilbert is not getting his job back.
Ben, stop promoting Qatar Airways. Please. We know it's owned by the Government of Qatar, and we know that Gilbert's story is only the latest in the appalling tales of mistreatment - remember the forced vaginal exam scandal?
Qatar is also giving safe harbour to Hamas terrorists, who could only be living there with approval from the highest levels of the ruling family.
One of the best takes I’ve read, the world is too complicated for everything to black and white, denouncing Qatar while praising the West.
Good job, Ben.
“You have no rights. This is Qatar”
Well, there you go. If what Gilbert said to have transpired is true — and I have no reason to doubt that — then the only correct course of action would be to not only reinstate his employment, but also firing the officer. What law-given search power did the CID even use to interrogate them?
Stan Singapore Airlines I guess
Law? In Qatar? Don't be silly.
If all you know of Qatar is their concededly splendid airline, it comes as a shock to learn that Qatar is actually a grim totalitarian apartheid theocracy that doesn't respect even the most basic human rights and where nearly 90% of the population would be considered second class citizens . . . if only they were even allowed to be citizens in the first place.
Most tolerant Islamic country
This is just beyond disgusting.
I would actually boycott Qatar Airways for this. Absolutely no respect for basic human rights.
Shame on this country and an airline that prides itself in diversity.
Thankfully, Qatar looses money on every single flight, so one isn't subsidizing it's apartheid theocracy by flying them. Qatar Airways however has done a great deal to whitewash a very ugly place with a very beautiful airline. It is a moral dilemma, but nothing considering the billions of US tax dollars the US government spends on defending the Qatari Royal Family. Instead of buying fake carbon offsets, you can call your Senator and demand that...
Thankfully, Qatar looses money on every single flight, so one isn't subsidizing it's apartheid theocracy by flying them. Qatar Airways however has done a great deal to whitewash a very ugly place with a very beautiful airline. It is a moral dilemma, but nothing considering the billions of US tax dollars the US government spends on defending the Qatari Royal Family. Instead of buying fake carbon offsets, you can call your Senator and demand that the US close Al Udeid USAF Base every time you fly Qatar, and you will be increasing the net welfare of the people of Qatar and the world by flying them.
Making a smaller loss due to people paying to fly the airline means more money is available to be spent elsewhere! It makes zero sense to say that just because they are loss making you are not subsidising the regime!
So the woke ones in the US won't eat Chicken because they are so worried about what the company supports, but they'll happily continue to say the middle east is just great, and even go spend money there.
Do you have statistics to back your statement up?
Qatar Airways is an arm of Qatar - a dark regime that funds terrorism and is proudly waving a flag of discrimination, hatred, and death. If you wondered why the Champagne they serve is a little bitter, maybe it's the blood of their victims.