Qantas will be expanding its international capacity through an interesting lease arrangement.
In this post:
Finnair Airbus A330s will fly for Qantas
Qantas has announced that it has entered into a long-term lease agreement for two Finnair Airbus A330s, as the airline could be flying these jets for over five years, through the end of 2028. This will initially be a wet lease agreement, but will then become a dry lease agreement.
Between late October 2023 and late March 2024, these two Finnair planes will fly from Sydney (SYD) to both Bangkok (BKK) and Singapore (SIN), in order to free up Qantas aircraft and crews for other routes.
For the first 2.5 years of this agreement, the flights will be operated as a wet lease, meaning they’ll be operated by Finnair pilots and cabin crew. However, customers will receive Qantas’ inflight food and beverage service, amenities, inflight entertainment, and baggage allowance.
Finnair has crews based in both Bangkok and Singapore, so my guess is that those crews will be operating these routes. Meanwhile Finnair pilots are all based in Helsinki, so I suspect they’ll just have very long rotations where they fly from Helsinki to Bangkok or Singapore, and then on to Sydney, and then back.
As of late 2025, this will become a dry lease agreement, meaning that the Finnair A330s will be operated by Qantas pilots and cabin crews, for a period of up to three years.
Finnair A330s offer a great passenger experience
If you ask me, these Finnair Airbus A330s are a great development for Qantas passengers. The Airbus A330s being leased feature Finnair’s new cabins. This includes Finnair’s innovative new no-recline business class, which I’ve reviewed.
Furthermore, unlike Qantas’ entire long haul fleet, Finnair’s A330s feature Wi-Fi, so that’s something that many passengers will appreciate.
Finnair’s A330-300s have a capacity for 279 passengers, including 28 business class seats, 21 premium economy seats, and 230 economy seats.
This is a smart arrangement, but…
This new agreement seems mutually beneficial. Qantas wants to expand capacity, while Finnair is really struggling, and is happy to be able to offer some of its fleet to another airline for a modest profit. Finnair has struggled more than most airlines, given that the carrier’s business model was so heavily based around connecting Northern Europe with Asia, which is challenging with the closure of Russian airspace.
At the same time, I can’t really make sense of Qantas’ general growth strategy. The airline seems to constantly have a capacity shortage, but rather than just acquiring more planes, the airline enters into agreements like this. I know Qantas has some new jets on order, but shouldn’t Qantas just pull a Delta, and consider picking up some used jets and configuring them with the standard Qantas interiors?
While Finnair’s hard product is great, the airline can’t really manage the passenger experience here, since Finnair crews will be working the flights. I just find Qantas to be such an oddly conservative airline that spends so much time talking about expanding, but not a whole lot of time actually expanding.
Bottom line
Qantas will be leasing two Airbus A330s for a period of over five years, in order to add capacity in international markets. These planes will be flying later this year from Bangkok and Singapore to Sydney. Until late 2025, the planes will be flown by Finnair crews, while as of late 2025, the planes will be flown by Qantas crews.
For passengers, these Finnair planes should offer a nice experience, as they feature Finnair’s new cabins, plus Wi-Fi.
What do you make of Qantas leasing two Finnair A330s?
Please explain..I purchased 2 tickets to singapore in late November.. and want to fly in a qantas aircraft ..just checked my booking and I will be flying with finnair
That's not how you spell qantas..wtf
Finnair crew is probably going to be a cheaper Asian-based crew not and Finns
This has also been the QF strategy domestically as well. It's very hard to get on an actual QF flight apart from ex Sydney & Melbourne. They're either QantasLink, Alliance or any other smaller airlines - makes for a very unreliable flight experience at a premium price. Add in Jetstar and one really wonders why QF no longer wants to have staff or planes. Sadly the average punter wouldn't even be aware of all this...
This has also been the QF strategy domestically as well. It's very hard to get on an actual QF flight apart from ex Sydney & Melbourne. They're either QantasLink, Alliance or any other smaller airlines - makes for a very unreliable flight experience at a premium price. Add in Jetstar and one really wonders why QF no longer wants to have staff or planes. Sadly the average punter wouldn't even be aware of all this so not as many complaints as there should be. And Unfortunately Australian based travellers don't have a lot of choice which is why they get away with it. Can't see it changing even with new CEO as she has been at the airline for 28 years so don't imagine a whole new vision is coming our way!!
This seems like 1 OneWorld airline member helping another OneWorld airline member that is in a bind at the moment. Nothing more.
Finnair has previously had an agreement with Qatar Airways to operate HEL-DOH and ARN-DOH so QR could free up their own capacity. Qatar leased most of the seats on those flights. AY has been wet-leasing a lot, I believe they flew for either Condor or Eurowings as well.
All roads lead to Rome, but all airways lead back to Delta. Delta is the largest Atlanta based carrier by local market confidence to serve Australia and the upcoming A350 order will only solidify that. No other US carrier was as profitable as Delta over the Pacific and Latin America in 2022, or across all networks in the second half of last year. Prior to COVID, The DL-VA joint venture was very profitable at best...
All roads lead to Rome, but all airways lead back to Delta. Delta is the largest Atlanta based carrier by local market confidence to serve Australia and the upcoming A350 order will only solidify that. No other US carrier was as profitable as Delta over the Pacific and Latin America in 2022, or across all networks in the second half of last year. Prior to COVID, The DL-VA joint venture was very profitable at best and most profitable at worst. With COVID eliminating poor assets and struggling routes, one only needs to look at what remains. And what remains is the new and improved DL solo venture. What previously consisted of service to Brisbane, Melbourne, and Sydney, has now grown and expanded to Sydney.
you did read the reference that Ben made to Delta's strategy of acquiring used aircraft, didn't you? = which was clearly in reference to the ex-Latam used A350-900s of which the final 6 are expected to enter service this year.
Delta still has more than 30 new generation widebody aircraft due for delivery in the next 3 years so their used aircraft growth is coming in the minority from used widebody aircraft.
You...
you did read the reference that Ben made to Delta's strategy of acquiring used aircraft, didn't you? = which was clearly in reference to the ex-Latam used A350-900s of which the final 6 are expected to enter service this year.
Delta still has more than 30 new generation widebody aircraft due for delivery in the next 3 years so their used aircraft growth is coming in the minority from used widebody aircraft.
You also surely know that DL like other carriers including UA - is growing in the S. Pacific; DL has already added its extra 3X/week LAX-SYD flights for next year and extending them into the northern hemisphere summer, indicating there is the opportunity to make as much money using an extra plane to Australia than to other destinations.
Ben referenced DL's strategy for good reason....DL has a very valid fleet strategy that allows the rapid and economic addition of capacity - something QF doesn't seem capable of or willing to do.
You seem triggered by the fact that DL is ever mentioned.
Tiffany,
You make good points. You said class dismissed last time, but class is back in session and I’m ready to take notes.
You’re absolutely correct. VA was the largest and most profitable Virgin branded Australian carrier, but made a similar mistake to VX in not ordering the A350. Instead relying instead on gas guzzling 777s. VS is the only Virgin brand that still operates long haul flights and the common denominator of VS’...
Tiffany,
You make good points. You said class dismissed last time, but class is back in session and I’m ready to take notes.
You’re absolutely correct. VA was the largest and most profitable Virgin branded Australian carrier, but made a similar mistake to VX in not ordering the A350. Instead relying instead on gas guzzling 777s. VS is the only Virgin brand that still operates long haul flights and the common denominator of VS’ success and the others downfall is the lack of A350s. The A350 has allowed VS to penetrate domestic and intra-European markets in ways that other wide bodies cannot.
Gas certainly has a kryptonite and it’s the A350. The A350 continues to serve DL in its ATI enabled solo venture or with JV partners KE, KL, AM, and LA.
For the Finnair business class seat if you're a side sleeper who sleeps on their left side, get a window seat on the left side and vice versa if you sleep on your right side.
I agree Qantas has an odd growth strategy.
For an airline with four separate long-haul hubs, they have just 48 long-haul aircraft, some of which are used for domestic flights.
Project Sunrise is still years away, so there seems like a massive shortage of 787s right now.
I suspect Australians will not be too happy to step onto a Qantas plane crewed entirely with Asian staff.
Yes, Australians hate flying Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific with their Asian staff...
I suspect Australians will not be too happy to step onto a Qantas plane crewed entirely with Asian staff.)))
Woooahhh!!
Karen?
It's 2023, you done bai!
"For an airline with four separate long-haul hubs, they have just 48 long-haul aircraft, some of which are used for domestic flights"
You have to look at the geography of Australia. Qantas cannot use its hubs to connect people between different countries (aside from NZ), rather most of their passengers are O&D to/from Australia. As a result, Sydney is their main hub, and Brisbane, Melbourne, and Perth act as smaller secondary hubs to big cities....
"For an airline with four separate long-haul hubs, they have just 48 long-haul aircraft, some of which are used for domestic flights"
You have to look at the geography of Australia. Qantas cannot use its hubs to connect people between different countries (aside from NZ), rather most of their passengers are O&D to/from Australia. As a result, Sydney is their main hub, and Brisbane, Melbourne, and Perth act as smaller secondary hubs to big cities. Even from Sydney, Qantas doesn't have too many markets and destinations to fly to. They have S.E. Asia (HKG, KUL, SIN, Indonesia), the U.S. (LAX, SFO, DFW, JFK), and NRT, DEL, LHR and FCO. Their business is basically connecting these cities with their 4 hubs. That doesn't need too many aircraft. I think Virgin Atlantic has more Long Haul international destinations than Qantas (I don't know about routes).
Seriously, Karen? Firstly, Finnair is European, not Asian. Secondly,even if they fill some of their flights with Asian staff from those ports, who the hell cares? If it wasn't for crusty, pervy, straight white male Baby Boomers who are rusted-on QF fliers, you'd find that vastly more people actually PREFER Singapore Airlines (for instance).
Clearly you're a One Nation voter, so have never seen the inside of a university lecture theatre, but get a serious...
Seriously, Karen? Firstly, Finnair is European, not Asian. Secondly,even if they fill some of their flights with Asian staff from those ports, who the hell cares? If it wasn't for crusty, pervy, straight white male Baby Boomers who are rusted-on QF fliers, you'd find that vastly more people actually PREFER Singapore Airlines (for instance).
Clearly you're a One Nation voter, so have never seen the inside of a university lecture theatre, but get a serious grip with your racist crap. Do try to keep up.
Qantas - The Spirit of Finland
It baffles me that AJ decided to retire 2 a380s, it seems like they desperately need them. They could be using them to DFW, HKG, MEL-SIN for example. The poor crew on the BNE-LAX who I believe don't even have a proper crew rest on that ancient 330-200, that really should be a 787. I am guessing with this 5 year arrangement they are holding out for Project Sunrise aircraft to arrive and that will...
It baffles me that AJ decided to retire 2 a380s, it seems like they desperately need them. They could be using them to DFW, HKG, MEL-SIN for example. The poor crew on the BNE-LAX who I believe don't even have a proper crew rest on that ancient 330-200, that really should be a 787. I am guessing with this 5 year arrangement they are holding out for Project Sunrise aircraft to arrive and that will free up some of their existing 787s/a380(s)? It certainly appears they need to order a few more 787s at a minimum. Heck Cathay is flying 4x a day to Sydney and QF have only 1 flight. AJ is not leaving things in a brilliant position.
I've never understood the comparisons to Cathay (or Singapore)... completely different markets and a carrier in a single city, with large population, and a single hub.
Yes Cathay flies multiple times daily from Sydney. Once those passengers arrive in Hong Kong, Cathay can distribute them to heaps of various destinations through its network.
Qantas will never be able to do that in Hong Kong, with most of its passengers either being O&D or...
I've never understood the comparisons to Cathay (or Singapore)... completely different markets and a carrier in a single city, with large population, and a single hub.
Yes Cathay flies multiple times daily from Sydney. Once those passengers arrive in Hong Kong, Cathay can distribute them to heaps of various destinations through its network.
Qantas will never be able to do that in Hong Kong, with most of its passengers either being O&D or connecting through to China.
says alot about labor relations and scope clauses at QF when management can choose not to invest in its own airline and buy capacity at other airlines.
The irony is that Delta has the highest crew member rates among global airlines right now and yet they are aggressively expanding their global fleet, putting more new generation widebody aircraft into service during the next 3 years than any other US airline.
and DL is...
says alot about labor relations and scope clauses at QF when management can choose not to invest in its own airline and buy capacity at other airlines.
The irony is that Delta has the highest crew member rates among global airlines right now and yet they are aggressively expanding their global fleet, putting more new generation widebody aircraft into service during the next 3 years than any other US airline.
and DL is growing in Australia too.
Perhaps a strategy of not investing in your own airline and looking to other airlines to fly planes for you really just opens opportunities for competitors to grow
Where did you get that seat map diagram from?
@ Willmo -- From Qantas' website.