Lufthansa is expected to soon introduce its new premium cabin seats, which will be known as Allegris. This will include a new business class product (to be installed initially on newly delivered A350s and 787s), as well as a new first class product (to be installed initially on newly delivered A350s).
Lufthansa’s rollout of its new premium cabins has been the laughing stock of the industry for years. Lufthansa announced its new business class in 2017, and six years later, not a single aircraft has these new cabins.
The airline is now facing even further delays. As I wrote about a couple of months ago, Lufthansa’s new first class is now delayed, and there’s an additional update on that. Also keep in mind that while the first aircraft with the new business class was supposed to start flying in late 2023, that has now been delayed to 2024 as well.
In this post:
New Lufthansa first class production delays
In July 2023, Handelsblatt reported that Lufthansa’s new first class is facing some production delays. The seat is manufactured by Collins Aerospace, but there are reportedly some supply chain issues with getting the seat into service. At this point Lufthansa’s plan is no longer to introduce this product in early 2024, but rather to introduce it at some point in 2024.
For the past few months, Lufthansa has reportedly been trying to decide how best to proceed. The options were either to keep the newly delivered aircraft grounded, or to start flying the planes, but without a first class cabin.
German website aeroTELEGRAPH reports an interesting update on this front. As you’d expect, keeping these planes grounded would have been a very costly solution, so it’s not surprising that Lufthansa plans to fly these planes.
Reportedly Lufthansa’s intent is that once these A350s are ready to enter service, the airline will simply keep the area of the first class cabin unoccupied (and of course it will be separated from business class with a curtain). The airline will then install one row of economy seats — those won’t actually be used by passengers, but rather are reportedly required to get the plane certified for the purposes of evacuations.
Now, it’s anyone’s guess when the first of these A350-900s enters service, given that Lufthansa is also having delivery delays with its new business class.
Is Lufthansa’s new first class just a trial?
Not only is Lufthansa facing production issues with its new first class, but there are questions about whether the airline is actually committed to introducing this new product on a widespread basis. FlyerTalk member Raul_R reports attending the Allegris launch event back in the spring, and being told the following:
During the Berlin event of Allegris in early spring I was clearly told during several conversations, that at first only ONE plane will have that cabin, running it for several months to get enough feedback and ONLY after that the final decisions will be made.
Of course I can’t personally vouch for this, but that sure would be interesting. If Lufthansa only intends to introduce this product on one aircraft at first, then trial it for several months, and then introduce it on a more widespread basis based on customer feedback, it could be many years until a decent number of planes have this product.
Personally I’m skeptical about Lufthansa’s new first class plans. While the window seats look perfectly nice, the double suite in the center makes no sense whatsoever.
Sure, the concept of having a space for two people to fly together sounds great, but it doesn’t look spacious at all, and offers limited flexibility in terms of one person being able to sleep while the other person stays up. There’s not even an armrest between the two seats.
Furthermore, maximizing revenue for a cabin with just two standard seats seems challenging. You want to create a first class product that customers can reliably book, but how do you do that when there are just two regular first class seats to book? And if no one books the double suite, at what point do you sell that to a single passenger?
So while it’s almost unheard of for an airline to backtrack on a new first class product, I can’t help but wonder if there might be some changes coming to Lufthansa’s new first class.
As much as I’m happy to see Lufthansa introducing new premium products, it seems to me like the airline way over-engineered this. I mean, Lufthansa is also promoting how it has seven different kinds of business class seats in its Allegris cabin. Is that much choice really a good thing in terms of managing passenger expectations?
Bottom line
Lufthansa is having production issues with both its new first and business class. Now Lufthansa’s new business class is expected to be introduced in early 2024, while Lufthansa’s new first class is expected to be introduced later in 2024.
Lufthansa still plans to fly its A350s once they’re ready to go (rather than keeping them parked, which is too costly), and the airline will simply block off the first class cabin. A row of economy seats will be installed there for certification reasons, but the seats will remain unoccupied.
Then there’s the whole question of whether Lufthansa is even committed to its new first class product, given the questionable logic of the concept.
What do you make of Lufthansa’s new first class struggles?
Someone needs to leak photos showing 1 row of Y seats where the F seats should go.
This is just a reflection of the bad leadership team Lufthansa has in place today. Ms Foerster is responsible for the product and she is a total failure. Nobody in LH gets communication on how to proceed as she apparently is the only one negotiating with the seat manufacturer, trying to lower costs . Of course the manufacturer does not budge as they have lots of orders on the book that are less costly and...
This is just a reflection of the bad leadership team Lufthansa has in place today. Ms Foerster is responsible for the product and she is a total failure. Nobody in LH gets communication on how to proceed as she apparently is the only one negotiating with the seat manufacturer, trying to lower costs . Of course the manufacturer does not budge as they have lots of orders on the book that are less costly and more straight forward.
There are voices in LH that suggested already three years ago to bin Allegris and go for standard seats. They would probably having many installed by now.
Maybe just save all the announcements for when this actually happens. This seems to have been organized by the people who built the new BER airport...
I wonder if the lack of First will create a weight and balance issue????
You need to take it into account when doing your loadsheets, but of course any plane's operating window allows for these kind of fluctuations in weight distribution. A few tons of cargo more / less has a much bigger impact than some seats.
On the LH announcement: expected. This is a joke of an airline and none of their products are 'premium', including the last generation seats they plan to install in 2045.
My money is on "not gonna happen"
Germany is not what it was before. They live on their technology developed in the 1900’s, a country which is so advanced, yet so outdated. They can build machines like no one else, but are unable to create new technologies.
Lufthansa is the prime example of how Germany lost its position in the world.
Tim Dunn, the one constant in LH's management decisions is their inconsistency. None of this is a surprise.
The entire concept of "flight testing" a new product on a single aircraft is strange - but it would also seem that LH's design changes might be pushing Collins beyond its ability to deliver.
If LH keeps changing the design, which has been suggested, then there is time to build the tooling or templates necessary to make the seat - in addition to scheduling production.
Just among large global airlines, I believe, Collins...
The entire concept of "flight testing" a new product on a single aircraft is strange - but it would also seem that LH's design changes might be pushing Collins beyond its ability to deliver.
If LH keeps changing the design, which has been suggested, then there is time to build the tooling or templates necessary to make the seat - in addition to scheduling production.
Just among large global airlines, I believe, Collins makes seats for Delta's Delta One Suite and United's Polaris seat. Both have already retrofitted those products on dozens of aircraft and have many more dozens on order.
Delta is still waiting for seats to reconfigure its ex-Latam A350s and supposedly a couple of them will re-enter service under the new configuration by next year.
If LH is "in-flight testing" a new product, it is very doubtful they have committed to production for the new seat which makes it unlikely it will be on-time for the 777X which is supposed to finally enter service in two years.
Collins does not makes Polaris for United
According to other sites, the Polaris 787 seat for United is built by Collins
The Delta A350 Delta One Suite is a modified version of the Thompson Vantage XL
I mean, defending the business class which will be out of date already by the time it premiers is one thing. At least it is a clear improvement from the previous option and the worst seats are better than the best seats on some competing products. Unfortunately, that first class is such a mess and confusing. Who is the target market for that middle seat? Even in economy, when travelling with someone, you expect to...
I mean, defending the business class which will be out of date already by the time it premiers is one thing. At least it is a clear improvement from the previous option and the worst seats are better than the best seats on some competing products. Unfortunately, that first class is such a mess and confusing. Who is the target market for that middle seat? Even in economy, when travelling with someone, you expect to each get your own screen to watch your own things. And you still expect the option to have armrests in between you, because, as shocking as this may be, even couples don't always feel the need to cuddle against each other 24/7. Clearly they saw the excitement over first and business class suites which let 2 seats come together to become 1 and decided that they would just pretend this is a selling point rather than just forcing two people to share one seat...
Given that the sibling Swiss International has the same product coming and had First across its entire (albeit small) fleet this product is coming at scale.
The middle suite I don’t understand. The same way I can’t get my head around the seven Business Class options.
You see, the new first class product is really for their next-next generation flagship aircraft after the 777X.
Maybe the ones in charge of this are having strikes lmao
Also they should just rebrand themselves to Latehansa if they are going to be like this. The 5 stars they had back then might be for GTA stars lol
Onestarhansa strikes again!
We'll see it in 2050 then.
I didn’t even realise that was the sitch with the LH centre seats. Interesting enough concept, but I agree that it would just be too problematic in practice. Start from scratch to avoid having to deploy these centre seats alone, I say.
The new LH cabin saga has become a complete joke. And how could they seriously consider fitting two passengers in this very "intimate" sky couch in the middle of the row? That would not even work for a couple, unless maybe they go to sleep and wake up at exactly the same time, though one is still stuck with no aisle access... in first class. They seem to have a fetish for getting passengers very...
The new LH cabin saga has become a complete joke. And how could they seriously consider fitting two passengers in this very "intimate" sky couch in the middle of the row? That would not even work for a couple, unless maybe they go to sleep and wake up at exactly the same time, though one is still stuck with no aisle access... in first class. They seem to have a fetish for getting passengers very close to each other. They still have these pairs of business class seats where both passengers' feet have to fit in the same tiny space, I can only imagine the awkwardness on an overnight flight. This airline has been focusing on international expansion and acquisitions, completely ignoring the passenger experience. Even their soft product is subpar. When Condor becomes a serious competitor with a superior business class product, you know you have a problem. Might be time for the board to take some actions...
We spend our lives criticising BA but let’s give them credit for being determined to roll out the Club Suite quickly. It has left their F cabin in a mess, different seats, different configurations etc, but in in the J cabin they are working towards consistency.
In contrast the LH new business class seems to have a bewildering number of different options, to be sold at different price points. This makes little sense. Your...
We spend our lives criticising BA but let’s give them credit for being determined to roll out the Club Suite quickly. It has left their F cabin in a mess, different seats, different configurations etc, but in in the J cabin they are working towards consistency.
In contrast the LH new business class seems to have a bewildering number of different options, to be sold at different price points. This makes little sense. Your comments about the new F cabin above are also true. No two individual passengers are going to buy the middle seats. What were they thinking?
And finally… the time they are taking is truly laughable.
Simce the avgeek communityhas bashed United for slow Polaris rollouts (which their case was caused by supply chain issues with Zodiac, Pandemic, and PW777 grounding and all 3 were beyond United's reasonable control), Lufthansa, British Airways, and Qatar Airways also deserve bashing for their slow rollouts.
nobody said otherwise WRT LH but you do realize that other airlines have done large fleet retrofits faster than either LH or UA.
and there is something UA could do with the PW powered 777-200 fleet - RETIRE THEM. At 26 years of age, they are older than other widebody fleets except for the 767-300ER fleets at both DL and UA.
when it comes to the airlines that did it faster, it's because they either had smaller fleets or were luckier with the supply chain.
honestly, how do you have LUCK in working w/ a supply chain?
again, Collins delivered thousands of premium seats in the time that LH has been talking about its new FC.
Honestly, what look did other carriers have and what did LH not have?
They really need to back track and go back to a 6 or 8 seat design. The odds of a couple being able to book on a 3 seat cabin is pretty low. I've seen many couples in F on LX (pre covid).
LH stands for Lost Heads.
Good news for those of us who want to continue flying LH F on the old seats for economy prices via Lifemiles lol.
I guess that gives some of us a bit more time to fly F and procure a very expensive rubber duck. :-)
Remember when Skytraxx gave LH 5 stars because of their NEW first class - which wouldn't be coming out for more than 5 years (and still hasn't)? Yeah, that was awsome.
Kinda like giving a guy the Nobel prize before he's even done anything, just because you're so sure he will (he didn't).
You mean, “remember when Lufthansa bought a 5-star rating from Skytrax citing their new first class?” Skytrax doesn’t ever give out 4- and 5- ratings for free.
skytrack is doing the same thing with Air New Zealand now :)
Just more excuses for LH to continue to offer outdated product. They have been doing this with their outdated Business Class for years now and there is still no end in sight.
If they really aren't sure if they want the product, you have to wonder if they have never heard of the concept of building a prototype and doing product testing - all done well before announcing anything or dependent on anything in the asset delivery cycle.
IF they want to blame supply chain issues, I and others will very well push back noting that Collins has delivered plenty of premium cabin seats in the amount...
If they really aren't sure if they want the product, you have to wonder if they have never heard of the concept of building a prototype and doing product testing - all done well before announcing anything or dependent on anything in the asset delivery cycle.
IF they want to blame supply chain issues, I and others will very well push back noting that Collins has delivered plenty of premium cabin seats in the amount of time that LH has been talking about the new FC seat. I don't think they are the least bit thrilled to have their name dragged through this mess.
To think that they have airplanes ready to enter service but without proper seats in every cabin and no certainty when the problem will be fixed is quite frankly mind-boggling.
Ben wrote: "given that Lufthansa is also having delivery delays with its new business class."
That is an understatement.
luftdelay
No matter how long the delay or how far removed from the plan the final product ends up being, Spohr & Co. can count on Lucky to cheerlead unconditionally.
(Pssst! You may want to read the piece before you comment.)
Laughable.
I think LH just wants to generate some buzz like in 2017, so people buy a five-star promise for five-star prices, while actually getting delivered a 2.5-star product and service.
“That’s so fetch!”
“Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s not going to happen!”
Replace fetch with new LH F.
Kind of like Air France's La Première, LH's Alegris won't be for passengers so much as VIPs (i.e., German and EU politicians and regulators) and only likely to benefit a few customers by accident. A competitive Business Class is far more important back in the real world of paying customers.
AF's La Premiere is very much for regular passengers, albeit very wealthy ones. It's often sold out even months in advance especially from the West Coast to Europe.
That's wrong on so many levels. You do realise :
1. Head of states and government members have access to government planes and don't fly commercials
2. Random MPs fly coach or business class depending on duration. Travel expenses are public and carefully monitored.
3. If your statement was true, Air France would put their first class on long haul EU domestic routes like Paris - to La Réunion or the French...
That's wrong on so many levels. You do realise :
1. Head of states and government members have access to government planes and don't fly commercials
2. Random MPs fly coach or business class depending on duration. Travel expenses are public and carefully monitored.
3. If your statement was true, Air France would put their first class on long haul EU domestic routes like Paris - to La Réunion or the French carribean not to Tokyo or Cape Town... But instead they put their worse high capacity plane on those routes to maintain low fares.
AF doesn't fly LP/FC to CPT (or JNB anymore for that matter).
I have first hand account of a French senator bragging about his unlimited expenses that nobody checked. There are a few hundred of them alone.
Good the existing product is fine and accessible - no need for this
"Good the existing product is fine and accessible..."
You're right.
It's just not competitive, so there's a need for a new FC hard product.
LH is the definition if mediocrity. Inconsistent products within LH and across the group's brands. Everything looks increasingly outdated. LH is being lapped by AF/KL and a new focus at BA to right the ship.
At this point we are nearing parody levels with LH's product delays...
so, kinda like the berlin airport :)
It is the year 2043 and LH still has 2-2-2 business class...
LOL, exactly my thought!
I was thinking Ben's son Miles will graduate high school first.
Did Ben really call his son Miles? That's a little on the nose; isn't it?
Just waiting for the second child, so it will be Miles&More... ;)