In an effort to return to profitability by cutting costs and becoming more reliable, ultra low cost carrier Frontier Airlines has changed how it schedules flights. While this is a smart move on the carrier’s part, Frontier flight attendants aren’t at all happy about this, and I don’t blame them.
Let me first share some background, and then we’ll talk about why flight attendants are unhappy.
In this post:
Frontier Airlines is building a more modular network
In late 2023, Frontier management revealed details of a business transformation plan. US ultra low cost carriers have been struggling financially, so they need to do something to switch things up. One of Frontier’s changes is that it wants to be more like Ryanair and Wizz Air in Europe, in terms of how it schedules planes.
Historically, Frontier largely operated like the “big three” US carriers, in terms of cycling planes throughout its schedule and route network. A plane would fly a complicated multi-day pattern, spending every night in a different city.
Now Frontier is working on building a much more modular network. The idea is that Frontier will base aircraft at specific airports, and then 90%+ of the time, those planes will fly back to the same base each night. This is similar to what you’ll find at most ultra low cost carriers in Europe. What’s the advantage of this?
- Frontier has had huge issues with operational reliability, and basing aircraft out of an airport helps with that; that’s because when there are irregular operations, a plane would previously go out of sequence, and then the operation would struggle to recover, due to the domino effect of that
- By focusing more on having mini-hubs in many cities, Frontier hopes to get more market saturation, and get more people to apply for co-branded credit cards, and be loyal to the airline
- By operating most planes to and from the same airport every day, there are savings in terms of crewing costs, as crews have fewer layovers
- By flying planes to the same bases every day, it helps with maintenance costs, since maintenance can more reliably be performed overnight
Why Frontier flight attendants are unhappy with new scheduling
Denver7 has the story of how flight attendants at Frontier are upset about the carrier’s shift in scheduling, and how some flight attendants are even thinking of quitting because of this.
Many Frontier flight attendants are finding themselves going from primarily working three or four day trips with overnights, to only being offered same day turns. This has several downsides for flight attendants:
- When flight attendants are on longer trips they get per diem pay, which is apparently roughly $50 per day, so they’re getting paid something even during a layover
- Many Frontier flight attendants commute to their base (meaning they live in one city but are based in another city), which isn’t a big deal when you work a three or four day trip and your hotels are paid for; however, if you work same day turns every day, that means you’re on your own for accommodations and expenses at your base
- Even those flight attendants who live at their base will be spending a lot more time and money commuting to the airport every day, which costs gas money, leads to car depreciation, takes up time, etc.
Here’s what some Frontier flight attendants had to say about these changes:
- “So if I am on a three day trip, then I’m getting paid from the time I leave Denver to the time I come back to Denver. And that’s a per diem that we that we are allowed.”
- “Previously, in order to get the number of hours that I wanted to fly per month, that was one three or four day trip per week for me, which meant four times back and forth to the airport for me. Now in order to get those same amount of hours, I would be driving back and forth 12 times.”
- “That’s just not feasible to fly in every day for a turn, just to fly back home at the end of the night, fly back again the next day to do a turn, and fly back again the next night. That’s not feasible.”
Here’s what the airline said in a statement regarding this:
“We are committed to safety and reliability. Last year we had excessive cancellations primarily as a result of air traffic control delays. In such instances, more passengers are negatively affected by delays and cancellations when aircraft are routed on multi-day trips versus out and back flying which significantly decreases downline impacts. To better serve our customers we have reduced multi-day trips although we are still operating some for those crew members who prefer them. For the first two months of the year, we are number one in completion for the industry suggesting early results are encouraging.”
My take on this Frontier flight attendant problem
The way I view it, two things can both be true — flight attendants can be justifiably frustrated, and Frontier can be right to make this change.
Of course this absolutely sucks for flight attendants. At some bases, over half of flight attendants are commuters. Imagine you’ve worked at the airline for years, and this change completely changes the economics of the job. If you’re a commuter, it’s simply not practical to keep this job without moving. You’re not only missing out on your per diem, but you’re also on the hook for paying for your accommodation at your base.
That being said, Frontier is right to make the changes that it’s making. The airline hasn’t been making money, and the only way the airline can make money is by being really disciplined with costs. Operating planes to and from base every day makes perfect sense. It’s great in terms of operational reliability, and the airline needs to cut labor costs, or else it won’t be in business for long.
So it’s a tricky situation. I absolutely feel bad for flight attendants, but I also think the company is making the right decision.
Bottom line
Frontier Airlines is overhauling its aircraft scheduling, with most planes now flying to and from a particular base every day. This has done wonders in terms of improving operational reliability. On top of that, it can help the airline save money with staffing, for the precise reason that flight attendants are frustrated.
I feel bad for flight attendants who have been at the airline for a long time and like their jobs, because for many, this change will mean that working at Frontier no longer makes financial sense. But I’d say that it’s a hard but necessary change.
What do you make of this situation at Frontier?
At the end of the day, if the flight attendants are not happy with the change; then resign. As in all professions, we endure added cost such as tolls, wear and tear on our cars etc. It's common knowledge that flight attendant bases are random at first. They were aware of the rules and now they want to try to change it to fit their lifestyle.
Maybe Frontier would not be losing as much money as they are if they handle customer service properly and didn’t discharge for bags that were not too big
Actually, the flight attend are the ones that de-escalate the problem is most of the time they only get paid from when the door shuts to the aircraft until the door opens to the aircraft. They don’t get paid for boarding deplaning delays sit times, etc....
Maybe Frontier would not be losing as much money as they are if they handle customer service properly and didn’t discharge for bags that were not too big
Actually, the flight attend are the ones that de-escalate the problem is most of the time they only get paid from when the door shuts to the aircraft until the door opens to the aircraft. They don’t get paid for boarding deplaning delays sit times, etc. in order to work the same hours hours, that they used to With trip. It is impossible. So they cannot make a living to pay all their bills
pilot here; sucks for us too. but some people like the single-day schedules. some live near the airport and want to be home every night. but the con is that single-day pairings tend to be very long, 12 hours sometimes. so you work longer hours but work less days per month overall. the main issue I see is that different companies have different schedules, and I work for a company because I like their schedules....
pilot here; sucks for us too. but some people like the single-day schedules. some live near the airport and want to be home every night. but the con is that single-day pairings tend to be very long, 12 hours sometimes. so you work longer hours but work less days per month overall. the main issue I see is that different companies have different schedules, and I work for a company because I like their schedules. Now that the company changed their schedule, I'd have to find a new airline to work for that has a schedule that works for me. But if I switch companies I lose my seniority, etc. So it's a lose-lose situation when companies make such a drastic change, eventhough it makes sense as a business to do so.
There is an obvious solution. The pilots can act as flight attendats during the flight. Or the mechanics could be flight attendt-mechanics.
Problem solved.
A company is in business to make money and be profitable. Sometimes change is inevitable- and painful . But the company is obligated to make a profit in whatever course it must …. Employees can choose to stay and make adjustments such as moving into base, or seek employment elsewhere - it is a personal choice.
So the FA's are upset they will not get paid for not working.
Sounds about right.
Makes 100% for the airline to make this switch.
Considering how much time the average flight attendant spends working while not getting paid, no, it sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Why did you leave Boise, Idaho
The part they’re leaving out is new hire FAs are still being sold the “trips and travel” dream in the interview and not being told about the change to turns. I’ve heard they’ve been instructed not to tell new hires unless asked directly. Total bait and switch.
I found this on Frontier's career page for Flight Attendants:
BETTER WORK-LIFE BALANCE
Most of our trips have you back in base so you can sleep in your own bed!
Seems pretty clear to me.
"Most of our trips have you back in base so you can sleep in your own car!"
Fixed for you Emily :)
Clueless . A day trip can be two turns in on single day . Also, it can do three legs, and still return to the same airport. I wonder how the pilots like this.
Imagine if your employer suddenly said… “as of today, I will pay you once you have already submitted your work…. Not for the time needed to DO your work, but from the time you submit it, until the time I approve it.” And I am completely in charge of determining those timestamps.”
Why "imagine" anything? These are unionized employees, and there's a 0% chance that the unions didn't previously agree that the airline can shift to this, if they (unions) are remaining silent about it today.
So while this may leave a sour taste for many employees, if it's an option that they chose to give the airline, then they really don't have firm ground to stand on in complaint.
I don’t think you understand how a union works. A union cannot tell a company how to run their operations ,however union can constitute changes on how pay is due to those operational changes. That’s the difference.The union is just upset. You would be too if you had to work more days and make less money and have less days off. When your livelihood is changed for the worse you do have ground to be angry not sour.
A well-organized union can tell the employer whatever they want, but most unions have grown too accustomed to relying on bureaucracy and legal remedies that don’t really serve them. The other/right way is a lot more work.
Agree both points of view of true as if Frontier doesn’t make this change they might not be around in the future and there will be no jobs at all.
So these FA’s now have to get used to sleeping with their own significant others. That is a massive change.
This works for the airline, so cannot blame them for trying this.
How is system working out for FAs at Allegiant?
It seems like F9 wants to make a more “9-5” job for its flight attendants so they can be more profitable and their flight schedule more reliable. This makes a lot of sense. But they also need to pay their flight attendants a living wage so that everyone wins. The bottom line sounds like it’s about the pay not necessarily being put on a “9-5” schedule.
Exactly. Also FA’s are putting in 10 plus hour day and getting paid for about 7 hours
This also takes away one of the attractions (for many) of being a FA: getting to "travel" aka spending time/nights in other cities. Job is way less interesting when you start/end in the same city every day
I feel for the F/a. Indulge me; I was based at JFK but flew almost exclusively from MIA. Pass riding (back in the day...) was a breeze..Eastern, Delta, American... no problem. These days..Frontier has no interline agreements and these folks at F9 are not making the big bucks. I agree its a smart move on F9's part...but there is the human factor as well
Not that it makes any difference to this discussion (as their FAs are all USA based ), but technically F9 does have an interline agreement!
They have an agreement to move staff, bags and even codeshare with Volaris
So many airline analysts here. Clueless.
So then share your great wisdom on the issue. I'm sure they'll listen.
I pretty much figured this would end up being a sh%t show for the crew despite people on netters claiming that crew would love the idea of sleeping in their own bed every night. If you don't live at base you either will need to move (on your own dime), get another apartment/flop house (on your own dime) or quit. Even if one does live at base after 12 hours (between air and non air...
I pretty much figured this would end up being a sh%t show for the crew despite people on netters claiming that crew would love the idea of sleeping in their own bed every night. If you don't live at base you either will need to move (on your own dime), get another apartment/flop house (on your own dime) or quit. Even if one does live at base after 12 hours (between air and non air time) you get to schlep home for 3-4 days in a row. Not to mention it ends up becoming a boring lower skill office job. I think a chunk of their FAs will go to other airlines and they will get the bottom of the barrel for recruits.
You would think staff will be happy to be home every night instead every 4 nights , it’s gotta be very small percentage from the FAs to be angry…
Home every night and broke. They’re jumping for joy.
Did you read the article you commented on?
It also doesn’t factor in the way FAs are paid. The way they are building the work days for FAs means that most are working 6-13 hr days and only being paid for half. Add in commute time and your entire work day is upwards of 17hr. Just to turn around and do it all over again the next day. And that’s if everything is running on time. Throw in a delay and your FAs...
It also doesn’t factor in the way FAs are paid. The way they are building the work days for FAs means that most are working 6-13 hr days and only being paid for half. Add in commute time and your entire work day is upwards of 17hr. Just to turn around and do it all over again the next day. And that’s if everything is running on time. Throw in a delay and your FAs are running on 10hrs in between flights. This model has also caused a severe uptick in cancellations since being implemented in March. FAs at this company are already being paid poverty level wages with many first year FAs living in their cars. The company seems to have forgotten that it hires adults who have lives, families and other things that they need to provide for. This has been a bait and switch as many were hired with the promise of layovers, work/life balance and competitive pay. None of those things are applicable any longer
The thing that is being left out of the complaints of the flight attendants is that they are all union members. So the terms they are working under are terms they agreed to. If the company has changed terms outside the contract, then their union has the right to grieve the change. I don't hear that this has happened, which tells me that the company has the right to make these changes. You should be...
The thing that is being left out of the complaints of the flight attendants is that they are all union members. So the terms they are working under are terms they agreed to. If the company has changed terms outside the contract, then their union has the right to grieve the change. I don't hear that this has happened, which tells me that the company has the right to make these changes. You should be asking your union what they plan to do to fix these problems in your next contract.
File a grievance and go to court over it for years while the employer keeps on keeping on.
They won't longer have 3-4 day workweeks? Oh no, poor things... Cry me a river. Either move on or adapt, it's not the end of the world. Heck, I would even go as far as saying that if you have a family (and don't dislike them) this is a change for the better.
Also a charge for the better if you dislike your family and need to move because of the change!
I can understand your comments based on what you know. However, what you don't know is the typical 3-4 day work week consists of 12 hour duty days and only getting paid 8 as an example. FA'S don't get paid for boarding, deplaning, sit times between flights, delays, etc. They can end up extended to 16 hours without consent or 18 hours with consent with no additional pay. They are under the railroad act so...
I can understand your comments based on what you know. However, what you don't know is the typical 3-4 day work week consists of 12 hour duty days and only getting paid 8 as an example. FA'S don't get paid for boarding, deplaning, sit times between flights, delays, etc. They can end up extended to 16 hours without consent or 18 hours with consent with no additional pay. They are under the railroad act so do not get scheduled breaks including for meals, paid or unpaid, as one example. Most days with the new turn model are paying only 4 or 5 hours with 8 hour work days and additional 3 hours or more commute time each day with 10 hours between trips where they have to get home, eat, sleep then back to the airport and repeat for 6 days in a row for roughly 30 hours pay.
Frontier Pilots are equally as angry!
Here's a plan. How about charging fares that exceed costs? That's how an airline makes money.
Yes, but their demand would crash and they would be flying around planes less than half full. The ULCC business model is stupid and will always be so. Providing a service for below your cost and finding "gimmicks" to make up the difference.
I think the company should remember that without their flight attendants they won’t have to worry about cutting costs because their reputation as a airline that doesn’t care about customers will now include their flight attendants as well. If the frontline is unhappy and morale suffers, customer experience ALWAYS follows.
AA seems to be doing alright with customers unfriendly crews.
Why does the airline industry insist on paying by hour rather than a salary?
A company is changing it's operational model. This obviously impacts the frontline employees. It's unfortunate, but the very ability for the organization to continue operations is by changing the logistics.
I don't know if F9 will need to sweeten the pot for employees to get on board, but this is how businesses work.
Businesses have to do what's in the best interest of the company first and the employees second. Because without the business, the employees won't have a job. Said by the great Will Guidara.
Employees have to do what's in the best interest of employees first and the company second. Because without the employees, the company won't have a job.
Said by the great Mangiafiga.
well said.
Ultimately, F9 succeeds because of low costs. What helps them reduce costs hurts FAs. It shouldn't be a surprise how this will play out.
Other airlines are still hiring FAs and have commuter friendly schedules. Depending on where the unhappy FAs live, it might be easier to commute to another airline and their bases and make more money. The problem is that some higher seniority FAs - and I am sure there...
well said.
Ultimately, F9 succeeds because of low costs. What helps them reduce costs hurts FAs. It shouldn't be a surprise how this will play out.
Other airlines are still hiring FAs and have commuter friendly schedules. Depending on where the unhappy FAs live, it might be easier to commute to another airline and their bases and make more money. The problem is that some higher seniority FAs - and I am sure there are some at F9 - could potentially have to start over at another airline.