In July 2024, Delta and Riyadh Air announced plans to launch a partnership, which would include the Atlanta-based airline adding flights to Saudi Arabia. Then in October 2025, Delta formally announced plans to fly to Saudi Arabia. There’s now an additional update, as the schedule for the flight has been published, and tickets are expected to go on sale shortly.
In this post:
Delta will fly to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, as of October 2026
As of October 23, 2026, Delta plans to launch flights between Atlanta (ATL) and Riyadh (RUH). The flight will operate daily for the first week, and then 3x weekly after that, on a year-round basis. The flight is expected to operate with the following schedule:
DL318 Atlanta to Riyadh departing 10:30PM arriving 7:35PM (+1 day)
DL317 Riyadh to Atlanta departing 11:30PM arriving 7:05AM (+1 day)
The 7,283-mile journey is blocked at 13hr5min eastbound and 15hr35min westbound, making it among Delta’s longest routes. Delta will use an Airbus A350-900 for the route, featuring a total of 275 seats. This includes 40 business class seats, 40 premium economy seats, and 195 economy seats.
Here’s how Delta CEO Ed Bastian describes this:
“Launching service to Riyadh marks a key step in Delta’s global growth as we start our second century of flight. Our new flights will connect customers to this dynamic, fast-growing region while delivering the care, comfort and reliability they expect. It reflects our bold vision to create meaningful opportunities and experiences in every corner of the world in the years ahead.”
Meanwhile here’s how Saudi Arabia Minister of Tourism Ahmed Al-Khateeb describes this:
“We welcome Delta to Riyadh and look forward to the opportunities this service will create for travelers worldwide. Delta’s new nonstop flights between Atlanta and Riyadh mark a significant milestone in strengthening global connectivity between our nations and will open new doors for tourism and cultural exchange while driving business and innovation.”
For context, Riyadh Air is Saudi Arabia’s ambitious new airline startup, which has just launched flights (though they’re not initially on sale to the public). It’s logical enough that Delta would choose to fly out of Atlanta, as I imagine that Riyadh to New York (JFK) will be among Riyadh Air’s first long haul routes, so Delta would want to serve a complementary market, by routing passengers via its Atlanta mega-hub.
What’s Delta’s logic for launching flights to Riyadh?
At least in the short term, Delta’s motivation for flying to Riyadh is clear. Saudi Arabia is providing massive subsidies to any airline willing to fly to Riyadh, to the point that they basically can’t lose money flying to the country.
There aren’t many airlines that love subsidies and loopholes more than Delta, so clearly that’s the motivation here. It’s not like US carriers actually directly make that much money flying people, so if the airline can be assured it won’t lose money flying to Saudi Arabia, that’s a good deal!
It has been kind of funny to listen to Bastian’s justification for flying to Saudi Arabia, given Delta’s historical opposition to Gulf carriers and subsidies (when it’s convenient).
For that matter, I couldn’t help but be amused by Bastian recently claiming that Saudi Arabia is one of his favorite places that he has been in a very long time (around nine minutes into the below interview).
Is there a bigger long term play here, though? Sure, potentially. Riyadh Air’s goals are clear — the airline is funded by the government of Saudi Arabia, and the intent is to increase connectivity to and from Riyadh, and to boost tourism, as part of the country’s long term vision. The argument is that Riyadh has been underserved for years, given the size of the population.
We’re seeing Riyadh Air establish partnerships with other airlines ahead of launch. In addition to Delta, Riyadh Air is also partnering with Air France-KLM and Virgin Atlantic, so it’s pretty clear the “ecosystem” in which the airline is focusing.
Many years down the road, I could see Riyadh being a logical connecting points for Delta, once Riyadh Air’s network matures. That’s especially true if the two airlines have a close partnership.
The reality is that unlike American (with Etihad and Qatar) and United (with Emirates), Delta is really weak in the Middle East, and doesn’t otherwise have a “preferred” partner, meaning many points in the Middle East, Africa, and India, are without good connecting opportunities. So Delta is doing what it can here, and something is better than nothing.
But personally I don’t see this as some gold mine for the airline, and there’s no denying that from a US-centric perspective, flying through Riyadh isn’t considered as “glitzy” as flying through somewhere like Dubai. And as we know, Delta frequent flyers love their Woodford, so… 😉
Bottom line
As of October 2026, Delta plans to launch nonstop flights between Atlanta and Riyadh with an Airbus A350. Flights are expected to go on sale shortly, and the scheduled for the service has been published.
I understand the long term plan for Delta to partner with Riyadh Air, as Riyadh Air grows its network. In the short term, this seems mainly like an effort to chase subsidies, which is something that Delta is really good at. It’s the same reason that the airline flies to Brisbane (BNE).
But I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell us that I’m wrong, and that Delta is really playing 4D chess, and you know, Delta is really on the leading edge of culinary innovation, or something (or as Bastian describes it, this is a “bold vision to create meaningful opportunities and experiences”).
What do you make of Delta launching Atlanta to Riyadh flights?
What's the draw? Who's going and why? Oil? Tourism?
Two dumps of countries connected to each other by another dump of an airline - sounds about right.
Nice to see some of our oil money repatriated.
Only our resident Delta Goebbels (Tim Dunn) could rationalize actual Saudi law to defend Delta working with a regime that actively kills journalists and actively kills LGBT people. What a sick person...
There are plenty of places in the Middle East (with major hubs) with these types of laws, but the Saudis are unique in their VERY recent history to kill journalists and murder LGBT people.
Enjoy your connections, Delta fans.
Good thing...
Only our resident Delta Goebbels (Tim Dunn) could rationalize actual Saudi law to defend Delta working with a regime that actively kills journalists and actively kills LGBT people. What a sick person...
There are plenty of places in the Middle East (with major hubs) with these types of laws, but the Saudis are unique in their VERY recent history to kill journalists and murder LGBT people.
Enjoy your connections, Delta fans.
Good thing you're retiring, Glen. Makes more sense now.
what a hypocrite and Islamophobe you are.
Nearly all of the Middle East is where Saudi Arabia was not long ago.
Only you could pretend that the past of the UAE and Qatar didn't exist so you could look down with derision on Saudi Arabia.
MBS is one of the smartest minds in the Middle East, he wants peace w/ Israel, and he wants to elevate his own people.
Saudi Arabia's GDP is in the...
what a hypocrite and Islamophobe you are.
Nearly all of the Middle East is where Saudi Arabia was not long ago.
Only you could pretend that the past of the UAE and Qatar didn't exist so you could look down with derision on Saudi Arabia.
MBS is one of the smartest minds in the Middle East, he wants peace w/ Israel, and he wants to elevate his own people.
Saudi Arabia's GDP is in the top 20 of the world, twice the size of Israel and the UAE. Qatar isn't even in the top 50 countries in GDP.
You can't stand that DL waited and is partnering w/ not just one airline but two that have the potential to do far more than AA or UA will ever get with QR or EK.
Do you honestly think that EK or QR will ever have a JV and share what they have built with AA or UA? Heck no.
DL will help build RX and there is a good possibility that DL could have a JV with both RX and LY.
go ahead, minibrain, and highlight how afraid you are of what DL will do that AA and UA could not or will not be able to do.
Delta Goebbels never ceases to amuse. You keep defending MBS, Timmy
It fits you well. You really do just jump into any tyrannical regime and hope for the best. You should go visit. Take your "wife"! I'm sure you and your "wife" will do well there.
"Do you honestly think that EK or QR will ever have a JV and share what they have built with AA or UA? Heck no."
Guess I missed the...
Delta Goebbels never ceases to amuse. You keep defending MBS, Timmy
It fits you well. You really do just jump into any tyrannical regime and hope for the best. You should go visit. Take your "wife"! I'm sure you and your "wife" will do well there.
"Do you honestly think that EK or QR will ever have a JV and share what they have built with AA or UA? Heck no."
Guess I missed the DL JV application with Riyadh air lol.
Stop being such a loser and homophobe and just admit that Delta is in bed with the actual devil in the middle east because no one else wanted to be their buddy lol
again, pure hypocrisy.
Homophobe?
You are the one mocking Glen Hauenstein. Don't you want to take a swing at Ben while you are at it?
as for JVs, the only part that matters to you is that AA and UA will have no JVs with their current ME3 partners while it is very possible that DL could end up w/ TWO JVs with Middle East carriers.
Absolute. Loser. You. Are.
lol. I'm mocking Glen? glen is a smart guy. I'm Hardly mocking him. I'm saying his company is in bed with a country that legally kills active homosexuals.
I'm saying Delta should think twice before getting in bed with a regime that kills reporters and kills LGBT -- not just in historic law, but actively kills them today.
The absolute hypocrisy of you to try and gaslight on this issue is unreal when Delta...
lol. I'm mocking Glen? glen is a smart guy. I'm Hardly mocking him. I'm saying his company is in bed with a country that legally kills active homosexuals.
I'm saying Delta should think twice before getting in bed with a regime that kills reporters and kills LGBT -- not just in historic law, but actively kills them today.
The absolute hypocrisy of you to try and gaslight on this issue is unreal when Delta is embracing these killers is very very you, Timmy.
But so Tim Dunn. I'm a fan of companies not being in bed with countries and dictators that kill reporters (in their own embassies...) or kill LGBT today.
As I said, these LGBT laws aren't unique to Saudi Arabia among major hubs in the region, but the Saudis are unique about enforcing them recently and killing journalists -- and dismembering them and putting the bones in acid -- Keep Climbing Delta! Way to really get a good partner that barely flies today with no JV in the works either btw ;)
Seriously, tim. Your gaslighting is amusing but sad.
Glen is gay. So is Ben.
It is perfectly obvious what you are saying.
Go ahead and list the number of countries where homosexuality is illegal. Hint: it isn't all in the Muslim world.
and yet people including Ben have been to many of them, including Saudi Arabia.
You are nothing but an Islamophobe and homophobe.
If would take absolutely 3 nanoseconds to find a discussion on here about the moral highground...
Glen is gay. So is Ben.
It is perfectly obvious what you are saying.
Go ahead and list the number of countries where homosexuality is illegal. Hint: it isn't all in the Muslim world.
and yet people including Ben have been to many of them, including Saudi Arabia.
You are nothing but an Islamophobe and homophobe.
If would take absolutely 3 nanoseconds to find a discussion on here about the moral highground of any country including the one whose flag DL flies on its planes.
What you are deathly afraid of is that DL will have a larger and deeper position in both the Arab and Jewish Middle East - unprecedented by a US and perhaps in the world and so you throw inflammatory statements about everything you can think of to realize that it is possible it is DL that will own the US airline industry's top positions in the Arab Middle East and Israel in a few years.
You are one thing but smart and unbiased are not two of them.
You are a hateful bigot that wears your disdain for anything that you don't like like a clown suit at a formal dinner.
You showed up in this thread to sh*t all over anything you could and you prove why you contribute nothing of value.
If you had even half a brain, you would realize that these assertions of the murderous Saudi regime might actually not be limited to gays and journalists.
No wonder you think you can hide behind a fake and delusional username.
"You are nothing but an Islamophobe and homophobe."
You're such an idiot it isn't even worth replying. You defend Delta getting in bed with a country that is actively is killing LGBT and reporters. There are many countries with those types of laws that aren't killing Ben or Glen, per your point. I said that in my post initially. Saudi Arabia? not one of them...
Your gaslighting attempts don't even make sense because you're...
"You are nothing but an Islamophobe and homophobe."
You're such an idiot it isn't even worth replying. You defend Delta getting in bed with a country that is actively is killing LGBT and reporters. There are many countries with those types of laws that aren't killing Ben or Glen, per your point. I said that in my post initially. Saudi Arabia? not one of them...
Your gaslighting attempts don't even make sense because you're so up in your own delta nonsense. I'm a homophobe and islamaphobe for saying Saudi Arabia is relatively unique in the Islamic world (but not totally unique) for killing reporters and LGBT.
Learn what phobias are before you praise Delta getting in bed with a country that actively practices homophobia. God, you're stupid, Tim.
just wow. rereading your post again, Tim. Wow, you're just incredibly stupid and ignorant. You try to call others homophobes and islamophobes and don't even seem to know the meaning of the words.
There's nothing else to say. And your weird posts and nonsense about a fake and delusional username when I've never once claimed it's my name just like EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD -- INCLUDING YOU, PER YOUR OWN POSTS.
God you're...
just wow. rereading your post again, Tim. Wow, you're just incredibly stupid and ignorant. You try to call others homophobes and islamophobes and don't even seem to know the meaning of the words.
There's nothing else to say. And your weird posts and nonsense about a fake and delusional username when I've never once claimed it's my name just like EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD -- INCLUDING YOU, PER YOUR OWN POSTS.
God you're an idiot, Tim.
You are a strange little man, Tim.
You are the one that brought up Hauenstein in the context of Islam.
You are beyond help.
You simply have to be called out as the deranged nutjob you are
Go to bed, son. You got owned as usual.
I’m enjoying it already, thanks!
The flight times are fairly awful for anyone wanting a post-departure dinner.
And three times a week? At least make it daily if you're going to get subsidized.
Yeah,I always schedule my flights around an airline dinner! That’s a priority. Too funny.
Delta is also launching this as it will give travelers access to South Asia (India, Bangladesh, Srilanka, Pakistan, Nepal, the Maltdives) through Saudia and upcoming Riyad Air. Delta currently lacks coverage in most of these countries except for DEL, BOM, BLR, HYD, MAA. The flight will not be empty. Plus, Delta also get access to all Middle Eastern Cities. I have flown veriours different airlines including the ones from the Mideast. I still think US...
Delta is also launching this as it will give travelers access to South Asia (India, Bangladesh, Srilanka, Pakistan, Nepal, the Maltdives) through Saudia and upcoming Riyad Air. Delta currently lacks coverage in most of these countries except for DEL, BOM, BLR, HYD, MAA. The flight will not be empty. Plus, Delta also get access to all Middle Eastern Cities. I have flown veriours different airlines including the ones from the Mideast. I still think US carries do a very good job on their international legs
AF, KL and VS all have fairly extensive operations to the Middle East and S. Asia. Those are all under JVs.
DL will gain more and RX will quickly build out its network but remember that the other ME carriers have so much S. Asia traffic because those countries rely on S. Asians to build their economies. Part of Saudi Arabia's economic development involves creating more jobs for their own people - a larger country...
AF, KL and VS all have fairly extensive operations to the Middle East and S. Asia. Those are all under JVs.
DL will gain more and RX will quickly build out its network but remember that the other ME carriers have so much S. Asia traffic because those countries rely on S. Asians to build their economies. Part of Saudi Arabia's economic development involves creating more jobs for their own people - a larger country than other ME countries.
RX will still fly to S. Asia but it won't be like the ME3 carriers.
and DL is going to fly to India on its own metal; ATL-DEL is just the first of what will be several routes possible because of the 35K.
Contrary to what Naim is saying, right now, there are no meaningful connections that can be made through Saudia based on those timings.
Also, Riyadh Air isn't just gonna suddenly built a meaningful network complementing Delta's flight when it launches in 8 months. Saying that RX will 'quickly' build out its network is easy to say, but with delivery delays (they still don't have a single plane delivered yet) and the competition they face...
Contrary to what Naim is saying, right now, there are no meaningful connections that can be made through Saudia based on those timings.
Also, Riyadh Air isn't just gonna suddenly built a meaningful network complementing Delta's flight when it launches in 8 months. Saying that RX will 'quickly' build out its network is easy to say, but with delivery delays (they still don't have a single plane delivered yet) and the competition they face from 2 global airlines already in the region flying pretty much everywhere they want to, it'll take many many years to build a global network to the likes of today's major airlines, while also being profitable. Also, with the current ME3 already having massive headstart over them, I doubt they can ever reach the heights of Emirates. Now, could they be like Etihad in their early years, and just burn cash while launching 100s of routes just for prestige? Sure. But when the pockets dry up, they'll come crashing down.
This Delta route when it launches in 8 months will be purely funded by subsides, and I doubt it will be profitable on its own for quite a while. There are basically 0 onward connections now and I doubt there will be many more when the flight launches.
and neither DL or RX have said this route exists to provide access to S. Asia.
DL has used its European JVs to do that for years. It is starting service on its own metal to re-add India with the most efficient and capable aircraft in the world.
RX is not interested in chasing Emirates or TK. It is as delusional to think that is their goal any more than it is to think that...
and neither DL or RX have said this route exists to provide access to S. Asia.
DL has used its European JVs to do that for years. It is starting service on its own metal to re-add India with the most efficient and capable aircraft in the world.
RX is not interested in chasing Emirates or TK. It is as delusional to think that is their goal any more than it is to think that AS will duplicate DL's global network.
3 days/week may be exactly what is needed to develop and grow the US to Saudi Arabia market which has far more growth potential than any market in the Middle East.
Unlike UA and a number of routes over the Atlantic. Pacific, Latin America and domestically DL will not trash its own revenue performance to add capacity which the market cannot absorb.
There is a far bigger story in aviation about AA and UA's battle for Chicago in which UA execs are clearly willing to trash their own revenue performance to prevent AA from gaining even the slightest advantage. We just saw the latest version w/ UA immediately adding ORD to TRI and ERI.
DL can add many longhaul international flights and not need subsidies and still come out ahead of AA and UA because of the stupidity that reigns at both of their headquarters.
"For that matter, I couldn’t help but be amused by Bastian recently claiming that Saudi Arabia is one of his favorite places that he has been in a very long time (around nine minutes into the below interview)."
Ed should've brought Glen to see if he got stoned while he was there.
we can always count on you to drag things to the gutter, esp. given who operates this site.
Sick man, you are.
I'm sorry. Did I make Saudi Arabian laws on LGBT? Who's the sick one?
The one who ignores reality or the one who mentions why Glen didn't go to a place where he could be legally killed? Glen is an out and very proud Gay man. Props to him. The sick thing is Ed Bastian trying to put lipstick on a very disgusting pig that would kill his own Delta President if he was...
I'm sorry. Did I make Saudi Arabian laws on LGBT? Who's the sick one?
The one who ignores reality or the one who mentions why Glen didn't go to a place where he could be legally killed? Glen is an out and very proud Gay man. Props to him. The sick thing is Ed Bastian trying to put lipstick on a very disgusting pig that would kill his own Delta President if he was himself in the Kingdom.
You're an idiot and disgusting to ignore the actual law in Saudi Arabia.
Grow up, homophobe.
I don't recall Isom or Kirby saying Qatar or the UAE are their favorite places to placate a regime that kills many of their own airline people -- just Ed and Delta
no wonder you use that fake made up name so you can trash a country, a religion and leaders that achieved more in the first five minutes of this past Monday than you will ever achieve in your entire pathetic lifetime.
Oh wait. Are you now trying to tell us "tim Dunn" is your real name? Dude... how drunk are you tonight? You've told us numerous times (drunk) it's not your real name. Is it now?
My "made up name" lol. And Tim Dunn... are you a billionaire from west texas, loser?
again, pure hypocrisy.
You post under a name "MaxPower" and you are fixated on what someone else uses.
Go ahead and scan your driver's license with Max power on it and then, and only then, might you have a modicum of validity.
your name is not only made up but it is beyond delusional. Max delusional, in fact.
"You post under a name "MaxPower" and you are fixated on what someone else uses."
lmao. So you say my name is made up, I mention your own name is made up and now you demand that a Name I never claimed is on my driver's license is real?
You're honestly delusional and... let's be honest. Probably drunk on a Friday as usual
thank you for confirming that you live in a fantasy world of delusion in which you throw rocks at whoever you want from a fake user name.
You are sick, Max, or whatever your name is.
you repeatedly and reflexively blame me for your own deranged behaviors and thoughts.
Ben has been to Saudi Arabia. It is fine for gays and everyone else - but you made a sick comment about Bastian keeping Hauenstein...
thank you for confirming that you live in a fantasy world of delusion in which you throw rocks at whoever you want from a fake user name.
You are sick, Max, or whatever your name is.
you repeatedly and reflexively blame me for your own deranged behaviors and thoughts.
Ben has been to Saudi Arabia. It is fine for gays and everyone else - but you made a sick comment about Bastian keeping Hauenstein out of Saudi Arabia.
Your're a homophone and an Islamophobe - on top of being a nut case.
I'm so glad we have given you the opportunity to prove that.
and if you really think the Saudis are some mean bunch of people that run around knocking off people they don't like, are you really sure you are safe?
Perfect match. Both Saudi Arabia and the US South are known for extrajudicial killing. In the US, it's called lynching but is now not nearly as common as before.
Are you wearing your SPLC t-shirt from your ongoing donations?
DL's decision to go ahead and put this route on sale indicates that they will get enough A35Ks by the summer of 2027 to allow DL to start the routes that are being started in the summer and fall of 2026 incluiding LAX-HKG and ATL/BOS-TLV.
DL is supposed to get its last 5 359s in 2026 which means, net of 763 retirements, DL would have very little growth capacity in 2026.
ATL-DEL is...
DL's decision to go ahead and put this route on sale indicates that they will get enough A35Ks by the summer of 2027 to allow DL to start the routes that are being started in the summer and fall of 2026 incluiding LAX-HKG and ATL/BOS-TLV.
DL is supposed to get its last 5 359s in 2026 which means, net of 763 retirements, DL would have very little growth capacity in 2026.
ATL-DEL is still to be put on sale but they may wait for the 35K for that.
I suspect we will see several more route announcements made by the time Hauenstein leaves as well as the additional Boeing order which includes 787s.
As for subsidies, one need only look at BNE to see a city that UA started from two gateways and then cut back when subsidies were cut to UA - and DL picked them up.
To say that DL is the only airline that loves subsidies is devoid of the truth.
And Israel is part of the Middle East. based on what has been announced, DL will be larger than AA.
And UA proved in the 3rd quarter that its focus on market share and size is not what is best for the business since UA posted the worst RASM performance among the big 4. UA's wild days of expansion and trying to maintain size above other carriers is over - which is part of why AA and DL will grow their international networks over the next couple years.
Are you wearing your SPLC t-shirt from your ongoing donations?
Clearly the re-launch of this article is meant as a click bait to Tim Dunn to start another round of insane comments
Ben frequently refreshes articles when routes go on sale.
Feel free to debate the points I make in the post I made if you disagree.
No point to debate with Timmy.
We all know own how it (never) ends.
Are there onwards connections or we'll have to book a separate ticket for that.
"So Delta is doing what it can here, and something is better than nothing."
They could've gotten with Etihad, who is actually in existence and has an actual network.
Even if they left them 5-10 years later, it would still at least offer a real connecting network, rather than a dream about an "airline" that might someday be a thing, to their customers.
suppose, just suppose, that DL mgmt really did talk to EY and decided not to do any kind of partnership with them for any one of a number of reasons which will never become public?
or suppose they did and didn't get the usual DL-preferential terms so balked?
Ben ... this line made me laugh so hard "And as we know, Delta frequent flyers love their Woodford, so… "
Spot on ✈️
all of these airlines going to saudi are such a waste of flight slots.
I can’t say that I understand the route, even with the subsidies- they would have to be enough to be guaranteed a yield of 10-15%. I lived in KSA for a while and took the IAD-RUH on SV a few times. I would think (without hard data) this capital-to-capital route would have greater demand, yet each time I flew it, it was almost empty. The most extreme example was 35 pax on a 77W. In...
I can’t say that I understand the route, even with the subsidies- they would have to be enough to be guaranteed a yield of 10-15%. I lived in KSA for a while and took the IAD-RUH on SV a few times. I would think (without hard data) this capital-to-capital route would have greater demand, yet each time I flew it, it was almost empty. The most extreme example was 35 pax on a 77W. In fairness, it’s been a few years, and things may have changed. But, Delta tends to disciplined enough that if Delta doesn’t project a return on investment, Delta doesn’t try. So, it’s either subsidies or someone at DL owes the king a hell of a favor (kidding, as that would be illegal).
The logical flights are IAH (oil company operations) and JFK (oil company finance). I can't imagine there is much demand from anyone else, including government employees. There's maybe 100 people in an embassy staff and other diplomatic missions are 20 people tops.
I wonder if Delta will serve alcohol until it enters KSA air space?
I had the same thought. I'm almost certain they'd serve on flights departing ATL, more questionable if they'll be able to serve on the return.
They will likely be able to serve in both directions when clear of Saudi airspace.
Delta is hurting for cash. They want this Saudi subsidy. They also filled a BS lawsuit against Delta Hotels to get some extra cash. They need to rethink their strategy - United is eating them up.
United reported $1 billion less profit while flying 10% more ASMs. Reality doesn’t match your narrative
Why don't you look at United vs Delta stock price for 2025? Delta is up 11.28% while United is up 33.28%. Boom - that is 3x. One Two Tee is correct, you are wrong. United IS eating Delta up...
DAL is up 1% YTD while UAL is up 2. Not exactly earth shattering or beating
And UAL is still worth just 85% of what DAL is worth.
1990
DAL is still generating the best margins in the US airline industry which explains its industry leading market cap
Airline stocks just don’t compete well for investor dollars
They're closing the gap, not eating them up. Just look at the market caps. The value of the airline is based on profitability, not how many planes they have, how many cool routes they fly, how valuable their loyalty miles are, or even how much their stock price has grown over a period of time. Though the latter is a sign that UA is improving their profitability.
Delta Air Lines: ~$40.17 billion
United Airlines: ~$32.54 billion
American Airlines: ~$9.06 billion
UAL stock, like AAL's, was so badly depressed for so many years because both were so mismanaged.
UAL has partly closed the gap but it is unlikely UAL will be able to reach parity with DAL in market cap.
UAL execs just said that they will take a hit on earnings when they settle with their labor groups, something I have said for years.
UAL's massive order book is a drag on the balance sheet...
UAL stock, like AAL's, was so badly depressed for so many years because both were so mismanaged.
UAL has partly closed the gap but it is unlikely UAL will be able to reach parity with DAL in market cap.
UAL execs just said that they will take a hit on earnings when they settle with their labor groups, something I have said for years.
UAL's massive order book is a drag on the balance sheet because it is a financial commitment. DAL doesn't place such massive orders because it is a risk to the balance sheet and provides less flexibility if there is a downturn.
Further, Airbus and Boeing have little incentive to get UA's deliveries back on track because their order book goes out so many years.
AA and DL have far more ability to negotiate because Airbus and Boeing have to win the orders every several years.
and UA's earnings YTD trail DAL by $1 billion and they have higher debt; DAL has an investment grade balance sheet while UA does not.
Tim, maybe all businesses are starting to struggle, not just Delta or United (or American); perhaps, we should consider that the 'fish rots at the head' and bad economic policies (tariffs, attacking our allies and trading partners, etc.) is not a 'good look.' (No, no... nevermind, look at United... ignore the man behind the curtain... the great and powerful Delta shall prevail!)
Tim, do you really need Rebel and I to come back and school you on Cash flow for UA vs DL the last two years? Delta is losing to UA. It's not even close.
Income statements represent decisions from 30 years ago. Cash flow represents how the businesses are doing today based on cash decisions from 30 years ago and today.
Just as a reminder that DL's partnership with Riyadh Air is about more than just air service.
DL is providing launch support esp. for maintenance operations. Methinks that the belly of a number of these ATL-RUH flights will have engines in them heading to ATL not too many years in the future
Are you really that dumb? An A350 engine barely fits into a 777F main deck in multiple pallets. You’re so full of sh*!.
Are you really that dumb?
are YOU really that dumb? the fan is routinely taken off of aircraft engines so that the core easily fits in the cargo hold of widebodies.
Just a reminder, Delta had an incident with Nightshade recently… see VFTW and LALF…
Even 1990’s deflection can’t save you.
Have there been any successful route subsidies that eventually turned into ongoing, self-sustained economic routes?
The whole notion of Saudi Arabia investing in Riyadh Air and their whole tourism infrastructure is to do exactly what the current ME3 got from their governments.
SO, yes, subsidies do turbocharge market forces. They just distort competition. Since Saudi Arabia decided it isn't going to play back seat to anyone else any longer, they are spending the money.
and it is laughable talking about subsidized international routes given that the US subsidizes air...
The whole notion of Saudi Arabia investing in Riyadh Air and their whole tourism infrastructure is to do exactly what the current ME3 got from their governments.
SO, yes, subsidies do turbocharge market forces. They just distort competition. Since Saudi Arabia decided it isn't going to play back seat to anyone else any longer, they are spending the money.
and it is laughable talking about subsidized international routes given that the US subsidizes air service to many small cities and has for years.
And DL actually is one of the smaller US airlines in EAS contracts.
Plenty. Probably the most noteworthy being the GSK subsidies on Raleigh-London, which had been in place since the 1990s and lasted more than 20 years. It kept American Airlines flying the route despite dumping its hub.
Now, nearly 3 decades later, Raleigh is a midsize city with no hub, but sustains multiple daily flights to Europe on all three alliances plus unaffiliated airlines, mostly based on GSK+Research Triangle business.
BWI-London is another good example.
Just as a point of order, Israel is part of the Middle East and DL has flown as continuously from JFK to TLV as anyone.
As for the Arab Middle East, DL flew to Egypt and Jordan and other places before United found them on a map but all of that ended on 9/11.
Sure, UA has added an extra flight to TLV and DXB - and along with their other forays, it...
Just as a point of order, Israel is part of the Middle East and DL has flown as continuously from JFK to TLV as anyone.
As for the Arab Middle East, DL flew to Egypt and Jordan and other places before United found them on a map but all of that ended on 9/11.
Sure, UA has added an extra flight to TLV and DXB - and along with their other forays, it has cost UA $1 billion in profits YTD compared to DL.
So, yeah, DL is managing to find an A350 to fly to RUH and ATL-TLV in a year that Airbus is behind schedule in delivering DL's 35Ks which would have also added ATL-DEL, yet another "longest flight on a US carrier" to a country.
Not bad for international expansion for DL in 2026. ATL-TLV, - RUH, LAX-HKG, new SEA- Med and JFK to a bunch of hot Euro destinations.
and MEL starts in a couple weeks.
and let's not get into the number of EAS destinations - AKA subsidized flights - that each US carrier operates.
“ Just as a point of order, Israel is part of the Middle East and DL has flown as continuously from JFK to TLV as anyone.”
You mean, they’ve lagged behind UA continuously in the NYC-TLV market? I love how you used JFK lol. Yes, in 2027, DL might launch some fun new routes…. I’m sure UA’s route network will have launched a cooler flight than ATL-DEL by then LMAO. (I’m an AA fan)
I...
“ Just as a point of order, Israel is part of the Middle East and DL has flown as continuously from JFK to TLV as anyone.”
You mean, they’ve lagged behind UA continuously in the NYC-TLV market? I love how you used JFK lol. Yes, in 2027, DL might launch some fun new routes…. I’m sure UA’s route network will have launched a cooler flight than ATL-DEL by then LMAO. (I’m an AA fan)
I have never seen a person take an airline article so personal… At first, making fun of you was fun. Then it was sad. Now it’s back to funny.
you revel in that extra JFK-TLV flight if it makes you sleep better tonight.
DL has taken home $1 billion more in bacon this year than UA. DL clearly gets it.
I have never seen a group of people respond so quickly to an assault on their "dear one" as the UA fans.
You'd think I just called their mother some nasty name - but, no, I am just telling the truth.
Flying 10% MORE...
you revel in that extra JFK-TLV flight if it makes you sleep better tonight.
DL has taken home $1 billion more in bacon this year than UA. DL clearly gets it.
I have never seen a group of people respond so quickly to an assault on their "dear one" as the UA fans.
You'd think I just called their mother some nasty name - but, no, I am just telling the truth.
Flying 10% MORE ASMs costs UA $ 1 billion in profit.
Maybe I was right all along that UA would not be adding a bunch of capacity because it would dilute their revenue in their hubs; UA execs said, wait, wait, growth in 2026 will be minimal esp. across the Atlantic.
Just as all those 787s and 321XLRs come, UA execs are not growing.
Someone called it and it wasn't you.
You, the pot calling the kettle black when Ben writes an article about Delta that doesn’t give them a gold medal for being the mOsT pReMiUm AiRlInE.
“ I have never seen a group of people respond so quickly to an assault on their "dear one" as the UA fans.
You'd think I just called their mother some nasty name - but, no, I am just telling the truth.”
doesn't matter what Ben or anyone else writes.
DL manages to make more money than any US competitor.
THAT is the definition of premium.
If you put studded diamonds on the armrests but no one will pay for it, then it really isn't premium, now is it?
DL has figured out how to get people TO ACTUALLY PAY FOR ITS PRODUCT better than anyone else.
actually that's YOUR definition of premium :)
yeah.. as you know. They don't. United generates more free cash flow and has for more than two years now. That's actually "more money" and it's real money. not accounting like your fake profit definition. It's amazing you even dare call yourself anything related to financial analyst on a joke of another website. You don't even understand the basics of the three major financial statements.
Tim, why do you always talk about more ASMs equating more of anything? Profits are determined by yield, a result of profits and costs.
UA is the most profitable carrier from operating an airline. They also have the most revenue from operating the airline.
DL brings in more thanks to the oil refinery, credit card revenue, and the MRO. That’s great for them but UA flying is more profitable than DL’s flying. As...
Tim, why do you always talk about more ASMs equating more of anything? Profits are determined by yield, a result of profits and costs.
UA is the most profitable carrier from operating an airline. They also have the most revenue from operating the airline.
DL brings in more thanks to the oil refinery, credit card revenue, and the MRO. That’s great for them but UA flying is more profitable than DL’s flying. As UA takes steps with Chase, the non-airline gaps will narrow.
But this is an area for fans of the airline industry, not an investment community. We’re fascinated by flying part of the industry, by the fleet growth and the huge aircraft orders.
So yes, being the largest airline in the world, flying to far-flung places around the world while also maintaining a huge domestic network, an upgraded fleet, and large profits is what we like to follow.
There are plenty of forums and websites for the investment community.
Just wrapping up a great vacation so I won’t be engaging in an endless debate, but I wanted to make those points, since I’ve seen your ASM point made so many times, though it’s irrelevant to yield.
Mark,
you are the one that loves to talk about how much more UA gets from flying passengers.
Problem is that it doesn't.
and as soon as you want to exclude credit card revenue, drop a note to Scottie and tell him to stop talking about it.
The refinery doesn't come close to generating anywhere near $1 billion more in profits - but UA wanted to buy a refinery but failed at that...
Mark,
you are the one that loves to talk about how much more UA gets from flying passengers.
Problem is that it doesn't.
and as soon as you want to exclude credit card revenue, drop a note to Scottie and tell him to stop talking about it.
The refinery doesn't come close to generating anywhere near $1 billion more in profits - but UA wanted to buy a refinery but failed at that too. and DL does adjust its revenue for the refinery and breaks out the profit from it - but when you are so fixated on deflecting from UA's miss, you can't possibly read that data.
So, UA really does trail DL in profits by a country mile based on the same metrics that UA itself chooses to use.
UA trails in yield. and profits. Mark.
You don't need to argue. You just need to accept reality.
and, btw, you might have missed on your little vacay that Kirby said UA's growth will slow to a standstill in 2026. All of that extra capacity UA through into markets around the world IS WHY UA's yields and RASM tanked.
Scottie is a smart boy; he usually makes most mistakes only one at a time.
But it was clear to anyone that understands the industry - that UA's massive growth and capacity dumping would only hurt United - and that is what I have said for years.
I am tickled pink that Scottie is following my advice to slow the growth, boost the profits, and retire a bunch of old, fuel inefficient airplanes
I don't think there's any commonly accepted definition of 'premium' which consists of arguably offering a better level of service than one competitor, especially when you're competing against potentially dozens of them. The fact that DL may have some products that are more popular with certain customers than the UA equivalents isn't of a huge amount of concern to people flying a city pair that's also available on LOT, Iberia, Aeromexico, Cathay, Turkish Airlines or...
I don't think there's any commonly accepted definition of 'premium' which consists of arguably offering a better level of service than one competitor, especially when you're competing against potentially dozens of them. The fact that DL may have some products that are more popular with certain customers than the UA equivalents isn't of a huge amount of concern to people flying a city pair that's also available on LOT, Iberia, Aeromexico, Cathay, Turkish Airlines or whatever.
This RASM/CASM/margin stuff is only really relevant to institutional investors in the USA who probably wouldn't be touching airline stocks were it not for the ability of those airlines to take advantage of the quirks of the country's banking system.
Ben, could you say a bit more about AA and United’s strengths in the ME/A/India?
What partners are you thinking about?
AA has Qatar and Oman Air as oneworld partners. UA has its deal with Emirates and Air India, Egyptair, and Turkish in Star Alliance.
I think there is more here. Saudi has been “closed” for business for years and is now changing that mindset. You have shared some amazing hotel developments in the country and I know several companies that are investing in Saudi as it has an enormous potential to be the next UAE at a much bigger size. UAE has around 15MM people mostly expats. Saudi has over 30MM people mostly locals and they are making it...
I think there is more here. Saudi has been “closed” for business for years and is now changing that mindset. You have shared some amazing hotel developments in the country and I know several companies that are investing in Saudi as it has an enormous potential to be the next UAE at a much bigger size. UAE has around 15MM people mostly expats. Saudi has over 30MM people mostly locals and they are making it super attractive for expats to move there. They will host the 2034 Fifa World Cup so having flights to Ryad may soon be a great advantage. Time will tell but apparently the country is moving in the right direction.
"UAE has around 15MM people mostly expats."
Surely you mean migrant labour.
"Saudi as it has an enormous potential to be the next UAE at a much bigger size."
Potential yes. If however it does not remove some of those restrictions, that what will remain - merely a potential.
While many are indeed migrant laborers, there are also quite a few foreigners who have relocated to Dubai and other UAE emirates because of their perceived opportunities and the tax benefits they receive for doing so. My understanding is that there are upwards of 200,000 Brits working there at this point.
I wonder what conditions are the subsidies? If it allows one stops, an airline could use these subsidies to pro up new one stop routes to Riyadh. Examples might include one stops to Stuttgart, Geneva, Birmingham, or other cities on the way to Riyadh
Very odd. So Delta will operate a flight to Ryihadh but not India??
Far more business between US and India than Saudi Arabia plus a much friendlier country.
Excellent news to hear about the resumption of Atlanta to Tel Aviv!
What makes you think India is friendlier than Saudi.
Anti-hinditism?
Going through Indian airports is the biggest hassle in life. Nowhere else does immigration and customs take that long..and Indian airports are extremely consistent in that! They definitely don't make things easy, for anyone except the politically-connected and politicians themselves.
Saudi Arabia will be wayyyy more preferable a destination in aviation than India ever will be.
Comprehensively incorrect - India is just not that prepared for connecting traffic but it's inaccurate that immigration is a nightmare; sounds more anecdotal than anything else. I visit 3x/year from the US and it has never taken more than 15 minutes to get out of DEL/BOM immigration and have no political connections, just common sense. You also don't run the risk of getting flogged for having your ankles exposed either.
Saudi Arabia's tourism has...
Comprehensively incorrect - India is just not that prepared for connecting traffic but it's inaccurate that immigration is a nightmare; sounds more anecdotal than anything else. I visit 3x/year from the US and it has never taken more than 15 minutes to get out of DEL/BOM immigration and have no political connections, just common sense. You also don't run the risk of getting flogged for having your ankles exposed either.
Saudi Arabia's tourism has predominantly religiously motivated. If you exclude those numbers, India is ahead.
Definitely, it does not take only "15 minutes" to get out of these 2 airports, it takes at least that amount of time just standing in line for immigration. It takes at least 10 minutes at either airport, or Hyderabad, or Bangalore, or Kolkata..just to walk from the plane to immigration.
Saudi Arabia is a nation of 35 million people that is expanding in all kinds of areas today, including in golf, soccer, the iconic...
Definitely, it does not take only "15 minutes" to get out of these 2 airports, it takes at least that amount of time just standing in line for immigration. It takes at least 10 minutes at either airport, or Hyderabad, or Bangalore, or Kolkata..just to walk from the plane to immigration.
Saudi Arabia is a nation of 35 million people that is expanding in all kinds of areas today, including in golf, soccer, the iconic Red Sea resorts, NEOM, Riyadh is happening, Jeddah is beautiful.
Influencers from America and Europe are profiling all this for the world to see, and they are amazed and feel totally safe and secure.
Mostly, Non-resident Indians are the ones visiting India, to visit family, go on religious Yatras, and save money in health + dental care.
Hajj tourism numbers show about 1.6 million visitors, that's including about 60 nations. Over 1.4 million Indians themselves visited last year, as Indians are experiencing new locations in the Middle East now.
Are Jews and Israelis allowed on the flight? If not, is Delta a part of a voluntary discrimination?
Jews are allowed in Saudi Arabia, and many Jews travel to Saudi Arabia. I would argue that Jews may feel safer today in Saudi Arabia than most European capitals. Israelis are technically not allowed, but we'll see if that changes if Saudi Arabia joins the Abraham Accords
Israelis are only allowed on one way flights to The Hague. To go on trial for the slaughter of children. Including a soldier shooting a nine year old in the illegally occupied West Bank today.
Our allies are eliminating enemies of America (which the Palestinians are), very often before they become threats. I see nothing wrong with this.
You meant ‘Hamas’ (not all Palestinians), but, I get how it might be easier for you (and the hardliners) to just vilify them all anyway. (Collective punishment!)
You know, kinda like how all Trump supporters don’t consider themselves to be Nazis, but some literally say that they have a ‘Nazi streak’ in them… *cough*
No, I meant all Palestinians. The news reports of Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11 was enough. They're enemies of the US and will always be enemies of the US. Hamas, Fatah, Black September, all representative of their "people".
@Ben can you stop this account justifying killing children?
Thanks
Boo hoo, snowflake. Report me to the Hague.
Delta… the Dave Chappelle of airlines.
And I mean that with a degree of cynicism and respect. *raises glass of Samuel Jackson beer*
@1990 if you see the need to 'explain' yourself in a postcript, start by writing better in the first place, so that you don't have to keep explaining yourself..
“There aren’t many airlines that love subsidies and loopholes more than Delta”.
This! And just a few years ago they were crying to the govt about subsidies - tee-hee!
I don’t understand the argument for “premium delta.” It always feels so Low budget to me, their old-as planes, tryinf to make shake shack catering seem like a gift lol, the nasty baby blue leather seats…all tacky. Wouldn’t be surprised if they scrape the...
“There aren’t many airlines that love subsidies and loopholes more than Delta”.
This! And just a few years ago they were crying to the govt about subsidies - tee-hee!
I don’t understand the argument for “premium delta.” It always feels so Low budget to me, their old-as planes, tryinf to make shake shack catering seem like a gift lol, the nasty baby blue leather seats…all tacky. Wouldn’t be surprised if they scrape the seat cushions for loose change every night as part of their revenue premium. But hey, if they’re not going to lose money on this one, go for it I guess. Annoyed that they’re ignoring us up in NYC amidst other route cancellations, Belgium was easy to get upgrades on when I couldn’t confirm to Paris (au revoir, BRU!).
Each of the airlines does this. It’s form of kabuki theater. ‘You can’t give other airlines subsidies! That’s fascism/communism!’ Yet…*both hands out when its their turn*
Well, you have options, do stop whining.
If you stopped whining, we’d never hear from you again, John… you know, because it’s the only thing you do on here. So, I say, please stick around. Keep whining. It’s a better world with you whining in it.
LOL ....adda boy ...." Keep Ciimbing ! " , "Keep Whining ! "
Surprised United isn’t launching something from EWR even with limited connection offerings. They also love random routes internationally but might be constrained by planes.