Delta Air Lines has long been laser focused on consistency, though the latest Boeing 737s added to the Atlanta-based carrier’s fleet offer an unfamiliar and subpar experience.
In this post:
Delta picking up 33 former Lion Air Boeing 737s
During the pandemic, Delta strategically picked up some used planes. In addition to picking up some used former LATAM Airbus A350-900s, the airline also decided to pick up 33 former Lion Air Boeing 737-900ERs.
For those not familiar, Lion Air is an Indonesia low cost carrier, and the airline had some fairly new Boeing 737s that it no longer needed, as the airline is taking delivery of new Boeing 737 MAXs.
Unlike other airlines, Delta has never been particularly focused on flying new planes. Rather the carrier’s priority is picking up planes at a good price, and then outfitting the planes with modern interiors that customers will like.
Delta is now in the process of adding these planes to its fleet. The first of these former Lion Air Boeing 737s started flying for Delta as of mid-November 2022, and that’s the plane with the registration code N951DX. It’s a roughly nine year old plane, which first started flying for Lion Air in August 2013. All 33 planes should be flying for Delta within less than a year, by October 2023.
These 737s don’t have standard Delta interiors
In the case of these former Lion Air Boeing 737s, Delta has skipped the step of retrofitting these jets with the carrier’s standard interiors. Delta has clearly rushed to put these planes into service, as they are “needed quickly to support [Delta’s] operation.”
The reason Delta rushed so much to get these planes into service is because of staffing shortages, particularly at regional airlines. Delta’s partners are struggling to keep their full fleet of regional jets flying, as there aren’t enough pilots. While a nearly 200 seat Boeing 737-900ER isn’t an ideal replacement for a regional jet, Delta is trying to make the best of the situation.
So, what’s different about these used Boeing 737-900ERs?
- They currently feature just 12 first class seats, rather than the standard 20
- They don’t have Wi-Fi; this is expected to be added to all of these planes between January and April of 2023
- They don’t have a proper Comfort+ cabin, but rather just the first row of economy is designated as Comfort+
- Some of the planes have power ports, while others don’t
- The seats do sport Delta’s signature blue seat covers, and do have personal televisions
Delta recognizes that these planes offer an inferior experience, so the airline is specifically operating these planes out of Atlanta, exclusively on 18 routes that are under 500 miles. That way people don’t get stuck on these planes on longer flights.
While Delta plans to add Wi-Fi and streaming entertainment to these jets in the coming months, don’t expect the planes to be reconfigured with Delta’s standard interiors until 2024.
For example, take the below flight from Atlanta to Panama City, Florida. As you can see when searching flights on delta.com, this flight doesn’t feature the standard amenities you expect on Delta, like Wi-Fi.
The seatmap will also show the first class cabin with just 12 seats, plus the lack of a Comfort+ cabin.
Admittedly Delta is handling this situation as well as it can, deploying these planes on shorter flights out of a single hub. At the same time, the way these planes are being put into service really gives you a sense of how desperately Delta needs the capacity, as the airline is willing to sacrifice consistency for the sake of adding more seats.
Bottom line
Delta has picked up 33 former Lion Air Boeing 737-900ERs. The first plane is now in service, and you can expect all 33 jets will be flying by October 2023. These planes have very different interiors than Delta’s standard 737s — the first class cabin is smaller, there’s no dedicated Comfort+ cabin, and the planes don’t have Wi-Fi for the time being.
If you find yourself on one of these Delta planes and they look unfamiliar, now you know why…
What do you make of how Delta is putting these 737-900ERs into service?
Delta price and Spirit amenities
One advantage is the first class leg room is much higher than the standard Delta configuration. At 6’8”, it’s a big win for me even on short hauls.
3A, CHS-ATL
Im currently sitting on one now, from ATL to TLH. One row of comfort plus and 12 first class. There’s a strange plug in the monitor screen, maybe a-video?
Our equipment was changed to the 900er from DTW to SLC and we are no placed directly behind the closet with 4 people and broke us up in comfort+. It sounds like there is not much benefit to + on these planes but maybe I am wrong.
Flew the Atl to PC aircraft. While the missing WIFI was a little disappointing. The first class seating offered leg rests and the seats were very comfortable. There was more legroom! I'm not complaining g at all.
Eeek. It isn't like Delta's standard 737s are the epitome of comfort, either. One of the most miserable flights in recent memory is a 2020 flight from LAX to CUN on a 739. And we were in First Class, still miserable.
Seems reasonable, older 737's for short trips. The 737 is probably one of the most durable planes out there, SWA beats theirs to a pulp and they still fly. I doubt this is a long term plan. Kind of a non-issue TBH.
As a Delta 2 million miler and lifetime Gold medallion member who has retired and no longer travel 3 weeks a month, I feel fortunate my Delta travel is much less frequent and only for pleasure. Delta can no longer expect a premium price from travelers if they cannot be consistent like a SW. I am still using ff miles to travel but carefully check aircraft type and cabin layout before booking especially on international...
As a Delta 2 million miler and lifetime Gold medallion member who has retired and no longer travel 3 weeks a month, I feel fortunate my Delta travel is much less frequent and only for pleasure. Delta can no longer expect a premium price from travelers if they cannot be consistent like a SW. I am still using ff miles to travel but carefully check aircraft type and cabin layout before booking especially on international long haul since they added those used 350's. I have not been on any older Delta aircraft with shabby interiors, Delta's tech ops is excellent at keeping the planes mechanics and interiors in tip top shape. Lack of crew staffing and in tech ops will not go away soon so Delta needs to do something extra for mediation customers who fly on these "new" aircraft, like a sliding scale bonus based on your ff status, 25% for silver, 50% for gold etc. The international premium select is a big winner in my view. I discontinued my sky club membership, the hub clubs in Atlanta especially are terribly crowded and frankly dirty probably due to lack of staff. BTW, the first flight I took on a Delta aircraft was a DC-7 in 1960 as a child with my grandparents. Everyone, including me was well dressed, men in suits, women wearing hats and gloves.
BH,
congrats on a long lifetime of flying.
Perceptions of quality and deterioration of such are subjective just as is the enjoyment factor of travel. The world of air travel in the 60s simply does not exist any more in part due to a less formal society as a whole but also because the US government made the decision to open up air travel to the masses by moving air travel from a...
BH,
congrats on a long lifetime of flying.
Perceptions of quality and deterioration of such are subjective just as is the enjoyment factor of travel. The world of air travel in the 60s simply does not exist any more in part due to a less formal society as a whole but also because the US government made the decision to open up air travel to the masses by moving air travel from a government controlled oligopoly that served the elite to a mass transportation system that has allowed billions of people to travel by air over the past 40+ years since U.S. domestic airline deregulation was implemented - and which spread throughout the world.
Subjectivity IS the reason why many people participate in internet chat forums - and Ben offers a great opportunity for people to dialogue about their experiences and preferences. I am happy to put a few pennies in Ben's bank account by increasing his page views.
But let's also distinguish VERY CAREFULLY between subjective and objective factors. The word "inferior" is subjective but is clearly used here based on someone's perception of a COMBINATION of very objective factors.
- who honestly cares whether an asset is used or bought new? Aviation is highly regulated and Delta has to meet the same standards for putting a foreign operated used aircraft in service as Boeing does to deliver a new 737.
- The used 737-900ERs have MORE LEGROOM in coach than the "standard" Delta 737-900ERs - and that is easily confirmable from the same website - delta.com - that some people ran to pick out cherrypicked data such as the "minimum seat pitch" on some models rather than the average or standard.
- Even if seat pitch was the basis for comparison, the person defending AA's coach product, not surprisingly excluded AA's 737-800/MAX 8 fleet which has a tighter pitch than any legacy carrier fleet - and real fliers know that.
- What is non-standard about these aircraft is the lack of Wifi and seatback AVOD compared to the rest of Delta's 737-900ER fleet - but as noted there are significant global supply chain issues that are impacting all aspects of the economy. Delta is not operating non-standard aircraft by choice but because they can't get parts any faster - and neither can airlines that are putting new aircraft in service.
- Multiple self-identified high mileage fliers have stated that the "defects" of these aircraft and how they will be used simply don't matter to them.
- American has virtually NO AVOD equipped aircraft and flies 250 more regional jets than Delta, none of which have AVOD for any airline. preference for what matters - high speed internet or AVOD - can be easily confirmed by the number of people using each feature on aircraft. AVOD wins hands down with 60+% of people on Delta AVOD equipped aircraft having engaged their screens.
- and, as noted, when true objective measures are weighed by independent industry watchers, Delta consistently ranks far higher than American or United and in most categories Southwest as well.
Southwest runs a simple but far less reliable operation than Delta - and often less than American or United.
- and Delta does get a revenue premium - and that is an objective measure, not an opinion. Whether anyone thinks they should or not is secondary to the reality that there are people that pay more for Delta services than others do for other airline services.
before someone comes unglued, let me correct my post to say that American has virtually no DOMESTIC/NARROWBODY AVOD equipped aircraft.
Love how you have the nerve to talk about anyone coming unglued when you spend DAYS commenting on every post about a negative DL article.
Oh Timmy... a Delta lifetimer posts and you still tell them they're wrong for their opinion. Get a grip. AA has AVOD and power across their entire fleet. They don't have seatback IFE. And I might remind you, most people love the E175: a plane DL can't fly as...
Love how you have the nerve to talk about anyone coming unglued when you spend DAYS commenting on every post about a negative DL article.
Oh Timmy... a Delta lifetimer posts and you still tell them they're wrong for their opinion. Get a grip. AA has AVOD and power across their entire fleet. They don't have seatback IFE. And I might remind you, most people love the E175: a plane DL can't fly as much as AA due to their pilot contract, not their customer's wants/needs. And also, it's amazing you don't go off on the DL 717 more or Delta's choice not to upgrade it to standards given it's lack of seatback IFE.... Words are tough for you, as are positive thoughts about AA, but try...
As always. Get off your couch, take a shower, put down the passport plum kool aid and vodka, and get a grip with reality.
Seems like US going downhill fast and faster .. picking up third world unused item second hand. The country politics and capitalism goes awfully wrong completely pull the country down the drain and seeing glory of past soon
you mean, aircraft that were built in the US in the first place and were available while MAXs sat undelivered for years due to Boeing's failures?
If there was anything falling apart in aviation, it was Boeing's failure to manage Boeing's management of the 737MAX program which led to its grounding and provided a stronger incentive for Delta to buy used and proven 737 models. You do realize that Delta just finished receiving an...
you mean, aircraft that were built in the US in the first place and were available while MAXs sat undelivered for years due to Boeing's failures?
If there was anything falling apart in aviation, it was Boeing's failure to manage Boeing's management of the 737MAX program which led to its grounding and provided a stronger incentive for Delta to buy used and proven 737 models. You do realize that Delta just finished receiving an order for over 100 of the same model just a few years before - but the 737-900ER is no longer produced?
Even now that the MAX8 and 9 are back in the air, Boeing still cannot deliver scores of MAX7s for Southwest and MAX10s for United due to certification failures which Delta expects that Boeing will get fixed by 2025 when Delta starts taking delivery of its own MAX 10 order - but will be one of the last US orders to put the MAX into service.
Sometimes buying something proven and used makes more sense than standing at the front of the line while the manufacturer has to work out problems with its own product.
Perfectly reasonable. On such a short trip do you really need or care about the extra services. If Delta has some flights with the services and others without, the ones without will presumably be cheaper.
Everyone has their go-to carrier and experiences are indeed, subjective.
However, industry performance metrics are based on criteria against which, all carriers are measured. Same with industry-related awards.
So, why is DL always atop the list of the big 3 legacy carriers for on-time arrivals, in-flight service, least customer complaints, lounges, and so on?
Why has this consistently been the case for years and years?
…and where does AA and UA consistently...
Everyone has their go-to carrier and experiences are indeed, subjective.
However, industry performance metrics are based on criteria against which, all carriers are measured. Same with industry-related awards.
So, why is DL always atop the list of the big 3 legacy carriers for on-time arrivals, in-flight service, least customer complaints, lounges, and so on?
Why has this consistently been the case for years and years?
…and where does AA and UA consistently fall on the list? You do the math. The numbers don’t lie.
agree
What branded credit card does on need to get upgraded to the capacity limited "big front seats"? Asking for a friend....
Ummm... better than a CRJ-200 on ATL-ECP!!
The complainers would presumably rather be on an RJ? No thank you.
which, of course you are more likely to find on Alaska, American or United since Delta operates the LOWEST percentage of its network on regional jets than any of the four US airlines that have regional jets in its network.
Busy day for you, Timmy lol
You really do let yourself get far too riled up over nothing
because of covid supply lines are all messed up and wifi antenas are not available for 1 more year (my guess is the micro chips are on back order) not only do these lion air jets are on a wifi waiting list but most of the delta a330-900neos are also flying around with NO wifi... in any case any 737-900 ER beats any 737-800 or 737-700
DL is taking some well deserved criticism over its bad lounge access changes but these cabins though a bit disappointing, are an interim fix for 500 mile or shorter routes, a distance that I could do standing on my head, a non issue IMO.
Lounge access changes allows more space for the top tier traveler. It becomes more elite.
Oh stop whining. It's an airplane trip. Sit down, shut up and watch the scenery go by like I do without harping about the interior.
agree
A little bit of a misleading and misinformation type of headline and story. Yes, maybe these purchased aircrafts interiors do not initially match up with Deltas typical standard interiors. But Delta will most certainly, when they can, reconfigure and upgrade these interiors and entertainment systems. That is what airlines do.
Also, the 737-900 is a pretty modern and new aircraft. 9 years old by airplane standards is nothing. Your story is much about nothing.
^This times 1000.
And there are rumors that Delta managed to get Boeing to reconfigure these aircraft as part of Delta's purchase of MAX 10s. Not only did Delta get the MRO contract for LEAP engines out of the deal but Boeing is apparently reconfiguring used aircraft that Delta bought elsewhere.
Boeing did the same thing for the 717s that Delta acquired from AirTran/Southwest.
Since Gary over at VFTW got dragged into the...
^This times 1000.
And there are rumors that Delta managed to get Boeing to reconfigure these aircraft as part of Delta's purchase of MAX 10s. Not only did Delta get the MRO contract for LEAP engines out of the deal but Boeing is apparently reconfiguring used aircraft that Delta bought elsewhere.
Boeing did the same thing for the 717s that Delta acquired from AirTran/Southwest.
Since Gary over at VFTW got dragged into the conversation, he is right that Delta is a very tough negotiator and, even when they do a deal 50-50, Delta takes the hyphen.
The only part Gary misses is that Delta does that with its suppliers while giving the hypen - and more - to its employees.
And Southwest does it at least as good as Delta does.
While these aircraft will have a non-standard configuration, they are not necessarily inferior. That can be confirmed from Delta.com where the configuration shows that coach will have 1 inch more legroom than the standard 737-900ERs.
Second, it is patently incorrect to say that Delta "has never been focused on flying new aircraft." United has the oldest fleet among US airlines while American has fewer aircraft on order than Delta - planes don't age faster...
While these aircraft will have a non-standard configuration, they are not necessarily inferior. That can be confirmed from Delta.com where the configuration shows that coach will have 1 inch more legroom than the standard 737-900ERs.
Second, it is patently incorrect to say that Delta "has never been focused on flying new aircraft." United has the oldest fleet among US airlines while American has fewer aircraft on order than Delta - planes don't age faster for Delta than do for American.
Third, let's not forget that American, Southwest, and United have ALL experienced delivery delays due to Boeing's screwups of BOTH of the only two model families it is currently delivering. Delta's choice is to buy used Boeing aircraft or new Airbus aircraft.
Fourth, the timeframe for converting ANY used aircraft - A350-900s or B737-900ERs - to Delta standard configuration - is dependent in the SAME supply chain issues that is slowing aircraft deliveries - including for seats, galleys, seat back AVOD and WiFi. The notion that United will be able to buy "premium experience" equipped aircraft components for hundreds more new aircraft but Delta can't for retrofits is patently false.
Fifth, Delta has precisely THREE used A350-900s flying with non-standard Delta A350 interiors - a fraction of the United widebody fleet that doesn't have direct aisle access or a premium economy cabin.
Yes, they are inferior. You and the rest of your Delta fanboy coterie continually promote Delta's experience as superior to all NA airlines. These planes are not configured to provide that experience. While I consider Delta's experience to be third or fourth among the Big Four, fighting it out at the bottom of the barrel with American, you keep promoting its cabin and FAs as a cut above. I find the cabins uncomfortable and the...
Yes, they are inferior. You and the rest of your Delta fanboy coterie continually promote Delta's experience as superior to all NA airlines. These planes are not configured to provide that experience. While I consider Delta's experience to be third or fourth among the Big Four, fighting it out at the bottom of the barrel with American, you keep promoting its cabin and FAs as a cut above. I find the cabins uncomfortable and the FAs surly, but your experience may vary, and considering that this is Timmy Of The Delta Blinders, it does.
Having FEWER seats in a class does not necessarily mean inferior. It just doesn't. AA has planes with 12 or fewer first class seats. Many of the low cost carriers don't have extra legroom seats at all other than at exit rows - and then only when required by law.
There might be fewer opportunities for a premium seat but, if there is an "inferior" experience it is due to a lack of Wifi...
Having FEWER seats in a class does not necessarily mean inferior. It just doesn't. AA has planes with 12 or fewer first class seats. Many of the low cost carriers don't have extra legroom seats at all other than at exit rows - and then only when required by law.
There might be fewer opportunities for a premium seat but, if there is an "inferior" experience it is due to a lack of Wifi or seatback audio - both of which are not even "standard" at AA, DL or WN.
Different is accurate - but you and Ben can cling to "inferior" if it makes you feel better.
High speed wiifi is absolutely standard at AA. High speed across the entire fleet. Something that has never been a standard at Delta, even more so now.
Your delta fanboyism knows no bounds that you can't even recognize how these planes are inferior in every way to every other plane in the US3.
The fun question is whether these plans will remain in the standard Lion Air 29" pitch in economy... Ironically, the...
High speed wiifi is absolutely standard at AA. High speed across the entire fleet. Something that has never been a standard at Delta, even more so now.
Your delta fanboyism knows no bounds that you can't even recognize how these planes are inferior in every way to every other plane in the US3.
The fun question is whether these plans will remain in the standard Lion Air 29" pitch in economy... Ironically, the 38" pitch in first for these planes as figured today is higher seat pitch than nearly all of Delta's current fleet.
Put your kool aid and vodka down, hop off the couch, and come back to reality, Timmy.
if you read ALL of what I wrote, you would see the reality that ANY airline consistently has a total premium experience is false - and NO ONE EVER SAID, esp. at Delta.
People come up with their own narratives and push them only to find something to trash others about.
AA simply has taken the WN approach to cabin interiors but with less legroom. No seatback IFE. Widespread high speed Wifi is the ONLY attribute at which AA excels.
What interesting comparisons by Tim. But facts are what they are, Timmy. Delta does plenty of things great. AA does plenty of things great and poorly too. But facts are facts.
Consistent all-aisle access in International J:
AA- Yes
DL - No. An active choice to not have it and on their "flagship" A350 aircraft too... to say nothing of putting a plastic door on the old coffin seat and calling it a...
What interesting comparisons by Tim. But facts are what they are, Timmy. Delta does plenty of things great. AA does plenty of things great and poorly too. But facts are facts.
Consistent all-aisle access in International J:
AA- Yes
DL - No. An active choice to not have it and on their "flagship" A350 aircraft too... to say nothing of putting a plastic door on the old coffin seat and calling it a "suite" or their past-prime 763s. But sure... put a used plane in service, tell people you'll get around to redoing the interior eventually and call it "consistency"...
Consistent high speed wifi across all narrow bodies:
AA- Yes
DL- No
Any wifi across your entire wide body fleet:
AA-Yes
DL-No -Again, a purposeful choice with their A350s
Hell, let's make its easier on Delta: any Wifi across your entire narrow body fleet:
AA - Yes
DL - No
30" pitch minimum across all economy in narrow bodies:
AA-Yes
DL-No (it would appear these aircraft may be at 29" and DL didn't view that as inconsistent with its product). If the new planes are at 30", then DL would have a minimum 30" pitch across economy since their minimum economy seat pitch on nearly every narrow body type is at 30". Otherwise, no
Consistent seatback IFE on narrow bodies:
AA-No
DL-No (with the obvious caveat of the 717 fleet making this a no with no plans for consistency and the used 739s; frankly, many of the seatback IFEs on the 738s don't work anyway).
Minimum First class narrow body first class seat pitch at 37":
AA-Yes and no. Every new retrofit is at 37" pitch. AA even did an entire retrofit of the 738 first class "oasis" when they realized the mistake that some seats were not at 37". Something Delta could do with their 35" minimum pitch, but choose not to... Caveat for AA -- the old US A320s are at 36", which is still above Delta's "upgraded" A320 interior at 35-36"
DL-No -- most "upgraded" narrow body fleets at delta have a minimum seat pitch of 35" in First per the delta website. Hell, the A320 "redone interior" tops out at 36". Only their fresh off the line narrow bodies match AA seat pitch in first.
Lounges for paying passengers in Business and first.
AA -- Hands down AA by far
DL - nope and getting farther behind AA now at JFk even with Delta One lounges in the works at some point...
Access to regular lounges:
AA - yes -- AA had an issue for a few weeks at CLT when one club closed due to a fire and remodeling but that's about it.
DL - yes with a huge caveat that even Delta acknowledges and is allowing fewer people in, to say nothing of their, quite literally, mickey mouse "speed pass" line at some clubs.
But Please, Timmy. keep up the amusing nonsense. AA does plenty of things wrong but so does Delta. And AA excels at many things above DL, as does United. But you don't see AA and UA fanboys coming on to websites to give RIA Novosti a run for winner of "best propaganda" award. Plenty of airlines needed planes quickly this past year and upcoming, Delta seems to be the only of the US carriers to disregard any and all product standards like seat pitch, wifi, and all aisle access. Who knows who messed up planning at Delta, but their desperation does appear to be unique to them in terms of sacrificing their own quality standards.
Know your facts before you say dumb things.
I'll just briefly reply, Max, to note that you selectively chose what YOU think matters and excluded a half dozen other elements and distort reality and others. Anyone can do that - it's called bias and it isn't worth replying point by point in a p234ing match.
I never said that Delta had the consistently best product - and neither has Delta.
American does a whole lot of things right - but their...
I'll just briefly reply, Max, to note that you selectively chose what YOU think matters and excluded a half dozen other elements and distort reality and others. Anyone can do that - it's called bias and it isn't worth replying point by point in a p234ing match.
I never said that Delta had the consistently best product - and neither has Delta.
American does a whole lot of things right - but their coach product is the worst of the big 4 in space and amenities; consistent high speed Wifi doesn't make up for a whole lot of other things.
And, READ AGAIN, these 737-900ER aircraft have MORE COACH LEGROOM than American OR Delta's standard domestic fleet.
It shouldn't be hard to figure out that the small comfort plus and first class cabins result in more space elsewhere - for regular economy passengers.
Actually, there are people that vigorously defend AA and UA and rabidly so - the difference is that you and others resort to name-calling and opinion when actual facts don't support your argument.
There's no distortion of reality, Tim. lol. Feel free to counter any one of them but you won't because it was a detailed fact list of hard product comparison. The good and the bad.
You want to talk about being selective... AA has the worst product? Coach or first?
DL:
A321 in F: 35" Min. 30" Y
A320 in F: 35" Min. 30" Y
A319 IN F: 35" Min. 30"...
There's no distortion of reality, Tim. lol. Feel free to counter any one of them but you won't because it was a detailed fact list of hard product comparison. The good and the bad.
You want to talk about being selective... AA has the worst product? Coach or first?
DL:
A321 in F: 35" Min. 30" Y
A320 in F: 35" Min. 30" Y
A319 IN F: 35" Min. 30" Y.
Per delta.com
All worse than the AA space in First. Same as Y. Not going to say AA has seatback IFE in their narrow body fleet, they don't, at all. But they do have high speed wifi across the entire coach product, something DL doesn't have. Delta mostly has IFE across their narrow body fleet and some of it is really great, No doubt about it, but it's extremely inconsistent. For better or worse, AA is consistent about new interiors in coach with working high-speed wifi.
per the coach space on these Lion Air planes. Feel free to post your link about economy space. Lion Air 739s have 29" pitch and this doesn't sound like much of a delta retrofit.
No one is calling you names, Tim. Stop being so sensitive, but if you're going to try to make up facts or manipulate data like you usually do, you will get called out on it. If you don't like it, stop trolling the blogs.
MAX
if you would get rid of your defensiveness for anything ACCURATELY and FACTUALLY said about American Airlines, you should go look for an article I just had published on another site that is quite favorable for American Airlines - and it is based on TOTAL FACTS, not selectively picking out a couple of data points that you want to build a thesis on.
You are simply jealous that someone else has a...
MAX
if you would get rid of your defensiveness for anything ACCURATELY and FACTUALLY said about American Airlines, you should go look for an article I just had published on another site that is quite favorable for American Airlines - and it is based on TOTAL FACTS, not selectively picking out a couple of data points that you want to build a thesis on.
You are simply jealous that someone else has a voice and says what you are incapable of saying because you won't look at the facts - all of them.
Grow up!
No one is defensive about an airline except you and delta. If you say something dumb or incorrect about aa or UA, I’m happy to provide actual facts to counter your strange kool aid.
Again. Counter any of what I said. Any of it. Whatsoever. If you’re going to make a dumb blanket statement then I counter it with actual data, then put some data back. Delta is great at marketing and making an enormous...
No one is defensive about an airline except you and delta. If you say something dumb or incorrect about aa or UA, I’m happy to provide actual facts to counter your strange kool aid.
Again. Counter any of what I said. Any of it. Whatsoever. If you’re going to make a dumb blanket statement then I counter it with actual data, then put some data back. Delta is great at marketing and making an enormous deal about seatback iFE but aside from that, their hard product is inferior or equal to AA. From shoving two Lavs in the back wall of their Airbus (something really on spirit and frontier do in the US) to the lowest seat pitch in first, delta just is what it is.
Also, post your link showing delta changinf the Lion Air 29” pitch. You’re the one who said this 900er has more legroom in coach than any other delta plane.
If you want to spend your days on the internet trolling the comments section seeking relevance with fake data, great. But you should expect those that actually know something about the industry to counter your incorrect info.
I found the United employee!
Thank goodness you’re OK. The delay in your sycophantic comment to anything involving Delta had me worried.
what is wrong with you
Someone please check on Tim Dunn.
This post has been up almost 4 hours and he hasn’t yet commented that this is just another typically genius move by Delta.
What you don't understand is that the Delta/Amex relationship is the industry standard. Someone I will try to tie these two non-related subjects together to prove my spaghetti logic.
I would also like to bring up these DOT stats that mean nothing, but make me sound like I am doing proper research.
Unlike Gary over at VFTW who's blog I have christened as now being heracy because he dares to criticize daddy Delta.
the total of 33 used jets have 2 configurations (73j and 73r)
Same as Aeromexico (expected, as Delta is part owner), you have fairly new 737 MAX planes with no Business Class, no WIFI, no IFE flying from MEX to CUN, MTY, GDL. It seems they were intended for a European Low cost carrier but were picked up by Aeromexico.
There is a sticker placed at every seat indicating they are aware of the disappointing experience but to expect the usual perks to be installed soon.
Last time I checked, Aeromexico’s MAXes all have IFEs and are a lot more consistent than their NGs
Nope, as a (very) frequent Aeromexico flyer I can assure you there are many MAXs without IFE, WIFI and proper business class.
I think those are probably 737-800NGs. Some 737-800NGs have Sky Interior too.
It’s becoming a delta standard now: inconsistent product.
Old worn out 738s
717s with no IFE and no plans for it despite marketing saying mainline planes all have it or will
A350s with no premium economy and no all-aisle access beds and no actual timetable to fix that.
The same old coffin seat in “upgraded” 767s
Worn out and worst in class business product 763s for international
And now this:...
It’s becoming a delta standard now: inconsistent product.
Old worn out 738s
717s with no IFE and no plans for it despite marketing saying mainline planes all have it or will
A350s with no premium economy and no all-aisle access beds and no actual timetable to fix that.
The same old coffin seat in “upgraded” 767s
Worn out and worst in class business product 763s for international
And now this: 739s with absolutely no thought to consistency and no real timetable to fix it
For an airline that had the most ridiculous marketing to market their consistency about all aisle access internationally and ife across their narrow bodies, the schadenfreude is delightful.
The planning department at delta seems shocked by the pilot shortage in a way aa and UA just don’t seem to be as much. Delta isn’t the only carrier to bring in used planes in the last two years, but they are the ones with no thought to consistency for a brand that was all about it.
Say what you will about aa and UA, they aren’t bringing in a Lion air or LATAM product domestically and Internationally then slapping some passport plum lipstick on it because of poor planning at HQ.
And I can’t think of an excuse for Delta. Delta doesn’t have the uncontrollable factors that United has faced (PW4000, 787 delivery halt, Panasonic supply chain issues, Zodiac supply chain issues back in 2010s). Delta has a higher advantage, which linearly correlates with higher expectations and standards.
United started the rollout of Polaris long before covid, MAX or 787 or PW 777 groundings, or anything else. United has taken longer to reconfigure its international fleet than American (which moved the fastest) or Delta.
If supply chain issues for a supplier have last ten years, then it is time to start thinking about another plan.
Yes, Polaris is taking long, but that's for two reasons: 1) A good portion of the Polaris cabins are in 787s, which have had, you may have heard since Delta doesn't purchase superior modern aircraft, delivery issues. 2) The Polaris cabin is light years ahead of the slapdash, sloppy, awful effort known as Delta One.
opinion, not facts.
The A350 costs less per seat mile for Delta to operate than the B787 does for American or United - other than the -10. A350s worldwide fly longer routes and carry more passengers over a longer distance than the B787.
You do realize that the A350-900 ALONE has outsold the B787-9, the two most closely matched A350/B787 models? The B787-10 has thousands of miles LESS range than the A350-900 OR the -1000
Delta's choice to densify their cabins with lots of economy seats has nothing to do with the performance of the 789 vs the A359. Both companies give stats about how their aircraft is better performance-wise than the other on any number of metrics. While your attempts to manipulate casm into plane cost performance in isolation are amusing, they're just that: attempts and yet another amusing attempt by Tim to say something wrong and hope no...
Delta's choice to densify their cabins with lots of economy seats has nothing to do with the performance of the 789 vs the A359. Both companies give stats about how their aircraft is better performance-wise than the other on any number of metrics. While your attempts to manipulate casm into plane cost performance in isolation are amusing, they're just that: attempts and yet another amusing attempt by Tim to say something wrong and hope no one knows differently.
And I honestly could care less whether I'm flying an A350 or a 787 and I'm excited to fly UA's A350 when it comes along (if it does) in a premium configuration, but comparing sales records like you are is just dumb. Airbus tried to sell an A358 but no one wanted it so those were merged into an A359 for those that didn't want the A330NEO. Customers did want the 788.
Not to mention your numbers are just wrong and it's like you just hoped no one would bother to look at such a random obscure stat. Per Boeing.com, the 789 has 1,071 orders as of 10/31/22 but, I believe, that's gross. Another source from September says 901 for the 789 alone
Airbus.com said they had "915+" orders in September 22 for the entire A350 family. The A350-1000 has roughly 150 orders. On 10/31/22 with the starlux delivery airbus said "Globally the A350 has registered a total of over 900 firm orders from over 50 customers, with close to 500 delivered." -- Over 900 For the entire A350 family.
"You do realize that the A350-900 ALONE has outsold the B787-9"
Are you on drugs?
787-9 orders: 911
A350-900 orders: 739
In fact, if you take out the A350 freighter variant, the 787-9 has single-handedly outsold the A350.
Lol. That is hysterical. Sorry; you were serious?
From 2017-2019, United did face supply chain issues from Safran Aerospace (seatmaker, formerly called Zodiac Aerospace)
Not sure why you keep saying "no timeline" when the airline's given one for both. I mean, not down to the day or anything, but no one would (or at least should) realistically expect that.
Nothing exceptional here. Delta is just using the same playbook as UA and AA (though AA to a much lesser degree) have done. It's cheaper to get planes second hand and eventually, these will perhaps be aligned to the DL standard. UA went with second hand A319s and some 737-700s, plus a handful of 767-300ERs (those came from HA). AA got its hands on a few Frontier A319s though those have been aligned to the AA standard for that fleet type and it was just a few.
From what I have been told by a couple of friends who work in Delta's operations control (a.k.a. dispatch), tail swapping one of these off of one of the sub-500 mile designated routes requires going up to the Director level for a decision. Basically it has to be a last resort to save multiple cancelations to fly one of these across the country.
How often does the Director approve? If it's all the time, what a waste of effort.
It'd be nice to see the list of the 18 routes that these are on. I'd bet that for a significant portion of them, the presence of these -900's is a net benefit. ECP, for example, doesn't typically get jets this size (especially this time of year). They're almost exclusively a 717 or RJ place. It's also a high fare airport. Delta dumping all these seats should put downward pressure on fares and provide an...
It'd be nice to see the list of the 18 routes that these are on. I'd bet that for a significant portion of them, the presence of these -900's is a net benefit. ECP, for example, doesn't typically get jets this size (especially this time of year). They're almost exclusively a 717 or RJ place. It's also a high fare airport. Delta dumping all these seats should put downward pressure on fares and provide an overall upgraded experience vs what a place like ECP is used to in the off season.
They did the same with the MD90's and 717's without issues, folks tend to get spoiled too easily, it's a seat to a destination, deal with it.
Spoiling is bound to happen when Delta is ranked better than United
The number of seats in first class is irrelevant. It’s the product that’s more important. Domestic US first class isn’t worthy of the name anyway, unless you’re on a wide bodied jet.
I wonder what first class will look like, since best my knowledge, Lion Air does not have a dedicated premium cabin.
These particular jets came from Lion’s Batik and Malindo air subsidiaries, which do have a dedicated premium cabin.