Currently we’re seeing labor groups at most major airlines negotiating new contracts. At American Airlines, pilots recently ratified a new contract, which is worth an incremental $10 billion in value over the course of four years.
Now flight attendants are putting pressure on management for a new contract. Flight attendants have already had a strike authorization vote, with 99.47% of participating members voting in favor of authorizing a strike. That sends a pretty clear message to management.
There’s an interesting update when it comes to the state of negotiations between the union and management.
In this post:
American management matches Delta flight attendant pay
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) has shared an update on the state of bargaining. American management has essentially offered to match Delta’s flight attendant pay, and many other aspects of Delta’s contract:
- Flight attendants would get an immediate 11% pay increase, matching Delta’s current pay rates
- Flight attendants would get annual 2% pay increases for the remaining years of the five year contract
- Flight attendants would start earning boarding pay at half of the hourly rate for each boarding period
- Flight attendants would get increased profit sharing (10% of the first $2.5 billion in pre-tax profits, and 20% above that amount)
- 401(k) contributions would increase from 3% to 5%, and 401(k) matches would increase from 2.5% to 4%
- Training and required travel day pay would increase from $75 to $150 per day
Keep in mind that Delta flight attendants aren’t unionized, though historically the company has still had among the best pay for flight attendants. So it’s not surprising to see American offering to match many aspects of Delta’s contract, because anything less than that would be a total non-starter.
Union and management are still far apart
While this proposed contract is an improvement, it’s nowhere close to what the union has demanded:
- The union wants immediate 35% pay increases, with annual pay increases of 6% in subsequent years (the below chart shows what the union is demanding vs. what management is offering)
- The union wants the contract be amendable after three years, while management wants the contract to be amendable after five years
- The union wants a signing bonus and retroactive pay, while management isn’t interested in offering that
- The union wants increased minimum hours when on reserve, while management has rejected that
- The union wants more pay for international flights, premium cabins, and night flying, though management isn’t open to that
Here’s how the union describes management’s proposal:
We view this as a starting proposal. We have much more bargaining to do before reaching an agreement. While the company moved in certain areas, many important issues remain unaddressed, and we are far apart on wages.
You can’t blame flight attendants for trying to negotiate as much pay as possible. Flight attendants don’t have easy jobs (could you imagine dealing with the flying public?), and they aren’t paid very well. Yet oddly there’s a never-ending pipeline of people who want to become flight attendants, and airlines love to promote how they’re more selective than Ivy League schools in terms of their acceptance rate.
On the one hand, flight attendants don’t have as much leverage as pilots, in the sense that there’s a pilot shortage, and it takes a really long time to train new pilots. On the other hand, unions do give flight attendants quite a bit of collective bargaining power, due to them being able to strike.
Bottom line
American Airlines flight attendants are currently negotiating a new contract, as they haven’t had a new one in years. Flight attendants have already voted to authorize a strike, though we’re still a ways off from that potentially happening.
We now know what kind of a proposal management has made. The company is offering an immediate 11% pay increase, 2% annual pay increases after that, and boarding pay. The union views this as a starting proposal, but a long way from what flight attendants will settle for. The union is requesting immediate 35% pay increases, 6% annual pay increases after that, and more.
I’m curious to see how this unfolds…
What do you make of these negotiations at American Airlines?
I am shocked that flight attendants don't get paid for boarding/ delays etc. They have to do mandated DOT safety checks and in today's world, god knows, we all want those done properly. Having a flight attendant not get paid the minute they step on that plane to do security checks, safety equipment checks, catering checks, is akin to madness. Illustrates that safety is second on the totem pole, it's all about the money.
Typo in previous comment: its rediculous flt attempts aren’t paid for boarding/deplaning.
It’s rediculous to think flt attendants are paid for boarding/de planing, at a minimum this is an osha concern.
It’s also rediculous AA isn’t offering back pay, and have slow played negotiations since prior to 2019
They offered 11% to match delta… while inflation since their contract expired in 2019 is at 19.6% they should get FULL pay at the time of boarding since it seems that’s when a lot of their duties is being done. Company wants 5 yr contract but in 5yrs with their proposal flight attendants will be far behind in pay and benefits! I say pay them everything they want seems fair and move on so theirs no strike during holidays
The flight attendants absolutely deserve that plus more in my opinion. AA used to always lead the industry in everything prior to the merger. AA flew more than any airline so why shouldn't they push for more than all! The crap that all F/A's have to deal with is insane so most of you need to quit complaining of AA's F/A's with attitude. If F/A's get more than perfect just helps other unions push for...
The flight attendants absolutely deserve that plus more in my opinion. AA used to always lead the industry in everything prior to the merger. AA flew more than any airline so why shouldn't they push for more than all! The crap that all F/A's have to deal with is insane so most of you need to quit complaining of AA's F/A's with attitude. If F/A's get more than perfect just helps other unions push for more as well in everything else. When one wins we all win. GO APFA and AFA!
Matching delta is not really matching delta because of union dues.
I avoid AA because of the FAs. The FAs are the face of the airline. They are the individuals that I have the most contact with. Based on my experiences with FAs, I try to fly Delta, then UA or B6, then last and least AA. AA has a relationship with Hyatt. We love staying at Hyatt properties. AA FAs could learn a lot about customer service from Hyatt.
If AA FAs want more...
I avoid AA because of the FAs. The FAs are the face of the airline. They are the individuals that I have the most contact with. Based on my experiences with FAs, I try to fly Delta, then UA or B6, then last and least AA. AA has a relationship with Hyatt. We love staying at Hyatt properties. AA FAs could learn a lot about customer service from Hyatt.
If AA FAs want more money, find a way to attach it to customer satisfaction. If the union thinks their AAs are that good, they should have no problem with it.
except that is not the way unions work. They focus on numbers of employees because that is what elevates the amount of dues revenue. Performance is the last thing that unions care about. AA, sadly, is limited in its customer service by the mentality that its unions create.
WN has done the best job of managing employee relations in a highly unionized environment but they did that by paying their employees well. As WN...
except that is not the way unions work. They focus on numbers of employees because that is what elevates the amount of dues revenue. Performance is the last thing that unions care about. AA, sadly, is limited in its customer service by the mentality that its unions create.
WN has done the best job of managing employee relations in a highly unionized environment but they did that by paying their employees well. As WN struggles financially now including in getting revenue back post-covid and after their operational meltdown, their employees are paid less and less relative to their peers and dissatisfaction grows.
DL simply has a huge competitive advantage being largely non-union and AA simply had no choice but to match what DL offered to avoid an even larger service meltdown.
@Ben you forgot to add that AA yesterday lowered its forecast on EPS all down to higher labour and fuel costs. Shares went down. I think it’s only a matter of time that airlines start making heavy losses due to higher labour costs. Not surprising anyway. Especially for AA.
Maybe they won't be as grouchy and rude anymore. I say give them a "covid bonus" and that they should take this offer from management while they still can. They are not in the same position as the pilots AT ALL. FA pay WILL go down is they get boarding/departure pay.
Let's not forget that the inflight hours pay level is supposed to cover the pre and post boarding normal times. So that hourly rate is already inflated.
If the highest paid flight attendant salary RECENTLY negotiated is being offered by AA then the union should not try the leap-frog approach and should recommend acceptance unless there are mitigating factors that suggest other things are a problem.
Remember - this all comes out of...
Let's not forget that the inflight hours pay level is supposed to cover the pre and post boarding normal times. So that hourly rate is already inflated.
If the highest paid flight attendant salary RECENTLY negotiated is being offered by AA then the union should not try the leap-frog approach and should recommend acceptance unless there are mitigating factors that suggest other things are a problem.
Remember - this all comes out of our pockets no matter what. Has your salary increased 22% over the last year? I'm retired and the last raise was $50 a month.
Maybe then the flight attendants will actually be useful during boarding instead of saying “we aren’t paid now”
You hand your paycheck back to your boss?
As an ex AA flight attendant of over 4 decades, it comes down to how the company treats and views their work group, We would have never even received profit sharing if DELTA didn’t do it first. Notice how everything “ matches “ Delta. AA never does anything first. The company had gone downhill so much that they no longer even do a service between DFW and IAH/SAT/AUS. I can’t imagine Southwest doing this out...
As an ex AA flight attendant of over 4 decades, it comes down to how the company treats and views their work group, We would have never even received profit sharing if DELTA didn’t do it first. Notice how everything “ matches “ Delta. AA never does anything first. The company had gone downhill so much that they no longer even do a service between DFW and IAH/SAT/AUS. I can’t imagine Southwest doing this out of DAL. It is my firm belief that US ruined AA. They were the left overs and have succeeded in dragging AA down with them. Poor management.
It started with America West.
There's always 2 sides to every story as far as the USAir / American merger has all panned out. I'm original USAir, and was proud of who I represented and worked for.
Time for AA to bring in the services of Frank Lorenzo! He'll make sure the union agrees to this! Going to be a rough winter if you work at AA! God luck!
Ultimately higher labor costs and rising fuel prices (thanks to lack of domestic production) will force higher fares. At the same time people have maxed out credit cards and feeling the impact of inflation. So that means future capacity cuts and layoffs.
Don't forget the major factor behind higher fares, which is greedy CEOs and top board members getting bonuses and the highest pay rises yearly in each top organisation yearly.
They should be paid from the time they're required to sign-in at the departure station until they leave the aircraft at the arrival station. Pay them a fair hourly rate, & pay them for the time they're required to spend at the airport on duty, in company uniform, and not just from when the aircraft doors close until they open again.
I agree and I think boarding pay is a step in the right direction. I think people tend to forget flight attendans and pilots are required to be at the airport and sign in for their flight long before that flight ever leaves or passengers even board and they are not being paid for that time. Most airlines don't start paying flight attendants until the plane pushes the exception is Delta.
However if airlines...
I agree and I think boarding pay is a step in the right direction. I think people tend to forget flight attendans and pilots are required to be at the airport and sign in for their flight long before that flight ever leaves or passengers even board and they are not being paid for that time. Most airlines don't start paying flight attendants until the plane pushes the exception is Delta.
However if airlines agree to better pay as a passenger I want better service from their flight attendants. American has some of the worst flight attendants in the US but they are protected by the union. If the union gets anywhere close to $92 dollars an hour then it should be easier for AA to investigate and get rid of horrible flight attendants.
pilots did not gain and didn't ask for "pre-flight" pay.
The justification has long been that the hourly flight pay for crew members offset their ground time.
But Delta changed the paradigm by increasing flight pay AND adding boarding pay.
lmao fair. they want $40 for no experience for a job that damn near anyone can get. Then after 12 years they want $92 an hour. No offense but UPS is a much much harder job that pays far less. Way too much supply job wise.
Offer is very fair!
How many hours do you think a full time schedule is per month?
I've never worked at UPS or as a flight attendant but you are looking at this all wrong. Flight attendants don't work 40 hours a week. I believe in their contract they are guaranteed somewhere between 70-80 flight hours per month and except for Delta FA's they are not being paid prior to aircraft pushing off the gate.
For a new hire FA making $33 per flight hour that if they get 80 flight...
I've never worked at UPS or as a flight attendant but you are looking at this all wrong. Flight attendants don't work 40 hours a week. I believe in their contract they are guaranteed somewhere between 70-80 flight hours per month and except for Delta FA's they are not being paid prior to aircraft pushing off the gate.
For a new hire FA making $33 per flight hour that if they get 80 flight hour in the month they've only made $2,640 dollars for the month before taxes. After 12 years if AA was to concede and give them $92 per flight hour at 80 hours that would be $7,360 per month before taxes. If AA were to give in to unions demands for $92 dollars a 12+ FA is looking at a yearly salary of around $88,320 dollars pre tax and if you throw in their per diem they probably would be close t $90,000 dollars on the year pre tax. That is only if they get 80 hour every month.
Aren't UPS truck drivers who have topped out with their new contract being paid $170,000 dollars per year and if you take out the benefits the dollar amount they are making is around $110,000 dollars per year base pay that doesn't include any overtime which by the way I don't think FA's at any US carrier get paid over time at all. Clearly UPS drivers are making more money than FA's.
Agreed. Once you start work related duties you should be paid in full.
Delta, once again, sets the standard for employee compensation.
It is up to every other airline to figure out how to pay the tab Delta hands them or deal w/ the labor problems that result even though none of them generate the revenue Delta does.
and the ball is particularly in UA and WN's court knowing that both have no choice but to match just as ended up happening with pilot compensation even though none...
Delta, once again, sets the standard for employee compensation.
It is up to every other airline to figure out how to pay the tab Delta hands them or deal w/ the labor problems that result even though none of them generate the revenue Delta does.
and the ball is particularly in UA and WN's court knowing that both have no choice but to match just as ended up happening with pilot compensation even though none generate the profits and thus will pay as much profit sharing even though they copy Delta's profit sharing formula.
Delta just validated that unions do nothing that Delta can't or won't give its own employees.
Tim,
Delta waited years to give their Flight Attendants a raise (2022?), when they did, it was far below inflation, and they also cut their wages during covid by a 1/3 despite getting a federal bailout to prevent that exact scenario. But Delta spent that taxpayer money on Korean air, Virgin, and LATAM instead of their own people. If memory serves, Delta invested in all three airlines before their Flight Attendants received their first...
Tim,
Delta waited years to give their Flight Attendants a raise (2022?), when they did, it was far below inflation, and they also cut their wages during covid by a 1/3 despite getting a federal bailout to prevent that exact scenario. But Delta spent that taxpayer money on Korean air, Virgin, and LATAM instead of their own people. If memory serves, Delta invested in all three airlines before their Flight Attendants received their first post-covid raise.
Loopholes in the law are fun, but not cute when large profitable companies exploit them at the expense of the taxpayer.
Delta is hardly leading the way when it comes to FA wages. They set the lowest bar possible during covid and after and hoped other unions wouldn't succeed and call out their failure. Delta's FA's just simply have no way to show their unhappiness.
Everyone knows you have no objectivity, but do better.
just let us know IF unions do better.
no union FAs got raises during the pandemic and they did not make anywhere near as much as they did before or since.
You simply cannot admit that Delta set the bar that other airlines will not exceed - and in the process will do more to deflate the union movement than anything that has ever been done in the industry - other than DL employees...
just let us know IF unions do better.
no union FAs got raises during the pandemic and they did not make anywhere near as much as they did before or since.
You simply cannot admit that Delta set the bar that other airlines will not exceed - and in the process will do more to deflate the union movement than anything that has ever been done in the industry - other than DL employees themselves voting to convert tens of thousands of union positions to non-union positions after the NW merger.
Not trying to get you riled up but out of American, United and Delta wasn't Delta the only airline to not furlough flight attendants? Didn't every single Delta FA keep their job while thousands of American and United FA's were sent to the streets and their only recourse to take care of their families and pay their bills was to file unemployment. You say that money went towards Korean Air, Virgin and LATAM and not...
Not trying to get you riled up but out of American, United and Delta wasn't Delta the only airline to not furlough flight attendants? Didn't every single Delta FA keep their job while thousands of American and United FA's were sent to the streets and their only recourse to take care of their families and pay their bills was to file unemployment. You say that money went towards Korean Air, Virgin and LATAM and not flight attendants? My next question is where did union airlines like American and United's money go to seeing that they furloughed thousands and thousands of employees? Seems like the union was powerless to keep their entire membership on the job and no one knows what American and United did with all that money.
I'm neither against the union or pro union all I'm saying is airlines like American United and Delta all received billions of dollars in tax payer money and it doesn't appear as though the unionized airlines did any better than the non unionized Delta Airlines in fact quite the opposite at least Delta kept their FA's on the job.
The last point I'm going to make is this if Delta FA's are so unhappy they do have a recourse and a way to show their unhappiness they could simply vote in the AFA. All they need is 50% plus 1 and boom the AFA comes in to represent Delta FA's. Perhaps Delta's FA's are not as unhappy as you're trying to make them appear in your post because every single time the AFA has made a push to unionize at Delta it has failed that isn't on Delta Airlines that is a personal decision being made by every single Delta FA to vote in favor or against a union.
thank you, Love to Fly.
In fact a 20 year Delta FA has voted in more union elections than just about any other worker in the US and DL consistently remains a non-union FA shop.
It simply is not and never was better elsewhere or with a union at DL and DL FAs know it
Hey lover
Not riled up. Aa did furlough their FAs for about a month, then unfurloughed them and the FAs were given full back pay from the short time they were furloughed. Furloughs aren’t fun, but the reality is the aa flight attendants received a month paid vacation.
American used the federal bailout money as it was intended. No aa flight attendant was ever financially hurt even by the short furlough. Aa gave...
Hey lover
Not riled up. Aa did furlough their FAs for about a month, then unfurloughed them and the FAs were given full back pay from the short time they were furloughed. Furloughs aren’t fun, but the reality is the aa flight attendants received a month paid vacation.
American used the federal bailout money as it was intended. No aa flight attendant was ever financially hurt even by the short furlough. Aa gave them the federal money when the second bailout was backdated to American’s furlough date, as the government intended.
Contrast that with delta who cut their flight attendants’ pay for about 6 months by a third even though the federal government gave delta the money specifically for employee pay.
I don’t really care whether a group is union or not, but it’s a bit ridiculous to hold up delta as an example of employee relations in this instance.
American Airlines furlough over 13,000 employees the moment tax payers were no longer paying their bills, of which nearly 5,000 were flight attendants. That took place in early October of 2020 those employees didn't come back to work until mid January of 2021 that is much longer than one month when another tax payer bail out was approved and checks were sent out to airlines. Delta restored all their employees pay when that second bailout...
American Airlines furlough over 13,000 employees the moment tax payers were no longer paying their bills, of which nearly 5,000 were flight attendants. That took place in early October of 2020 those employees didn't come back to work until mid January of 2021 that is much longer than one month when another tax payer bail out was approved and checks were sent out to airlines. Delta restored all their employees pay when that second bailout was approved in January 2021. How is it that a nonunion airline was able to avoid any layoffs with an airline that is overwhelming union furloughed over 13,000 of their employees many of which were union?
And you say AA did the right thing with the money, I can't help but laugh at that statement. If they would have done the right thing with that money why did so many union employees loose their jobs from October though mid January? I imagine your attempt to put lipstick on this pig is the same hurdle the AFA is trying to clear when trying to convince Delta FA's that it is in their best interest to unionize.
Lover,
On a small note, I don’t care if delta flight attendants unionize or not. Southwest FAs are some of the happiest in the industry and they’re a union. AA and UA FAs, rightly or wrongly, are often not considered as pleasant as southwest or delta FAs and they are unionized.
But… it’s not quite as simple as “why don’t they just unionize”. Delta engages in pretty direct union busting activities even having...
Lover,
On a small note, I don’t care if delta flight attendants unionize or not. Southwest FAs are some of the happiest in the industry and they’re a union. AA and UA FAs, rightly or wrongly, are often not considered as pleasant as southwest or delta FAs and they are unionized.
But… it’s not quite as simple as “why don’t they just unionize”. Delta engages in pretty direct union busting activities even having a senior executive whose job is largely preventing unionization. Delta makes it very difficult to allow even a vote on the issue.
I’m hardly an AFA proponent but delta’s effort to counter even a vote on unionization is pretty well known.
I agree both Delta and Southwest flight attendants are some of the friendliest in the US while AA and UA are the worst. But what are you talking about all the AFA needs to get a vote is 50% plus 1 to sign a union authorization card once they get hit that threshold there is nothing Delta can do. I was on a Delta flight a few days ago and overheard some FA's talking in...
I agree both Delta and Southwest flight attendants are some of the friendliest in the US while AA and UA are the worst. But what are you talking about all the AFA needs to get a vote is 50% plus 1 to sign a union authorization card once they get hit that threshold there is nothing Delta can do. I was on a Delta flight a few days ago and overheard some FA's talking in the galley about the AFA sending them text messages and calling their personal phones to encourage them to go online read the information and sign the card. They were wondering where or how did the AFA get their personal phone numbers from.
Delta isn't blocking a union vote the don't have the power to do so. If the AFA can't get the signatures required to which again is 50% plus 1 to unionized how is Delta blocking that? It just seems like people would rather blame Delta for the AFA's failures instead of accepting the fact that 50% of Delta's FA's do not see a reason or a benefit to unionization at this time.
I sympathize with the flight attendants in wanting the best wages possible and the Union definitely needs to fight to get better pay/benefits than non-unionized Delta (because if not what's the point of the union?) But an immediate 33% raise is extremely large IMHO... on the other hand the 2% per year after the 11% immediate jump this year would also be a no go for me if I was part of this Union... 11%...
I sympathize with the flight attendants in wanting the best wages possible and the Union definitely needs to fight to get better pay/benefits than non-unionized Delta (because if not what's the point of the union?) But an immediate 33% raise is extremely large IMHO... on the other hand the 2% per year after the 11% immediate jump this year would also be a no go for me if I was part of this Union... 11% immediate and 6% yearly for the next 3 sounds like a pretty good compromise if you ask me... ... what do you think the chances are this actually ends up in a strike?
Zero chance of a strike thanks to The Railway Labor Act. Voting to strike is almost meaningless as there are a lot of steps any unionized airline employee group has to go through before they are legally allowed to strike.
What’s not being considered is there has been no wage increase since Jan 2019, so spreading that 35% across 5 years, it’s actually not a big ask. The 11% proposal doesn’t even keep pace with inflation, which has been over 20% in the same period.
Do flight attendants typically have 401(k) contribution amounts chosen by the company? Not matches but contributions
If I had a dollar for every @timdunn "Delta", I would be a wealthy man.
you do realize "Delta" is in the paragraph header describing the changes?
It was a given that AA would have to give its FAs what DL gave its FAs.
AA just isn't willing to give any more and probably less considering that DL's profitability - used to calculate profit sharing - is always higher than every other airline.
And, of course, DL FAs don't pay union dues.
I believe the contribution amount refers to money that the company will contribute automatically whether or not the FA contributes anything. The match would be in addition to the automatic contribution.
Oh wow, that's pretty cool. Good for them if this is a thing industry-wide
Depends on the airline--AA only does a match up to 5.5% which is relatively uncompetitive. United has the highest automatic employer contribution with 5% automatic and match up to 3%, while Delta has the highest overall contribution with 3% automatic and up to 6% match.
I was on the DFW Delta Business Advisory panel; the DL execs came in laughing, they'd just visited with a Retired DL ... he was conducting Seminars for AA, "How to be more like Delta!"
Obviously his suggestions weren't used.