American Airlines is trying to improve at the moment, given nearly a decade of neglect by the company’s management team. While things are moving in the right direction, the issue is that it’s hard to catch up when competitors are also improving, and you’re so far behind. That’s especially true in the airline industry, where many initiatives take years to roll out.
Along those lines, American has just made a very positive announcement, which seems like the obvious choice. I wrote about how this was rumored last week (initially leaked by JonNYC, of course), and it’s now official!
American will expand Starlink Wi-Fi to all mainline aircraft
Over the summer, American announced plans to introduce Starlink Wi-Fi starting in 2027. The catch is that American initially only announced plans to introduce the service on all Airbus A320-family aircraft. This includes more than 500 planes, comprised of A319s, A320s, A321s, A321neos, and A321XLRs.
Fortunately American has now come to its senses, and has announced that it plans to introduce Starlink on all mainline aircraft. So this means the entire fleet of Boeing 737s, 777s, and 787s, are also getting Starlink. In total, more than 1,000 mainline planes will be getting the service.
Installation is still expected to start as of early 2027, though we don’t know with what timeline this will wrap up. Unfortunately there still aren’t plans to introduce Starlink on regional jets, unlike what we’re seeing at United, where the airline plans to have Starlink on all mainline and regional jets by the end of 2027.
It goes without saying this is a major boost to the passenger experience, because the quality difference with Starlink is huge.
Here’s how American’s Chief Customer Officer, Heather Garboden, describes this development:
“Our customers have told us that dependable connectivity can make a meaningful difference in how they spend their time in the air. Whether they are livestreaming a favorite show, gaming, collaborating in real time on an important work deal, scrolling social media or online shopping, Starlink will give our customers countless options to make the most of their time while traveling. Just as importantly, it provides the foundation for future innovations that will further enhance the customer experience.”
This is finally an easy win for American against Delta
As I said above, part of American’s issue is that no matter how many positive announcements it makes, it’s really only catching up with Delta and United, and for many changes we’re talking about a horizon of many years.
So while it’s great to improve tech, lounges, cabins, etc., that only gets you so far when competitors are doing the same, and are several steps ahead. United certainly isn’t letting American gain any ground.
However, American announcing a comprehensive Starlink plan (and hopefully rolling it out aggressively) is probably be the single best thing that the airline can do to increasingly compete with Delta, at least from a passenger experience standpoint. Delta has made the silly decision to not introduce Starlink, as it instead plans to partner with Amazon Leo.
The issue is that Amazon Leo is only launching as of 2028 (best case scenario), and Delta has also only committed to installing it on part of its fleet. Delta CEO Ed Bastian has been getting some bad press over his alleged comments about Elon Musk.
Delta has really self-owned by not committing to Starlink. I’m happy to see American taking the easy win here, putting Delta in third place among the “big three” when it comes to connectivity.
Bottom line
American Airlines has announced plans to install Starlink Wi-Fi on all aircraft, rather than just on roughly 500 Airbus A320-family aircraft. So we’ll now also see Starlink on all Boeing planes, including narrow body and wide body aircraft.
As American tries to become more competitive, introducing legitimately high speed Wi-Fi from Starlink across the fleet is the obvious move. Unlike many other changes at American, this will actually lead to a competitive advantage, given how Delta is falling behind with Wi-Fi.
What do you make of American introducing Starlink throughout the mainline fleet?
Happy to see it happen if true. Would be a pain to try to find bookings on Airbus flights just to get access to Starlink. Hope it'll be a fast install.
I really struggle to understand your disdain for Delta’s decision to not opt for Starlink. Do you really think, consumers will switch their airlines simply because the wifi onboard is slow or not as fast as competitors? Even when the quality of service is on par, people will be like, nah I am going to book United/AA because they have faster wifi?
I am certain Delta’s reason to not work with Starlink are selfish, but...
I really struggle to understand your disdain for Delta’s decision to not opt for Starlink. Do you really think, consumers will switch their airlines simply because the wifi onboard is slow or not as fast as competitors? Even when the quality of service is on par, people will be like, nah I am going to book United/AA because they have faster wifi?
I am certain Delta’s reason to not work with Starlink are selfish, but I am happy that (for whatever reason) at least 1 airline isn’t going to give business to a narcissist, xenophobic, racist, egomaniac piece of shit dirtbag.
no you wont book for faster WIFI but its a consideration :) and trust me once you have had starlink on another airline you will understand its a BIG DEAL. :)
For what it's worth, I fly for work and travel during work hours at high frequency, and Starlink is an incredible benefit for me. I already choose United because of better schedules than American out of Chicago, but if I were on the fence or it were close at all, Starlink would absolutely push me over the edge. Starlink is essentially a guarantee that I can actually work on the flight, whereas every legacy provider...
For what it's worth, I fly for work and travel during work hours at high frequency, and Starlink is an incredible benefit for me. I already choose United because of better schedules than American out of Chicago, but if I were on the fence or it were close at all, Starlink would absolutely push me over the edge. Starlink is essentially a guarantee that I can actually work on the flight, whereas every legacy provider comes with the risk that half a day will be blown, which is really damaging.
I do not like Elon at all. In particular, I think he led to the deaths of an unthinkable number of people by killing USAID, all while eroding American soft power. But, Starlink is an excellent product and a game-changer for me.
Assuming most people hate him for his politics. Boohoo, Elon is a genius, a trillionaire, and we are not.
That said, to OPs point, one data point on my end, I absolutely have chosen 3 recent flights on AF solely for Starlink. As I’m now a status “free agent” like many others booking long haul J, I can do more daytime hour work on long hauls on Air France than say, Iberia. Pretty sure I’m not a one off.
@Maria I'm curious - Let's say you need to book a flight and business class with Airline X (with starlink) is pricing at $7,000, but business class with Airline Y (without starlink - but a decent enough wifi) is pricing at $4,000; which are you going with?
You must be new here. OMAAT always posts anti-Delta headlines to generate comments.
Agreed, if anything it makes me want to fly delta more.
You can hate the guy… but you can’t denied what he has accomplished. Many successful CEOs are assholes, just Elon is the most outspoken. Does that divide his public opinion yes, I’d say it also doesn’t help him in anyway, but if you govern your life decisions based on emotions then you’ll fail in life.
Look, people will absolutely choose planes with starlink vs not. Will it f up delta? Probably not. So if you...
You can hate the guy… but you can’t denied what he has accomplished. Many successful CEOs are assholes, just Elon is the most outspoken. Does that divide his public opinion yes, I’d say it also doesn’t help him in anyway, but if you govern your life decisions based on emotions then you’ll fail in life.
Look, people will absolutely choose planes with starlink vs not. Will it f up delta? Probably not. So if you prefer delta, fly delta, nothing wrong with that. But understand why other folks will switch. It’s just objectively a better online experience. Period.
@Davisson, you are clearly understating if you call that douchebag "outspoken" and "dividing opinions". By all objective unbiased measures, he is racist, xenophobic, narcissist, egomaniac and a ton more of similiar "adjectives". This is not about being emotional. It is about what is right and what is wrong, what is moral and what is immoral. Who says one can't be successful by being emotional? Clearly, our definition of success is different.
Another point we disagree...
@Davisson, you are clearly understating if you call that douchebag "outspoken" and "dividing opinions". By all objective unbiased measures, he is racist, xenophobic, narcissist, egomaniac and a ton more of similiar "adjectives". This is not about being emotional. It is about what is right and what is wrong, what is moral and what is immoral. Who says one can't be successful by being emotional? Clearly, our definition of success is different.
Another point we disagree on, is people choosing starlink vs not. I am not against anyone making their decision based on wifi. I just don't think wifi speed drives people's decision making when it comes to which airlines they will fly.
@ Ole -- I totally agree with everything you say about Musk, of course, and I hate how he currently has a monopoly on high speed Wi-Fi. We're on the same page.
Am I suggesting that people will switch exclusively because one airline has faster Wi-Fi? Well, no, probably not. The point is that customers choose an airline based on the combination of a wide variety of factors. Like, people don't fly United just because...
@ Ole -- I totally agree with everything you say about Musk, of course, and I hate how he currently has a monopoly on high speed Wi-Fi. We're on the same page.
Am I suggesting that people will switch exclusively because one airline has faster Wi-Fi? Well, no, probably not. The point is that customers choose an airline based on the combination of a wide variety of factors. Like, people don't fly United just because they have Starlink, or just because they have Polaris Lounges, or just because they have cold brew, or just because they have a great app. But the idea is that the more competitive advantages you have, the more likely you are to win customers who are seeking a combination of price, value, and experience.
That's the whole argument in favor of airlines becoming more "premium," and not just getting passengers who are seeking the lowest fare.
I'd go one step further - people spend money on Delta cars because Amex has a premium aura, Delta has a premium aura, and "premium people" want to be premium and don't really care about being value hunters. How could they - they're earning skymiles.
So if AA and UA suddenly look "more premium" it helps with credit card acquisition which helps them get more money from Chase and Citi which helps their bottom...
I'd go one step further - people spend money on Delta cars because Amex has a premium aura, Delta has a premium aura, and "premium people" want to be premium and don't really care about being value hunters. How could they - they're earning skymiles.
So if AA and UA suddenly look "more premium" it helps with credit card acquisition which helps them get more money from Chase and Citi which helps their bottom line.
It's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle. It's the antithesis of what that Spirit guy was saying the other day - their problem wasn't the existence of frequent flyer mile programs that could be used as collateral for loans, their problem was that their customer base was not premium and didn't acquire or spend a lot of money on Spirit credit cards.
@Ben, I agree with the overall product being competitive and provide best possible experience/service. I also agree with you about having as many competitive advantages as one can get, but my point is I don't think faster wifi is one of those deciding factor. I think, it is one of those features that customers will appreciate when they use it, but will not drive their decision making next time they are looking at flying.
It’s just funny everybody clowning Delta for not choosing starlink, but then also want competition on airfare, hotel fares, everything but wants all the airlines to just join musks monopoly
It will be a non-topic soon enough and most airlines will regret choosing Starlink. Elon is very unstable.
Yah airlines needs to get starlink installed. It’s a step up function in terms of productivity on the plane. I’m all for competition… I hope this forces blue origin to step it up quickly.
Am I the only one who could give a rats ass about wifi on airplanes?
Hardly.
I will avoid any airline that uses Starlink and if I must fly that airline, I will refuse to connect any device to Starlink
Why are you supporting this?
Next time stomp your feet when you say that.
ideally you'd want to connect something with a direct tunnel to a trusted ground network (or VPN - i've heard a few reports that VPNs don't work on starlink but that seems like it would be complicated to actually enforce technologically, and i have yet to test it)
I'd say you people are beyond laughable but don't want to offed the beyond laughable crowd.
As a frequent Delta flyer, I actually do hope Delta loses business over the decision not to install Starlink. For a long time, I think Delta has been resting on its reputation, and it’s good for Delta flyers (and obviously flyers of other airlines) to see United and AA making clear improvements. Passengers will come out ahead when there is more and better competition.
On the other hand, I can’t help but feel Ben is...
As a frequent Delta flyer, I actually do hope Delta loses business over the decision not to install Starlink. For a long time, I think Delta has been resting on its reputation, and it’s good for Delta flyers (and obviously flyers of other airlines) to see United and AA making clear improvements. Passengers will come out ahead when there is more and better competition.
On the other hand, I can’t help but feel Ben is getting perhaps a bit too much enjoyment out of trashing Delta over this decision. Delta led United and American for a significant period of time by having free WiFi when United and AA were charging for it — and I don’t seem to recall nearly as much criticism of those airlines back then for lagging Delta (or extensive praise for Delta for offering it).
People boycotting airlines or Starlink over Musk are beyond infantile. Do you boycott all Chinese products due to their human rights violations, or are you only selective when it’s easy? Your boycotts don’t work because nobody cares. I’ll be getting work done using Starlink while you have crappy wi-fi. But hey, you showed Musk, didn’t you?! lol.
And they aren't boycotting Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, etc either. They all have their own bad issues too.
Anyone who decides to fly an airline based on whether the carrier utilizes Starlink, or any other internet provider, is not to be taken seriously. This is no different than choosing an airline based upon whether they serve Coke or Pepsi.
My standard for airline loyalty (or even picking which one to fly) is based SOLELY on Price, Performance, Service and Schedule!
Not solely, but it can move the needle. I can tell you that after experiencing UA's free Starlink WiFi, it's now a differentiator in UA's favor when I need a tie breaker. And it's got me telling everyone how great it is.
A year of Starlink will not produce a significant shift in passengers from Delta to American.
Ha! I am now only interested in an airline that will ban Starlink ease to connect vocally on a flight. Does this mean a Delta flight will be quieter than an American flight?
Probably true. But as an Alaska elite, I actively avoid flying on AA because it doesn't measure up to AS.
The changes at AA will improve the airline for the better.
Agree. It won't. AA's raft of problems will not overcome it's systemic issues.
Hope Delta enjoys the WiFi cuck chair the next couple years!
I fly Delta. I would definitely switch for a carrier with better WiFi.
OH FFS. Say it ain't so.
I have been following this discussion with bemusement. Probably much older than most bloggers here. In "my day" (1980's and 90's) we had no wifi, nor the must haves that you all crave, like doors, surly flight attendants, and crappy food. And if you can believe it, no cell phones, until the 90's.
My boss would just remind me to check-in when I reached my destination( but not if he was sleeping).
Somehow we were...
I have been following this discussion with bemusement. Probably much older than most bloggers here. In "my day" (1980's and 90's) we had no wifi, nor the must haves that you all crave, like doors, surly flight attendants, and crappy food. And if you can believe it, no cell phones, until the 90's.
My boss would just remind me to check-in when I reached my destination( but not if he was sleeping).
Somehow we were happy campers, earning our rewards without the stress of 24 hour a day connectivity. We somehow won major contracts, solved customers problems, and still flew worldwide for free with FF miles. And certainly needed no spreadsheets to track our 20 plus credit cards.
Yes, I will carry my laptop, but only to edit my photos in Photoshop, for my blog. If it is a night flight, dinner and sleep.
Why all this stress and anger?
I'm old myself, and I prefer things the way they used to be. To wit:
- Smoking sections. I want my freedom to light up returned.
- No women on board other than stewardesses. And they're stewardesses, not "flight attendants".
- No children on board unless grandma died and they need to get to the funeral quickly.
- Meals in Y. And we're talking real meals in all classes. Steak in...
I'm old myself, and I prefer things the way they used to be. To wit:
- Smoking sections. I want my freedom to light up returned.
- No women on board other than stewardesses. And they're stewardesses, not "flight attendants".
- No children on board unless grandma died and they need to get to the funeral quickly.
- Meals in Y. And we're talking real meals in all classes. Steak in Y, lobster in J or domestic F.
Now combine that with the modern developments of lounges and Starlink, and you have my perfect flight experience.
Amen, brother! My job in airline operations required that I be available 24/7. They gave me a pager for that. If it buzzed, never a good sign, I called in. We eventually got BlackBerrys in the early-mid 90’s and cell phones in the late 90’s. We didn’t get laptops until the very late 90’s and back then they weren’t all that useful other than for email. Now we’re tied to our phones and laptops. It was said the laptop will free us. It didn’t.
Other people have different experiences, interests, preferences, and responsibilities than you. I'm not sure a time where planes were filled with cigarette smoke was better than one with wi-fi.
There are plenty of others in your camp, but increasingly for traditional white collar workers, everything we do is in the cloud. So to be productive on a flight (work on email, word documents, powerpoints, excel, etc.), an internet connection becomes almost essential so that you can collaborate in real-time and not mess up version control / editing, etc. Even the new outlook doesn't really function well without an internet connection.
So while it's not...
There are plenty of others in your camp, but increasingly for traditional white collar workers, everything we do is in the cloud. So to be productive on a flight (work on email, word documents, powerpoints, excel, etc.), an internet connection becomes almost essential so that you can collaborate in real-time and not mess up version control / editing, etc. Even the new outlook doesn't really function well without an internet connection.
So while it's not necessary for some types of jobs and for leisure travel, it is more of an expectation and table stakes for many of us to do almost anything productive. And now you can add working with Claude or ChatGPT to that list.
Americans have no job security and (probably rightly) fear they’ll be fired for not responding to an email for 10 hours while over the Pacific.
I'm curious if the moves from some major airlines (United, American, etc.) to Starlink will actually improve Viasat's performance (in terms of bandwidth availability, etc.) in the short-term in a way that will help it for airlines like Delta while they wait for Leo.
Starlink still performs better than Viasat ever has for me but if it's 'good enough' for Delta customers until Leo rolls out, it may only impact marginal bookings rather than...
I'm curious if the moves from some major airlines (United, American, etc.) to Starlink will actually improve Viasat's performance (in terms of bandwidth availability, etc.) in the short-term in a way that will help it for airlines like Delta while they wait for Leo.
Starlink still performs better than Viasat ever has for me but if it's 'good enough' for Delta customers until Leo rolls out, it may only impact marginal bookings rather than cause a measurable customer loyalty shift.
Yes I remember the days of phones in seat although because of the cost few used them. Also, back then most people did not particularly want to have several rows of passengers listening into their phone call. Today people will discuss anything out loud with no humility.
Wifi is a nice to have but for me not critical. Most movies today are pathetic. I'd rather read a book or look out the window.
Ah the good old days.... 1990's. I made a call once on the GTE Airfone. My dad was amazed !
Why does everyone keep celebrating all these airlines' "free" Starlink?
It's free until Elon has another bad drug trip and decides to shut them down on mood or an hallucination telling him to do so, or to start charging the airlines some ungodly sum to use the "free" service once they're all locked in.
And before anyone says "the board won't let him do that!" his boards are no better than potted plants.
It -is- pretty astonishing, the amount of fiduciary breaches that all of Musk's companies allow him to get away with it. Can't recall anything else in the corporate world that even comes close.
Normal companies (or share holders in derivative) would depose/sue a CEO who splits his attention between so many unrelated interests.
The problem is that Delta has always associated itself with premium. Starlink is a premium household name. No one has ever heard of Viasat. So why they would pass up an opportunity to associate themselves with premium is beyond me - it's their whole schtick.
Is the goal of all these posts to somehow shame Delta into reversing course and installing Starlink? The frequency with which I'm reading that Delta is now the black sheep of the aviation world because they won't have Starlink is remarkable. You'd think they chose to fly planes without wings or something.
Is the secret formula to web traffic and engagement just the following:
1) insert airline that thinks/decides/announces a Starlink partnership is best for...
Is the goal of all these posts to somehow shame Delta into reversing course and installing Starlink? The frequency with which I'm reading that Delta is now the black sheep of the aviation world because they won't have Starlink is remarkable. You'd think they chose to fly planes without wings or something.
Is the secret formula to web traffic and engagement just the following:
1) insert airline that thinks/decides/announces a Starlink partnership is best for them
2) shakes fist at sky and yell at the clouds
3) how dare Delta not do the same
4) boom. engagement.
I can't wait for Air Burkina to announce they're installing Starlink on their two E190's tomorrow, and why that means Delta is failing the West African business community.
You hooked another one, Lucky.
Until the CEO says something that annoys Elon and it gets shut down. Ask Ukraine how trusting him worked out for them.
Charging my Noise Canceling headphones now for my flight next week. As if flying isn't annoying enough. Now we will be subjected to Zoom Teams FaceTime calls.
I had this guy leave me a voice mail at work so I called him at home and then he e-mailed me to my Blackberry and so I texted to his cell and then he e-mailed me to my home account and the whole thing just got out of control
Majority of folks don't choose a flight based on WiFi or its provider. I certainly don't, although I use it when available.
You can pick any one thing and say "well people don't choose a flight based on this one thing" and there's your excuse to make everything shitty.
With all the talk about wi-fi, lounges, food, wine, seat back screens, etc. does anyone care about getting from one place to another anymore? LOL
LOL, does make one wonder ....
I do not understand what the negativity around Leo is (besides that its rollout will not occur until 2028) - as far as I can see, there's been very little information released about it, yet I've seen multiple posts lambasting the service as "inferior" to Starlink. Even if the speed is 25% of the 100 mbps that Starlink seems to achieve, that (hypothetical) 25 mbps connection is going to be sufficient for 4K streaming on...
I do not understand what the negativity around Leo is (besides that its rollout will not occur until 2028) - as far as I can see, there's been very little information released about it, yet I've seen multiple posts lambasting the service as "inferior" to Starlink. Even if the speed is 25% of the 100 mbps that Starlink seems to achieve, that (hypothetical) 25 mbps connection is going to be sufficient for 4K streaming on Netflix. Just about any use case is covered under that speed and the difference is not going to be noticeable to the end consumer. I think it's probably for the best that different airlines are selecting different services and hopefully avoiding the creation of a monopoly in the in-flight wifi space.
first, all of this recent hooplah about is because DL made the decision to be one of the few US airlines that is not going to use Starlink. It doesn't matter how good of a product Starlink is, it doesn't make sense for an entire industry to be beholden to one supplier; that is just as true with having healthy competition between Airbus and Boeing and should be true about WiFi providers. Musk simply can't...
first, all of this recent hooplah about is because DL made the decision to be one of the few US airlines that is not going to use Starlink. It doesn't matter how good of a product Starlink is, it doesn't make sense for an entire industry to be beholden to one supplier; that is just as true with having healthy competition between Airbus and Boeing and should be true about WiFi providers. Musk simply can't stand that DL is willing to zig when everyone else zags.
second, DL has more aircraft serving more of the world with free high speed WiFi than any other airline in the world. They are turning on Viasat's new satellite on A350s aircraft by aircraft even as the 717s are getting Hughes WiFi at a rate of 3-4 aircraft per week. DL will very likely have all of its global network on all of its fleet complete by the end of the year. THIS YEAR.
third, not a soul has been able to quantify where faster WiFi exists as a purchase driver against all other purchase drivers. Not just whether WiFi exists but faster WiFi. No one doubts that LEO WiFi is faster than HEO but DL already has some aircraft w/ hybrid LEO/HEO WiFi in service and they will have hundreds more well before AA comes close to finishing its installations. The reason why DL will only equip about half of its fleet with Amazon LEO is because they will have better WiFi on the other half of their fleet than pure Viasat right now - and Viasat is improving its product.
All of this is just marketing about something in the future for one side that is not looking at the changes on the other side. Throw in Musk not being capable of being shunned and the reality in 18 months will be far less than the hype now.
DL reports earnings in 18 hours and will most certainly post the high water mark for earnings thanks to continued strong revenue which all of the industry is seeing but which DL has been better able to monetize than the rest of the industry. Add in the very substantial fuel cost advantage that DL has thanks to the refinery and DL has a massive financial advantage that will go far further than any product attribute.
Hi Tim, welcome back!
Tim, for the last time, Viasat can't improve their product, unless they launch a LEO constellation. You can't fight the laws of physics. The latency kills GEO internet. Stop trying to think somehow Delta's Viasat airframes will somehow be competitive - they simply won't. And Amazon is years away unless they can somehow summon launch capacity that isn't available at the moment. I'm saying this as respectfully as I can as someone who has a...
Tim, for the last time, Viasat can't improve their product, unless they launch a LEO constellation. You can't fight the laws of physics. The latency kills GEO internet. Stop trying to think somehow Delta's Viasat airframes will somehow be competitive - they simply won't. And Amazon is years away unless they can somehow summon launch capacity that isn't available at the moment. I'm saying this as respectfully as I can as someone who has a 40 year background in network engineering and aircraft systems experience.
you would do well to do some research and if you did you would find out that Viasat is creating partnerships to provide hybrid HEO/LEO service. DL is getting hybrid service from Hughes and other providers.
HEO is capable of providing high speed service; LEO will have an advantage in speed but you and others can't accept that ALL internet is improving and there is an acceptable level of service that will retain passengers....
you would do well to do some research and if you did you would find out that Viasat is creating partnerships to provide hybrid HEO/LEO service. DL is getting hybrid service from Hughes and other providers.
HEO is capable of providing high speed service; LEO will have an advantage in speed but you and others can't accept that ALL internet is improving and there is an acceptable level of service that will retain passengers. As much as you and others want to argue about all of the passengers that will defect from DL, there simply is no basis for believing that will happen in reality.
You act as if DL will live or die by what exists at Viasat right now and that simply is not reality.
Tim, I've never said that DL will live or die over this like some have. I'm just pointing out that DL's long term decision making on this isn't sound. They are betting on one horse that may never leave the stable, and another one that is about ready to be put out to pasture. I'm actually rooting for Amazon to succeed so that another viable competitor is in the market - especially as a large...
Tim, I've never said that DL will live or die over this like some have. I'm just pointing out that DL's long term decision making on this isn't sound. They are betting on one horse that may never leave the stable, and another one that is about ready to be put out to pasture. I'm actually rooting for Amazon to succeed so that another viable competitor is in the market - especially as a large scale business consumer of these products (terrestrial, not aircraft). GEO is dead. These multi orbit deals are dumb. They are Viasat's way of trying to remain relevant. And I'll tell you one last time. It's not about bandwidth, it's about latency, but you just won't listen. Now I understand why others here get frustrated with your positions on stuff that you don't have an understanding about.
@Tim,
Btw, Hughes declared bankruptcy in Aug. The GEO biz is losing out to starling.
yes, and all of the big 3 legacy airlines have filed for bankruptcy and are still here.
and, again, if you think that having Starlink as the only WiFi provider is good, then it isn't hard to see why UA has tried so hard - and lost - at getting rid of AA from ORD.
“ and, again, if you think that having Starlink as the only WiFi provider is good, then it isn't hard to see why UA has tried so hard - and lost - at getting rid of AA from ORD.”
United blows a lot of hot air about AA and ord, no doubt
But oh tim… the way you try to tie random disconnected topics together and act like you’ve made some amazing point…
lol
Keep trying, slugger
This was a funny take
Smart move by AA and time is of the essence.
My only need for wifi on a plane is to use the airline's app to check on my connecting flight. I've downloaded all the streaming content I'll need. Wifi speed/latency is important to some, but I suspect most are like me and care little. I know that wifi ranks second to only price in importance (over food and ithers) in surveys. But, I suspect this is one of those cases where what we say we want doesn't mesh with actions.
Ben, the regional jets are getting SES, which leverages starlink for their LEO connectivity. The jets I have been on with SES have been just as good as Starlink (for that reason).
A year or so delay will cause only an extremely small number of Delta passengers to switch to American.
Perhaps
But delta doesn’t control the Amazon rollout
And Amazon is struggling to even get rockets lined up right now
Delta has already made poor strategic WiFi decisions resulting in entire sectors of the world with no WiFi vs United and AA
Seems they’ve done it again
AA and UA do not have ANY global regions where they provide free high speed WiFi.
NONE, Max.
DL has free high speed WiFi over the Atlantic and to Latin America and is turning it on aircraft by aircraft over the Pacific.
DL could very likely have global and fleetwide free high speed WiFi by the end of the year. This year.
All of the promises of speed from Starlink don't make a hill of...
AA and UA do not have ANY global regions where they provide free high speed WiFi.
NONE, Max.
DL has free high speed WiFi over the Atlantic and to Latin America and is turning it on aircraft by aircraft over the Pacific.
DL could very likely have global and fleetwide free high speed WiFi by the end of the year. This year.
All of the promises of speed from Starlink don't make a hill of beans worth a difference if it is not available on hundreds of competitor aircraft but DL has free high speed WiFi
“ AA and UA do not have ANY global regions where they provide free high speed WiFi.”
Whoa… did the goal posts just move based on nothing I said? lol
AA does offer free high speed WiFi on global flights on some aircraft (and I’d call domestic a global region )
But United and AA have had WiFi globally for years now. Delta never has ;)
Not “free WiFi” — delta has never...
“ AA and UA do not have ANY global regions where they provide free high speed WiFi.”
Whoa… did the goal posts just move based on nothing I said? lol
AA does offer free high speed WiFi on global flights on some aircraft (and I’d call domestic a global region )
But United and AA have had WiFi globally for years now. Delta never has ;)
Not “free WiFi” — delta has never had global WiFi. United and AA have for years
But in fairness, none of the US3 have ever offered fleet wide free WiFi. Delta literally can’t because of their own multi-year strategic choices. So you can chill about your latest claims. Your cherished delta has never had free WiFi across their own fleet, much less global WiFi like AA and UA
And while delta is still praying for viasat to work across the pacific, United and AA are quickly moving to starlink to significantly upgrade their existing global WiFi. While delta still struggles to provide any WiFi
God, you’re like some idiot stuck on an infinity loop of thought
“ DL could very likely have global and fleetwide free high speed WiFi by the end of the year. This year.”
Perhaps, but delta sure isn’t saying that. Just you ;) they could…
They might finally have more than gogo on their 717 fleet and catch up to American’s high speed WiFi rollout (free too ;) ) that includes the entire narrowbody fleet, unlike delta
Meanwhile, delta is working on “Hughes” and “viasat might work globally this year… maybe” while United and AA are moving far past delta
Keep trying, Timmy
You’re good for some laughs, for sure
the goalpost has ALWAYS been free high speed WiFi to all global regions on all aircraft.
DL will reach that first.
FREE, MAX. and no AA and UA have NEVER HAD FREE high speed global WiFI.
as for the 717s, you just posted less than a week ago that DL had no plans to put free high speed WiFi on its 717s - and yet DL even a week ago had 17 of...
the goalpost has ALWAYS been free high speed WiFi to all global regions on all aircraft.
DL will reach that first.
FREE, MAX. and no AA and UA have NEVER HAD FREE high speed global WiFI.
as for the 717s, you just posted less than a week ago that DL had no plans to put free high speed WiFi on its 717s - and yet DL even a week ago had 17 of them in service.
You post so much that is patently wrong and you believe it because you can't believe the truth.
The power tool commercial says it best about you "is it ok to ask if he is fricking nuts?"
"DL will reach that first."
Facts matter, Tim. Feel free to post any link suggesting Delta will have free high speed wifi that works GLOBALLY before others.
But here's what we actually do know. United is speeding up Starlink installation and will have free global high speed wifi that easily outpaces literally anything Delta has no later than late 2027. AA is behind United but well ahead of Delta...
Fun fact: United has announced...
"DL will reach that first."
Facts matter, Tim. Feel free to post any link suggesting Delta will have free high speed wifi that works GLOBALLY before others.
But here's what we actually do know. United is speeding up Starlink installation and will have free global high speed wifi that easily outpaces literally anything Delta has no later than late 2027. AA is behind United but well ahead of Delta...
Fun fact: United has announced that timeline. Where is delta's equivalent announcement about their timeline to take gogo internet off their mainline fleet?
"FREE, MAX. and no AA and UA have NEVER HAD FREE high speed global WiFI."
I've literally never said AA and UA have had free high speed wifi globally. They've actually HAD high speed wifi globally (or wifi... Panasonic isn't gogo but it also isn't starlink) -- something Delta has yet to accomplish. But you do amuse trying to put words in my mouth to prove a point you're desperately trying to make.
But Again, Delta has also never had free high speed global wifi across their fleet. NEVER. Delta has also NEVER had global wifi. Delta customers are lucky that they can take a 14 hour flight to Oceania with wifi these days. A year ago they couldn't even do that.
"as for the 717s, you just posted less than a week ago that DL had no plans to put free high speed WiFi on its 717s - and yet DL even a week ago had 17 of them in service."
Again. you said I said that. You're a textbook example of "if you repeat your own lies to yourself enough times, they must be true..." I never have said that and you know that since you keep repeating your self-told lies to yourself and posting it. I've said Delta has no announced plan to get high speed wifi on their entire mainline fleet. You've even suggested that the real plan is to just retire the 717s at this point because Delta doesnt' talk about the 717 issue that they created themselves.
"You post so much that is patently wrong and you believe it because you can't believe the truth."
Are you holding a mirror right now? Be honest. Because you're describing yourself quite well.
But hey, at least I wasn't fired by Delta. More than you can say ;)
Just go to bed, Timmy. How many different websites do you need to hop around to look like an idiot who knows nothing and doesn't know what a fact even is?
all that keyboard banging and we can condense this down to
"United has announced.... blah blah blah"
DL has free high speed WiFi on its TATL and Latin America route systems. AA and UA can't say that anytime soon.
Again.
Feel free to post any link whatsoever backing up your dogmatic claims about Delta reaching any goal first. Show us the link to the rollout. United has it. And we have a general idea about AA's timing now too though not as specific as United.
You know Delta is nervous when Timmy comes back to write a thesis about why it doesn’t matter with the usual made up “facts”…
Nothing premium about the slowest internet at the cool kids’ party
MaxPower says, "You know Delta is nervous when Timmy comes back to write a thesis about why it doesn’t matter with the usual made up “facts”…"
Do you really think Delta gets 'nervous' when Timmy makes up "facts"?
:)
touche, rebel.
But the Passport Plum kool-aid is quite strong in Atlanta. Tim isn't the only ex or current DL employee making things up if you've ever read a Delta press release ;)
there will be nothing premium about anyone else's earnings. Delta's will be out in less than 12 hours.
As much as you want to think internet defines the cool kids, it is actually profits.
DL does and will do that better than anyone else in the Americas - maybe worldwide this year - and top earnings go much further than any POSSIBLE advantage from internet speed.
If you want to level the playing field...
there will be nothing premium about anyone else's earnings. Delta's will be out in less than 12 hours.
As much as you want to think internet defines the cool kids, it is actually profits.
DL does and will do that better than anyone else in the Americas - maybe worldwide this year - and top earnings go much further than any POSSIBLE advantage from internet speed.
If you want to level the playing field between DL and the rest of the industry, go negotiate peace in the Middle East and Ukraine/Russia.
If you can make peace happen, what it does or does not do for DL is inconsequential.
You’re far too easy to lure in lol
It’s like fishing with dynamite it’s so easy to get you to reply.
Beyond that… it’s tiring replying to your kindergarten level of IQ
You just say the same things over and over again because you truly have nothing else to say…
Never change, tim
Though again. No one missed you but you are predictable to return on a WiFi article where you’ve already...
You’re far too easy to lure in lol
It’s like fishing with dynamite it’s so easy to get you to reply.
Beyond that… it’s tiring replying to your kindergarten level of IQ
You just say the same things over and over again because you truly have nothing else to say…
Never change, tim
Though again. No one missed you but you are predictable to return on a WiFi article where you’ve already been shown to be an idiot on every other comment section on the internet
Trying it here now since your other comments on other sites have made you the usual laughing stock?
You simply don't want to admit that a company that can't make money - and there are multiple of them in the US right now - are completely defenseless in trying to compete with DAL.
But DL is not focusing its competitive attention on those airlines that aren't expected to make money this year. It is focused on United which has what DL wants - a large TPAC presence and west coast presence.
If you...
You simply don't want to admit that a company that can't make money - and there are multiple of them in the US right now - are completely defenseless in trying to compete with DAL.
But DL is not focusing its competitive attention on those airlines that aren't expected to make money this year. It is focused on United which has what DL wants - a large TPAC presence and west coast presence.
If you find financial reality "kindergarten logic" then it says way more about you than me.
AA, AS, B6 and UA management all understand the principle quite well whether you put up a stiff upper lip.
Of course, they should fight back however they can.
the notion that faster WiFi - if it really exists in real life - will move anything compared to billions of dollars more in income is just plain naive.
"But DL is not focusing its competitive attention on those airlines that aren't expected to make money this year. It is focused on United which has what DL wants - a large TPAC presence and west coast presence."
Delta could probably start by not being in last place on every growth metric on the West Coast behind United and AA.
But again. You are predictable.
Run out of things to say or simply...
"But DL is not focusing its competitive attention on those airlines that aren't expected to make money this year. It is focused on United which has what DL wants - a large TPAC presence and west coast presence."
Delta could probably start by not being in last place on every growth metric on the West Coast behind United and AA.
But again. You are predictable.
Run out of things to say or simply can't reply because EVERYONE has reminded you of how even Delta sees incremental yield due to LEO wifi? well then, just do the "Tim Dunn shuffle" and talk about profits.
Sleep tight, Tim and dream of profit sharing checks that were never yours and never will be ;)
you are not only predictable but, as usual, wrong.
DL is the third largest US airline by ASMs and RPMs but the largest by profit and most financial metrics.
If you or others can't figure out how those two things are true at the same time, then youi truly don't understand either business or airlines.
DL's earnings will be out soon and they will highlight that DL has by far the biggest competitive...
you are not only predictable but, as usual, wrong.
DL is the third largest US airline by ASMs and RPMs but the largest by profit and most financial metrics.
If you or others can't figure out how those two things are true at the same time, then youi truly don't understand either business or airlines.
DL's earnings will be out soon and they will highlight that DL has by far the biggest competitive weapon at its disposable: industry leading profitability and a better ability to control fuel costs than perhaps any airline in the world.
nothing to do with the topic, as usual, Tim. But thanks for proving you've lost the wifi argument.
As ever, you just retrench to talking about profits when you can't respond on topic.
Ryanair and Delta both do well financially. Doesn't make either one premium because of it or their wifi better.
Delta, like most large enterprises, is being run by the beancounters. It is too bad, as generally their flights are OK, but there do not appear to have any aspirations for greatness. Also, we are assuming that Starlink offers a much superior product. As I have not experienced their product, I am curious to see those results on either American or United. On my last 2 flights with Delta, there was no Wi-Fi. Apparently something...
Delta, like most large enterprises, is being run by the beancounters. It is too bad, as generally their flights are OK, but there do not appear to have any aspirations for greatness. Also, we are assuming that Starlink offers a much superior product. As I have not experienced their product, I am curious to see those results on either American or United. On my last 2 flights with Delta, there was no Wi-Fi. Apparently something about their transitioning, but I do have a huge problem with that when you could be flying another airline that actually has Wi-Fi running.
the only region where DL has consistently not working WiFi for the past several years is TPAC and DL is turning on service to Viasat's new Asia satellite.
You are kidding yourself if you think any other airlines are consistenly providing fleet or globe-wide high speed WiFi, let alone on a free basis because there is simply no other airline that is doing it and certainly not on the scale that DL is doing...
the only region where DL has consistently not working WiFi for the past several years is TPAC and DL is turning on service to Viasat's new Asia satellite.
You are kidding yourself if you think any other airlines are consistenly providing fleet or globe-wide high speed WiFi, let alone on a free basis because there is simply no other airline that is doing it and certainly not on the scale that DL is doing it right now.
DL will very likely be the first airline to reach global free high speed WiFi on 100% of its fleet and that could happen by the end of THIS year
The competitive advantage that DL has had by leading free global WiFi rollout is simply not going away anytime soon
https://www.ookla.com/articles/worlds-fastest-in-flight-wi-fi
WiFi Consistency by airline (% > 25 Mbps download & 3 Mbps upload)
Hawaiian: 95%
United: 64%
Delta: 2%
Again, Rebel. Know your sources and what you post. You're becoming as bad as Tim at just posting the same article over and over again with little idea of what it even says by your summary of it.
You're referencing an article from mid 2025 when United barely even had starlink wifi and the article even specifically said it's looking at United regional jets with Starlink, not United's overall wifi at the time of testing.
The link is there for all to see. I can only guess why data would lead to such a reaction. Too funny.
because you're posting the article as though United had better wifi than AA and DL in 2025 and they simply did not. If lying and misrepresentations are funny to you, great.
You don't seem to think about what you're posting and whether it passes the sniff test. Absolutely no one in mid 2025 was thinking "wow. United has such better wifi than AA and DL".
I simply posted the data from a survey with a link for all to see. Viasat, Panasonic and all the last-gen WiFi is slow and unreliable. Starlink is a complete game-changer that United has installed on 628 aircraft, 1,000 by the end of the year, all wide body aircraft by next summer and the whole fleet along with United Next interiors by the end of next year.
So sorry LTD and you are so emotional about simple data. Too funny.
how is it that you are so rational when you post in reply to people other than me and then are worse off in terms of accuracy when trying to argue w/ me?
DL ALWAYS has had a plan for free high speed WiFi on all of its fleet and across its entire network.
a dozen and a half plus 717s have Hughes and they are being modded at the rate of 3-4 aircraft per...
how is it that you are so rational when you post in reply to people other than me and then are worse off in terms of accuracy when trying to argue w/ me?
DL ALWAYS has had a plan for free high speed WiFi on all of its fleet and across its entire network.
a dozen and a half plus 717s have Hughes and they are being modded at the rate of 3-4 aircraft per week
DL is turning on Viasat on its A350s aircraft by aircraft.
both of those facts are completely counter to what you posted online over the past week.
doctor, heal thyself.
tim
I get irritated by fanboys of any shade misrepresenting data and trying to make points and jabs that simply don't exist in reality off "data" that they completely misrepresent.
Delta does a lot of things great. They have plenty of shortcomings.
Same can be said for AA and United, in my opinion.
You are one of the worst offenders on that. And to make it worse, you then double down even...
tim
I get irritated by fanboys of any shade misrepresenting data and trying to make points and jabs that simply don't exist in reality off "data" that they completely misrepresent.
Delta does a lot of things great. They have plenty of shortcomings.
Same can be said for AA and United, in my opinion.
You are one of the worst offenders on that. And to make it worse, you then double down even when you know you're wrong and try to change the topic rather than just admit when you mess up like any kind of normal and professional human being would do. Rebel is doing it more and more, as well with consistent misrepresentations about items like that article and his incessant inability to comprehend network fleet size and pretending United has magically become the biggest airline by fleet when they've actually been retiring regionals like crazy (to be clear, a good thing and part of United's strategy -- but not a complete picture of US3 fleets).
"both of those facts are completely counter to what you posted online over the past week."
You keep repeating this as though it's true. Your reading comprehension is rather scary, Tim.
Post the link where Delta has, like United, laid out the roll out plan to get fleet wide high speed wifi. United posts it. AA has posted about it, as well, though I don't think the Full mainline starlink roll out has a specific timeline yet that I've seen.
I've never said that no 717 has high speed internet. Delta started the Hughes installation then paused it for a few years. I've simply said Delta doesn't seem to have a plan to get to a full high speed internet across their fleet. Even you have occasionally posted that the rollout to high speed internet might have more to do with 717 retirements vs actual installation. Delta hasn't said anything though. They seem to just pretend they have free high speed internet across the fleet when they definitely do not.
But as I've said repeatedly to you. Feel free to post a link with Delta's new plan. Otherwise, one has to assume you're just making things up, per usual.
Don't we all know by now that Delta is the world's only PERFECT airline? LOL
American will have a short-lived advantage in wifi speed, but that's not something I salivate over. Many are treating this like the second coming.
Ben, for the love of God, please add some type of rule that will keep Tim and the people who still insist on having a rational discussion with him from doing this annoying back and forth in the comment section. Just take a look at the level of the discussion when Tim isn’t here: it’s so much better, intelligent and engaging. Please consider this.
except "their" points are not rational but argumentative.
Some people simply do not want the truth to be told which is all I am here to do.
Please consider that OMAAT embraces all viewpoints
Why is your truth so consistently wrong? Sorry about the miss and the lower guide.
that is laughable that just got castigated by "one of your own" for using dated reports and from someone that incessantly manipulates data to avoid reality.
UA is back to reporting in the same week as AA and WN; they only do that when they have no chance of being even remotely close to DL's earnings.
You really won't be crowing or dishing on anyone else on the 20th.
LTD says, "UA is back to reporting in the same week as AA and WN; they only do that when they have no chance of being even remotely close to DL's earnings."
UAL smoked DAL in Q1 2026 Earnings. UA: $699m, DL: -$289m
Q1 '26 report dates
DAL 4/8/26
UAL 4/21/26
LUV 4/22/26
AAL 4/23/26
LTD's ability to be consistently & demonstrably wrong is impressive.
and you still can't accept that UA trashed its balance sheet in order to get those higher earnings thru sale/leaseback transactions while DL took NON-CASH re-evaluations of its equity positions.
Why is it so hard for you to admit that UA's total debt is now within a couple billion dollars of AA's and there is a real good chance that UA's total debt will exceed AA's before the end of 2027?
Boeing is finally...
and you still can't accept that UA trashed its balance sheet in order to get those higher earnings thru sale/leaseback transactions while DL took NON-CASH re-evaluations of its equity positions.
Why is it so hard for you to admit that UA's total debt is now within a couple billion dollars of AA's and there is a real good chance that UA's total debt will exceed AA's before the end of 2027?
Boeing is finally cranking out the planes right as UA has to cut capacity or fly it at a loss. Yikes! talk about poor timing.
I get the facts - all of them - straight while you manipulate the H out of anything you can to try to convince anyone that UA is best when it is clearly not much better than AA in some metrics including on-time in recent months. you were quiet on that article from Gary. no wonder
lies would be calling UA's 1st quarter performance "smoking" - unless you think that trashing the balance sheet is ok if the income statement looks good.
and, let's follow your train of thought. Is UA's finance team so incompetent that they can't close books as fast as they used to - because they most certainly have REPEATEDLY reported within one week of DL's reports?
what a weird thing to be proud of... Delta closing the books the fastest...
You realize how they do it, right Tim? I'm sure you don't but were told it's something to be proud of lol
Delta just makes about a billion assumptions that they change later. It's not that they're any faster at closing the books. You're such a moron sometimes the ways you attempt to claim a cheap victory.
God... the things you say sometimes that just betray such ignorance.
as usual, you spout off about stuff which you know nothing about just for the sakie of arguing which actually is factually incorrect.
If your statement
"Delta just makes about a billion assumptions that they change later."
is true, you should be able to provide proof that DL makes accounting changes that are not the norm.
You can't stand that someone comes behind and calls you out for the factually incorrect stuff you...
as usual, you spout off about stuff which you know nothing about just for the sakie of arguing which actually is factually incorrect.
If your statement
"Delta just makes about a billion assumptions that they change later."
is true, you should be able to provide proof that DL makes accounting changes that are not the norm.
You can't stand that someone comes behind and calls you out for the factually incorrect stuff you say but instead of walking away as any rational person would do, you double down on your falsehoods.
DL clearly closes its books and reports faster than other airlines.
Instead of arguing incessantly about a fact you don't like, just accept it. but you can't accept that DL can do anything better than someone else and you certainly can't accept that I am the one that understands the industry better than you.
Pathetic attempt to pivot from you getting caught completely lying. Too funny.
Ben, please do a side by side review of DL/UA/AA long haul business class. Not a meta review, like actually fly the flights back to back. DL being "premium" is a complete lie in my opinion but I'd love to see your take.
Looks like vacation is over. :(