We know that American Airlines is planning on placing a wide body aircraft order in the near future, based on negotiations with Airbus and Boeing. While we’ve had no idea which aircraft type was the frontrunner, I think just about everyone assumed the Boeing 777X wasn’t realistically in the running. Well, there’s now an interesting clue on that front… though who knows, maybe we’re reading too much into this!
In this post:
American pilot trains on and flies Boeing 777X
JonNYC flags an Instagram post by an American Boeing 777 pilot. Specifically, she spent the past few weeks in England at Boeing’s training center, where she trained on the new 777X. She then even got to fly the 777X, and piloted a segment from Spokane to Boeing Field.
In the post, she wrote that it’s “truly a once in a lifetime opportunity to be part of the training process for future pilots.” Then in response to another comment, she wrote “really a once in a lifetime experience,” and “I don’t think I’ll be here when this jet comes to our fleet.”
Could American be considering the Boeing 777Xs?
Up until this point, I think if you asked just about anyone whether American would consider ordering the Boeing 777X, they’d say “no way.” So when I first saw the video, I assumed I was just interpreting it incorrectly, because this was all too obvious.
But I’m struggling to come up with other explanations? At a minimum, we know American sent her on official business to fly the 777X in some context. When an airline orders a new plane (and particularly, an all-new aircraft type that isn’t even certified), it’s common for the airline to send a couple of pilots to essentially give the plane a “test drive.”
So I have to imagine that’s the context in which this project was done. Now, whether this actually resulted in an order remains to be seen. It could be that she was doing this in anticipation of an order shortly being finalized, or it could’ve been done purely as a Boeing sales pitch (“send some of your pilots, they’ll tell you how great it is!”).
I guess the other possible explanation is that Boeing was somehow contracting 777 pilots from airlines to figure out crew training processes, or something like that, since the plane is in the final stages of certification. But then again, she literally talked about the plane joining American’s fleet, so you’d assume she wouldn’t be misinformed on that.
As I said above, it would be really surprising to see American order the Boeing 777X. It’s just a bigger plane than any US carrier wants, given their split hub strategy. You’d think American would instead go for something like an Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-10.
I guess to look at differently, I’m sure Boeing would love to have a customer in the United States and to keep increasing its 777X order book, and I’m sure they’d give American a deal. Also, I’m not sure how old this particular pilot is, but she points out that the plane will likely arrive after she retires. So this could be some order for the 2030s, which gives both parties a lot of flexibility, but mutually good press (which they can both use right now).
Bottom line
An American Airlines Boeing 777 pilot trained on the 777X, and even wrote on social media about the plane joining American’s fleet in the future. At a minimum, this can’t help but make you wonder if there’s a small chance that American could be ordering this plane.
It’s common for airlines to send some pilots when ordering new aircraft, especially when it’s new technology, like the 777X. I wouldn’t necessarily read too much into this, except this pilot also suggested the plane would join American’s fleet, so…
What do you think? Is there even a small chance American orders the 777X?
I don’t trust the folding wing tip design. A maintenance error or malfunction waiting to happen 15-20 yrs down the road.
I spoke with a pilot with long tenured experience with AA on a flight the other day while sitting next to him. He told me that he "highly doubts" that the 777X will ever get approved and in-use for carriers in the US. Said it is kind of a dump of a project already.
and what would he know about aircraft certification? a certification program that is wrapping up in 3 months
I once sat next to a co-pilot on a flight and we were sitting next to the wing. I asked him about the mark on the wing for flaps 15(?) and when they would use that… and he said he didn’t know, they just always set it to flaps 30 (?)…
I can't see them taking a lot of these, but there is pretty much endless capacity JFK-LHR with slot restrictions on both sides. Could also look at ORD and DFW.
I could also see AA doing more of the Delta strategy of pushing more feed to Asia partners (particularly TYO) with bigger planes, rather than trying too many new routes.
Outside of those use cases, I don't see the appeal for AA. Maybe GRU, just because it is such a massive, growing city?
American won't be around by the time the jet is certified.
Obviously in a few months DL will scoop in and place an order for delivery once they're certified in 2048 and it becomes a masterclass purchase.
Maybe the early versions (10-20 fleets) that no airlines will take over can be purchased cheap. Might have slightly worse performance and customized differently but could be still worth for AA with its wide body shortage problem.
Is this really a thing? I always assumed you have order books and then they will get delivered in order sequence?
It is true. NTU(Not Taken Up) aircrafts are already in the inventory, and it's basically first come, first served.
This is how Turkish and Air India could get A350-900s so quickly when the sanction on Russia made it impossoble for Aeroflot to take them.
However, to take the NTU aircrafts as quickly as possible, the customer shouldn't change any option. They should take it just as it is.
You've missed a few stories on the initial 777X build batch. The first 20-30 frames had to be "worked on", thus downgraded performance and testing wear and tear (so to speak). Lufthansa and Emirates publicly refused to take them, soooo - Boeing will try to offload them for "cheap" onto someone.
Some airlines can take a penalty dump on certain sectors like LHR-JFK, but AA would probably use these on the current/similar circuits between...
You've missed a few stories on the initial 777X build batch. The first 20-30 frames had to be "worked on", thus downgraded performance and testing wear and tear (so to speak). Lufthansa and Emirates publicly refused to take them, soooo - Boeing will try to offload them for "cheap" onto someone.
Some airlines can take a penalty dump on certain sectors like LHR-JFK, but AA would probably use these on the current/similar circuits between MIA-GRU-MIA-LHR-JFK-LHR-LAX-SYD-LAX- and on and on - so the LAX and SYD would take a penalty on a route where yields matter, but I could be wrong ;-)
Let's see.
I agree. Also AA need less range unlike UA due to their network and joint ventures so they can take the penalty on performance of the early builds (as mentioned by STC) as long as they get a very cheap deal.
Do they really need a 777x to fly from Dfw-Abq
Boeing asked UA pilots as well. This isn't specific to AA
If you're trying to negotiate a deal with Airbus, what better move than to show some interest in the competition?
Come on AA - make it happen!
Should we care? What's the route network? What's the seat? How's the food and beverage? How's the service?
It actually makes sense given their international network is highly concentrated out of one airport (DFW) and flights to London, Sydney and Hong Kong would make perfect sense.
787-10 is more efficient to fly to London
Not always. 787-10 is more efficient than 777-9 in most cases, but there are some cases where the bigger plane makes more profit.
LHR is highly slot-restricted and the demand is high. It's hard to increase the frequency, but they can fly a bigger plane and if only they can fill the seats, it makes more profit.
This is why BA still keeps A380 and ordered 779.
HND can also be the place to fly the bigger plane.
Actually, the 777X is not too large for American. DFW-LHR, and other EU routes could be easily served. Same goes for other fortress hubs.
I'm a big fan of American's new competitive edge. Scott Kirby repeatedly poked the bear. The bear is now awake.
New seat back entertainment. New, elevated snacks announced today. And now this.
The U.S. needs more competition from the big three. This is a good sign.
Don't both AA and UA fly the 777-300ER? Don't these planes need a replacement?
Why is it such a long-shot to order the 777-9 even if its only 10-20 planes. If AA doesn't want to compromise on slot controlled airports (LHR, HND, etc.) and also is trying to go premium heavy (lots of business class) while still having a sizable economy cabin
No, the 77W fleets at AA and UA don't need replacing, any time soon and not for at least a decade more, if not longer. UA's 77Ws are newer, having been the last of the 777-300ER builds. The AA 77Ws are all 2012-2014 builds, and are currently being sent into mods (the first is done) for the new cabin and products, slowly, with a completion date sometime in late 2027 or 2028.
American isn't ordering...
No, the 77W fleets at AA and UA don't need replacing, any time soon and not for at least a decade more, if not longer. UA's 77Ws are newer, having been the last of the 777-300ER builds. The AA 77Ws are all 2012-2014 builds, and are currently being sent into mods (the first is done) for the new cabin and products, slowly, with a completion date sometime in late 2027 or 2028.
American isn't ordering the 777-9. It would be a redundant machine and too much capacity on top of the existing 77Ws, even if deliveries did not begin for 5 or more years. The most likely new AA wide body order will be more 787-9s or the 78X.
@shoeguy Other than the fact that there is no chance they will get them until 2030's which does fit in well towards next gen.
The long term timeline on the potential order may be why the test pilot says she wont be around for the deliveries. If AAs 773s have a 20-25 yr life cycle, they will need replacement in the latter part of the 2030s. Given Boeing's repeated delays, that perfect.
What’s the ole ETA from Boeing on 777X now? 2030? 2035? Meh, anything’s possible…
AA may order it now to replace their 77Ws down the line. I think they definetly could make the aircraft work in some markets (just as they do currently with the 77W). I mean, they have a ton of LHR slots, with flights to multiple major US cities. A 787-9 replacing the 77Ws would be a capacity decrease, so I see why AA would want the plane for the future, and I always assumed they...
AA may order it now to replace their 77Ws down the line. I think they definetly could make the aircraft work in some markets (just as they do currently with the 77W). I mean, they have a ton of LHR slots, with flights to multiple major US cities. A 787-9 replacing the 77Ws would be a capacity decrease, so I see why AA would want the plane for the future, and I always assumed they would order it at one point. The question for me was when it would happen (basically when would Boeing give AA a good enough deal).