We know that American Airlines is planning on placing a wide body aircraft order in the near future, based on negotiations with Airbus and Boeing. While weve had no idea which aircraft type was the frontrunner, I think just about everyone assumed the Boeing 777X wasnt realistically in the running. Well, theres now an interesting clue on that front though who knows, maybe were reading too much into this!
AA may order it now to replace their 77Ws down the line. I think they definetly could make the aircraft work in some markets (just as they do currently with the 77W). I mean, they have a ton of LHR slots, with flights to multiple major US cities. A 787-9 replacing the 77Ws would be a capacity decrease, so I see why AA would want the plane for the future, and I always assumed they would order it at one point. The question for me was when it would happen (basically when would Boeing give AA a good enough deal).
What’s the ole ETA from Boeing on 777X now? 2030? 2035? Meh, anything’s possible…
Don't both AA and UA fly the 777-300ER? Don't these planes need a replacement?
Why is it such a long-shot to order the 777-9 even if its only 10-20 planes. If AA doesn't want to compromise on slot controlled airports (LHR, HND, etc.) and also is trying to go premium heavy (lots of business class) while still having a sizable economy cabin
No, the 77W fleets at AA and UA don't need replacing, any time soon and not for at least a decade more, if not longer. UA's 77Ws are newer, having been the last of the 777-300ER builds. The AA 77Ws are all 2012-2014 builds, and are currently being sent into mods (the first is done) for the new cabin and products, slowly, with a completion date sometime in late 2027 or 2028.
American isn't ordering the 777-9. It would be a redundant machine and too much capacity on top of the existing 77Ws, even if deliveries did not begin for 5 or more years. The most likely new AA wide body order will be more 787-9s or the 78X.
@shoeguy Other than the fact that there is no chance they will get them until 2030's which does fit in well towards next gen.
The long term timeline on the potential order may be why the test pilot says she wont be around for the deliveries. If AAs 773s have a 20-25 yr life cycle, they will need replacement in the latter part of the 2030s. Given Boeing's repeated delays, that perfect.
I'm a big fan of American's new competitive edge. Scott Kirby repeatedly poked the bear. The bear is now awake.
New seat back entertainment. New, elevated snacks announced today. And now this.
The U.S. needs more competition from the big three. This is a good sign.
Actually, the 777X is not too large for American. DFW-LHR, and other EU routes could be easily served. Same goes for other fortress hubs.
It actually makes sense given their international network is highly concentrated out of one airport (DFW) and flights to London, Sydney and Hong Kong would make perfect sense.
Not always. 787-10 is more efficient than 777-9 in most cases, but there are some cases where the bigger plane makes more profit.
LHR is highly slot-restricted and the demand is high. It's hard to increase the frequency, but they can fly a bigger plane and if only they can fill the seats, it makes more profit.
This is why BA still keeps A380 and ordered 779.
HND can also be the place to fly the bigger plane.
"More efficient" at what, specifically? Blanket statements like that, make no sense in the aviation industry.
There's no aircraft that's "more efficient" at all things (or even most things), in all circumstances, against others.
Otherwise, all aircraft orders would be for THAT aircraft.
Should we care? What's the route network? What's the seat? How's the food and beverage? How's the service?
Come on AA - make it happen!
If you're trying to negotiate a deal with Airbus, what better move than to show some interest in the competition?
Boeing asked UA pilots as well. This isn't specific to AA
Do they really need a 777x to fly from Dfw-Abq
Maybe the early versions (10-20 fleets) that no airlines will take over can be purchased cheap. Might have slightly worse performance and customized differently but could be still worth for AA with its wide body shortage problem.
Is this really a thing? I always assumed you have order books and then they will get delivered in order sequence?
It is true. NTU(Not Taken Up) aircrafts are already in the inventory, and it's basically first come, first served.
This is how Turkish and Air India could get A350-900s so quickly when the sanction on Russia made it impossoble for Aeroflot to take them.
However, to take the NTU aircrafts as quickly as possible, the customer shouldn't change any option. They should take it just as it is.
You've missed a few stories on the initial 777X build batch. The first 20-30 frames had to be "worked on", thus downgraded performance and testing wear and tear (so to speak). Lufthansa and Emirates publicly refused to take them, soooo - Boeing will try to offload them for "cheap" onto someone.
Some airlines can take a penalty dump on certain sectors like LHR-JFK, but AA would probably use these on the current/similar circuits between MIA-GRU-MIA-LHR-JFK-LHR-LAX-SYD-LAX- and on and on - so the LAX and SYD would take a penalty on a route where yields matter, but I could be wrong 😉
Let's see.
I agree. Also AA need less range unlike UA due to their network and joint ventures so they can take the penalty on performance of the early builds (as mentioned by STC) as long as they get a very cheap deal.
Obviously in a few months DL will scoop in and place an order for delivery once they're certified in 2048 and it becomes a masterclass purchase.
American won't be around by the time the jet is certified.
I can't see them taking a lot of these, but there is pretty much endless capacity JFK-LHR with slot restrictions on both sides. Could also look at ORD and DFW.
I could also see AA doing more of the Delta strategy of pushing more feed to Asia partners (particularly TYO) with bigger planes, rather than trying too many new routes.
Outside of those use cases, I don't see the appeal for AA. Maybe GRU, just because it is such a massive, growing city?
I spoke with a pilot with long tenured experience with AA on a flight the other day while sitting next to him. He told me that he "highly doubts" that the 777X will ever get approved and in-use for carriers in the US. Said it is kind of a dump of a project already.
and what would he know about aircraft certification? a certification program that is wrapping up in 3 months
I once sat next to a co-pilot on a flight and we were sitting next to the wing. I asked him about the mark on the wing for flaps 15(?) and when they would use that… and he said he didn’t know, they just always set it to flaps 30 (?)…
I don’t trust the folding wing tip design. A maintenance error or malfunction waiting to happen 15-20 yrs down the road.
So what if it does. You realize that the aircraft has to pass all 5 phases of flight with the wingtips both inactive, as well as imbalanced (one deployed, one not) in order to gain certification, do you not?
Even if one or both of them fails (or even detaches) during flight, it won't affect the aircraft.
Same standard applies to the current wingtip designs (fence, blended, sharklet, scimitar, and AT) in service.