On June 12, 2025, we saw an Air India Boeing 787 crash after takeoff from Ahmedabad, killing 260 people. This is the most fatal aviation accident globally in roughly a decade, the most fatal aviation accident in India in over three decades, and it’s also probably the most mysterious since MH370. What would cause a Boeing 787 to essentially fall out of the sky just seconds after takeoff?
Just under a month after the accident, India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has released its preliminary report into the crash. It confirms what had been reported earlier by Jon Ostrower at The Air Current, though in reality, it raises more questions than answers.
In this post:
AI171 fuel switches were turned off after takeoff
The AAIB has just released its preliminary report about the crash of Air India flight AI171, roughly 30 days after the accident, in line with international standards. Let me emphasize that this is just the preliminary report, and it’ll likely take months (if not years) until the final report is released.
The preliminary report primarily recaps the facts of the incident, though it contains some really interesting tidbits as well. Long story short, we know the crash happened because both of the engine fuel control switches were turned off just seconds after takeoff. Here are the facts that are contained in the report:
- The first officer was the pilot flying, while the captain was the pilot monitoring (there’s no mention of a relief pilot or someone in a jump seat, so I assume that means the two were alone in the flight deck)
- The plane took off at 1:39PM local time, and achieved its maximum speed of 180 knots just three seconds after takeoff
- “Immediately thereafter,” the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from “RUN” to “CUTOFF,” one after the other, with a time gap of just one second; moving these switches starves the engines of fuel, so the plane lost power
- “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff,” and “the other pilot responded that he did not do so”
- Just 10 seconds after the engines were transitioned from “RUN” to “CUTOFF,” the engines were moved back to the “RUN” position, but at that point, it was too late to recover
This accident has become even more of a mystery
Obviously this preliminary report contains some major clues, though if anything, it only makes this even more of a mystery. What could possibly cause the fuel cutoff switches to be turned off just moments after takeoff? Tens of millions of commercial flights operate globally every year, and the Boeing 787 has been flying for over 15 years, and suffice it to say that something like this hasn’t happened before.
For some additional context, engine fuel control switches are ordinarily only adjusted on the ground, either when the engines are being started up or shut down. They can also be used in the air to shut down an engine, if there’s an engine failure. Switching the fuel control switch from “RUN” to “CUTOFF” immediately stops the fuel from flowing to the engine, causing the engine to immediately shut down, and lose thrust.
The fuel cutoff switches are located underneath the Dreamliner’s throttle handles, and are protected with brackets, to prevent their accidental movement. A metal stop lock mechanism also requires the crew to lift each switch past the stop in order to move it.
It’s anyone’s guess if what happened here was some horrible technological or mechanical failure, or if there were human factors involved. And if there were human factors, was it accidental, or was it intentional? It’s hard to imagine what kind of a technological failure could cause this. Because it’s just that the fuel was suddenly cut off, but we know that the switches physically moved, and they moved one second apart (which doesn’t seem consistent with some technological failure).
I find it interesting how the cockpit voice recorder reportedly recorded one of the pilots asking the other why he cut off the engines, and he responded that he didn’t:
- One wonders, did the pilot asking the other pilot why he did the cutoff actually see the cutoff happen, or he just assumed that if the cutoff switches were moved, it must have been the other pilot? Because he didn’t ask “if,” but instead, he asked “why”
- Did the actions of the other pilot support that he actually didn’t touch the switches, or was that just said on the cockpit voice recorder, to create deniability? Historically when pilots have tried to sabotage a plane, they’ve often tried to create deniability on the cockpit voice recorder
It would be interesting to have more context on the discussion that happened among the pilots before and after that. It would also be interesting to know if it was the captain or first officer who asked why the other pilot moved the switches.
Since the first officer was the pilot flying, he would’ve been especially busy and focused during the critical takeoff phase. During the takeoff roll, he would’ve had one hand on the yoke and one hand on the thrust, and then after takeoff, he would’ve likely had two hands on the yoke. That doesn’t leave any hands to play around with the fuel cutoff switches.
We honestly have absolutely no clue what caused this. There’s no answer here that will make the public feel any better, right?
- If one were to intentionally take down a plane, starving the engines of fuel just seconds after takeoff is certainly one way to do it; what a horrifying scenario that will no doubt make the travel public feel uneasy
- Conversely, if this was some technological issue, that’s perhaps even more frightening of a reality, that the engine cutoff switches could’ve just miraculously had their position switched at such a critical phase of flight
Obviously not all details of the investigation are public. However, it’s probably somewhat telling that no emergency safety directives have been issued about the jet, and the possibility of this happening. That suggests that at least as of now, investigators haven’t discovered any potential cause that they view as a repeatable problem.
Bottom line
The preliminary accident report has been released about AI171, the Air India Boeing 787 that crashed in Ahmedabad just moments after takeoff, killing 260 people.
We’ve now learned that just seconds after takeoff, the engine fuel control switches were turned from “RUN” to “CUTOFF,” starving the plane of fuel in its most critical phase of flight. The setting was changed back just 10 seconds later, but at such a critical point in the flight, there was no time to recover.
What caused the fuel control switches to be shut off? That’s a mystery. In the cockpit voice recorder, one of the pilots was heard asking the other pilot why he cut off the engines, but he claimed he didn’t. It’s hard to know what to make of that interaction without more context.
What do you make of this preliminary report into the crash of AI171?
What a lovely day to check my favorite blog. I am sure the comments will be very high quality, and the discourse respectful.
I've certainly suspected homicide by pilot suicide since there was mostly silence from the investigators up until this latest news on Friday.
Some might be interested to read an article published in today’s Times Newspaper ….
I thought you would be interested in this story from The Times:
Sabotage or suicide? Air India report puts pilots in the frame.
Was the jump seat occupied???
There are two worst-case scenario outcomes here.
1) Pilot intervention
2) Hacking
I understand the physical switches have fail-safes but as a white-hat hacker (formerly malicious) who I once interviewed told me: anything connected is hackable.
Understand that the biggest act of aviation terrorism in the modern era would not be kinetic actions resulting in loss of life, it would be an immediate erosion in our trust of essential systems.
We need to know much more about the 56-year-old captain, specifically his behavior in the last few months. We should actually go back a couple years and find out whether he had been experiencing any “emotional,” “mental” or relationship problems, and whether he had been diagnosed with anything.
His friends and family must be asked if he had been experiencing insomnia or severe sleep disturbances. Also if he had exhibited a change in personality/behavior....
We need to know much more about the 56-year-old captain, specifically his behavior in the last few months. We should actually go back a couple years and find out whether he had been experiencing any “emotional,” “mental” or relationship problems, and whether he had been diagnosed with anything.
His friends and family must be asked if he had been experiencing insomnia or severe sleep disturbances. Also if he had exhibited a change in personality/behavior.
He is at the right age to have developed frontotemporal dementia: Psychopathic Presentation, which I believe was the cause of a few other airline disasters.
Obviously a result of Trump Derangemant Syndrome by a foreign national. How is it that MSNBC hasn't reported on this?
Hi Ben,
As usual thanks for your reporting. In this article, I can see you are trying to be fair, but you seem to lend a lot of weight to the idea this could have been a bizarre mechanical failure.
I appreciate the need to be careful and fair, but given the cockpit conversation about the cutoff, and fact that the switches are specifically designed to be impossible to activate accidentally, do you think it's...
Hi Ben,
As usual thanks for your reporting. In this article, I can see you are trying to be fair, but you seem to lend a lot of weight to the idea this could have been a bizarre mechanical failure.
I appreciate the need to be careful and fair, but given the cockpit conversation about the cutoff, and fact that the switches are specifically designed to be impossible to activate accidentally, do you think it's appropriate to give equal weight to the idea of a bizarre electronic failure?
I respect the desire for balanced reporting but this is leaning towards "bothsideism" that may be misleading and inaccurate in this case.
Ahhhh, this over-used and nonsensical term of "bothsideism" is essentially the entire goal of scientific inquiry. You absolutely must give full credence to all ideas until there is conclusive proof. This involves observation followed by hypothesis (assumption) which leads to reproductive theories (substantiated explanation). Along the entire process, if you avoid this "bothsideism" then you are not performing scientific inquiry properly. Drop the use of that moronic term.
Ahhhh, this over-used and nonsensical term of "bothsideism" is essentially the entire goal of scientific inquiry. You absolutely must give full credence to all ideas until there is conclusive proof. This involves observation followed by hypothesis (assumption) which leads to reproductive theories (substantiated explanation). Along the entire process, if you avoid this "bothsideism" then you are not performing scientific inquiry properly. Drop the use of that moronic term.
Did you really wrote "yolks" vs "yokes", was that a joke?
I would bet that Ben at least partially voice dictates as do many journalists.
He does a good job of cleaning stuff up before releasing but there is a balance between getting articles out and having everything perfect.
Ben gets a pretty good balance in that regard.
@Ben I think you meant to put yoke and not yolk
I think the Captain asked "if" knowing that he in fact had turned them off, and that the question would be caught on the CVR implicating the First Officer
Even on a single engine Cessna, one of the checklist procedures, is to shut off the fuel supply in an engine out forced landing.
I haven’t read the entire threads lately but one has to ask is the process entirely mechanical to shut off the 787s engines, or could it be done electrically by another component, or even by means of hacking? Did the air crew reactivate or toggle, the shutoffs in the hope of...
Even on a single engine Cessna, one of the checklist procedures, is to shut off the fuel supply in an engine out forced landing.
I haven’t read the entire threads lately but one has to ask is the process entirely mechanical to shut off the 787s engines, or could it be done electrically by another component, or even by means of hacking? Did the air crew reactivate or toggle, the shutoffs in the hope of the power loss wawas an inversely wired situation of some odd sort and thus they remained in the off position until the crash?
The obvious, scenario is looking damning, but as investigations goes all scenarios have to be examined and for me this creates more questions than what is answered.
Autonomous flying is actually much easier than autonomous driving. Do we really need all these expensive pilots? Ground-based "pilots" can monitor and intervene in cases of emergency.
Autonomous flying is also an easy way for all the blame to fall on the aircraft manufacturers. It is at Boeing’s and Airbus’s interest to delay this eventuality as much as they can
Tony,
Autonomous flights are as common today as keyboard warriors. However, none are flown with paying passengers and how many passengers would actually board a pilotless aircraft?
It is easy to forget that on most commercial flights the bulk of the flight time is undertaken using Autopilot and while flying at high altitude.
Take off and landing is also possible under the control of a grounded pilot. Think military drones, etc.
...
Tony,
Autonomous flights are as common today as keyboard warriors. However, none are flown with paying passengers and how many passengers would actually board a pilotless aircraft?
It is easy to forget that on most commercial flights the bulk of the flight time is undertaken using Autopilot and while flying at high altitude.
Take off and landing is also possible under the control of a grounded pilot. Think military drones, etc.
Now think about US Airways Flight 1549, multiple bird strike, Hudson River, incident. 155 passengers and crew owe their lives to the split second reactions of those humans on the flight deck. Would anyone care to speculate the outcome had no humans been present?
Which airline wants to be the first to convince passengers to fly autonomously. Look how hard it is to convince people with cars. Second, one thing I can guarantee is that companies look solely at technical solutions but only 1 in a 10, 000 companies actually spend time on real security. That autonomous plane can easily be turned into a weapon by a 16 year old. I've done enough IT security in my years to...
Which airline wants to be the first to convince passengers to fly autonomously. Look how hard it is to convince people with cars. Second, one thing I can guarantee is that companies look solely at technical solutions but only 1 in a 10, 000 companies actually spend time on real security. That autonomous plane can easily be turned into a weapon by a 16 year old. I've done enough IT security in my years to know I DO NOT trust any company whose CEO does not possess a strong IT skill set. Boomer CEOs will ALWAYS prioritize cost, marketing and quick implementation over safe implementation.
Correction Bob, delete “Boomer” and insert “Post Boomer generations”!
To be honest, psychology examinations in aviation industry is a joke. It is only done in medical and normally it is like talk about yourself and a question about if you are suicidal and if you have any suicidal history in your family, answer both of them no and you pass.
The issue is no pilot will ever tell the truth because if you say yes to anything, they will revoke your medical and put...
To be honest, psychology examinations in aviation industry is a joke. It is only done in medical and normally it is like talk about yourself and a question about if you are suicidal and if you have any suicidal history in your family, answer both of them no and you pass.
The issue is no pilot will ever tell the truth because if you say yes to anything, they will revoke your medical and put you on leave. The punishment is too harsh and it does not give you room to monitor or help you get through it. Yes the answer is better take preventive measures because that prevents anything from happening but if your preventive measure forces someone off a job whether temporarily or permanently, everyone will keep dodging the truth.
It is very flawed and outdated how it currently works.
What's the alternative? if an airline allows a pilot that raises a red flag to continue flying, can you imagine all the lawsuits and the PR disaster they would find themselves in if word got out? Flawed as it is, I just don't see another viable way.
I agree with you but it is just a very scary reality because this is a double edged sword. It is one of my deepest fear when flying, I just don’t know the person I am working next to is in the right state of mind to fly a plane.
I also worry this incident will give any possible suicidal pilots more ideas to crash a plane. This managed to be very convenient and easy...
I agree with you but it is just a very scary reality because this is a double edged sword. It is one of my deepest fear when flying, I just don’t know the person I am working next to is in the right state of mind to fly a plane.
I also worry this incident will give any possible suicidal pilots more ideas to crash a plane. This managed to be very convenient and easy because there is not enough altitude to recover and besides if it was done at cruising altitude, Indian carriers have procedures to have a cabin crew inside the flight deck.
Don’t know anything about airline protocols, but in the disease I study - frontotemporal dementia - people who have it also usually have anosognosia, which means they are unaware that they actually have a very serious disorder. Anyone who questions their behavior is accused of having a problem. The disease tends to strike people in their 50s, but can hit earlier or later.
Perhaps airlines should be more receptive to people who admit to...
Don’t know anything about airline protocols, but in the disease I study - frontotemporal dementia - people who have it also usually have anosognosia, which means they are unaware that they actually have a very serious disorder. Anyone who questions their behavior is accused of having a problem. The disease tends to strike people in their 50s, but can hit earlier or later.
Perhaps airlines should be more receptive to people who admit to a little anxiety or depression/sadness or some temporary troubles, and instead be on the lookout for behaviors that are unusual and uncharacteristic.
I would ask about insomnia and severe sleep disturbances. I would also want to know from OTHER people about:
- change in personality
- loss of interest in spouse, family
- sudden divorce after decades of marriage
- loss of interest in hobbies
- loss of humor or change in sense of humor
- inability to detect sarcasm or understand metaphor or proverbs ( which can be done subtly in a quick meeting)
- feverishly working out, or in contrast, retreating to a bedroom or basement and watching TV/playing games all day
- new swearing habit
- fits of rage/ bouts of euphoria/ crying jags
- motor stereotypy such as pacing, tapping foot, clapping, rubbing knee, etc., or maybe a verbal stereotypy such as repeating a stock phrase or a new whistling or humming habit
- new porn habit, starting an affair or hiring prostitutes
- wild spending, bad investments
The new behaviors will start gradually.
Wouldn’t hurt to also give a quick clock-drawing test.
I think the reason they may ask if a person in the family committed suicide is because a small percentage is genetic. They should probably also ask if a relative in midlife unexpectedly committed a crime, went bankrupt, went through a shock divorce, became “eccentric,” or was diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder.
What's the probability of BOTH switches being turned off accidentally (or by themselves), nearly simultaneously (but not exactly simultaneously)? Infinitesimally close to zero.
as much as those that want to stop others from coming to conclusions, those chances are next to zero even if they are accidently moved.
remember also that the first officer was the flying pilot so the captain - who had far more time as a pilot and in the 787 - was the monitoring pilot. The chances of someone with captain level of experience accidently moving 2 switches is even smaller.
Note also...
as much as those that want to stop others from coming to conclusions, those chances are next to zero even if they are accidently moved.
remember also that the first officer was the flying pilot so the captain - who had far more time as a pilot and in the 787 - was the monitoring pilot. The chances of someone with captain level of experience accidently moving 2 switches is even smaller.
Note also that the AAIB report notes that there is an aviation psychologist as part of the investigation team.
and to Ben's earlier point, the communications regarding the accident were well below average in the first 30 days and it will likely be even worse until a final report is released which could take over a year.
No airline or accident investigator wants to release a report that has the potential to indicate human vulnerabilities but even to suggest intentional deadly human actions.
It is also noteworthy that the first page of the report specifically notes that the purpose of the report- in accordance with international norms -is not to blame anyone or be used as the basis for assessing judgment; that will be a separate process.
India's accident investigation team is young and relied on international support including of the NTSB, Boeing and GE, the latter two of which manufactured the plane and its engines.
This is a terrible report to have to issue even in its preliminary form. The intent - as the report notes -is to figure out how to ensure these types of accidents with apparent human intention - from happening again. anywhere on earth
The only facts of this blog thread is that it is presenting the armchair aviation ’perts, an opportunity to squabble like demented children as the investigation findings emerge.
For goodness sake grow up the lot of you, stop acting like that child Bad_Krap_Arps and wait for the investigation to be completed.
Is Lucky going to apologise publicly for calling out the Indian investigators for being too slow and trying to hide something?
A decent man would apologize for their hasty (and wrong) accusations.
Therefore, we can safely preclude an apology.
@ UncleRonnie -- I don't think that's a fair criticism. I never called them out for being too slow or trying to hide something. I figured they'd release the preliminary report within 30 days, as that's an internationally required standard.
I called them out for not communicating transparently following the accident, as is typically standards with accident investigators.
They seem to have found the answer, so can we all agree that the yoga sessions were a good idea?
@ UncleRonnie -- Hah, we might have to agree to disagree. Again, I never in any way questioned the investigation as such, but rather the lack of communication, and the importance of it. I also wouldn't say they've "found the answer." They've analyzed the basic data so far, but it'll be a long time before they actually find the answer as to what caused this crash, and what action can be taken to prevent such an event in the future.
They have kept Boeing, GE, FAA and investigators from US, UK, Canada and Portugal in the loop from the start. Those are the people actually need to be communicated with before the preliminary report. Not a travel blogger and his audience lol. By the way the report is far more extensive than what is normally provided/expected as well.
Lucky/Ben/Whoever,
Why do you allow such unabashedly bigoted and racist reactions in your comments? Have a modicum of self-respect and ethics and police your comments section better for your many loyal readers who dont come here for the trash. Didn't you recently write a report on the state of the travel blogging industry? I guess you left out a key point in your own strategy - deliberately letting racist, jobless rabble-rousers through the gates...
Lucky/Ben/Whoever,
Why do you allow such unabashedly bigoted and racist reactions in your comments? Have a modicum of self-respect and ethics and police your comments section better for your many loyal readers who dont come here for the trash. Didn't you recently write a report on the state of the travel blogging industry? I guess you left out a key point in your own strategy - deliberately letting racist, jobless rabble-rousers through the gates just to squeeze out that extra bit of engagement. Pathetic
I used to read everyday but it’s literally for this reason that I don’t anymore. The comment section on his posts can be so full of ignorance. And then the reporting on certain news that brings them out like bees looking for honey
@Lovian....Absolutely true and couldn't agree more with you!
@AG
I've said it before and I'll say it once more: he wants this sort of negative stuff and thrives on the turmoil because he makes 'click' money from it. Moreover, he deliberately frames his posts in a way to enable such disgusting racist/bigoted reactions. Case in point: his previous post on this same crash which basically accused AAIB (for which read Indians) of not keeping the public informed and focusing on doing yoga instead....
@AG
I've said it before and I'll say it once more: he wants this sort of negative stuff and thrives on the turmoil because he makes 'click' money from it. Moreover, he deliberately frames his posts in a way to enable such disgusting racist/bigoted reactions. Case in point: his previous post on this same crash which basically accused AAIB (for which read Indians) of not keeping the public informed and focusing on doing yoga instead. He even put a picture of a yoga session at the AAIB.
@John...couldnt agree more with you!
How I wish there were more people like you here
@ AG -- I went to sleep shortly after publishing this post, and I've cleaned up this thread first thing after waking up. If you see posts you have an issue with, hitting the "Report" button helps me deal with them. Yes, sometimes things absolutely do slip through the cracks, but I have a big issue with these comments as well. So please report them, and I'll do what I can.
Where is the "Report" button?
@ Tom -- Anyone who is logged into their account (rather than posting as a guest) should see the option next to the "Helpful" and "Reply" buttons.
Couldnt agree more with you
You make it sound like the pilots cut off deliberately. Quite sad. There is ample evidence to say that if something went wrong, it was probably Boeing’s doing.
Every year there is a new problem with some of the other Boeing, being racists towards Indians in comments won’t help anyone.
China Eastern, Egypt Air, German Wings, Malaysian, Air India, and the averted Alaska flight. No one is calling on it being an "Indian thing." It's a mental health problem that is affecting pilots around the world and needs to be addressed globally. It's reaching the point where it is a crisis.
Below is the list from Wikipedia of likely pilot murder/suicides on Commerical Airliners, with country of airlines and pilot, and number of deaths.
(Japan in brackets because other flight crew fought back so only a minority of passengers died)
Does not support anybody claiming only happens to poor/Muslim/Asian/non-western countries.
Nothing yet in the Americas or FSU, although Fedex 705 in 1994 was a thwarted attack by off-duty pilot.
But for General...
Below is the list from Wikipedia of likely pilot murder/suicides on Commerical Airliners, with country of airlines and pilot, and number of deaths.
(Japan in brackets because other flight crew fought back so only a minority of passengers died)
Does not support anybody claiming only happens to poor/Muslim/Asian/non-western countries.
Nothing yet in the Americas or FSU, although Fedex 705 in 1994 was a thwarted attack by off-duty pilot.
But for General Aviation pilot suicides are mostly in the USA (which has many more such aircraft)
If the USA can learn from these Commercial cases before one happens there, it would be good.
1982 Japan (24)
1994 Morocco 44
1997 Indonesia 104
1999 Egypt 217
2013 Mozambique 33
2014 Malaysia 239
2015 Germany 150
2022 China 132
2025 India 260
As I read the article, I do not come away with a sense that Ben makes it "sound like the pilots cut off deliberately." He does say -- as the investigators seem to say -- that the switches did not move due to an equipment fault but rather an action of one of the pilots. But, it doesn't say that such action was intentional. He does say that we still have a mystery, which includes the potential of an intentional act.
Why leave out the part about the 2018 SAIB on the 737, which has the same cutoff switches as the 787?
Notably, investigators say the FAA issued a special airworthiness information bulletin (SAIB) in December 2018 regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch-locking feature on 737-family jets.
“The fuel control switch design, including the locking feature, is similar on various Boeing airplane models”, including Dreamliners, they say. ”As per the information from Air India, the suggested inspections were not carried out as the SAIB was advisory and not mandatory.”
Notably, investigators say the FAA issued a special airworthiness information bulletin (SAIB) in December 2018 regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch-locking feature on 737-family jets.
“The fuel control switch design, including the locking feature, is similar on various Boeing airplane models”, including Dreamliners, they say. ”As per the information from Air India, the suggested inspections were not carried out as the SAIB was advisory and not mandatory.”
Not sure if you're trolling, have some sort of axe to grind against people who aren't necessarily Caucasian, or if you just genuinely believe that non-U.S. carriers aren't interested in either making money or having their planes and passengers arrive safely.
They weren't "aviators." They were certified pilots.
Essmeier, So!
“Certified Pilots” are not “Aviators”?
I will respond by repeating a commonly used word which you will undoubtedly understand …. Balderdash!
Hope you police this thread for racism better than the last post's comment section. And also if you read the report it is very thorough for a 30 day post-accident initial report. Maybe this will cause some of the online travel bloggers obsessed with website content to revise their opinion of the AAIB?
@Andrew_M
We can live in hope. But we both know how he runs his blog: push credit cards, manufacture drama (e.g. his previous post whinging about supposed lack of communication from AAIB), stir up politics while maintaining plausible deniability, then sit back and watch the lemmings click click click. Bloggers need money because they don't have real jobs.
You have such a low opinion of Ben. That is too bad. He is clearly one of the good guys. Perhaps your comments reflect more about you.
@John if you don't like One Mile at a Time then you're free to not read it.
Andrew and John, I don't speak for Lucky, but generally when I don't like a blogger, I stop reading....
Totally agree with you John
@ John -- I see you're basically just leaving comment after comment about how terrible I am. May I recommend instead putting the effort into reporting comments that you see, so that I can delete them?
I'm not sure what else to tell you, but if your concern is with racism being on the blog (what I agree with you on), then please report those comments, and I'll do what I can to delete them.
@ Andrew_M -- If you see racist comments, please report them, as I delete what I can, but sometimes I miss things.
seems likely to me that the pilot that asked "why" was probably the one that actually flipped the switches, that would make it less obvious to others that they were the actual culprit.
For all of the great advances made in aviation safety and designs it seems that engineers now need to look at the last piece of the puzzle. That is how to design planes that make pilot suicide more difficult to achieve. Egypt Air, German Wings, China Eastern, Malaysian, Air India. A significant portion of the lives lost in the airline industry over the past 25 years have been a result of pilot suicide. That is...
For all of the great advances made in aviation safety and designs it seems that engineers now need to look at the last piece of the puzzle. That is how to design planes that make pilot suicide more difficult to achieve. Egypt Air, German Wings, China Eastern, Malaysian, Air India. A significant portion of the lives lost in the airline industry over the past 25 years have been a result of pilot suicide. That is chilling.
Though the aircraft was recovered, the Alaska flight recently mixed in with these also shows that there is no specific culture or demographic. Asia, Europe, North America, Middle East. Depression knows no borders and the danger of this can be anywhere. It's impossible to identify every single case of severe depression in pilots. With that, we need to design better systems to allow for what is clearly the most significant danger left with flying today.
Including the fact that in several cases it was the captain in charge, so CRM needs to include sometimes not just the captain listening, but the junior insisting.
Interestingly it seems the FO was PF in this case. Regardless, it was questioned but they had seconds. There was no time for challenges beyond that. It was a perfectly orchestrated suicide in which there could be no recovery and CRM is meaningless.
“… though in reality, it raises more questions than answers.”
Not really. While no cause has been confirmed, this eliminates MANY armchair aviator theories floating around the blogosphere. It wasn’t contaminated fuel, it wasn’t a bird strike, it wasn’t engine failure, it wasn’t wrong flap settings, it wasn’t a missile or bomb and it wasn’t sabotage (well, maybe that’s still undetermined).
Despite remaining unanswered questions, and the trite characterization in the post, many important early...
“… though in reality, it raises more questions than answers.”
Not really. While no cause has been confirmed, this eliminates MANY armchair aviator theories floating around the blogosphere. It wasn’t contaminated fuel, it wasn’t a bird strike, it wasn’t engine failure, it wasn’t wrong flap settings, it wasn’t a missile or bomb and it wasn’t sabotage (well, maybe that’s still undetermined).
Despite remaining unanswered questions, and the trite characterization in the post, many important early possibilities have been ruled out.
The first mystery if it was pilot suicide is how the switches went back on - would one not expect the perpetrator to prevent that?
The perp can't openly prevent that if he wants to pretend like he wasn't intentionally crashing the plane. He can only create a situation where it was near impossible to recover, and this was the case.
Given the safeguards built into the mechanism for those two switches, wouldn't the second pilot have noticed the first pilot reaching for one, then immediately operating the other? That kind of movement---especially in quick succession---would typically trigger instinctive concern or at least a question from the observing pilot.
Interestingly, Boeing stock rose about 2% in the minutes following the release of the preliminary report. Granted, the increase came during after-hours trading, just before most...
Given the safeguards built into the mechanism for those two switches, wouldn't the second pilot have noticed the first pilot reaching for one, then immediately operating the other? That kind of movement---especially in quick succession---would typically trigger instinctive concern or at least a question from the observing pilot.
Interestingly, Boeing stock rose about 2% in the minutes following the release of the preliminary report. Granted, the increase came during after-hours trading, just before most of the trading shut down for the weekend.
the report says that the FO was the pilot flying and the Captain was the observing.
The voices will be matched to each of the pilots, including who asked about the switches being moved and the pilot that responded that they didn't do it.
The switches are also designed to make a unique sound which can be heard on the cockpit voice recorder.
and the amount of time until a full report is issued will leave enormous doubt in the minds of consumers.
They are not "designed" to make a unique sound, though it is likely that the sound of their actuation will be audible on the CVR if they were mechanically activated. Who activated them and why will not be obvious from the CVR, though.
Pilot suicide or poor piss lackluster piloting training standards????
There was no one flying in the jump seat, as far as we know, right?
It's never been made clear. Seems not. However, doesn't really matter as in the 787 that seat is further back and would require a noticeable effort to get to the switches.
Regardless, you would think. there'd be a big red light underneath to indicate CUTOFF ... even if there was a fire and the engine was shut off in high altitude, you would think the pilot should get a visual clue as a reminder ...
if the switches are activated, bright red messages appear on the 787's cockpit screens.
the 787 also immediately attempts to restart the engines and the APU when fuel is restored. The report says this happened on this flight - but it all took place too close to the ground.
Wow the pilot said to the other why do you cut off the fuel.
Obsolete technology improvements.
1. Planes should have cockpit video recording the entire flight. Until 2.
2. Remove humans from controls.
To be clear, can the plane takeoff somehow if they had been in the off position on the ground? In other words, I assume they would need to allow fuel to the engine to take off at all, right?
If so, how can it be anything but intentional?
Didn’t know the orange buffon in the white house is an Indian. He meets 3 of your 4 requirements.
@Ole
He is a close friend with the current Indian PM, so that must be why?
There are three possibilities:
1) Switches turned off by human on purpose to down the plane.
2) Switches turned off by human accident.
3) Switches somehow turned off mechanically.
But, in reality, #3 seems exceedingly unlikely, and it's very hard to imagine how #2 could happen.
Agreed. The reality is for a mechanical or accidental issue to happen exactly at the only critical moment where it would create this scenario is far too crazy. This was orchestrated at the precise moment needed to take the plane down. The only moment it could.
That could be an important observation. Cutting the fuel on BOTH engines while still so close to the ground ensured a crash scenario, any later the plane would have gained enough altitude to restart the engines and recover.
Only #1 is possible. You can't accidentally move the switch as there's a detent that requires the pilot to squeeze both side of the switch lift and push on or off. It's either suicide or terrorist.
I almost agree, but I'll add:
4) Switches somehow turned off electonically - accidental, or hacked.
5) Some inteference with the switches on the ground so that they switched off as the aircraft gained altitude.
Either left almost off (possibly accidentally by a cleaner, but more likely deliberate) or some nefarious device inserted underneath after the safety mechanism had been removed.
I agree that 1) seems the most likely, but terrorists...
I almost agree, but I'll add:
4) Switches somehow turned off electonically - accidental, or hacked.
5) Some inteference with the switches on the ground so that they switched off as the aircraft gained altitude.
Either left almost off (possibly accidentally by a cleaner, but more likely deliberate) or some nefarious device inserted underneath after the safety mechanism had been removed.
I agree that 1) seems the most likely, but terrorists (Pakistani ones hate India) can be pretty inventive.
Would be consistent with the no publicly announced inspections.
A lot a places are tiptoeing around the issue, but at this point, it's not unreasonable to question if suicide/deliberate sabotage have entered the equation. Guess we won't find out until the final report, but man that would be devastating.
This would eclipse Egyptair 990. :(
Novel way to intentionally bring a plane down, immediately after takeoff off. Heretofore all suicidal pilots crashed their planes from cruising altitudes.
My thoughts as well. An intentional saboteur might have waited. It's difficult to delve into a sick mind, but at 600 feet, it was possible more could have been saved.
It was the only moment it was critical. More speed and height and the plane could have been recovered. In fact, in the report it notes that the engines were spooling back four seconds later when the fuel switches were turned back on. If they had just a few more seconds, a little more speed, and a few hundred feet more they probably would have made it.
I wonder if they'll recover flight sim data from either of the pilot's computers, showing they tested multiple time to see before which point they needed to cut off fuel to make sure the plane could not recover in time.
It could be gross incompetence, but I suspect one of the pilots is a killer.
India is such a sorry country. I have been there on business a few times and don't like going there. There doesn't seem to be a graffiti problem, possibly because they don't like to buy spray paint.
Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, us AVGeeks will most likely be getting more content on Mayday: Air Disaster from the Haneda Runway collision and the mid-air collision earlier this year, to this.
I suspected a dual engine flameout caused by fuel starvation from the beginning. And, sadly I suspected human error or human intent. The only question is the same one the pilot on the controls asked. ‘Why?’
I was just reading about the report. It does say, the second switch moved to CUTOFF within 1 second of the other. Based on where they are located and how they operate, is it humanly possible?
Yes with 2 hands they Can be operated simultaneously
Speculation would be irresponsible. None of us is an expert in this domain.
That won't stop complete and total morons from chiming in, just watch this comment section.
Yep. You can hold you breath until the doof who's always yapping about "replace humans in the cockpit!" with some nonexistent automated piloting tech, puts in an appearance.
Read attached article so you might want to separate yourself from the logo of
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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/07/10/trump-law-firms-deals-mess-column-00445259
Personally, I have no positive perception and kind words for lawyers. But I admire those who fight back against the biggest bully and law breaking president in the US
history and the world. Especially when the Office of the Presidency is deceptively
regarded...
Read attached article so you might want to separate yourself from the logo of
your beloved and cherished law firm. It has nothing to do with your comment
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/07/10/trump-law-firms-deals-mess-column-00445259
Personally, I have no positive perception and kind words for lawyers. But I admire those who fight back against the biggest bully and law breaking president in the US
history and the world. Especially when the Office of the Presidency is deceptively
regarded as the " the leader of the free world".
25 comments, uploaded two hours ago, yet you have 22 likes already.
Seems not suspicious at all.
@Mason
22 likes in 2 hours would be a record! Yup, totally NOT suspicious ;)
Bad_Krap_Arps …. give it up child, your ego has no place outside of your perambulator.
With every post you make yourself look more susceptible to be removed to the lunatic asylum.
glad for the late article for you and notable that India released this in the middle of the night there.
The 787's flight monitors immediately display bright red warnings if the fuel switches are turned off which is why the one pilot asked.
You can bet the phase of the investigation is not focused heavily on the pilots and any reasons why either of them would do this.
What seems certain is that...
glad for the late article for you and notable that India released this in the middle of the night there.
The 787's flight monitors immediately display bright red warnings if the fuel switches are turned off which is why the one pilot asked.
You can bet the phase of the investigation is not focused heavily on the pilots and any reasons why either of them would do this.
What seems certain is that there was no involuntary movement of the switches.
and, as I said before, Air India's huge international expansion looks very cloudy.
Thanks for the conclusion. I guess, we should inform AAIB, FAA, Boeing and GE not to bother with their investigation. Mr. Tim Dunn has identified the root cause.
as I noted soon after this happened, Boeing and GE both knew within hours that the fuel flow switches were cutoff.
As Ben notes, there were no required inspections of 787 switches outside of India and no service bulletins from either Boeing or GE.
The report was released in the middle of the night without a press conference.
It doesn't take a whole lot of gray matter to conclude that the switches were...
as I noted soon after this happened, Boeing and GE both knew within hours that the fuel flow switches were cutoff.
As Ben notes, there were no required inspections of 787 switches outside of India and no service bulletins from either Boeing or GE.
The report was released in the middle of the night without a press conference.
It doesn't take a whole lot of gray matter to conclude that the switches were moved by humans.
as I also said, there have been pilot suicide/ murder by aircraft and this was going to be one of the easiest to solve.
I will gladly admit I was wrong if someone proves that it wasn't human action - either one of the assigned pilots to that flight or someone else in the cockpit - but I don't think I will have to be apologizing to anyone
Why don’t you worry about how to spin Delta’s planned unbundling of Delta One. Everything else beyond your intelligence.
I will never understand why some of you people whine so much about this dude, but then when he actually stays on topic and contributes accordingly, YOUR dumb asses start to bring up Delta. Get a life.
His dumb ass concluded this as an intentional downing and that’s an issue. The report doesn’t indicate that. It is the most plausible explanation BUT it is NOT confirmed yet and that’s where I have an issue with him. Every time he acts like an ass, I’d call him out.
Rather than calling out others, tell him stop being an ass.
To be fair, Tim said "no involuntary movement" as opposed to "intentional movement." By "no involuntary movement," he might mean the switches did not move as a result of mechanical failure, excess vibration, etc. That is, a human had to move them. And, that is what investigators have concluded.
Ole is clearly ticked that someone else can think and do it faster than him.
Since this report was released - which coincided with national news broadcasts in the US - multiple aviation experts have said it is nearly impossible to accidently flip these two switches within 1 second of each other.
and Sarthak, below, ONE SECOND. that was time between when the two switches were moved from run to cutoff.
The return...
Ole is clearly ticked that someone else can think and do it faster than him.
Since this report was released - which coincided with national news broadcasts in the US - multiple aviation experts have said it is nearly impossible to accidently flip these two switches within 1 second of each other.
and Sarthak, below, ONE SECOND. that was time between when the two switches were moved from run to cutoff.
The return of those switches to their normal position 10 seconds later took 4 seconds between each switch.
the switches are designed to be difficult to accidently move. You have to pull it out and then move it.
Seems you don’t understand the difference between plausible and conclusion. I never said, this was accidental or there was a malfunction. But, unlike you, I also didn’t conclude this was intentional. A smart doesn’t jump to conclusions. Lack of evidence is not evidence AND Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I do not think it seems certain that involuntary movement can be ruled out with such few details. In fact, in that situation neither AI nor Boeing would be incentivized for anyone to know.
There's no way it moves involuntarily. The switch has a detent and is spring loaded. You have to squeeze the sides of the switch, lift up and over to whichever position you want it to go. It can only be done intentionally. It's designed that way for obvious reasons.
I guess I more or less picture how conceptually the fuel switch is designed to work but would like to know more how it operates in practice. For example, is the switch engaged (set to Run) based solely on position, or is there an electrical connection that must also occur once the locking mechanism is set. So in the case of the former, one could picture each switch pulled up and positioned to the Run...
I guess I more or less picture how conceptually the fuel switch is designed to work but would like to know more how it operates in practice. For example, is the switch engaged (set to Run) based solely on position, or is there an electrical connection that must also occur once the locking mechanism is set. So in the case of the former, one could picture each switch pulled up and positioned to the Run position at engine startup but possibly not being mechanically locked in place. Then during the takeoff sequence vibration causes the "unlocked" switch to settle back to the Cutoff position ... possibly even locking in place at that point ... one second apart. Without any pilot intervention.