Former United Employee Sues Marriott For Getting Him Fired

@steve

You failed big time to keep it real.
If you took a few minutes to read all the posts you’ll see people insulted me personally for my “opinion.” It is my “response” to them that doesn’t go down well with folks like you.

Why are you taking it so personal? Guilty conscience? That’s your problem.

Sorry if I distracted you with the truth but it’s not about me. It’s about Jonathon. And the truth is you don’t know what happened.

My wife of 31 years and my two grown children find it hilarious that you’ve painted me as Jonathon’s F*** Buddy.
What a class act you’re not. My gay and lesbian friends are rolling on the floor laughing at your ignorance. You’ve proved my point better than anybody so far. Thank you!

There are a few cowards on this blog.
I predict you’re the next. Every time I’ve called bullshit on them they squirm and quiver like gagging maggots in a garbage can and disappear off the blog never to come back and respond.

Why?

They fear sunlight and disinfectant. It’s a short life span for them if I’m around. They either die in their own pus or move on to another garbage can.

Which type will you be?

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

Jimmy Mack,...with all due respect, you do hurl insults , singling people out. Try reading forums/ threads such as this one as a way for people to simply express opinions without confrontation. You might enjoy it! I personally enjoy reading a variety of opinions. I find your extreme “vested” interest in this matter to be a bit obsessive, as you’ve returned to this conversation on numerous occasions to make personal attacks. It makes me wonder if you are the unnamed “gentleman” friend, a family member, or just a “F*** buddy?” Then, I guess I would understand why you are so passionate about an article that most of us are commenting on based on the hypothetical, ( with little to no facts), but you seem to have access and privy to facts about this story that are not found in this article for us to read. The fact that you keep returning to this thread really makes me wonder what exactly is your “vested” interest?
Just keeping it real...Steve

I’m still confused on when and where he was tested and when he was confirmed positive. Details are sketchy and it’s none of my business but did he fly that last trip infected? Was it determined he was positive while he was away, and United waited until he returned to Newark? That would be irresponsible of United.

Im told International crews were quarantined in place wherever they were once the airline determined who was exposed. I’ve heard of one airline in Texas where Covid broke out in the training center and folks were told days after they’d been exposed. Half of them were already out flying.

I also know of one who was told in Hawaii he’d been exposed at training. They let him work the flight back! 4 days later he nearly died in intensive care. They made him use his sick time.

What about the rest of Jonathon’s crew? And the passengers on his flight? Did United alert all of them they may have been exposed? We’re they made to quarantine as well?

United is not off the hook here by any stretch in this saga. Neither is Marriott.

Anybody want to work for an airline these days?

Come fly with me. Come fly, come fly away.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

@Chet

You really need to read up on the story before you invent your own version of it. He wasn’t on a layover.
OK? I’ll say it again. He wasn’t on a layover. Everybody got that part?
It might be the only fact we know for sure. Nobody lays over in Wilmington, DE that I know of. Great town. No layovers.

He was on a mandated 14-day quarantine by his ungrateful employer who likely got him sick in the first place. Nobody remembers this now but in the beginning of the outbreak flight attendants were being disciplined for wearing a mask in the cabin!!

Let that sink in y’all.

There are at least 3000 known flight attendants who’ve contracted Covid at work. Over 20 dead now. If Jonathon had died in that hotel would anybody here know about it?

Maybe Lefty knows who the latest one was. He’s on it I’m sure. I hope he doesn’t invade anybody’s privacy this time.

@Tspesrs

I just want to remind you that you don’t have both sides. Unless you’ve spoken with Jonathon?

Whatever you’re “reading between the lines” no one else sees. It is not reality and the end of your post is pure fiction. Get the facts. Stop guessing. Stop smearing.

The only influence of alcohol here just might be you.

How’s it feel to get smeared by a complete stranger?

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

We don’t know all the facts,...but if he was on a layover, he is definitely on company time, therefore, his termination is more than justified. During the height of COVID19...hotels do have an obligation to report those who violate quarantine. Many hotels implemented a o e time key access inorder to make it more difficult to break the rules. Our society has become one that rules don’t apply to oneself,... and the attitude that “it’s my right” is a bigger pandemic than COVID19.

It's tough to tell with both sides having different stories...

I doubt Marriott would go out of their way to target a random FA staying, but if he was booked under the United group rate, and was misbehaving, then it makes sense to let UA know. He is representing UA when he's staying there, and is getting a steep discount for the partnership.

Reading between the lines a bit, it seemed like he may have tried to get special treatment for his status, which he wasn't eligible for, and then potentially wasn't following the hotel/airline quarantine requirements... I'm guessing him having a date, throwing things, and blocking exits probably means there was alcohol involved.

This former employee has ZERO case against Marriott. They did not tell United to fire him. The ONLY way a hotel knows where you are employed is if you are using your connection to them for a discount OR they are paying for it. Once that happens, Marriott is well within their rights to contact an unruly guest.
The other thing I think is forgotten here, is what does Marriott have to gain from lying? The behaviour was so bad the manager had to take time from their day to contact United because of it. The idea that the manager wanted to kick out a guest for no reason or just for shits and giggles is stupid.
Finally, I have lived this exact situation when traveling for my company. Out corporate offices have a contract for rooms at a hotel near the offices. While in town for a training many employees think it is party time away from home on the company dime. Many drink way too much and come to the training hung over or barely able to stay away. One of the guys in a session I attended several years ago got drunk in the hotel bar. He decided to make a complete ass of himself and was inappropriate with a server. The hotel sent a ,message to our HR department and that guy was no longer employed the next day. I actually was required to give a statement on what I saw of his behaviour. So YES, when they pay, you follow THEIR rules.

@Jon

That phrase caught my eye as well.

“Blocking emergency exits” is an airline term and not a hotel term. Flight attendants are trained to make sure the exit is safe and operable if that moment should ever arise. You don’t send people to an exit that won’t work for some reason. There’s not a lot of time to determine why or how to “fix” the problem so the exit gets “blocked” and folks get re-directed to other exits.

At hotels, exits are commonly referred to as “Fire Escapes”

Some hotel guests, like me, might use the fire escape staircase rather than wait for a slow elevator. Possibly that dude used something to keep a certain exit open and available to leave and re-enter on his own. Possibly... we don’t know. He would need to answer for that if it’s the case.
Doesn’t sound like a capital crime to me, but it’s wrong to tamper with their property.

But I would think a hotel like Marriott has seen that move before and there’s a better way to address that with a guest than destroying someone’s career.

I’m just curious to learn if Marriott calls or emails the employers of all its unruly guests. Or is that only deployed on airline employees?

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

@Jose
I’m beginning to lose all hope in you. I thought maybe a sliver of rationality would seep into that troubled brain of yours, but each of your lovely posts reveal you’re incapable of self-reflection.

Your first post started like this:

Jose May 20
“...@James P McGovern, the US has many idiots like you that is the reason why so many people got infected...”

And later: “...@James P McGovern, allow me to make you realize how dumb you are...”

And one more: “..,@James P McGovern... starting to get out of your parents basement or pay rent, don’t forget to take responsibility of cleaning the toilet bowl instead of having your parents do it for you...”

Hell you’ve even got me at the January 6th insurrection as a Trumper!!

Who knew you were so eloquent and charming and all-knowing? Such a compassionate guy too!

All this because I stated my view on Marriott’s role in this. That clearly struck a nerve with you and you haven’t slept since.

Don’t you wonder how that flight attendant is sleeping these days? The guy went to work one day and contracted the virus. Ten days later he’s unemployed after 20 years with the airline because Marriott employees felt uncomfortable around him and wanted him gone. They got sick of dealing with him. Clearly they knew why he was there and assumed, wrongly, that United was paying. Oops!! Better call the lawyers.

I want to assure you right now that when this is over your beloved Marriott will be just fine. So will United Airlines. They may have to cut a big check at settlement with this guy who as you insist is “...roaming around infecting people...” Gee, I wonder who roamed around and infected the flight attendant? Was it you Jose?

Again, nobody knows what really happened at the hotel but when the Marriott employees finally get deposed by the plaintiff’s attorney you may need a big towel to wipe the egg off your face. Send us a picture, please.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

@jeff shilling

I just read your earlier post and thanks for the legal insight. As an attorney could you elaborate further on your opinion that “... I do not believe, especially a flight attendant, has a right to privacy when their conduct is public...”

Why “especially a flight attendant?”

Do you apply your standard to other occupations, or only flight attendants?
What is it about the occupation that leads you to conclude that a flight attendant is not entitled to privacy rights?

That’s an interesting position particularly when this alleged incident apparently did not happen on an airplane or in an airport. In fact it likely didn’t happen “in public” at all.

I could be wrong but I don’t think Marriott considers their property as a “public place” such as a playground or a park or an airport. Their bellhops and doormen seem to do a great job keeping the drifters and homeless off their property. As a guest we expect that. In essence, a hotel protects our privacy as we stay on their property.

If Marriott now claims (under duress of litigation) that their hotels are public places that would surely be a convenient change of stripes, eh?

A hotel lobby can be a busy place with their guests, but that shouldn’t imply it’s a “public place.” I can’t walk in there off the street and unfurl my sleeping bag next to the piano.

I’m not picking a fight. Just seeking some clarification on how you arrived on your position regarding flight attendants and their privacy.

I have a suspicion other attorneys would disagree with you.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

@JBrit

Just imagine for a minute if flight attendants could call or email the employers of some of the wack jobs they encounter every day.

Here’s an idea: Let’s gather everybody’s employer info before the flight and put everybody’s livelihood on the line and hold them all accountable for their behavior on the flight, just as people do to flight attendants, or gate agents.

Might just even the playing field a bit and make it a better experience for all.

What goes around comes around.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

As a very long time hotel manager, I was always appauled at how abusive SOME (not all) airline crews would be when they did overnights at the hotel. Some crew members never ceased to amaze me about their bad behavior and bad attitudes. SOME....NOT ALL!

I too had to get on the phone many times to report bad behavior to the operations people at various airlines. ( interestingly only domestic airlines...the international crews NEVER gave us issues. The international crews were always polite and well behaved.)

So again.. I'm not surprised if Marriott's version of the events are deemed accurate. I bet our Marriott friends only reported the behavior as a last resort and didn't take the issues allegedly observed lightly. I would also hopr that their report to United was because United was billed for the room.

To all the airline crews that work hard and know that respect is a two way street , you ARE appreciated. To those of you with bad attitudes. Get over yourselves! Really!

I don't think this guy's status is relevant, but we would not allow crews to use lotalty programs. The contract rates were too low to be giving perks.

Who passed Covid onto the flight attendant? A United passenger?
Shall we find that person and arrest them for attempted murder? Or does that only apply to flight crews?

Where does it stop and compassion begin?

Might as well just rename this blog
“One Speculation At A Time”

If there’s anyone here on this blog who tested positive for Covid at their workplace, then got told to find a hotel and stay away from everybody... indefinitely I should add..., then got fired by their said employer for a set of hotel grievances that no one can factually verify... please, raise your hand.

Nobody. I didn’t think so. This guy was treated badly by his employer, and then the hotel. If he went a little stir crazy in his confinement, I can’t blame him. It’s not normal is it?

I hope he gets justice.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

Its pretty clear the most accurate comment is "we dont have all the facts".
A point no one raised is it could be argued that his behavior was caused by being sick from covid! I know when I have the flu I can be a miserable SOB. In that case termination is just wrong.
On the flip side if a person knows he has covid and is behaving in a way placing others at risk, intentionally, unecessarily, some would argue thats attempted murder.
I dont know what really happened so wont make that call.
Yeah, if you have an active infection, and cough on an 80 year old, theres a good probability theyre dead in a week.

I seriously doubt that the hotel had any deal in place to “manage” someone’s quarantine. There just a hotel and have no standing as a healthcare agent. Why would the hotel even get involved in this? If they become the “gatekeeper” they could be held responsible for someone’s behavior. Would they really want the responsibility of overseeing an individual’s behavior? Seems like the hotel has no business getting someone fired. As companies routinely stay away from giving any kind of negative reference, the hotel seems a little out on a limb to me.

Some clarifying remarks. I hope it helps.
1) Mainline United doesn't serve Wilmington, DE., so he wasn't on a layover there. I don't think Wilmington, DE is served at all, not even Express, at least not now.
2) Therefore, he was almost certainly staying on his own dime. I, too, have a Marriott Bonvoy VISA, and get Marriott points from my VISA purchases. I was Titanium at some point, now Platinum Elite.
3) When I check in at a Marriott, I always give them my Bonvoy number, layover or not. This usually gets me into their Club Lounge, and if I purchase something and charge it to my room, then I'll get some points and might get a stay.

If you use TVL code on the reservation, you don't get points. He may have been staying there on points accumulated by his Bonvoy VISA, which I have done as well.

The rest is up to litigation/speculation.

@Gray, one thing you said above, "Also curious is that the /hotel/ (well, hotel chain) is the defendant and United is not joined with a wrongful dismissal complaint."

Let me say that your comments overall were very informative, but consider that Ray is an airline employee governed by the Railway Labor Act. I believe any such "wrongful dismissal complaint" would be thrown out in civil court because the proper venue would be through the union grievance process which may ultimately end up before a System Board of Adjustment (arbitration).

@M Casey. "In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month,...". This depends on the CBA in place. Not sure about AFA, but at least one union I know ;-) determines which cases go to System Board, not the company. Moreover, usually all disciplinary cases go to SBA if not resolved through grievance at the lower levels, because if a union failed to take a disciplinary case to System Board, then the union may be liable to a Duty of Fair Representation suit, which would indeed be held in a civil court. Depending on the facts of the case, if it's not a clear-cut misconduct, of course.

As an aviation professional, it's always humorous to see how the media misreports aviation stories. This one is no different. Lots of holes and misinformation.

As a hotel manager , back up video will be witness. If the room was being paid for by United then yes, I would inform the guest that if policy wasn’t followed we would contact the person paying or ask him to find other accommodations if he was truly doing these despite policy. It is a private business and they can impose policies. These types of cases go through insurance generally.The man will get something no doubt as a settlement from insurance with or without video.

@D3kingg: while off-topic, I call B.S. on your statement: "Texas now has zero COVID deaths after re opening and ending the mask mandates two months ago." According to two major COVID tracking sites, John Hopkins and WorldoMeter, over 3,800 people have died from COVID-19 in Texas between March 19 and May 19 2021. These were real people, with real lives and real friends and families who are grieving their loss. On behalf of them, and the families and friends of the over 600,000 Americans who have died from COVID in the past 16 months, piss off.

Jose
You are right. I was wrong. You’re not the hotel guy. That was Jason. My bad.
I appreciate the pity.

However, that still makes you the idiot who suggested jailing the flight attendant for attempted murder. Thank you for reminding us who you are.

Jose, only an idiot at your level would offer a post that he “...makes more money, has a better job..., cleans toilets better...”, etc.

Are you sure you didn’t clean hotel rooms with Jason? You seem fixated on sanitation issues. When did that start? And speaking of doctors... you really should get your anger issues resolved. Not a good look for you.

Maybe Jason will help you?
Wear a mask when you go.

Keepin it real,
Jimmy Mack

Marriott employee.

They're not SUPPOSED to get Elite nights, but depending on how the payment is set up, may get them anyway. I've been yelled at by many a traveler about how "every other hotel" gives them credit.

If a company is paying for a stay and their employee is mistreating my staff and not complying with direction, being disruptive, etc., you better believe I am informing the paying party.

The hotel may be a franchise that has its own mandates at the time, it's hard to know.

Much more information is needed to draw any conclusions here.

Seems like another person acting like an a$$ during the pandemic and not being considerate to others and the local hotel manager had enough and probably had guest or employee complaints. I.e. Mr Guest if you want to be an a$$ and effect my business then I’ll do the same to you.

One alternative angle that might also have occurred. I’m sure he probably booked the room under a United employee rate which implied he was “on the job” so the hotel manager reported him. If that’s true then it makes sense. If I’m the hotel manager, I’d not want to give special rates to people who aren’t appreciative. And if I’m considering revoking the discount, I contact the company to let them know why. Once United gets a call that their special discount might be revoked, it was all downhill from there.

SD says:
May 19, 2021 at 5:53 pm

I’m still not clear on why Marriott was e-mailing United, even if United were footing the stay. If a guest/patron is exhibiting questionable behavior, it’s up to the health and/or police authorities to determine if someone is being egregiously out of line. Whether he was conducting the bad behavior or not, his employer is not the proper authority. If it wasn’t bad enough to call the cops, then why was it bad enough to tell his employer?

***********

We don't know if the cops were called or not - it's not mentioned in the law suit.

We don't know if the local health authorites were called or not - again it's not mentioned in the law suit

Absence of mention is not absence of action on those and other issues on the hotels part.

This is the claim from the employee in the lawsuit. He and his lawyer will only put into that things that will make their case look stronger.

If we ever see the reply brief you can bet your bottom $$ that they will mention if the police and / or the health authorities were called.

And the hotel informing United of any bad behaviour is of a different standard to that used by law enforcement. If say he left trash on the floor of his room or the lobby is that a crime? No it's clearly not but it would be against the standards of behaviour the hotel expects of its guests and could be against the standards United expects of its employees. There is likely something in staff contracts about not doing anything to harm United reputaion.

Perhaps the hotel contacting United was their way of trying to deal with the situation quietly - after they tried abd failed to moderate his behavioour - hoping someone at United would call him and tell him to behave rather than calling the cops on him.

The problem is we just don't know about any of that because we only have his side of the story.

Based on the way the story is told here, it seems to favor the flight attendant. HOWEVER, I get the feeling that there's a lot more to this. Tons of gaps here. Those details will be necessary to get anywhere near the truth. Even the details that United used to justify the determination seem to be lacking in the story as told by the flight attendant.

The FA's Marriott status is a weird detail that doesn't make much sense. If he flew into EWR, why was he quarantined to a Marriott in Wilmington, DE? That's odd. Why would the hotel claim that he wasn't masking (back before that was required) and that he blocked exits (which is a bizarre claim)? In other words, none of this adds up.

@Gorforride

Your comment,
“Moreover, he actually gets fired, it’s after a long and tortured union process.”

Not always the case. Termination can occur before any union actions. Arbitration is where the union can return the employee back to work, but the company gets to chose which arbitration cases they want to hear. In some instances a company chooses to hear only 2 cases per month, 12 a year; meaning a fired employee is still out of work and will settle to a lesser reward such as coming back to work, without lost time pay and a high level of punishment.

Arbitration can be the first time the union was involved.

Right out of university I worked for Westin hotels for 12 years. Mostly in the rooms division. I can tell you that when Westin was Japanese owned, and also when it was owned by Starwood, airline crews - On stays paid by the airline usually for layovers or cancellations - could not and would not accrue nights, points etc. If the crewmember was staying on their own i.e. paying on their own even if on a airline discount rate, then points and nights would accrue.

I will tell you that pilots were never a problem… But flight attendants were horrible. If the shuttle bus from the airport was three minutes late they would come in screaming at The front desk. If a towel was missing they would write nasty comments… Flight attendants overall were a headache… And I can tell you many a time a flight attendant would call down to the desk and say that a gentleman caller would be coming by and to give them a key… So this doesn’t surprise me!

But there must be more to the story. If UNITED or any employer paid for and covered the quarantine costs for the employee then yes I would imagine Marriott can report whatever they deem necessary. If the conditions of the stay were that the guest be quarantined to his room and not leave… Then yes if Marriott witnesses the guest not following instructions, then yes UNITED or any employer in the situation should be informed.

For those that said, if UA paid, then they had the right to know. How do you pay for your travel (hotel, rental cars, and airline)? Do you use a corporate card, get a corporate discount? Reimbursed?
If you didn’t follow everyone of the hotel’s rules are you willing to accept his outcome?

As for loyalty points...
Working in sales, I’ve seen some pretty HUGE discounts, even better than airline staff rates, where the loyalty rewards goes directly to the person - staying, driving, or flying. Interesting, some chains can refuse to offer loyalty rewards if you use a 3rd party website.

Lastly, how will this end for the fired employee? If he wins... do you think Marriott will still honor his status, or points?

Where does one begin with this? *whistles*

Some of the (alleged) comments seem like there was a bad game of telephone. In particular, the claim "that Ray had told the hotel he wasn’t sick with coronavirus" might be something as innocuous as "Yeah, they told me I have to quarantine but I don't feel sick". "I have tested positive" doesn't necessarily map to "I am sick with". The former does not require symptoms while the latter does. So I'd be inclined to suggest that reporting that (at least on its own) was questionable (at best) on the part of the hotel/their employee.

Next, the status of policies is...well, a mess. Based on the statements, he was out of the hotel by April 24, 2020. Delaware didn't institute a mask mandate (as far as I can tell) until April 25, 2020. So there's no state law violation, and I believe that Marriott didn't have a formal corporate mask policy until mid-July. I can't speak to the hotel in question, but I feel like what happened here was a hotel reviewing remarks after-the-fact and perhaps mapping earlier behavior onto later policies.

I'll admit, I'm also bothered by the idea of a franchisee being able to tattle on someone for vague complaints and alleged violations of policies which don't seem to have existed at the time. File this under "issues with various Marriott franchisees" (most of those being, admittedly, related to things like resort fees or slashed amenities).

The other thought that I have is a big one (and IANAL TINLA applies here): The lawsuit seems flawed insofar as it does not either name the individual hotel or its owner as a defendant. I would have expected them (and/or the employee) to be named as a co-defendant.

My best guess is that this is because the plaintiff went forum-shopping. The idea that a plaintiff based in Maryland could sue a hotel chain ALSO based in Maryland (Marriott's corporate HQ is in Bethesda, MD) for alleged misbehavior in Delaware in court in Illinois is kind-of silly. There's a line of logic there, but it feels tenuous to base the choice of forum on the fact that United's HQ is in Chicago when United is not a party to the case (at best some subopenas might go their way), but by the token of Marriott "happening to do business" in Illinois this suggests that he might as well sue in Hawaii (where Marriott also does business).

Curiously, the case seems to avoid federal diversity jurisdiction as long as it's this guy vs Marriott since they're both "resident" in Maryland. If he had named the hotel or the employee as a defendant, then I'm guessing diversity jurisdiction might kick in and trigger easy removal to federal court.

Of course, Marriott's deeper pockets probably play a role in a lot of these decisions (since if the hotel were joined as a defendant, a court might just decide that Marriott International isn't at fault and the franchisee might just "bankrupt out" after the last year or so).

Also curious is that the /hotel/ (well, hotel chain) is the defendant and United is not joined with a wrongful dismissal complaint.

Do not know about this particular case, but in general, requiring covid-infected people to quarantine in hotels seems like a not particularly smart idea, similar to sending sick patients to nursing homes. Whenever possible, people should quarantine at home, vs in crowded hotels where other guests could potentially get infected even via ventilation systems (there were documented cases that it's possible). Sounds like it's something you want to do to spread the disease, not stop it.

" if the latter is the case, I suppose United would have more of a right to know what’s going on, though it’s definitely a blurry line"
- Umm not really seeing the blurry line here at all. If a company is booking employees into a property and that employee starts jeopardizing the safety of the staff and other guests the hotel has every right to notify the company. Actually given the fact this alleged behavior was happening in PUBLIC he had zero expectation in privacy and the hotel is free to calI his employer to complain. If he was acting this way I am totally fine with him being fired. His whole lawsuit is basically claiming they are lying about everything. Does that make any kind of sense at all?

2 issues here (both of which work against him and will likely have this thrown out) -

1. He was a representative of United (likely in a room booked by United since that is almost always the way flight crew rooms are handled). They didn't spy on him but simply reported to his employer (who he was representing) that he was causing issues.

2. There is a concept of contributory negligence. To the extent he was responsible for the situation either by getting COVID (don't know the circumstances but it will come up in the deposition) and/or his actions at the hotel any judge would easily rule he is primarily responsible for the situation. That coupled with item 1 above (no real right of privacy in public and especially when you represent a company) and this is a meritless lawsuit.