Review: Pakistan Airlines Business Class 777 Manchester To New York

Thanks for the post, Ben!

I would love to try out this route, given that it's operated by a unique carrier (not American nor British). I would love to try out PIA one day, although I don't think I'll have chance to visit Pakistan in a near future.

About the meal service, serving buffet-style main dish seems super nice, although it can slow down the speed of service (I don't want two or three hour meal service on a TATL flight...) if the cabin's full.

Plastic cutlery is probably due to safety concerns. Some airlines still give their premium passengers plastic cutlery for flights to higher-profile nations like the US or the UK. Given that Pakistan's internal affairs sometimes get volatile, I do understand why. But as you said, PIA could've used some nicer plastic cutleries. The ones on KLM economy class are pretty nice.

Sorry Ben,

I think you're being far too generous. This is not an inspiring product at all. Thanks for taking one for the team!

Was the odour from the cabin or passengers?

It is so important to provided excellent customer service in a situation where things are not very good otherwise. I can imagine what this review would be like if you did not have wonderful Kiran looking after you.

@Lucky-Great review. This has to be the highlight of the trip report. I don't think Heathrow is that bad, but Manchester is just...just...awful.

I have a very important question:

Have you flown from any other UK airports, like Gatwick? If so, how did you find them?

Wow, I have so very much enjoyed reading your reviews of all the more unusual airlines. I live vicariously through your blogs and photos. Thanks, Ben!

Why any westerner would fly a muslim airline by choice is beyond my comprehension..

No alcohol and increased risk of terrorism or hijacking

Thanks for this Ben. An incite-full review. I often find that good service can override lots of negative feelings about other aspects of a flight. I doubt I will get the opportunity to travel on PIA. Being a dry airline being a factor. I like my alcohol too much. Who said 'lush'?

The Pakistani dessert is Firni/Kheer... The are different and from the pics it looks like Firni ... But yes, the essence is that of milk, rice (usual ingredient) with touch of cardamom or saffron or some nice spices!

So based on this and Air India (although AI was F), any preference off the two? I think you should try AI soon too

Thanks for this review Ben...That dessert was really "kheer". It is a kind of rice pudding and is much liked in Indian Subcontinent.

Uggh, these trip reports are getting depressing. I'm quickly compiling my own "No Fly" list from your recent postings. Started with the smoking flight deck crew on China Eastern to the fart powder cabin odor of PIA . Your last trip was bad, bad, bad....

@Donna: LOL! Depressing is right: dreary Manchester, dreary PIA, dreary, dreary. Seems Lucky's recent batch of flights has him scraping the bottom of the barrel of commercial aviation, and there's still many more to try out - better him than me. That's actually a good thing in that it gives us the ability to firm up a 'no fly' list, and PIA is added, along with many other first, second and third world carriers, e.g. First World: Spirit Airlines, EasyJet, RyanAir. Second World: Serbia Air, Bulgaria Air. Third World - this is easy: every single last one of them.

Kudos to you Ben, while I may one day book a Saudia flight (if I stay out in the sun too long) you'd have to pay me to fly PIA 🙂

The dessert definitely looks like Phirni and not Kheer!

@Pat S: those would be included to my no-fly list which already includes UA, AA, and DL...although I wouldn't classify them as a "First" world airline if a first world airline is supposed to provide high quality of service and reliability

I find it funny that people still use "first," "second," and "third" world to describe the socio-economic status of countries (they are condescending and rather outdated terms to define the socio-economic status for foreign nations).

I agree with Donna! This trip has been extremely entertaining, but definitely not airlines that are high on my list. Thanks for being up for the adventure, Ben. 🙂

@Dan Palagino: Uh, sorry for the 'micro agression'. Not. Rush for the safe space for counseling. Having visited many dozens of countries (on every continent) the past 40 years I believe the use of the terms is appropriate (an anti-PC writer here btw) to this very day. There is even a fourth world level (the ultimate hopeless basket cases of failed states), e.g. Haiti, Congo. It's not funny, just a fact, reality of life on the planet. Not all are equal, and Lucky's posts prove that when it comes to airline quality. And the use of the terms not only refers to socio-economic status, but is referencing the status of the everything from garbage disposal, building codes, lawlessness, disorganization, lack of safety, , etc.. For example, having visited Communist China several times I'd place it at the bottom of the second world, nearer the third, despite the skyscrapers, hotels, infrastructure. Why? Filthy air, corruption, lower standards of hygiene in food preparation, etc. Parts of Italy, Greece would rank in the second world, as would a city such as Detroit, USA. And finally, multiple international organizations do such rankings: the U.N., OECD, and even the U.S. government, as do the large international financial institutions. In a PC age where every child is a winner, where everyone is a genius, every country, every airline is Swiss, truth becomes that much harder to take.

This is a joke. As the comments note, anyone who would willingly fly PIA is out of their mind. So why a review, we know its horrible. Stick with Asian and some European airlines, and avoid Mid East, US, and low cost airlines. There, the reviews are complete.

@ Cinti Lingus
Yes, SOME PEOPLE are just plain ignorant.

I'm betting on the dessert being Ras Malai. I think I see some malai floating up there. Also Ras Malai is easily my favourite sub-continental pudding.

inb4 racist comments

I see that the Trumpettes have wormed their way over to OMAAT. I suppose their infestation was inevitable.

I think Id rather take a steam ship across the North Atlantic in February then fly PIA the shape that jet was in wow

How old would these seats be? Would PIA have bought them second-hand?

@Phil

Taking a steamship across the North Atlantic in February would be too awesome. I would forgo Air France La Premiere for a berth on a freighter.

@Pat S - Seems like I depressed a nerve there.

Not sure what you are trying to claim by stating that you have traveled to many dozens of countries. For the record, lived in 17 and traveled to over 110 and counting. It's funny you bring up the UN and the OECD rankings considering I work for the UNDP.

The fact remains that "first," "second," " third" world countries are outdated terms and not used since they are loose terms which have very little objective measures for classifying countries. You may want to look up the origins of these classifications following WWII. There are many metrics which would shift the US to a 2nd world country by the evolved definitions (guess which permanent UN sec member was in favor of changing terms??) http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/judy-bachrach/has-america-become-third-world-nation

On the other hand, a fourth world country is not an actual country, but a state that would be characterized as Least Developed but does not have national recognition or primarily consists of an ethnic group.

The main reason why the terms were dropped is because they don't actually provide any specification of what qualifications a country needs to meet to be included nor were they designed for those classifications.

I do find your comments amusing - albeit senseless.

@Dan - if UA, AA, or DL are on your no-fly list, how do you make it across the US??

@Samantha - I use one of my personal biz jets - a charter jet company I inherited from my family.

@Lucky: Do you know which route the new PIA lease from Sri Lankan will fly on?

I flew the same route previously. My experiences were not good. The cabin climate control wasn't operating properly so it was hot on the tarmac and freezing in the air. An elderly woman fainted while on the ground and we had to deplane her for medical assistance. In this case, I got a refund from PIA.

Similar events took place last year on a DL flight from MSP to AMS. I was surprised that airlines are even allowed to fly in such situations (granted the ACs were operating but unable to maintain a comfortable climate). In this case, DL did not provide a refund even though every single passenger was enraged.

Heh, interesting that you posted your review of PIA on Pakistan Independence Day 🙂

The dessert looks like kheer to me, though it could also be rasmalai. The difference is whether it's made of whole rice (kheer) or rice cakes (rasmalai). The syrup is basically the same, a combination of condensed milk, cardamon, and saffron. FYI, if you're wondering about the powdered coffee, keep in mind that residents of the Subcontinent are positively OBSESSED with instant coffee. Some of the best and strongest filtered coffee recipes in the world can be found in India, yet chances are, if you walk into an Indian restaurant either here in the U.S. or in its native habitat, you'll be served Nescafe. My relatives used to beg my mother to bring cans of Maxwell House to India during our visits because they found it even better than Nescafe!

@Dan Palangio - Always great to be a member of the lucky sperm club!

Good ole Dan is a sweetheart hey? If he works for UN no wonder he's a snob, it's the most corrupt organization on the face of the earth. @Pat you're the man enjoyed your reply to "I'm better than you Boy" aka @Dan.
Lucky I have the greatest respect for your willingness to take one for the team. This has been one of the best comment sections I've seen in a long time

Well one thing I do know is Manchester Airport is HORRIBLE. Their security makes our TSA seem angelic! (I greatly dislike the TSA)

Have to agree with the first post from David, not inspiring at all. Lucky was so right during his review of Saudia, which seems to apply here and for which i am paraphrasing: if you are going to be dry, which is fine, at least offer a kick-ass product.

Wait a minute......just because you couldn't take photos of an empty lounge, there is no review? Not some sort of commentary? Maybe Ben secretly works for the UN.

I think your comments in the other thread about Manchester are a tad unfair...

Pretty much every uk and european airport I've been through (Dublin, London Gatwick, Heathrow, Birmingham, Hannover, Budapest, Manchester) has enforced the clear plastic 100ml security measures. There's always one (we refer to them as 'spanners') getting their bag pulled and having to explain the rules. It's not specific to Manchester in any way, and making it out to be is not only unfair, but a tad embarassing on your part.... It was shown on big signs, and repeated by the staff throughout your approach to security....

And yes, this does mean on connecting flights, having to pull out the liquid contents of your amenity bags and stick them in the clear plastic. Oh, "the humanity".

I've had more issues with always being asked to take shoes off in US airports. Never had to do that in the uk. But I do it, and don't complain. Well, apart from there... 🙂

Ok. Since obviously it's hard to get answers to relevant questions now a days without capturing attention without a diatribe - here goes attempt 2.

@Julia: Ever heard of the internet? Do some research and it is apparent that the company Mr. Dan refers to was founded by his father and sons TOGETHER (aka Mr. Dan). What started as a regional airline back in the 70s with a single leased old jet has now grown to a global chartered biz jet company. Do some research before making stupid comments. Some ppl do get lucky (aka Trump) and some people just work hard.

@Dan: Why are you even wasting your time responding to posts here? Most of the public in our country (the US) and even our leaders have displayed little intelligence, tact or general knowledge (welcome to a large fraction of the comment participants on OMAAT now a days). While I agree with what you have written and presented, this is hardly the forum - especially given the insignificance on the global scale of most of the individuals here. It just makes you sound elitist in a world where generally speaking that's a term used for anyone who does not fit the qualities of the general public.

Now, getting back to my original question: Does someone have an inkling of where PIA will be flying its leased A330s from Sri Lankan? This is valuable information for my colleagues and I, who are medical aid workers, and have to fly on a budget to troubled areas of the world but with comfort (aka biz class). Sometimes the flat bed on an airline over the 24 hours of flying is the only comfort and rest that we get over a two month deployment. Also, we cannot afford the "premium" airline costs which could be better spent on medicines, food, shelter and resources. So, any idea on where PIA will fly its new A330s? I have posted this question on askLucky and no response either. I would appreciate a response to my actual question before the criticism, etc.

@Emily - so far the only news that I have read quotes that London-Islamabad is the first route. The others are yet to be announced.

@Emily Blackburn: Ever hear of a sense of humor? Apparently not, given how far it seems that rod is lodged up your oh-so-tight @ss.

Great TR Ben...always wondered about their flights now. We actually flew PIA back in 1980 on a 747 to Germany.....That dessert you had looked like fernee....was it a custard with pistachios on it?

@Emily Blackburn

I provide free-of-charge travel and carriage for AID workers and NGOs regularly as part of the company's global social services commitment. Some of the charities that we serve are Red Cross, Medical Sans Frontier and Engineers Without Borders. Visit the website to find out if your organization is listed - if your's is not listed, we can get it registered with some paperwork. We have aircraft for services to difficult parts of the world with sophisticated protection suite, in-flight comfort and cargo capacity for disaster relief. We do this regularly with great pride and with zero cost to the AID organization. Contact me on my personal, located on my company's website (which you have found).

Keep up the admirable work.

Ahhhh, 5th freedom rights flights. Is there anything better?

I flew PIA on a 5th freedom flight from NRT-MNL way, way back in the early 90's. This was when the yen was relatively strong against the dollar and getting anywhere out of Japan cost an arm and a leg. So a buddy and I found the fare on PIA and jumped on it. Around $250 one way if I recall correctly.

We flew an ancient, ancient PIA 747 out of NRT that was mostly empty. We were sat way down the back with a good view up the interior fuselage. All I can remember was the absolutely incredible shaking of the entire plane with bins popping open and seats shaking as we roared down the runway at NRT on takeoff. Crazy! Cannot recall the service other than it was there. No booze tho!

Fun times!

@Willy - I flew that same route in 89! We had to do an e-landing in NRT 30 min into the flight because they observed a cabin pressurization instability caused by an orifice in the cargo hold seal. On that occasion, I boozed myself up while we had to deplane 😛 Thought was if we go down might as well be riding the high...

@Dan: Thanks a lot for your interest and your offer to help. If we can work something out, it will be a huge contribution to our work and getting help to those in need around the globe. Travel costs are excessive with 20 personnel and over 2 tonnes of essential supplies.

@Samantha: Thank you for the vital info!

@LUCKY: Thanks a lot to OMAAT for making such connections possible!

Mr Palangio: Looks like you are among the privileged very few. Bleed not for "out dated" terms. Meanings are the same. Possibly your ancestors called present day African Americans, negores, coloreds, blacks or the n word ! Names change underlying entities do not. Yes quite fashinable to be politically correct when you have "arrived" !

BEN thanks for reporting, although if you had asked me, I could have told you so.....even though I have never flown PIA and never will ! Know too much about Pakistani ways.

@Pat Amazing - you have just tried to justify that calling someone with the "n" word is the same as calling them an African American! Something is seriously ****ed up with you. Here's some non-PC language that you would understand: you are a retard and it's great that Ben didn't ask you anything because of your mental disability. This explains the current state of the US elections.

Best response of the day goes to Dan for not responding to your idiotic comment or as I would like to think:

With love from New Zealand!

As Dan's self-appointed and deluded BFF, gatekeeper, confidante, alibi, and fall guy, I proudly support and encourage his company's noble and dedicated service to assist aid workers' transportation needs to various and sundry not-so-nice-places in the world to make them better. I do similar work with a fleet of Jetta, (yes, it is just one now...and it is a two year old Volkswagon, not a misspell of "jet. Look, don't get all high and mighty, we give where and how we can!). I will occasionally ask a drunken, I mean, incapacitated neighbor if they need anything. Mixers. Marachino cherries. Pre-cut lemon wedges. You name it, I'm there! Mind you, I don't think I would fly PIA for any relief effort considering I have to be pharmaceutically altered to get into a NYC cab with a Pakistani driver. (Don't start unless you too have experienced glancing off the Pearly Gates en-route to Penn Station with just such a driver who's a bit bitter because his neurosurgeon credentials back home don't quite align with requirements here.) And that's where you come in, Dan. There is a wonderful resort in Palm Springs that... Oh no, I think I've just oversold... Now I know what American Airlines feels like. At least offer some push back and I promise to upgrade my pitch for more wiggle room. Dan. ...Dan!!!! ...Darn, bumped again. We all can't be Lucky all the time. (P.S. Just offered for some light chuckles... Safe and happy continued travels everyone.)

@Aleks Stojanovic

Dude, I am not even sure I understand what you have written... but please share with me whatever it is you have been smoking....

On a more relevant note, honesty cannot say that the flight reviewed here was any worse than my flight between CDG and CVG last week on DL.

You spelt Jetta correctly, but I am pretty sure you spelt "Volkswagen" incorrectly 😛

Love the puns - not really sure how it's exactly directed though - sarcasm I assume?

@Gerard & @ Samantha... sadly, nothing was smoked, drank, or endured as a head injury to create my diatribe. All it took was a slow afternoon at work, reading Lucky's latest posts, (now my favorite travel blogger,) being challenged by how to spell my car manufacturer's name correctly, and a sadly embarrassing attempt to become Dan's best friend so that I could ride on private planes for free. I failed at both the car manufacturer's spelling and being the person Dan calls to go bowling with... in Vienna, Mumbai, or Sydney. I should have just humbly written VW and that I was planning on doing great charitable efforts helping to teach unfortunate people how to work Velcro in desolate parts of the world that just happened to have five-star hotels. Four-star? Oh...come on! Let's be reasonable! 😉

@Aleks - sadly but truly that's what I am doing right now at work - reading travel blogs (well actually the comments :P)

@Aleks Stojanovic

I enjoy your humor. While I don't go bowling and don't enjoy being in big cities and resorts, I am always looking for fun individuals to share my hobby of fishing, hiking and camping out in the country. If you ever stop by Vermont, contact me with another of your hilarious comments and I don't see why we cannot meet up.

David - people like you should not fly internationally. Horribel racist-smelling comment so STFU.

@Petter: Better to just ignore. The blog is a nice cover for everyone to write what they feel like without any consequence. It's like a fire. If you don't add any more fuel to it, it will extinguish. Anyways, there are more kind people in the world than the alternative even though it's the alternatives who draw the attention. If you acted against every racist comment on this blog or the muted racism in the articles, it could be a full time employment. Take solace in the fact that these people will probably never cross your path - or if they did, they wouldn't have the guts to act as they portray here.

This report sums up the problem with PIA and Air India, the two large public sector airlines in the subcontinent. Over the past 40 years both have gone from being well run airlines (AI was once a spectacular carrier), to clunky, Third World public sector entities exhibiting all the graft and labor issues rife in the public sector of both countries. Contrast both with Jet Airways' polished and superb long haul J Class product, and you can pinpoint the problem - the public sector has no business being in the service sector. AI seems to be getting better in fits and starts, in part because it's competing with far better airlines domestically and with 50+ carriers internationally; PIA, however, competes mostly with the Gulf carriers on its international routes, and does so primarily on price. So, there's no real reason to innovate and improve.

The Pakistani food looked very good, however. I sometimes wonder why they even bother with supposed "international service standards" like bread, salad, cheese, etc. The mostly Pakistani-origin pax don't really care if it's there or not, and Western travelers aren't about to be impressed by stale rolls in plastic, roughage under saran wrap, or Kraft cheese on a china plate. Pakistani food is replete with fabulous appetizers, desserts, breads, etc., that can be showcased and presented in a way that makes the travel experience unique and enjoyable.

@Delta FNT Diamond-The seats are PIA's original seats. Though they just haven't updated them.

I heard that PIA used to be a SPECTACULAR airline and used to be top notch like Emirates is now (did you know PIA gave Emirates they're first planes).

However, once an airline is top notch, it's hard to maintain. They just we're not able to maintain they're place.

Also, due to PIA being a government owned airline, they're CEO keeps changing therefore having a negative impact on the airline. Also like people said earlier, they're planes aren't maintained properly (For example; PIA flight 661 with Junaid Jamshed on board).
That being said, I believe that although they're aircraft aren't that good, they're service is amazing. I always hear that the crew is either amazing or terrible. Also, they're food is amazing as Pakistani food would be

PIA is updating all their 777s cabins in November 2017 do try PIA then,
I am a PIA traveler and I have travelled 3 times on this 777-200LR reg AP-BGZ, the plane is in good condition only the cabin looks a little outdated but soon it'll be great, PIA does use real cutlery on other flights which don't do to USA, PIA is getting some 787s soon which will be on this route with new cabins and seats so do try that, PIA is a very safe airline and all the airplanes are well maintained,
The crew is very good and very down to earth for the business class passengers Not to economy passengers though but if you're a foreigner they might upgrade you mid flight to business class if there are any seats

PIA has lost some of its reputation because of the corruption in the country, but soon it'll be back on track and be a great airline,
If you have any questions regarding PIA or me then mail me

Mohib Ahmed Dial sounds like a deluded fanboi, , to Pakistanis who are hardcore PIA fans and nationalists it's at par with likes of Lufthansa and Air France etc. with just some minor flaws, probably thinks your blog is a joke and you a fool who can't discern.

And Lucky why do you keep calling the airline Pakistan? it has an acronym PIA for a reason, would you call KLM as Dutch in your review repeatedly? Dutch 777, Dutch does not have a nice something, Dutch business product isn't recomended, sounds silly no?

Why do you keep calling the airline Pakistan? it has an acronym PIA for a reason, would you call KLM as Dutch in your review repeatedly? Dutch 777, Dutch does not have a nice something, Dutch business product isn’t recomended, sounds silly no?

@ ali -- Because the "P" stands for "Pakistan." In the case of KLM, neither the "K," nor the "L," nor the "M," stand for "Dutch."

Calling Pakistan International Airlines "Pakistan" is the same as calling American Airlines "American."

@Emily Blackburn, PIA do no use A330 now, lease ended a few months back, Premier brand product improvements also seem to have been removed as Premier brand product is no more available, but hey the airline is no less than Lufthansa for delusional fanboys.

@Lucky so JAL would be called Japan and ANA would be Nippon in your reviews?

@ ali -- Well no, because I have no clue what Nippon is/means, and because there are two major global Japanese airlines, so that wouldn't clarify which it is.

@ Lucky Nippon is Japanese name of Japan.

@ali everybody has their own opinion
And I like to take side of my Country and it's Airline
And PIA has acquired the 777-300ER from Air Austral and will most probably be sending it for the Cabin change after Hajj(Pilgrimage)
The 777 is on dry lease for 6 years

Nice review. I found the comments quite interesting, especially regarding PIA being a dry airline. While alcohol is a necessary part of travel for many, there are many other who would prefer to travel on a dry airline. An enclosed aircraft cabin and passenger next to you drinking, is not an ideal travel situation for those like me who actually feel nauseated even by the smell of alcohol.

So dry airline is actually a good thing for passengers like me.

Great review Lucky... i am flying YYZ-LHE in (Business class )next month and will sure write a review for that experience. PIA was the launch customer for 777-200LR back in 2006. i have since flown on both 200LR & 300ER versions but always in economy & this time due to off-season pricing it is a steal of a deal to fly business.

@Lucky - I just found out that PIA will no longer be selling tickets to any US Destinations from October 31 (It says all US destinations though JFK is their only current destination). I checked on their website and Google flights and it's updated. Apparently their discontinuing this flight. They've had a US flight without disruption since 1961. Just saying it might be a good post 🙂

@Giles Crowe from 2016,

"This explains the current state of the US elections."

Wait until the Dem primaries for 2020 election.

Just had chance to re read this. Wow. Possibly the worst business in the world ???