The terrible situation unfolding in Afghanistan is having quite some implications on aviation, with one flight today being particularly noteworthy.
Continue reading: Emirates 777 Flies All The Way To Kabul, Turns Around
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Major credit to the airlines for saying enough is enough. It’s way too dangerous to fly over that country and to land there when the Taliban is now in full control of the entire country. It’s on Biden for evacuating everyone safely he said it was impossible for the capital to fall just last month.
So USA invade and occupy Afghanistan for 20 years using Taliban and peacekeeping as an excuse.
Taliban still survives and took Afghanistan back in 2 weeks!!
Haven't Vietnam teach us anything?
I feel bad for the people trying to get out on that flight. Imagine a passenger tracking that plane all the way to Kabul and left without landing.
I feel sorry for our brothers and sisters who fought a politicians war to defend someone else's border for nothing.
Well I guess from what we learn from the Olympics, our military leaders probably have mental health issues and have to withdraw without finishing the job. Is this America's new attitude?
If anyone needs a refresher on what the situation is there right now and why, The New Yorker published an excellent piece this weekend called "Not Our Tragedy".
It explains that after spending 20 years and trillions of dollars trying to fix the situation, most Americans no longer care what happens to Afghanistan and as such Biden will not be getting involved.
I guess it be a bad weekend to take the family for a weekend in Kabul to see the sights and tour the country side.
Finally standing up for their own country. Good for them. A better day Afghanistan is coming.
Most people here (Americans) thought that the afghan war started 20 years ago! WRONG!
The taliban is a result of cold war created by yours truly.
People in the US really need some history lessons where the US did not play a hero.
Yup I’m sure all the newly enslaved women see this as a “better day for Afghanistan” imagine not being allowed to go out in public or go to school which women in Afghanistan are no longer allowed now.
Crazy how the flights turned around and no idea if the next scheduled flights to Kabul for airlines like Turkish & Air India will proceed now. The EK flight could have easily made an emergency landing in Pakistan if it was anywhere close to not having enough fuel.
Once we missed getting Bin Laden in Afghanistan, we should have left immediately.
And one correction, most Americans *never* cared what happened.
Bad policy. Finally ended.
The concept of the “sunk cost fallacy” is lost on most people, not just the US government.
NATO have just announced all commercial air movements are suspended with only military aviation allowed, it’s not clear if the airspace is being shut down but BA have ordered its pilots not to fly over Afghanistan.
Ben, can you please cool it with the “flight to nowhere” lingo? All flights go somewhere, even if it’s just circling the airport while doing touch-and-go.
Wheres your source on that? I can see through flightaware theres a few planes over Afghan airspace right now, such as this Thai airways flight from Frankfurt to Bangkok:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THA921
Wheres your source on that, can see through flightaware theres still several flights in Afghan airspace now such as Thai airways flight #921 from Frankfurt to Bangkok
All commercial flights from Kabul airport suspended - NATO official
16:35 post
BA planes told to avoid Afghan airspace
British Airways has ordered its pilots to avoid Afghan airspace because of the growing turmoil in the country, Sky News can confirm.
Well … Thailand is not a NATO country, and it’s also very possible that it took off from FRA before the news broke and the route was already planned. It may not have enough fuel for a significant diversion (keeping in mind that aircraft probably still avoid contested Ukrainian/Russian airspace) route. In any case, I’m certain that NATO aircraft are not going to shoot a wide body airliner out of the sky … it’s not as if that could ever be confused for a Taliban aircraft…
@Luke
Not all airlines are avoiding Afghan airspace. The preceding posts only mention BA avoiding that airspace and Kabul airport being closed.
The fact that Thai flew across Afghanistan does not impact the accuracy of the post
I can't imagine what Afghanistan has been going through for the past 40 years...It feels like the country has been at war for 4 decades
I saw this. I reported to my friend that FR24 detected 4 aircraft in the immediate vicinity of Kabul Airport. An Air India A320-200ceo; this Emirates 777-300ER; 2 Soviet helicopters with U.S. registry (N243XX & N541VS). IIRC, Afghan airspace was otherwise clear.
I thought the Emirates 777 was meant to evacuate diplomatic personnel bound for Europe. I did notice its prolonged holding pattern, going round and round. Man, I feel for the people on the ground desperately waiting to be evacuated… hope they get their chance.
Just last month, President Biden said Afghanistan won't fall. Then intelligence reports shortened the expected date of the fall of the Afghan government from 6 months to 90 days. In fact, the government fell in about a week.
The Wall Street Journal attributes the fall to the US military not training the Afghans to fight other than the US method. The US method requires air support and air transport, not the low tech methods used in World War II and earlier. The Afghan military was accustomed to fighting the way it was done 75 years ago. When the US left, the Afghan military could not sustain the US method of fighting without air support, which they don't have. That is why Afghanistan fell. Inadequate US training.
Shortly after I left this comment, I checked on Kabul's airspace again on FR24. Some interesting traffic for sure. I'll list them below:
1. HiFly A330 from London-Heathrow to an undetermined destination;
2. HiFly A340-300 from Lisbon to an undetermined/destination;
3. A U.S. Navy Lockheed C-130J Hercules, whose interesting callsign I won't disclose;
4. A Royal Air Force C-17A Globemaster III which took off from the RAF in Cyprus, then turned south towards Egypt before going eastwards over KSA, then Oman, then northwards to Pakistan... then interestingly disappeared;
5. A USAF K-135R Stratotanker which took off from Qatar, also w/ an interesting callsign I won't disclose.
Seriously, go turn on FR24 and look for interesting traffic in/around Afghanistan (but also hope for the best for the people involved).
Not really acceptable. This wasn't some ultra-long flight. They changed their mind in a little over two hours. If the situation was that unstable they shouldn't have even let the plane take off.
It was f**ked up before the US (and the Soviets, and the British) got there, it’ll be f**ked up after the US leaves.
The hubris was thinking “This time will be different”.
A bit more information coming out now about why aircraft were turned away after being in holding patterns, according to news reports the Taliban were engaged in gunfire with US and British Troops at Kabul airport after which NATO secured operations to military only.
Interesting, saw on the news video images of the airport with an EK777 taking off. These weren't stock images so maybe a chapter?
Great suggestion.
C-17 just landed in Kabul!
Several Turkish Air flights over the county, and a couple United flights from India as well.
Right now the second of two UA flights (UA802/UA830) left the Afghanistan airspace on their way from India to the US. Apparently the NATO no-fly zone doesn’t apply to US aircraft. (I deliberately waited with this posting until the second one had left the Afghani airspace and entered Tajikistan).
It’s not been made clear if it’s a no fly zone or they are just restrictions for landing and taking off at airports within Afghanistan, but I think airlines are taking a common sense approach and avoiding airspace but as you said some are still over flying.
He did one a few weeks ago '18 hour flight' when that was aboluutly not the case.
I used to like Ben because of his measured headlines and articles but in the past year there have been too many 'OMG' or ''WOW' headlines as thought he were a teen on insta.
I dont think need to "deliberately " wait to give information that's publicly available online. Can see Air India flight#121 to FRA just now entered Afghan airspace, so for sure not being avoided by some.
What else is Biden supposed to say/do? Not leave Afghanistan and continue to engage in a costly war that has no end in sight? Or should he say "The Afghan government is going to get overrun soon, everyone panic and run for the nearest exit"?
Turkish flight# 706 is on the way to Kabul after taking off an hour ago from Istanbul.
They should take all the parked A380s in the world and run evacuation flights if their still being brave enough to operate the service!
Well, what can be said about 20 year occupation, where nowt has been achieved. Thousands have lost their lives, the so called super power and its cronies then run away because they pooped their pants.
The Afghans know their terrain, you could never outplay them on the ground. The western idiots think they can enforce their will on others, yet miscalculated that these lands have never been conquered in history.
So a trillion plus dollars looted from the AMERICAN PUBLIC COFFERS, the people was told lies continuously just like on previous misadventures that OOOOSAAA has made a blunder of and now their military shizen are saying don't compare it to Saigon. Well you got that wrong again, fail, fail and fail is always a fail.
David and Goliath, OOOOSAAA has had it's backside whoooped yet gain. This will be the next one for the unfortunate Americans to be taunted about after Vietnam.
War is good business for the cronies sitting in Captial Hill.
Do we need a vaccine or a negative test to visit Afghanistan, or is everybody welcome? -)
The Russians seem to be ignoring all this (surprise). I see Aeroflot 273 just flew right by Kabul enroute from BKK to SVO. Looks like they flew almost directly over Kabul -- maybe the pilots wanted to take a peek at their old stomping grounds? At 34,000 feet, probably fairly low risk.
That's the only aircraft I see within Afghan airspace right now (though I see EVA 78 from AMS headed for a transit across the northern part of the country).
I would have figured there would be a steady stream of outbound flights continuing all night...unless the Taliban have started shooting at the airport or departing planes, or outbound charter/airline flights have their transponders turned off. The plane will fly just fine without a working transponder. You just need to keep an eye out for other traffic, and you can work that out via radio.
Ah, news reports say Kabul Airport has now been closed to civilian traffic.
I note that TK706 is still inbound from IST, about 90 minutes out. Maybe the airport will open after sunrise? Hmmm. Air India 161 from DEL to LHR looks like it will enter Afghan airspace soon and overfly.
Rough sledding ahead, tough times for everyone there.
Really ? That’s it ? The argument for American withdrawal included a phased orderly transition from US power to Afgan power and control. Perhaps with some women with everything on the line to give the men a backbone. Cut and run will be an international stain the world will associate with Biden. Democrats were so busy thinking Trump was going to start a war with everyone or give away the store to countries that “had the goods on him” they never saw his genius of playing both bad cop and good cop. The fact that Trump would not show his hand to anyone (perhaps Mike Pompeo) left zero brained lefties to think ; he’s all over the place, he doesn’t know what he is doing. He knew America always holds four aces. As President it was his duty to play them wisely. He was magnificent. The fact that lefties just don’t get it doesn’t mean Trump didn’t have it.
It’s a good thing our President has an East Coast society magazine to communicate detailed secret international policy for him. Lord knows he can't do it.
Huh ? I missed that moment. When was it exactly ? Leaving is not the debate, any timing before today is not the debate. The debate is technique, timing, communication and inclusiveness with our allies and coordination with those left with the responsibility. Cut and run and a weekend off is not leadership. It's insanity.
Sorry, you are right. However today's topic could not be more political. You're going to have to hold your nose for a day or two.
On that topic sounds like there was a lot of traffic building in Afghanistan. That could demonstrate an improving economic climate. Damn shame.
There's some useful information looking for a home.
Best (safest) way to get to Afghanistan is by cruise ship.
All they need is a saltwater coast.
Why are people so excited about planes flying over Afgan airspace?
There is no known information that the Taliban have access to advance surface to air missile capable of reaching cruising altitudes of commercial airliner. If they have it, it's because we or the Russians left it there like the Stinger missiles (which is for low altitude).
@Pat cattin
Do you even know what the US army was doing in Afghanistan for years? They’ve been training the Afghan army so that they can stand on their own. That’s the orderly transition. The US can’t occupy Afghanistan and fight their war for them forever, especially when the Afghans don’t want to fight at all. The Talibans are willing to die for their cause, the Afghanistan government is being paid to fight for a cause they don’t believe in. How much longer should Biden keep the army there, and would another few months, or even a few MORE years make any difference?
What Afghan government? Those that have the ability like the president are abandoning it like a sinking ship. Its a shame since we have now equipped and armed the Taliban with all the arms and vehicles we have left behind.
AIC126 just entered the Afghan Airspace but just seconds later, it has turned back into the Turkmenistan's Airspace and is currently flying towards the Iranian airspace. This is interesting, considering that AIC102 overflew the Afghani airspace earlier this morning (local times)
My brother is a journalist for the BBC and was on board an AI flight from Delhi to Kabul yesterday. He called us upon landing. They apparently circled the Afghan air space for over two hours before being allowed to land. The aircraft landed and then boarded evacuees before departing. This was around the same time that the Emirates aircraft decided to turn back. He is of course staying back to report from ground zero.
Hang on... who said "I hope Biden doesn't stay in Afghanistan until September 2021"?? Wasn't that your magnificent guy?? And who decided to sign a treaty that the Talibans of course didn't respect? Oh.. right... your magnificent guy!!
I'm not sure Biden felt that himself, but he had to present the "No Overrun" message that was given to him, by his less then realistic & foolish advisors!!
The cold hard fact is, 1 more month or 10 more years wouldn't have make a difference in the outcome.... This is feeling expressed in the current Washington DC area pole, where 92% believe troop withdrawal was the right thing to do. Sorry "Bleeding-Heart Liberals"!!
It may not be a popular opinion, but many Afghans appear to be content with their new government.
Check out the twitter account of Ariana Arghandewal, who works for TPG and either is or her family is from Afghanistan. She wrote this which probably sums up the sentiment of many Afghanis:
"With the corrupt war criminals being out, I’m optimistic. I’m hearing the security situation is improving. When I visited a decade ago, I kept hearing “their ideas are backwards but the city was safe.” I know it contradicts the popular narrative, but this might be for the best."
You're right to disclose TPG. With this, at least I can assume the Taliban might have paid her it's advertorial (propaganda).
@Endre
It may not be a popular opinion, but many Americans appear to be content with any government, new, old, last one, next one, maybe expect the first one and the vampire hunter one.
Afghanistan was on lease to US for 20 years.
US built all infrastructure.
The Indian govt helped with roads and new Dams.
Taliban took back control of the country, without any loans ...
Pretty good move by Taliban...
PIA also flew into Kabul on Sunday according to Flightradar24 on PK6249/6250. They landed at 10:42am from Islamabad and left Kabul at 4:06pm.
Flightradar24 also shows 3 flights scheduled from ISB to Kabul on Wednesday which aren't showing as canceled (leaving from 10:00-10:10am). One of them seems to be a regularly scheduled flight (PK249) on an A320 and the other two seem to be temporary evacuation flights (PK6249 and 6251) which are being operated by a 777-200 and 777-300 respectively. I don't know if all three will operate, but the 777-200 flight does have a plane assigned to it.