Holy moly. It’s not uncommon to see stories of flights diverting due to safety concerns over unruly passengers. However, it’s not usually a person in the cockpit who is the cause of concern. That’s what makes this story from yesterday so wild.
Continue reading: Horizon Air Flight Diverts Because Off-Duty Pilot Tries To Shut Off Engines
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Yikes. Definitely want to hear the full story, as the description is kind of vague as to whether there was (much of a) physical struggle, or a mostly verbal disagreement that got out of hand.
Still, cray. Imagine, assuming there was a struggle, if one of the authorized pilots had been out of the cockpit on lav break or something....
Aircraft Dispatchers have to “jumpseat” also getting 5 hours once a year FAA mandated training, not just pilots are the only one…
Whom else would be allowed to sit in the Jumpseat?
Obviously pilots like you mentioned.
I know ATC can also ride in the jumpseats.
Whom else?
Pilots are not the only ones who are permitted to occupy a flight deck Jumpseat. Certificated and qualified dispatchers are also permitted.
Horizon Air (Alaska Airlines) had a Dash-8-400 crash due to suicide. No passengers or other crew was aboard.
AT controllers have been eligible for the jump seat for “fam” flights as well. Has that been stopped?
"Whom else would be allowed to sit in the Jumpseat?"
Me?
I was in the jumpseat for the final 20 minutes of flight and landing in a major European hub airport after a flight from JNB a few months ago. It was one of the highlights of my life (Yes, I'm that sad and empty).
That said, this Horizon incident also brings to mind the FedEx 705 incident back in 1994. I have a book about that, very scary incident indeed.
Worse case scenario: psychotic episode in a pilot with no previous inkling
Best case scenario: Discussion and disagreement followed by jumpseat pilot standing suddenly and captain misinterpreted intent.
Pilots, dispatchers and FAA personnel are permitted to occupy the cockpit jumpseat.
Staff on standby are permitted, although it’s prohibited between / in some countries and I believe the US is included and normally only for the airline you are employed by.
Thank god it didn't get to that point, because there were no additional passengers on Flight 705
Immediate Jail for trying to interfere with airplane controls which could result in death and injury of all on board.
He was arrested and booked in on 83 counts of attempted murder. Booking Information
SWIS ID
841644
Name
Emerson, Joseph David
Age
44
Gender
Male
Race
White
Height
6 ft 1 in
Weight
210 lbs
Hair
XXX
Eyes
Blue
Arresting Agency
Port of Portland
Booking Date
10/23/2023 04:11 AM
Assigned Facility
MCDC
Projected Release Date
Unknown
Charges
Click on each court case number to expand the display and see the charges.
Court Case No. None
DA Case No. None
Citation No. None
ATT MURDER I (A Felony)
Bail: $0
It isn't just pilots that are allowed in the jumpseat. Maintenance personnel, flight dispatchers, and federal aviation employees may also be allowed. They must all be entered into a cockpit access system called CASS. This must be verified prior to issuance of a jumpseat boarding pass.
That's ridiculous. This exact same person could have been at the controls of a different flight. A barrier doesn't do anything to solve this.
Yeah they describe it as 'one moment' 'a little bit overboard' - though in the next comm say it briefly was a 'Level 4' - the highest threat.
Maybe he reached for the controls, got agitated, and they pulled his arm away with no struggle.
It’s all pilots. It could just as easily have been one of the flying pilots. If some type of jumpseat ban came down, then you are guaranteeing that the next time someone lost their shit there would only be one other pilot to fight them off while trying to simultaneously fly the plane. I’d much rather have another pilot on the Jumpseat to help me vice dealing with that shit by myself. I’m not advocating for any jumpseat changes, as this is a one off incident, just saying that if anyone were to be for a change on the grounds of a “rogue” pilot, it should be to mandate a jumpseater, not eliminate one.
SA - Any more information about security protocol you'd like to share with the world?
I don't THINK that's been a thing since 9/11. Or at least not as common. My dad is a retired ATC, and I remember him FAM-ing all over the world when I was a kid. My brother is now an ATC, and I don't think he ever got to. I think they get their "familiarization" via other means, and it's no longer a perk to be able to travel that way. Maybe it's changed in the past few years, since I asked him about it, though.
A flight one minute more than 8 hours saved FedEx.
Book “Hijacked” a tense read.
Seattle area
Horizon Air
Sounds very familiar to the Q400 incident.
Automation solves this problem.
Meteorologists who did aviation forecasting also used to be allowed to ride jump seat on "fam" flights. I'm sure that also ended with 9/11.
"Automation solves this problem."
You really never have anything new to add, do you? Almost like your responses are... automated!!!
Flight deck training for controllers resumed in the early 2010s. It was shut down again during COVID and has not resumed since. One of the present justifications for keeping it locked is the horrendous staffing levels at facilities, meaning most controllers wouldn't be able to partake anyways.
Beyond that, unless this incident is going to be used to stop any non-required flight deck access (including to other pilots jumpseating), this shouldn't have any impact on resumption... when and if that happens to begin with.
It also depends on the country. Some countries are more strict than others. For example, I remember reading that a prominent Middle Eastern airline does not allow anyone other than the Pilots/Flight Attendants in the cockpit at all times (I can't remember the airline).
Meanwhile, I have flown in the jumpseat on PIA on a domestic flight a couple of times. I knew the pilot and he allowed me to stay there for the entire duration of the flight. It was truly a memorable and once in a lifetime experience (for me).
He obviously has some kind of mental health problem and needs to be examined by a psychiatrist. Pilots are just a susceptible to mental health problems as the rest of us.
Another round of regulations and procedures will not stop these bizarre, rare events.
Years ago my wife and I were flying Air New Zealand from Auckland to Sydney and the purser invited us to stand in the cockpit as we were on approach to Sydney. We had to go back to our seats before final approach and landing but still an amazing view as we prepared to land. Obviously passengers aren't allowed in the cockpit now.
I have sat in a jump seat on a private jet at a former company all the way through landing. Again, it was an amazing experience. This was after 9/11 so no restrictions, at least at that time, regarding cockpit access for passengers on private jets.
Unlikely that a psychotic episode occurs with "no inkling." More likely, it is part of a change in behavior that one or more people may be aware of but do not address and/or write off as a passing phase. In the case of a pilot and other personnel with the ability to engage in highly lethal acts, impulsive or otherwise, there needs to be a version of "see something/say something" along with active corporate psychological/behavioral surveillance and easy, non-stigmatizing access to professional support and care: a tall order and one not without its vulnerabilities
Frightening and beyond that. Flew Alaska the day before. An off-duty pilot, no less. So much for safety and security. Who can you trust. I take it the slow-to-react (think Boeing MAX) FAA hasn't even suspended (never mind revoke) his CPL yet, so he's good to go. Well, not sitting in a jail cell facing 83 counts of attempted murder. Unbelievable, but believable in our crazy world. Think German Wings.
Until it’s hacked. The NSA was hacked. The Pentagon was hacked. Even Hillary was hacked. And automation definitely doesn’t take care of all emergencies in the air or pick it’s way through thunderstorms and a whole lot more.
I'm a flight attendant for a major carrier.. this is beyond bizarre and terrifying. I'm afraid to speculate. But I will take the mental illness angle until we know further.
Downside of automation is that it is going to eliminate all jobs for people.
Nothing is 100 percent hackproof.
Seems more consistent with a threat than actual intent. I would imagine a 6'1" 210 pound male who was intent on pulling the shut off levers would be able to get to it while the two seatbelted guys in front of him were tasked with flying the plane.
Scary. Strange coincidence that this post is right underneath one about an Air Greenland Dash 8 flight. I was fortunate enough on a very empty Air Greenland Dash 8 flight a couple of years ago to sit jump seat in the cockpit from SFJ to Nuuk and it was one of the coolest things I’ve ever gotten to do in my life - especially the landing. I get it why that’s normally not allowed, but it sucks that a few crazies ruin it for everybody. Glad all on the Horizon flight ended up safe.
LMFAO, you don't even deny you're a completely broken record.
"Automation solves this problem" is a statement in the same vein as "a cure for cancer will solve that problem": technically true, but uninsightful, overly simplistic, and mostly irrelevant. In fact, I'd wager we'll see a cure for cancer sooner than we'll completely eliminate the human component from aviation. Skeptical we'll see either in our lifetimes, though.