On Sunday evening, a nightmare scenario unfolded, whereby an off-duty pilot seated in the jump seat of a Horizon Air Embraer E175 attempted to shut off the plane’s engines. He ended up having to be removed from the cockpit, and the flight had to divert. Fortunately no one was injured, but this incident has understandably…
Continue reading: Pilot Who Tried To Shut Off Engines Was On Psychedelics
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Ultimately nobody got hurt. This pilot does not deserve any punishment in my opinion.
welcome to the socialist world where everyone is a good person and any harm done was just an accident.
lock em up
Just to note, it's not exactly clear when he took the mushrooms. It is implied it was before the flight, but nothing directly says that.
"The officer and EMERSON talked about the use of psychedelic mushrooms and EMERSON said it was his first-time taking mushrooms."
That is all we have on that. It doesn't say for sure he took it right before the flight.
The FAA needs to get their act together on pilot depression and provide a pathway for treatment AND re-instatement in either flying or a ground position that pays appropriately for their contributions to their industry. This is not an industry where people should be allowed to silently struggle until they get to this point.
I sense that mandatory 'shroom testing will become a thing in US business very soon.
Great work on behalf of the crew. You couldn't imagine how surreal this must have felt to them while it was happening.
Sadly (and more importantly scary) mental illness (as well as a couple of other health issues) is being mostly ignored by the Medical Industrial Complex. Enough said. Why someone in a job like this would use "psychedelics" to deal with depression, even more so while on the job is just mind blowing.
I disagree. Attempted murder of 83 people isn’t a minor offense just because it failed.
how incredibly, incredibly sad.
The irony is that, by not asking for help, even if by taking a medical leave of absence, he ended his career.
The fact that he apparently was an active pilot for AS and nothing had been apparent up to that point is what is most frightening.
Yes, the FAA needs to have a pathway for stepping aside and getting help as with other illnesses.
Was with you the whole way except for reinstatement of flying. What?! Absolutely not - I don't want a clinically diagnosed pilot with depression flying a plane, no matter how well treatment has worked. There's too much at risk to have that.
Agreed, definitely something the police could check. If the poor guy hadn't slept for 40 hours prior to the flight as stated, he could absolutely be having bad hallucinations, no drugs necessary.
Well said and greed. I'm sure there are pilots who read this blog, and would also appreciate their thoughts.
My young niece just got her pilots license and will join the commercial airline industry (she's in a Skywest program), and what she tells me about the many medical reasons to be denied or lose a license is extraordinary...I appreciate the safety protocols, but there needs to be assistance/rehabilitation programs as well.
having no even temporary off-ramp or the possibility of some sort of reinstatement is what is certain to keep someone from coming forward for help.
As with all illnesses, there can be no prediction of the outcome but hope of a better future or some sort of return to normality has gotten a lot of people through a crisis.
Even your license for a short to medium term medical issue doesn't mean you are assured of getting back in the cockpit
Yeah, I'm sure they did a drug test on him so maybe he tested positive and that's why it came up. But the wording from the police report doesn't confirm he took them before the flight, so I think Ben, for now, should edit the headline.
Meanwhile a Republican senator, Jeff Wilson, was arrested on arrival in Hong Kong for carrying a gun. Claims he reached into his bag to get some “ gum”. Gum, gun, tomato tomato
This is not a mental health issue. This is a drug problem.
It is fortunate that Emerson did not resist too much.
Wow! So much sympathy for this guy who intended to kill himself and 82 others. Yes, he needs help. No, he shouldn’t have a pathway back into a cockpit, ever again.
This is a real problem in some professions, you can't get help with your mental health without jeopardizing your livelihood.... pilots, doctors & nurses... On the other hand, if you're going to experiment with a mind altering substance, perhaps you should do it when you have a couple of days off to see how it affects you?
I’m confused about the charges being brought against him. The Feds say it’s “one count of interfering with flight crew members and attendants.” The state says it’s 83 counts of attempted murder. I’d go along with the state charges.
He had recently passed his semiannual physical. So apparently these physicals aren't screening for mental health???
Those who struggle with mental health issues often make decisions that the healthy (or healthier) population would deem mind blowing. Be careful to not indict those who struggle like this, we need to find ways to better locate, diagnose, and help those people.
This is why in many cases friends and family have to step in. I've seen so many people ignore family member mental issues because of embarrassment. Or they excuse it away like oh he's just tired, need some vitamins.
Yes but then instead of shrooms they'll use something else precisely to avoid detection. You'll end up with situations like electronic security, endlessly chasing after the security issue that just happened.
You know a lot of stalkers are let go because they didn't hurt anyone and then they murder who they were stalking.
Kudos to the flight crew for their handling of this situation. This individual will, in all likelihood, go to prison, face a hefty civil penalty and will never operate another commercial flight. But if the reports of charges of attempted murder are accurate, well that's just prosecutorial overreach, and I'd be shocked if those hold up. Even if he had shut down both engines, the aircraft was at 31k feet. At that altitude, the flight crew had at a minimum a half dozen potential diversion airports easily within gliding distance, included KPDX, where they opted to divert.
"Mental Health" is a VERY broad term and can improve or decline RAPIDLY. I don't place ANY blame on Alaska or the Government for this incident, and it sounds like the Suspect doesn't either and is taking FULL accountability.
Mushrooms do not affect you 48 hours after usage. Any hallucinations occur in a 4-5 hour period after. Further, those used for depression are of minimal dosage and very rarely have an effect like this.
Either he is lying about when he took them or he is hiding behind depression as a reason he took them when it was actually more recreational.
The State and the Feds are legally "separate sovereigns," meaning that both can be charged concurrently. That's often why the charges by one don't reflect the other. There's no need to choose which to "go along with."
Not sure why you're speaking so declaratively, when you (clearly) do not understand the nature of an Attempt charge.
All that must be shown that he (1) committed the illegal act, with (2) the requisite intent for a given affect, in order for him to be found guilty.
Probability (and even possibility) of success in the attempt, is not mitigation. Thus, the likelihood at the plane could've remained airborne, for a sufficient period of time for pilots to restart engines and maintain control, has absolutely no bearing on the charge of Attempt.
That said, it's rare for aviation-related criminal incidents to not be charged Federally, first and foremost.
States will sometimes try their own charges on an aviation case as well, especially if everything from takeoff-to-landing occurred in/over a single state; but they often don't, as questions of jurisdiction can sometimes muddy an otherwise straightforward prosecution.
Yeah, I neglected to include IMO in that reply. IANAL, just a pilot. But my point remains, those charges are a stretch (IMO). And I'd be shocked if they held up.
My point was that he was carrying a gun, apparently didn’t know, and managed to pass through security and wasn’t apprehended until his arrival.
A vast number of Americans are on meds in addition to carrying guns.
He also claims it was an honest mistake. Lol. Yes. Republicans and guns. Imagine what had happened had he taken it out inflight. It was in his cabin baggage.
Hopefully he gets imprisoned under HK legislation.
Imagine asking before he travelled “ did you pack the gun?” I meant gum. lol
FAA physicals are a joke. Most pilots go to a separate doctor to get their FAA physical (not their real primary care doctor), to disclose as little as possible to get the FAA medical sign off. Pilots absolutely avoid ever disclosing mental health issues in that context to avoid losing their livelihood. The FAA basically yanks your license if you admit to any degree of depression, which prevents pilots from getting treatment.
The problem is that the FAA will yank your license (pretty much permanently) if you admit even mild depression. A lot of pilots would probably benefit from SSRIs for depression, but it's essentially impossible to be a licensed pilot and take Prozac. I wonder if this guy turned to psychedelics because he had no path to pursue conventional medical treatment for depression and maintain his livelihood. Unfortunately, this incident will probably only cause the FAA to double down on its current policy.
All you just did here was double-down on your initial ignorant-of-the-law stance, lol.
No offense, but the only reason you'd be "shocked" is because you have no idea what you're talking about.
I mean, I'm no Robert H. Jackson... but I have been doing this for the better part of two decades, and can easily say that these charges are WELL within the scope of the occurrence, if indeed what's been made public thus far is an accurate recitation of events.
Um, yeah I thought the phrase "but my point remains" was pretty clear, but thanks for the legal interpretation that I was doubling down. That's the beauty of a free society, I am allowed to hold opinions that are different than yours. I mean, I'm not a political scientist or political strategist, but I do have thoughts on upcoming elections too. Imagine that.
Just so we're clear, if the accused is tried and convicted of attemped murder, or accepts a plea deal whereby he pleads guilty to attempted murder, we'll mark you down as correct. If not, well we'll just say my OPINION might actually have some merit.
I'm aware of all of that, just it's just odd when someone who clearly knows so little on an issue, is simultaneously so willing to showcase it. Very strange.
To me, the best legal practioners are those that can effectively articulate their point without having to resort to personal insults. Your argument, in my opinion, would be more effective if you just presented facts as opposed to attempting to belittle someone else that feels differently than you. Just comes across as very Trump-esque in my opinion. Maybe you'll be proven correct and he'll be convicted of attempted murder, idk. I do know that I'd be more than happy to take that bet from "ConcordeBoy"
Says the middle-aged man with an advanced degree that calls himself ConcordeBoy.
Any lawyer who thinks 83 charges of attempted murder fit the facts of this case that have been published should return their law degree to the bottom of whatever crackerjack box they found it in.
The shortcoming in these charges is (2).
You are likely correct, but psychedelics are not quite that predictable and depend on individual body chemistry.
"Flashbacks" do occur in rare cases, they have been reported in some cases to be associated with stressful situations, and would fit the reported timeline.
IMO, it's more likely he used them prior to the flight, but we don't really know.
"An off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot who authorities said tried to shut off a passenger jet's engines during an October flight was indicted Tuesday by a grand jury in Portland, Oregon, on seven dozen lesser state charges than the initial attempted murder counts prosecutors originally sought."
"He is also facing a separate case in federal court in which he is charged with a single count of interfering with flight crew members and attendants."
Interesting... it seems as though my "initial ignorant-of-the-law stance" was backed up not only by the grand jury (state case), but also the feds. Perhaps both groups should have talked to ConcordeBoy before reaching their respective decisions 🙂 You're welcome for the free CLE course.