In May 2022, Air France unveiled its new business class product. I wanted to provide an update on this, and especially about when this product will enter service, as there has been a bit of a delay. Let’s take a look at everything we know about Air France’s new business class.
Continue reading: Details: New Air France Business Class Seats With Doors
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
"It’s always nice to see an airline only announce a new product shortly after it enters service, rather than years in advance"
If quality and Skytrax rankings were directly proportional, Skytrax should give Air France at least eleven stars...
Looks the end of Air France first-class, which nobody seems to actually fly save for some people on points or big-time French politicians. Now if only Air France would improve its business-class pillow and blanket.
"It’s always nice to see an airline only announce a new product shortly before it enters service, rather than years in advance (not that I’m thinking of a particular other European airline when making that comment)."
Hah! Love that. And yes, Skytrax are a total farce. But I hope this isn't the end for Air France First Class. Ben - I'd be keen to know, do you personally think that this could lead to a cut in the number of total AF first class seats, in the same way as LH or BA? With AF having got rid of its A380s, it looks increasingly likely...
@ Alex Conway -- I don't think Air France first class is going anywhere. Fewer than half of 777-300ERs currently feature first class, so my guess is that it's some of the other 777s being reconfigured.
We actually have reason to believe that Air France will install first class on some upcoming A350s, so I think the airline is very much committed to maintaining first class. I do find it strange that the airline isn't installing first class on these new jets, since they'll otherwise be the most premium. So you'd think the markets where there's the most demand for the new business class would also be markets with first class demand.
So much better than the Super Diamond reverse herringbone because it doesn't have the tray table impeding your knees. Not as good as the Apex, but at least it's possible to sleep in the Cirrus reverse herringbone. Thank goodness AF stuck with that. SHame I don't fly AF !!
I think the bigger news is the new PE seats; I've never had a chance to sit on AF's current PE on 777 but I read mixed reviews on the fixed shell design.
Aside from the door this looks close to what they curretly have, nice color scheme though.
Wow, GORGEOUS, very exciting. I flew the current J product last summer and it was decent, but definitely felt a bit old. This looks incredible and a real step up.
It must be the last 12 B777-300 who have the old "NEV4 Nouveaux Espaces de Voyage" number 4 iteration seats in Business (first iteration dated back almost 20 years ago.
Those are usually for leisure routes such as Bangkok or Montreal...
And any new updated aircraft goes almost always first to New-York.
Note that French politicians do not fly AF First class. The government has 7 planes in VIP configurations, otherwise high-ranked civil servants are in business class, you need a special authorization for first class. The use of public money is closely monitored. AF first class is mostly for C-level executives and celebrities.
Doors, schmoors. I really do not understand the weird door fetish.
Now, how about something that's actually important to comfort and the ability to get some sleep: the foot cubby. Is the foot cubby a narrow, tight, triangle? (Kinda looks that way...).
Skytrax Ranking is directly proportional on how much money the airlines spends on Skytrash‘s ‚consulting‘ services.
Can they please also reconfigure those leisure 777s with angled seats in a 2-3-3 config. I flew one 2wks ago from RUN-CDG an 11.5hr flight and that seat is awful. Yet business class was full.
Woah that definitely came out of nowhere! Not sure how I feel about the finishes, there are definitely some very nice touches like the seahorse and the carpet, but I feel like there's still a little too much white overall.
The other REALLY exciting thing of course being the new PE seats. I would be perfectly happy in PE with these seats for the short TATL flights, but right now it's either business or economy for me - I once declined a PE upgrade because the current ones are so atrocious and would rather fly coach.
I also wonder if the bulkhead will come at a slight premium or be reserved for elites, as it looks significantly more spacious on the pictures.
Great, let's slap a door on it! Honestly, I think either of AF's fully flat seats are totally fine as-is... would love to see the money invested in making the food even better!
The subfleet of 2-3-2 aircraft (42J in current config), aka NEV4, will be the ones getting this new seat
Yeah, the bulkhead seats look to have a huge amount of storage and/or guest seating.
When doors are "so 2017", what are Lufthansa's current businessclass seats then??
Sixties?
Agreed. Foot cubby size in most J/F I've flown (TK, QR, AF, DL, KL, CP, BA, RJ...) have all sucked. To me anyway, it's hard to get any good sleep when my 6'3" frame and size 13's are contorted into a bretzel.
Is this for the CDG route or the ORY one? (The ORY doesn't currently have first class so there'd be no revenue loss there...)
I think white cabins are hard to do well without it looking sterile/cheap (cc: Delta One, who has beautiful seats and then weird cabin finishes), will be interesting to see if AF pulls this off well.
CDG according to TPG, I think AF still runs really really dated planes on most of their ORY routes.
Whilst in appears fresh and clean all the seats are positioned next to the aisle for window seats and again door cubbys? it’s not very cutting edge just more of the same - QR started it, ( years ago )maybe they will introduce something amazing soon and it will once again set the standard
What we really need is a biz seat with a door AND a roof, ultimate privacy!!!!
(not that I’m thinking of a particular other European airLHine when making that statement). - ahahah that gold!
Maybe someone should email Carsten Spohr the link to this article.
I wonder how well white interior parts and components will age.
Again and again this bag Premium class. I don't understand this choice of this cabin. This is an aconomy seat with little bit more space but loose many square meter in the plane. Can have more total seats with less Premium. 48 is too much.
At JFK we currently have 7 daily flights to Paris. Flights 023, 007 and 011 offer La Premiere cabins. Flight 15 and 17 are usually an A350, Flight 019 to Orly is a 772, and Flight 009 is either a 772 or 789. Love the new J cabins and, combined with a superior soft product, AF is poised to keep its dominant premium NYC-PAR position.
Doors, doors, doors, doors, doors.
To be honest, these (reverse) herringbone configs with a door slapped on it are often actually a worse experience. It confines the seat and make the cabin feel cluttered.
If the door is truly part of a suite design (SQ, QR, EK F) then it makes more sense, but otherwise I'd happily take a decent reverse herringbone set-up without these silly doors obscuring the view from your seat.
I agree with you that current PE is a disaster, and I tend to avoid it and either fly Y or J, depending on availability. But do these new PE seats actually recline, or are they still inside a shell? I can't tell from the photo, but if they don't actually recline then they aren't much of an improvement.
Nevermind, I googled it and see that these aren't in a shell. This is great! Much better news than the business class seats, which are essentially the same thing that already exists with bigger screens and new aesthetic (and doors, which I find to be useless at best).
Agree, this is basically exactly the same seat with a door. Not sure this was necessary, although the larger screens will be nice.
What a ghastly horrible bland featureless business class cabin. Looks like a sterile white ward at the hospital. I used to think that the French were the masters of haute culture and fashion, but Air France should know better than this after they killed off their A380 business with the same lack of beautiful exciting premium cabins as their competitors. They must have been short of funds to pay a proper designer and got their Board to design it during the last 5 minutes of a Board meeting. Why would any business class passenger want to pay a premium to sit in a barren featureless wasteland like this. Like their A380's, they will be retiring these wide-body aircraft soon too saying that they can't make them pay when all they had to do to find the reason was to look in the mirror. Have all of the French lost their joie de vie or just Air France?
Considering these seats are consistently fully booked the Paris-JFK flights, it's definitely not too many. Just flew RT last week and there wasn't a single empty seat on either flight.
I don't understand this obsession with doors. I mean, if you need privacy on a plane that badly, what on earth are you doing in your seat?? And if you need privacy so much, then why do you fly commercial? Clearly, your only solution is to rent a private jet. Then you can have all the privacy you want.
That's right, those new ones recline. Haven't had a chance to try them yet on the A350, but it surely can't be worse than the shell ones!
Airlines should still offer both USB-A and USB-C.
Wireless charging is so unnecessary imo.
Wireless bluetooth technology is great.
Four-across premium economy is brutal. They could easy put the new A321neo Delta domestic-style privacy dividers on each seat. That would be nice.
But as for Air France business-class seat with doors, I'd rather Air France give me a better blanket and pillow than doors on the seat. Their current business-class bedding is atrocious.
Agree, don’t really understand this obsession with doors. Flew Delta One suites last week which is the first time I’ve flown on a J seat that had a door and found it pretty claustrophobic. Left the door open most of the flight.
You fools that don't like doors - it's optional. Don't use the door. Jesus.
There are people that like privacy you know who will happily use the door.
I enjoy the doors great idea-to totally relax on the plane and arrive at your destination you need total privacy. And if customers do not like doors they have a choice. I have flown with and without doors I definitely prefer the seats with doors and i have a choice to keep it open or close it. Thank the engineers for thinking about our comfort in all seat classes. Love to fly in any airplane seat, especially Business class.
Looks very like the new BA Business/Club on their A350’s, although with AF the soft product will be better.
A good friend of mine flew with Air France a couple of times for work in the early nineties. He said many of the staff are very rude and refused to speak English.
At least on the Latin American flights, the foreign staff all know English as well as Spanish and offer western food. If you are an international carrier flying to America, you quite simply need to be able to also speak English on board.
I have a flight booked from ATL-CDG on 18th July 23. That shows the new configuration. Let's see if I end up in the new seats with doors.
Doors are incredible. I flew from PNS to WOW with a door was able join the mile high club solo.
I’m over it. I know Ben gets all orgasmic over doors and heightened privacy on a plane. The doors on many aircraft is why I avoid the airline. This configuration with doors looks horrible.
I do not care about doors either…I would welcome a more comfortable product. The AF flight I took in Business in March had such a miserably rock-hard seat/bed that I didn’t sleep at all….I’ve always liked Air France…so hoping this is a good thing!
Wait… a friend in the early ‘90s? Holding a grudge from 30 years ago? I can confirm that Air France will speak English on their flights to the US and it won’t be an issue.
Refused? I flew AF yesterday twice. On the international leg the staff spoke French, English, German, Italian and, wait for it, Creole. On the European leg French, English and Spanish. There are many issues with AF (like a comment below the rock hard lie flats and lack of mattress liners) but language is not one of them.
I really hope it’s the old 777s that get the new seats (or indeed anything better than the current 2-3-2 in J). I have a rule not to fly on AF if it’s an old 777 or on any EK 777 due to the 2-3-2 layout. Unfortunately due to a cancelled KL flight from BKK to AMS I was recently re-routed on an AF 777. Absolutely horrible and a disgrace that AF charges the same amount as on its 1-2-1 layout. Crew were wonderful.
The fools are not people who like or not like doors.
The real fools are people who thinks doors provide privacy.
Is it just me or is there really no new information at all in this “update” post?
@ Frog -- The primary purpose of the update was to share the new timeline for the plane entering service. It was supposed to start flying as of September, but has been delayed by roughly three months. I had received some readers questions about why the plane wasn't in service, which is what prompted the update.
So it's basically their regular reverse herringbone seat, but with a door and minor cosmetic changes.
I've got a AF booking CDG to NRT next July and currently the seat map is showing 48 business class seats so looks like the plan to roll this out on that route.
What is the purpose of these doors?They don't stop intruders, neither do they give you privacy. Take my door off and give me back my portion of savings including fuel savings!
Some of us don't want to be disturbed when sleeping. For some, a closed door means please don't bother me right now.
Exactly, real fools are people who thinks closed door means please don't bother me. You even admit it "for some", so it doesn't work all the time.
I'm sure without the invention of door, a lot of people don't get disturbed when sleeping.
" Take my door off and give me back my portion of savings including fuel savings!"
That's the concept of LCC, you should fly lowcost next time.
As little as I use the "music" part of my IFE, I don't go demanding back my portion of savings from license fees. Even if these doors are as useless as inflight music.
Wrong again, Eskimo. Privacy is based on individual perception. Your definition of privacy differs from mine - and will differ from a large swath of people. Which is why optionality is important. You think Air France just tosses away money without actually doing research first?
The mistake you're making is simply falling prey to the False Consensus effect ... and this is garden variety bias, mind you. Try stepping out of yourself for a moment and think instead of spitballing on here.
If you don't like the door, just leave it open. If the addition of a door makes business class unaffordable to you, then it sounds like you shouldn't be flying business anyway.
Don't give the airlines any new ideas!
I can already see airlines charging to use doors and IFE.
Anyway, on a more serious note, I agree with what you're saying. If you follow this line of thinking, your ticket should get discounted if you don't use the tray table, IFE screen, in-seat storage, overhead bins, power ports, etc. In other words they'll charge you for literally everything. While I support the idea of giving customers choice, this is taking it too far IMHO.
Love the first class cabin but the white interior on the business class suites are going to be a mess in a few months. Grays or blues will hide the marks much better. An improvement overall, but poor color choice.
Welcome to the 2010s AF. . .catching up to BA and AA along with your friend DL.
The problem with these doors is that he low door height rly gives no extra privacy when someone is walking by as they can easily see right over the door. FAs on flights with BA's new seats serve meals over the door.
They may give a slight amount of extra privacy from other passengers who are seated but these seats were already angled in a way where passengers could not rly see each other when seated.
In short, until they raise the height of the walls and doors around a seat, adding a door adds virtually nothing.
Years ago, Air France was the universal butt of hundreds of jokes about how dirty the outside of their aircraft were. It took till the very late nineties for AF to successfully address this issue.
With an all-white J cabin, the outside has now come in. The pics look great and are very photogenic for a PR release. In practice, white plastic will be impossibly difficult to keep clean, and resist scratches and marks. I give each cabin about 3-4 months in daily operation before they start to look tired, tatty and grubby. Either that, or AF will be paying an absolute fortune for some very detailed, very regular, intense in-cabin cleaning staff. But there is no denying: it looks pretty, at least for now. Sterile or not.
Doors are like eye masks to me. I never understood why anyone would wear masks to sleep and then I realized how much faster I fall asleep with them. I don't love them but I can't deny how effective they are. Doors are the same to me. When I nap without doors I will eventually zone out but I do notice that before that happens my brain is aware of people walking pass. That sensation doesn't happen when I have a door. Maybe that doesn't happen to heavy sleepers but on a plane my brain/spidey senses are too hyper.
Flew with them recently, the hard product good but worn out the soft product is not very good they have a long way to go
And those 777 will be retrofited with La Premiere and the Premium Eco will srink from the 48 seats. Business wilm be 47.
The only problem with that thinking is that the space for that door has to come from somewhere, usually by shaving an inch from the seat width, or reducing storage space, etc. So it's not enough to just say "well, if you don't like doors, you don't have to close them!" If you're in a seat with a door, you've already paid the biggest price (reduced usable space) regardless of whether you keep the door open or closed.
It's for that reason that I personally don't like doors. If they're there, I'll use them, but I'd rather have the extra space. I've noticed this trend that as business class seats have become more private, they've become smaller and thinner. We laugh at the old business class seats of a few decades ago, but in many respects, the seat itself was much more comfortable.
As far as my own preferences, aisle access is definitely worth the decreased space. Not having to step over your seatmate, especially on longhauls where people from different time zones are sleeping at different hours is a genuine benefit, worth the reduction of a few inches of seat length (especially for people like me who like to look out windows from a window seat :-). But I'm not convinced that taking an inch off the seat width to install a door is a good tradeoff (at least for me).
Lol. Did you have an audience looking over the door? Hey, at least that door kept the short kiddies from being able to watch, so I guess you got *some* privacy out of it!
Lol. Did you have an audience looking over the door? Hey, at least that door kept the short kiddies from being able to watch, so I guess you got *some* privacy out of it!
I agree. The ultimate in privacy would be a solitary confinement prison cell. To avoid having to see your fellow passengers even during loading and unloading, each business class passenger should be hooded, strapped into a cart and wheeled to their seat. Then, they should be locked into their cell which will contain a small hole in the floor for when nature calls. Meals will be passed through a narrow slit in the door. Because we're not entirely monsters, you'll still have a 4k 17" screen from which to watch a movie to distract you from the growing urge you'll have to slit your wrists.
Package it up in a nice color scheme and voila! Your next SkyTraxx 7 star business class!
I am flying AF from LAX to PPT at the beginning of March in Business. Anyone know if this is the updated cabin? Thanks!
Do you know if the LAX to CDG and vice versa planes will be retrofitted with this new set up?
I'll be flying Business Class for the first time this December 2023. I'll be flying to Mexico City with Air France on the 777-300 ER, but it seems the old version. Hope that plane won't be too old 🙂 I'm sure my first experience in Business Class will be an amazing one.
I travel monthly in Air France business class (luckily, sometimes in La Premiere). I can’t understand the new configuration and color.
Seats are smaller, space less ample, and you travel confined and immobilized (as you would in Virgin). The table tray is small and can’t work comfortably. And the color makes look the plane older, cluttered, and dirtier.
The new marketing guys are just copy-pasting KLM looks and Delta’s doors.
Anyway, at least there is a great service onboard.