All KLM 777s Now Have New Business Class Seats With Doors

What is your obsession with doors in business class or first class? To me any seat other than coach is good with me. Do doors really matter.

Meanwhile at Onestarhansa................

One thing I find annoying is no bluetooth even on the newest product. Bluetooth is far more useful than wireless charging imo.

I don't think anyone is saying doors make or break a seat. But if you polled most travelers, I'd warrant the majority would prefer having a door to not having a door.

It just adds a psychological sense of privacy/separation from the rest of the cabin, which makes the flight more comfortable for a lot of people.

It's an improvement many airlines are investing in because they see the increased consumer satisfaction with having doors.

I used to believe doors were a gimmick, but a few weeks ago I was finally able to try a business seat with doors and a some days later I was on a similar flight but without the doors.

Now, I feel doors do make a difference in comfort. For me the most noticeable thing was that it was easier to try to sleep (I sleep really badly when on a plane) because the door mitigated most of the visual distractions of crew and passengers coming and going. Silly thing, I know, but that's what surprised me the most.

I wish they would do something about their generally awful catering. It’s poor from Amsterdam , which isn’t know for its cuisine, however from some outstations it’s terrible. I believe Air France and KLM also use the same suppliers at many, however it’s like night and day. AF will also introduce free Starlink WiFi, however no news from KLM.

What is the situation with 1) KLM baggage handling and 2) Amsterdam airport operations?

@Todd:

Glad to see I am not the only one wondering about his weird obsession with doors. Doors that don't even actually close as there is a gap and they are not high enough to provide true privacy.

I wouldn't say their catering is awful. It's actually quite decent in business class. Well their long haul catering, at any rate. Those inter-European box meals need to go.

It isn’t “his” obsession. I would think many people seem to greatly value them, otherwise airlines wouldn’t invest in them…. Literally every new business class seat has doors (I believe), so it’s pretty clear there are many who like them.

All is back to normal. My far preferred airport for O/D and transit through Europe (sky team)

just like the AVOD vs. streaming option (on airlines that offer some form of in-flight entertainment), the vast majority of passengers on planes with doors that close use them at some point during the flight.

You don't have to close them but you have a choice if they are there.

Why are people so polarized about products getting doors?

If you don't care about having a door then don't use it. I don't think most people would avoid booking an airline because the seat does or doesn't have a door.

A lot of people use them, otherwise airlines wouldn't be installing products with them. It's an industry trend to incorporate them into the seats.

It's always the same dumb comments being made about "I don't care about doors", when it's really not that deep.

@ Todd -- I'm not sure what makes you think I'm obsessed with doors? It's the direction the industry is headed, I'm acknowledging it, but I'm not "obsessed" with them. I mean, I mostly like them, but I also have lots of business class seats without doors that I like.

I was wondering, is there a specific herringbone product you prefer over the other e.g. Safran Cirrus, JAMCO Venture, Collins Aerospace Elements, etc.?

I’m surprised to read this post. Can anyone verify that this news is also true for KLM’s 777-200s painted as “KLM Asia”? I’ve been looking at flights to Europe from SFO for the past few weeks. KLM seems to be alternating between 787-10s and KLM Asia 777-200s on this route. For the days where the route is operated on a 777, the flight details have still shown a 2-2-2 configuration in business class.

Unless something changed in the last 3 days, I’m going to say this isn’t accurate. I just flew a KLM 777-200 in 2-2-2.

Do you think many people like paying to select a seat in addition to paying thousands for the ticket? Do you think many people like those stupid rear facing seats?

KLM catering is in long haul J is pretty terrible too. You must have not flown them often enough if you think otherwise. The frequently run out off J meals, and at any rate if you aren’t FB Platinum (and a few lucky gold) you are unlikely to get your first choice. Wines are terrible too. Often down to just one choice for red and white.

@Ben - as you’ve probably noticed from comments on this and other posts, Todd isn’t the only one wondering why you seem to give a disproportionate amount of attention to whether a seat has a door or not. Perhaps someone can get a statistically tool to go through all posts and see if there is any truth to that.

@ Matt — Hmmm, what was the route and date, please?

@ Derek — It should apply to the KLM Asia painted planes as well. Are you seeing the old seat map for the 772 on any future SFO flights?

Not sure what's the deal with those who complain about business class seats with doors. Do you realise that you can keep them open?

Like Ben said in the review... my biggest issue with the new business class seats is the colour scheme. They just look hideous & outdated, even worse than their old Diamond seats.

@ Toby -- I see where you're coming from. Perhaps the issue is that I add it as a descriptor for some seat types. That's simply because it has become a point of differentiation. For example, describing a business class seat as being fully flat or having direct aisle access really isn't very differentiating nowadays. So I mention that the seat has a door when it does.

However, there are lots of business class seats out there without doors that I really enjoy.

I normally don't really respond, but I will make an exception here. I'm from Amsterdam and 1m96 (or 6ft5), which is normal here. I do fly KLM in business a lot to the US. I'm no fan of the 787 seats. Especially the 787-10 seats are very faulty. But these 777 seats, are best in class. I can sleep like I'm in my own bed, with room to spare. It's very comfortable. I've used to fly the US carriers in some cases, but if I see an KLM 777 on the route, I will take it.

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I am still seeing the old configuration showing. I just looked again and the flight from SFO-AMS on 1/1 shows a 2-2-2 configuration.

KL809 - Ams to Kul on 16 Dec.

Ok, it was 5 days ago.

I don’t think they serve any wines with a retail price higher than €10/bottle…

And the “food” in J is absolutely atrocious. My last couple flights out of LAX/SFO, I’ve been served a cheap quesadilla ($0.99 at Taco Bell) with a side of polenta and frozen peas. This was referred to in the menu as a “taste of local delicacies”.

@ Matt -- Interesting. So you were on PH-BQA. Both Planespotters and Airfleets lists the plane as being in a three cabin layout, which the new business class layout. Did you notice if there was premium economy on the jet? It's strange, because the plane is scheduled to fly to Atlanta tomorrow, and premium economy is on sale. As far as I know, KLM retrofitted 777s with both premium economy and the new business at the same time.

Also, the plane was out of service September 3-20, 2024, which is how long the retrofit takes.

Not doubting you, just genuinely confused. For that matter, KLM even put out a press release confirming all 777s now have the new premium economy and business class.

Just so others are misled, the average male height for Dutch males is just under 1m83.

are NOT

Sorry Justin, but if passport control is still as painfully slow at AMS as I experienced in May, then no thanks AMS. Oh, yeah, got my bag 24 hours after my connection arrived.

I will, as of today, no longer read comments about doors. I don't understand the obsession some have against a product you don't have to use. Airlines will give me tequila for free. I don't want it, but I don't obsess on its availability.

@ Mike O. -- For reverse herringbone, the Elements is definitely my favorite:
https://onemileatatime.com/guides/best-business-class-seats/

Nah, I'm flown them plenty, and there many airlines that serve far worse food in J class than they do.

It's actually 184cm. But it's higher if you only look at inhabitants from Dutch ancestry. But I wasn't going for some linguistical adventure. The Netherlands has the most people above 1m90 in the world. So, being between 1m90-1m99 is quite normal. Not average, not everyone is that heigth, nor does it mean there are no persons below 1m80. It's just a normal sight.

I also flew AMS to MIA a couple of weeks ago in the 777 and it was the old 2-2-2 layout which was really uncomfortable

@ Linda S — AMS-MIA is operated by an A330, which would explain the 2-2-2 layout. Those planes aren’t getting new business class seats.

@ Dave - I’m a frequent poster of comments about doors and am absolutely crushed that you will no longer read them. Would you please reconsider?

i will say the one advantage for me is that i can slip on my PJs or change quickly without having to do it in the cramped lav with wet floors

I flew BOG-CTG-AMS last week on a KLM Asia 777; I got a notification before the flight that it was a 2-2-2 layout, but the plane was actually 1-2-1.

Maybe some of their technology hasn’t kept up with the refit?

Passport control for non-EU is still shockingly bad. The only positive is that there appear to be gazillions of new eGates being installed, though not yet operative.

@ Derek -- Looks like it just switched to the 1-2-1 seat map. 🙂

@ben @derek as you identified KLM's technology hasn't quite caught up. When booking certain routes (i.e. AMS -> TPE, which I've just booked today) the description of business class on the booking page is still described as 2-2-2. But when you actually look at the seat map after selecting flights it's the newer 1-2-1

Hi…I’ve booked business class to Shanghai with KLm. My ticket shows the plane is a 787-9, but all the flights seem to be on 777-2 planes. Which is it ? And are the business class seats ( I’ve booked 6A) single or next to someone?

Ben, any extra space advantage in the bulkhead seats line on some of the AF layouts?