American Airlines and United Airlines both have hubs at Chicago O’Hare Airport (ORD), and they sure are battling it out at the moment. United has a significant advantage (in terms of presence and profitability), but American isn’t ready to give up there, and wants to regain market share.
This is becoming fiercely competitive. On the one hand, it seems unlikely that American will be able to make Chicago profitable any time in the near future, or that it’ll be able to overtake United. On the other hand, American can’t cede yet another major market to a competitor.
United CEO Scott Kirby is known for his smack talk, and he’s back on the record talking about Chicago. Not only is he claiming that American will eventually give up on Chicago, but he’s even making the argument that it’ll be good for consumers.
In this post:
Scott Kirby says Chicago should want American to fail
Crain’s Chicago Business has a story about how Kirby is stepping up his rhetoric around the American and United battle in Chicago. He’s claiming that American lost $1.1 billion in Chicago over the course of a year, and that things will only get worse. He argues that “economic gravity is going to eventually win.”
Kirby is predicting that American will just give up eventually on having Chicago as a hub, and when that happens, he wants United to grow to 1,000 daily departures at the airport, with the network growing big enough to sustain 15 additional long haul routes. He argues that kind of growth is only possible if American gives up on the hub, since it requires a lot more gate space.
With Kirby’s vision of American giving up on Chicago, he sees the airport having a future like Atlanta (ATL) or Dallas Fort Worth (DFW), in terms of it being a mega hub with global service.
Of course it’s worth emphasizing that American vehemently denies any claims that it’s even considering retreating in Chicago, arguing it will be investing and competing in Chicago for years to come. The airline also points out that United’s vision is to see an airport with less competition.

My take on Kirby’s Chicago competition narrative
Kirby has done a great job leading United in the right direction, and improving the carrier’s performance. But his narratives just keep getting more extreme, and I can’t help but feel like he’s kind of gaslighting the public.
In terms of total number of nonstop destinations served, would O’Hare probably see more service if American pulled out? Yes, we’d probably see less duplicative service, and as a result, more nonstop destinations, since that’s how fortress hubs usually work.
But this of course completely ignores the other side of the equation, which is that a lack of competition leads to higher fares. Airlines charge as much as they can get away with charging, and that’s typically a function of the competitive environment. Consumers value nonstop flights, so the less competition in nonstop markets, the higher the fares.
Kirby assumes that most passengers want lots of nonstop flights, and don’t at all care about fares. That’s actually consistent with the argument he has made otherwise, about how we’d be better off with one “flag carrier” basically flying everything.
Let’s actually use Kirby’s example of Atlanta and Dallas for a moment. Picking random mid-week dates for next spring for the cheapest roundtrip economy flights from hubs to Tokyo, you’ll find that flights from Chicago to Tokyo cost under $1,500, while flights from Atlanta or Dallas to Tokyo cost around $2,300, so they’re more than 50% higher. The reason for that is simple — lack of competition in fortress hubs drives up fares.



Now, when it comes to Kirby’s math in explaining American’s failure in Chicago, I sort of agree with him, and sort of don’t. Do I believe American is losing a lot of money in Chicago? Probably. Do I think Kirby’s numbers are massively inflated, and he’s basically taking the direct operating loss, without factoring in the positive impact of loyalty revenue, etc., which absolutely factors into profitability for airlines? Yes.
All that being said, I also don’t really see how this will end well for American. United definitely isn’t going to give up its number one position in Chicago. But what choice does American really have, other than to compete? In terms of its overall network, the airline needs a hub in the Midwest, and simply giving up there won’t end well either.
As long as both airlines are competing, consumers will win. But I guess Kirby is hoping that trash talking keeps moving things in a certain direction.

Bottom line
United CEO Scott Kirby has long predicted American’s failure in Chicago, or at least that’s what he’s hoping. United is the bigger of the two airlines, is losing less money in Chicago, and definitely isn’t willing to let American make any gains. So while this narrative isn’t new overall, what is new is Kirby’s claim that “when” American pulls out of Chicago, United will be able to increase service there, and it’ll be good for consumers.
Make no mistake — if Chicago turns into a fortress hub, it absolutely may see more nonstop destinations. However, that will massively drive up fares. So Kirby believes that consumers don’t care about the cost of tickets, but instead, just the number of nonstop destinations.
What do you make of Kirby’s latest comments about Chicago?
If Kirby really wanted to benefit consumers in Chicago, he would fund replacement of T1 and T5 at O'Hare. Ghastly airport.
CEOs just say what shareholders want to hear. Whatever
I don't think I'd really benefit that much. Now, I fly on somebody else's dime, so I'm agnostic about fares. However, a lot of my flying is O&D to small destinations in the Midwest. Between AA and UA, I'm pretty much covered. I fully do not expect a dominant UA to backfill all of those regionals, which leaves me with long drives at my destination. I like the convenience I have now.
As a non-Chicago resident, I guess I don’t have a dog in this fight. That said, it would be an interesting experiment to see the impact on fares that would result from an AA withdrawal. I can definitely see fares going up, but I also am not sure that Atlanta or Dallas (to use the examples Lucky cited) are comparable to Chicago from either a business or tourism perspective. To go off of the Tokyo...
As a non-Chicago resident, I guess I don’t have a dog in this fight. That said, it would be an interesting experiment to see the impact on fares that would result from an AA withdrawal. I can definitely see fares going up, but I also am not sure that Atlanta or Dallas (to use the examples Lucky cited) are comparable to Chicago from either a business or tourism perspective. To go off of the Tokyo example, even if AA were to withdraw from O’Hare, I can’t imagine JAL is going to stop flying there — whereas they don’t fly to Atlanta at all (and presumably only fly to DFW because of AA’s feed there). I think that same logic can probably be applied on a lot of different routes; Chicago is a destination in and of itself — Dallas and Atlanta definitely aren’t.
By now Dallas is a heavy business travel destination and should be considered a pretty massive metropolis. A depressing, ugly, too-big-for-its-own-good metropolis, but still. Dallas has significant populations from all corners of the world, especially the Eastern Hemisphere.
I think though that AA is a poor choice in connecting traffic due to its location compared to ORD
Parker did one thing right, fire Kirby. While not an Isom fan, they are starting to dig out of the financial mess that he was left to deal with and improving passenger experience. I live in an AA hub city and fromerly live in a NWA/DL Hub, and hoestly my AA experiences have been good to great and no complaints (especially during Covid when I'd have to fly to visit my elderly and dying parents...
Parker did one thing right, fire Kirby. While not an Isom fan, they are starting to dig out of the financial mess that he was left to deal with and improving passenger experience. I live in an AA hub city and fromerly live in a NWA/DL Hub, and hoestly my AA experiences have been good to great and no complaints (especially during Covid when I'd have to fly to visit my elderly and dying parents every few weeks. . .THANK YOU to the amazin AA crews!). Kirby will have UA in bankrupcy in 5 years given the redicoulious expansion internationally (not enough passengers for 6 of those 10 new routes to make money) and his foulish airplane orders (since both AA and DL have priority over UA at both Boeing and Airbus for slots and pricing). ORD will be lucky to have AA when UA retrenches in 5 years and faster if they buy B6.
Is UA better sure, but they couldn't have gotten worse and those changes were set into motion under previous management, not with higher labor cost and fuel, Kriby kissing trumps @%% won't help him much longer and the bankers will start calling for their money soon.
This guy should stop smelling his own farts. AA is not going to abandon ORD. It's Chicago, not Kansas City or St Louis.
If American or United want to compete with global carriers, they can start with appearance standards for in-flight crew and training them to provide basic service, starting with getting eye level with their seated customer when taking orders.
ORD construction works to UA's advantage. Concourse D with 19 new gates and customs (CBP) opening in 2028 will make UA connections, especially int’l ones far easier. Then, when Concourse E with 14 new gates opens in 2030, UA customers won’t even need to bother with the E or F Concourses which will then be demolished. Then, there are the new incoming aircraft and continued upgauging by UA.
UA: 1,132 aircraft, (240 WB), Orders: 175...
ORD construction works to UA's advantage. Concourse D with 19 new gates and customs (CBP) opening in 2028 will make UA connections, especially int’l ones far easier. Then, when Concourse E with 14 new gates opens in 2030, UA customers won’t even need to bother with the E or F Concourses which will then be demolished. Then, there are the new incoming aircraft and continued upgauging by UA.
UA: 1,132 aircraft, (240 WB), Orders: 175 WB/421 NB (15.0 average fleet age)
AA: 1,030 aircraft, (137 WB), Orders: 19 WB/267 NB (14.7 average fleet age)
DL: 987 aircraft, (180 WB), Orders: 84 WB/248 NB (15.0 average fleet age)
From 2026 through April 2028, United will take delivery of approximately 260 new aircraft, including 47 787s, while retiring more than 100 older, less-efficient aircraft. It is also adding 22 gates at IAH and 14 at IAD in 2026, while rapidly upgrading connectivity, with approximately 1,000 aircraft expected to have Starlink by year-end 2026 and the entire wide body fleet connected before next summer. United Next should also be complete by the end of next year.
As for the debt, UA’s orders during Covid were on such favorable terms, approximately 65% discounts from list prices (normally 40%-60% for majors), that amazingly, they are accretive. UA execs are forecasting double digit margins in 2027 even with all the aircraft deliveries.
The proof is in the pudding when you look at the last ten years’ growth, deliveries and debt retirement. UA & DL’s net debt are both around 2.0.
Fleet size 2016/2026:
UA: 737/1,132 +385/54%
AA: 930/1,030 +100/11%
DL: 832/1,004 +172/21%
CBP won't open until Global Terminal opens in 2033. They'll get the benefit of gate usage in the battle for annual lease gate allocation math, but it doesn't solve international problems until 2033, when both AA and UA get the benefit of the CBP in Terminal 2.
Kirby drinking his own cool aid again
Kirby has gotten to the point where he has no credibility with these ridiculous statements. United is a piece of trash airline. Would never willing set foot on one of their trash heap planes.
Kirby is just trolling. He knows American fills all of Terminal 3 and runs those flights full or nearly full.
If i was an investor in UA i would be worried with the CEO's statements. He wants mergers with competitors or wants them out of his hubs. Makes me wonder is there is some financial tsunami about to strike UA earnings results. Is it the high oil prices or the high price of acquiring those brand new jets. Or is it just a simple case of AA living rent free in the CEO's head.
So, according to Mr. Kirby, consumers benefit... when there's *less* competition? (This freakin' guy...) When an airline drives its competitor out of a hub, fares go up. Period. Not 'more choice' or whatever lies they try to spin. (Fares, generally, have gone up since Spirit has been gone, too.)
It is interesting to look at the recent 2027 route announcements and see how both carriers are investing in their more profitable northeastern hubs (EWR and PHL) which of course also have shorter distances to Europe, and neither of them is doing much at all with Chicago
Chicago is just in an awkward point.
Too much backtracking for the East Coast populations for Europe. Too far from the West Coast to be the ideal connecting hub to Europe. Does ok for Asia, but can't beat the West Coast hubs for that either.
O&D is getting watered down with how their metro population is stagnating.
"...their metro population is stagnating."
Chicago's population has actually seen net growth for the past three years (sclerotic as it may be), and this can also be seen in the increase in costs for housing (while a ~1.5% increase YOY in some areas doesn't spell economic buoyancy, it does show demand is beginning to bounce back, however slowly.
But 100% agree that it's too far from the east and west coasts, thus making some...
"...their metro population is stagnating."
Chicago's population has actually seen net growth for the past three years (sclerotic as it may be), and this can also be seen in the increase in costs for housing (while a ~1.5% increase YOY in some areas doesn't spell economic buoyancy, it does show demand is beginning to bounce back, however slowly.
But 100% agree that it's too far from the east and west coasts, thus making some of the connecting flight options less than desirable - and that's difficult for me to say, as a huge Chicago booster (born in the city and raised in the 'burbs). But your point is one I hadn't thought of - great food for thought, thank you for that.
agreed on awkward positioning but for me i actually prefer Chicago for TATL flights over NYC/BOS/etc since I can usually get an extra hour of sleep (assuming same award price)
I have to position anyway so I frequently start with Chicago
Kirby addressed this in his talk, saying that it was due to the FAA flight restrictions that are in place through the next year because of the construction and ATC issues and that they plan to grow the network again once this is lifted.
It’s crazy that the FAA basically forced ~200 daily flights to be cut from the 2027 schedule and O’Hare is *still* the busiest airport in the world by aircraft movement.
United is much better than it was 5 years ago but Kirby is a bit annoying with his grudge against American.
This is the same kind of drivel and arrogance that you see at Delta these days.
Scott Kirby has done some good with his leadership, but pride cometh before the fall as they say. If he keeps going down this path with spouting nonsense, United just becomes another Delta.
Kirby has no idea what he's talking about most of the time and should almost never be taken seriously. He's on the top list of inflated egos.