In the past, I’ve written about a couple of Lufthansa first class downgrades that I dealt with over time. The first was caused by an aircraft swap (to a plane without first class), while the second was due to a broken seat.
Reader Owais asked for my take on an attempted Lufthansa first class downgrade situation he just dealt with, and I can’t really make sense of it…
In this post:
Threatened with Lufthansa first class downgrade in Chicago?!
Yesterday morning, reader Owais redeemed Air Canada Aeroplan points for his parents to fly Lufthansa first class from Chicago (ORD) to London (LHR) via Frankfurt (FRA). This was booked day of departure, since Lufthansa often only makes first class award space available to partner programs within a couple of days of departure.
I’ve even reviewed the e-ticket, and everything looked as it’s supposed to, with the long haul flight being in the “O” fare class (the standard Star Alliance first class award fare bucket).
However, when Owais’ parents arrived at the airport and went to the first class check-in line, they were reportedly met by an unhelpful check-in agent, who pointed them to the economy line. Owais mentions that his mother can be sarcastic, and it’s possible that she rubbed the Lufthansa representative the wrong way. The initial interaction reportedly went as follows:
“Economy class is that way”
“We’re in first”
“First class?” (sarcastically)
“Yes do you have a problem with that?”
“No, but actually first class check in is over there”
“Why don’t you look at the screen on top of your desk it says first class check-in”
“Ma’am, it’s over there”
When the parents were checked in, they were informed that they were actually booked in premium economy, and not first class, and if they wanted to fly first class, they’d have to pay the fare difference.
Now, “O” is the award fare class for Lufthansa first class, but it’s also the revenue fare class for Air Canada premium economy. However, everything about the ticket was 100% correct, it was confirmed in first class, charged based on first class, and the seat map shown on Air Canada’s website was even for first class.
So Owais called up Aeroplan, and at the same time, pulled up the reservation on Lufthansa’s website. Lufthansa’s website confirmed that the booking was in first class, but displayed seat assignments in premium economy.
While on hold with Aeroplan, Owais texted his parents and told them to ask the Lufthansa representative to call Aeroplan’s partner desk, and to inform him they’d file a UK261 claim. Five minutes later, before an Aeroplan agent even picked up the phone, he heard from his parents that everything had been taken care of, and that they had been reassigned seats in first class.
When his mother asked how it was resolved, the Lufthansa representative reportedly said “Air Canada agreed to pay the difference between the booking classes.”
Owais asks me the following:
Does this whole situation seem fishy to you? Obviously different airlines have different fare codes but if the operating airline is showing the fare code for first class wouldn’t that suffice? Was this a scam trying to get money out of older people who wouldn’t know better that evaporated when they realized the victims knew their rights? Does Lufthansa allow non-revs in first class, and were they trying to give the seats to a friend?
For what it’s worth, there ended up only being one other passenger in first class on this flight (it was operated by an A340-600 with eight first class seats).
What could explain this weird downgrade situation?
I’ve been doing this a long time, and ordinarily I feel like I at least have a good inclination of what might have happened. However, in this situation, I’m stumped. I suppose the logical explanation is either that there was a rogue representative, or some sort of a system glitch.
The key detail to me here is that while the travelers were at the airport, the Lufthansa website showed them as being confirmed in first class, while showing premium economy seat assignments. A few thoughts:
- If this was some sort of a system glitch, this is the first time in all of my years that I’ve heard of a Lufthansa first class award ticket accidentally booking into premium economy
- I’m surprised that a Lufthansa representative even knew that “O” was the revenue premium economy fare class for Air Canada
- I don’t think this was some scheme for the agent to pocket an upgrade fee and try to take advantage of elderly passengers; there’s just too much oversight of airline systems, and that’s just way too risky
So the best theory I can come up with — and it’s not even a good one — is that the Lufthansa representative just had a bit of an attitude, didn’t like that he got an attitude back, and he screwed with them a bit. Now, that still seems really strange, but it seems more likely to me than the other theories. It’s telling how quickly this was all resolved, and also that no price for the upgrade was ever given.
The one thing I’m confused by is how a Lufthansa representative can assign someone a seat in premium economy when they’re confirmed in first class. Does the system even allow that? I wouldn’t think so, but…
I think there is one small lesson here, regardless — always check your booking directly on the website of the airline you’re flying with. In his email to me, Owais even proactively said he should have done that, but the ticket was booked day of departure, he was at work, and Air Canada’s website even let him select seats, so he didn’t get around to it.
Bottom line
A couple booked in Lufthansa first class using Air Canada Aeroplan points were informed at check-in that they were actually booked in premium economy. This makes absolutely no sense, especially since the ticket appeared to be issued correctly.
While they were initially told that they’d have to pay the fare difference for first class, that didn’t end up being the case. Fortunately this story had a positive ending, though I’m still puzzled how something like this could happen in the first place.
What do you make of this Lufthansa first class downgrade story?
The fact that the booking was confirmed in first class but allowing only seats in premium economy suggests it's a system glitch. What might have happened is a de-synchro issue between the booking (Altea RES) and the airport (Altea DCS CM) systems.
I don't think the agent was trying to manually downgrade them, though he probably wasn't extremely helpful.
Same day ticket.
Couldn't be bothered to check.
But lordy lordy look what a long post this made.
Pax screwed up. If you can't be bothered to check your res -- oh but they were someone's parents which makes it ok to be nonchalanat -- don't complain.
I'm surprised "it all worked out" no thanks for AC, an O (it wasn't an O if it was paid in miles) but hey. Why not complain...
Same day ticket.
Couldn't be bothered to check.
But lordy lordy look what a long post this made.
Pax screwed up. If you can't be bothered to check your res -- oh but they were someone's parents which makes it ok to be nonchalanat -- don't complain.
I'm surprised "it all worked out" no thanks for AC, an O (it wasn't an O if it was paid in miles) but hey. Why not complain and moan and bitch and whine. Everyone else is at fault because you booked SAME DAY and COULDN'T BE BOTHERED to vfy the pnr.
If the agent saw a computer screen that showed first class with premium economy seat assignments, I can imagine that the non-empowered agents in this day and age would just say, 'computer says no' and not really work to help you.
I absolutely don‘t know what nonrev would have to do with this?
This is a nice privilege, but nothing to be overly jelous about.
Most staff member cannot fly first class nonrev. There are some exceptions to this.
Of course, there is a little percentage of Lufthansa cockpit crew behaving like they own the company and think they could upgrade their relatives as they wish even before boarding. However, this got a...
I absolutely don‘t know what nonrev would have to do with this?
This is a nice privilege, but nothing to be overly jelous about.
Most staff member cannot fly first class nonrev. There are some exceptions to this.
Of course, there is a little percentage of Lufthansa cockpit crew behaving like they own the company and think they could upgrade their relatives as they wish even before boarding. However, this got a lot stricter in recent years (thankfully) and station staff won‘t fulfil such requests at all, especially not in the US. Station staff would usually never dare to downgrade rev pax for their or crew‘s relatives on purpose.
Star alliance airlines keep having these issues. Worst of all, staff are not often aware of these problems and it is always a problem to have them sorted out. Something similar has happened to me flying TAP Portugal and Ethiopian. Whereas Z booking class is a regular, paid, business class tariff for TAP, for Ethiopian it is used for a miles issued tickets or upgrades. So I have had various paid business class e-tickets issued...
Star alliance airlines keep having these issues. Worst of all, staff are not often aware of these problems and it is always a problem to have them sorted out. Something similar has happened to me flying TAP Portugal and Ethiopian. Whereas Z booking class is a regular, paid, business class tariff for TAP, for Ethiopian it is used for a miles issued tickets or upgrades. So I have had various paid business class e-tickets issued by TAP with Ethiopian flights and have had numerous problems. In Europe, with more or less difficulty, it is solved at the gate but try to check in at Addis Ababa with a business class ticket issued by TAP on booking fare Z and the nightmare starts. They say it is not business class, they get a supervisor to come, eventually they figure out it is business class but for them it was a business class upgrade which in Ethiopian airlines means economy class luggage allowance....so then they don't want to check in your luggage...until it gets solved it takes a good 2 hours. I have written plenty of complaints to both airlines but this keeps happening.
While it happened a decade ago, I booked LH business class via United miles from ord to muc, they didn't speak English well but a friend who can helped them at the check in. The agent was not very pleasant I was told. In the first day, the agent falsely reported my father to be arrested and the police handcuffed my father at the gate! Just image this! And the police later realised that it...
While it happened a decade ago, I booked LH business class via United miles from ord to muc, they didn't speak English well but a friend who can helped them at the check in. The agent was not very pleasant I was told. In the first day, the agent falsely reported my father to be arrested and the police handcuffed my father at the gate! Just image this! And the police later realised that it was mistaken and apologised but my parents missed the flight. At 4am, the police took my father to the airport for rebooking, but only United was open and the agent apologised and booked them in first class because business was full on that day. At the check in, the same agent downgraded my parents to economy because they were upgraded to first for free. How horrible is that after a false arrest??? They still treated my father as a criminal. I filed a complaint to the lh which said it is the company policy to downgrade to economy instead of upgrading but two years later I read a blog post about two white parents of a blogger got upgraded for free even without a status. I filed a complaint for discrimination but at the time dot and Lufthansa never took discrimination cases seriously and ended up with nothing. So I never flew LH since then. I never support companies that systematically discriminate people. They exist because people pay them. Sadly many people still complain and support them financially. I have a feeling that the agent was racist given the name is owais.... I hope this blog also takes LH issues more seriously instead of supporting it financially
Mom sounds like a clown... im sure she was half the problem of this equation...
I'd just take the PE and pocket the price difference from EU261 lol. Probably looking at 10k if not more.
That's not how it works.
Kudos to the person for fixing the problem. It sounds like the O fare code misinterpretation, bad employee attitude , and the demanding customer was recipe for disaster. You gotta stick up for yourself good job.
Something definitely fishy here. I can't believe Aeroplan would "pay" the difference in fare to accommodate the pax in F.
The whole thing sounds Spohr-nicated.
Any chance this could have been done by an AI algorithm trying to maximize revenue?
You may be kidding but it's likely
Can do without AI
if (revenue < desiredRevenue) {
doLiteralFraud();
}
while (customer.isGullable() && customer.checkBalance() > 0 && !survailance.isActive()) {
doLiteralFraud();
}
Recently had IRROP on SQ. We were booked on a J award directly from SQ. When flight canceled, we were auto re-booked to LH Y+. Mutiple SQ agents were adamant that our tickets were for premium economy. In the end, we got re-booked on LX J. This may be completely unrelated to this situation, but maybe it is a broader *A issue??
Very, very interesting data point.
Our interactions with Lufthansa have shown that their people have free reign to be cruel and petty to their customers, so, if in doubt, bet on the pettiness with them.
The real question is, how many times do people need to be mistreated by Lufthansa before quitting them altogether?
No need to quit, just adjust expectations.
They normally manage to turn up, fly on time and get the luggage there safely too. They have a fantastic route network and lounges that reliably cover the basics. That's more than what can be said about any of their competitors- AF don't have the route network, easyJet don't have lounges, BA are often a joke when it comes to reliability [plus their network is also weak]....
No need to quit, just adjust expectations.
They normally manage to turn up, fly on time and get the luggage there safely too. They have a fantastic route network and lounges that reliably cover the basics. That's more than what can be said about any of their competitors- AF don't have the route network, easyJet don't have lounges, BA are often a joke when it comes to reliability [plus their network is also weak]. There are better options for intercontinental travel, particularly in premium classes, but even then it may make sense to buy that through ticket on LH/LX instead of interlining to a foreign airline on separate ones and getting one's baggage lost.
I don't expect Lufthansa to be particularly friendly or accommodating towards me, so it's not that difficult for them to meet my expectations...
All due respect Throwawayname, your response makes me a little sad for you and your sense of self worth:
"No need to quit, just adjust expectations."
We don't intend to adjust our expectations to paying top dollar to be treated worse than the milk cows on the family farm.
Show some self respect
I still need/want to travel where they're going. If I'm travelling to SKG, I am not going to buy a KLM ticket with a 200% higher price tag and a second stop in Athens to connect to Skyexpress that involves backtracking and no elite lounge access when LH can sell me an easy FRA connection on an Aegean codeshare. If I want to go from Porto to Kosice, I'm neither making a Ryanair connection on...
I still need/want to travel where they're going. If I'm travelling to SKG, I am not going to buy a KLM ticket with a 200% higher price tag and a second stop in Athens to connect to Skyexpress that involves backtracking and no elite lounge access when LH can sell me an easy FRA connection on an Aegean codeshare. If I want to go from Porto to Kosice, I'm neither making a Ryanair connection on separate tickets nor flying to Krakow and spending 4 hours driving each way just to avoid OS/Swiss.
That would be masochism, not self-respect.
Used to be a check-in agent, using the Amadeus Altea system.
It is possible to assign a seat in a cabin lower than the ticketed cabin, though you’d first need to downgrade the customer, then assign the seat.
The reservation would show a downgraded status on the system.
At my airline, only certain staff were able to do this, as you needed a higher authorization. Ie. managers, ticketing agents.
Though, this...
Used to be a check-in agent, using the Amadeus Altea system.
It is possible to assign a seat in a cabin lower than the ticketed cabin, though you’d first need to downgrade the customer, then assign the seat.
The reservation would show a downgraded status on the system.
At my airline, only certain staff were able to do this, as you needed a higher authorization. Ie. managers, ticketing agents.
Though, this is all tracked, and they could see who did this. So it seems a bit odd that a staff member would do this, as they could easily be reprimanded for that action…
So my thought would be it could be a system glitch, but in my 5 years working at the airport, I’ve never came across this. Ever. So also feels unlikely.
I've said it before - I don't know why people keep flying with this chickenshit airline.
Because there's no realistic alternative between lots of city pairs.
What an odd one. I'm not 100% clear on the timing around check-in. So, this couple approaches the check-in desk, testy exchange, then the son checks LH website and the seats show assigned in Y+ but the ticket is confirmed in F? So then how could the agent be doing anything in that very short amount of time to "mess" with them? That would be a) an exchange that went way more downhill than is...
What an odd one. I'm not 100% clear on the timing around check-in. So, this couple approaches the check-in desk, testy exchange, then the son checks LH website and the seats show assigned in Y+ but the ticket is confirmed in F? So then how could the agent be doing anything in that very short amount of time to "mess" with them? That would be a) an exchange that went way more downhill than is being described and b) a really diabolical, vindictive and swift-fingered agent.
Check in agent sounds like a clueless jerk. I don’t blame the mother for catching an attitude!
This will be my new advocate.
Airlines need to give more system access to power users especially those who flew enough to actually understand the tools.
I'm sure Ben and many other BIS million milers can understand ticketing and GDS better than 90% of the agents, especially the non elite team.
Is anyone else wondering how two older pleasure flyers are flying on a vacation trip booked at the very last minute?
Even though it is clear that the best (only?) time to book award tickets on LH is close to the flight, does anyone share my surprise that the OP sent his parents traveling like this at the last minute?
I'm not surprised at all. The m&p game is about maximizing miles and last-minute bookings are part of the strategy.
Some people even make all travel arrangements (hotel, tours, etc) in advance except for their tickets because the closer you are to departure, the better chance you have (never 100%, of course) of finding an amazing redemption opportunity.
No. They probably had a less desirable flight booked, which was canceled when this became available.
Yup. This trip was planned in advance and they were visiting family so just needed to get there at a rough time as there were no hotel bookings to worry about. I told them I can book UA non-stop in Y and deal with cancellation fees or book AA/BA in J and wait for something else to open-up. They said to wait and see if anything else pops up. The LH F showed up at...
Yup. This trip was planned in advance and they were visiting family so just needed to get there at a rough time as there were no hotel bookings to worry about. I told them I can book UA non-stop in Y and deal with cancellation fees or book AA/BA in J and wait for something else to open-up. They said to wait and see if anything else pops up. The LH F showed up at T-2 and I presented it as an option. The layover wasn't ideal but they got to experience LH F and got some good sleep so they were agreeable. They said they would let me know if they can get their packing done and they did so I booked it day of. I'm using the AA miles to book their return now.
Not surprised at all
Trip was planned in advance, the alternative was UA Y or using AA miles on BA and surcharges. Also they are both recently retired so don't mind travelling at the drop of a hat (and have done so before)
If that is an accurate transcript, the mother does sound a little ‘upperty’. I appreciate however that tone gives greater context.
It does sound strange. Perhaps the agent was put out by attitude and decided to react to that.
I can 100 percent picture people like my aunt reading the description of the exchange. But still, I would imagine airport employees see far worse on a weekly if not daily basis. If they are thin-skinned enough to screw with a couple's itinerary and intentionally downgrade them two classes of service over it, either this was a much worse interaction or they need to find a new career stat.
Lufthansa people expect their customers to meekly receive abuse, and retaliate when people stand up for themselves, as the mother did in this scenario
Lufthansa's mindset always has been that the reason passengers fly is paying the staff salaries. Zero concept of customer service.
At an outstation the check-in clerk will surely not be a Lufthansa employee.
So probably works for Air Canada on other shifts?
Or even flies on Air Canada sometimes!
Did they get to keep their premium economy boarding pass? Does it have the same trip ID?
Did agent somehow re-issue ticket in Air Canada O class?
Loong time ago I was on NWA award ticket to SFO - and because of IROPS, gate agent re-issued the ticket to SJC - which turned out to be in Y class (so I even got miles for this leg!)
They never had their boarding passes printed. I told the agent over the phone to hold off on checking them in until I was able to look into it.
The PNR never changed
Ok, then, sorry, is there any paper or online evidence that they were actually about to be assigned Y+ seats?
Could it be that the agent was just making empty statements - but would not actually even be able to issue premium economy boarding pass - and even if your parents would not escalate - would in the end still have to say something like "oh well, just this time..."?
suprise they can get a hold of AC agent so fast lol... my avergage wait time is 50-60 mins, unless there is first class contact agent
Typically, airlines have special lines to other carriers where there's minimal-to-no wait time for issues precisely like these, where there's an issue at check in, etc. Additionally, many airlines have dedicated lines to various state agencies, for example SQ is able to reach Australian immigration in one quick call when there are visa issues (I know this one first hand from experience), etc.
This is in fact the case. From professional experience. Especially the case within the alliances. LH and AC both Star Alliance and both use Amadeus GDS System
It's also worth noting that this happened at an airport where AC will definitely have substantial operations, and quite possibly a few directly-employed staff. It would have been a completely different story if the departure point had been Bologna or Katowice.
I don't know about LH but on NH and B6 I've had situations were they didn't pay close enough attention to the fare class and I was assigned economy seats. I had to point out that I was ticketed in mint (for b6) or business (for NH). It was quickly fixed in both cases but it seems it's definitely possible!
Probably system error or idiot check in agent, Lufthansa never does anything wrong.
Tim Dunn's Lufthansa alter ego?