United Airlines has just reached a pretty impressive milestone, as the Chicago-based carrier became the first in the world to have a mainline fleet of 1,000 aircraft.
In this post:
United is the largest airline in the world by several metrics
United just reached a noteworthy milestone. With the latest Boeing 737 MAX 9 that the airline took delivery of, the carrier became the first in the world to have a mainline fleet of 1,000 jets.
Just as a point of comparison, American’s mainline fleet has 978 jets, while Delta’s mainline fleet has 985 jets. Of course this doesn’t factor in regional operations, as those numbers fluctuate quite a bit.
However, this isn’t the only metric by which United is the largest of the “big three.” For example, in 2024, United also offered the most available seat miles of any of the “big three” US carriers:
- United offered 311,185,000,000 seat miles, a 6.8% increase compared to the year before
- American offered 292,948,000,000 seat miles, a 5.5% increase compared to the year before
- Delta offered 288,394,000,000 seat miles, a 6% increase compared to the year before
As you can see, while United’s fleet is only marginally bigger than those of American and Delta, the airline actually has quite a lead with available seat miles, and that partly reflects that United operates considerably more long haul and ultra long haul flights than competitors. For example, United’s average segment length is 1,490 miles, while American’s is 1,154 miles.
United also serves the most destinations of any US airline, including flying to the most countries.
Before someone jumps in and makes a “premium” point, let me of course acknowledge that size and profitability aren’t the same thing. Looking at 2024 numbers:
- American had $54.2 billion in operating revenue and $2.6 billion in operating income
- Delta had $57 billion in operating revenue and $6 billion in operating income
- United had $57.1 billion in operating revenue and $5.1 billion in operating income
So United actually is also the “largest” airline in terms of operating revenue, though as you can see, not in terms of profitability, where it still lags Delta.
Will United maintain its number one spot in 2025?
As you can see, all of the “big three” US carriers are very close to one another in terms of the metrics of fleet, available seat miles, etc. It’s interesting to note how the metric of which airline is biggest has changed over time.
Going into the pandemic, American was the biggest airline in the world. However, the airline was aggressive with retiring existing aircraft (including 757s and A330s), while United retired very few aircraft during the pandemic.
It’s hard to know how 2025 will play out in terms of which airline will be largest, since it’s so dependent on the ability of Airbus and Boeing to actually deliver new aircraft on schedule. Looking at the order books of airlines and potential 2025 deliveries:
- American hopes to take delivery of Airbus A321neos, Airbus A321XLRs, Boeing 737 MAX 8s, and Boeing 787-9s
- Delta hopes to take delivery of Airbus A220-300s, Airbus A321neos, Airbus A330-900neos, and Airbus A350-900s
- United hopes to take delivery of Airbus A321neos, Airbus A321XLRs, Boeing 737 MAX 8s, Boeing 737 MAX 9s, and Boeing 787s (multiple variants)
Given how close the carriers currently are, it’s anyone’s guess how this plays out, since aircraft manufacturers have been so challenged with delivering planes on-time.
I suspect United will keep its number one spot in terms of fleet size and available seat miles in 2025, given the direction the airline has been trending when it comes to capacity, plus the absolutely huge order book that United has. Delta will be taking delivery of quite a few wide body aircraft in 2025, but I don’t think the overall added capacity will exceed that of United. It’s very possible Delta overtakes American in terms of available seat miles, though. Only time will tell!
Bottom line
United has just reached an impressive milestone, as it became the first airline to have 1,000 mainline aircraft. Both American and Delta are within a couple of dozen jets of that number, so aren’t far behind. In 2024, United also offered the most available seat miles, had the most operating revenue, and served the most destinations.
For quite some time, American was the largest of the “big three” US carriers, though those days are no more. It’ll be interesting to see how those numbers compare for 2025, and if United maintains its number one spot for size.
What do you make of this 1,000 aircraft milestone for United?
At the very least a dedicated post highlighting a warning to Tim Dunn is warranted. It cannot continue with this nonsense every week.
I continue to bring facts to the discussion which some people go unhinged over.
When people turn an absolutely verifiable fact that Scott Kirby's kid wondered into the camera view on an UA earnings call from home into a rant about pedophilia and drunkenness, then it is clear that some simply cannot stand the truth and find every opportunity to trash someone they don't agree with.
Those that want to cite CF should know that...
I continue to bring facts to the discussion which some people go unhinged over.
When people turn an absolutely verifiable fact that Scott Kirby's kid wondered into the camera view on an UA earnings call from home into a rant about pedophilia and drunkenness, then it is clear that some simply cannot stand the truth and find every opportunity to trash someone they don't agree with.
Those that want to cite CF should know that it is Brian Sumers of the Airline Observer who frequently and accurately speaks about Scott Kirby's arrogance and need to be the smartest person in a room. Sumers and CF are part of the AirShow podcast.
I am not here to convince people to like him. I am here to present the facts including to acknowledge that UA has had an incredible run of improvement and it isn't due to adding a bunch of new aircraft but instead that, despite his personal shortcomings, Kirby knows the airline industry and brought a bunch of smart people with him from AA and built a great team.
AA and DL's execs, esp. the latter, could crow ten times as much as Kirby and co. do but they don't. Most of UA's strategies are copies of what DL did years before.
UA fans are justifiably proud of what their company has accomplished but they are incapable of seeing reality which is that UA is delivering about 80% of DL's financial results after the big runup and that UA stock has done as well as it has because of how undervalued UAL was - precisely because it was so poorly run for so long.
The future is not an extrapolation of the past after such a great run of improvement. UA has yet to address its old fleet issue, is having to spend far more on fleet and terminal to grow than any other US airline, and faces a tough domestic competitive environment which is precisely why UA's growth rate is actually quite a bit slower than it said even with the higher amount of new aircraft than AA or DL or WN - which is exactly what I said would happen.
When someone understands business as I do, they can see through the non-sense and corporate speak regardless of who says it. UA's plans are not occurring at the rate they said would happen and other competitors continue to implement their own strategies.
As soon as the UA fan base under whatever user names they participate in accept business reality and the justifiable criticism of UA's plans, then we can have civil discussions. But far too many people take any criticism of UA OR ITS PUBLIC LEADERS as a personal insult to them.
so, no, Ben isn't banning anyone that talks about the topics he presents w/o using bad language or attacking other users.
The fact that you want someone that criticizes a company to be banned is precisely why you won't succeed in what you want.
What YOU need to do along w/ a whole bunch of other people is engage in discussions on the business issues and accept that not everyone is going to line up with the rah rah talk that you want.
12 more paragraphs of absolute fluff attacking the "UA fanbase" lol
all because you can't deal with your very real and serious mental obsession issues.
You actually must be one of the dumbest people on the planet to attack Scott Kirby, now creepily his kid too, and United for what can only be described as a complete reversal of United Airlines under Kirby's leadership.
It's amusing that you hate Scott Kirby so much...
12 more paragraphs of absolute fluff attacking the "UA fanbase" lol
all because you can't deal with your very real and serious mental obsession issues.
You actually must be one of the dumbest people on the planet to attack Scott Kirby, now creepily his kid too, and United for what can only be described as a complete reversal of United Airlines under Kirby's leadership.
It's amusing that you hate Scott Kirby so much since you are FAR more arrogant than he is with far less reason to be. Some talk about Kirby as arrogant but also quickly mention how smart he is and how he turned united around completely on his own. Your Oscar Munoz tribute must be the most unhinged thing I've ever heard. Most people, if they even know of you, talk about you as an idiot and arrogant for no reason whatsoever while having no reason to be that way.
Did you date Glen back in the day and Scott didn't invite you to Vail with them? I honestly can't figure out another reason why you act like such a jilted ex-lover.
You were FIRED by delta lol. What on earth makes you think you can criticize a guy like Scott Kirby who brought Billions of shareholder value to United and turned around the entire perception of the airline while AA took a nosedive after he left.
it never cease to amaze me how badly you are at reading comprehension
I have made it abundantly clear over and over and over again that Scott Kirby and his team are smart and have made good decisions, even if those involve copying a number of DL's strategies. Many of DL's strategies, including domestic AVOD, came from somebody else, as I have noted, so it is about knowing what is worth pursuing and executing...
it never cease to amaze me how badly you are at reading comprehension
I have made it abundantly clear over and over and over again that Scott Kirby and his team are smart and have made good decisions, even if those involve copying a number of DL's strategies. Many of DL's strategies, including domestic AVOD, came from somebody else, as I have noted, so it is about knowing what is worth pursuing and executing it well. Kirby and co. have done that.
My focus on his personality is because he has a need to be seen as smart which no other airline exec in the industry now has. Any person's personality characteristics does not mean they are not professionally capable.
The fact that you defensively attack any one that points out realities which you can't accept says volumes about you. Honestly.
And when you resort to personal attacks including your last two paragraphs, YOU lose all credibility.
Learn to disagree with people. Be loyal to what you are loyal.
When you attack other people making up your own assertions which have place in reality, all you do is prove that you are incapable of participating in a discussion - which is all I am here for.
It's a personal attack to bring up your own history with Delta? I think not.
Or to ask why you're so obsessed with Scott Kirby and his children to the point of staying up all night and all day on a comment section? It is not a personal attack. Spend less time looking like a buffoon.
Grow up.
it is a personal attack to make up lies, Julie.
If you or anyone else had the actual facts that would be one thing, but you don't.
You can't stand to engage in actual discussion so you invent your own narrative.
the only person that needs to grow up is you and your inability to engage in a conversation with someone even if you disagree w/ them on the facts.
the only buffoon...
it is a personal attack to make up lies, Julie.
If you or anyone else had the actual facts that would be one thing, but you don't.
You can't stand to engage in actual discussion so you invent your own narrative.
the only person that needs to grow up is you and your inability to engage in a conversation with someone even if you disagree w/ them on the facts.
the only buffoon is someone that reads not just once but multiple times that Scott's kid wondered into camera view on a internet distributed United earnings call. Only someone incapable of rational thought and comprehension could turn that into preying on a child.
as for time on the internet, it is clear you want to be the arbiter of activity for other people. And you aren't alone.
Get your own site and if I participate, you can set the limits.
It is obvious that you want to shame me off of this site because you can't stand the truth that I speak.
YOU are the one that has life all backwards.
I am a bit disappointed Ben has done nothing to curb Tim Dunn. He brings traffic but not in a good way. I would argue it mentally affects the readers who have to witness this lunatic’s idiocracy
Ben you have sufficient evidence from years of Tim’s rants and unhelpful comments that he does not deserve to be here. There are good reasons he is banned from various websites and is also heavily looked down upon on many aviation forums. Please stop giving him a mic here
One finds it necessary to make reference to a particular individual who posts herein, furthermore, I make no apology of going off topic here.
Arps has demonstrated an inability to post without resorting to the use of foul expletives.
The repeated use of such language demonstrates to all the inability of the individual to carry out several basic human functions.
Self control is totally lacking.
Self respect is an alien instinct.
One finds it necessary to make reference to a particular individual who posts herein, furthermore, I make no apology of going off topic here.
Arps has demonstrated an inability to post without resorting to the use of foul expletives.
The repeated use of such language demonstrates to all the inability of the individual to carry out several basic human functions.
Self control is totally lacking.
Self respect is an alien instinct.
Respect for others who have to tolerate such behaviour is sadly missing.
Such afflictions are often a result of a poor standard of education, what is your excuse Arps?
You have demonstrated a marked lack of respect for your website host by totally ignoring his recent request for restraint, etc.
You have demonstrated a marked lack of respect towards others and you have demonstrated that you have little or nothing to contribute to this blog.
Kindly control yourself in future or be prepared for the repercussions.
What repercussions, cunt?
I'm still waiting for your answer, cunt.
Well done for proving their point. Twice, no less.
Pete, did you know it takes the same number of letters to spell your name as it does to spell what you are (namely a cunt)?
Ok! Game on Arps, you pathetic little example of the best trailer trash any country can produce.
Your school yard bully-boy tactics are so typical of someone with no education or breeding.
Did your family dispose of their illegitimate produce at your birth?
Did they find you so repulsive that they cast you aside like the dog dirt temperament you convey?
You act like a typical gutter snipe, who displays no...
Ok! Game on Arps, you pathetic little example of the best trailer trash any country can produce.
Your school yard bully-boy tactics are so typical of someone with no education or breeding.
Did your family dispose of their illegitimate produce at your birth?
Did they find you so repulsive that they cast you aside like the dog dirt temperament you convey?
You act like a typical gutter snipe, who displays no concern for anyone, even yourself …. a pathetic example of the worst human kind.
Did the big boys ridicule you at school by any chance?
Does it hurt knowing that you are such an inadequate, insignificant, insecure, mindless moron?
Arps, you would be best advised to take your childish mindset back to the gutter from whence you came.
Your foul mouth is no longer to be tolerated by those who respect Ben, his website and those who post herein.
Be off with you now like a good little child, slope off to your kind of environment, you really will not like the consequences of not mending your ways.
@ Arps -- I appreciate you contributing in the comments, but please don't use that kind of language here, you know that violates the rules. If I see it again, I'll have to block you from commenting.
Ben, I’ve been a loyal reader since 2013 but giving someone a warning for this kind of language is simply not something I can overlook. Tim Dunn’s delusional daily rantings are bad enough, but even a lackadaisical Reddit mod would have permabanned a member for being this vile in so many comments in such a short period of time.
Make good on your promise to us to better moderate the comments. Please, I beg you.
It's "interesting" to read the daily meltdown of you know who.
It's sad. I can't imagine the other meltdowns that are happening in his life...
@Ben Schlappig - no joke. I just ran a word count of your post vs. TD's comments
Your post is 799 words
TD's comments total 7,583 words!
You are really going to cede 10x the length of your entire post to that cunt?
For one short and shining moment, UA had a true leader in Oscar Muñoz. It was the saddest day in UA history when he had to bow out due to his health.
UA was defined by arrogance and bragging before Oscar showed up and it all started back up after he left and Kirby arrived, magnified 1000X beyond what it has been before.
It is no surprise that the UA fan base is a...
For one short and shining moment, UA had a true leader in Oscar Muñoz. It was the saddest day in UA history when he had to bow out due to his health.
UA was defined by arrogance and bragging before Oscar showed up and it all started back up after he left and Kirby arrived, magnified 1000X beyond what it has been before.
It is no surprise that the UA fan base is a reflection of someone that truly had the nerve to say that he was the only one that reads every airline earnings call transcript and earnings release. I'll never forget the earnings call on which he bragged about coming up with banked hubs for DEN, IAH and ORD when other airlines had scheduled their hubs in banks for decades before Kirby was even born.
Your obsession with Scott Kirby is so strange. I’m quite certain he has no idea who you are yet you whine about him like an ex lover
When other people on other sites say that Scott wants the world to think he is the smartest guy in the room, I am hardly the only person that sees how arrogant the guy is.
and I'll never forget the earnings call during covid when Scottie's little kid paraded into camera view.
Yes, Scottie, some of us really do watch ALL of the earnings calls, esp. when you are ready to put your foot into your mouth.
How drunk are you tonight? More than usual? You’d think you would’ve pulled back on the drinking after delta fired you over it
Now you’re publicly creeping on Scott Kirby’s son?
You’re truly sick and disgusting
Go to bed loser. Your obsession is so creepy and weird
you clearly are short on comprehension.
Kirby's kid in diapers walked into camera view during a UA earnings call. Nobody is or was creeping anything.
As usual, you hurl insults because you can't deal w/ the basic facts. Kirby wants everything to think he is the smartest person in the room and regularly touts that attribute on the very earnings calls that he thinks no one else watches - while he watches everyone else's.
Oscar...
you clearly are short on comprehension.
Kirby's kid in diapers walked into camera view during a UA earnings call. Nobody is or was creeping anything.
As usual, you hurl insults because you can't deal w/ the basic facts. Kirby wants everything to think he is the smartest person in the room and regularly touts that attribute on the very earnings calls that he thinks no one else watches - while he watches everyone else's.
Oscar was a good and decent human. The only one UA has had as a CEO in decades.
It is no surprise UA's fans emulate their leader.
Pedophilia is not a joke, tim
Saying you watch Kirby’s kid on screen alongside a statement how you watch him closely like some sick pedo isn’t funny.
Neither are your drinking issues despite your idiotic time zone claims (you would’ve been awake all day, if true)
Hours after your last post, when we all thought the wind had left your sails, you post in the middle of the night to make a personal attack on Scott Kirby, even though he won over the investment community and most employees who have seen the results of his vision.
Nobody can deny what he has done to drive the turnaround at UA. The financial results speak for themselves. All while investing in the...
Hours after your last post, when we all thought the wind had left your sails, you post in the middle of the night to make a personal attack on Scott Kirby, even though he won over the investment community and most employees who have seen the results of his vision.
Nobody can deny what he has done to drive the turnaround at UA. The financial results speak for themselves. All while investing in the customer product with new planes, new interiors, and what is recognized as some of the most customer-friendly technology.
Not once did Kirby ever say he invented banks at UA hubs, though the airline has been stronger than ever under his leadership.
There’s a reason he is covered and listened to more than other CEOs. Because he’s extremely smart, seeing industry trends, is interesting, and has a proven track record of results.
If anyone is guilty of hubris, it’s Ed Bastian and DL executive, who have seen their industry leading position erode as UA catches up, all while UA has built the largest and most global carrier among the US3.
You yourself predicted on crankyflier that DL would be the first to reach 1,000 mainline planes.
This was a strange post, even for you. This is what you come up with on a post that details UA’s significant fleet milestone?
first, it is not the middle of the night where I am.
Apparently it is for you or you wouldn't be worried about me... more significantly, it speaks volumes about you that YOU are the one that has to get in the last word.
You clearly are incapable of processing. In MULTIPLE places in this very discussion, I have said that UA is well-run.
No one doubts what Scott Kirby brought to UA and...
first, it is not the middle of the night where I am.
Apparently it is for you or you wouldn't be worried about me... more significantly, it speaks volumes about you that YOU are the one that has to get in the last word.
You clearly are incapable of processing. In MULTIPLE places in this very discussion, I have said that UA is well-run.
No one doubts what Scott Kirby brought to UA and the team - including himself - that was waiting for an opportunity to shine.
But
1. Scott Kirby is incredibly arrogant. Many, many people recognize that.
2. Scott Kirby and his gang made precisely many of the mistakes that afflict AA now. He learned from his mistakes but let's not forget the mess he left behind at AA, and US and HP.
3. Many of UA's strategies are direct copies of things that DL did years before UA.
You don't have to agree with me - it is clearly an opinion - but it was a dark day when Oscar had to retire. and UA has been arrogant - from touting round the world flights and first to fly to all 50 states - long before Kirby came around.
and Kirby and crew have simply harped on a whole new level of bragging.
AA and DL do not and never have engaged in the level of bragging that UA has. Ever.
I am glad to know that you noted I predicted that DL would be the first to reach a fleet of 1000. Unlike UA, DL never provided any documentation stating what their fleet plans were.
The ONLY reason why DL didn't reach 1000 aircraft was because they retired more than half of the number of aircraft they took delivery on.
and it is funny that you decide it is strange that a topic about mainline fleet turns into one about corporate culture when you have engaged multiple times today touting stuff that has nothing to do with the topics on the articles you have replied to.
And you can hold CF out as a model but you clearly are incapable of walking away.
This is a perfect reminder as to why Brett Snyder, a respected, smart, and balanced aviation blogger, refuses to engage with you and refers to discussions with you as endless argument loops.
you also forgot to mention he is a former HP and UA employee and is regularly invited to non-public events.
for some reason, he never gets those invites from DL.
Do you, a cunt, get invited to anything except the annual meeting of syphilis
why would Scott Kirby get invites from DL to events when he's never worked there? But frankly, even you saying this only betrays how little you know about even Delta leadership, much less Scott. You get dumber and more illogical by the day.
United is the world's largest airline
Tim Dunn is the world's largest cunt
and your self-esteem is clearly so wrapped up in UA that you are incapable of hearing any criticism or rational discussion of it that doesn't line up with your cheerleading.
OMAAT is not a medical clinic. If people need medical help, they will go elsewhere to get it.
This is an aviation discussion forum and what I have to say belongs here.
The fact that you can't handle hearing or reading what I have to say speaks volumes about you, not me.
I'm not a United fan in general but have to say of the big 3 they have shown the most IMPROVEMENT in recent years; esp long haul.
Delta is the most consistently reliable and decent to fly; American seems to have become more variable.
Also we know Terminally Deranged would 100% be thumping his chest had DL reached 1,000 planes first. Unquestionably.
They didn’t, thus 50,000 or so words obfuscating the issue.
T.D. is such an insufferable cunt
clearly you are torqued that Port Authority of NY/NJ data shows that DL has closed the overall traffic gap in NYC's 3 airports w/ UA; DL operates 15% more flights than UA and the EWR runway closure has nothing to do with it.
As much as you want to believe that UA can and will upgauge at EWR, DL can do the same and more at LGA and JFK.
IIRC, someone also posted that DL at EWR is about 80% the size of UA is at LGA.
UA is simply a one trick pony in NYC
A one trick pony in NYC that is 23% larger than DL in NYC this summer by capacity, 13% more seats/departure than DL, and 14% more unique destinations than DL.
you're the only one trick pony here. United is far from it in NYC.
And since you're trying a new thing of just making up random sh*t, Though you clearly could care less about data.
No, DL is not 15% larger than UA in...
A one trick pony in NYC that is 23% larger than DL in NYC this summer by capacity, 13% more seats/departure than DL, and 14% more unique destinations than DL.
you're the only one trick pony here. United is far from it in NYC.
And since you're trying a new thing of just making up random sh*t, Though you clearly could care less about data.
No, DL is not 15% larger than UA in NYC. DL has 7% more departures across the three airports, but that's only because, as shown below, DL has a VERY low gauge and can't sustain larger planes while filling slot requirements. An issue UA doesn't have to worry about at EWR.
UA at LGA has 70% more capacity than DL at EWR. You make everything up as it is, try making it less easy to show how ignorant you are.
DL is likely struggling some in NYC. At LGA, their average seats/departures this summer is 102. AA is 107 while UA is 155.
United also easily can maintain higher gauge out of the city overall. The overall weighted average for seats/departure out of the three airports... UA is 13% higher than DL. UA is 144. DL is 127.
It must be fun just making things up to prove a point that isn't there. Sorry, Tim. Find a new place to troll.
An oversight on my part was to offer readers the opportunity to peruse the SkyTrax World Airline Awards. Without including both the link and additional information. The link being:
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-top-100-airlines-2024/
Furthermore, please see below an extract lifted from the SkyTrax about page. I find it necessary to include this information to counter the false news posts from a certain individual who cannot accept the report facts.
“The World Airline Awards began in 1999, when Skytrax...
An oversight on my part was to offer readers the opportunity to peruse the SkyTrax World Airline Awards. Without including both the link and additional information. The link being:
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-top-100-airlines-2024/
Furthermore, please see below an extract lifted from the SkyTrax about page. I find it necessary to include this information to counter the false news posts from a certain individual who cannot accept the report facts.
“The World Airline Awards began in 1999, when Skytrax launched its first global, annual airline customer satisfaction survey.
It is not restricted to member airlines or a pre-selected choice of airline, and any airline in the world can be nominated.
There are no survey entry fees, no payment to attend the awards event, and no charges for any use of the award logos and results by winning airlines”.
Most people are fully accepting of the JD Power motor car customer satisfaction surveys, therefore, why some individuals attempt to poo-poo SkyTrax, is beyond my comprehension.
SkyTrax is frequently called ScamTrax online for a reason
420, one has to ask you to explain the reason for your derogatory comment?
No explanation, no credibility, yes?
Aerob
unless you are attempting sarcasm or being facetious, you really shouldn't use Skytrax as any basis of authority.
Ok! I will bite JD, why should anyone use your post “As any basis of authority “?
Jeez there are a lot of planes flying in the US
Can we talk about the goals that each company sets and then it becomes clear how and when they achieve them?
1. United has always been focused on status – operating round the world flights, first to serve all 50 states etc. UA has long had a need to be at the “top” of a heap that they create in their own mind.
2. Other airlines simply define other goals and are just...
Can we talk about the goals that each company sets and then it becomes clear how and when they achieve them?
1. United has always been focused on status – operating round the world flights, first to serve all 50 states etc. UA has long had a need to be at the “top” of a heap that they create in their own mind.
2. Other airlines simply define other goals and are just as successful if not more so in achieving those goals. I don’t recall ever hearing AA, DL or WN setting a goal of having a fleet of 1000 aircraft although they have said it was inevitable that it would happen. Of course, UA is more capable of reaching a goal if they hold it out as “their” goal. Other airlines have other goals that rank higher than fleet size for good reason.
3. Let’s not forget that UA is also years behind hitting a mainline fleet of 1000 which simply highlights how many of UA’s strategies have been achieved long after they were intended to occur. If LH gets roasted for taking years longer to achieve its fleet and product related goals, I’m not sure why UA should not be held to the same standard. Boeing will get the MAX and 777X in the air but there is something to be said for developing goals that are achievable.
And, finally, the UA fans certainly don’t want to talk about fleet age but UA has the oldest fleet among US airlines as well as among just about all global carriers. UA retired about 10 A320 family aircraft in early 2024 and then stopped retiring aircraft when the MAX delivery issues really got bad by the summer and fall of 2024. UA sets growth targets first and keeps aircraft in service as long as possible with cost and fleet age as secondary or tertiary factors. In contrast, since everyone loves to make the comparison between DL and UA, DL used more than half of its 2024 deliveries for fleet replacement and will do close if not the same in 2025. DL’s fleet age and fleet efficiency continues to drop even while UA is focused on a metric like 1000 aircraft which DL could have met in 2024 if DL was not as focused on growth as it was on creating a modern and efficient fleet more than growth.
Just as with touting the size of UA’s Pacific network, some UA fans can’t deal w/ perspective or admit that someone else achieves other goals better than UA.
The 1000 mainline aircraft fleet mark is significant but it is one of a multiple of metrics, many of which someone other than UA has achieved first.
Goals? LMAO
yes, ronnie, goals.
UA, just like each of the big 4, is a publicly traded company
Publicly traded companies have to tell their investors/owners how they are doing with some level of truthfulness and what they intend to do.
UA execs rightly have been very honest in noting that CO’s decision to use regional jets for so much of their domestic network has left UA in a very uncompetitive position. AA, DL, and WN...
yes, ronnie, goals.
UA, just like each of the big 4, is a publicly traded company
Publicly traded companies have to tell their investors/owners how they are doing with some level of truthfulness and what they intend to do.
UA execs rightly have been very honest in noting that CO’s decision to use regional jets for so much of their domestic network has left UA in a very uncompetitive position. AA, DL, and WN simply carry so much more domestic traffic because they have long understood the value of the domestic market including to obtain large credit card partnerships. It isn’t a surprise that Kirby committed to building UA’s domestic system by upgauging and growing its interior US hubs when UA found out that international flights have far less value to a US-based card issuer. DL understood the value of a balanced domestic and international network including balanced coastal and interior US hubs over a decade before the light went on for Kirby.
Gary over at VFTW published UA’s fleet plan years ago including the plan to reach 1000 mainline aircraft in 2022 if not earlier. We get what has gone on with Boeing but UA is still far more interested in growth than fleet age or efficiency. Now, UA publishes its fleet guidance with its quarterly investor guidance, something that AA and DL do not do. It provides incredible insight into UA’s thinking.
Based on UA’s current guidance, they intend to retire a couple dozen A320CEO family aircraft but no widebodies. They will not receive anywhere near 100 aircraft in 2025 and yet recognize they have to start retiring domestic aircraft. I have said for years that UA would have to use some of its new delivery aircraft for retirements and they are doing that in 2025 more than they did in 2024, again based on their expected 2025 deliveries. They will not grow their fleet anywhere near as fast as they expected in their then-leaked guidance which was published in VFTW.
AA, DL and WN all have every reason to make sure that UA does not take domestic market share. UA’s growth will be in its own hubs which means it has a pretty high risk of diluting its own yields far more than that it will take share from anyone.
In contrast, it is far more likely that AA and esp. DL will grow in international markets where UA is larger than that UA will gain domestic market share.
Some people are so wedded to the rah-rah of their own team that they cannot objectively see the industry and the plans and goals of every player.
Good for UA to reaching 1000 mainline aircraft first. Let’s see how it all fits into the total picture but it is doubtful that UA will accomplish anything more with 1001 mainline aircraft than it does now – which is to fly more ASMs, burn more fuel, and deliver less revenue and profits than the 1 airline.
This T.D. dude is a cunt
TD, is your post just another example of words over reality = mediocrity?
You really should see someone about your inability to control your delta obsession.
United never had a goal to reach 1000 airplanes. It just happened. The goal is growth and market share, which was given up by the prior management group. Holding onto older airplanes makes sense when the replacement aircraft aren't being delivered on the timeline that was planned. That's just a smart management move. The older aircraft will be retired down the road as orders pick up.
feel free to tell JonNYC who Gary and Ben frequently turn to for content that the document that UA published was fake.
And since there are UA earnings call transcripts that specifically address 1000 mainline aircraft years ago, it very much was a goal and it is one that UA achieved.
The message that some people can't accept - which is why they shoot the messenger - is that UA had a network deficiency because...
feel free to tell JonNYC who Gary and Ben frequently turn to for content that the document that UA published was fake.
And since there are UA earnings call transcripts that specifically address 1000 mainline aircraft years ago, it very much was a goal and it is one that UA achieved.
The message that some people can't accept - which is why they shoot the messenger - is that UA had a network deficiency because of CO's reliance on RJs and UA has focused on growth far more than fleet age or efficiency.
UA has the orders because they placed massive orders all at one time but they can't get them delivered, something that some of us said years ago would not be the case. Boeing has had problems with the 787 since its first year of service. The MAX was delayed well before UA placed multiple follow on orders using credits which Boeing made to United for delays of the first round of orders.
UA will grow but not at the rate either UA said it would or that many of UA's fans think UA will grow.
UA will have the oldest fleet until they significant retire older aircraft.
none of which changes that fleet size is not a direct correlator to profits or revenue. There are significant sources of non-transportation revenue where DL generates far more of than UA and AA is on the verge of moving into DL's league while profits also factor in costs. UA execs themselves said what some of us have said which is that UA's labor costs are not aligned with its competitors and UA's costs will rise faster than its competitors as they settle with their other labor groups that do not enjoy industry-leading contracts.
again, 1000 mainline aircraft is a big accomplishment, but it is just part of the story.
Anyone that is objective can look at the whole picture and not be excessively focused on one metric to the exclusion of every other that doesn't shine UA in such great light
"none of which changes that fleet size is not a direct correlator to profits or revenue. "
And yet in United's case it actually has been. And yes, Tim. Fleet size is a VERY direct correlation to revenue. where do you even come up with this kind of stupid thing to say? Of course fleet size correlates to revenue.
"again, 1000 mainline aircraft is a big accomplishment, but it is just part of the story.
"none of which changes that fleet size is not a direct correlator to profits or revenue. "
And yet in United's case it actually has been. And yes, Tim. Fleet size is a VERY direct correlation to revenue. where do you even come up with this kind of stupid thing to say? Of course fleet size correlates to revenue.
"again, 1000 mainline aircraft is a big accomplishment, but it is just part of the story.
Anyone that is objective can look at the whole picture and not be excessively focused on one metric to the exclusion of every other that doesn't shine UA in such great light"
And you consider yourself to be objective?
Anyone objective can see United has done a 180 in their company trajectory. Only someone with the worst affliction of Delta-itis can't see that. Their profits are better. Their domestic network is bigger, their international network is bigger
First, Jane, let me commend you for discussing the topic and not attacking me. It says volumes about people who repeatedly are unable to discuss the topic at hand so attack other users.
To your point, yes, UA has turned ITSELF around and nobody has ever denied that. Scott Kirby and the team be brought from AA had done enough things wrong over 3 different airlines – HP, US and AA – that they...
First, Jane, let me commend you for discussing the topic and not attacking me. It says volumes about people who repeatedly are unable to discuss the topic at hand so attack other users.
To your point, yes, UA has turned ITSELF around and nobody has ever denied that. Scott Kirby and the team be brought from AA had done enough things wrong over 3 different airlines – HP, US and AA – that they were waiting to prove themselves and show that they knew how to deliver industry leading metrics. It isn’t a surprise that UA execs have repeatedly tried to lump themselves with DL as the leaders of the industry even though many, no most, of the strategies that UA is implementing are strategies that DL did years before. Again, I commend UA and the exec team for turning around an airline that significantly underperformed but let’s not forget how it happened and who they are copying.
Kirby et al have turned UA around because they are making sound network decisions, something that was noticeably absent from UA for years in large part because UA was driven by ego. DL outperformed UA in profits in the Pacific in the years pre-covid because UA, like AA, was chasing share in China and HKG and the market was simply not conducive to profitability. DL pulled out of HKG and allowed AA and UA to duke it out w/ the subsidized Chinese carriers. Post covid, UA tried to dump a bunch of capacity into Asia/Pacific, it didn’t work , and they quickly backed off. UA is making solid network decisions now and reaching 1000 aircraft didn’t make that happen.
And the significance of 1000 aircraft is about what UA says it wants to do which is compete better in the domestic system where it carries far less traffic than AA, DL or WN. UA is holding onto older aircraft instead of retiring them, is still relying on 50 seat aircraft including the CRJ 550 even though those aircraft are the least economical 2 cabin aircraft in the US carrier fleet. UA is trading size and growth right now for less efficiency and older aircraft, a formula that only lasts so long before UA has to compete like the rest of the industry.
And has been discussed, UA is not paying industry average wages compared to DL and its other peers to tens of thousands of employees. Their profits now are coming on the backs of large portions of their workers.
I am happy to give UA credit for what it has accomplished but I am not going to whitewash anything.
You can just say you were wrong and move on. Another 6 paragraphs of nothing doesn't do anything except to remind people that your last post was wrong and you can't admit it.
Your obsession is toxic.
Yes, Fleet size and revenue are a very direct correlation. United was going to get that many billions in revenue from a fleet of 30 planes.
And yes. Anyone objective can see that United has...
You can just say you were wrong and move on. Another 6 paragraphs of nothing doesn't do anything except to remind people that your last post was wrong and you can't admit it.
Your obsession is toxic.
Yes, Fleet size and revenue are a very direct correlation. United was going to get that many billions in revenue from a fleet of 30 planes.
And yes. Anyone objective can see that United has done a complete turnaround.
And no. you are not objective in the slightest. You spend your day trolling the internet looking for completely nonsensical ways to get your rocks off about delta and wasting a LOT of time writing.
Jane,
no one has denied that UA has done a complete turnaround.
but that all started long before UA hit 900 aircraft in its mainline fleet, let alone 1000.
UA is being run like a real business - and copying a host of strategies that DL has successfully used for years.
Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Of course more airplanes means more revenue - but UA improved its revenue...
Jane,
no one has denied that UA has done a complete turnaround.
but that all started long before UA hit 900 aircraft in its mainline fleet, let alone 1000.
UA is being run like a real business - and copying a host of strategies that DL has successfully used for years.
Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Of course more airplanes means more revenue - but UA improved its revenue as much if not more because of fixing its network and revenue production more than by adding capacity.
Feel free to compare DL and UA's capacity growth and you will see that they have been fairly similar. In fact, for the decade ending in 2024, DL grew more than AA or UA.
UA might be growing more now because they recognize that the next step in fixing their network is to increase gauge in many hubs like ORD where it is still smaller than any comparable DL hub and nearly all other AA hubs (AA at ORD is about the same average aircraft size).
You are free to level charges of trolling all you want but you manage to find time to reply.
You simply don't understand what actually goes on in the airline industry and you are determined not to let anyone else tell you the reality that you don't want to accept.
objectivity is being able to separate bias from fact. UA IS being well-run. I have never said otherwise.
But I won't let you attribute UA's success to more than what it is - which is much better management than UA had for decades upon decades.
and Don't patronize. You spend your life attacking other posters. Don't pretend otherwise.
no. Jane.
I make a point of highlighting that some people come here only to attack other people rather than addressing the issues.
How about you accept that it is clear that you TRIED above to discuss the topic and I commended you for it and engaged in the discussion.
don't return to the norm you have established but instead engage in the topic which I know you are capable of doing and did just a few replies ago
be less stupid, Tim
I’m not sure you’re capable of being anything other than a proud troll but try
You are a laughing stock
"chasing share in China and HKG and the market was simply not conducive to profitability. DL pulled out of HKG and allowed AA and UA to duke it out w/ the subsidized Chinese carriers."
Of course, what really happened, is:
1. Delta pulled out of Hong Kong, because they could never figure out how to make it work (despite having attempted it nonstop from L.A., Anchorage, Detroit, Seattle, and Tokyo but completely failing in all...
"chasing share in China and HKG and the market was simply not conducive to profitability. DL pulled out of HKG and allowed AA and UA to duke it out w/ the subsidized Chinese carriers."
Of course, what really happened, is:
1. Delta pulled out of Hong Kong, because they could never figure out how to make it work (despite having attempted it nonstop from L.A., Anchorage, Detroit, Seattle, and Tokyo but completely failing in all the above), while both American and United succeeded from their hubs at that time.
2. American never served a single destination in China that Delta didn't, so not sure how they were left to "duke it out" any more so than Delta itself attempted.
3. United served markets like Xian and Chengdu by taking advantage of many of the same subsidies offered to Chinese carriers, so it's not exactly the one-sided field that you're attempting to depict. At least they got caught trying, and did sustain until Covid changed everything.
Delta instead wasted its time trying to form a pathetic imitation of a joint-venture, with an airline (China Eastern) that it could not create an actual j.v. with, in its (attempt to replicate what United was doing on its own.
Somebody forgot to take his Seroquel this morning. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
It’s useless to argue with him. He clearly has mental issues. Just ignore him. Let him talk alone. It’s much better for everyone (including him).
you and roberto prove that you can't come up w/ a fact-based discussion so you trash the messenger of the reality which you do not want to accept.
At least Jane above can discuss the actual issues at hand, even if we don't come to the same conclusion
Tim, United has made fleet growth from United Next a goal, not a specifics fleet size. The 1,000 aircraft milestone was a result of another goal, not the goal itself.
Kirby pointed out that UA historically underperformed due to limited mainline capacity and overall smaller gauge than competitors.
The growth, while resulting in less deliveries than originally planned, have still yielded hundreds of new deliveries over a few years.
The average gauge...
Tim, United has made fleet growth from United Next a goal, not a specifics fleet size. The 1,000 aircraft milestone was a result of another goal, not the goal itself.
Kirby pointed out that UA historically underperformed due to limited mainline capacity and overall smaller gauge than competitors.
The growth, while resulting in less deliveries than originally planned, have still yielded hundreds of new deliveries over a few years.
The average gauge has increased significantly and many former UAX routes are now mainline.
This has allowed further segmentation of the seats available for sale, resulting in the dramatic financial improvement we’ve seen from UA.
With billions of dollars less in credit card revenue than what DL receives and with significant competition in every hub, either at the airport or at the airport across town, it’s a very big accomplishment to match DL’s performance.
And before you point out the difference for the annual performance, most of that is from the first half of the year.
Q4 performance highlights the continual improvement we’ve seen from UA, as new planes continue to be delivered.
The new contract UA will negotiate with Chase will be a significant tailwind for UA, with billions more in revenue, especially with UA’s work on Kinnective Media, the industry’s first media network that allows for more monetization of Mileage Plus.
Mark,
UA most certainly had a goal of having 1000 mainline aircraft several years ago and they had that number published to investors even while you and others say it wasn't a specific goal.
It quite simply has been a part of UA's public guidance for several years and was even before that on an insider basis - which VFTW published via JonNYC.
Nobody is doubting that UA has improved. but you and...
Mark,
UA most certainly had a goal of having 1000 mainline aircraft several years ago and they had that number published to investors even while you and others say it wasn't a specific goal.
It quite simply has been a part of UA's public guidance for several years and was even before that on an insider basis - which VFTW published via JonNYC.
Nobody is doubting that UA has improved. but you and others simply can't understand that other competitors are moving too and you simply have no way of knowing how well UA will fare relative to its competitors in 4 years or 4 months.
The slope of UA's improvement will slow. They did alot of stuff that should have been done a long time ago. The heavy lifting is a whole lot harder.
And you still don't want to admit that UA execs have said what I have said which is that UA's costs are not in line with other carriers esp. DL. UA is spending about $1.2 billion/year less than DL on labor and profit sharing for the size of operation they have.
and, yes, WHEN UA gets a new credit card agreement, they will begin to catch up with what DL has done w/ Amex for over a decade and what AA is on the verge of doing w/ Citi.
But you still think that UA is going to come up w/ a bunch of new revenue and no one else will. DL's Amex agreement is up in a couple years too. Let's see what they come up with.
and DL still has billions of dollars in revenue that will come from their MRO operations - which they expect to generate $1 billion more in profits in 5 years. UA simply can't match that because DL has exclusive airline deals on all of the new generation engines in UA's fleet except the GEnx - which is about due for a major update anyway.
"you simply have no way of knowing how well UA will fare relative to its competitors in 4 years or 4 months."
That cuts both ways though. For all you know, Delta with its over-reliance on feeding partner hubs, can find itself completely screwed by changing regulatory landscapes. These antitrust-immune joint ventures are far more fragile than you (and honestly speaking, a lot of people) might release.
Look at how the current American administration is...
"you simply have no way of knowing how well UA will fare relative to its competitors in 4 years or 4 months."
That cuts both ways though. For all you know, Delta with its over-reliance on feeding partner hubs, can find itself completely screwed by changing regulatory landscapes. These antitrust-immune joint ventures are far more fragile than you (and honestly speaking, a lot of people) might release.
Look at how the current American administration is bulldozing through longstanding trade agreements like a bull in a China shop. Who's to say that other countries won't choose to reassess the value of some cooperative aviation agreements, as part of their own leverage? Even taking Americans out of the picture, look at what we're seeing in the E.U. versus Germany.
United is the one better set up for either possibilities. Should the market drastically reshape in one direction, then United can easily retreat into being a partner feeder, and they can do it far easier/faster than Delta (and American) could build up a competitive worldwide network, should the market instead reshape in the other direction.
"realize" not "release"
no, I don't know what will take place but I also don't endlessly make comments about how DL will dethrone anyone else. I accurately note where DL and other airlines are competitively.
A chorus of UA fans consistently have a need to turn the facts of UA's growth into "we are going to kick everyone's butt" when all that is clear is that UA has not and will not likely to change the competitive...
no, I don't know what will take place but I also don't endlessly make comments about how DL will dethrone anyone else. I accurately note where DL and other airlines are competitively.
A chorus of UA fans consistently have a need to turn the facts of UA's growth into "we are going to kick everyone's butt" when all that is clear is that UA has not and will not likely to change the competitive rankings of the industry.
as for your statement about partner hub service, you peddle internet myths which are not at all based on reality.
Tell us the percentage of AA, DL and UA's TATL and TPAC flights that are operated to/from partner hubs and you will find that UA is not any lower than DL or AA; you love to tout how big the Star JV is but think that UA flies to a bunch of places that are outside the JV. It just isn't reality.
You do realize that DL operates more routes to Tokyo - which is not a partner hub - that it does to ICN right now?
quit repeating the same myths when any intelligent analysis would prove it is nowhere near accurate.
the international market has LONG BEEN less profitable than the doemstic system and that is STILL TRUE. UA has just had the good fortune of being able to reap profits from international markets but UA still gets as much or more profits from its domestic system, just like every other US airline.
It is UA that is most vulnerable with an excessive exposure to the international system compared to airlines that have more balanced route systems
"you love to tout how big the Star JV"
Why do you just make stuff up out of thin air?? Link a screenshot of me writing about (much less "touting) "how big the Star JV is," and I'll not post for a month.
Go ahead, take a shot. Or admit that you just bullshitted.
Because I've NEVER done that. Not even once.
That is so weird dude. Really strange.
the "you" is collective.
I don't really bother to keep track of who pumps out which lies.
none of which changes that your statement about DL's reliance on partner hubs compared UA is patently false.
Instead of attacking me, start counting flights and you will find out that DL and UA have very similar percentages of flights to partner hubs across both the Atlantic and Pacific.
You repeat drivel and it is still wrong.
"start counting flights and you will find out that DL and UA have very similar percentages of flights to partner hubs across both the Atlantic and Pacific."
Prove it, bullshitter.
I just knew TD would explain it. I don't have a clue what he's trying to explain, but that's not really new.
all you have to do is use facts instead of consistently extrapolating out current reality ten years down the road while ignoring that the competition is also rolling out new initiatives.
While I am not necessarily believing that they will succeed, you do realize that AA just made a major strategic move about regaining lost premium revenue?
To quote the immortal... Again, Tim. Prove it. You said two things to him and never backed anything up with data or facts when challenged. If you're going to just straight up lie, at least own it.
You love to talk about using data and facts but you never do and you can never backup nearly anything you write when challenged.
Not to be a size queen.... but during the decades I was in the industry, the size of each airline was measured by Revenue Passenger Kilometers for passenger airlines, and Revenue Freight-Ton Kilometers for all-cargo carriers. Where do the carriers rank in RPK?
But wifi...........
Clearly quantity does not necessarily mean quality.
One has to ask why the world’s largest airline, by quantity of aircraft, can only manage a rating of 42nd in the World Airline Awards?
There must be someone out in there in the bondoo who has the answer?
No doors in Polaris suites, obviously.
The world airline awards / SkyTrax is a known pay to play scheme and it’s an absolute joke in the industry. It’s a trophy bought and paid for by ME and Asian carriers but no one really cares.
Well now Bob, if the substance of your post were to be true, then why do more airlines not invest in the scheme?
It is well known that certain countries have for decades used their monetary might to forge their way to the top, why are they not doing so now?
No, one feels that every airline “Cares” as much about industry standards as their customers do, to deny such facts appears to...
Well now Bob, if the substance of your post were to be true, then why do more airlines not invest in the scheme?
It is well known that certain countries have for decades used their monetary might to forge their way to the top, why are they not doing so now?
No, one feels that every airline “Cares” as much about industry standards as their customers do, to deny such facts appears to a simple case of sour grapes, yes?
Furthermore, the proof is in the pudding, or, in Ben’s case his candid reviews. Have you not noticed how Ben’s experiences align quite favourably with those of the customers who offer their own to SkyTrax?
In conclusion, it is your prerogative not believe the results, however, swimming against the tide is akin to burying your head in the sand, old friend.
No, the SkyTrax “rankings” are literally pay to play. Why don’t more airlines invest in the scheme? Because it’s a total waste of money for a joke of an award/ranking. But hey, if you make your travel decisions by some faux ranking, by all means…have at it.
Bob, you are obsessed with the notion that SkyTrax is a “Pay to play”, “Joke” and “A total waste of money”. However, thus far it would appear to be simply your opinion, to become credible one should provide some proof, yes?
I don’t really care who makes the most money or the biggest, it frankly says more about people overpaying for very little than anything else.
But I am quite excited to see United overtake delta in profits one day just for the inevitable mental breakdown from one user and 50 paragraphs per post explaining why everyone else is an idiot.
His 150 paragraphs of comments over on the VFTW article about hubs was...
I don’t really care who makes the most money or the biggest, it frankly says more about people overpaying for very little than anything else.
But I am quite excited to see United overtake delta in profits one day just for the inevitable mental breakdown from one user and 50 paragraphs per post explaining why everyone else is an idiot.
His 150 paragraphs of comments over on the VFTW article about hubs was quite the entertaining mental breakdown desperately trying to contradict simple data.
Some people really need a life and to realize no company loves you back no matter how much unrequited love you give them
in other words, what you can't admit is that you, just like a whole lot of other UA fans, are are incapable of admitting that UA is indeed the largest in SOME regards but not in what matters for a for-profit company to do – make money.
UA has always been status driven and had an incessant need to brag and it only has gotten far worse since Scott Kirby took the helm. He...
in other words, what you can't admit is that you, just like a whole lot of other UA fans, are are incapable of admitting that UA is indeed the largest in SOME regards but not in what matters for a for-profit company to do – make money.
UA has always been status driven and had an incessant need to brag and it only has gotten far worse since Scott Kirby took the helm. He has toned it down because EVERYONE in aviation journalism can see it. Now other UA execs do it.
You melt down everyday you show up here because you can’t deal with the reality that exists.
United burns a whole lot more fuel flying a whole lot more seat miles and yet comes up short in revenue and profits even though it spends about $1.3 billion less on its employees than DL does.
You’re exhausting.
just deal w/ the facts and let them fall where they may.
Thank your for reinforcing what a loser you are
You never cease to amaze how surface level your knowledge ks
"UA has always been status driven and had an incessant need to brag and it only has gotten far worse since Scott Kirby took the helm. He has toned it down because EVERYONE in aviation journalism can see it. Now other UA execs do it."
Honestly is funny that you even pretend to know what anyone in the United executive group or aviation journalists think. Your incessant hatred of Scott Kirby is strange. Did he...
"UA has always been status driven and had an incessant need to brag and it only has gotten far worse since Scott Kirby took the helm. He has toned it down because EVERYONE in aviation journalism can see it. Now other UA execs do it."
Honestly is funny that you even pretend to know what anyone in the United executive group or aviation journalists think. Your incessant hatred of Scott Kirby is strange. Did he hurt you? Aside from getting delta-level profits with NO fortress hubs and an all union workforce, I wouldn't think he's done anything to personally hurt you. Though I acknowledge his ability to turn United around has probably made your brain explode that Delta isn't unique in the slightest way and that United actually is gettting revenue premiums in non-fortress hubs unlike Delta with their Monopoly hub pricing
Hi @Ben
"Before someone jumps in and makes a premium point"... After reading that sentence the first person that came in my mind was Tim Dunn but in a positive sense. I hope Tim Dunn will enlighten us on how United's mainline fleet overtook that of Delta and American. A couple of years ago United had the 3rd largest fleet after American and Delta. Delta still leads in terms of profit but United is coming closer while American is still far behind.
Let’s go star alliance
Bragging about the number of jets only goes so far. Airlines provide a service.
The true metric is how well do they treat the PAX....somewhat hard to measure.
I hear soooo much carping about AA on this website. And "you know who" will sing about the virtues of Delta. Someone needs to pick up the cause for United as a foil to Delta.
As with anything; consistency, reliability, and courtesy goes a long,...
Bragging about the number of jets only goes so far. Airlines provide a service.
The true metric is how well do they treat the PAX....somewhat hard to measure.
I hear soooo much carping about AA on this website. And "you know who" will sing about the virtues of Delta. Someone needs to pick up the cause for United as a foil to Delta.
As with anything; consistency, reliability, and courtesy goes a long, long way in the selection process when its time to put your money down on an airline ticket.
Welcome Aboard!!
Perhaps a peek at this website might be helpful?
https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-top-100-airlines-2024/
This ranking means nothing. China Airlines is #44 and most definitely better than the majority of the carriers above it.
"The true metric is how well do they treat the PAX....somewhat hard to measure."
What is so "true" about that metric? Seeing that it's completely anecdotal, and revolves around individual circumstances.
I'd sing the praises of Qatar Airways any day, but bet the multiple women in Australia that got systematically strip-searched, won't. Yet think there's an investor with 2cents rubbed together, who'll make an assessment on either?
That’s a lot of disgruntled flight attendants
Bracing myself for you know who's arrival to the comments
Voldemort?
Even worse.... tim dunn
The differences in regional fleets are striking: DC 343, UX 460, and AE 609
Can’t wait for the knucklehead to tell us all about the 350 and deltas orders for it.