Korean Air & Asiana Merger To Be Finalized Soon

Korean Air & Asiana Merger To Be Finalized Soon

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In November 2020, plans were announced for a massive airline merger, between Korea’s two largest airlines. This has been one of the most drawn out airline mergers ever, as over four years later, the deal still hasn’t been finalized. However, that’s expected to change soon, and it will have major implications for aviation in Asia and beyond.

Basics of Korean Air’s plan to acquire Asiana Airlines

Shortly after the start of the pandemic, SkyTeam’s Korean Air announced plans to acquire Star Alliance’s Asiana Airlines, in a deal that’s valued at $1.6 billion. At the time, Korean Air was the world’s 18th largest airline, and the plan was for the combined airline to become the 10th largest in the world.

Here are the financial terms of the takeover that were announced at the time, which were complicated due to the ownership structures of the two companies:

  • Korean Air planned to raise ~$2.25 billion via rights offerings
  • Of that money, ~$1.35 billion would be spent to buy new shares to be sold to Asiana, and the balance would be spent on Asiana perpetual bonds
  • Korean Development Bank, the main creditor of Asiana Airlines, would inject ~$722 million into Hanjin KAL, through a rights offering and convertible bonds; in other words, both former parent companies would still have a stake in the combined airline

In many ways, the merger at the time was inevitable due to the impacts of the pandemic. However, arguably there was long term merit to it beyond that.

The truth is that the financial situation at Korean Air and Asiana Airlines was problematic since long before the pandemic. South Korea has a population of around 50 million people, and the country has two full service airlines, making it one of the few countries of its size with two full service airlines.

That doesn’t even begin to address all the competition in South Korea from both foreign airlines and low cost carriers. The deal was probably particularly beneficial for Asiana, which had been on the brink of collapse following the start of the pandemic. In September 2020, the airline received a cash injection from creditors, after the previous largest shareholder pulled out of a sale.

Korean Air will become a much larger airline

This delayed merger should be finalized soon

As you’d expect, airline mergers don’t get approved overnight. When the merger was first announced, the plan was for the deal to be finalized by the second half of 2021, so the expectation was that it would take around a year.

Everything ended up being way more drawn out than that. The reason is because the deal needs approval from 14 different regulatory authorities, and this has been really slow to happen. There’s finally some major progress on that front, as the merger has now received the green light from 13 of 14 regulators.

At this point, the United States is the last remaining country that needs to approve the deal, and the expectation is that this will happen in the coming weeks, by the end of 2024. So while we don’t know exactly when the merger will happen, there’s finally a light at the end of the tunnel.

In the process of getting approval from so many regulators, Korean Air and Asiana have had to make quite some concessions. This ranges from selling Asiana’s cargo business, to transferring routes to Europe to domestic competitor T’Way Air, and much more.

This merger has faced serious delays

What to expect from the new Korean Air

With this merger close to being finalized, what should we expect from the combined airline? First of all, while the two brands will continue to operate separately for the time being, the long term plan is for Korean Air to be the surviving brand, and for Asiana to disappear.

For that matter, the two carriers also have low cost subsidiaries — Korean Air has Jin Air, while Asiana has Air Busan and Air Seoul. The plan is for Jin Air to absorb both Air Busan and Air Seoul, making that quite a large carrier. Jin Air will likely then be bigger than Korea’s two other major low cost carriers, Jeju Air and T’Way Air.

When it comes to commercial arrangements, Korean Air’s partnerships are expected to survive, and not Asiana’s. This means that the combined airline will be part of SkyTeam, and Asiana will leave Star Alliance. Keep in mind that Korean Air and Delta have a joint venture, and cooperate very closely.

So this merger is great news for Delta, given that Korean Air’s network out of Seoul Incheon will get even bigger, and Delta is big in funneling its Asia traffic through that airport (I’m so happy I can write something positive about Delta, so that there’s no meltdown in the comments section!).

This merger is good news for Delta

When it comes to passenger fleets, Korean Air currently has a fleet of 135 aircraft, while Asiana has a fleet of 69 aircraft. Between the mainline fleets of the two airlines, there are currently A220-300s, A321s, A321neos, A330-300s, A350-900s, A380s, 737 MAX 8s, 737-800s, 737-900s, 747-8s, 777-200s, 777-300s, 787-9s, and 787-10s.

So as you can see, there’s a lot of complexity there. A couple of thoughts:

  • Korean Air is undergoing quite the fleet modernization, as it’s currently taking delivery of A321neos, 737 MAX 8s, and 787-10s, and has A350-900s, A350-1000s, and 777-9s, on order
  • For those of us who are fans of A380s and 747-8s, Korean Air’s plan is to retire A380s in the coming years, and keep the 747-8s until the early 2030s
Korean Air is modernizing its fleet

Bottom line

Over four years ago, Korean Air and Asiana Airlines announced plans to merge, creating a new mega-airline. While this was initially supposed to happen within a year, there have been major delays due to regulatory approval. Fortunately this process seems to almost be complete, and the expectation is that the merger will be finalized this month.

This is good news for SkyTeam and bad news for Star Alliance, and probably bad news for consumers on the whole, given that a competitor is being eliminated. Then again, for a country of Korea’s size, two full service airlines may be a bit of an overkill.

It’s going to be really interesting to see how the integration between the two airlines works out, as it’s quite a project. Since Korean Air has a major fleet modernization planned, I imagine we’ll see older aircraft retired pretty aggressively in the coming years.

What do you make of Korean Air’s acquisition of Asiana?

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  1. Weymar Osborne Diamond

    RIP to Asiana Club. Probably the best FFP for earning status that has ever existed. I've had Diamond status since I was 18 and as a young person who loves flying there was no way I could have spent/flown enough with other programs to earn status. I'd imagine the free checked bags and lounge access from Star Gold has saved me thousands of dollars over the years.

  2. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

    So exactly who is saying that the US will give approval by the end of the year? Right now, without any kind of a hint at a source, I think it's the pixies who live in Ben's head. I wouldn't have published this until some kind of official notice from Washington came out.

    And as for your alliance freaks, with Star, you'll go far. With Sky, you'll probably die. With DL, you'll burn in hell.

    1. Mike C Diamond

      Not a biased commenter with a one-eyed view of their team, terminally afraid that their choice will be outshone by some other airline. Any other airline. No, sir-ee!

    2. Tim Dunn Diamond

      whether you understand the process or not, the US DOJ has the opportunity to object for a certain period of time and, if they don't, the process moves forward. That is what happened with AS-HA.

      S. Korea is a very important partner of the US but, specific to aviation, has been an Open Skies country for decades - was one of the first for the US in Asia. Even now, the US has Open Skies...

      whether you understand the process or not, the US DOJ has the opportunity to object for a certain period of time and, if they don't, the process moves forward. That is what happened with AS-HA.

      S. Korea is a very important partner of the US but, specific to aviation, has been an Open Skies country for decades - was one of the first for the US in Asia. Even now, the US has Open Skies with Japan but not at HND, the most valuable airport in Japan. Taiwan also has Open Skies. So the growth of US airlines will be in countries where the US has Open Skies.

      Unlike in Tokyo where the Japanese government has changed its mind about the role of the two Tokyo airports and NRT is supposed to become the carrier for LCCs, S. Korea made ICN the primary international airport years ago and the airport has the capacity to grow.

      OZ and KE overlap each other on many routes including to the US. Simply reallocating those OZ flights to other destinations and having DL add more routes including to LAX and NYC will create a powerhouse of a hub that will far exceed anything that any other airline or alliance/JV can offer.

      We realize that you work for UA; no customer would call ORD their home. If an airline does their job, customers just pass through the airport.

      As for who dies and who burns, we'll leave that to those that can make that decision but it certainly won't be you making the decision.

      Given that KE and DL both have aircraft with much larger gauge over the Pacific than UA, it isn't hard to see that the facts favor their growth at the expense of UA.

      AA has and will continue to have just a token position in Asia.

    3. Redacted Guest

      Tim and ORD share similar mental illnesses

    4. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      At least I admit I have one, unlike Tim.

    5. Tim Dunn Diamond

      you don't have any mental illness.

      you and others want to believe that I do so they can "find" a reason to not believe the truth that I speak.

      and I DO dominate the conversation and take up residence in other people's minds....

    6. A220HubandSpoke Diamond

      Thank you Doctor Dunn for that diagnosis.

      Some of us think you are being perfectly rational in defending your Delta stock portfolio of course.

    7. Julie Guest

      I do enjoy your unfounded sense of omniscience, Tim. That's usually a telltale sign of a mental illness, but enjoy your life, or what little you have of one.

      This from the guy that somehow believes Delta's pacific network is about to outgrow United's despite not having close to the current widebody fleet of United and NOTHING close to the United orderbook for transoceanic aircraft.
      And from the guy that once told us the...

      I do enjoy your unfounded sense of omniscience, Tim. That's usually a telltale sign of a mental illness, but enjoy your life, or what little you have of one.

      This from the guy that somehow believes Delta's pacific network is about to outgrow United's despite not having close to the current widebody fleet of United and NOTHING close to the United orderbook for transoceanic aircraft.
      And from the guy that once told us the A350 has outsold the 787.

      Nice to see from the comment sections you're just as lonely during the holidays as one would expect.

    8. Tim Dunn Diamond

      I am not omniscient... .Just on a couple sites.

      You don't understand growth if you think that the current size dictates the future. DL is getting more widebody aircraft delivered than UA and DL's aircraft are and will be larger.

      Airbus IS DELIVERING more A350s than Boeing is of B787s, esp. to US carriers.

      I'm far from lonely.... just want to make sure you have something to read in YOUR loneliness.

    9. Julie Guest

      "I'm far from lonely.... just want to make sure you have something to read in YOUR loneliness."

      Touching, but your nonstop posting Thanksgiving day and the last few days SCREAM otherwise. But you do have your inflated sense of ego to keep you company as well as your memories of Delta before they fired you. It really is amusing how you attempt to deny it when your days on a.net are so incredibly well-known with...

      "I'm far from lonely.... just want to make sure you have something to read in YOUR loneliness."

      Touching, but your nonstop posting Thanksgiving day and the last few days SCREAM otherwise. But you do have your inflated sense of ego to keep you company as well as your memories of Delta before they fired you. It really is amusing how you attempt to deny it when your days on a.net are so incredibly well-known with regard to who you actually are. Perhaps you should've been a smarter poster and gossiper back in the day.

      But mental illness does keep one deranged, I suppose. Your replies are so utterly pathetic. wow.

    10. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      The antidepressants and antipsychotic I take say otherwise. And one of the big reasons I do what I do is because of your pimping of an airline that has provided me with nothing but horrible flight and ground experiences over the years. So in response to you and those sick people who think DL is "premium" or even good, I'm going to relentlessly promote my airline and my alliance over your garbage ones.

    11. Tim Dunn Diamond

      I do wish you well in your treatment and recovery. Really.
      It does color your view of life and other people.

      As for premium, it is defined by what people pay for its services. and by that definition, Delta is most certainly premium.
      When you fly less than other airlines but get more money, that is the definition of premium.

    12. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      Premium is defined by the service provided. In my experience, that makes Delta as premium as a federal prison, only it's on guards are nicer than okra DAs.

    13. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      Yuck. Auto-predict gone rogue. To rephrase, Delta is as premium as a federal prison, only federal prison guards are nicer and more helpful than Delta FAs.

    14. Tim Dunn Diamond

      yes, the district attorneys that smoke okra are exactly what you meant.

  3. Mallthus Gold

    I’ve flown with both KE and OZ and neither has impressed me. KE were very meh on both the ground and in the air. OZ were fine in the air, even upgrading me to their “we don’t sell first class anymore” business suite seat, but their ground experience was worse than lackluster. The OZ lounges at ICN were grim.

    1. quorumcall Diamond

      Yeah, KE is definitely among the least compelling East Asian partners. They're fine, but not good. Would prefer ANA, JAL, CX, BR, among others on similar trips

    2. Tim Dunn Diamond

      there is no correlation between size and quality. In fact, typically the two are inversely related.

      UA is certainly nowhere near competitive with its Asian competitors but it is the largest airline across the Pacific -for now.

      DL simply intends to close the gap between its JV partners while UA is best matched with LH and their worn out cabins while UA will never be in the same league with NH.

      DL and...

      there is no correlation between size and quality. In fact, typically the two are inversely related.

      UA is certainly nowhere near competitive with its Asian competitors but it is the largest airline across the Pacific -for now.

      DL simply intends to close the gap between its JV partners while UA is best matched with LH and their worn out cabins while UA will never be in the same league with NH.

      DL and KE can and will grow. UA/NH and AA/JL have no growth JVs because of Japanese airport policy. When was the last time a legacy carrier route was added between the US and Japan other than the additional routes to HND that were allowed during covid - and won't be repeated again for a long time if ever.

    3. quorumcall Diamond

      1. Size does not matter in this thread, this is a quality discussion. Ben reviews the quality of the product, not the number of flights per day, for a reason
      2. All of this harping on about ‘Japanese airport policy will kill UA/AA’s opportunities for growth’ nonsense is just that: nonsense. Consider the launch of HKG-DFW recently — transpac growth will happen no matter what is going on at HND
      3. DL’s offering...

      1. Size does not matter in this thread, this is a quality discussion. Ben reviews the quality of the product, not the number of flights per day, for a reason
      2. All of this harping on about ‘Japanese airport policy will kill UA/AA’s opportunities for growth’ nonsense is just that: nonsense. Consider the launch of HKG-DFW recently — transpac growth will happen no matter what is going on at HND
      3. DL’s offering of two connections (one at ICN, one at a U.S. hub) is always going to fall behind UA’s offering of just one connection at SFO

    4. Tim Dunn Diamond

      size does matter... .UA loves to talk about its size... until it is not a factor any more.

      HKG-DFW is precisely because there is no more room to grow at the primary hub... and Hong Kong is not part of a JV with US airlines so it is purely a foreign airline addition with US carrier codeshare, at best.

      The notion that a large hub at SFO is superior to other hubs is a...

      size does matter... .UA loves to talk about its size... until it is not a factor any more.

      HKG-DFW is precisely because there is no more room to grow at the primary hub... and Hong Kong is not part of a JV with US airlines so it is purely a foreign airline addition with US carrier codeshare, at best.

      The notion that a large hub at SFO is superior to other hubs is a narrative of UA fans that cannot accept that UA does in fact hub at NRT...and DL flies to Asia other than Japan from the eastern US. DTW has service to 3 countries on DL, partly a result of DL's dual role of Japan and S. Korea in its network and because of the role of DTW and the superior range of the A350-900.

      UA has ONE large US hub to Asia and one Asian hub. Period. DL has multiple hubs to Asia from the US and will have a far larger JV hub in Asia PLUS will continue to add more point to point routes (or flights other than to Japan and S. Korea.) HKG, SIN and other cities will be re-added to DL's network on its own metal in the coming years just as MEL will be, giving DL no less of an advantage in the S. Pacific than UA has.

    5. quorumcall Diamond

      Wow you truly monitor this comment section like a hawk. Ben already said he wrote something nice about DL for you.... take the win & acknowledge DL got something good out of this but it doesn't kill the UA lead.

      HKG-DFW is precisely because there is no more room to grow at the primary hub...

      there's more to this than slots at HND. keep in mind very restricted China capacity -- as someone...

      Wow you truly monitor this comment section like a hawk. Ben already said he wrote something nice about DL for you.... take the win & acknowledge DL got something good out of this but it doesn't kill the UA lead.

      HKG-DFW is precisely because there is no more room to grow at the primary hub...

      there's more to this than slots at HND. keep in mind very restricted China capacity -- as someone frequently traveling around China and Southeast Asia, HKG and to a lesser extent TPE are the only hubs with connections to a lot of the region. Heck, Kaohsiung, which UA will start the NRT-KHH flight to, can't be accessed by KE mainline.

      The notion that a large hub at SFO is superior to other hubs is a narrative of UA fans that cannot accept that UA does in fact hub at NRT...

      yes, the large hub at SFO is superior, because it enables all kinds of one-stop connections that don't exist on any other U.S.-to-APAC network. is there some other airline that can do BOI-MNL on their own metal? No one is denying the hub at NRT, and in fact if you ask around a lot of people (myself included) are excited by some of the unique routes out of NRT. and I am far from a UA fan -- routes aside, they have numerous issues.

    6. ImmortalSynn Guest

      "HKG, SIN and other cities will be re-added to DL's network on its own metal in the coming years"

      That's just supposition on your part, not fact.

      Anything can happen, but as of now, Delta has not committed to (nor given any indication whatsoever of) returning to either one of those destinations, from anywhere.

  4. Tim Dunn Diamond

    and the growth of DL's TPAC system alongside KE is coming alongside the growth of what will move from a focus city to a hub in AUS over the next 5 years. Add on further int'l growth at BOS, SEA and LAX and DL has alot that will take place at it moves to its 100 year celebration and beyond.

    1. yoloswag420 Guest

      From a genuione place, do you have any idea how the US Asiana flights will be handled?

      I can't imagine them all being axed, otherwise, what would Korean Air do with all those extra widebodies?

      My guess work is that a lot of them are kept like SEA, SFO, etc. LAX might be replaced w/ a Delta metal flight though?

    2. Tim Dunn Diamond

      a 2 year transition during which KE will begin to put its code on OZ flights. In order for KE to put its codes on those flights, DL will have to add some of its own.

      OZ and KE have widebodies that will be retired with fewer types but new aircraft.

      DL wants its own metal in LAX and JFK to ICN. The 35Ks will be heavily used to ICN

    3. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      Death to Delta and all who gladly fly her.

    4. Leigh Guest

      They won't have enough gates in AUS for anything but a focus city... and it's not even relevant to this post idiot

    5. Tim Dunn Diamond

      even 15-20 gates is way more than they have now but 1/4 of the gates will allow a sizeable operation that is up to 3X larger than what DL has now.

      whether Ben tees up the conversation doesn't make it irrelevant including to this discussion.

      While AA withdraws from even more cities, DL will grow. While UA tries to get Boeing to deliver plans to fuel the replacement of RJs, DL will be adding yet...

      even 15-20 gates is way more than they have now but 1/4 of the gates will allow a sizeable operation that is up to 3X larger than what DL has now.

      whether Ben tees up the conversation doesn't make it irrelevant including to this discussion.

      While AA withdraws from even more cities, DL will grow. While UA tries to get Boeing to deliver plans to fuel the replacement of RJs, DL will be adding yet another hub.

      and I do think that DL/KE will give AUS and other small or non-hub cities the TPAC service that they want.

    6. Leigh Guest

      Hi Tim, okay, I'm going to cede a point. As you know WN is the largest at AUS, and they do that with 7 of the 34 gates. With DL likely taking over of the 34 gates, then yes it's a game-changer...the only difference being the aircraft gauge, as DL likely to be more reliant on DL Connection, at least initially. DL will have about twice the destinations compared to AA as of the winter...

      Hi Tim, okay, I'm going to cede a point. As you know WN is the largest at AUS, and they do that with 7 of the 34 gates. With DL likely taking over of the 34 gates, then yes it's a game-changer...the only difference being the aircraft gauge, as DL likely to be more reliant on DL Connection, at least initially. DL will have about twice the destinations compared to AA as of the winter schedule.

      As for the KE/OZ reference, that could be true. I always thought JL would be the first to offer nonstop given the AA alliance, but KE could block them/oneworld by jumping in first...if, of course, supported by the financials...they could be for Asia what BA is for TATL ex AUS.

  5. Tim Dunn Diamond

    The implications of the US allowing the KE/OZ merger to go through without limitations would seem to say that the present size of KE plus OZ in the US plus the size of the JV with DL and any growth potential is not limited - or at least can be managed with very limited slot adjustments.

    The combination of KE plus OZ across the Atlantic moves them far beyond the size of any other carrier...

    The implications of the US allowing the KE/OZ merger to go through without limitations would seem to say that the present size of KE plus OZ in the US plus the size of the JV with DL and any growth potential is not limited - or at least can be managed with very limited slot adjustments.

    The combination of KE plus OZ across the Atlantic moves them far beyond the size of any other carrier in their home country to the US; given how much DL is growing in ICN and will continue to do so both as new routes are added and as A350-1000s enter service will create a powerhouse that no other carrier or alliance can match.

    Add in that DL will grow in E. Asia to other countries but as part of the JV and it is not at all unrealistic to think that DL could take the dominant position across the Pacific between its own metal and its JV

    DL and KE could have an unforgettable Christmas of 2024.

    1. NOLAviator Guest

      they dont have any flights over the atlantic though

    2. Tim Dunn Diamond

      no but AF/KL/VS do

    3. ImmortalSynn Guest

      Yes they do, but that has nothing to do with your "The combination of KE plus OZ across the Atlantic" statement.

      It's okay to just admit a mistake/typo for "Pacific" you know. ;)

  6. Tony Guest

    Star Alliance lately has not done so well. First, it lost SAS and soon will lose Asiana to SkyTeam. Latety, there is not really any good news for Star customers. United does not cooperate well with Singapore or EVA. It depends on the JV with ANA, which does not serve many destinations in Southeast Asia. Short routes, like Ha Noi to HongKong or Ho Chi Minh to Kula Lumpur require long connection and 35,000 miles...

    Star Alliance lately has not done so well. First, it lost SAS and soon will lose Asiana to SkyTeam. Latety, there is not really any good news for Star customers. United does not cooperate well with Singapore or EVA. It depends on the JV with ANA, which does not serve many destinations in Southeast Asia. Short routes, like Ha Noi to HongKong or Ho Chi Minh to Kula Lumpur require long connection and 35,000 miles for a one-way award ticket, which are ridiculous to customers. Star Alliance seems to lose Southeast Asia marketshare to others. And in the last few years, it has not added any new exciting members to the alliance.

    1. CXP Gold

      I was just thinking the same.

      @Ben any thoughts on Star Alliance and where they are headed?

    2. CXP Gold

      On another note, a post on the value of alliances and how they have changed over time could be interesting as well.

    3. yoloswag420 Guest

      You mean United loses Southeast Asia. Singapore Airlines dominates that market in terms of full service carriers.

    4. Tony Guest

      My point is how many times one books a trip from US and see a codeshare or connecting involving Singapore, EVA, Air China? Rarely. One would see United/ANA most of the times.

    5. Baliken Guest

      Star Alliance is very strong in Asia. From my place in Indonesia we fly Star airlines almost exclusively, except domestic in Indonesia. For regional and long haul we have Sq, Nh, Tg, Tk, Eva and other choices, all quite good. For some shorter point to point we might use Air Asia or similar airlines who are not part of any alliance. But generally Star airlines are much more available for us than Sky or Oneworld.

    6. ConcordeBoy Diamond

      United does not cooperate well with Singapore

      Why the reflexive blame for United?

      In the '90s-'10s, it was SQ who rebuffed UA's multiple attempts at a closer cooperation, in favor of US, AS, and even briefly DL.

      Star Alliance seems to lose Southeast Asia marketshare to others.

      Like who?

    7. Tory Guest

      Star will gain ITA soon, stealing it from SkyTeam after LH purchase

    8. Tim Dunn Diamond

      ITA has very little value as part of a JV to N. America compared to even SK which switched alliances.

      Italy is a large local market but there are and will be restrictions on what AZ and UA can do as part of a JV while that does not appear to be the case at least so far with KE/OZ and DL in the ICN market.

    9. ORD_Is_My_Second_Home Diamond

      Hey, Timbits, your precious SAS wasn't a part of the Star joint venture across the Atlantic. alITAlia will be as part of LHG. Suck it up.

  7. Tim Dunn Diamond

    Korean Air and the Korean development bank have waited a long time to finalize this deal. It will rearrange the air service market in Asia and yes Delta will benefit. I expect we will see new routes announced by Korean and Delta in the next few weeks. ICN is simply the best positioned hub in Asia to grow.

  8. Name Guest

    Star Alliance loosing clout and size, bit by bit. Adding ITA does not help much, they need a strong middle east carrier (TK sucks due to poor ground service, IST being a super-long-taxi mess, stressfull boarding and very inconsistent onboard product)

    1. Matt Guest

      I agree TK needs to get its act together. They are too much under political influence. It employs too many Erdoğa cronies, who are loyal to him but have no idea how to run an airline.

    2. quorumcall Diamond

      it's unfortunate because TK has so much promise now that they've moved to the new airport... such an upgrade over Ataturk

    3. NFSF Diamond

      I hated the new mega terminal, makes me wonder how bad the old airport was.

    4. Julia Guest

      What is wrong with the new terminal?

  9. Creditcrunch Diamond

    I just hope VS don’t put the awful B787 on the route when they get the green light to start services.

    1. yoloswag420 Guest

      Yeah I don't understand why VS keeps bringing that terrible product everytime they launch a new route.

      It's 2024, VS need to get w/ the program and update their seats.

  10. Iris Gold

    RIP Asiana and their beautiful livery.

  11. hk Guest

    It appears that KE got a verbal notice from DOJ that they won't sue the merger. Hard to believe but KE said so according to news outlets. Still expecting some conditions from the US but the merger is basically done by now.
    Someone mentioned ICN terminal situation. ICN just finished phase 4 expansion, opening something this week, with T2 being twice larger. The plan is to move Asiana and its LCCs into T2. The...

    It appears that KE got a verbal notice from DOJ that they won't sue the merger. Hard to believe but KE said so according to news outlets. Still expecting some conditions from the US but the merger is basically done by now.
    Someone mentioned ICN terminal situation. ICN just finished phase 4 expansion, opening something this week, with T2 being twice larger. The plan is to move Asiana and its LCCs into T2. The expanded terminal still 'merges' at the central part of T2, meaning crowded central area and people flow issue that Ben recently pointed out will be worse.

    1. ConcordeBoy Diamond

      Hard to believe

      Not hard to believe at all, considering that even with the merged airline and the j/v with DL, you'll still have all three other US longhaul airlines serving ICN from at least 3 different gateways, with nothing stopping them from expanding to additional gateways if they chose.

      USA-ROK have open skies, and ICN isn't particularly constrained, so there's little reason for competitive concern, in an antitrust context............... long as no...

      Hard to believe

      Not hard to believe at all, considering that even with the merged airline and the j/v with DL, you'll still have all three other US longhaul airlines serving ICN from at least 3 different gateways, with nothing stopping them from expanding to additional gateways if they chose.

      USA-ROK have open skies, and ICN isn't particularly constrained, so there's little reason for competitive concern, in an antitrust context............... long as no one brings up the topic of nonstops to Busan. ;)

    2. Hk Guest

      Hard to believe in that such notice was communicated in private. Overall I’m with you that the merger will be approved with no big huddle by now. In fact, according to several news outlets, DOJ has approved the merger. I guess that means it’s DOT’s turn which shouldn’t be too difficult or time consuming.

  12. Roberto Guest

    I love how Ben bubble rapped the comment section for the resident Delta psycho after he threw a fit yesterday.

  13. Mak Guest

    I have no opinion as to whether or not this should be approved, but I am confident in my opinion that this is terrible for those playing the frequent flyer game. Asiana has for years been one of the easiest and cheapest redemptions to Asia, even having excellent availability using Avianca miles. But I have never been able to redeem anything on Korean and they screwed Chase card holders by removing the ability to transfer...

    I have no opinion as to whether or not this should be approved, but I am confident in my opinion that this is terrible for those playing the frequent flyer game. Asiana has for years been one of the easiest and cheapest redemptions to Asia, even having excellent availability using Avianca miles. But I have never been able to redeem anything on Korean and they screwed Chase card holders by removing the ability to transfer Chase miles into their system with little or no warning.

  14. Tony Guest

    For those of us whose main interest in Korea-based airlines is about award redemption for flights to Asia, the merger isn't good news for two reasons:
    1) OZ's US routes completely overlap with KE's, so they'll likely be cut.
    2) Transferability of Mariott points to OZ will likely end (KE disallowed the transfer to its own program earlier this year).

    1. yoloswag420 Guest

      I wonder what'll happen to people booked on Asiana's scheduled routes when the merger happens. Lots of 75k Aeroplan redemptions to be had on Asiana metal.

      Would they really just axe all of the US routes? If so, where would they utilize their widebodies else on? I think there's a case to be made for there to be multiple ICN flights a day from certain hubs.

      I can see KE maintaining the additional Asiana flights...

      I wonder what'll happen to people booked on Asiana's scheduled routes when the merger happens. Lots of 75k Aeroplan redemptions to be had on Asiana metal.

      Would they really just axe all of the US routes? If so, where would they utilize their widebodies else on? I think there's a case to be made for there to be multiple ICN flights a day from certain hubs.

      I can see KE maintaining the additional Asiana flights along the West Coast, modelling how ANA/JAL have multiple daily flights along w/ their JV partners. SFO/SEA might remain, don't know about LAX maybe Delta launches their LAX-ICN flight to replace Asiana?

  15. Mike O. Guest

    What I wonder is how the A321neos fit in all of this as they're equipped with 2 different engines. Since KE will be the operating carrier, do they operate the 2 engines simultaneously or slowly get rid of them? The 777s and A350s can easily be integrated as they use the same engines and they have plenty of life left in them in both carriers. The A350s can easily reconfigured to KE spec. Everything else...

    What I wonder is how the A321neos fit in all of this as they're equipped with 2 different engines. Since KE will be the operating carrier, do they operate the 2 engines simultaneously or slowly get rid of them? The 777s and A350s can easily be integrated as they use the same engines and they have plenty of life left in them in both carriers. The A350s can easily reconfigured to KE spec. Everything else is on their way out.

    Once they're fully integrated, would they be able to fit in Terminal 2 with its partners there as well or they'll have to move back to Terminal 1?

    1. JustinB Diamond

      I’m wondering the same re: terminals. As of now freely flowing between the two terminals isn’t allowed - wonder if that will change as I don’t think T2 can support both without significant consolidation.

    2. Mike O. Guest

      The combined carrier will downsize routes as they a lot of them overlap, but the amount of aircraft is another story. When JAL merged with JAS in '04, they held on to their 777s till 2020 (and they were delivered in '96).

      Looking at both of their 777s age, majority of OZs 777s have been delivered between mid-07 to mid-2013 so plenty of life left in them while KEs 2ERs have been delivered between...

      The combined carrier will downsize routes as they a lot of them overlap, but the amount of aircraft is another story. When JAL merged with JAS in '04, they held on to their 777s till 2020 (and they were delivered in '96).

      Looking at both of their 777s age, majority of OZs 777s have been delivered between mid-07 to mid-2013 so plenty of life left in them while KEs 2ERs have been delivered between '07-'08. But with the 787s and A350s coming in, they can easily be retired.

    3. ORDnHKG Guest

      KE and OZ's 777 and A350 do NOT use the same engines, A350 is RR, 772ER are PW4090, 77W are GE90

    4. Mike O. Guest

      What I meant was that they can easily be integrated as the A350s use Rolls while the 777/A330 use Pratts. The neos use either CFMs (for OZ) or Pratts (for KE).

      For the amount of neos coming in, it'll be interesting to watch what they decide to do.

    5. Mason Guest

      In case if Proximanova spreads a false information again, I'll inform that OZ 777s all have a flatbed business class, with all seats having a direct aisle access. So don't worry about it, although Proximanova keeps faking that it features 2-3-2 angled seats.
      Not a surprise, if you think about where is he coming from tho.

      But KE 772s and some 77Ws have such seats inside.
      Avoid those planes. And their A380s.

      In case if Proximanova spreads a false information again, I'll inform that OZ 777s all have a flatbed business class, with all seats having a direct aisle access. So don't worry about it, although Proximanova keeps faking that it features 2-3-2 angled seats.
      Not a surprise, if you think about where is he coming from tho.

      But KE 772s and some 77Ws have such seats inside.
      Avoid those planes. And their A380s.
      How did they gain a five-star rating with such hardwares, maybe with some momey?

      Happy travels.

  16. Mather Guest

    Why does the us have to give approval?

    1. OCTinPHL Diamond

      The airlines are not required to get U.S. approval, but if the merged entity wants to be able to serve the U.S., they needed to seek U.S. approval. Same as with the E.U. Or China for that matter.

    2. ConcordeBoy Diamond

      It's not so much that they need it to serve the US, it's that the US (and other nations whom the merged airline would serve) may have competitive concerns that require concessions/divestments/etc.

      Also, there's the issue of things such as slots, airport facilities, etc where the bilateral agreement may simply allow for inheritance by the surviving entity, or (as in some countries) require the surviving company to put some/all of them back into a pool...

      It's not so much that they need it to serve the US, it's that the US (and other nations whom the merged airline would serve) may have competitive concerns that require concessions/divestments/etc.

      Also, there's the issue of things such as slots, airport facilities, etc where the bilateral agreement may simply allow for inheritance by the surviving entity, or (as in some countries) require the surviving company to put some/all of them back into a pool to be re-bid or re-purchased.

      Thus, it's better to just get all of this stuff out of the way BEFORE pushing through a merger; rather than have a hasty merger, but then get blindsided by such requirements.

    3. ConcordeBoy Diamond

      P.S. btw, one of the main reasons that companies like Air France and KLM decided to remain separate operations held by a unified entity, is to avoid having to go through all of this.

      Not every country has bilateral treaty with the single unified EU, and as such may still have French rights and Dutch rights for example, which would have to be renegotiated (and potentially lost) if AF/KL were to ever merge certificates into an actual single airline.

    4. Stanley C Diamond

      @Mather why just point out U.S. approval? You do not have an issue with the approval from 13 other regulators? They won’t need it if they just want to drop all of their operations to the U.S.

  17. Proximanova Member

    Really, this has been one of the longest-drawn-out mergers I’ve ever seen, and seems to drag on endlessly along with the process of Oman Air joining Oneworld. For comparison, it took just over 3 years between the Tata Group announcing its takeover of Air India (October 2021) and the cessation of the Vistara brand (November 2024) after being folded into AI.

    Not only will Korean and Asiana merge as such, but so will their respective...

    Really, this has been one of the longest-drawn-out mergers I’ve ever seen, and seems to drag on endlessly along with the process of Oman Air joining Oneworld. For comparison, it took just over 3 years between the Tata Group announcing its takeover of Air India (October 2021) and the cessation of the Vistara brand (November 2024) after being folded into AI.

    Not only will Korean and Asiana merge as such, but so will their respective low-cost subsidiaries, Jin Air for KE and Air Busan and Air Seoul for OZ — in the same way that AirAsia India was merged into Air India Express. That will further delay the process, given that Busan’s municipal government will be far from pleased that its ‘hometown’ airline will no longer exist.

    Moreover, I have to imagine that a new livery and logo will be unveiled at some point in 2025–26, just like Air India had done in 2023, and in fact a trademark for a new logo was revealed in January 2022. I also observed in Ben’s recent KE A321neo review that there’s a new font at the bottom of the moving map, in the ‘Distance Travelled’ section — exactly the same font as the new logo trademark — which hints at a new custom corporate font for KE.

    Moreover South Korea has a large number of independent low-cost carriers, far more than Japan or Taiwan, aside from the ones owned by KE and OZ. While T’Way Air has so far been the main beneficiary, other players like Jeju Air, Eastar Jet and the all-787 operator Air Premia will also need to amp up their game with there being only one full-service carrier going forward. Meanwhile Taiwan shows no signs of having any of its three FSCs (BR, CI and JX) merging with any of the others any time soon, which is surprising to say the very least. I can hear the sound of masonry coming below, but I’ll pay no attention to it!

    1. AirJeff Member

      Disappointing, but expected. Asiana's branding is so much more exciting and I really enjoyed the flights I took with them over the summer, in anticipation of this news. They will be sorely missed.

    2. Mason Guest

      @Proximanova

      I don't need your or anyone's attention, how sad that you tried to act cool but turned out to be different.
      Nice try.

      You seem to not have any idea about the difference between a friendly and a hostile mergers.
      AI-UK merger would take shorter time, because Tata owns both.
      But because KE-OZ merger is between two separate parties and the majority of voices from in and out of the...

      @Proximanova

      I don't need your or anyone's attention, how sad that you tried to act cool but turned out to be different.
      Nice try.

      You seem to not have any idea about the difference between a friendly and a hostile mergers.
      AI-UK merger would take shorter time, because Tata owns both.
      But because KE-OZ merger is between two separate parties and the majority of voices from in and out of the nation were against it, it had to took so long.
      But of course you didn't give a damn, because you thought it was a chance to denounce Korea once again.
      Another nice try.

      Verdict:
      Nice try, you aren't fooling anyone here.
      It's crazy that you do all of those in a good conscience.

  18. Glen Guest

    If South Korea having 2 full service carriers is an overkill, how do you explain Taiwan having three?

    1. Ben Schlappig OMAAT

      @ Glen -- You're absolutely right that Taiwan is the one exception, and is able to have three carriers, despite having so much smaller of a population. The airlines do really well with connecting traffic, and manage to be profitable.

      For whatever reason, it's something that most other markets just can't sustain, and that's also evident based on Korean Air and Asiana's historical financial results.

    2. Eskimo Guest

      I don't think it's an exception. It's overkill and will eventually show.

      Just a revenge business because papa can't be satisfied.

      For now, it's good for customers.

    3. ll5777779 Member

      i would imagine it has something to do with

      1) TSMC. Its biggest customers are all on the US west coast, which probably explains why there are 13x daily flights to SFO/LAX/SEA between CI/BR/JX (and even a 1x daily flight to ONT on CI). There were already strong links between Taiwan and the US tech industry pre-AI boom, but the explosion in demand for advanced chips has probably turbocharged O/D business travel even more.

      ...

      i would imagine it has something to do with

      1) TSMC. Its biggest customers are all on the US west coast, which probably explains why there are 13x daily flights to SFO/LAX/SEA between CI/BR/JX (and even a 1x daily flight to ONT on CI). There were already strong links between Taiwan and the US tech industry pre-AI boom, but the explosion in demand for advanced chips has probably turbocharged O/D business travel even more.

      2) It also appears that the limited nonstop capacity between China and the US has been largely to the gain of the taiwanese airlines. I might attribute to this to the fact that Chinese pax prefer flying on airlines that speak Chinese. I will say, KE does serve a ton more second and third tier cities in China than BR or CI, but most of the profits being made is probably on lucrative long haul business traffic out of places like Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou.

      3) TPE is also (IMO) a marginally better gateway to southeast Asia than ICN. For example, SFO -> TPE -> BKK is 14 hours on the first leg and 4 hours on the second, while SFO -> ICN -> BKK is 13 hours and 6 hours - a saving of 1 hour. Personally, if I need to connect, I usually prefer 1 long leg and 1 short leg, versus 1 medium-long leg and 1 medium-short leg.

    4. yoloswag420 Guest

      It's a very important fact here. Taiwanese carriers speak Mandarin, therefore they can communicate natively with the many Chinese nationals that fly transpacific. There are well over a billion Chinese nationals in the world vs a sum total of 50M South Koreans.

      Cathay Pacific is also seeing a huge resurgence. At the end of the day, for many of the elderly and foreigners, they are more comfortable with communicating in Mandarin, therefore, they end up...

      It's a very important fact here. Taiwanese carriers speak Mandarin, therefore they can communicate natively with the many Chinese nationals that fly transpacific. There are well over a billion Chinese nationals in the world vs a sum total of 50M South Koreans.

      Cathay Pacific is also seeing a huge resurgence. At the end of the day, for many of the elderly and foreigners, they are more comfortable with communicating in Mandarin, therefore, they end up being the preferred choice on both sides of the ocean.

      Furthermore, I think it helps that CI/BR/JX, while all full service, are relatively smaller carriers than KE/ANA/JAL individually. And CI/BR/JX don't need to worry about domestic operations whatsover.

      Finally, Taiwan has vastly higher PPP, around $77k vs Japan's $50k, South Korea at $63k. Which helps a lot for cost structures.

    5. Mike O. Guest

      Before the advent of efficient twins, Japan and South Korea were popular hubs for connections for the Asia-Pacific. You had JAL, Northwest, Asiana and Korean. I intentionally left out didn't ANA as they were a very small airline then and I think they only served HKG and SIN back in the day. EVA and China were much smaller then and had to refuel in ANC from East Coast destinations.

      Now with efficient twins, TPE is...

      Before the advent of efficient twins, Japan and South Korea were popular hubs for connections for the Asia-Pacific. You had JAL, Northwest, Asiana and Korean. I intentionally left out didn't ANA as they were a very small airline then and I think they only served HKG and SIN back in the day. EVA and China were much smaller then and had to refuel in ANC from East Coast destinations.

      Now with efficient twins, TPE is in a much better position geographically for connections. Not everyone on those flights terminate in TPE. And as mentioned above, Mandarin is a huge factor not just spoken in Taiwan, but most if not all of SE Asia so it definitely helps. Cuisine and culture that you're familiar with also helps.

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Roberto Guest

I love how Ben bubble rapped the comment section for the resident Delta psycho after he threw a fit yesterday.

5
Mather Guest

Why does the us have to give approval?

5
Redacted Guest

Tim and ORD share similar mental illnesses

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