Earlier I wrote about how an Israeli journalist and news anchor made some pretty shocking claims regarding how a United Airlines employee treated her during a flight departing Israel. There’s an update, as the fellow passenger she was seemingly accusing of bad behavior has spoken out. It’s not often we get both sides of the story in this way, so this is quite interesting.
In this post:
Woman claims United shames her into moving seats for men
This incident happened on Tuesday, August 15, 2023, and involves United Airlines flight UA85 from Tel Aviv (TLV) to Newark (EWR). The flight was operated by a Boeing 787-10 with the registration code N13018.
Journalist Neria Kraus posted the following to social media (this is verbatim, using Google Translate):
“Haredim on the flight are now trying to move me from seat to seat. Because I am a woman. United Airlines does not handle this by the way. They tell me that because of the flight you will not leave. shame.”
“What a sense of humiliation that the stewardess in charge of United, an Israeli who speaks Hebrew, approaches me and shouts at me that the flight will not take off. And if they do fly, the flight will have to stop in Egypt because of me. Thanks to two amazing Israeli men and women next to me who supported me.”
So yeah, according to her, because her seatmates didn’t want to sit next to a woman, a United Airlines employee yelled at her and told her that she must move, or else the flight wouldn’t depart.
It’s not uncommon for some male passengers (particularly on flights to and from Israel) to refuse to sit next to a female passenger for religious reasons. Based on the reports that I’ve seen, this typically happens a lot more on EL AL than on carriers like United, so I’m a bit surprised to see how the crew reportedly handled this.
To shame a woman for not changing seats, and to shout at her and claim that her unwillingness to switch seats will delay the flight and cause it not to take off, is absurd and beyond basic human dignity. Is that what happened, though? Well, let’s look at the claims of other passengers…
Man claims this story is complete fabrication
The woman posted a picture on social media of the man seated next to her. I didn’t think that was cool, regardless of what he did (and it’s why I didn’t embed the Tweet with the picture in the post). That also made it easy to identify him, which adds a unique wrinkle to this story.
Someone caught up with the guy at Newark Airport when the plane landed, and got his version of events (it would be nice if the guy interviewing him would actually let him speak uninterrupted, rather than constantly talking over him, but that’s a different story). According to the man:
- In a row of three seats, the woman was sitting in one aisle seat, the man was sitting in the other aisle seat, and his son’s friend was sitting in the middle (and his son in the aisle across), and he politely asked if the woman wouldn’t mind switching for another aisle seat, so that they could sit together
- When he asked that question, he had a baseball cap on, but then he took his cap off, and she saw his yamaka
- Once she saw his yamaka, she started repeatedly screaming “discrimination”
- He politely told her she didn’t have to move, but she kept yelling
- When the United flight attendant heard her yelling about “discrimination,” she said that if there’s a fight they’d cancel the flight
It’s good to hear both sides of this story
While we see all kinds of stories of unacceptable passenger behavior, it’s rare that we get both sides, since that’s kind of the nature of social media. So it’s good that in this case we actually got both sides of the story, as it’s not often you get a report like this within a short time of when the plane lands.
Goodness, talk about two very conflicting versions of events here:
- The woman claims that the crew tried to force her to move to accommodate the preferences of men
- The man claims that he just politely asked if she could trade seats with his son, and once she saw his yamaka, she started yelling “discrimination”
The only detail of this event that the two seem to agree on is that a United employee threatened to cancel a flight if there were a problem, and that’s something that sounds very characteristic for United. 😉
As we say for most things in life, typically the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Unless more eyewitnesses come forward, it’s hard to know for sure which party is telling the truth here. On the one hand, I’d be surprised if a United employee tried to force a woman to move to accommodate men, and then threatened her. On the other hand, I’d be surprised if this woman just started yelling “discrimination” for someone politely asking for a seat swap so they can sit next to their son.
Bottom line
An Israeli woman claims she was asked to change seats with a group of men who weren’t comfortable sitting next to a woman. She claims to have refused, but that a United employee then told her that if she wouldn’t move, the flight wouldn’t depart.
We now also have the other side of the story, which is that a man claims he politely asked this woman to switch seats so he could sit in the same row as his son. Initially she was very nice, but as soon as she saw he was wearing a yamaka, she started yelling “discrimination.”
In a case involving El Al, in 2015 an Israeli court mandated that it is forbidden for a crew member to ask a passenger to change seats at the request of another passenger based on gender, the ruling presumably applies to all transport in Israel, including foreign airlines operating in the country. The woman in this case claims that was the situation: gender-driven disclination to accommodate a man's religious belief. The man claims it was...
In a case involving El Al, in 2015 an Israeli court mandated that it is forbidden for a crew member to ask a passenger to change seats at the request of another passenger based on gender, the ruling presumably applies to all transport in Israel, including foreign airlines operating in the country. The woman in this case claims that was the situation: gender-driven disclination to accommodate a man's religious belief. The man claims it was not, just a simple ask to reunify family members on a long flight. Based on the extremely high tension in Israeli society due to extremists in the far-right government's attempts to de-secularize Israeli society and impose a strict interpretation of Jewish laws and customs on society, it isn't surprising that these types of confrontations are occurring with greater regularity.
Yarmulke, not yamaka!
I flew for UAL for 13 years and I tend to agree with the man. First, a F/A would never force a person to change seats. And yes, if I thought there was a safety issue, I would inform the Captain he would make the decision to have them both removed or not. The F/A could not make the decision to divert the plane, so I highly doubt that was said. However, if this happened...
I flew for UAL for 13 years and I tend to agree with the man. First, a F/A would never force a person to change seats. And yes, if I thought there was a safety issue, I would inform the Captain he would make the decision to have them both removed or not. The F/A could not make the decision to divert the plane, so I highly doubt that was said. However, if this happened inflight, then yes, the Captain could decide to divert the plane and remove both passengers if it was deemed to be a safety issue.
A congregant once came his rabbi:
"Rabbi, why do we have a divider in the synagogue? I'd like to sit next my wife!"
"You know David, I'd like to as well!"
The power of connection between man and woman needs no elaboration. It is the potency of this relationship that ensures the perpetuity of humankind.
Every good thing has it's counterpart in the negative. Atomic energy can be used to generate great power, but it...
A congregant once came his rabbi:
"Rabbi, why do we have a divider in the synagogue? I'd like to sit next my wife!"
"You know David, I'd like to as well!"
The power of connection between man and woman needs no elaboration. It is the potency of this relationship that ensures the perpetuity of humankind.
Every good thing has it's counterpart in the negative. Atomic energy can be used to generate great power, but it can also lead to major destruction.
So it is with man and woman and the power of attraction. Touch, sight and close proximity are powerful connectors. This is something to be cherished and preserved for the right setting.
The Torah forbids touch between man and woman who aren't related. Men shouldn't be looking at women in places that they have no business seeing. And a man shouldn't place himself between 2 women and vice versa.
These are divine precepts, but many people, having found the laws of modesty later in life, express gratitude - a feeling that they have their dignity back. That their bodies aren't on display for onlookers to gaze and catcall.
To preserve human dignity and appropriate boundaries isn't sexist. To the contrary.
This doesn't give anyone a right to be unpleasant about it. I can't speak for everyone but I, and many in my community, will politely, calmly and quietly seek to resolve a seating issue if one occurs.
I personally feel very uncomfortable sitting right next to a woman, without space because we're jammed up in cattle class. I aill move seats if seated between two women or if I'm seated next to a women and there isn't adequate space to avoid touching. Also if there is an issue of underdressing.
I'll pleasantly approach someone and offer the same or a more favorable location if they're happy to switch. If they aren't, I'll ask someone else.
Safeguarding these boundaries is an important value for me and not something to compromise on.
Hopefully this provides some perspective on the Jewish position on modesty, and the experience of a religious fellow passenger.
Regards
Eli, everyone has different approaches to religion, but it's good that you understand that if YOU have a problem sitting with women or with anyone else, YOU need to move seats, not the women.
I personally couldn't give a toss about anyone's religions, especially when their customs interfere with common sense or practicality. However, each to their own! Jewish, Muslim, Catholics... everyone has their own traditions, but the rest of the world, we are not...
Eli, everyone has different approaches to religion, but it's good that you understand that if YOU have a problem sitting with women or with anyone else, YOU need to move seats, not the women.
I personally couldn't give a toss about anyone's religions, especially when their customs interfere with common sense or practicality. However, each to their own! Jewish, Muslim, Catholics... everyone has their own traditions, but the rest of the world, we are not obliged to accommodate for each people's religious needs.
The truth likely does lie somewhere in the middle
I will say though, the journalist loses some credibility in claiming that the flight attendant threatened to divert to Egypt which makes no sense. Egypt is the complete opposite direction of the flight path UA85 takes and also, the plane was still sitting on the ground in TLV. So according, to the journalist, the FA was apparently threatening to have the plane take off, go...
The truth likely does lie somewhere in the middle
I will say though, the journalist loses some credibility in claiming that the flight attendant threatened to divert to Egypt which makes no sense. Egypt is the complete opposite direction of the flight path UA85 takes and also, the plane was still sitting on the ground in TLV. So according, to the journalist, the FA was apparently threatening to have the plane take off, go the exact opposite direction of it's normal flight path and divert to Egypt.
I was on the flight and saw the whole thing happened. She’s a journalist that was just looking for Contant. He did not raise his voice even once he just asked his son to sit near him, and besides, the fact that to Israelis on the fight were not defending her they were defending him. She was screaming and talk to her lungs and then fight and tell if we can’t work this out and...
I was on the flight and saw the whole thing happened. She’s a journalist that was just looking for Contant. He did not raise his voice even once he just asked his son to sit near him, and besides, the fact that to Israelis on the fight were not defending her they were defending him. She was screaming and talk to her lungs and then fight and tell if we can’t work this out and then we will have the plane the plane nothing to do with Egypt and it’s very sad and disgusting to post something based off of one side story with force force Contant how can you fix anything of social media is all bogus
Please contact Ben or DansDeals directly, show them proof that you were on the plane and allow them to share your story (even if it is anonymous)
Ben, as many are saying here...you need to listen to this song.
"Shame, Shame on You" by Spade Cooley, a hit in 1945. LOL
I think you will find it amusing and help escape this situation.
Yesterday in a London store, a fully dressed in all black head to toe (meaning very conservative) Middle Eastern Woman rushed into the store and asked where is the Disco?
Everyone turned and looked at her, the...
Ben, as many are saying here...you need to listen to this song.
"Shame, Shame on You" by Spade Cooley, a hit in 1945. LOL
I think you will find it amusing and help escape this situation.
Yesterday in a London store, a fully dressed in all black head to toe (meaning very conservative) Middle Eastern Woman rushed into the store and asked where is the Disco?
Everyone turned and looked at her, the Disco?
Then one woman understood she wanted the Tesco Supermarket store.
We all found it quite amusing because this conservative woman would never go to a disco.
Everything is ok now. No worries.
@ben
I think now would be an appropriate time to apologize for rushing to write a story based on one women's Twitter thread without confirming any parts of it or even waiting for the flight to land. Shame on you.
Marcus..... I don't think an apology is really necessary. But maybe an amended story title with the word "Appears NOT." after the question mark wound be appropriate.
Didn't the original story disappear?
It is much more likely that the journalist lied, because of how much hate she has towards hareidim
While I am a regular reader and a fans of this site and appreciate Ben's insight on different aviation and travel topics, I agree with Marcus this time that, Ben, you were too rush to publish a story from a thread.
This isn't just two sides of a story.
The woman isn't just an innocent passenger, she's an Israeli mainstream media "news" reporter (with an agenda). So while I believe more will come to light, based on the facts currently available (her tweets vs the interviews with Nigel) I would put the blame on her.
Simple solution, book seats together. An enterprising travel agent could do it to.
Happens all the time, nobody cares.
Hey Zalmy L, or Zalmy R?
I care
Ben, please see Dan's story where he interviewed the man himself. It is not surprising in the least that she would scream discrimination without cause, that has happened numerous times in the past, as Dan noted in his story.
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/united/dansdeals-interview-haredi-accused-discrimination-united-israeli-journalist-invented-false-narrative/
What a conniving little B!#ch...... United should ban her for a year traveling on them.
Not sure exactly what everyone is trying to do by comparing this to refusing to sit next to a gay person. It is actually much more similar to a gay man refusing to sit next to ANOTHER gay person, or any male for that matter. I'm an orthodox Jew fully versed in both religious Jewish culture and the nuances of Jewish laws.
It's a man who allegedly refused to sit next to a woman...
I would think it's an upgrade to go from the middle seat to either an isle or window seat