There’s a video going viral on Reddit of someone being kicked off an American Airlines flight. While people get kicked off planes all the time, the backstory here, as well as the man’s reaction, make this pretty noteworthy.
In this post:
American first class passenger forcibly removed from plane
A roughly five minute video has been posted to Reddit, showing an American Airlines first class passenger being removed from a Boeing 737. What’s interesting is how the conflict started that caused the man to be kicked off — it involved a request for a pre-departure beverage.
Time permitting, flight attendants are supposed to serve pre-departure drinks in first class, and it’s something that people seem to have very strong feelings about. I don’t get the passion for it personally, but to each their own.
Anyway, we don’t know what exactly happened leading up to this situation, since there’s no video of it. The man claims that he simply went up to the galley and asked the flight attendant for a pre-departure drink. Meanwhile the passenger seated behind him stated in the video that he acted “aggressively” toward the flight attendant. We don’t have any details beyond that.
What’s captured on video is when an American Airlines agent and a police officer board the aircraft to remove him:
- The man refuses to leave the aircraft, insisting to know what crime he committed
- The man is reminded that the pilot has requested that he get off the plane, but he keeps asking what crime he committed
- The man is repeatedly asked to get off the plane, and told that the crew will not be flying him, but he says that he won’t get off the plane
- Eventually the man starts recording, and the police calls for more support
- Someone takes the man’s phone, and at that point the police move in to handcuff him
- Only once the police take him into custody does he tell them that he’ll voluntarily get off the plane, as he repeatedly tells them to stop
- At this point the man starts screaming and crying, and he really starts bawling as he’s being handcuffed on the ground
You can watch the video for yourself below.
This isn’t how you should act in this situation
As I said above, we don’t know what happened leading up to this incident. Some passengers are ridiculous, some flight attendants are on power trips, and sometimes it’s a combination of the two. I could absolutely see a situation where a reasonable person could get kicked off a flight for having a slight attitude. That being said, two important points…
First of all, once the airline has made the decision to kick you off a flight, and especially once the police has been called, you should just get off the plane. You’re only making the situation worse for yourself by refusing to get off the plane.
I don’t know what exactly goes through peoples’ minds. “Maybe if I just say no, they’ll let me stay onboard?” That’s not how it works, and this is not a situation where you should double down. Furthermore, if you think you’re innocent, just getting off the plane as soon as possible will minimize the damage for you in terms of legal ramifications, as well as any issues with the airline. If you’re truly innocent, try to get contact info for some witnesses who can corroborate your story.
Second of all, this guy repeatedly saying how he didn’t commit a crime is completely irrelevant. You don’t have to commit a crime in order to be kicked off a plane, or to be kicked out of any private business. Peoples’ complete lack of basic understanding of how the law works really is dismaying.
But at the point when the guy is saying all of this, he actually was violating Federal Aviation Regulations, which require following crew member instructions.
Bottom line
A man was kicked off an American Airlines flight after a pre-departure drink dispute. We don’t know what exactly happened leading up to this, other than another passenger confirming that he was acting aggressively.
The decision was made to remove the man from the flight, but he refused. That caused police to be called, and even then he refused to get off the plane, and insisted he hadn’t committed a crime (which is a moot point). Unfortunately for this person, the situation ended with him handcuffed on the ground crying.
Regardless of what leads to a situation like this, c’mon folks, don’t dig yourself a deeper hole. Refusing to get off a plane when the police is there never ends well (I mean, I suppose it ended with a substantial settlement for Dr. Dao, but aside from that…).
What do you make of this incident?
Most important is we do not know what lead up to the event so you are just spreading assumptions or rumors.
The man crossed the line in his refusal to deplane. Once that decision is made it is for the "emotional" and "Psychological" "well-being" of the crew.
He should have been cuffed, given his refusal to comply with the police officers.
Having said the above, the FA's in general have too much power and ego (protected by the Unions). Also, COVID restrictions are long over and FA's should get back to providing the service and courtesy...
The man crossed the line in his refusal to deplane. Once that decision is made it is for the "emotional" and "Psychological" "well-being" of the crew.
He should have been cuffed, given his refusal to comply with the police officers.
Having said the above, the FA's in general have too much power and ego (protected by the Unions). Also, COVID restrictions are long over and FA's should get back to providing the service and courtesy pre-COVID. I have noticed this "laziness" of doing the minimum on other domestic carriers as well.
Why you make a statement on this that f/as are on power trips. REALLY
Until you know our job, you should not make such stupid statements
WHAT THE HELL! I will not be flying AMERICAN
I’m curious why you won’t be flying American, is it because the entitled passenger got kicked off for verbally assaulting the FA for not giving him a drink? Hmmm….hopefully Delta will be serving you a drink with your buddy that got kicked off cuz I think American will be happy not to be serving either of you. Sounds like a pretty ridiculous reason on your part.
I know the headline says "First Class" - but is an AA737 ever "First Class" by more than a domestic moniker for "Business Class" or even "Premium Economy"? Often with domestic flights, the FAs have barely enough time to prep, let alone provide drinks on demand before departure. Which brings back the terminology of First, Business or Economy, often spoiled business travelers are used to the perks in true first/business class on international flights, and...
I know the headline says "First Class" - but is an AA737 ever "First Class" by more than a domestic moniker for "Business Class" or even "Premium Economy"? Often with domestic flights, the FAs have barely enough time to prep, let alone provide drinks on demand before departure. Which brings back the terminology of First, Business or Economy, often spoiled business travelers are used to the perks in true first/business class on international flights, and the utility of a domestic premium offering doesn't quite stack up. Add potentially a bit of pre-departure drinks in the lounge, an over sensitive FA, an over aggressive passenger and you're doomed to have to drink that toxic cocktail.
This went on far too long. They should have simply tasered him and dragged this stupid man-child off the plane. Didn't need to hear his pathetic, entitled whining. Though, it was rather humorous. You can see the ground crew trying to suppress their laughter.
Flight Attendants today have ZERO PEOPLE SKILLS.
When I flew in the 1970’s we would have handled this with class and grace. PERIOD.
There is no guarantee of a pdb (pre departure beverage) on any fight. It is a discretionary policy that involves many factors, including making an om time departure, etc.
causing a fuss about it and being a demanding dickhead is going to get you nowhere . Arguing about whether the captain has the authority to remove you from the flight, will never end well for you .
Ha. This guy went from beta male to homoerotic flamingo in under 4 mins.
Some of you guys are hilarious. The guy verbally assaulted the FA and the captain has final authority. I’ve been flying for 20+ years with American and United. I would never follow a FA to the galley to demand a drink. I would simply wait. Also, the flight attendants are NOT being paid to do PDB. Perhaps WE who fly often (not the ones who get upgraded by sheer dumb luck) should write that in...
Some of you guys are hilarious. The guy verbally assaulted the FA and the captain has final authority. I’ve been flying for 20+ years with American and United. I would never follow a FA to the galley to demand a drink. I would simply wait. Also, the flight attendants are NOT being paid to do PDB. Perhaps WE who fly often (not the ones who get upgraded by sheer dumb luck) should write that in the complaint when you don’t get one because I don’t know about you. But I’m not working for free. They shouldn’t either.
youre not likely to get good service on a US airline. lol @ them wanting to be paid extra to do preflight drinks
He cornered the FA in the forward galley. She retreated to the flight deck where he also followed her demanding a PDB. The flight was 2 hours late. AA policy says if the flights late the FA does not have to provide a PDB. He was aggressive and threatening toward the FA, swearing and threatening her job. So he got the boot.
His next AA experience will be in a church basement.
@Hobbs
I went to AA and started drinking under a different name.
I read the Blue Book. I used to be a friend of Bill W. He changed man.
As a FA I witnessed it all the time where FA including myself get verbally abused by all passengers because they think we are there to serve them thinking they are at a 5 star resort. We as FA are there for their safety the complimentary drink service is optional it's like when people board an aircraft they suddenly becomes brain dead or stupid the way the acts just ridiculous.
As an FA, how do you define what is considered "verbally abused"?
If I'm calling you (and I quote you) "brain dead or stupid" is that verbally abused?
My PC woke equality obsess green wash persona consider that quote "verbally abused" and if you're on my flight I will get you kicked out.
The pilot will ask me what happen all I need to tell is "verbally abused" and gone you go.
Welcome to the passenger side.
You are hilarious and entitled. There will NEVER be a time when YOU will get an FA kicked off or fired! I guarantee it.
Welcome to the Airline and Union side!
Not a FA, but something is wrong if a raised voice or aggressive words or body language is used.
As a passenger can I get an explanation why PDBs are a challenge on US carriers in the name of safety, but carriers in the rest of the world don't see it as interfering with with the cabin crew's safety procedures?
It is not as if the safety record of Singapore Airlines, Qantas, ANA etc is so much worse than AA or Delta.
FA-to-Pax ratio on Asian carriers is much higher than US ones. They have more people available.
I think you are misunderstanding. The safety part comes in for the FA’s to make sure bags are properly stowed, seat belts fastened, galleys are locked, and many more safety related issues, these are the FAA requirements before closing the aircraft door. These come first before any pre departure drinks which are not mandatory, they are given as time permits.
As a passenger, can I get a reasonable explanation why PDBs interfere with US cabin crew's safety procedures, but not with the safety procedures of airlines in so many other parts of the world?
It is not like Singapore Airlines or Qantas have safety issues compared to AA or Delta.
Here’s the problem people in the states are entitled. PDB is a luxury not a requirement. Especially when we are monitoring the cabin making sure everyone does what they are supposed to do, which they don’t because US passengers think “the customer is always right” or “I know my rights”. I’m sure you don’t know that you’re only allowed two bags, per FAA, inside the cabin, but hey who reads the rules those pesky rules...
Here’s the problem people in the states are entitled. PDB is a luxury not a requirement. Especially when we are monitoring the cabin making sure everyone does what they are supposed to do, which they don’t because US passengers think “the customer is always right” or “I know my rights”. I’m sure you don’t know that you’re only allowed two bags, per FAA, inside the cabin, but hey who reads the rules those pesky rules anyway? If everyone would come in, sit in their assigned seat, put away their bags correctly when they get on the plane I promise you, PDB would not be a problem. But people don’t, so it interferes with safety.
Extensive googling has not revealed any such FAA rules. When it comes to size and count of carry ons, anything I can find from the FAA always makes reference to checking your airline's rules. What FAA rule limits the number of carry ons to 2?
@DecentFA
WRONG! I just hope you are never on a power trip ever.
HERE'S THE PROBLEM, stop making $h..t up and hide behind the almighty FAA, DOT, some 3 letter agency, or 'safety' etc.
When you make things up and we try to counter it or even fact check, we become classified as disruptive right away. Like what you're probably thinking of me right now.
" I’m sure you don’t know that you’re...
@DecentFA
WRONG! I just hope you are never on a power trip ever.
HERE'S THE PROBLEM, stop making $h..t up and hide behind the almighty FAA, DOT, some 3 letter agency, or 'safety' etc.
When you make things up and we try to counter it or even fact check, we become classified as disruptive right away. Like what you're probably thinking of me right now.
" I’m sure you don’t know that you’re only allowed two bags, per FAA, inside the cabin, but hey who reads the rules those pesky rules anyway? "
Maybe you should start by reading those non existent FAA rules first?
If you don't even know the rules, please don't cite them. Rules are for our safety, you and I, not for your convenience. If you don't know the rules, how dare you say its for safety reasons.
Look 2, FAs are trying to give explanations which unfortunately (for them) only demonstrate why crews are really the problem. It has nothing to do with PDB at all. PDB is just one of the trigger for crews.
So much heat I took for calling cabin crews authoritarian, but there you go 2 crew comments already.
Strike 1: Cabin crew making up their own FAA rules.
Strike 2: Cabin crew can self determine anything as abusing or disruptive.
Strike 3: Cabin crew have absolute power and abuse it.
The pilot will ask me what happen all I need to tell is "disruptive passenger" and gone you go.
Welcome to the passenger side.
The FAA strictly enforces each airline’s approved carry on baggage policy, which is in fact, 2 items on most airlines. And depending on the kind of ticket you purchase, you may only be allowed to bring 1… which will be enforced by the FAA, as that’s the airlines policy. Do a little better digging before you reply.
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/cabin_safety/regs/acob/media/acob211.pdf
@CV
Oh for the love of the Easter Bunny. Not only do I hope you're not an FA, I hope you're job doesn't involve reading, writing, or upholding any kinds of rule.
Even your statement says it "airline’s approved carry on baggage policy", emphasis on "airline’s", which is not FAA.
FAA is not the cabin crew's personal enforcer like you think.
You made up your own rule, and validate in in your...
@CV
Oh for the love of the Easter Bunny. Not only do I hope you're not an FA, I hope you're job doesn't involve reading, writing, or upholding any kinds of rule.
Even your statement says it "airline’s approved carry on baggage policy", emphasis on "airline’s", which is not FAA.
FAA is not the cabin crew's personal enforcer like you think.
You made up your own rule, and validate in in your mind that FAA will enforce your bogus rule.
It the cabin crew's job to enforce FAA policy (real ones), not the other way around.
You don't even understand what you read, or what you write.
No more digging required, you found the FAR, the actual FAA regulation. You already dig as much as I, or other FA, need. But as long as they are still imagining like you, the authoritarian power trips would never end.
P.S. I forgot how reading is a problem for you. Let me explain like you're 5.
Airline (Flight Attendant) can make a policy to make everyone dress as an Easter Bunny.
Airline (Flight Attendant) will kick any passenger who isn't an Easter Bunny.
FAA doesn't care if anyone is an Easter Bunny or not, as long as Easter Bunny is flying safe.
Therefore, FAA does NOT enforce being an Easter Bunny.
Well, sadly, American flight attendants deserve it. You're the laziest, most overpaid, entitled group of people in the country.
I fly 80+ days a year and I hate you all.
Aren't you a sweetie?
Well, she is right. They are from a snowflake generation and have no idea how to deal with different people and attitudes. If you can’t deal, go housesit or dog sit. He rightfully paid for the drink, hence FC, so no it is not optional. If I pay FC I’m gonna want a drink. All external reasons of why they don’t give him the drink are invalid. It’s not rocket science to get those drinks...
Well, she is right. They are from a snowflake generation and have no idea how to deal with different people and attitudes. If you can’t deal, go housesit or dog sit. He rightfully paid for the drink, hence FC, so no it is not optional. If I pay FC I’m gonna want a drink. All external reasons of why they don’t give him the drink are invalid. It’s not rocket science to get those drinks away right after they are settled to avoid any conflict or misunderstanding and as I see there’s only 3 ppl in FC. Now it’s a different story why these airlines want to save every penny and find reasons to not do their job. The world will get another rich as***** because this is a lawsuit and he will absolutely win it. He was violently violated. The moment he said OK at the end, they cannot touch him.
You obviously don’t fly much. AA FA’s are definitely not snowflakes. Did you watch the video? The entitled, aggressive, whiny, snowflake business class passenger demanded a pre departure drink and the Captain wasn’t having it with his aggressive behavior. The flight was already 2 hours late, they were trying to get it boarded as quickly as they could and he was hampering the boarding process. Pre departure drinks are not on demand, they are given...
You obviously don’t fly much. AA FA’s are definitely not snowflakes. Did you watch the video? The entitled, aggressive, whiny, snowflake business class passenger demanded a pre departure drink and the Captain wasn’t having it with his aggressive behavior. The flight was already 2 hours late, they were trying to get it boarded as quickly as they could and he was hampering the boarding process. Pre departure drinks are not on demand, they are given if time permits. He did not buy a pre departure drink. You only see 3 people in business (AA does it have FC on the 737) because they were moved out of their seats in order to remove Mr. Whiny A**. I can guarantee he will be laughed out of court for suing over a drink and definitely won’t win on that. Now the FA that was verbally abused and he followed into the galley then the cockpit could have some grounds to sue him. JS
When I think about it, I risked being thrown off once.
Was flying LOT on WAW-DUS in Eco. Given I am 6.10, I reserved a seat at the emergency exit, of course. However, there was a last minute aircraft swap to a smaller plane without an emergency exit between the rows. So there was only more legroom in the first row which was sold as European Business class.
I intentionally boarded as the last person...
When I think about it, I risked being thrown off once.
Was flying LOT on WAW-DUS in Eco. Given I am 6.10, I reserved a seat at the emergency exit, of course. However, there was a last minute aircraft swap to a smaller plane without an emergency exit between the rows. So there was only more legroom in the first row which was sold as European Business class.
I intentionally boarded as the last person and the first row remained completely empty. So I explained my situation and kindly asked if I could take a seat in the first row given this special situation. This was declined. Hence, I demonstrated that I can only fit in a regular seat, when one of my leg stays in the aisle. Not only is this uncomfortable but also a risk to the crew and fellow passengers walking through the aisle and lastly for me as well.
As I know that the captain has the last word, I asked the purser to escalate my situation to the captain. He did not show up but the purser let me know that he declined my request. I accepted this but later I thought that the captain might be annoyed by a passenger discussing about seat issues that he simply kicks me off.
Anyway, if I am ever in a similar situation, I would risk being kicked off again. I would voluntarily deplane and file a lawsuit afterwards.
I am suspecting that the guy was mean, demanding, unpleasant and difficult to deal with, but if you signed up for that job and got the promoted to the First Class position, you are supposed to know how to handle difficult and privileged people. If you don't have that kind of skillset, go do gardening, bird-watching or some other conflictless profession. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely have no doubt that the guy is the...
I am suspecting that the guy was mean, demanding, unpleasant and difficult to deal with, but if you signed up for that job and got the promoted to the First Class position, you are supposed to know how to handle difficult and privileged people. If you don't have that kind of skillset, go do gardening, bird-watching or some other conflictless profession. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely have no doubt that the guy is the biggest je*k ever and that I would never want to have any interaction with him in my life, but unless he got physical and threatened the FA (where "I have a million miles and I hang out with Ed Bastian, you will lose your job" does not constitute a real threat of violence) pilot acted "knee-jerk" and as an absolute pu**y. You do not go nuclear on your highest paying customers only because they are being jer*s, which usually goes hand-in-hand with their place in society. Again, not defending the a**hole who demanded his drink, but I am really hoping that pilot at least gets schooled on how to use his "nuclear" button more responsibly.
You don’t get promoted to first class. Most the time the newest flight attendant has to work in the front while the seniors work towards the back of the airplane lol. It’s definitely not a promotion. Lol
That's not always true. Some seniors love working FC.
At AA you bid for positions and even though there are some FA’S that do like FC, most don’t anymore. Since Covid, the flying public has become demanding, entitled brats that the rules don’t apply to and unfortunately anyone and everyone can get a FC seat. just because you can get a FC ticket, does not mean you are a FC person. Most are upgrades now anyway, no extra cost to the pax.
I know a F/A that denied a late boarding first class passenger a PDB because they were preparing to push and he responded by saying he would make her flight Hell if he didn’t get one. That was taken as a threat and the pilot didn’t think twice before booting him from the Trans-Atlantic flight.
Not true at all. Serving 16-24 passengers upfront is much easier than serving 100-160 in coach. It is usually awarded to the senior F/As
How a passenger acts on the ground is a good indication for what’s to come once we are in the air, with nowhere to go. If a passenger is already acting aggressively, then it will likely escalate. If he made the crew uncomfortable in any way they 100% to not have to take him. It doesn’t matter how much they paid for their ticket. Props to the captain for supporting the crew.
Curious why Dao got so much sympathy at the time whereas this guy seems to be getting none. Was it just because Dao was booted for crew?
We know the context of Dr. Dao. Blood probably added the dramatic visuals to the story.
This person's context hasn't been known. If he was asking for water for his meds, yes sympathy. If he was trying to do a Karen, no sympathy.
To me, there are two different issues here. I fly DL and AA almost exclusively twice a month in FC. PDB is hit-and-miss on both of the airlines. It does appear to be at the whim of the F/A, which I think is wrong, especially with the cost of FC going up. I don't see an issue with a paying FC pax asking for a drink. What we don't know is how he asked and...
To me, there are two different issues here. I fly DL and AA almost exclusively twice a month in FC. PDB is hit-and-miss on both of the airlines. It does appear to be at the whim of the F/A, which I think is wrong, especially with the cost of FC going up. I don't see an issue with a paying FC pax asking for a drink. What we don't know is how he asked and how he responded when the F/A said no. At the end of the day, he was asked to leave the airplane and it appeared he was given an opportunity to state his case but at some point, you get up and leave and deal with it in another way. You're never going to win a fight with a police officer. He was stupid to refuse to leave the airplane and at the end got what he deserved.
PBDs are served time permitting. If the flight is delayed, if the plane was not catered on time, if other issues regarding passengers like emergencies during boarding take place then unfortunately PDBs are not served. The plane leaving on time is a priority, safety and security onboard is a priority. Some people seem to not understand that.
PD beverages are time permitted items. As a pax you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes that is causing you not to have a PD beverage. It could be that catering has not arrived yet. It could be meal counts are off so they are working on trying to get those squared away. It could be that the flight is turning faster than it is safe to provide the drink. There...
PD beverages are time permitted items. As a pax you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes that is causing you not to have a PD beverage. It could be that catering has not arrived yet. It could be meal counts are off so they are working on trying to get those squared away. It could be that the flight is turning faster than it is safe to provide the drink. There are a ton of issues and regulations that a typical flier doesn’t pay attention to. Don’t think it’s just as simple as pouring a drink. A lot goes into making your flight as flawless as possible!
What is wrong with America nowadays? Too many things to mention.
Some customers are more difficult than others; that’s life. But I doubt a skilled crew from a quality airline would have let the situation get to this.
He should have complied with the instruction to leave the aircraft, but the thuggery that followed was a violent attack.
And let’s be very clear - if this were a black man being handled...
What is wrong with America nowadays? Too many things to mention.
Some customers are more difficult than others; that’s life. But I doubt a skilled crew from a quality airline would have let the situation get to this.
He should have complied with the instruction to leave the aircraft, but the thuggery that followed was a violent attack.
And let’s be very clear - if this were a black man being handled this way by white law enforcement, the commentary would be very, very different.
The best way to get to your destination on-time and enjoy the flight is to be polite and on your best behavior while in the airport and on the flight. Once someone becomes infamous for a disruption like this, they likely end up on the airline’s no-fly list, their employer might let them go, and getting a job that requires travel will be difficult. A lot to think about before starting a ruckus with the...
The best way to get to your destination on-time and enjoy the flight is to be polite and on your best behavior while in the airport and on the flight. Once someone becomes infamous for a disruption like this, they likely end up on the airline’s no-fly list, their employer might let them go, and getting a job that requires travel will be difficult. A lot to think about before starting a ruckus with the flight crew.
Personally, I could care less about getting a drink pre-departure. Departing on-time is a much higher priority. With almost 3 million miles on AA, I’ve never seen any flight attendants on a power trip, nor even close. The closest I’ve seen to that is an admonishment for super sized luggage that obviously wouldn’t fit in the overhead. But, I have seen passengers treat the crew and other passengers rudely.
While I agree the man should not have even gone to the galley, don't discount a lAAzy American Airlines FA on a power trip.
PDB of choice is a part of the service promise by AA. Too many times I have seen AA FA's play with their phone during the entire boarding process, then at the last second try to hand out cups of water and count that as PDB. Always ask for a...
While I agree the man should not have even gone to the galley, don't discount a lAAzy American Airlines FA on a power trip.
PDB of choice is a part of the service promise by AA. Too many times I have seen AA FA's play with their phone during the entire boarding process, then at the last second try to hand out cups of water and count that as PDB. Always ask for a drink if you want one. If they say no, so be it. (One could always send in a complaint if one wanted to.) NEVER argue with a FA. You have more to lose than they do.
FAs have paperwork that they have to complete and submit before flight on some airlines and with today's technology, a lot of it is done using personal phones or company phones or tablets.
But I guess you know better because you work sooooo much harder than anyone at an airport.
The guy should have been removed but AA sucks at PDB consistency. You board on time and get nothing because the FAs are complaining about something. You board late and get a rushed drink but you get a drink. You board late and get an apology and quick drinks in the air.
I do t know why in this day and age airlines are serving alcohol at all less a pre-departure one. It’s sad when people can’t go a couple of hours or day (if a long or international flight) without a drink or two. Quite frankly, I don’t see it as a perk, which some people obviously take it as a right to have.
Drinks in business class works fine in Europe. Apparently the difference isn't the alcohol.
It’s not worth fighting over a drink, I was a flight attendant for 35 years and pre departure drinks were required but since COVID that was changed. Usually when they ask for alcohol they already have been drinking prior to flying. On long haul international we still did pre-departure drinks. It’s not a good environment for flight attendants these days!!
Typical for US carriers: Overpromising and under-delivering. Pair this with their lazy FAs on a power trip and you got yourself a flight to hell.
"Usually when they ask for alcohol they already have been drinking prior to flying"
What a ridiculous and ignorant statement. There have been plenty of times I have asked for a PDB (with alcohol) after a long day and it would have been my first drink.
Clearly you are part of the problem.
Usually when a FA says no to a PDB they already have been drinking prior to flying.
See... anyone can make a dumb uninformed comment... just like yours. You have no idea what people do before flights.
In my 36 years of flying, little FA with BIG egos on power trips are just as likely to start a problem on a flight.
"Usually when they ask for alcohol..." : an unfair , inaccurate statement, with full of prejudice. I fly with AA, quality of service in the main cabin (extra) , domestic first class, international premium economy dropped gradually since mid 2000's, and this accelerated after 2020. I have been denied soft drink in 2021, when it was AA policy to offer if the passenger requested one .
Oh look another drunk couldn’t wait 25 minutes for a drink. Man sometimes I feel bad for the crew. People today are too entitled. When offered I usually decline a pre departure beverage especially after I learned that most airlines don’t pay their crew for boarding. But that’s just me. I’m an EP with AA. And I’ve seen crews having a bad day with bad attitudes and when that happens, I’m as polite as possible...
Oh look another drunk couldn’t wait 25 minutes for a drink. Man sometimes I feel bad for the crew. People today are too entitled. When offered I usually decline a pre departure beverage especially after I learned that most airlines don’t pay their crew for boarding. But that’s just me. I’m an EP with AA. And I’ve seen crews having a bad day with bad attitudes and when that happens, I’m as polite as possible to them. More often than not the crew is pretty good. Glad he got taken off especially as other passengers said he acted aggressively towards the flight attendant.
After reading all the comments on this fiasco, no one has commented on the person recording the video! It appears based on the vantage point from the galley it must have been another AA employee, a GA, FA, FO? I totally understand the mentality of other pax recording events on aircraft, you see it all the time. I can't imagine another pax in the galley recording a 5 min video without AA personnel objecting, or...
After reading all the comments on this fiasco, no one has commented on the person recording the video! It appears based on the vantage point from the galley it must have been another AA employee, a GA, FA, FO? I totally understand the mentality of other pax recording events on aircraft, you see it all the time. I can't imagine another pax in the galley recording a 5 min video without AA personnel objecting, or interfering! Why would an AA employee record that interaction; AND, AND post it on the internet! If it was for the benefit of AA and you are employed by same, you certainly wouldn't post it publically! Did the employee feel that the customer was being denigrated against and wanted the world to know? If this pax has the wherewithal, I believe that this will end up being another Dr Dao incident based on the video footage in the jetway!
@Stan Ferris
Dr Dao was seated in the main cabin. He was dragged across the floor 3 times as far as this passenger. Therefore the ceiling for a settlement in this case would be 25% of the Dr Dao settlement but that’s really pushing it. From row 3 in F to the jetway is 18 ft ?
This video was taken by a first class passenger standing up with the FA in the galley. The front rows were cleared to allow law enforcement room to handle situation.
Probably did not have catering to serve him a drink! Sometimes you do not get catered until the last minute. If you do not check the catering before you leave, you may well be missing meals! Or more!
The flight was 2 hours delayed and this passenger came on last, and late. That passenger became verbally abusive towards with the FA for not getting him a PDB, as the crew were trying to close the door ASAP to recover some time from the delay. This passenger cornered the FA into the cockpit while verbally abusing them which is how the cockpit got involved. No sympathy for these sad, entitled, latte-sipping douchebags that think their commercial flight is private.
"verbally abusing", LOL. That is the entire root cause.
Different people have different views on what is "abusing".
If some FA decides to go on a power trip, then merely hearing a "no" as a response would possibly qualify as "verbally abusing".
What matters is the FA suddenly becomes the judge, jury, and executioner.
This unlimited power abuse needs to be stopped, or things like this would keep on happening.
Not that this passenger was right or wrong.
No, the root cause of this situation and many more like it, is alcohol.
Gotta say though, that US airlines are pretty quick with throwing people out of the plane for being intoxicated. I’ve had a stern talk with some FAs before a UA longhaul, but never even got a warning with LH, LOT, TAP, Finnair, Etihad…
Just let people be if they aren’t being aggressive or totally blackout drunk.
I STRONGLY disagree. "Just let people be if they aren't being aggressive or totally blackout drunk." Sitting next to someone who has had too much to drink can be a total nightmare. Waiting until someone is aggressive towards airline staff or blakcs out, is not the place to draw the line here.
Agree to the extent if someone is extremely intoxicated. You don't wait until in your air to find out if they are gonna behave themselves.
Max your right nothing worse than a drunk on an airplane.
Yeah... I've had someone throw up on me on a TAP flight that was drunk and staggering around. As a passenger is rather fly in flights without a drunk throwing up on me or throwing up in the cabin and then having to smell that potentially for the rest of the fight.
The officers aren’t helping the situation by speaking in an agitated rapid loud tone. The pax (right or wrong for wanting a PDB) seems calm. Glad he was kicked off but police need to train better on diffusing a situation and not throwing gas on the fire.
We know our job. If there’s time we will serve predeparture drinks. He had no business asking for a drink. Just wait, we will serve you, we have procedures & we go by them
Ugh. Precisely the attitude problem with US flight attendants. You’ve created an expectation by sometimes offering and sometimes not. Even worse you think he’s in the wrong for having audacity to ask. He’s the customer and you are there to serve! Not the other way around. Spare us the union attitude, Heaven help us. Have you flown Middle Eastern airlines or Asian airlines? This situation simply wouldn’t have happened. They would have accommodated (right or...
Ugh. Precisely the attitude problem with US flight attendants. You’ve created an expectation by sometimes offering and sometimes not. Even worse you think he’s in the wrong for having audacity to ask. He’s the customer and you are there to serve! Not the other way around. Spare us the union attitude, Heaven help us. Have you flown Middle Eastern airlines or Asian airlines? This situation simply wouldn’t have happened. They would have accommodated (right or wrong) instead of escalating to prove a power point.
You obviously haven’t read the facts of this episode. There was no power trip on the flight attendant part. He wasn’t being kicked off for asking for a pre departure drink, he was being kicked off for cornering the FA in the galley demanding a PDB when the FA’s were trying to close the door on an already late flight, then following her into the flight deck verbally abusing her and still wanting a drink....
You obviously haven’t read the facts of this episode. There was no power trip on the flight attendant part. He wasn’t being kicked off for asking for a pre departure drink, he was being kicked off for cornering the FA in the galley demanding a PDB when the FA’s were trying to close the door on an already late flight, then following her into the flight deck verbally abusing her and still wanting a drink. That is when thankfully the Captain stepped in. These situations don’t get better in the air. Remove the problem and the flight takes off.
I'm sure *you* do. But I'm not sure the *we* here is justified. No one is denying that there are legitimate reasons for failing to offer PDB service; but more often than not the failure is not due to one of them - which is self-evident to any frequent flyer observing the frequency of missed PDBs now vs. pre-pandemic.
Catering isn't on average later now, and outside of DL, flights aren't on average more delayed...
I'm sure *you* do. But I'm not sure the *we* here is justified. No one is denying that there are legitimate reasons for failing to offer PDB service; but more often than not the failure is not due to one of them - which is self-evident to any frequent flyer observing the frequency of missed PDBs now vs. pre-pandemic.
Catering isn't on average later now, and outside of DL, flights aren't on average more delayed at the boarding stage. Rather, many FAs (again, I'm sure not you!) don't do PDB because they know they can get away with not doing it now.
For someone that is a concierge key, he should know better than demanding a pre departure beverage when already delayed and being already intoxicated he clearly didn’t need one. When there’s already a delay, everyone is working as fast as they can to get the flight out asap, no need to waste time for some whiny little brats PDB when there’s a full plane of people waiting to get to where they need to go....
For someone that is a concierge key, he should know better than demanding a pre departure beverage when already delayed and being already intoxicated he clearly didn’t need one. When there’s already a delay, everyone is working as fast as they can to get the flight out asap, no need to waste time for some whiny little brats PDB when there’s a full plane of people waiting to get to where they need to go. Goes to show you can buy a first class seat, but you can’t buy CLASS!
There could be several reasons behind him not receiving a pre departure beverage. It could have been that he was aggressive to the flight attendant, the plane possibly was not catered yet, or the flight itself was extremely delayed. Usually, if a flight is overly delayed, a flight attendant would skip the pre departure service because they are mainly wanting passengers to board quickly as to not further delay the flight.
Often times I refuse a PDB. BUT I appreciate being offered one. Out of about 50 FC segments in the last year, I think less than 15% of tike I was even asked if I wanted one, much less served one. AA has to do better.
Really? My experience has been quite the opposite and it has been less than 15% of the time where I WASN'T offered a PDB. In fact, I've never not been offered a PDB on 6:00 AM flights. I remember these because whereas most everyone is asking for water or coffee I ask for JD and Coke. And yes, this was all on AA in FC.
There's a post on the Flyertalk forums (AA subforum) where someone asked for a PDB in First class and the FA went and got the pilot and the pilot asked the passenger if there was going to be a problem. So, IMO, it's not quite that far fetched that you may be at risk simply for asking for a PDB on AA.
If the pilot asked me pre-departure if there was "going to be a problem" my first response would be, "I sure hope not, Captain. Are you feeling good about this flight?" The pilot doesn't need to get involved is a request for a beverage. He/She has bigger things on his/her mind.
Way too little information missing from the video to comment meaningfully, but here I go. Abuse of power - the power differential here didn’t call for this degree of overkill. The boot stepped in to squash a bug. The grieved and complaining FA could have literally just been having a bad day, didn’t want to deal with his shit, knew he was gonna be a hassle the whole flight, maybe her boyfriend didn’t text her...
Way too little information missing from the video to comment meaningfully, but here I go. Abuse of power - the power differential here didn’t call for this degree of overkill. The boot stepped in to squash a bug. The grieved and complaining FA could have literally just been having a bad day, didn’t want to deal with his shit, knew he was gonna be a hassle the whole flight, maybe her boyfriend didn’t text her back in time — a classic case of “it’s my word against his,” and “I’m doing it because I can.” In many such confrontation videos I see FAs trying to reason with clearly unstable and belligerent passengers and giving them options and fair warning before resorting to escalation. On top of that, the guys dragging the passenger off the plane in this manner was pure thuggery. There is no excuse for that. Overall, weird flex, AA.
Correction -- way too much*** information missing from the video
Also, WHY are the guys pulling him off the plane shouting like they're in a bar fight? The offending passenger didn't even raise his voice. Such poor form.
It is telling to me that his fellow passengers are telling him to get off the plane.
Exactly. The security guys were just trying to get the plane on its way. Not hard for people to understand unless they still don't get that normal "rights" don't apply in the sky.
That actually tells us nothing. People who know nothing butt in all the time in these situations. All they were doing was making the situation worse.
Like you? Passengers around him know something…
A lot of FAs are on power trips and threaten to or actually get passengers deplaned for absolutely stupid reasons
There are also a lot of "Karen" type paxs
There’s a lot of Karen-type FAs!
Ben, Gary says "It is not a violation of federal law to ‘fail to follow crewmember instructions’ (common misconception). It is a violation of federal to to “interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember’s duties” and that’s what is at issue here."
When you refuse to follow crewmember instructions, specially regarding safety and security onboard, then you’re interfering with crewmembers in the performance of their duties.
I’ve flown with that guy before and he was way more drunk than this . During boarding as his seatmate sits down he says “ so you’re my next victim “. Then twice during the flight the flight attendant told him to calm down. What’s it the business of the passenger seated behind him ? I just don’t see this drunk guy as a threat to performing the flight. Also he’s a first class passenger and good customer. That’s lost revenue now.
Cool story bro.
Sure Jan
Any drunk passenger is a threat to a flight. It’s better to get them off on the ground than deal with them 35,000 feet in the air. That isn’t the kind of revenue you need or want.
We don't know the interaction before hand. How did he ask? How did the flight attendant respond? But any seasoned traveler knows it's not a good idea to get into an argument/confrontation with flight crew even if you think you're right. This guy also should have left when requested, cooled down and the gate agent may have rebooked him. Finally, based upon his really weird actions at the end I have to wonder if he was already intoxicated/drugged/mentally unbalanced?
@George Romey
Now he’s going to go to court with a lawyer and get a fine and community service. American will foolishly ban him and another airline will gladly accept his money.
Airlines are not going to welcome a drunk passanger who wont follow directions. I am glad AA has one less intoxicated pax
That whole situation is a perfect example of white privilege.
Says the racist
No, just people not learning what they should have learned in kindergarten (if not at home)
How so? Also, I am reply number 3, so I am assuming this is a troll post.
April 3, 2023 ALASKA AIRLINES Flight 1430 LAX to PVR was several hours late in taking off because a wheel chaired passenger had a reaction to her medication and unreasonably refused to deplane at the request of the flight and ground crews.
As a passenger on this flight we observed a steady stream of airline employees going back and forth in the aisle to the offending passenger in the back of the plane, as departure...
April 3, 2023 ALASKA AIRLINES Flight 1430 LAX to PVR was several hours late in taking off because a wheel chaired passenger had a reaction to her medication and unreasonably refused to deplane at the request of the flight and ground crews.
As a passenger on this flight we observed a steady stream of airline employees going back and forth in the aisle to the offending passenger in the back of the plane, as departure time came and went.
After over an hour, we were told to deplane and would be reboarded. Once back in the terminal we were told what the incident was and Alaska did not want passengers taking a video of a reluctant passenger being forcefully removed therefore the deplaning.
After about an hour the reboarding occurred and the plane departed 3 hours late. Insult to injury, passengers were only allowed 1 alcoholic drink for the 4 hour flight and when asked why were told there was not enough alcohol on board.
The problem passenger was not Alaska's fault but it seems the crew took an unreasonable amount of time to resolve it. The lack of catering certainly was Alaska's fault especially when they had 3 extra hours to prepare.
Airline catering is usually ordered +24 hours out. Beverage carts are stocked with a standard amount of soda, juice and alcoholic beverages. There are no *extra* liquor kits lying around the airport for situations such as you describe. Also, it’s a 3 hour flight from LAX to PVR. And that’s takeoff to landing. Isn’t one drink enough anyway?
Not for the chronically drunk and the amount of people in the comments that seem to need to go to a different organization that shares the same AA.
Every seasoned (American) traveler can feel this one - of course the passenger was in the wrong by refusing to leave, but we've all seen the lazy FA's that can't be bothered serving a PDB purely due to laziness. If the aircraft is trending late, or catering is slow - fine - but US FA's really need to step up here. It's part of the service of first / business class - some people may...
Every seasoned (American) traveler can feel this one - of course the passenger was in the wrong by refusing to leave, but we've all seen the lazy FA's that can't be bothered serving a PDB purely due to laziness. If the aircraft is trending late, or catering is slow - fine - but US FA's really need to step up here. It's part of the service of first / business class - some people may have raced from another gate and need water/OJ/alcohol (it doesn't matter) - make it happen!
It's a drink.
If you want to get kicked off of a flight and get arrested for a DRINK, then more power to you.
What part of "of course the passenger was in the wrong" did you not read?
How do you know the cause ? There is no evidence to support why it escalated.
Doesn't need evidence or cause. The authoritarian crew can exercise their unlimited power whenever they "feel" there is a threat.
Unfortunately there is a test of what qualify as that "feeling" beyond a subjective power trip.
Probably arguing didn’t help however it’s a natural reaction. Probably better to be polite than disembark, resolve on the ground and be rebooked. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way in most cases as there’s a lot of emotion.
Ultimately we don’t know the full story. Probably never will. People are also quick to pull out their phones and start filming.
It’s been a while since we got a solid ENGAGEMENT post.
Fire up the click engines!
As much as I hate the guy because of what he represents, I actually feel like he was more in the right than the pilot to throw him off of the plane legally. The problem with military guys is they tend to discriminate against males because it makes them look good for the ladies. No doubt the pilot was trying to be a knight in shining armor using his big ego to shield his crew...
As much as I hate the guy because of what he represents, I actually feel like he was more in the right than the pilot to throw him off of the plane legally. The problem with military guys is they tend to discriminate against males because it makes them look good for the ladies. No doubt the pilot was trying to be a knight in shining armor using his big ego to shield his crew from the other one. Certainly not the pilot nor possibly even the flight attendant would have treated a curt woman in that manner, and that is unfortunately gender discrimination. That's the bit that they're trying to hide by not giving a reason because gender discrimination should really be more of a tool for woman to defend themselves against men than the other way around as men clearly have huge advantages over women in other areas (such as physical strength). But, we are insisting that justice is blind, and that's what blind justice would truly be in this case. Airline wronged the guy by putting that pilot in charge of a plane under United States law.
Wow, that's quite a leap to generalize this way. Do you even know that the captain is male?
No. No. No. The second he said he would comply by getting up they had NO reason to drag him off violently. The police are supposed to be patient and are trained to de escalate and HAVE to exhaust every possible non-violent option. When he was walking away and LEFT the aircraft and told them to stop, I understand he legally was to be arrested but they CONTINUED to be VIOLENT, and this just shows...
No. No. No. The second he said he would comply by getting up they had NO reason to drag him off violently. The police are supposed to be patient and are trained to de escalate and HAVE to exhaust every possible non-violent option. When he was walking away and LEFT the aircraft and told them to stop, I understand he legally was to be arrested but they CONTINUED to be VIOLENT, and this just shows how authorities and law enforcement have a serious violence and immaturity problem in the US. The fact that people agree both online and were bystanders to this just shows the compliance with authoritative violence. Americans talk a big game about liberty and anti-government but are so ready to accept violence from police, military and secret services.
I'd argue that *certain* Americans talk a big game about liberty and anti-government, and are also so ready to accept violence from police (when it happens to someone who isn't white). Plenty of folks in America do not do or accept these things, yet are called all kinds of names, vilified by certain media outlets and politicians, and are even removed from their elected seats in government...
As an American, I've always known that violence is not a solution. Violence is THE solution.
The police should be trained as you say, but sadly are not.
I see a nice settlement or two in the guy's future.
Good for him
Glad they got his as* off the flight while on the ground. AA passengers tend to be terrible but so many are alcoholics now needing to get drunk on a 45 min flight lol
@Anna, not hardly. He’ll be lucky to get where he’s going. All those people sitting behind him have already made their statements and they definitely weren’t favorable to him. Hopefully you have enough sense yourself not to act like that on an airplane. Not sure though based on your comment.
Guy will be lucky not to end up on a AA ban list.
He's got ZERO chance of getting money out of this.
No settlement, nor should there be. Pilot/crew says you're off, then you're off. Resisting the lawful order of the police means he escalated this into a criminal matter.
I agree.
Could have been handled way better
While we are missing some of the contexts here, especially what happened before the police were called, from what we do see, the police showed a lot of restraint before finally trying to handcuff the guy.
Of course, I have no idea what is going through the guy's mind (or substance going through his mind), but when you have two officers telling you to leave the plane and then a third at some point,...
While we are missing some of the contexts here, especially what happened before the police were called, from what we do see, the police showed a lot of restraint before finally trying to handcuff the guy.
Of course, I have no idea what is going through the guy's mind (or substance going through his mind), but when you have two officers telling you to leave the plane and then a third at some point, unless he has already had too much to drink and all inhibitions have been lost, he should have used his common sense and just got off the airplane because once the police are there, you are being escorted off.
The crime is trespassing. The plane is private property and the Captain is the agent for the owner. He decides what takes place on the plane. If you do not comply, you are trespassing. Just like at any business or private home, all are private property and you must comply with whomever is in control of the property.
The crime is failure to comply with an airline crew's directive - in this case the directive to leave the airplane. There are specific laws governing conduct inside airplanes. This is not a property crime.
He had paid "rent" - a "premium" ticket for this flight.and expected what AA advertises .
If you booked and paid for a hotel room , no pillows , you go to reception and request the pillows .
There they tell You brisk , we are busy.
Go back to your room . NOW!
OK?
@charlie_b
It's their hotel, they can kick you out.
It's your money, you can choose a different hotel.
Entitlement issues, both sides.
To my mind, the PDB matters because it's a highly reliable indication of what your service is going to be like on that flight. If there's no PDB service on a flight that boards and gets catered on time, your odds of good in-flight service are fairly low. By contrast, I don't think I've ever received a PDB and then had poor service on the remainder of the flight - it's almost a guarantee of a solid work ethic.
That sounds like a pretty reasonable assessment. But forcing the PDB is certainly not going home improve service that may have been destined to be apathetic.
Agreed. Just seems to me that, for an airline that's currently pouring resources into minor FA uniform violations because "better appearance inclines one toward better service," it would be less of a logical leap to put that focus on PDB instead, on the theory that "better service inclines one toward better service." Both are a stretch, but IMHO the second is less so. And who knows, maybe happier pax mean more pleasant crew/pax interactions, and...
Agreed. Just seems to me that, for an airline that's currently pouring resources into minor FA uniform violations because "better appearance inclines one toward better service," it would be less of a logical leap to put that focus on PDB instead, on the theory that "better service inclines one toward better service." Both are a stretch, but IMHO the second is less so. And who knows, maybe happier pax mean more pleasant crew/pax interactions, and fewer incidents like this one.
There is not always time to serve a PDB and also get all the pre-takeoff tasks done.
This guy's mistake was starting to record the cop
Tom, that is correct but more often than not, there IS time. Apathy of the FA's is a huge factor on whether you get a PDB or not - not just timing factors.
Why? Recording the police is 100% legal in the United States, and courts have upheld that time and again. You should always record police interactions.
I bristle at the remark that any private business can kick you out for any reason, because that's not at all true. Also, airlines aren't technically private businesses, it's very much a gray area. I am not saying this guy was right, but let's not falsely jump right to "you have to do anything that anyone tells you if they are a private business", it's A LOT more nuanced than that, this is especially true...
I bristle at the remark that any private business can kick you out for any reason, because that's not at all true. Also, airlines aren't technically private businesses, it's very much a gray area. I am not saying this guy was right, but let's not falsely jump right to "you have to do anything that anyone tells you if they are a private business", it's A LOT more nuanced than that, this is especially true with places that are notorious for going on power trips and abusing their privileges, which definitely includes airlines and airport "police".
@ RCB -- I didn't say (and am not suggesting) that you can be kicked out of a business for any reason. Of course that's not the case -- you generally can't be kicked out for your race, gender, etc. However, I think most businesses reserve the right to remove customers who they find are behaving aggressively, no?
There's a lot of nuance that is missing here, and I just wanted to make sure it was clear that if you've done nothing wrong then don't just follow orders, stand up for yourself, especially in places where power is often abused. That's the only way things change. I agree with you completely that this man wasn't going to win the argument, that plane was not leaving with him on it, but if he truly...
There's a lot of nuance that is missing here, and I just wanted to make sure it was clear that if you've done nothing wrong then don't just follow orders, stand up for yourself, especially in places where power is often abused. That's the only way things change. I agree with you completely that this man wasn't going to win the argument, that plane was not leaving with him on it, but if he truly felt that he had done nothing wrong and was being abused by the system then the only way he'd get any justice is by making a scene, that's when people start paying attention (Doctor Dao, for instance). This guy was probably wrong, but that's not always the case, and if it wasn't then stand up to the bullies, because otherwise nothing is ever done about it. If this guy was right, and I know that's a big if, then it will now be handled properly, it wouldn't have been if he had just left the plane. There is a lot of power in an incident report and investigation.
Sarcastic posts are my favorites.
Of course planes are private property! And can refuse service to anyone (except for the usual illegal discrimination categories). You have no constitutional "right" to fly. Planes are private property. No nuance whatsoever.
Agree with @Todd, planes are private property. The captain has the authority to make a judgement call based on information that he/she has. Arguing with the police or security personnel is fruitless, as they are doing their job to remove the individual. The man should have followed the instructions of police/security - he was not going to argue his way out of this situation.
@RCB
Can you please explain why it's not true, and even better give some examples?
Can you please cite why airlines aren't technically private businesses?
I'm sure ACLU doesn't even agree with you.
And this is coming from someone who agree about 'places that are notorious for going on power trips and abusing their privileges.'
But let me give you a hint, it's not the airport "police", but the "airline gestapo" who can dispatch...
@RCB
Can you please explain why it's not true, and even better give some examples?
Can you please cite why airlines aren't technically private businesses?
I'm sure ACLU doesn't even agree with you.
And this is coming from someone who agree about 'places that are notorious for going on power trips and abusing their privileges.'
But let me give you a hint, it's not the airport "police", but the "airline gestapo" who can dispatch police at will with almost no probably cause.
Good for everyone else on that flight!