Uh Oh: Damning Boeing 737 MAX Text Messages

By: Ben Schlappig

Published: October 19, 2019

74 comments

With the 737 MAX having been grounded globally since March, and with no real indication as to when the plane will be back in the sky, you’d think things couldn’t get much worse for Boeing.

Well, yesterday things got much worse for Boeing. What happened?

The Terrible Boeing 737 MAX Messages

Yesterday some instant messages from November 6, 2016, were revealed, between Mark Forkner, the 737 MAX’s chief technical pilot at the time, and his colleague, Rick Ludtke, a former Boeing engineering employee.

This conversation happened about four months before the FAA certified the 737 MAX in the first place, and unfortunately it points to very similar issues to what ended up downing two 737 MAX aircraft.

In general the conversation has a lot of things they probably wouldn’t want public, like:

“nah, I’m locked in my hotel room with an ice cold grey goose, I’ll probably fire off a few dozen inappropriate emails before I call it a night”
“I’d ask for a job in sales where I can just get paid to drink with customers and lie about how awesome our airplanes are”

But the real issue here pertains to problems with the plane, in particular the MCAS:

“there are still some real fundamental issues that they claim they’re aware of”
“MCAS is now active down to M2. It’s running rampant in the sim on me, at least that’s what Vince thinks is happening.”
“so I basically lied to the regulators (unknowingly)”
“I’m levelling off at 4000ft, 230 knots and the plane is trimming itself like craxy, I’m like, WHAT?”
“granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious”
“they’re all so damn busy, and getting pressure from the program”

All of these messages are of course really, really bad. This is such a big deal because these are the first publicly known observations that the MCAS was acting strangely during testing before the plane ever entered service.

Then There’s The Cover-Up

The added problem is that Boeing apparently didn’t share these messages with regulators for quite a long time. This has caused regulators to write a letter to Boeing demanding an explanation:

“Last night, I reviewed a concerning document that Boeing provided late yesterday to the Department of Transportation. I understand that Boeing discovered the document in its files months ago. I expect your explanation immediately regarding the content of this document and Boeing’s delay in disclosing the document to its safety regulator.”

Following this being made public, Forkner’s lawyer has said the following:

“The simulator was not reading right and had to be fixed to fly like the real plane.”

This suggests that there was a problem with the simulator rather than with the plane as such, though that seems questionable. That’s especially true when you consider Forkner said how they were getting “pressure from the program,” and also that there did end up being a real MCAS issue with the 737 MAX.

What Are The Real Implications Of This?

What remains to be seen is what the real life implications are of this revelation. This is the first known reference to problems with the MCAS, but what does that actually mean for the 737 MAX, and its return to service?

There are two parts of this — both that this was known before the plane was ever certified, and also that Boeing has apparently kept these messages from regulators for months. With that in mind:

Could Boeing be facing massive fines for their negligence here?
Could this greatly increase the compensation claims that airlines can legitimately make with Boeing?
Could this impact the timeline with which the 737 MAX will return to service?

One thing that’s for sure is that this harms public trust in the 737 MAX even more. These messages suggest Boeing knew about the MCAS problems before the plane ever entered commercial service, and if that’s the case, then… wow.

We know that the FAA is taking their time with certifying the plane, but will this slow things down even further?

Unsurprisingly, Boeing stock was down nearly 7% yesterday.

How big of a deal do you think this latest revelation is?

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Hugh Devlin Guest

January 6, 2020, 4:16 pm

Exercising a (A&P Certificate) since1968, I felt confident with Boeing’s supporting inspection/repair guidance was easily understood & effective when followed. Given S/B’s were clearly understood. The BAC guidance bringing a B737-200 from 109,000 to 128,000 was absolutely amazing. Changing the original pneumatic powered thrust reversers to the hydraulically powered target reversers was eye popping. Boeing was the best manufacturing company supporting airline company’s and repair stations. I’m pained seeing a Boeing product like the B737MAX going through these difficulties.

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BillC Gold

October 22, 2019, 1:45 am

@JRMW -- don't take it personally, since I did put that "tongue out" emoji at the end of my post! But I'm more than happy to discuss some of your points -- #1. "Now the Max relies on politics ... Boeing is Too Big To Fail for the US" -- this position is usually taken on matters that do *not* involve loss of lives, so this strikes me as being pretty cynical, even if our political bureaucracies have acted in such manners on other matters! I would think that, with so much at stake, Boeing and the world's aircraft certification agencies will want to earnestly get to the bottom of what went wrong and work diligently to *fix* any and all deficiencies! Otherwise, not just Boeing, but USA will look like $#!+ to the world -- *not* acceptable! To this end, notice that Boeing has already removed Dennis Muilenburg as Chairman of the Board, but letting him retain the title of CEO (for now)! #2. "Which of my facts is in error?" -- your conjectures about re-certification process by world aviation agencies also sound pretty cynical -- certainly there *will* be some politics and influencing, to some degree, but *not* if the MAX has truly been proven to be as safe as possible after incorporating necessary fixes! Keep in mind that all of the relevant nation's certification agencies must *also* look out for the financial interests of their domestic airlines that rely on the MAX for flight revenue generation, so once everything has been *proven* to be safe, then it is to everyone's best interests to get it back in the air ASAP! Besides -- what's the point to hold out once sufficient *proof* of safety has been *validated*? Airlines have already committed to using MAX within their flight routes/aircraft fleets and there are *no* credible alternatives, since they can't just ditch the MAX and go order the NEO from Airbus, unless they want to totally destroy their livelihood and cancel plans for future capacity and route expansions over the next 3-5 years, as Airbus production lines, just like at Boeing, are fully booked for the next "N" years out! BTW -- test pilots who have "flown" the updated MCAS fixes (whether on flight simulators or on actual MAX aircraft) have reported that they're satisfied with the results thus far! But their continuing chase to reduce the amount of "unknown unknowns" continue, as it must! I have nothing to say about your conjectures on the order of re-certifications by various countries. #3. "But I’m an expert in management and operations for large corporations and entities I know how beaurocrats think and work." -- I'm *not* questioning your qualifications in your work profession ... I just think that, when so many lives were lost, and both Boeing's and USA's reputation and credibility are at stake on the world stage, the degree of your cynicism might be a bit overblown and unfair to those who are so diligently trying to implement proper fixes ASAP in order to return the MAX back into revenue service for all affected airlines! But ... I'm NOT faulting you for expressing your personal opinions, since that is totally your right, based on the 1st Amendment! So carry on! :-)

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JRMW Guest

October 21, 2019, 8:51 pm

@Bill Not sure my post constitutes a rant It’s more a cold calculation about the politics of the situation Which of my facts is in error? That Boeing is TBTF? that the Europeans would love it if Airbus took Boeing’s orders? That the Chinese and Latin Americans are angry with our current administration? Yes, there is a lot of conjecture in my post. But I’ll eat my hat if European regulators certify the Max before the Americans. Notice, I said nothing about whether or not the Max is safe to fly. I have no idea. But I’m an expert in management and operations for large corporations and entities I know how beaurocrats think and work. I’m comfortable with my hypothesis Oh: and avoiding the Max is easy for me since Southwest barely serves MSP

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Tony Guest

October 21, 2019, 6:53 pm

There's another excellent article over at Moon of Alabama, who have covered this issue extensively: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/10/737-max-produces-more-bad-news-for-boeing.html#more

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BillC Gold

October 21, 2019, 4:28 pm

@Kye -- "... I was out of a job for 6 month. What can I do legally for compensation?" There's no simple answer to your question, since there are too many variables that could have impacted your situation and status! Was outright discrimination of some sort involved? Was your performance not up to standards? Were you unable to work in a team environment? Was your project cancelled for other reasons that you're not aware of? Was your participation based on "at-will" termination terms? The list goes on and on ...

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