This afternoon I posted about United pricing awards to/from Hong Kong at four miles roundtrip. The deal is dead in the meantime, and obviously everyone is wondering what’s going to happen, so I figured I’d share some thoughts. I’m not a lawyer, so take what I wrote with a grain of salt.
First, I’d suggest being patient and not calling the airline. Why? Because there’s nothing anyone at United can definitively tell you at this point, and there’s no need to bring further attention to this pricing. This happened on a Sunday afternoon, and I suspect thousands of tickets were issued under this pricing. It’s going to take more than a mid-level manager to decide how to handle this situation, and I can’t imagine we’ll know more before tomorrow afternoon.
A lot of people are concerned about getting a refund. Keep in mind United has a free 24 hour cancellation policy, and if they end up not honoring this they’ll most definitely let you cancel after that, since they can’t force you to pay a higher price. So if you’re worried about a refund, don’t be. Period.
Apparently those that had enough miles in their account for what the “standard” price was supposed to be had that number of miles deducted. Be patient and don’t be worried, even if this happened to you. The e-receipt should clearly state the number of miles deducted (four), so they can’t force you to pay the higher price, even beyond the 24 hour cancellation policy they have. So even if they deducted a million miles from your account, just be patient.
What’s interesting about this deal is that if your ticket was issued it’s “valid” as far as the airlines are concerned (for the time being). A reader reported booking a Lufthansa flight departing today under this pricing, and is currently at the airport about to board his flight. At the end of the day when an e-ticket is issued with a ticket number it’s as “real” as it gets. So for those that say there’s a zero percent chance of this being honored, obviously that’s not the case for those that booked a flight departing in a matter of hours. So at least someone will win here.
In my previous post I shared a link to the Department of Transportation regulations, which in part read as follows (bolding mine):
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
A contract of carriage provision that reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchases or reserves the right to raise the fare cannot legalize the practice described above. The Enforcement Office would consider any contract of carriage provision that attempts to relieve a carrier of the prohibition against post-purchase price increase to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. § 41712.
To me this seems to protect the consumer. The key here is that the Department of Transportation regulations supersede the contract of carriage, and that once a confirmation email is received it has to be honored, even if it’s a “mistake.” They way I interpret the above doesn’t seem to suggest they can just unilaterally cancel the ticket, though I suspect this is what some lawyers will be figuring out over the coming days.
Gary disagrees with me (and is a much brighter guy than I’ll ever be):
I disagree, at least it is not obvious to me that an airline saying that the number of miles required for a promotional ‘free’ ticket counts as raising the ‘price’ of that ticket at least as far as DOT regulations are concerned. But then I am not a transportation lawyer.
And that’s why we all need to be patient. I suspect United’s transportation lawyers will be busy tomorrow, and in the meantime all we can do is wait. I’m sure United would hate honoring these tickets, but I’m not convinced they have an option. So I do have to disagree with those of you that say there’s a zero percent chance of this being honored.
Regardless, get your popcorn out and be patient. I’d argue there’s absolutely no risk in letting this play out, even if the higher number of miles were debited.
Update: Reader Eddie points out the following quote from a Wall Street Journal article:
UAL Corp.’s United Airlines, Continental Airlines Inc., Southwest Airlines Co., JetBlue Airways Corp. and Singapore Airlines C6L.SG all say their policy is to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error.
cane: You alway right. Good words I yes with. What I say to your asking is if employee sell at wrong price then scream him get all red-light DVD back or he earn many spankens. And good idea. Get watch doggy too.
I get it too, it was a mistake, but none the less their mistake, not our, we didn't rig the system, nor broke any law, so do you think that their way of admitting of an "error" is the right one?
do you think that a "Corporation" like United should "talk" to their customers thought a post on a "forum", and saying "Hi Everyone". ?
They have our emails, they could (still haven't in...
I get it too, it was a mistake, but none the less their mistake, not our, we didn't rig the system, nor broke any law, so do you think that their way of admitting of an "error" is the right one?
do you think that a "Corporation" like United should "talk" to their customers thought a post on a "forum", and saying "Hi Everyone". ?
They have our emails, they could (still haven't in my case) talk to us directly, you "appreciate [our] understanding" they say but I'll appreciate if they, at least say sorry, in my business if I make a mistake the first words coming out of my mouth are "I'm sorry".
And if make a mistake pricing an item, and next morning my employee sells some of those items, and after a while he realizes that something's wrong and calls me to let me know of my mistake, what do i do?
do i put a post on a blog or try to contact those costumers and see if they understand my position?
Botton line's the costumers paid what they were asked to paid? mistake or no mistake? aware or nor aware of the error?
It's not the customer responsibility to act as the company's watch dog.
Those customers went thought the right channels, they booked the flight, they asked "how much for that ticket?"
"4 miles"
"really? ok... here they are."
"thanks for choosing United have a nice flight"
Now that we know this is a dead deal (and I certainly can't blame them for not honoring this mistake), I think it would be fitting for United to offer 4 miles per itinerary purchased as a gesture of goodwill. Of course, FT would then go haywire with indignity...
Mommypoints just posted this on her website:
Hi Everyone, over the weekend, we discovered a united.com programming error that allowed customers to obtain Mileage Plus travel awards to and from Hong Kong for as little as four miles roundtrip per person, substantially below published levels, which we disclose to customers. We have since corrected the error and will be in contact with customers who have tickets issued at the incorrect award amounts. Customers will...
Mommypoints just posted this on her website:
Hi Everyone, over the weekend, we discovered a united.com programming error that allowed customers to obtain Mileage Plus travel awards to and from Hong Kong for as little as four miles roundtrip per person, substantially below published levels, which we disclose to customers. We have since corrected the error and will be in contact with customers who have tickets issued at the incorrect award amounts. Customers will be given the choice to redeem at the correct mileage amount or re-deposit their award with all fees waived. We regret any inconvenience this has caused you, and appreciate your understanding.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
There is absolutely no reason why UA should honor these tickets; we are the same people that keep bashing them and run to AA when our status matched and we got 8 upgrades.
I can bet you UA will get absolutely no good will from any of us if they accept the mistake and let it go.
It is not personal and business is all that matters.
Wow! Who saw this one coming?! ;)
Well there you have it. It's the "new" United. See below (via Hilary)
"Hi Everyone, over the weekend, we discovered a united.com programming error that allowed customers to obtain Mileage Plus travel awards to and from Hong Kong for as little as four miles roundtrip per person, substantially below published levels, which we disclose to customers. We have since corrected the error and will be in contact with customers who have tickets issued at the...
Well there you have it. It's the "new" United. See below (via Hilary)
"Hi Everyone, over the weekend, we discovered a united.com programming error that allowed customers to obtain Mileage Plus travel awards to and from Hong Kong for as little as four miles roundtrip per person, substantially below published levels, which we disclose to customers. We have since corrected the error and will be in contact with customers who have tickets issued at the incorrect award amounts. Customers will be given the choice to redeem at the correct mileage amount or re-deposit their award with all fees waived. We regret any inconvenience this has caused you, and appreciate your understanding."
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18943095-post649.html
United just came out with a statement that these 4 mile awards will not be honored and the 4 miles refunded.
Kris-
If, as I believe, this will come down to company policy (not legalese), then you have probably identified the single biggest reason they won't honor the tickets.
Again, it will be interesting to see them wiggle out of this crystal clear policy statement "to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error."
Clearly this was a mistake and clearly UA has a policy for when...
Kris-
If, as I believe, this will come down to company policy (not legalese), then you have probably identified the single biggest reason they won't honor the tickets.
Again, it will be interesting to see them wiggle out of this crystal clear policy statement "to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error."
Clearly this was a mistake and clearly UA has a policy for when this happens. Their policy is to honor the tickets. They don't list exceptions, they don't give any ifs, ands or buts.
Other airlines do not have such a consumer friendly policy. United can score huge public relations points by saying they are better than the other airlines and their policy proves it. Let's see if their actions prove it.
Are we all glossing over the fact here that the 2010 United is not the new United. Get me a quote since 3/3/12 and I'll have a little bit of confidence (which is not a good thing in this situation).
John-
And based on what he has said in the past, he will be fighting his own words. Should be interesting to watch.
Phil- Jeff Smisek, UAL's CEO, is a lawyer. He does not give things away for free without a fight.
I just realized my booking is only 8 days away! Hope they don't decide to cancel the tickets in the middle of my trip.
John- While you might or might not be right with your "legal" argument, your comments are directly at odds with the policy of United Airlines and what their leaders have said in the recent past. As Lucky pointed out (via another reader), The Wall Street Journal reported in 2010 that UA's policy is "to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error.
"That is the right thing to...
John- While you might or might not be right with your "legal" argument, your comments are directly at odds with the policy of United Airlines and what their leaders have said in the recent past. As Lucky pointed out (via another reader), The Wall Street Journal reported in 2010 that UA's policy is "to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error.
"That is the right thing to do," says United spokeswoman Robin Urbanski (quoted in 2010).
I think this will come down to company policy so the AA example is apples to oranges. Had this been another airline than your snowball's chance in hell comment would be valid. Airlines like Delta have this covered in their legal language and they do not have a liberal policy like United's nor have they made statements like United has. This is what gives us a little hope.
There was also the AA Cathay mistake first cl fare of summer 2011. AA would not honor. DOT sided with AA. In that case the mistake fare was actually $3800. In this case it is as close to zero as possible.
Easy John. I don't think it's all that likely these will be honored, but I certainly don't think it's as big a slam dunk not a snowball's chance in hell situation as you do. It's not inconceivable that they would honor them.
There is not a snowballs chance in hell UAL will honor this. DOT regulations that Ben listed above I don't think apply to award tickets. Second there have been many mistake fares that airlines have had that they later WOULD NOT honor. i.e. BA India 1st cl mistake fare case. BA would not honor. Several people took them to court and lost, including U.S. cts. (Ask Seth.) More recently AA Qantas 1st class mistake fare...
There is not a snowballs chance in hell UAL will honor this. DOT regulations that Ben listed above I don't think apply to award tickets. Second there have been many mistake fares that airlines have had that they later WOULD NOT honor. i.e. BA India 1st cl mistake fare case. BA would not honor. Several people took them to court and lost, including U.S. cts. (Ask Seth.) More recently AA Qantas 1st class mistake fare case. AA WOULD NOT honor.
Further in this UA 4 mile ticket award ticket in first, people CLEARLY new this was an error. UA award chart clearly shows the actual price.
People seem to think that they deserve something for free.
I'd be happy to lend a semi-local's perspective... having grown up there and came to the US at 14.
@ Mike -- You betcha!
If (big if) the deal sticks, can we have an "all things Hong Kong" post? E.g., with info about the airlines that fly there, the airport, getting into the city, where to stay (and book with points), what/where to eat, etc. I booked, SYD-HKG and hope to be there over NYE!
@Michael - Great answer!!!!!!!!!!
Of course I booked a ticket! Like Louis CK, I live my life through a set of morals and values -- I just don't follow any of them.
To Riposte's great analysis, I would add that it may even be as simple as arguing something like Scrivener's Error. The key saving grace for UA being is that the proper amount of miles was displayed during the whole process until checkout.
As for those who weep for UA, keep in mind this isn't Joe's Seaplane Service, it's a billion-dollar corporation that doesn't give a fcuk about anything but their profits.
I'm still holding my breath..no news is good news, I guess My itinerary is ticketed for next Tuesday.
@ Dave Op -- It does apply on award tickets as well.
Just kidding.
BAH! My ticket was just cancelled!
Lucky,
Does the 24 hour cancellation policy apply to award tickets as well? I am thinking of booking just one person first since there are more availability, then booking another one after. But, I am not an elite status so re-depositing fees apply.
"Keep in mind United has a free 24 hour cancellation policy"
Thanks.
BORAXO, That 24 hour protection was signed in to law this year.
If I were United I would think long and hard about participating in another MegoDO with a bunch of people who are looking for any angle to screw the company. Are these good customers?
Taking advantage of a deliberately designed promotion to an unexpected degree is one thing. It is something else to interpret the obvious error in the checkout process as that the miles earned from purchasing lunch on your Explorer card...
If I were United I would think long and hard about participating in another MegoDO with a bunch of people who are looking for any angle to screw the company. Are these good customers?
Taking advantage of a deliberately designed promotion to an unexpected degree is one thing. It is something else to interpret the obvious error in the checkout process as that the miles earned from purchasing lunch on your Explorer card mile entitle you to a first class round trip ticket to Asia.
I don't know what airline Eddie flies but almost every US carrier including UA has a 24-hour cancellation policy which means you can buy your ticket and cancel for any reason within 24 hours and receive a full refund. So if you make a mistake and click purchase you lose $0.
UA is not going to honor the tickets the award chart clearly shows the mileage required for each ticket and in fact that is...
I don't know what airline Eddie flies but almost every US carrier including UA has a 24-hour cancellation policy which means you can buy your ticket and cancel for any reason within 24 hours and receive a full refund. So if you make a mistake and click purchase you lose $0.
UA is not going to honor the tickets the award chart clearly shows the mileage required for each ticket and in fact that is the amount that was deducted from most accounts even though the receipts listed the wrong price. It is the same as going to WalMart and buying eggs for $1. If your receipt say .01 but your account is charged $1 you will not end up walking out with the eggs if you dispute the charge. Good luck with that!
@Eddie: What airline do you fly where you call them I've minutes after booking to change a date and they charge you a change fee? Sure as hell not United. Not only has United had a 24 hour grace period with no change/cancellation fee for years, but more recently it is illegal for any US airline to not have the 24 hour grace period.
The PR hit United would take for canceling all these...
@Eddie: What airline do you fly where you call them I've minutes after booking to change a date and they charge you a change fee? Sure as hell not United. Not only has United had a 24 hour grace period with no change/cancellation fee for years, but more recently it is illegal for any US airline to not have the 24 hour grace period.
The PR hit United would take for canceling all these tickets would be minuscule. I'm trying as hard as I can to see where in the DOT regs it says airline can't cancel tickets booked on mistake fares, and I just don't see it, and we're talking award tickets, a subject for which it is basically all gray area, giving them even more leeway.
@AdamH I agree this is a technical bug, not a mistake, I have seen some instances of people getting upgrades for much much less than they should have (like $4 vs $300). So the issue is that this bug will probably show up again at some point, in some variation.
You guys must not have much of a relationship with UA if you're going to whack them on such an obvious mistake. Don't plan on asking for any favors from them anytime soon.
Maybe they should honor these awards as ticketed, but they should immediately 86 the pax fom Mileage Plus the next day.
@Riposte
Thank you for what I consider the most eloquent response to this issue so far. I consider this to be slightly different from a mistake fare, in the classical sense, where the wrong fare has been fat fingered. This was some weird technical glitch that was making it price wrong at the bottom of the receipt (ie the numbers didn't add down). The system still seemed to be working correctly in pulling miles...
@Riposte
Thank you for what I consider the most eloquent response to this issue so far. I consider this to be slightly different from a mistake fare, in the classical sense, where the wrong fare has been fat fingered. This was some weird technical glitch that was making it price wrong at the bottom of the receipt (ie the numbers didn't add down). The system still seemed to be working correctly in pulling miles out of account where there were enough miles to pull at yesterday's prices.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out when the folks in Chicago come to work tomorrow.
Michael, I see your perspective however I have a question. Did you book a ticket?
Why is this wrong? I have made mistakes before booking online when I hit the wrong date or did not notice wrong class of service etc and purchased non refundable fares by mistake. I get the email confirmation and call the airline within 5 minutes and they have always said, that the ticket has been issued and that it is non refundable and charge me a change fee to modify it. Why is this any...
Why is this wrong? I have made mistakes before booking online when I hit the wrong date or did not notice wrong class of service etc and purchased non refundable fares by mistake. I get the email confirmation and call the airline within 5 minutes and they have always said, that the ticket has been issued and that it is non refundable and charge me a change fee to modify it. Why is this any different? They made a mistake and if they issued the ticket, should have to respect it. I am not sure why if we make a mistake and purchase something in error because we are human and make mistakes why we have to pay a change fee but they are allowed to make mistakes and penalize us. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
They charge us tons of junk fees for bags, premium seating, etc and should have the systems in place to monitor and verify their fares and award offers on their sites.
In addition, if they over price a fare and it should have been lower, do they ever credit you the difference?
I mean, we are taking about airlines that have consolidated, reduced capacity and competition and price as they wish, they mess up and we should feel bad that we caught it and jumped on it?
Really?
I think we may be a bit to greedy in this community at times, this being on of those times. Its not good enoug flying for free spending the correct amount of miles now. Oh well
@Eddie
You are aware United took away thousands of miles from tons of accounts a few days ago due to a mistake?
This will not be honored in the grand scheme of things, IMO (a few may slip through the cracks with flights today/tomorrow).
He was CEO at the time, we will see if he is an honest guy, meaning he sticks to what he said before. Here is his bio to show he was CEO at the time of the wsj article
Jeffery A. Smisek is the president and CEO of United Continental Holdings Inc., (NYSE:UAL), the holding company for United Airlines. Together with their regional partners, these airlines operate a total of approximately 5,675 flights a day...
He was CEO at the time, we will see if he is an honest guy, meaning he sticks to what he said before. Here is his bio to show he was CEO at the time of the wsj article
Jeffery A. Smisek is the president and CEO of United Continental Holdings Inc., (NYSE:UAL), the holding company for United Airlines. Together with their regional partners, these airlines operate a total of approximately 5,675 flights a day to 372 airports on six continents. Smisek is also a member of the United Continental Holdings, Inc. Board of Directors.
Previously, Smisek was Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Continental Airlines, Inc. Smisek joined Continental in 1995 as Senior Vice President and General Counsel. In 2004, he became President and was elected to the company’s board of directors. He became President and Chief Operating Officer in September 2008 and assumed the role of Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer in January 2010.[1]
Here is the link to full article but I will explain to United if they try to call and cancel that Smisek and Co said this and they need to keep their word.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704266504575141644282587882.html
@ Eddie -- VERY nice find!
This is a direct quote from a WSJ article 18 months ago. Smisek was the CEo of continental then. We will see.
UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, Continental Airlines Inc., Southwest Airlines Co., LUV +1.40% JetBlue Airways Corp. JBLU +1.59% and Singapore Airlines C6L.SG +0.28% all say their policy is to not cancel tickets even when a mistake is discovered, no matter how large the error.
I see it playing out like this:
UA cancels the tickets due to the obvious mistake. DOT proceeds by either upholding UA's decision (saying award tickets don't require the same consumer protections as revenue tickets), or they force UA to honor the tickets based on the regulations Lucky cited above.
If DOT forces UA to comply, UA won't go down easily. They will fight a lengthy battle in court, even if the court costs far...
I see it playing out like this:
UA cancels the tickets due to the obvious mistake. DOT proceeds by either upholding UA's decision (saying award tickets don't require the same consumer protections as revenue tickets), or they force UA to honor the tickets based on the regulations Lucky cited above.
If DOT forces UA to comply, UA won't go down easily. They will fight a lengthy battle in court, even if the court costs far exceed the cost of honoring the tickets--in the event that DOT's order is overturned, this sets a precedent that mistakes in award ticket pricing do not fall under DOT regulations. Either way, this is a precedent-setting scenario for award tickets and the new DOT regulations, and future mistakes on non-revenue tickets will look to this case as an example of how to proceed.
I personally hope the tickets are honored--fingers crossed my RT ORD-HKG sticks--but I think it's a long shot (but I'm no lawyer, so what do I know?) Should be fun to watch, though!
I am a lawyer, but this is not legal advice.
Reading the two paragraphs that Lucky posted *in isolation*, there is nothing there which prevents the airline from cancelling a ticket issued with a pricing error. There is only a prohibition from increasing the price after the deal is struck. The second paragraph's reference to a provision that "reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchase" doesn't invalidate that right, but only to invalidate using...
I am a lawyer, but this is not legal advice.
Reading the two paragraphs that Lucky posted *in isolation*, there is nothing there which prevents the airline from cancelling a ticket issued with a pricing error. There is only a prohibition from increasing the price after the deal is struck. The second paragraph's reference to a provision that "reserves the right to cancel such ticketed purchase" doesn't invalidate that right, but only to invalidate using that right to increase the price (i.e. the airline can't cancel your ticket and immediately reissue one to you with the higher, correct price).
There is also a doctrine under contract law known as unilateral mistake, which can lead to a contract being voided. The analysis is technical and I'm not going to go through it, but speaking generally, courts have been reluctant to enforce a contract where there the non-mistaken party knew of the mistaken party's mistake and it's unconscionable for the former party to enforce it.
Regardless of the legal position, the practical reality is that this is really a question of customer service for UA. If there's any legal doubt, they may honor the deal or try and offer something as compensation for the mistake. They might do that even if there's no doubt and they're feeling generous. If they want to draw a line in the sand, then they'll cancel the tickets. I doubt anyone's really going to spend the time and money suing them to enforce. If people bitch about it online, I doubt anyone's really going to have sympathy for them, so it's not going to be a PR disaster for them.
Booked my "cash" portion with my Chase Sapphire card. Any thoughts on credit card protections for the trip?
While I am not a transportation attorney I am an attorney and I would advise United NOT to honor these tickets on the theory that the DOT regulations do not apply to award tickets and that "price" means money only and not points. I would advise the airline to use this as an opportunity to test the regulation if anyone pursues legal action. This is a good fact pattern to get a favorable ruling for...
While I am not a transportation attorney I am an attorney and I would advise United NOT to honor these tickets on the theory that the DOT regulations do not apply to award tickets and that "price" means money only and not points. I would advise the airline to use this as an opportunity to test the regulation if anyone pursues legal action. This is a good fact pattern to get a favorable ruling for the airline given how clear this was a mistake. In fact this blog and all the others demonstrate that nearly everyone with a ticket was aware and taking advantage of the airline's mistake. As pointed out above if a consumer made a mistake purchasing a non-refundable ticket the airline would not allow a refund although they do give 24 hours to cancel. United could still meet that threshold here. Finally there is a substantial amount of money at stake making it highly likely United would be willing to litigate and I don't think there is much of a public relations problem with this one as the mistake is so egregious that those taking of advantage of it could be portrayed quite negatively in the media. Good luck to those of you who booked a ticket but don't be too disappointed if not honored.
Well, my reservation just showed up in Award Wallet. Not that it matters any. But there is no doubt that it has been ticketed.
I say it's at best 80-20 that they won't honor them. As long as they apply a consistent resolution to it then I will accept either decision.
@hello
That's re: issues with the actual frequent flyer programs, not re: confirmed ticketed air travel.
https://ntl.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/296/kw/air%20travel/session/L3RpbWUvMTM0MjM4MjExMi9zaWQvNjM4OXhkMWw%3D
@LarryInNYC - my final email shows payment made with 8 miles and the cost to my credit card (united card that is).
Will be fun to watch!
@ LarryInNYC -- Interesting. Is your interpretation based on the above quoted section? If so, as far as I can tell it says "and/or" as opposed to "and," so it suggests an email confirmation is enough, no?
Ben, I think United may have an out.
The DOT regulation as you quoted it covers flights for which the customer has made FULL PAYMENT. My understanding is that some people (those with enough miles) had the full, non-discounted number of miles deducted.
But people without enough miles had NO miles deducted from their accounts (that is, United did not take the four or eight miles from the quoted amount). Therefore, the transaction may be...
Ben, I think United may have an out.
The DOT regulation as you quoted it covers flights for which the customer has made FULL PAYMENT. My understanding is that some people (those with enough miles) had the full, non-discounted number of miles deducted.
But people without enough miles had NO miles deducted from their accounts (that is, United did not take the four or eight miles from the quoted amount). Therefore, the transaction may be considered not consummated and United might be off the hook.
I have no more legal knowledge than anyone else offering their opinion on this, but a plain reading of the regulation makes this seem at least possible to me.
Honey chile, I'm gon' kick some boo-tay if they tryna cross me. I be flyin' phlashy phirst class fo' 8 milez.
You can go and tell DAT, home boy.
People are just fucked up. If we know it's a mistake and they don't honor it, fine.. just let it go.. don't be taking it to court and demanding crap. Where's the sense of morals? Is this how we will raise the next generation?
It's so funny how people will inteperate anything so it makes sense to what we can gain and so that it makes us feel like we have a clean conscienous.
I'm next on the ATM line.
...have you guys had any experience with COdbaUA post-merger? They'll whip out the crack IT team that is (apparently) usually locked up and they will have all these tickets voided within a week. And only if you're lucky, they'll send you an email after the fact letting you know that it was cancelled.
And traveling on it today? I hope your reader is brave and has an alternate way home. I have no doubt that they would not hesitate to cancel the return and strand them.
I'm at 60% confidence.
Michael: Wow, where is this ATM? Me first!
@panam - if I told you that if you go to bank of America and withdraw $120 - $12,000 will spit out, would you do it? We clearly have different interpretations of what is "right" -- but I'll get off my high horse now...
Cory: You have no idea of whether or not I or others are stupid. It's very possible that some of us, myself included may be extraordinarily stupid. So, speak for yourself.
Micahel: http://bit.ly/OHUVDX
Both of you: OMG, shut up already. The soups gone cold.
@Ben #15: Agreed. If I accidentally book for the wrong date, or whatever, I'm locked in. UA won't say, you know, it was a mistake go ahead and change to the correct date, no worries.
@Michael: So it's OK if the mistake is "reasonable"? EVen if $18 is "obvious", at what point is it morally OK to take advantage of the mistake and when is it not? 10% off, 20% off??
You still sound awfully sanctimonious to me, Michael. I guess I just see no moral issues with taking advantage of a mistake fare. We're not stupid, we know this is a mistake. I know some tried to claim it was a reasonable expectation back in the 83,000 AA miles for a headphone fiasco, but they were just trying to talk themselves into something.
I made my booking with the full understanding that this was a...
You still sound awfully sanctimonious to me, Michael. I guess I just see no moral issues with taking advantage of a mistake fare. We're not stupid, we know this is a mistake. I know some tried to claim it was a reasonable expectation back in the 83,000 AA miles for a headphone fiasco, but they were just trying to talk themselves into something.
I made my booking with the full understanding that this was a mistake. Mistake or not, they sold me a flight at a price. I paid that price. This is a service they can deny me if they choose, that's their choice.
If they honor the fare, does it still rise to immoral behavior on your scale of morality? Nevermind, I don't really care :)
Didn't KE have the same issue months ago and they didn't honour the tickets? They simply said, "not gonna do it."
It's not a high horse -
I'm all for taking advantage of mistake fares that actually could be construed as reasonable (those BA $1800 biz fares recently some termed mistake
Because they were so good -- but what if the fare was $18.00? It's obvious a mistake). I'm also not convinced that because United has reamed passengers in the past, we are justified to stick it to them.
I'm not defending United...
It's not a high horse -
I'm all for taking advantage of mistake fares that actually could be construed as reasonable (those BA $1800 biz fares recently some termed mistake
Because they were so good -- but what if the fare was $18.00? It's obvious a mistake). I'm also not convinced that because United has reamed passengers in the past, we are justified to stick it to them.
I'm not defending United - but I've lived a long time and have learned that it is wise to conduct oneself with a moral imperative--I could give me lots of reasons to do so, but I really don't need to, do I?
Doesn't the same receipt that shows 4 miles show the correct amount of miles earlier?
Here's what mine shows:
2 Award 640,000 Miles
Additional Taxes/Fees $81.00
Total Fare 8 Miles and $81.00
I think the disclosure of the correct miles all the way through the process until the very final step means that the regulations don't compel them to honor the 8 mile cost.
This will absolutely not be honored. Next.
If a customer makes a mistake in booking a ticket, airlines are quick to hold customers to their commitment and charge change fees, why shouldn't we expect airlines to have to honor prices when they make "mistakes". These companies are in the best position to put into place redundancies and quality checks to make sure these mistakes don't occur. There are plenty of examples of retailers having to honor mistake prices that are posted to their websites.
@ UnHappy; I was thinking that as well; if they downgraded me to Economy for 4miles & $75. I'd be happy...
They can always downgrade to economy with absolutely no repercussions.
Andrew, If I fly for 4 miles I definitely consider that a win. Not only do I consider it a win, I put it in the pantheon of greatest wins of all time. I see a flight advertised at a certain price that I want to pay, I will pay it. Yeah, this is obviously a mistake fare. I'm not stupid enough to suggest otherwise. The marketplace is like a game to me. You are...
Andrew, If I fly for 4 miles I definitely consider that a win. Not only do I consider it a win, I put it in the pantheon of greatest wins of all time. I see a flight advertised at a certain price that I want to pay, I will pay it. Yeah, this is obviously a mistake fare. I'm not stupid enough to suggest otherwise. The marketplace is like a game to me. You are always playing it in a way to maximize your advantage. If this fare is not honored, then it's advantage: Push. If it is, Advantage: Cory.
F for less all the way
This is going to be a vry fun trip! Twice! OZ F!
@ Cory. Nickel and dime us?! I've earned 300,000 United miles this year from credit card sign ups w/o paying a cent. I don't think it's a "win" @ Lucky to take advantage of a computer glitch and take flights for 4 miles -- I think it's a win to collect miles that companies actually want to give us (for what economic reason, I sometimes can't figure out) and enjoy them legitimately.
Michael,
Why are you hating? As if someone missed the boat and wishes the worst for those who didn't.
Get off your high horse Michael. Seriously, I am sure if United has a way of getting out of this they will. The airlines nickle and dime us to death all of the time. This kind of thing doesn't even the score at all, but if it works it works. The difference in your example to Lucky is that in the case of these flights if United doesn't honor them then not only are they...
Get off your high horse Michael. Seriously, I am sure if United has a way of getting out of this they will. The airlines nickle and dime us to death all of the time. This kind of thing doesn't even the score at all, but if it works it works. The difference in your example to Lucky is that in the case of these flights if United doesn't honor them then not only are they not out money on mistake fares, but the consumer isn't out money either and we all go on with our lives.
So thank you for your $.02, if it's worth that. If you don't like it then don't participate. Don't be such a sanctimonious jerk
@vince,
Now that was funny!
@ Michael A better analogy would be that Lucky e-mailed you an invoice before he rendered his services. The invoice was for $45 accidentally, not $4,500 as is "standard." His system then confirmed in an e-mail with his terms and conditions that you were paid in full. Should he be obligated to provide you the service because of this? It's an interesting conundrum but you've got it a bit tilted.
I agree with you interpretation; Now I just gotta find hotels to stay in :)
This was obviously a Mistake Fare and a blatant one at that - you seem to have no moral or ethical issues with reaming (taking advantage for yourself and encouraging others to do the same) an industry that you make a living on.
What if the shoe was on the other foot? I ask you to book award tickets 30 people for a family reunion for your booking service and you quote me a fee...
This was obviously a Mistake Fare and a blatant one at that - you seem to have no moral or ethical issues with reaming (taking advantage for yourself and encouraging others to do the same) an industry that you make a living on.
What if the shoe was on the other foot? I ask you to book award tickets 30 people for a family reunion for your booking service and you quote me a fee of $150 per person. Three weeks of hard work later, tickets are booked and you send me a paypal bill for $45.00 and I immediately paypal you. You email me back saying "no,no, it's $4500" but I say, no the bill said $45.00 so that's all I'm paying, maybe you would feel differently about sticking it to the man, er, United.