We know that United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby is desperate to have his airline return to New York’s JFK Airport. He has said it for years. We even know that JetBlue and United are planning a partnership, and in recent months, he has said that “the ball is going to be in JetBlue’s court” when it comes to a possible merger.
So while I doubt any of this will come as a surprise, Kirby has made some more interesting comments about JetBlue and JFK this week…
In this post:
United CEO wants JFK return, compliments JetBlue
Aviation Week reports on some comments that were made by Kirby at this week’s Polaris launch event, as flagged by @xJonNYC. As you’d expect, he was asked a lot of questions about JFK, JetBlue, etc. While he said that he’s not prepared to say “yet what is happening” with a JetBlue alliance, he reportedly made a few other interesting comments.
Regarding JFK, he said the same thing he has said all along, which is how important JFK is to the airline:
“JFK is important to us. One way or another, we need to be back in JFK. I wish United had not pulled out of JFK back in the day.”
He also had nice things about say about JetBlue’s culture, suggesting that it’s similar to United’s:
“I have a lot of respect for JetBlue, because they have the same core customer DNA that we have. We want lifelong customers who believe in United, who love the brand. JetBlue comes from a similar culture and DNA.”
He even mentioned how JetBlue’s introduction of live TV was a “turning point” in his career, as prior to that, he thought of air travel as a commodity product:
“I originally thought that’s a gimmick. And then I went and flew it, and I watched people, that was a transformational moment for me. They got it right. I was wrong. They got it right. Part of my journey to being the airline CEO really started with watching how successful JetBlue was for customers.“
As a reminder, United first pulled out of JFK in 2015. At the time, the airline consolidated operations at Newark, following the merger with Continental. Then the airline briefly returned to JFK in 2021, but it pulled out in 2022, as it couldn’t get enough slots to make the service work.
Kirby has thought all along that leaving JFK in the first place was a mistake. Obviously Kirby wants United to overtake Delta, and he knows that involves United having a dominant position in New York. For him, JFK is the missing puzzle piece.
What do we make of Kirby’s JetBlue & JFK comments?
Kirby is such an interesting guy, because he’s both very bright, and he doesn’t hold back in sharing what he’s thinking (or saying what he thinks he has to say). Like, given the extent to which there are rumors about JetBlue and United, he really only keeps adding fuel to the fire when it comes to speculation as to how close things could get.
The way Kirby is talking about JetBlue is certainly in line with what you’d expect from a company looking to make an acquisition, and not just an airline with which you plan to have a mild loyalty collaboration.
We have reason to believe that a United and JetBlue arrangement would come in (up to) three phases. The first phase would include a loyalty partnership, the second phase would involve a strategic partnership that would allow United to return to JFK, and the third phase would involve a full acquisition. Of course it’s possible it doesn’t get that far, but clearly that’s the long term vision.
But here’s the struggle I have with United’s return to JFK, without a full-on acquisition. We know that United wants 20 daily slot pairs at JFK, and we know exactly what United wants to use those for — to launch premium transcontinental flights, to Los Angeles and San Francisco.
The partnership needs to make sense for JetBlue, and JetBlue simply allowing United to compete in one of its most lucrative markets would make no sense. It would be terrible for JetBlue, actually. Also keep in mind that JetBlue rejected a partnership with American to pursue this partnership with United.
So there has to be more to this, and one certainly wonders how this will all evolve. Of course it’s worth pointing out that Kirby has had nothing but good things to say about the Trump administration. Everyone can make of that what they will, but rarely have we see an airline CEO be so complimentary of any administration.
Bottom line
United CEO Scott Kirby has made more interesting comments about JFK and JetBlue. He has emphasized that United will return to JFK, one way or another, and that he very much respects JetBlue’s DNA and culture. He even states that JetBlue introducing live TV a long time ago changed his impression of what’s important in the industry.
I don’t think any of these comments are surprising, as such. The big question is just when the next shoe will drop, and when we learn the details of what’s next.
What do you make of Kirby’s JFK & JetBlue comments?
How would UA operate premium transcons without a Polaris Lounge at JFK? With AA and DL offering their best lounges at JFK, UA would need to figure out its lounge offering to demand a competitive price for the seats in the front of the plane.
I don’t see a merger being allowed it definitely creates an overlap and UA already has bases in most JetBlue bases. AA would find another reason to sue United
I wouldn't be surprised to see Southwest throw a grenade into this whole thing (similarly to how JetBlue did for Spirit/Frontier).
1. It allows them to become a force in New York City, where they currently have a token presence and absolutely no market power.
2. It also allows them to begin their international partnerships out of the largest foreign gateway in the country, rather than trying it out of Baltimore, which seems...
I wouldn't be surprised to see Southwest throw a grenade into this whole thing (similarly to how JetBlue did for Spirit/Frontier).
1. It allows them to become a force in New York City, where they currently have a token presence and absolutely no market power.
2. It also allows them to begin their international partnerships out of the largest foreign gateway in the country, rather than trying it out of Baltimore, which seems to be the current plan.
3. It finally frees them from Boeing 737 sole dependence, which is the one thing Elliot Management hasn't changed, but that could still be considered a liability of legacy-Southwest.
I dont see the govt allowing B6 to merge with AA, UA DL, or WN. They each hold too much market share. An AS merger would be logical and would bulk it up to compete with the big 4 domestically. AS also has a great management team that could better utilize B6's assets.
If (when) UA take on JetBlue and goes back to JFK, there were be a price both NEW and JFK and BOS and AA plus some LCC will win slots. I can see AA establishing JFK as a destination and expand European/SA traffic with the XLR and move even with DL in BOS. UA doesn't do mergers well (BTW, AA's merger was NOT run by Kirby) so it will be a mess for some time...
If (when) UA take on JetBlue and goes back to JFK, there were be a price both NEW and JFK and BOS and AA plus some LCC will win slots. I can see AA establishing JFK as a destination and expand European/SA traffic with the XLR and move even with DL in BOS. UA doesn't do mergers well (BTW, AA's merger was NOT run by Kirby) so it will be a mess for some time and that will give both DL and AA an advantage. I used to love UA and then they fell out of favor and TWA/NWA/DL and now AA are my go tos but would like to see 3 strong US carriers that remember the customer IS why they fly. This will be interesting to watch.
It feels like Kirby is trying to lure B6 into their white van with a cute little puppy; the 'flattery will get you everything' strategy. UA knows they are not going to be able to control or have dominant positions at JFK and EWR. But they may be able to convince B6 to sell them a healthy share of slots with the promise of a tight UA relationship. B6 might think it's worth it.
Also,...
It feels like Kirby is trying to lure B6 into their white van with a cute little puppy; the 'flattery will get you everything' strategy. UA knows they are not going to be able to control or have dominant positions at JFK and EWR. But they may be able to convince B6 to sell them a healthy share of slots with the promise of a tight UA relationship. B6 might think it's worth it.
Also, why couldn’t AA and UA just split up B6? AA takes a big piece of JFK, UA grabs some of that, plus BOS and FLL. Wouldn't that be more strategic?
Think about what you're advocating.
The active break up of peoples livelihoods. Thousands of mechanics, pilots, FAs, and support people who would be out of jobs just in the name of market share.
Thats very cruel, DL. But not surprised considering your screename.
JetBlue has backed itself into a corner. Its sole assets are the slots and volume at JFK and BOS. Great if you're heading to or from the Northeast. However, their capacity to provide connections is god awful. This hamstrings their expensive Euro footprint for they can only support those in the Northeast, Florida or Puerto Rico for TATL. The rest of the nation out of luck or is stuck making a connection thru Reykjavík for...
JetBlue has backed itself into a corner. Its sole assets are the slots and volume at JFK and BOS. Great if you're heading to or from the Northeast. However, their capacity to provide connections is god awful. This hamstrings their expensive Euro footprint for they can only support those in the Northeast, Florida or Puerto Rico for TATL. The rest of the nation out of luck or is stuck making a connection thru Reykjavík for the return leg. Their true name is NEW YORK AIRLINES.
Eventually, one of the Big Four will make a bid. You'll have the Black Knight, White Knight, and Stalking Horse. I give it mid 2026 for the fireworks to begin.
B6 backed themselves into a corner?
DOJ backed them into a corner.
Um, no. The DOJ did its job.
It's not the DOJ's fault that in a quarter century of operations, a carrier boxed itself into having no desirable assets other than 2 airports in the same region of the country.
If Kirby likes live TV so much why are new United aircraft lacking DirecTV or an alternative provider?
With the introduction of free Starlink wifi on aircraft, they won't need a live TV provider. You can just stream things directly on your device.
Kirby sees the capacity restrictions to EWR coming us trying to save UA’s position in NYC
Ben is right. B6 isn’t going to sell slots for UA to operate on B6’ best routes
The DoJ is not going to allow UA to acquire a lower fare competitor
Kirby gave DL one quarter of LGA slots while at US and he might boost AA B6 and DL’s NYC hubs now
B6 stopped being "lower fare" a very long time ago.
For that reason and others it seems entirely possible this deal could get done.
@Tim Dunn,
Capacity restrictions are only for a few additional weeks at EWR.
B6 is absolutely going to give up something at JFK to UA in exchange for a nice cash infusion.
But nice try
You might want to read what the DOT said which is the end of the IATA summer season for now
@Tim
The re-paving will be done in a few weeks and therefore the parallel runways will be operational.
Let's see what happens when it does. But I'm guessing you're going to be backpedaling.
While JetBlue was founded on a culture of appreciating the passenger, specifically the coach passenger, it's proven to be a difficult business strategy to make money in the long term. At least not at the current scale. I think a proposed UA/Jet Blue acquisition is soon coming. Now whether it gets regulatory approval???
United did not pull out of JFK until the end of october, 2015. It kept flying there for years after the merger with Continental.
@Jason And then, after they pulled out, they were back around 2018 or 2019 again, with a couple of flights a day on their worst planes (well, not their very worst, those are their 8-across-in-business, no IFE in econ 777’s that were formerly relegated to Hawaii but they now use for a lot of summer transcon, providing the least competitive offering available) out of the blight that is JFK T7, before pulling out again. I...
@Jason And then, after they pulled out, they were back around 2018 or 2019 again, with a couple of flights a day on their worst planes (well, not their very worst, those are their 8-across-in-business, no IFE in econ 777’s that were formerly relegated to Hawaii but they now use for a lot of summer transcon, providing the least competitive offering available) out of the blight that is JFK T7, before pulling out again. I liked when they initially flew 767’s from there though; that’s my favorite plane.
No, they came back in 2021 during Covid. They were not back at JFK in 2018/2019. Back in 2021-2022. But yes, in 2021 they started with 767 of some sort then downgraded to 757 before losing the slots again.
Pretty much the rest of the star alliance and Jetblue will be occupying the new T6 at JFK... whenever that opens. So there are some synergies and more connectivity for Jetblue perhaps than AA/oneworld offers at T8. I presume United would like to be able to use Jetblue's east coast network to connect to United transcon flights from JFK / star alliance flights. But I think this is going to be incredibly challenging to pull...
Pretty much the rest of the star alliance and Jetblue will be occupying the new T6 at JFK... whenever that opens. So there are some synergies and more connectivity for Jetblue perhaps than AA/oneworld offers at T8. I presume United would like to be able to use Jetblue's east coast network to connect to United transcon flights from JFK / star alliance flights. But I think this is going to be incredibly challenging to pull off in a profitable way. Jetblue's network just really isn't designed for connections the way United/Delta/American is, it's designed to connect Florida/Caribbean to NY/Northeast. Meanwhile all of those United flights will be landing at EWR, and getting from EWR to JFK is... not fun?
This one really feels like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole because the square peg is the only peg that's left. Meanwhile the round hole is profitable but has plenty of problems of its own, but now I've extended this metaphor way too far.
I dont understand why UA really wants to go back to JFK. It already has EWR flights to LAX and SFO, which serve NYC. Arent those sufficient? Do travelers really prefer JFK to EWR that much?
Whenever airlines launch service to US, it's often NYC and it's inevitably JFK. JFK has and will always be the premier NYC airport.
There's a reason why all of UA's JV partners run JFK flights, sometimes even in favor of EWT flights. ANA actually interlines with JetBlue to feed its JFK flights.
If you live in Brooklyn or Queens, or anywhere on Long Island, schlepping to JFK far beats schlepping to EWR. That’s a huge, dense population mass—millions.
Newark has international flights of course. All of the international carriers are currently in Terminal B which is absolutely terrible. Combined with the fact that New Jersey is not in New York, JFK is simply the preferable airport. UA pulling out of JFK was a big mistake. At least they acknowledge it.
I learnt something today - New Jersey is not in New York! ;-
…. and I thought that you folks were discussing the real Jersey, you know, one of the only parts of Great Britain where Hitler managed to station some troops … :-)
Add in most of Westchester and southern CT as well - JFK is far more convenient. I only book EWR when I absolutely have to or if I know I'll be commuting there from the city.
@Andy I am a United flyer primarily, and live in downtown Manhattan, so I llle EWR. It’s fast to get to, a smaller and more manageable airport, with curbside rideshare pickup, etc.
But Manhattanites who live uptown or on the east side often prefer JFK because it’s perceived as closer to them, and I know some Manhattanites who simply won’t go to EWR because, well, it’s in New Jersey.
And, with the exception of the...
@Andy I am a United flyer primarily, and live in downtown Manhattan, so I llle EWR. It’s fast to get to, a smaller and more manageable airport, with curbside rideshare pickup, etc.
But Manhattanites who live uptown or on the east side often prefer JFK because it’s perceived as closer to them, and I know some Manhattanites who simply won’t go to EWR because, well, it’s in New Jersey.
And, with the exception of the new Terminal A, it’s kind of an ugly 60’s poured concrete dump, lacking in amenities, though United has made Terminal C nice enough once you’re inside. Also, there are no premium credit card lounges in the whole airport, just overcrowded airline lounges. The inter terminal shuttle is ancient and terrible, unlike JFK airtrain (though at least there is an airside transfer bus, unlike JFK) and service to the city by rail is also inferior to JFK. If you prefer a yellow taxi to rideshare, that’s also worse because it’s a New Jersey taxi so it’s bridge/tunnel related surcharges galore and drivers who don’t know the city. And, as noted by others here, EWR sucks to get to from Brooklyn, Queens, or Long Island. Also, a lot of domestic United flights out of EWR are served out of LGA by competitors, and that’s the closest of the three for someone in Manhattan.
So, to answer your question, yes, I like it (well, maybe not this summer), but EWR is perceived as second tier, and far (even though it really isn’t for many). Some travelers really do prefer JFK that much more.
@Peter Yeah, getting from JFK to EWR is not fun. I’ve done it once in the other direction, when some emergency happened and the whole airport shut down, so had to find another way of getting where I was going, and it was on Delta out of JFK. Rideshare showed blood red traffic, over two hours. Ended up taking NJ airport monorail to NJ Transit rail to Long Island Rail Road to JFK monorail. That was kind of fun, if only for adventure and because I felt clever knowing to do it, but not something I’d recommend.
Is there another metro area that is co-served by two distant airports which allow transcon flying?
London
Ivan X, 100%. If you live in this area, you already know which airport you are going to. If you are east of the Hudson River, you go to JFK. West, you go to EWR. There are some edge cases, but that's typically the determining factor. For most of northern NJ'ers to go to JFK, you have to go through Manhattan in some way, which just adds cost, time, and maybe a LOT more time....
Ivan X, 100%. If you live in this area, you already know which airport you are going to. If you are east of the Hudson River, you go to JFK. West, you go to EWR. There are some edge cases, but that's typically the determining factor. For most of northern NJ'ers to go to JFK, you have to go through Manhattan in some way, which just adds cost, time, and maybe a LOT more time. And if you are in Queens or Long Island, you have to pass JFK on the way to EWR. Pricing is not significantly different among them, so you have already made the choice.
Certain parts of Manhattan will be equidistant, but many Manhattanites are of the feeling that EWR might as well be in a different country. They will hate JFK too, but at least it's part of NYC.
A new EWR Terminal B is in the works, but that's 5+ years at least away. You'll be able to attract more of the big international airlines once that is open with regular service. But that just makes the case for UA at JFK even more. Geography will play the deciding factor.
This may not make sense unless you've lived in the area, but there are millions of people in the area who will typically only look at EWR flights or JFK/LGA flights respectively because depending on where you live, it can take 20 minutes to get to one and 1.5 hours (with always-likely traffic) to get to the other.
As someone who has lived in both Lower Manhattan and the East Side as well as in Nassau County, blake and Ivan X are 100% correct.
EWR and JFK have completely separate catchment areas for which the only overlap is Lower Manhattan due to mass transit connections at World Trade Center and Penn Station allowing you to go to either airport in roughly similar amounts of time.
It is not practical by either mass transit...
As someone who has lived in both Lower Manhattan and the East Side as well as in Nassau County, blake and Ivan X are 100% correct.
EWR and JFK have completely separate catchment areas for which the only overlap is Lower Manhattan due to mass transit connections at World Trade Center and Penn Station allowing you to go to either airport in roughly similar amounts of time.
It is not practical by either mass transit or car to go to the "other" airport from anywhere else in the region and I can't remember the last time United (EWR) or Delta (JFK) or possibly even JetBlue (also JFK) had appreciably different fares for the same destination anyway.
That said, I do think UA may struggle with the costs of running significant operations out of both JFK and EWR if that ends up happening.
When UA ditched JFK I ditched UA. Flew into EWR a couple of times didn't like it. Been flying AA flagship or B6 mint ever since. I loved the PS UA product as it was my first introduction to Premium transcon decades ago and was so sad when they killed it.
"Do travelers really prefer JFK to EWR that much?"
I mean... just look at the mess that EWR is right now...
I think throughout the article you might have meant to say “compliment” and not “complement”.
@ exzee -- Oy, that's embarrassing. Fixed, thank you, not sure what I was thinking.
You stole my thunder exzee …. :-)
Notwithstanding, thank you Ben, for yet another wonderful lesson as part of today’s school day.