Southwest Airlines can’t seem to stay out of the news when it comes to concerning incidents lately, from a scary go around in Hawaii, to a dangerously low approach in Oklahoma City, to an inflight Dutch roll. Well, we can now add yet another incident to the list, as flagged by @xJonNYC.
In this post:
Southwest 737 uses closed runway in Portland, Maine
This incident happened on Tuesday, June 25, 2024, and involves Southwest flight WN4805, scheduled to operate at 5:40AM from Portland, Maine (PWM), to Baltimore, Maryland (BWI). The flight was operated by a 19-year-old Boeing 737-700 with the registration code N7861J.
The air traffic control tower at the airport doesn’t open until 5:45AM. However, planes can still take off before then, just by stating their intentions on the CTAF (Common Traffic Advisory Frequency). So pilots are supposed to report that they’re taxiing, entering the runway, etc., so that other pilots can plan accordingly.
There are two major issues with this incident. First of all, the Southwest jet reportedly wasn’t on the CTAF when it departed, so it wasn’t communicating with other aircraft at the airport. This is of course a major safety issue. It’s not clear if the pilots were just on the wrong frequency, if they had issues with their radios, or what.
But here’s the much bigger issue. The jet took off at 5:42AM from runway 29, even though the runway was closed at the time, and is believed to have even had a ground services vehicle on it at the time.
Prior to flying, pilots are supposed to review the NOTAMs (Notice to Airmen, or Notice to Air Mission) for an airport, and the NOTAMs for the airport made it clear that that runway 11/29 was closed until 5:45AM, except for taxiing and crossing the runway.
Some might not think that it’s a big deal to take off from a closed runway just a few minutes early, but precision matters. And in this case it also mattered because there was reportedly a vehicle on the runway at the time.
@AirlineFlyer shares some of the communications that later happened on the air traffic control frequency. An operations vehicle that was reportedly on the runway at the time contacted tower (since it was around the opening time), and stated the following:
“Did you ever get a hold of that Southwest plane once he’s airborne or is he still kind of MIA in that regard?”
The air traffic controller responded with the following:
“We never talked to the aircraft, we’re technically not open there until 0545.”
Then the operations vehicle responded with something unintelligible, to which the air traffic controller responded with the following:
“I’m not either, considering you were on the runway and had to exit, and he wasn’t even on CTAF.”
What a confusing, reckless incident
As of now, there are more questions than answers. What we do know with certainty is that the plane took off on a closed runway, and the pilots weren’t following NOTAMs. That’s a big no-no. Then the pilots also didn’t communicate on the frequency, which is yet another major problem.
It’s also believed that a vehicle was on the runway around the same time the jet took off, given that the runway was supposed to be closed. However, we don’t know how close of a call that was, as it sounds like the vehicle may have exited the runway when it saw the 737 preparing to depart.
Taking off on a closed runway, all while not being on the correct frequency, is simply reckless. Obviously mistakes happen, but the rate of incidents we’ve seen lately at Southwest raises some questions as to what’s going on.
It’s one thing if the pilots had “just” ignored the NOTAM, or if they had “just” not communicated on the common frequency. But to take off on a closed runway while not communicating with others at the airport? That’s a big problem…
I’m sure this will be investigated by the FAA, and I’m curious to see what comes of it.
Bottom line
A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 took off from a closed runway in Portland, Maine, while not even communicating on the traffic frequency. The plane took off a few minutes before the tower opened for the morning, which there’s nothing wrong with. The issue is the lack of communication from pilots, plus their sloppiness with not reviewing the NOTAMs prior to departing.
For the increased scrutiny we’ve seen at the FAA regarding United Airlines, it seems like maybe Southwest Airlines needs a little more oversight as well…
What do you make of this Southwest Boeing 737 incident in Portland, Maine?
Has a somewhat similar situation happen to me at MSY.
It appears the Southwest jet taxied on to a closed taxiway. We came to a sudden stop, then did a 180 turnaround. Out the window, I could see a flashing X at the far end of the closed taxiway that connected to the main runway. The flight deck must of been irritated, for we made very quick time to the alter taxiway and rolled...
Has a somewhat similar situation happen to me at MSY.
It appears the Southwest jet taxied on to a closed taxiway. We came to a sudden stop, then did a 180 turnaround. Out the window, I could see a flashing X at the far end of the closed taxiway that connected to the main runway. The flight deck must of been irritated, for we made very quick time to the alter taxiway and rolled on to the runway without a moment of hesitation with the engine gunned to full throttle as we made the turn to align for takeoff.
I see that there are five departures between 0530 and 0545 from PWM and no arrivals. So why doesn't ATC start operating just a little bit earlier, rather than at 0545?
departing an airport w/o a tower is not a difficult procedure for an experienced pilot that is paying attention.
Starting earlier just means the tower then has to close earlier. The US is short of controllers. Having more at busy airports is far more important than babysitting pilots
I've been close to SW (it's about two miles to the West here in Dallas) since it started in the early 70's. Things like this absolutely didn't happen. They'd had no fatalities till the plane skidding off the runway in Chicago. Gary Kelly worked with Herb, Colleen, knew how to run the airline, and did, for almost two decades. It's quickly gone to Hell after Bob Jordan took over from him Feb '22. Gary is...
I've been close to SW (it's about two miles to the West here in Dallas) since it started in the early 70's. Things like this absolutely didn't happen. They'd had no fatalities till the plane skidding off the runway in Chicago. Gary Kelly worked with Herb, Colleen, knew how to run the airline, and did, for almost two decades. It's quickly gone to Hell after Bob Jordan took over from him Feb '22. Gary is still upstairs, I'm wondering why he hasn't fired Jordan and moved back in. Herb would have done it during the Holiday meltdown of '22.
Move the departure time from 5:40 to 5:45 when the tower is open. This is a no-brainer. That way you have the added safety of a controller on duty in case you have an accident or problem.
I try to give airlines the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things that dont make sense because I dont run an airline - I just fly on them and read blogs - but scratching my head wondering why no one at SW thought waiting 5 more minutes for the Tower to open was not a good idea?
I know airlines run on tight schedules with crews, gates, etc - but 5 minutes?
Can we get the experience of all these pilots? Are they new with limited experience? Would help to understand why there are such issues.
Pilots: "We need 2 pilots in the cockpit for safety, there's no way a machine could be more safe than us"
Also pilots: "Yeah lets just not use the correct radio frequency, not check which runways are open and just YOLO it..."
Getting pilots out of cockpits seems like the safer choice nowadays...
Can't say enough of that and all I get is hate from stupid humans.
Remove humans from the cockpit and ATC. It's safer that way.
You mess up so often, there is an official term for this. Its called "human" error.
DEI complaints...? Well, I'd guess the Captain - in - Command was NOT a DEI hire....seeing as he's been there probably more than 5 years..??? Where was HE/SHE/IT while this decision was being made....? And how much specific training are these pilots getting when they are doing 'irregular' (but still legal) operations like this one?
The correct procedure is known by every pilot who has a private pilots license . In this case there’s a short window where the jet would have announced its intentions on CTAF before taxiing, and then again just b4 takeoff. As soon as the aircraft is following the departure procedure in its clearance, the pilots would be talking to either a departure controller or ARTCC controller.
Annnnnd on cue, the racists bring up DEI. Even if that were the issue, it wouldn’t explain incidents in the more distant past. DEI, CRT…racist alphabet soup, as they can’t really comprehend much of anything else. Probably a real aviation expert as well.
If this is DEI in our world, then somebody needs to realize that many people are prone to die from inept pilots. This isn't how to run an airport that is already a high-stress level job. It seems that even though these people are present on their jobs, there is no "real" presence that puts confidence in any of us... SMH
We need to establish the Southwest Airlines Center for Pilots who Can't Pilot Good and Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too
3 minutes early? it is possible they checked their watch and it was running 3 minutes faster than the actual local time. Now did the pilot check the FMS to get the GMT time and do the math to local time or did they just check their watch? Nobody will know that real answer because by the time they arrive at their destination the CVR has recorded over the takeoff audio. Not being on the...
3 minutes early? it is possible they checked their watch and it was running 3 minutes faster than the actual local time. Now did the pilot check the FMS to get the GMT time and do the math to local time or did they just check their watch? Nobody will know that real answer because by the time they arrive at their destination the CVR has recorded over the takeoff audio. Not being on the CTAF for the departure, I will give you that one, that was a mistake. That airport should cleared that runway 30 minutes prior to the "opening" time to have a safety margin. Doing it at the last minute and having the tower open after the runway is "cleared" for operaton is a recipe for disaster. How exactly is the pilot supposed to know the runway is operational other than checking their watch? Was the ops vehicile going to make an announcement on the CTAF that the runway was operational? That isn't a requirement either. I'm not giving the pilot a pass or Southwest for that matter, but I think we have to consider all of the possibilities.
Any other US airports that have commercial passenger jets the size of a 737 which permit this?
There are, SJC the tower is closed from 2330-0600. I sure there are others as well. As long as procedures are followed and CTAF is used should not be a problem.
PSE (Ponce, PR) doesn’t have a manned control tower last I checked.
There are probably a dozen airports that have commercial airline operations without tower ATC services. That is just the airports serving 737 or larger. The regional carriers probably serve a couple dozen or more without service at the time of the flight.
Even others, some of the major cities, don't have 24 hour ATC service and flights can be delayed and arrive with no service. A couple airports have curfews that don't allow runway...
There are probably a dozen airports that have commercial airline operations without tower ATC services. That is just the airports serving 737 or larger. The regional carriers probably serve a couple dozen or more without service at the time of the flight.
Even others, some of the major cities, don't have 24 hour ATC service and flights can be delayed and arrive with no service. A couple airports have curfews that don't allow runway activity during prohibited hours. Aircraft have to divert or wait.
Why is Boeing even part of this headline?? This should simply say Southwest jet takes off from a closed runway. The type of plane did not cause this BAD decision. Lack of training and poor hiring practice should be under review with so many close calls and dangerous decisions being made at Southwest.
It's not just the business plan at Southwest that is broken. There are way too many safety related issues going on.
It was United's time in the ringer and the FAA acted. Seems like it more than time for the FAA to take a much closer look at WN.
"Hey guys, just shout over the radio if you want to use a runway before anything is open. I'm sure it'll be fine...." FAA needs an uppercut for allowing this situation to happen anywhere.
100% my thought too! How in 2024 do we just allow the honor system for air traffic control when hundreds of lives are at risk, especially at an hour when people are groggy and much more prone to mistakes.
It’s not super common in the US, but there are airports with commercial service and no ATC at all. Yampa Valley airport in CO (HDN), Quincy Airport in IL (UIN), and others. For smaller airports, a delayed flight may also arrive after the ATC tower has shut down for the night.
Communicating on CTAF is something pilots are very familiar with from their training as most general aviation airports do not have towers. Even some...
It’s not super common in the US, but there are airports with commercial service and no ATC at all. Yampa Valley airport in CO (HDN), Quincy Airport in IL (UIN), and others. For smaller airports, a delayed flight may also arrive after the ATC tower has shut down for the night.
Communicating on CTAF is something pilots are very familiar with from their training as most general aviation airports do not have towers. Even some “large” airports like San Jose (SJC) don’t have ATC at certain hours.
The pilot was Joe and copilot was Donald.
Can’t wait to see the clickbait headlines implying Boeing is at fault
Why do many US airlines operate flights this early in the morning? Which crew can be fully alert when they have to unnaturally rise at 3 am???
No wonder the tower was closed.
Crazy.
If you think that's bad, you should see the horrible flight times that are common in the Middle East, Africa and south Asia. Departures at 1 or 2 am to arrive somewhere at 4:30 or 5 am. That is insane and it's common over there. Several crashes have involved such flights that were airborne at ungodly hours.
It can nice to get somewhere and have the entire day to do something at your destination
Yep. Early morning flights are great. Your day isn’t as disrupted by transit time.
I agree. Sun has not risen yet.
The good book says, It is vain for you to rise up early or stay up late.
You think that's early!!?? There are many flights between Germany and the Canary Islands which depart between 0330 and 0400hrs.