In late 2027, Qantas will launch the world’s longest nonstop flight, from Sydney (SYD) to London (LHR), using specially configured Airbus A350-1000ULRs, in what’s referred to as “Project Sunrise.” With a flight time of well over 20 hours, these flights will be an absolute marathon, especially for those in economy.
Fortunately the airline has been promising especially generous seat pitch in economy, though guess what? Well, the airline has now backtracked, and if you want more legroom, you’ll probably have to pay for it. Qantas management’s ability to overpromise and underdeliver never ceases to amaze me, and I don’t think the airline gets enough criticism for it.
In this post:
Qantas Airbus A350ULRs will have less seat pitch than promised
Since 2022, Qantas has been hyping the passenger experience on its new Airbus A350-1000ULRs, promising how all passengers will “experience a new standard of comfort” on these planes. As part of that, the company has explicitly been promising 33″ of pitch in economy, with no strings attached. For example, here’s a direct quote from former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce:
“Economy travellers will have an OLED 13-inch TV screen, foot net and convenient storage space within arms’ reach to store glasses and personal items. The team has spent extensive time testing ergonomics, lumbar support and breathability of the seat fabrics in the new Economy seat which will have 33 inches of legroom.”
Typically on wide body aircraft, 31″ of pitch is the standard, so a couple of extra inches can make a difference. But really, it makes sense to offer a little more space, given the absolutely wild lengths of these flights, plus that they’ll come at a premium in terms of pricing. As it turns out, the airline now has a new strategy, and is now just promising that more than 70% of economy seats will have 33″ or more of pitch.
As reported by Executive Traveller, what’s going on here is that rather than offering everyone in economy 33″ of pitch, the airline will instead have sections with 32″ of pitch, 33″ of pitch, and 34″ of pitch. Qantas will offer an “economy plus” cabin, with 34″ of pitch, but that’s only made possible by reducing seat pitch by one inch in the back of the cabin, so that will have 32″ of pitch. Meanwhile the center of the economy cabin will have 33″ of pitch.
Qantas is great at hyping, bad at delivering
Qantas is a funny airline, because I know a lot of Australians have fond feelings about the company, given that it’s the national carrier (though there’s no denying the carrier’s image has taken a toll in recent years).
I know some people think I dislike Qantas, or something, but that’s not at all the case. I find most Qantas employees to be absolutely lovely, and I think the airline has great lounges. My issues with the airline is that I think the onboard product is just whatever (aside from the friendly crews), and I don’t love all the ways the airline has tried to screw its workforce over the years.
But as someone who has been covering the industry for close to two decades, what stands out to me most about Qantas is the never ending hype. I get it, it’s smart for airlines to try to generate good publicity from what they have planned, because good marketing can shift loyalty and passenger perception.
But I just can’t think of another airline that so consistently overhypes what it’s going to do. We’re talking announcing things so many years in advance, and also, often not actually following through on promises.
This is of course the perfect example of that. The airline promised 33″ of pitch for everyone in economy, but has now backtracked on that. Similarly, earlier I wrote about how the airline promised a Qantas First Lounge Heathrow, claiming it would have amazing apron views, and direct boarding from the lounge. As it turns out, the airline had never actually secured a space, so that was all just fantasy.
My goal isn’t to be overly critical here, but instead, to be balanced. All too often, media gives an airline credit for the announcements they make, but then don’t call them out when they don’t deliver on those promises. So they get the good publicity from taking some “liberties,” but not the bad publicity associated with making baseless announcements. So I at least try to be balanced here, and call things as I see them.
Bottom line
Qantas is getting closer to launching its Project Sunrise flights, between Sydney and London, using Airbus A350-1000ULRs. The airline has been promising a new level of comfort, including 33″ of pitch in economy.
Unfortunately the airline has now backtracked on those plans. It wants to introduce an extra legroom economy section, but rather than taking out a row of seats, the airline is instead simply reducing seat pitch in the back of economy, which will now see 32″ of pitch.
While that’s still a respectable amount of pitch compared to other planes, I wouldn’t want to be stuck in one of those seats for 20+ hours straight. And it’s also sad how the airline spent years hyping all of this extra space, only to then go back on that promise.
What do you make of Qantas’ changes to its A350 seat pitch?
So very true, and good on you for writing the truth. Its been going on for years, QF are always trying to overhype and over sell something that is not really there.....as a regular flyer between Asia and Australia, and a Platinum QF flyer, we have seen this going on for years. Joyce was a joke and then we will look around the world for a new CEO.....oh let's take his number two!!!!
Frequent flyer here. US citizen and Australian permanent resident with homes in both locations and a job that involves a global customer base. Perhaps it's misfortune, but my bad flight experiences are concentrated with Qantas. Also, Qantas routinely charges a premium on the routes I fly in comparison to its competition. I fly that airline as little as possible.
Domestic inside Australia, I highly prefer Virgin Australia. Transcontinental, I'm flying star alliance mostly because their...
Frequent flyer here. US citizen and Australian permanent resident with homes in both locations and a job that involves a global customer base. Perhaps it's misfortune, but my bad flight experiences are concentrated with Qantas. Also, Qantas routinely charges a premium on the routes I fly in comparison to its competition. I fly that airline as little as possible.
Domestic inside Australia, I highly prefer Virgin Australia. Transcontinental, I'm flying star alliance mostly because their footprint is strong in Asia Pacific, in particular United which has strong international coverage.
Interesting! I think it's refreshing to be critical, and as someone who has been involved in service delivery, I think it is fair. Some publications I'm suspicious about because they are not critical, and therefore wonder if the article is genuine!
Just took SYD-AKL QF147 yesterday in 10d. 30 inch pitch, legs already touching back of seat when I sat down. I’ve got qantas gold (oneworld sapphire). Previously could allocate extra legroom seat at t72. Now anyone even without status can just pay for the extra legroom seat. So giving away qantas gold now. Qantas is run by an accountant who sits and does spreadsheets all day. I would rather risk flying on the Middle East...
Just took SYD-AKL QF147 yesterday in 10d. 30 inch pitch, legs already touching back of seat when I sat down. I’ve got qantas gold (oneworld sapphire). Previously could allocate extra legroom seat at t72. Now anyone even without status can just pay for the extra legroom seat. So giving away qantas gold now. Qantas is run by an accountant who sits and does spreadsheets all day. I would rather risk flying on the Middle East airlines and stop in a nice airport than fly qantas in economy on that 20 hour flight. Agreed Ben, it’s all smoke and mirrors with this crowd. Talk is cheap with them.
Say it with me:
“Aussie boys are on a bender…”
“Donal…”
Typical Qantas
I don't understand why the bother with economy on these flights, the whole business model of these Sunrise flights is built on the idea that there are premium cabin passengers who will pay a premium to avoid the stop in the ME/Asia for flights to LHR or LAX for flights to NYC. If someone is flying from SYD to LHR or JFK in economy, its because they lack the funds for J/F or their company...
I don't understand why the bother with economy on these flights, the whole business model of these Sunrise flights is built on the idea that there are premium cabin passengers who will pay a premium to avoid the stop in the ME/Asia for flights to LHR or LAX for flights to NYC. If someone is flying from SYD to LHR or JFK in economy, its because they lack the funds for J/F or their company travel policy doesn't allow them to avoid the hellscape that is a flight in Y of that duration - in either case these customers are those that look for the cheapest option. Also frankly, while I've thankfully never had to take a flight of that duration in Y if I did the idea of a stopover in SIN/DOH/DXB on the way to London or LAX to JFK to walk around and get off the plane for a bit would seem like a positive, so not sure why they think people will pay more to sit in Y (even if it was 33 or 34" its still Y and not a bed for 20 hours!). Seems the SQ model on their ULH EWR-SIN flight where its J and PE only makes more sense
This is Alan Joyce's legacy. The only 'good' thing to emerge from this is that finally flyers/avgeeks from OUTSIDE Australia are learning what a wreck he left behind. Locals have known this from at least 2010, when his illegal shortcuts and cutbacks kicked in, and which remained his tenure's hallmark until 2023. The bad news is, these Joyce-configured and highly-priced 'legacy' jets will be around for decades. Little wonder that Singapore Airlines and Emirates are...
This is Alan Joyce's legacy. The only 'good' thing to emerge from this is that finally flyers/avgeeks from OUTSIDE Australia are learning what a wreck he left behind. Locals have known this from at least 2010, when his illegal shortcuts and cutbacks kicked in, and which remained his tenure's hallmark until 2023. The bad news is, these Joyce-configured and highly-priced 'legacy' jets will be around for decades. Little wonder that Singapore Airlines and Emirates are considered Australia's unofficial national carriers by the majority of pax, regardless of cabin class.
When the ESA Invictus project takes off, a 30”-33” seat pitch will be masses of room on a 3.5hr flight between LHR and SYD.
Ah, yes, Europe’s very own ‘Boom’ pipe dream… expected 2031, if they can get an engine… *gulp*
Well said. Qantas’s superpower is PR and hype. “Sure the inflight experience is a bit crap today… but in X years when we get the new super dooper planes…”
Qantas has to revolutionize travel in economy between Heathrow and Sydney.
1. They're charging top dollars
2. Emirates flies three times between Sydney and DXB per day and 6 times between Heathrow and DXB per day. And no one can deny Emirates economy product.
3. Singapore airlines also offers premium economy product.
Qantas has some strange logic. If I buy F (they call it business) on a narrowbody it is crazy more expensive than coach, and I can't select a seat other than the last row since I don't have status. I have an AA codeshare on a 787. I can't select the first four rows because, while I paid the same as "elites," I lack status. Qantas as sh!t.
For an ULH flight even 33in is not that generous.....most JAL long haul is 33in and ANA offer 34in on most of their long haul flights.
So for ULH 32in is not attractive.
Trusting QF is like meeting a gorgeous woman on Silom in BKK.
Spoiler. She’s (got) a dick.
Haha!
If the seats are plush and comfy and at least 18" wide this would be very bad but not actually catastrophic. Unfortunately the odds of that happening seem rather slim.
It's weird to not make this a premium-only flight like the Singapore flights to/from JFK and EWR. Nobody wants to fly economy for 20+ hours, much less at standard seat pitch.
(unless that's the section for very short people or children-only or something lol)
Qantas is, in my view, one of the worst premium airlines in the world if not the worst.
They charge premium prices but deliver a thoroughly average experience. The service is often underwhelming, the cabin crew can come across as arrogant rather than welcoming, and there seems to be an attitude that passengers should feel privileged to fly with them instead of the other way around.
What makes it worse is that Qantas continues to...
Qantas is, in my view, one of the worst premium airlines in the world if not the worst.
They charge premium prices but deliver a thoroughly average experience. The service is often underwhelming, the cabin crew can come across as arrogant rather than welcoming, and there seems to be an attitude that passengers should feel privileged to fly with them instead of the other way around.
What makes it worse is that Qantas continues to market itself as a world-class carrier while failing to consistently deliver the level of service, comfort, and customer care that many international airlines provide as standard.
The airline appears to rely heavily on its brand, history, and dominant position in Australia, because if it had to compete purely on customer experience, it would struggle.
Premium fares. Average product. Inflated reputation.
Qantas isn't a premium airline anymore. It's a legacy airline charging premium prices for a service that no longer justifies them.
Travelled all over the world, flew Qantas twice, and that was enough—never again.
Air Canada: Hold my beer.
You can literally just sub in AC (or BA for that matter) into your post
Or LH
Yup, these carriers should thank their lucky stars for the wealthy, local, rusted-on loyalty-tragics who make up the vast majority of their most profitable customers. BA in London, Lufti in FRA & MUC, Qantas in SYD & MEL, AC in Toronto & Vancouver.
They are shafting the frequent flyer elites as well at qantas. They just made it possible on transtasman flights to buy extra leg room seats with 34 inch pitch even if you have no status, meanwhile they’ve blocked qantas golds from being able to access the extra legroom seats at booking time. Effectively a devaluation of qantas gold. I guess they’ve given out too many qantas golds.
"All too often, media gives an airline credit for the announcements they make, but then don’t call them out when they don’t deliver on those promises."
Great observation (obv applies outside airline industry too...). IMO, your balanced reporting is still more than fair and generous to airlines (and other travel related industries), and I very much appreciate you being critical when it's justified. You always have solid grounds for your criticism. TBH, I'd like...
"All too often, media gives an airline credit for the announcements they make, but then don’t call them out when they don’t deliver on those promises."
Great observation (obv applies outside airline industry too...). IMO, your balanced reporting is still more than fair and generous to airlines (and other travel related industries), and I very much appreciate you being critical when it's justified. You always have solid grounds for your criticism. TBH, I'd like to see you rip into companies more often :-)
Qantas will struggle with the economy loads, economy passengers are not going to pay a premium when there are better airlines who offer cheaper flights with stopovers, I'll be sticking with Singapore, Cathay, JAL and Emirates
If I was flying economy - and therefore not particularly time sensitive and more price sensitive - I would prefer to stop off at an intermediate location like Dubai or Singapore to stretch my legs and break the journey rather than fly for 22 hours non-stop with having to step over other passengers or be stepped over every few hours. I think Project Sunrise will only work for business class and first class passengers and possibly premium economy.
Just shows that jerk ass airline executives are the norm on 6 continents.
People will have a choice. Why is that bad?
What airline gives a sh*t about economy passengers?
ANA and JAL, 34in and 33in pitch on most of their long haul Aircraft.
“But I just can’t think of another airline that so consistently overhypes what it’s going to do. We’re talking announcing things so many years in advance, and also, often not actually following through on promises.”
Deutsche Lufthansa
When it comes to ULH seat pitch, I'd wish more people would give some throwback credits to TG and it's A340-500 economy seat pitch.
Sorry, do not see it as such a bad example of overselling: they are not adding rows, just re-distributing space.
Yes, very few people will probably pay for extra 2" (unless something else is thrown in - like better food/drinks - which is unlikely) - but a nice way to keep FF elites a little happier.
They are shafting the frequent flyer elites as well at qantas. They just made it possible on transtasman flights to buy extra leg room seats with 34 inch pitch even if you have no status, meanwhile they’ve blocked qantas golds from being able to access the extra legroom seats at booking time. Effectively a devaluation of qantas gold. I guess they’ve given out too many qantas golds.
Since the EU loves regulating everything maybe they should pass a new regulation that these ultra-long haul flights must have x amount of pitch.
I do not think people have to like their national carrier. For example, most Canadians dislike Air Canada.
Since they served knowingly salad with splinters of broken glass inside in J, due to takeoff breakage, I don’t just dislike an airline that thought a 100$ voucher was reasonable compensation. No, dislike understates my views of Air Canada ever so slightly …
Air Canada is the greatest airline in the world.
LOL!!
I'm tall and fit. I don't care about legroom its the fat people in the seat next to me. Widen the seats please.
fat guy here, why should the seats be wider? maybe fix the problem instead. get rid of garbage food, promote exercise and nutrition, stop with this promotion of body positivity that tells me I should be okay with myself instead of fixing the problem, which I'm doing.
Oxempic is still a rich people hobby, the other solutions, may the force be with you.
Ben writes: “While that’s still a respectable amount of pitch compared to other planes, I wouldn’t want to be stuck in one of those seats for 20+ hours straight”.
Should I assume that you will not be taking me up on the offer to fly this route with me Ben. I cannot say that I blame you for not wanting to sit right at the back for the duration, while I sit up front …. :-)
Some people have no sense of adventure so it seems.
The first comparison I will always make is with JL's A350 since the configuration is so similar, but JL still does it better, and for shorter flights.
If QF cared, they'd remove Y altogether in the style of SQ. But they know there's no shortage of suckers willing to pay a premium for Y on QF no matter how awful it is, as has been seen with the 3-3-3 789s on the PER-LHR runs.
All airlines "take away legroom" , to keep executive salaries high with large loads of pax . Nothing new here .
This isn't about "take away legroom" to "keep executive salaries high" - that's decades old news.
This is about dishonesty manifesting itself at Australia's largest carrier. That may be "nothing new" but it is news.
It's true what they say about todays children and their lack of reading comprehension, and you're living proof.
TravelinWill ... The Title says "taking away legroom" , so there .
I can't figure what's the worst part about this:
1. Qantas is actually doing this
2. Qantas thinking people will pay more for 1" or 2" more legroom (I take it the plan is to charge for
any seat with pitch greater than 32"
3. People will actually pay for the 1" or 2" more legroom.
Even before this came out, I always wondered why Qantas was given credit for giving...
I can't figure what's the worst part about this:
1. Qantas is actually doing this
2. Qantas thinking people will pay more for 1" or 2" more legroom (I take it the plan is to charge for
any seat with pitch greater than 32"
3. People will actually pay for the 1" or 2" more legroom.
Even before this came out, I always wondered why Qantas was given credit for giving Economy customers a whole 2" extra legroom (from the standard 31" pitch" on a flight of 20 or more hours. C'mon.
I’m paying for E+ on a BWI-DEN-KOA itinerary this August. It might be a function of whatever one’s height is, but for me the difference matters enough to pay for
I do find it a bit humorous how their neighbours over at New Zealand also have this same overhyping and underdeliverance quality, from the cutting of their Carbon 2030 goals to their new business class
34" is the default Y pitch for JAL international widebody configurations. (yes I know there is an exception for the 8 or so NEO 787-8s. But they are not scheduled for long haul)
An airline, lie? How unlikely.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Qantas especially on domestic flights. All my flights have been on time, great crew, free WiFi, free check bags on all fares, free drinks and hot snacks (and often good) all on a less than 2hr flight.
But this project sunrise rollout is quite funny to me. I’m not entirely sure why they’re doing a massive press event right now when the inaugural is more than a year...
Don’t get me wrong, I love Qantas especially on domestic flights. All my flights have been on time, great crew, free WiFi, free check bags on all fares, free drinks and hot snacks (and often good) all on a less than 2hr flight.
But this project sunrise rollout is quite funny to me. I’m not entirely sure why they’re doing a massive press event right now when the inaugural is more than a year away! Hell, even their media pictures look so hilarious because the A350-1000 doesn’t even have its engines installed. Zach Griff posted “the world’s new longest flight is here.” Last time I checked it’s not October 2027. We’re not even in July 2026.
To your point, love the airline but they definitely over promise. Also, 20hrs in one sitting whether you’re in F, J or Y sounds miserable. I’d rather keep flying ME3 or SQ/MH/TG and break up the flying and enjoy the lounge, stretch out, and breathe.
Emirates and Qatar just breathed a sigh of relief.
Other than the nonstop factor, why would anyone sane ever choose Qanats over the ME3 in any class of service
Missiles hitting AUH DOH DXB but not MEL SYD?
Eskimo is currently correct about transiting through the ME presently. This is why the SQ A380 Suits via SIN, still remains the preferred option for many of us.
Personally, I never missed the 20-25hr Fat Albert mission flights, with or without ground refuelling. Therefore, I do not believe that the subject flight will be that appealing to me. Certainly Mrs A, would never agree to it.
Situation won’t last forever in the ME