Lufthansa is in the process of introducing its new Allegris cabin concept, which includes an all-new first class and all-new business class. While these cabins are debuting on newly delivered Airbus A350-900s (and eventually Boeing 787-9s), Lufthansa has limited plans to retrofit existing aircraft.
There is one exception — Lufthansa intends to introduce its Allegris concept on Boeing 747-8s, and the airline will even start the process of installing these cabins before the end of the year. But the carrier’s plan for reconfiguring these jets is wild, as planes will fly with both new and old business class seats at the same time.
In this post:
Many Lufthansa planes won’t get Allegris cabins
For some background, at least officially, Lufthansa doesn’t have plans to introduce its new Allegris cabin concept on a vast majority of existing aircraft:
- Lufthansa has brought back A340-600s temporarily due to the carrier’s aircraft shortage, but these planes will likely be retired again in the coming years, and won’t get new cabins
- Lufthansa has brought back eight A380s, which will be sticking around; these planes are expected to get a different new business class product, but they won’t get the new Allegris cabins
- Lufthansa A340-300s will eventually be retired, while A330-300s will likely eventually leave Lufthansa’s fleet (and maybe be used by Discover Airlines), so there aren’t plans to invest in these cabins beyond the current generation business class
- Lufthansa has only a small subfleet of 747-400s remaining, and they’re expected to be retired in the coming years, so won’t be reconfigured
- Lufthansa hasn’t announced plans to reconfigure existing A350-900s and 787-9s with the new Allegris cabins, though I imagine that could change over time
How Lufthansa Boeing 747-8s will get Allegris seats
Lufthansa has plans to retrofit its Boeing 747-8 fleet with the new Allegris seats in all cabins. Lufthansa has 19 of these jets, and they’re an average of roughly 11 years old. While other airlines are largely retiring 747s, Lufthansa was one of the few airlines to order the updated 747-8, and the carrier is committed to keeping these planes around.
According to Andreas Spaeth, who has amazing knowledge of German aviation (and contacts at Lufthansa), Lufthansa has plans to start reconfiguring its 747s before the end of the year. Specifically, two 747-8s are expected to get new cabins before the end of 2025. However, the plan for updating these planes is anything but straightforward:
- Initially, Lufthansa plans to install its Allegris business class seats on the lower deck of the 747-8; there will be a total of 48 of these business class seats there, which is the same number of business class seats that you’ll currently find
- However, for the time being, the airline will maintain the old business class seats on the upper deck, so you’ll continue to find 32 business class seats there, in a 2-2 configuration
- On top of that, the first class cabin won’t be updated for the time being, and will remain in the nose
But that’s only step one of this project. Then at some point in 2027, the airline plans to update first class and upper deck business class. The upper deck will eventually get the new Allegris business class seats, and on top of that, there will be three Allegris first class seats.
This is kind of a wild plan, no? I can’t think of another airline that has ever kept both an old and new business class product on a plane, and I’m really curious how Lufthansa will go about selling those cabins. Will there just be a surcharge for all lower deck Allegris seats, or will the airline somehow sell this as two totally different products? I suspect it’s the former, but I guess we’ll see…
Why Allegris is complicated on the Boeing 747-8
Why would Lufthansa reconfigure its Boeing 747-8s in a two-step process? The 747 can be a challenging plane for installing premium cabins, given the curvature of the nose, plus the narrower upper deck. This is kind of a recipe for disaster when combined with Lufthansa’s overly engineered Allegris concept.
Installing the Allegris business class seats on the lower deck is super easy, since the 747 lower deck cabin is even wider than the A350 or 787 cabin, so there’s room to spare.
The much more challenging thing is installing this on the upper deck, which is somewhere between a wide body and narrow body in terms of width, and you have a single aisle. I would have to imagine that Lufthansa’s plan is to simply install the Allegris seats on the upper deck in a 1-1 configuration. Essentially with the below seat map, just picture the cabin without the center section. This will no doubt represent a significant capacity reduction over what’s offered now.
I am a bit surprised to hear that Lufthansa only plans to introduce three Allegris first class seats on the 747-8, as I had previously heard that maybe there would be six. It seems like even with the challenging shape of the nose, you could do at least a couple more than that, no?
Will the size of the first class cabin somehow be reduced, with galley space moved forward, or something? Either way, it’ll be 2027 before we deal with that. It’s going to be a significant capacity reduction, though, if we go from eight to three first class seats.
Bottom line
Lufthansa’s Boeing 747-8s will be getting the new Allegris cabins, which is exciting. The good news is that this project will start this year, and two planes are expected to be reconfigured before the end of the year.
The bad news is that this is a two-step process. Lufthansa will initially install Allegris business class seats on the lower deck. Then in 2027, the airline will install Allegris business class on the upper deck, and Allegris first class in the nose.
As a Boeing 747 lover, I am very happy to see Lufthansa keeping the jet around in the long run. However, the plan for reconfiguring these planes has to be one of the strangest we’ve ever seen. I don’t think the industry has ever witnessed a new seating concept with as many logistical challenges as this one. The sad thing is that all of these issues could’ve been avoided. Oh well…
What do you make of Lufthansa’s plans to reconfigure Boeing 747-8s?
LH could put the new first class upstairs in a 2-1 configuration (double suites on one side, single on the other), and expand the business class to the nose of the plane. It's likely though that the three suites downstairs will be two singles and a big double. Not sure what they'll do with the rest of the space, but sure.
LH is truly showing the Star Alliance superiority, just like what E39 endorses.
I'm sceptical about Allegris F in the nose of a 747.
If Swiss had to add 3 tonnes of dead weight to an A330 to balance the weight of 3 or 6 F suites (including doors) located behind door 1 of an A330 (albeit partly because the new Swiss Y seat was lighter), how can LH put the Allegris F suites in the nose of a 747 without having a similar weight and balance issue?
Personally I would be happy with current first class - I am not crazy about the doors - but entertainment system HAS TO be changed. It's ancient.
"Either way, it’ll be 2027 before we deal with that"
More like a possibility it'll be 2037 before we deal with that.
When will the 747-8s get the new premium economy seats? Will they be updated when the Allegris business class is updated?
Wouldn’t it make sense to keep business class on the lower deck, and add the first class on the upper deck, as they used to do with the 747-400s? 1-1 is much more straight forward on the upper deck, and they would get note capacity in both C and F.
The Allegris F product is designed to fit in the front of airplane taper. They can't really fit it much further than the current row 3 (4 seats) which questions what they can do with the space currently occupied by rows 1 and 2 (4 seats).
Probably the best thing they could do would be to add some J or Y seats in front so this product is finally completely non-sensical.
Happy to see 747-8 is sticking around with Lufthansa and that they're evening investing in the product. I have not had a chance to fly this best version of the Queen of the Skies, and this will give me time to do that...
I’m sure this rollout will go off without a hitch
Well, I'm surely frustrated with coverage of business and first class only. Most of the passengers fly economy and that's what I have always been expecting a substantial improvement. Once, I was flying a long haul 747 Lufthansa economy and there's an old lady with health issues due to obesity, she had a most uncomfortable time during the whole flight. It kept me wondering whether a human being was less important than money. A very sad situation.
If they go from 8 to 3 seats in the same 747-8 F cabin, it sounds like there would be a huge amount of wasted space. Surely they could fit 4 single suites and one of those stupid double suites in this space? Or maybe they are planning to shrink the F cabin and expand the J cabin?
I live in an LH hub and have been senator for several years. But the utter stupidity...
If they go from 8 to 3 seats in the same 747-8 F cabin, it sounds like there would be a huge amount of wasted space. Surely they could fit 4 single suites and one of those stupid double suites in this space? Or maybe they are planning to shrink the F cabin and expand the J cabin?
I live in an LH hub and have been senator for several years. But the utter stupidity of the Allegris rollout has made me switch to other airlines. I’ve already made 2 intercontinental trips in J this year, have 8-10 more planned and will do my best to make sure none are with the LH group. What an absolute joke of an airline.
Couldn’t agree more. On my way to AF Ultimate already…
AF really is one of the best out there for European carriers. I’ve been pleasantly surprised. While I miss the F lounges, the J class on LH (and slightly less so on LX) just make me angry.
A middle of the road upgrade for a mediocre seat by a mediocre airline, it's getting trite Lufthansa, let this mess go already, hopefully they'll find a new seat already in the market to install on their A380s, and avoid this huge mistake of a cabin retrofit, they're not Qatar, don't ever dare to comission an exclusive seat if you're gonna come out with this kind of disaster.
Air China does this, some of their 744 has angle flat J in the upper deck while using the old first class seat operating as J on the nose. With the real F behind between L1 and L2.
Well simplicity has never been our strength in Germany. So Lufthansa is doubling down on that. And they actually do the things which they announce because this split refit has been talked about 6 months ago.
Wahnsinn
What a disgrace, LH!
This is so sad, that it is almost hilarious again.
Wtf is going on in the LH management? Who was not considering couples in F traveling together, having all-aisle access and an own screen and table (!) - not possible anymore in the new Allegris "FIRST".
Who thinks that people want to pay for 20cm extra lenght of a bed in C? Or a window seat? Who told...
What a disgrace, LH!
This is so sad, that it is almost hilarious again.
Wtf is going on in the LH management? Who was not considering couples in F traveling together, having all-aisle access and an own screen and table (!) - not possible anymore in the new Allegris "FIRST".
Who thinks that people want to pay for 20cm extra lenght of a bed in C? Or a window seat? Who told them to implement Y-"businesscases" in C?
Who forgot that their fleet has 747s, A350s etc. in which they maybe maybe might consider ONE seat design that does a great job? Who told them: well, lets do chaos instead?
I would fire them all.
Never ever 2027 the 747s will be retrofitted. Not even in 2030.
It is just so sad. Good night LH.
It could be worse.
At least they need not fly 3 tonnes of lead on each aircraft because the weight of the F doors upset the aircraft's balance.
That is reserved for sister airline Swiss.
Allegris already has 5 grades of seats, so 747 will have a sixth. This will be the industry’s most inconsistent business hard product — and all on the same aircraft. LH is creating a nightmare for itself in managing customer expectations and satisfaction.
LH has a tendency to swap the 747-4 for the 747-8 at the last minute. What happens to all those passengers that paid for assigning specific seats in Allegris then?
It's not just that the upper deck is narrower, the fuselage angle is also sharper (more tilted) so it may be harder to fit the full vertical scope of the Allegris suite on the upper deck.
It's probably cheaper for them to just keep the existing J seats rather than switch to a different class for the upper deck.
Allegris' deployment feels like the stuff nightmares (or comedies) are made of (it depends on whether you're the performer or the audience).
Let's not forget that LH will not open any of the new F to award inventory.
It's fascinating to me that if the U.S. 3 would find some way to improve with more polished flight attendants for international the overall product would actually rival any of the European airlines. Certainly there is more consistency now outside of Delta's outdated 767's. The lounges are better ex-U.S., the food is not far off now, the tech is far superior with apps etc, and the hard product is more predictable and often better.
You get great service in all US Service Industries when you tip. Start giving AA FA’s 25% for bringing you a beer and they might smile.
On the contrary, the airline with the most polish is LOT.
My opinions probably don't matter.
Instead of having a split cabin, won't it be better to get all the business class seats to the first floor and have either economy occupy the second floor in a 3-3 layout or premium economy in a 2-2 layout. That way they only have to retrofit business class once and maintain uniform experience onboard.
LH old business seats on the upper deck: premium premium economy?
Came here to say the exact same thing. Flat beds with PE catering and service. Charge a few hundred bucks more than PE. Will sell like crazy.
@DT -- I believe TG did this a few years back, not sure if they do it anymore. They sold the last row of J as PE, so the seat and everything hard product was J, but meals and soft product was PE
Not that LH J soft product is much better than PY though, hard to differentiate
agreed!!
CI Sold their angle flat Business Class seats on the 744 as Premium Economy before they were retired
Or go further on the de bundled fares and sell this as a business class minus so that all the Allegris seats including the herringbone-aisle ones look like premium.
Allegris being only allocatable with cash and miles only giving access to this inferior product :)
Can even cater a deferentiated Menu considering they are prepared in differents galleys
Great way to make it look like redemptions from Avianca are still a good value :)
LH could then claim to be the only airline offering full-flat beds in PE. But then again it’ll only be on the 747-8 and they’ll have an inconsistent PE product instead of J.
@Matt Kleiderman
Exactly. Kind of premium economy plus.
This will be excellent!
…once it’s finished. Even I as a LH fanboy has to come to terms with what is a, at best, chaotic product launch. Slightly disappointed at only 3 seats as I believe there would be room for three rows in a 1-1 config.
This is literally the worst product rollout ever. I doubt we get fully retrofitted Allegris cabins by the end of this decade at this point.
I don't know what they're huffing there in Köln, but it's fried their brains. Haven't they had years to sort this out? If every company in the Federal Republic was run like this basket case, Germany would have the economy of Albania.
That’s where the German economy is headed. Lufthansa isn’t the only mismanaged company in town. Most other large German businesses are in the same state.
Ben, when are we getting a first class review of the new allegrris? I reckon just splash for one seat on an empty flight in first and see if you can test the double suite at the same time. Your money not mine of course :)
Maybe live blog it ala the residence review.
"As a Boeing 747 lover, I am very happy to see Lufthansa keeping the jet around in the long run."
This 100%. Although this process is chaotic and strange, it is ultimately a good mood and makes me think Lufthansa is planning to keep these birds flying for at least five years or so.
Let's see if SFO or Denver get lucky...
I thought they abandoned this stupid idea
Have the Allegris seats gotten safety certified for use now?
I think it will be 1-2 on the upper. Imagine actually just the top row of seats in your image gone, with seat “alley” access to the window seats similar to JAL 787. Maybe even on both sides in a 2-2. Might even be why they need more time - to engineer it.
3 seat first class cabin on 747 can be cool I think. I wonder if LH is thinking about a single suite 1st row at the nose and 2 window suites on the 2nd row with center aisle.