For some time now, we’ve known that JetBlue and United plan to launch a partnership. There’s now a major update, as the details have been revealed.
In this post:
Details of the JetBlue & United Blue Sky collaboration
JetBlue and United will be launching a partnership, named Blue Sky. Going back several years, this would’ve seemed unthinkable, but sure enough, industry dynamics have evolved. The partnership includes reciprocal loyalty perks, access to JFK for United, and much more.
Before we get into the details, here’s what United CEO Scott Kirby had to say:
“Blue Sky reflects our airlines’ shared focus on innovation and the customer experience. The JetBlue brand is tied to a great product and under Joanna’s leadership the airline continues to deliver for customers. We’re always looking for ways to give our MileagePlus members even more value and benefits and this collaboration gives them new, unique ways to use their hard-earned miles and find options that fit their schedule. Plus, our employees are really excited about United’s return to JFK for the longer-term and we’re all looking forward to starting up flights very soon.”
Here’s what JetBlue CEO Joanna Geraghty had to say:
“This collaboration with United is a bold step forward for the industry — one that brings together two customer-focused airlines to deliver more choices for travelers and value across our networks. United’s global reach perfectly complements JetBlue’s East Coast leisure network, and significantly expands the options and benefits for TrueBlue members, no matter where in the world they are traveling. This is a clear win for our customers and crewmembers, and supports our JetForward strategy.”
I’ll go over the details below, but let me note that specifics largely still haven’t been revealed, so there’s a lot more for us to still learn.
JetBlue & United will offer reciprocal points opportunities
JetBlue TrueBlue and United MileagePlus are introducing reciprocal points earning and redemption opportunities. Exact details remain to be seen, but the idea is that JetBlue TrueBlue members can earn and redeem points on most United flights, while United MileagePlus members can earn and redeem miles on most JetBlue flights.
The two airlines will allow tickets to be booked across the websites of both airlines. Note that Blue Sky includes an interline agreement, but not a codeshare agreement, meaning that airlines will continue to publish and market flights independently, under their own brand and flight numbers.
I’m curious to see exactly what mileage earning and redemption rates look like, and what flights are excluded from the arrangement.
JetBlue & United will offer reciprocal elite perks
JetBlue TrueBlue and United MileagePlus are introducing reciprocal elite perks. We’re talking things like priority check-in, security, and boarding, free checked bag allowances, preferred and extra legroom seats, and same day flight changes.
The experience won’t be quite as seamless or rewarding as it would be when flying directly with the “native” airline, but these are still some pretty strong perks. There’s no mention of first class upgrades or lounge access, at least as of now.
JetBlue & United will trade slots at JFK, EWR
As we know, one of United’s big incentives for wanting to partner with JetBlue is access to JFK, which United CEO Scott Kirby views as a key part to the carrier’s success. As part of this agreement:
- JetBlue will provide United access to slots at JFK for up to seven daily roundtrip flights out of Terminal 6, to begin as early as 2027
- United will provide JetBlue access to eight flight timings at EWR, making this a net neutral exchange, as it’s described
Presumably United wants to launch transcon flights from JFK, but seven daily slots is presumably only the beginning of what United is hoping for.
United will use JetBlue’s Paisly booking platform
As part of this deal, United will move its website and mobile app’s ability to sell hotels, rental cars, cruises, and travel insurance, to new technology and service provided by JetBlue’s Paisly platform. This will apply to both standalone and package bookings.
My take on the JetBlue & United partnership
On the surface, this is a creative yet unconventional partnership. JetBlue and United don’t have much overlap in terms of their networks, and I’d consider them to largely be competitive. So to see them launch a partnership in this way isn’t something you’d traditionally expect to see. That being said, the objectives are clear:
- JetBlue is struggling with profitability, and needs a domestic, global airline partner; we previously saw JetBlue partner with American, but that faced regulatory issues, and then the airlines decided not to pursue a scaled back partnership
- United CEO Scott Kirby is desperate for the airline to return to slot controlled JFK, and he knows that some sort of cooperation with JetBlue is the best way to accomplish that
In the short term, I think JetBlue actually has a fair bit to gain here. United MileagePlus has a much bigger customer base, so the airline can potentially gain quite a few customers who might consider flying with the airline if there are loyalty perks involved. That’s especially true in the New York area. For that matter, JetBlue tickets being bookable on United’s website should be helpful as well.
What’s the upside for United? First of all, I think the phrase “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” comes to mind. We know JetBlue wanted a domestic partnership, and if United didn’t take the partnership, American would’ve figured out some arrangement. United is stronger if American is weaker. Second of all, there’s of course the JFK play.
What I find interesting is that this arrangement only gives United JFK slots as of some point in 2027. Admittedly that’s probably partly due to the timeline of the new Terminal 6 opening. However, on the surface, there’s nothing preventing slots from being given up earlier.
But even in 2027, United is only looking at slots for seven daily flights. That’s not a lot at all, and surely United’s JFK ambitions are much bigger than that. I’d also say that it’s funny to see United giving JetBlue flight timings at EWR, since the airline has shrunk their in the past, and I don’t see much upside to JetBlue expanding there.
We know that this is likely only step one of this partnership, and that there’s more to come. If you ask me, the end goal seems clear, which is United just outright acquiring JetBlue. So this just seems like a foot in the door approach, to start to warm everyone up to that concept.
Bottom line
As expected, JetBlue and United are launching a partnership. Initially this will include a loyalty collaboration, allowing members of both airlines to earn and redeem points, and take advantage of elite perks. We’ll also see the two airlines sell tickets on each others’ websites, as part of an interline agreement.
Starting in 2027 and beyond, JetBlue will give United access to some JFK slots, while United will give JetBlue access to some desirable EWR flight timings. I’m looking forward to learning the exact details of this arrangement, and also to see where things go from here…
What do you make of this new Blue Sky partnership?
I will fly more than 130k this year, usually in C. MCO is my home airport, and I fly to NY about every six weeks, usually as a stopover on my way overseas. If B6 flights earn MileagePlus miles and status, I will probably move most of my oneworld/Skyteam flying to B6/UA/Star, and chase status for the first time since the pandemic.
United just keeps getting stronger. As much as I want to be OneWorld, it's really hard to be an AA flyer outside of their main hubs these days. It's such a shame. Basically all my spend is diverting from BA/AA -> United as a US based transatlantic flyer.
The wording is important and changes the meaning. AA and JetBlue was not proposing a partnership but rather a merger or a major deal. United is only proposing a partnership therefoere it does not need approval from government authorities and therefore it is just a business agreement.
I’ll be curious to see what United’s pilots think of this arrangement. Just a guess , but I don’t think they will like it.
It now appears that you can get access to United economy plus seats at check in (mileage plus silver status benefit) on card spend alone for $50K with jet blue card Mosaic 1 status. Silver status earned on card spend alone on United cards requires $120K. Is that correct? Could flying on Jet Blue for $5000 get you this benefit on United faster than actually flying United?
I need the San Diego to Newark will ual have direct flights on Jet blue points ? im tired of flying into jfk just to drive to get to jersey.. this will be a good thing if it happens with all the ATC shortages now
Seven departures a day from JFK? I bet it'll be four to SFO and three to LAX, or some slight variation thereof.
PS loads out of JFK were doing great before UA pulled out of JFK, IIRC. So that would certainly make financial sense.
Codesharing on BOS-LHR?
Alright, but can we all agree that the weirdest part of the deal is Paisly? The ancillaries are often where real money is made (selling cruise packages or hotels). Why did Uited agree to use the B6 ancillary platform (but not JB Vacations)?
Let’s not forget that airline social media has been wildly expecting an acquisition of B6 by UA for months. UA had to file a disclaimer to investors with the SEC denying merger discussions.
UA has not only vociferously trashed the FAA which finally decided to limit EWR flight activity but also repeated over and over its narrative about the unfairness of the FAA’s decision to remove slot controls at EWR almost 10 years ago even...
Let’s not forget that airline social media has been wildly expecting an acquisition of B6 by UA for months. UA had to file a disclaimer to investors with the SEC denying merger discussions.
UA has not only vociferously trashed the FAA which finally decided to limit EWR flight activity but also repeated over and over its narrative about the unfairness of the FAA’s decision to remove slot controls at EWR almost 10 years ago even though UA underutilized its slots at EWR while controlling 65-70% of EWRs slots which has been the case since the time that CO operated a EWR hub. At the same time, they have repeatedly admitted the mistake of leaving JFK where they were outclassed by AA, B6 and DL in size.
Even though AA was told by federal court and the DOJ that it could have applied for a non-JV type arrangement with B6 similar to the AA-AS relationship, AA has continued to hold onto the hope that a domestic JV will be allowed and are suing B6.
AA and UA’s NYC strategies over the past 20 years can only be described as dumb and dumber – with DL taking full advantage.
B6 has negotiated this deal very well. Not a soul forecast that B6 MIGHT give UA a single digit number of slots IN TWO YEARS. UA will still not gain the scale necessary to compete with anyone at JFK.
B6 gets the opportunity to turn itself around with UA’s help; AA’s experience w/ the NEA shows that B6 got more benefit than AA – and this time is undoubtedly not any different for UA.
B6 will get far more traffic pumped onto its system from UA than the other way around.
And yet there are still people that are convinced that EWR is not part of the NYC air transportation system and will continue to hold out hope for a B6 acquisition when the DOJ has repeatedly considered all airports in a metro area as part of merger analyses, including for NYC.
This is a good day for B6; they negotiated this all beautifully and UA’s hype – as usual – has turned out to be far in excess of reality.
I am not sure how much this benefits B6. For the NEA, AA provided long haul domestic and European traffic to B6 at JFK. Both airlines shared hubs at JFK. UAL located at EWR, cant provide feed traffic to B6. If you live in Queens or LI, you are not going to use UAL or it's frequent flyer program.
first, this is so far just a loyalty program partnership and allows both B6 and UA to gain "access" to parts of each other's network.
When codesharing is added, which it certainly will be, then the benefit to each will grow.
B6 has needed a larger network outside of the east coast and UA needs access to markets where B6 is strong. This will help each other incrementally. absent a joint venture - which...
first, this is so far just a loyalty program partnership and allows both B6 and UA to gain "access" to parts of each other's network.
When codesharing is added, which it certainly will be, then the benefit to each will grow.
B6 has needed a larger network outside of the east coast and UA needs access to markets where B6 is strong. This will help each other incrementally. absent a joint venture - which won't happen - both will protect their own interests first but will be able to gain some benefit from the sales efforts of the other partner.
B6 is likely to gain a bigger benefit due to UA's larger size. As much as UA wants to sell seats out of JFK, they will gain a bigger benefit from selling seats on their own metal out of EWR and there will really be comparatively very few customers that will fly a codeshare. The AA/AS partnership on the west coast has shown that AA books a pretty small number of passengers on AS metal.
No one shows their hand in a poker game. This is the first hand of many rounds by UA and street agrees with their position. UA up, B6 low to flat today, and so are DL and AA
crude oil is down. Airline stock movements are heavily tied to fuel price changes.
JBLU investors want a full buyout but that doesn't mean it will happen.
YTD, ALK, DAL and UAL are down about 20%.
AAL and JBLU are down 35+%.
LUV is flat.
this news hasn't moved the trajectory of the industry.
and by the time UAL announces the costs of its labor agreements as well as the revenue...
crude oil is down. Airline stock movements are heavily tied to fuel price changes.
JBLU investors want a full buyout but that doesn't mean it will happen.
YTD, ALK, DAL and UAL are down about 20%.
AAL and JBLU are down 35+%.
LUV is flat.
this news hasn't moved the trajectory of the industry.
and by the time UAL announces the costs of its labor agreements as well as the revenue hit from EWR, their positive stock movement of the last six months of 2024 will be reversed.
Another site noted that Scott Kirby noted that UAL has had to discount in order to rebuild traffic at EWR; they have clearly been hurt by all of the negativity about EWR and that has undoubtedly benefitted DL, although DL will likely not admit that its likely better results were due to someone else's problems.
For an SFO UA captive, the option to take a, usually much less expensive, Jet Blue flight to JFK instead of an expensive UA flight to EWR and keep status perks and earning is very interesting.
For B6 to truly leverage this agreement, it needs entry into the Star Alliance once Terminal 6 is opened at JFK. If I understand correctly, T6 will populate with Euro Star carriers (Luft, Swiss, Austrian) and one or two Asian Star carriers (All Nippon).
United has veto power over Star applications since it was a founding member. B6 needs to get its foot in the door and provide forward domestic service for these Star foreign carriers at JFK.
Good for B6. They can market themselves to the smaller northeast markets that they serve as a gateway for star alliance flights to Europe through the new T6 at JFK. Presumably UA gets the interline cut of that ticketing action and in exchange gets a few slots for p.s. service v2.0 - wonder what planes UA will fly on that route, will be telling if it is the old 757s! All in all not bad...
Good for B6. They can market themselves to the smaller northeast markets that they serve as a gateway for star alliance flights to Europe through the new T6 at JFK. Presumably UA gets the interline cut of that ticketing action and in exchange gets a few slots for p.s. service v2.0 - wonder what planes UA will fly on that route, will be telling if it is the old 757s! All in all not bad for premium JFK-LAX/SFO flyers come 2027 - will get excellent narrowbody service from B6 and AA (assuming the XLRs come online by then), something from UA (have to presume they'll shift the 777s from EWR and leave the 757s flying there to have a shot at winning customers, although could see UA focus more on SFO and B6 LAX) and may pressure DL to increase its usage of the 330s on the route versus the less desirable 767 product.
As for a full merger, who knows, but so far this is much more advantageous for B6 than UA.
My thought on JetBlue gaining some flight times / slots or whatever at EWR: It gives Kirby another voice to advocate for slot control at EWR that is more “altruistic” than United wanting to build a fortress hub at EWR (which they obviously do) and jack up fares like in other fortress hubs
the whole notion of UA giving up flights at a schedule coordinated airport - which EWR is - in exchange for slots at a slot-controlled airport reeks of collusion which the DOJ won't miss. There is no reason for UA to scale back flights at EWR in order for a partner to gain benefits.
The DOJ is not going to add slot controls to any airport where a single carrier has more than 50%...
the whole notion of UA giving up flights at a schedule coordinated airport - which EWR is - in exchange for slots at a slot-controlled airport reeks of collusion which the DOJ won't miss. There is no reason for UA to scale back flights at EWR in order for a partner to gain benefits.
The DOJ is not going to add slot controls to any airport where a single carrier has more than 50% of the flights. They did not allow AA/US to gain any advantage from the merger by gaining more flights at DCA.
The FAA can schedule coordinate flights at congested airports - which is what they are doing at EWR - without allowing a competitor to lock in their dominance.
Kirby mismanaged US' slot portfolio in NYC and history will show that he has mishandled UA's position at EWR in line with what previous UA execs have done in NYC.
This is bigger than people realize when looking at it through the status lens. While BOS and FLL are icing on the cake, JFK is what this is about. No tried and true 1K, or like myself, just flying enough for Gold, would have flown B6. That of course kept a lot of NYC and LI people out of the equation who are loyal to AA or Delta, and Kirby has lamented the loss of...
This is bigger than people realize when looking at it through the status lens. While BOS and FLL are icing on the cake, JFK is what this is about. No tried and true 1K, or like myself, just flying enough for Gold, would have flown B6. That of course kept a lot of NYC and LI people out of the equation who are loyal to AA or Delta, and Kirby has lamented the loss of JFK slots over and over.
The fact that they are competing domestically just opens up many more possibilities. Using a United lounge (an area that B6 has none), and then flying Mint TATL or to LAX from EWR? You've now given a wide swath of people who would never have considered B6 that can now fly them. And to be clear, the end game is taking over B6 brick by brick.
If they acquire B6 and UA then has a real presence out of JFK, sure. But that's a big if. If you live on LI chances are you were not ever going to EWR anyway. NYC folks that are UA loyal - sure - may capture some of them on flights to FL/Caribbean/etc if they were EWR/JFK agnostic anyway and can build status with UA. And B6 will market their mint product to UA flyers...
If they acquire B6 and UA then has a real presence out of JFK, sure. But that's a big if. If you live on LI chances are you were not ever going to EWR anyway. NYC folks that are UA loyal - sure - may capture some of them on flights to FL/Caribbean/etc if they were EWR/JFK agnostic anyway and can build status with UA. And B6 will market their mint product to UA flyers when all UA could offer from EWR was a first class recliner chair.
But why on earth would B6 start TATL/LAX from EWR when it already has that from JFK? Will probably be some regional connecting flights to UA long-haul destinations that B6 can market to its local markets.
The problem with all of this is that there is no easy way of getting from EWR to JFK. So the synergies don't really exist unless there is an acquisition, and again, that's a big if.
B6 is the winner on this one for sure, at least for today.
Part of me feels, that every move United (read: Kirby) makes is more about exacting revenge on his former employer that shit canned him, rather than a strategic move for the airline.
Maybe, although if anyone does the opposite of what AA are doing there's a good chance you'll make money.
Vengeance may be more satisfying if it is not inflicted immediately as in:
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
(I'm sure the above is posted on a sign in Kirby's office)
I think UA's JFK slots were leased to Delta, not sold. Does that lease have an end date?
Also, looks like the new T6 will be the Star terminal with Lufthansa (plus Cathay and Aer Lingus, but their flight numbers will be smaller than Lufthansa/Swiss/Brussels/ITA/Austrian)
It must be very long-term or else you have to imagine Scott Kirby would talk publicly about taking those slots back from Delta as soon as United legally could. The fact that he doesn't says everything.
Pretty underwhelming...UA slots at JFK in 2027...B6 could easily be bought by then. Also, no upgrades and extra-legroom "at check-in" (aka middle seats only). B6 should not have spurned AA. Could have just done an AS-style deal and both would have benefitted.
Also - 2027 is a logical time for United to return to JFK as the current airport setup isn't really conducive for them to return - they need the renovated Terminal 6 open. United can open a lounge there (and so can JetBlue, hopefully) and provide full customer service. When they briefly returned after Covid, the whole thing seemed a bit thrown together.
This is beneficial for those of us who left the New York area during the pandemic and unable to use TrueBlue points in our new home market. I'd like to know if airline credit card benefits also carryover (free checked bag, etc.)
I'm not sure an acquisition is the obvious outcome here...
1) This kind of agreement allows the airlines to keep all their slots - an acquisition could lead to slot divestitures
2) The Trump administration is requiring all kinds of BS to get mergers approved
3) A subsequent administration may be more anti-airline merger
4) Not sure if there is appetite from ANY political party to let any of the big 4...
I'm not sure an acquisition is the obvious outcome here...
1) This kind of agreement allows the airlines to keep all their slots - an acquisition could lead to slot divestitures
2) The Trump administration is requiring all kinds of BS to get mergers approved
3) A subsequent administration may be more anti-airline merger
4) Not sure if there is appetite from ANY political party to let any of the big 4 airlines get bigger
5) If an acquisition was obviously coming, it would have been announced already
I guess I could see a future merger scenario where Southwest or Frontier decides it can afford and wants a large operation at EWR, and that divestment by United becomes one of the key approval conditions. But while that theoretically could make sense for an LCC's business model (ala "secondary airports" in Europe), I don't know if either of them could actually make it work in practice based on how the US aviation market works nowadays.
For one thing, I don't know what route maps Lucky is looking at, but these two airlines aren't very competitive at all. Yes, you have the JFK/EWR overlap - but how competitive is that really? The New York metro area is very large and can be challenging to get around. Manhattan and Staten Island are both roughly equidistant from EWR and JFK - but the rest of the area is very much divided with EWR...
For one thing, I don't know what route maps Lucky is looking at, but these two airlines aren't very competitive at all. Yes, you have the JFK/EWR overlap - but how competitive is that really? The New York metro area is very large and can be challenging to get around. Manhattan and Staten Island are both roughly equidistant from EWR and JFK - but the rest of the area is very much divided with EWR owning Jersey and JFK being the longer haul gateway for the remainder of the region.
But, put NYC aside (which is clearly difficult for some of you)... UA has little influence at BOS anymore, this gets it back. UA superserves markets where B6 is not even an afterthought. So that's an incentive for them. The part of the story that seems to be ignored here is that UA gets a beachhead at FLL. And having a presence in South Florida is something that they've wanted to regain for many years. The JFK stuff is indeed underwhelming, but I suspect that all of this is just a start.The part of the story that seems to be ignored here is that UA gets a beachhead at FLL. And having a presence in South Florida is something that they've wanted to regain for many years. The JFK stuff may appear underwhelming, but I suspect that all of this is just a start.
I'm not sure what your point is but the DOJ has frequently treated airports in the same metro area as the same for competitive purposes.
UA and B6 both know that the chances are very low that the DOJ would allow a full merger or acquisition and is doubtful that B6 wants to waste even more time trying to defend a deal that could be shot down.
BOS and S. Florida could make sense...
I'm not sure what your point is but the DOJ has frequently treated airports in the same metro area as the same for competitive purposes.
UA and B6 both know that the chances are very low that the DOJ would allow a full merger or acquisition and is doubtful that B6 wants to waste even more time trying to defend a deal that could be shot down.
BOS and S. Florida could make sense from a competitive standpoint but B6' largest operation is at JFK and UA is the largest airline in NYC by local market revenue. It is highly unlikely that any administration will allow further consolidation involving AA, DL or UA in NYC
JFK and EWR are not the same as DAL and DFW, nor ORD/MDW. They are quite far apart timewise and should not really be considered all that competitive. They're really only competitive from Manhattan and Staten Island. From anywhere else, getting to one or the other isn't worth the trouble.
So yes, I'm disagreeing with the statement that UA and B6 aren't complimentary. i see this a lot and it's inaccurate. And if you...
JFK and EWR are not the same as DAL and DFW, nor ORD/MDW. They are quite far apart timewise and should not really be considered all that competitive. They're really only competitive from Manhattan and Staten Island. From anywhere else, getting to one or the other isn't worth the trouble.
So yes, I'm disagreeing with the statement that UA and B6 aren't complimentary. i see this a lot and it's inaccurate. And if you disagree with me, then you also disagree with Scott Kirby, who has become quite aware that EWR is not a good alternative to JFK (and vice versa).
Exactly. People that don't live in the area don't realize the problems getting to the different airports. I double my cost and triple my time going to JFK or LGA compared to EWR. You need to pass through Manhattan, which is surrounded by two rivers. It's not easy, and I dread when I do fly out of them on the limited occasions. With bad traffic in NYC, I might be able to get to PHL faster.
Both of you are correct. The government traditionally has treated LGA, EWR, and JFK as a single airline market for all purposes, AND there is no meaningful overlap between EWR and JFK in practice due to the geography and how long it will take by mass transit or cars.
The only overlaps are Lower Manhattan and then maybe a "handful" of people in/near New Rochelle or Stamford that can take the 3-5 daily Amtrak roundtrips...
Both of you are correct. The government traditionally has treated LGA, EWR, and JFK as a single airline market for all purposes, AND there is no meaningful overlap between EWR and JFK in practice due to the geography and how long it will take by mass transit or cars.
The only overlaps are Lower Manhattan and then maybe a "handful" of people in/near New Rochelle or Stamford that can take the 3-5 daily Amtrak roundtrips between EWR and those two places via Penn Station. Amtrak would undoubtedly add those stops onto more of its corridor trains if significant demand really existed for it.
I do agree that United gets far less out of this deal in NYC than they potentially could in Boston or Fort Lauderdale/Miami given that neither is currently a significant market for it. The only way it really "works" in NYC is if United snags a bunch of corporate contracts from AA in LAX and SFO that were simply unwilling to go to EWR but otherwise would always fly United/*A.
UA looks desperate with this plan:
- Only a handful of UA flights out of JFK
- B6 picks up a few flights out of EWR (which it doesn't need)
- Joint flight listings out of NYC and BOS
- a bit more variety with FF programs
- Some auxiliary booking tie-ups
Much ado about nothing.
I feel B6 was better off sticking it out with the NEA plan, especially if AA could have gotten a reversed decision under the new administration. Better yet, extend the NEA to BOS as well.
What is the difference that makes the UA partnership legal but the AA one was blocked? If DOJ was worried about competition, isn't this much worse for the northeast (JFK/EWR)?
AA and B6 had a revenue sharing joint venture that involved joint capacity planning which the DOJ said - and the courts agreed - was tantamount to a merger and was blocked because AA/B6 did not apply for that benefit and because they believed B6 provided price checking to the big 3 in NYC including AA. The DOJ does have the right to block corporate strategies that reduce competition.
AA has to use the...
AA and B6 had a revenue sharing joint venture that involved joint capacity planning which the DOJ said - and the courts agreed - was tantamount to a merger and was blocked because AA/B6 did not apply for that benefit and because they believed B6 provided price checking to the big 3 in NYC including AA. The DOJ does have the right to block corporate strategies that reduce competition.
AA has to use the assets it has to compete. They are smaller than DL and UA and even smaller than B6 at JFK but they do have more than enough of a presence to be able to compete.
If AA can't compete, then UA's future at JFK might be from AA finally realizing that they cannot sustain a money-losing operation - but I suspect they have been through so many iterations of growth and retraction in NYC that they can use the slots that they have about as efficiently as possible.
I don’t see many B6 flyers taking advantage of UA’s international network out of EWR like they did with AA out of JFK during the NEA despite the benefits.
For an international journey, B6 flyers will certainly trek out to Newark if it makes sense. You can also connect on United from LGA to a United hub if necessary.
Yup, another round is stale cheese toast. Underwhelming and of much more benefit to JetBlue than United
Nice to see Jetblue finally have a long overdue domestic partner.
I wonder if they could still also partner with Alaska Airlines too.
That triggered a sudden thought: What if JetBlue did partner with UA & AS and maybe another airline or two, and became the first virtual airline with no planes/crews of its own?
It's the beginning of the end for B6. 5 years from now United will just absorb Jetblue and all planes will be branded UA.
it is also possible that a couple years and UA pumping revenue onto B6 flights will be enough for B6 to turn itself around with it having no desire to let go of any more slots or put itself up on the market.
Joanne and the current B6 team are the best leaders the company has had in years. I think they can figure out how to turn the ship around.
UA might have just given them the extra nudge they need to remain as a standalone carrier.
Joanna ran a terrible operation...I mean just terrible.
Promoting her to CEO is what's known as addition by subtraction.
and she is the one that is now turning it around as the CEO.
When execs that are not CEOs at companies deliver poor performance, you always have to ask who makes the final decision.
We don't know who thought that a perpetually poor operation would pay off for B6 but Joanne and co. as CEO are fixing it which should have been done at least 10 years ago.
DL would not have...
and she is the one that is now turning it around as the CEO.
When execs that are not CEOs at companies deliver poor performance, you always have to ask who makes the final decision.
We don't know who thought that a perpetually poor operation would pay off for B6 but Joanne and co. as CEO are fixing it which should have been done at least 10 years ago.
DL would not have been able to grow as much in NYC and BOS if B6 ran a good operation.
DT,
B6 probably could have had a better outcome for Virgin America than AS but AS underperformed its historic averages because of not just the complexity of the Virgin America merger but also the price they paid for it - only to dismantle large portions of it.
The beginning of the end was when B6 failed to acquire Virgin America. All of their woes since then stem from that error.
the loyalty program partnership is expected.
Getting the ability to add 7 roundtrips from JFK "as early as 2027" is incredibly underwhelming.
since this is not a joint venture, UA will just book seats on B6 and serve as their chief marketer - similar to what AA did but under the short-lived JV.
I'm not sure anyone that actually currently serves JFK or BOS or anywhere else on B6' network is threatened.
transfer...
the loyalty program partnership is expected.
Getting the ability to add 7 roundtrips from JFK "as early as 2027" is incredibly underwhelming.
since this is not a joint venture, UA will just book seats on B6 and serve as their chief marketer - similar to what AA did but under the short-lived JV.
I'm not sure anyone that actually currently serves JFK or BOS or anywhere else on B6' network is threatened.
transfer of JFK slots including dropping B6 flights at EWR will very likely require DOJ approval with the focus on the EWR end since it further concentrates the market to UA's favor.
I have to agree with you on this one, Tim. This is very underwhelming.
An interline can be just as effective as a codeshare with the right parameters but it's still very underwhelming. 7 roundtrips out of JFK by 2027... yawn.
thank you, Max. I really do look forward to positively interacting w you.
B6 has zero reason to give away its crown jewels to someone that will compete in B6' best markets. 7 roundtrips is only enough to compete at parity in either LAX or SFO but not both given the level of service that B6 and DL have in those markets - even before considering AA.
B6 calculated the value of the...
thank you, Max. I really do look forward to positively interacting w you.
B6 has zero reason to give away its crown jewels to someone that will compete in B6' best markets. 7 roundtrips is only enough to compete at parity in either LAX or SFO but not both given the level of service that B6 and DL have in those markets - even before considering AA.
B6 calculated the value of the bookings that UA will put on its system - undoubtedly based on their experience at AA - as worth 7 flights at JFK.
UA might have been the one that was suckered into giving B6 access to UA's North America network and keeping UA from becoming a competitive threat to anyone at JFK including B6
I think the number of flights has much more to do with the number of gates at T6 which is 10 or 11. Given the carrier count at T6, there’s not a lot of room for evening peak flights. B6 probably dumped mid-day slots to UA which they can use in-part for transcons, but maybe also for like DEN/ORD/IAH to connect onto ITA/Swiss/Brussels flights that don’t exist from those airports or aren’t year-round. A one...
I think the number of flights has much more to do with the number of gates at T6 which is 10 or 11. Given the carrier count at T6, there’s not a lot of room for evening peak flights. B6 probably dumped mid-day slots to UA which they can use in-part for transcons, but maybe also for like DEN/ORD/IAH to connect onto ITA/Swiss/Brussels flights that don’t exist from those airports or aren’t year-round. A one stop DEN-JFK-GVA for example.
Could be some interesting/lengthy connection times but T6 probably won’t be a bad place for a layover
If you're insistent on flying through JFK but are a UA flyer, you can soon book flights on B6 and and still get points/status. True, it's not impressive at this point - but it does get them back into JFK.
And, again, I think that the B6 hub at FLL may be of at least equal importance strategically. If it's not, it should be. Unlike NYC, south Florida is a growing market and FLL...
If you're insistent on flying through JFK but are a UA flyer, you can soon book flights on B6 and and still get points/status. True, it's not impressive at this point - but it does get them back into JFK.
And, again, I think that the B6 hub at FLL may be of at least equal importance strategically. If it's not, it should be. Unlike NYC, south Florida is a growing market and FLL is the nearly ideal gateway to Latin America. They'd actually be competitive with AA in Latin America with gateway hubs at IAH and FLL, vs AA's DFW and MIA. And Latin America is rapidly growing, again unlike Noo Yawk which so many of you are fixated on.
Exciting! So this appears mainly focused on NYC customers who can no me fly JetBlue to accrue United Status
All the routes United would likely serve from JFK (SFO,Denver,LAX) will be already serviced from JetBlue
At EWR, maybe JetBlue will add LAD year round. Otherwise, what would they do with their slots, add more MCO and FLL?
LAD? Why had nobody else thought of that?