Delta Pilots Are Taking Their Hats Off

Delta Pilots Are Taking Their Hats Off

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Pilots are usually pretty easy to identify at airports, given the distinctive features of their uniforms. Their uniforms generally have three or four stripes (outside the US you’ll sometimes see two stripes), as well as the easily identifiable pilot hat.

Well, as noted by @xJonNYC, if you see Delta pilots in airports in the coming days and weeks, you may notice that some aren’t wearing hats. That’s not a fluke.

Delta pilots express frustration by taking hats off

Pilots are one of Delta’s few unionized work groups, and they’re represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA). Pilots have been wanting a new contract for quite some time, but haven’t made much progress. The hostility between pilots and management is continuing to grow, as the pilots feel that executives are dragging their feet.

On Thursday, hundreds of off-duty Delta pilots picketed at airports around the country, in an effort to get a new contract.

Delta pilots picketed nationwide on Thursday

Pilots have a subtle new way of expressing their frustration with management, and that comes in the form of a “Hats Off to a New Contract” campaign. It would appear that the union is encouraging pilots to no longer wear their hats, as a small way of indicating that they want a new contract.

Now, just because the union recommends this doesn’t mean all pilots will go along with it. For that matter, you might be able to see where pilots stand on things based on whether or not they’re wearing their hats while walking around airports.

But ultimately this seems like a polite way to express displeasure, and I’m a fan of that.

In the past we’ve seen pilots at some airlines take very different approaches to expressing frustration with management. For example, back in the late 2000s, many United pilots were angry, and some would “ride the brakes” while taxiing, in order to increase fuel burn. So yeah, not wearing your hat pales in comparison to that.

Don’t expect Delta pilots to be wearing their hats

Why do Delta pilots want a new contract?

It goes without saying that it has been a rough couple of years for the airline industry, though at this point things are looking up. There also continues to be a major pilot shortage, so pilots have quite a bit of bargaining power.

We’ve seen several regional airlines massively increase pay. Admittedly regional pilots weren’t paid much prior to these changes, as the goal is always to work at one of the “major” carriers, where pay has always been quite good.

At this point virtually all the major airlines are going through contract negotiations with pilots, as pilots want more pay. United pilots have a tentative new contract that will see them get pay raises of up to 14%, and the pilots will vote on that in mid-July. Meanwhile it’s rumored that American pilots are about to vote on a contract that could see them get pay raises of up to 17%.

For example, with American’s proposed new contract, senior Boeing 737 captains would earn a base salary of $340,000 per year, while senior Boeing 777 captains would earn a base salary of $425,000 per year.

Pilots at Alaska, Delta, and Southwest, are all also fighting for new contracts, but aren’t quite as far along as American or United. I’m curious to see how this works out. Depending on your economic outlook, I certainly can’t blame the pilots for wanting to lock in something ASAP, because I think some darker days are ahead, and pilots will have much less leverage then.

Delta pilots want a new contract

Bottom line

Delta pilots are fighting for a new contract. In addition to picketing around the country, you can also expect that a lot of pilots won’t be wearing their hats at airports. This is something totally subtle that most people probably wouldn’t notice or think about. But as someone who finds this kind of stuff interesting, I’d certainly be curious to observe this.

If you fly Delta in the coming days, please report back on whether you see Delta pilots wearing hats or not!

Conversations (88)
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  1. Smiles Guest

    The idea that a paramedic has even the slightest stress of an airline pilot or skill is ludicrous

  2. George Sullivan Guest

    Ticket prices outrageous, flights screwed up!! Missed being able to spend only break I get all year to see my family because of canceled flights. Oh ya let’s march around and get more money. Here’s a Novel idea. Get back in the cockpits and do your job and be thankful you have one.

    1. Mikey Guest

      We worked through this entire pandemic flying everyone safely, putting our own health and families health on the line, now, after management completely botched the recovery, overpromised and took taxpayers money... now we should shut up and eat cake!!?? I think you all will be seeing a real world example of supply and demand very soon!

  3. Jim Guest

    Do you want to fly with a flight crew that is half asleep!? Not me I was once in there shoes. Get smart!

  4. Lynda Delta Guest

    Having a pilot in the family who is flying international, I know the schedule can be an adjustment on a regular basis not just now with fewer pilots. We want our pilots and crew to be rested when they fly. The contract is important for this reason as are the other reasons of pay etc.

  5. Sandra Dawson Guest

    These men deserve everything. How would you like being on a plane without a seasoned pilot. Delta has the BEST pilots, most of them are military trained. They deserve a new contract !

    1. Guest Guest

      The pilots who are women deserve it, too. :)

  6. Steve Guest

    Hi Steve,

    Comparing paramedics to pilots is not a reasonable comparison, nor are other job comparisons. How many annual inflationary pay increases have you had in the last three years? Pilots have had zero. As for your comparison on pay it's apples to oranges.

    Your comparison is simple and ignorant of the true responsibility of a pilot. Here is your comparison laid out, it's not to diminish paramedics, but to show your flawed comparison.

    ...

    Hi Steve,

    Comparing paramedics to pilots is not a reasonable comparison, nor are other job comparisons. How many annual inflationary pay increases have you had in the last three years? Pilots have had zero. As for your comparison on pay it's apples to oranges.

    Your comparison is simple and ignorant of the true responsibility of a pilot. Here is your comparison laid out, it's not to diminish paramedics, but to show your flawed comparison.

    Years of training for paramedics = 6 months? Responsibility of paramedics, number of people per hour relying on a paramedics care, 2, 4? When things go wrong with an error made by a paramedic 1 person dies?

    Years of training for pilots average 7 years to achieve a degree and minimum hours for entry level job. Responsibility of a pilot, extremely dynamic environment, complex equipment, about 600 people a day. When things go wrong with an error made by a pilot 200 people die?

    I'm not sure you comprehend the responsibility involved, based on your simple, comparison.

    How much do surgeons make? Orderlies, paramedics, nurses.. should we just level the pay for all of them? It's an ignorant comparison, if you want to make a comparison, at least compare a surgeon to a pilot, but then understand that number of people affected by any one mistake is vastly different.

    Maybe we should just eliminate all pay disparities in the USA, ignore the personal sacrifice and skill it takes to achieve that career, ignore the responsibility and gravity of the job, ignore all of it and pay everyone a set wage? Maybe you don't understand the capitalist system we have in the United State, supply and demand, etc?

    So what is your argument?

    1. Delta Lynda Guest

      Thank you for outlining what a pilot did and continues to do to be certified in their career which is our lives in their hands. There is no comparison to having hundreds of people even at a young age sometimes to take on this level of responsibility. Thank them for their taking you were you want to go. Without a pay raise in 3 years and flying to the maximum flight times allowed.

  7. Kevin Guest

    They fly us place to place safely and at all hours take care of your pilots give them the raise that they deserve thank you

  8. JET Guest

    Some police are paid 4&500K for doing much of anything

  9. Logan Guest

    Flew Delta twice lat week. Neither pilot was wearing their hat.

  10. Raleigh Truitt New Member

    Hey Ben - what is it about a long and eloquent comment I made on this thread that it had to be taken down? Tell me, so that I can work on changing my ways. I like to contribute.

    1. Raleigh Truitt New Member

      Ben - this is getting weirder. The above comment shoould have come out under my User. What happened there?

  11. Hans Roland Guest

    Read the article and skimmed the comments...nobody (including author) is talking about the BIG issue surrounding shortages and flight cancellations....the JAB.

    An unusually high number of pilots (across all airlines) have died, seriously injured OR are injured enough to flunk annual physicals due to the forced jab. Same with FA's, either died or injured.

    Freedom Flyers has a growing number of followers and lawsuits in the pipeline, all surrounding the forced jab.

    ...

    Read the article and skimmed the comments...nobody (including author) is talking about the BIG issue surrounding shortages and flight cancellations....the JAB.

    An unusually high number of pilots (across all airlines) have died, seriously injured OR are injured enough to flunk annual physicals due to the forced jab. Same with FA's, either died or injured.

    Freedom Flyers has a growing number of followers and lawsuits in the pipeline, all surrounding the forced jab.

    I have emailed CEO of Delta about 6 times over past near 2 years about his bad decisions surrounding Covid.

    Pilots want more $$ but the shortage/cancelations are for other reasons...

    That is the subject for real journalism....

    1. jetjock64 Guest

      @HansRoland. The reason nobody is talking about the "jab" being a factor is that there's nothing to it. Almost no one is getting sick from it, let alone dying--I checked. I don't know where you're getting your news but your sources are flunking.

    2. Don'tbsabser Guest

      Haven't been to one single "jab" funeral. Been to a few covid ones because they didn't get the jab.

  12. Josiah Sanders Guest

    I was on a flight coming from Cincinnati Ohio on yesterday July 2 2022 to LaGuardia airport. With being super happy to see a totally all women’s crew. The pilots did not have hats at all with them. Also delta needs to decrease there amount of flights due to them not having enough workers.

  13. Douglas Frost DeNunzio Guest

    Hopefully the Delta pilots will get what they want in this contract.

  14. A real american Guest

    Try making 30-40,000 a year. Greedy whining people. Try on someone elses shoes before you cry about maintaining your Mercedes and million dollar homes. Or maybe stop spending so much. Humble yourselves.

    1. Tini Guest

      I can’t think of a well paid profession where people have to pay more dues than airline pilots. Most airline pilots start at absurdly low salaries and stay there for multiple years.

    2. Nicole Guest

      That's true... Starting out fresh out of flight school looks as frustrating as day labor - showing up, not knowing if you have a job or not. Pilots aren't asking for that much... And, I can only imagine the industry is skimming everywhere they can to save money. Would hate to have to be in a Union, but I understand why this is a critical move for pilots and staff. Depleting the workforce because of...

      That's true... Starting out fresh out of flight school looks as frustrating as day labor - showing up, not knowing if you have a job or not. Pilots aren't asking for that much... And, I can only imagine the industry is skimming everywhere they can to save money. Would hate to have to be in a Union, but I understand why this is a critical move for pilots and staff. Depleting the workforce because of vaccine status is a self-inflicted wound. Pilots are smart to consider early retirement. And, they are worth every dollar.

    3. Dom Guest

      We did try that. At the beginning of our careers. 30-40k? That would have been a raise. Try $18k per year, flying an old turboprop.

      Oh, and when you switch airlines- back to year one pay.

  15. TellingItHowItIs Guest

    Take off your hat. Wow. Unions come up with some of the silliest, grade schools antics to back up their efforts to be a thorn in the side of American business. ‍♂️

    1. Jeff Guest

      They do these “silly, grade school antics” because the Railway Labor Act ties our hands with severe penalties/fines if we engage in any activities labeled as “self help” without the expressed approval of the government appointed mediator. (Who never choose to authorize such a major disruption in transport) Why do you think a single airline employee group has went on strike in forever?

  16. Tim Guest

    Delta pilots are the only dumb shits who still wear the hats. They think they are still on a mission over Saigon

  17. Ross Guest

    White man, balding head? Must be a pilot.

  18. DHH Guest

    For perspective to statements above of pilots being over paid….
    Pay for a Four year college degree, pay upwards of $100,000 for all your pilot certificates, work for substandard wages for years at commuters or risk your life flying in the military protecting everyone in the US and their freedoms.
    To finally after many 5-20 years building flight time to finally be hired by the major airlines.
    Be subject to first year...

    For perspective to statements above of pilots being over paid….
    Pay for a Four year college degree, pay upwards of $100,000 for all your pilot certificates, work for substandard wages for years at commuters or risk your life flying in the military protecting everyone in the US and their freedoms.
    To finally after many 5-20 years building flight time to finally be hired by the major airlines.
    Be subject to first year at training and probationary pay, every year subject to the smallest health / physical issue possibly causing you to loose your ability to earn a living, and when you do get to the airline earning a living you are providing a safe flight for 120 - 300 passengers each flight up to 5 flights a day (120 x 5= 600 passengers safely transported daily).
    Think about the number of times you and your loved ones have been safely delivered to your business location or vacation destination. I fully realize that you are valued passengers and have paid for an airline ticket. Please do no loose perspective who is transported you and your family safely there at 500mph at 35,000 feet above the earth with a take off and landing at each end. And there are SO MANY more variables in that SIMPLE flight as you sit back and relax and either are able to work on your business or enjoy a movie.

    1. Lynne Guest

      Right on! AND when Airlines were doing all they could from going under after 911, some pilots surrendered their pension fund to keep their job. They still had families to feed, college tuition to pay along with all expenses for their home. Now all the big wigs pay themselves huge wages and bonuses but they won't come to an agreement on raises for those who work hard so they can collect those big checks! If...

      Right on! AND when Airlines were doing all they could from going under after 911, some pilots surrendered their pension fund to keep their job. They still had families to feed, college tuition to pay along with all expenses for their home. Now all the big wigs pay themselves huge wages and bonuses but they won't come to an agreement on raises for those who work hard so they can collect those big checks! If you're seeing canceled flights now wait and see how many you see if they strike or start calling in sick.

    2. Delta Lynda Guest

      Not nice. Try doing the work they did to be there. They make $30k a year for years when they start to fly. Get a certification as they do and continually and all the time then say they are overpaid. I think flying is not for you

  19. Tmeyer Guest

    Think about the mechanics as well because they are still not even close to compensation they had before 9/11/2001. So to me pilots are paid enough already and scheduling is the only issue I see here.

  20. Mary Guest

    I fly Delta up to five times a year and I can honestly say I can't recall ever seeing a pilot even wearing a hat. While appreciate these wardrobe signs of silent protest, I am not really sure this hat's off campaign will evev be noticed.

    1. Lynn Guest

      Delta management is very adamant about us wearing hats. They are the only group of people likely to notice. We are the only remaining airline in the U.S. that requires hats for pilots. This is a basically a benign form of civil protest on our part. We don’t want to do anything that inconveniences the customer.

  21. Kent Guest

    I’m a well paid (some may say overpaid although I’ll always say I deserve more) corporate executive. For reference, my family and I typically travel via private jet. It’s not my fault if society deems me more important than pilots, teachers, paramedics, policemen, and social workers. I’ve worked hard for getting to where I am but I acknowledge that I’ve received ample help and support to get to get I am. It’s just the sad...

    I’m a well paid (some may say overpaid although I’ll always say I deserve more) corporate executive. For reference, my family and I typically travel via private jet. It’s not my fault if society deems me more important than pilots, teachers, paramedics, policemen, and social workers. I’ve worked hard for getting to where I am but I acknowledge that I’ve received ample help and support to get to get I am. It’s just the sad reality of the world in which we live. Therefore, I applaud anyone seeking a bigger piece of the pie. Advocate for yourself cause no one else cares. This is capitalism.

  22. Alex Guest

    I could care less what pilots make if the airlines were not heavily subsidized with my tax money. The job market is currently at all-time high and it's the worst time for the airlines to renegotiate contracts and they should be dragging their feet as much as possible. If they do raise payroll and continue spending cash the way they do, I can only hope next time they're on the brink of bankruptcy, the government tells them to pound sand.

  23. Driver8 Guest

    Jetjock...sure guy, you're better than Jesus. Everyone else is of no consequence in their little jobs. What a pompous @ss.

    1. jetjock64 Guest

      @ Driver8. As my post was apparenlty pulled, I suppose it was not popular with others either. Sorry for any offense--except for those disparaging pilots for what they earn. 'Nuff said.

  24. glenn t Diamond

    Oh no! Pilots not wearing hats on duty! What more evidence do you need that America is going to hell in a handbasket! lol.

  25. Steve Guest

    According to the BLS, the average annual salary for a paramedic is just over $38k. This is a group that puts themselves in harms way and provides lifesaving care to the public while working shifts that range from 8-72 hours in length. While pilots are critical, I think (on this one) they need to shut up and say thank you for what they do have instead of complaining that they don’t have more.

    1. Charles Member

      Paramedics are underpaid. Pay paramedics more. Paramedics being underpaid doesn't mean other professions should be paid less.

    2. John Guest

      Steve, no doubt paramedics are underpaid. I’ll never argue that that profession does not receive enough compensation. But you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to being a professional pilot in the airline industry. You need to educate yourself before you cast judgement.

    3. CONFIG 1+F Guest

      Ok sure, then EMTs should fight for more money, QOL and retirement, instead of sitting on your hands complaining about more compensation. Don’t forget airline pilots have the lives of 50-300 people in their hands at one time and we often fly 2-4 legs a day over the course of 1-4 days.

    4. Your Pilot Guest

      The average pilot salary in the US is approximately $120k per year. Though I can’t blame a layman for not understanding the intricacies of pilot pay, the salaries upwards of $300k quoted in this article ONLY apply to pilots working as Captains, during the last years of their careers, on the largest equipment types. For pilots who don’t meet any or all of these criteria (for example, they are First Officers, of which upwards of...

      The average pilot salary in the US is approximately $120k per year. Though I can’t blame a layman for not understanding the intricacies of pilot pay, the salaries upwards of $300k quoted in this article ONLY apply to pilots working as Captains, during the last years of their careers, on the largest equipment types. For pilots who don’t meet any or all of these criteria (for example, they are First Officers, of which upwards of 65% of pilots at any airline are, by default), or if they work on the little B737 not the big B777, and/or they are in anything but the last years of their careers) they are most definitely NOT earning those top dollars. Many pilots NEVER have the opportunity to fly the biggest aircraft, and the vast majority “medical out (ie disqualify) before they can build the number of years seniority it takes to be eligible for top salaries. If a pilot changes companies, from United to Delta or from Skywest to American, for example, they always start at the bottom of the pay scale, the seniority list, and on the smallest equipment in the least desirable base. This often means having to commute from one’s home in say one city cross country to a junior pilot base in a place like NYC or SFO. Hotel stays before 5am reports and after 11pm releases are paid for by the pilot, NOT the company. If an employer goes out of business, and a pilot is forced to get a job at another employer, they start from year one pay again irrespective of how many years experience they may have on the industry. This may be hard to believe but it’s a fact.

      When I started my first commercial flying job operating a 50 seat regional jet I made $19/hr and keep in mind that the FAA regulates the max flying hours in a month to 100 and in a year to 1000. Yes that means that’s $19k salary per year, maximum. Pilots only get paid solely when the airplane is under power, ie door closed taxiing or in flight. All the time spent commuting to work (to another state from one’s home state), all of the time checking weather, flight plans, pre-flighting the aircraft itself to ensure it is safe and airworthy, all boarding and deplaning, and all time spent in hotels away from family 18+ days a month is wholly unpaid. It costs upwards of $100k to earn the credentials to be minimally employable as a commercial pilot in the smallest regional aircraft (that $19/hr job.)

      I’m not sure how an EMT “puts themselves in harms way” any more or less than a pilot, but I don’t think it’s a fair comparison in the least. Airline pilots do not get to go home every night, we must pay for food on the road including food while in the airplane while working (crew meals are only provided on flights over about 5 and a half hours in length, or ONLY on flights LONGER than a typical US transcon and per diem is roughly $50/day) we don’t have access to fridges, healthy foods, or the luxury of going to bed and waking up at roughly the same time every day. In fact we must regularly force ourselves to stay awake all night long, and to fly till midnight thirty one night and at 5am a day or two later. All while ensuring the flight is operated safely. Despite people yelling at each other about masks, intoxicated people, in-flight medical emergencies sometimes in the middle of the ocean, passengers verbally and physically abusing both flight attendants and pilots, ATC delays that affect us too, daily thunderstorm avoidance, winter weather with short runways, etc etc. It’s not a simple job and it requires constant regular training and study to be ready to deal with an engine failure, fire, or low fuel situation due to weather at any given time.

      And yes after losing our pensions and taking 50% pay cuts in bankruptcy, our wages adjusted for inflation are far far less than thirty years ago. At my company we have not received any pay raises in 5+ years and there has been no adjustment for inflation.

      While much of the US workforce was able to work from home during covid, I showed up at the airport every day in another state and operated my flights in the midst of an uncertain health pandemic.

      Just some food for thought as you consider whether your pilots are hard-working employees who deserve a raise.

  26. Guest Guest

    The biggest requests from the Delta pilots have little to do with pay. They are scheduling and job security. Although keeping up with inflation is definitely something in mind, pay is not a top request.

    We don't want to do a transcontinental red-eye flight, then sit for 3 hours, then deadhead crammed into a middle seat in the cabin and then finally layover to then switch to an early morning departure the next morning...

    The biggest requests from the Delta pilots have little to do with pay. They are scheduling and job security. Although keeping up with inflation is definitely something in mind, pay is not a top request.

    We don't want to do a transcontinental red-eye flight, then sit for 3 hours, then deadhead crammed into a middle seat in the cabin and then finally layover to then switch to an early morning departure the next morning (which basically means giving up on an entire night's worth of sleep), which is followed by near minimum allowable rest for the next 2 nights (real schedule). Deadhead segments don't count against maximum duty limits for pilots in the US if at the end of a duty period, and there is no increase in rest requirements regardless of how long that goes.

    We don't want schedules built right to the limits to where even a small delay on the ground or in the air means we are now not legal to do our next flight, or continually swapping between day and night flying in a single trip.

    We certainly don't want our phones ringing at all hours on our days off asking if we will come in because there is no slack in the schedule.

    It's not about pay. We understand inflation and want to maintain purchasing power like everyone else, but it isn't the top request.

  27. Kiwi Guest

    In 2008 I was fired after 10 years of service as a pilot with Hawaiian Airlines for not wearing my hat. (Yep… true story)

    That was enough for me, I left the US and moved to New Zealand where I now live.

    Thanks, Hawaiian Air!

    1. jetjock64 Guest

      @Kiwi - there's got to be more than what you are telling us about your firing from an airline. No US airline that I know of would that without there having been some kind of a history. Why don't you 'fess up. . .?

  28. dander Guest

    Seriously its not that hard to fly a plane, and the wages are out of line. I get the whole arguement about safery but its a lot of automation involved in flying and many accidents planes are flown with pilots with 8000 or more hours flying. Lets raise the retirement age and lower the hours required to become a pilot.

    1. Mike Sierra Guest

      Take into account one years of schooling (with no income), to the tune of $100k, which then allows you to work for a regional carrier to build experience, for less than 75k/yr. Then you have four chances every year to lose your career: two in-depth medicals, and two check flights. If you flunk your medical, your livelihood with its $100k investment as well as two meager wasted years is now history. Welcome to Walmart.

    2. DrJones Guest

      O think what you're thinking is "it's not that hard to get in a plane and make it go..." I'd say you're right. But pilots aren't just paid for holding the stick, which you pointed out is often done by automation. Pilots pay comes from an insane log of knowledge waiting to be drawn on so the plane goes when there's a hundred other planes within a few miles of each other (most ppl cant...

      O think what you're thinking is "it's not that hard to get in a plane and make it go..." I'd say you're right. But pilots aren't just paid for holding the stick, which you pointed out is often done by automation. Pilots pay comes from an insane log of knowledge waiting to be drawn on so the plane goes when there's a hundred other planes within a few miles of each other (most ppl cant evrn do that in a car!), while there's terrible weather, when the fuel guy or load guys or dispatch makes a critical mistake and the pilots are the last in line to catch all of them, when you're in the middle of the pacific and an engine starts on fire or a passenger has a heart attack. Additionally, all of this is expected to be handled properly equally at noon or 2am, on Monday or Saturday or christmas or your anniversary, in the US or in China while the unintelligible controller is saying "no turns" but there's a giant storm or mountain in the way and you havent been home for 10 days. Flying a plane might be easy, just not when you take the real dynamic environment into account.

    3. Lynn Guest

      When was the last major fatal airline accident in the U.S. involving a pilot with 8000 or more hours? Over two decades ago. The most recent major accident in the U.S. (Colgan in 2009) is exactly what caused the current minimum hour requirement to be implemented. Automation only goes so far, and over-reliance on automation is a major factor in aircraft accidents.

    4. DHH Guest

      Dander
      Pure ignorance!!!!
      You need to go apply your statement in a lot of foreign countries 3rd world and other.
      If you are staring at a tray table you have no idea the complexity even with automation and the human factor intervention that occurs that also prevent many accidents that would also happen with pure automation.
      There are a lot of deaths with auto drive cars and that is basically one dimensional

    5. Jeff Guest

      What airline do you fly for?

    6. Guest Guest

      The automation isn’t good enough yet. You have no idea how often, on a daily basis, pilots have to click off the autopilot, hand-fly, readjust, or correct something the computer flaked out on. You’d be amazed at how necessary a pilot’s skill really is. When the approach electronics crap out on final approach during the worst weather, you’ll be happy your pilot has developed those skills. Also, if it was so easy to fly an...

      The automation isn’t good enough yet. You have no idea how often, on a daily basis, pilots have to click off the autopilot, hand-fly, readjust, or correct something the computer flaked out on. You’d be amazed at how necessary a pilot’s skill really is. When the approach electronics crap out on final approach during the worst weather, you’ll be happy your pilot has developed those skills. Also, if it was so easy to fly an airplane, everyone would do it and the job wouldn’t command the salary it does.

  29. Creditian Guest

    A.K.A. ticket price is driving up because airlines need to pay more to their pilots but not pay out less dividends. Therefore, the only solution is to raise ticket prices. Inflation is knocking everyone's doorbell now.

    1. D3kingg Guest

      @Creditian

      No. Airlines , pilots , and corporations are not to blame for ticket prices and inflation. This administration is the biggest failure in the history of the United States. Oil prices and inflation began as soon as Brandon took office well before the Putin invasion when he started turning off and canceling oil pipelines. Now they want to blame it on Delta. Deflect and blame. When in doubt just lie.

    2. JDee Diamond

      So, our petrol prices in Australia have increased significantly in Australia & it's somehow because of the US President? You sound like an en economic, Trumpist moron...

    3. Desantisthestalkinghorse Guest

      The level of stupidity in your statement is breathtaking. Your projection of deflect and blame and lie as a primary response is exactly the trump playbook.

      Your mango madman wanted to overthrow our government. So many of his supporters are simplistic morons who think they are patriots while attacking our police. Get stuffed.

      Global economics are not under the control of ANY US president. Biden hasn’t closed any US pipeline. Get your head...

      The level of stupidity in your statement is breathtaking. Your projection of deflect and blame and lie as a primary response is exactly the trump playbook.

      Your mango madman wanted to overthrow our government. So many of his supporters are simplistic morons who think they are patriots while attacking our police. Get stuffed.

      Global economics are not under the control of ANY US president. Biden hasn’t closed any US pipeline. Get your head out of your ass.

      Keep Mike Pence alive.

  30. Andy Diamond

    I'm really surprised to see how high mainline salaries have gone in the US. In Europe, most Captains are still below USD 200k, the very top ones between 200 and 250k. And cost of living isn't exactly cheap in the hub cities like London, Paris, Zurich ...

    1. Mike Sierra Guest

      Try taking retirement and medical (especially retirement medical) benefits along into the equation. At most US carriers, managers in the 00's raked in huge bonuses for terminating the company retirement plans ... there is no real federal pension, and the meager Social Secutity system is just waiting to be abolished by the next administration around the corner... What you save is what you have.

    2. Alex Guest

      Eh.. all people in the US are in this boat. Why should pilots be somehow privileged?

      And btw, projected social security income for highly-paid individuals who max out their SSI contribution is higher than public pension in any European country. Whether it will actually be paid or not, it's a big question on both continents.

    3. Jetiquette Guest

      The US should allow foreign pilots to apply and work here. They will go through the same training process once they're hired. That will bring salaries back down to reality.

  31. BookLvr Gold

    I'm kind of surprised to see so many comments resentful of pilots for earning what the market will bear. If they can command $300,000-$450,000 a year, more power to them. I want the airlines to hire and retain the best people they can for getting me to my destination safely and comfortably.

    The pilots may not be fighting just for a raise in salary. Working conditions matter too. From what I've read, it sounds...

    I'm kind of surprised to see so many comments resentful of pilots for earning what the market will bear. If they can command $300,000-$450,000 a year, more power to them. I want the airlines to hire and retain the best people they can for getting me to my destination safely and comfortably.

    The pilots may not be fighting just for a raise in salary. Working conditions matter too. From what I've read, it sounds like they have been pressured to work huge amounts of overtime due to the pilot shortage. I imagine the pilots conducting what looks like an informational picket would be happy to answer any questions.

    Unions are not just for lower paid professions. Major league baseball has a union too. The minimum salary for baseball players is even higher than the pilots' salary.

  32. JetSetFly Guest

    Where’s my popcorn? This comment section is getting juicer by the minute!

  33. Jetiquette Guest

    "For example, with American’s proposed new contract, senior Boeing 737 captains would earn a base salary of $340,000 per year, while senior Boeing 777 captains would earn a base salary of $425,000 per year."

    Holy overpaid Batman. American won't be making much profit for a while with those inflated salaries.

    1. Tini Guest

      Do you say your physician is overpaid? What about a software engineer?

      The average 777 Captain has been honing their craft for at least 30 years to safely transport hundreds of people around the world. The market has shown them to be worth it!

    2. Jetiquette Guest

      The average pilot makes 2-3x more than a physician or software engineer and their jobs are 80% autopilot. Terrible comparison lol.

    3. stmv Guest

      Median pay for a pilot in the US was $130,440 in 2020 as per US News. "The average annual doctor's salary is around $224,190" as per policyadvice.net. The average salary for a software engineer is $93,963 per year. Please argue from facts instead of pulling numbers out of ... thin air.

    4. Jan Guest

      Overpaid: tiktokers/OnlyFans/Instagram influencers, professional athletes, Hollywood elites, business and government officials
      Not overpaid: doctors, airline pilots

      Let’s put things in perspective, there are other “professional” jobs out there to bitch about

    5. Ron Guest

      While you are at it, take a look at the pay scales for the junior pilots, because that is where most pilots fall in the pay tables for most of their careers. Most pilots never reach the "senior" status, so they never reach those highest pay scales. And then take a look at the schedules of the junior pilots. How would you like to work 20 (long) days/month, with the days off scattered in such...

      While you are at it, take a look at the pay scales for the junior pilots, because that is where most pilots fall in the pay tables for most of their careers. Most pilots never reach the "senior" status, so they never reach those highest pay scales. And then take a look at the schedules of the junior pilots. How would you like to work 20 (long) days/month, with the days off scattered in such a manner that you can only get home 2 or three times/month for a day or two before you are out the door again? And we haven't yet gotten to issues like commuting to/from domicile, (unpaid time), fatigue, (sleep disruptions are common with the lifestyle), poor (or completely missed) meals, the risk of losing your job entirely due to medical issues, (you are aware that pilot's undergo a flight physical every 6 months, right?), ongoing flight checks, (any one of which if failed will lead to the loss of your job), and, to cap it off, if your company shrinks and furloughs you it will be unpaid time off. If you are able to find another job you will start all over at the bottom of that company's seniority list, regardless of your experience/qualification coming door. (I know pilots who've been through this multiple times...). I could go on, but by now maybe you are getting a little better picture of the reality that is the life of the average airline pilot and of the risk/reward involved in staying in this career.

  34. Patriot Guest

    Jojo is a trumpian idiot and a jealous, angry loser.
    Do us all a favor and don’t fly a**hole, or better yet, leave this beloved country and crawl back under a rock.

    1. Jetiquette Guest

      He has valid points lol. US pilots are extremely overpaid and the consumer will pay the price with higher ticket prices.

    2. jetjock64 Guest

      Overpaid? By what measure? The yardstick of your little job, which probably required no more than just an average IQ, nor years of training and preparation in the trenches earning little better than minimum wages, nor years of earning just an average professional compensation while awaiting the mantle of responsibility for keeping hundreds of passengers alive and safe while battling challenging weather conditions in and out of foreign airports, with federal regulators and management looking...

      Overpaid? By what measure? The yardstick of your little job, which probably required no more than just an average IQ, nor years of training and preparation in the trenches earning little better than minimum wages, nor years of earning just an average professional compensation while awaiting the mantle of responsibility for keeping hundreds of passengers alive and safe while battling challenging weather conditions in and out of foreign airports, with federal regulators and management looking down your neck for every move you make and flight decision you take, scheduling that would undoubtedly fatigue mortals not possessing the ambition, persistence, drive, and dedication it takes to do this highly challenging job? I didn't think so. Three college degrees, including a JD, were basically a cinch compared to the everyday demands of learning, and keeping fresh, my aviation skills, knowledge, and expertise. That's principally what accounts for the money, if you'd like to know.

    3. AC Guest

      Everybody whines about what people are paid. Frankly there are jobs that are underpaid (teachers, police, etc.) but NO JOB is "overpaid". People in any profession are paid what the market demands. That can be a CEO, actor, musician, athlete, doctor or pilot. If the position isn't bringing value to the organization (or people see the position as worthwhile if self employed or paid for activities like endorsements) then they don't make the money. You...

      Everybody whines about what people are paid. Frankly there are jobs that are underpaid (teachers, police, etc.) but NO JOB is "overpaid". People in any profession are paid what the market demands. That can be a CEO, actor, musician, athlete, doctor or pilot. If the position isn't bringing value to the organization (or people see the position as worthwhile if self employed or paid for activities like endorsements) then they don't make the money. You can be jealous of pro athletes making over $50 million a year, actors making close to $100 million some years or CEOs making tens of millions but if they weren't perceived as "worth it" they wouldn't have that income - BTW you could NEVER do their job so please quit the whining.

    4. CHRIS Guest

      How many blown checkrides at HA?

    5. DHH Guest

      I would suggest Jetiquette that you start driving to all your vacations and business meetings….drive cross country be exhausted and spend an hour in business meetings cut them short and hop back in your vehicle for the next 4 days expense of gas and hotels and time value opportunity costs and good luck with overseas travel….driving that is.
      Safe travels

  35. Jan Guest

    Since they are directly responsible for thousands of lives every week, I say they deserve a high salary. Suits and execs on the other hand…

  36. Tim Dunn Diamond

    I don't think anyone other than Delta management will even notice or cares; most pilots don't wear hats. Wearing a hat indoors in the summer isn't exactly a hill I think anyone would die on.

    The bigger question is how wise it is for airline pilots to picket right before a major holiday which was known to potentially have operational issues; turns out the rate of cancellation for all US airlines so far this weekend...

    I don't think anyone other than Delta management will even notice or cares; most pilots don't wear hats. Wearing a hat indoors in the summer isn't exactly a hill I think anyone would die on.

    The bigger question is how wise it is for airline pilots to picket right before a major holiday which was known to potentially have operational issues; turns out the rate of cancellation for all US airlines so far this weekend is far lower than last summer and only slightly higher than pre-covid. Customers that do have cancellled or delayed flights are probably not moved by seeing labor trying to give a message to management regardless of whose responsible for the cancellations and delays.

    Delta's payment of $10k in denied boarding compensation appears to be getting more press and might actually stimulate bookings if people think they are getting air transportation and playing the lottery.

    based on the picture in the auditorium that is posted in the article, Delta either has a disproportionately large number of bald pilots or they all sat at the front of the room.

  37. JOJO Guest

    Why do you think the future is going to be dark? The president was just on TV telling how great and strong the economy is and we all should be great full.
    As for the union fly boys crying for a raise on $325000k per year. They can get bent

    1. JOJO sucks Guest

      Ahh, yes! Because you have the skills to do what pilots do, right? Do you demand that your doctor make less money? Or the pharmacist?

      Looks like your a jealous loser who probably never had the balls or ability to do what pilots do. Let me guess, maybe a pilot boned. your wife and she liked it?

    2. Jetiquette Guest

      Doctors and pharmacists makes considerably less than pilots while doing far more complex, and important, work.

    3. Mach2 Guest

      A doctor screws up 1 person dies, a pilot screws up 100s of people die.

  38. Mantis Guest

    So glad unions are fighting the good fight for the poor, working class. We must stand together and fight for...$450k a year?!? Ok, this is just basically legalized extortion. And guess who is going to be paying their salaries? Us.

    1. Raleigh Truitt New Member

      What's going on? As soon as I hit Post, the screen goes straight back to the thread.

    2. tm_smile Member

      Capitalists getting angry about a capitalist arrangement

    3. Mantis Guest

      You're an idiot. Unions are not capitalist, they are communist leaches. Dismantle the unions and let each pilot negotiate their salary, like most of us do, not extort an entire country's transportation system by demanding way over the market rate for their labor.

    4. Raleigh Truitt New Member

      The "market rate" is the market rate, meaning the prevailing wage in an industry at the present time. And, unions don't distort markets; they make markets reflect the equities brought to the market by workers. Plus, I'm not seeing many union people living in communes, so they can't be communists.

    5. Dr.Jones Guest

      Well "us" doesn't have to pay their salaries. It's easy, just don't fly, then you don't pay. Also, don't buy anything fresh that's from more than a couple hundred miles away, cause that requires airplanes. Oh, and don't ship anything next day or order anything next day, as that requires airplanes. Definitely dont end up needing an organ transplant! Hmmm, guess it's your choice if that stuff is important to you, but it sounds like...

      Well "us" doesn't have to pay their salaries. It's easy, just don't fly, then you don't pay. Also, don't buy anything fresh that's from more than a couple hundred miles away, cause that requires airplanes. Oh, and don't ship anything next day or order anything next day, as that requires airplanes. Definitely dont end up needing an organ transplant! Hmmm, guess it's your choice if that stuff is important to you, but it sounds like it's not....damn right "us" pay the salaries, and if you put much thought into, you'd prob be happy paying rather than living without pilots and what they do for your lifestyle.

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Guest Guest

The biggest requests from the Delta pilots have little to do with pay. They are scheduling and job security. Although keeping up with inflation is definitely something in mind, pay is not a top request. We don't want to do a transcontinental red-eye flight, then sit for 3 hours, then deadhead crammed into a middle seat in the cabin and then finally layover to then switch to an early morning departure the next morning (which basically means giving up on an entire night's worth of sleep), which is followed by near minimum allowable rest for the next 2 nights (real schedule). Deadhead segments don't count against maximum duty limits for pilots in the US if at the end of a duty period, and there is no increase in rest requirements regardless of how long that goes. We don't want schedules built right to the limits to where even a small delay on the ground or in the air means we are now not legal to do our next flight, or continually swapping between day and night flying in a single trip. We certainly don't want our phones ringing at all hours on our days off asking if we will come in because there is no slack in the schedule. It's not about pay. We understand inflation and want to maintain purchasing power like everyone else, but it isn't the top request.

5
Steve Guest

According to the BLS, the average annual salary for a paramedic is just over $38k. This is a group that puts themselves in harms way and provides lifesaving care to the public while working shifts that range from 8-72 hours in length. While pilots are critical, I think (on this one) they need to shut up and say thank you for what they do have instead of complaining that they don’t have more.

3
Jan Guest

Overpaid: tiktokers/OnlyFans/Instagram influencers, professional athletes, Hollywood elites, business and government officials Not overpaid: doctors, airline pilots Let’s put things in perspective, there are other “professional” jobs out there to bitch about

3
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