Several weeks ago, British Airways launched a new route to Florence. Unfortunately the route is proving operationally unreliable so far, for a pretty unusual reason.
In this post:
The problem with Florence Airport
Not only is Florence an incredibly popular destination with tourists, but it’s also one of the gateways to Tuscany, which is as hot as ever to visit. Fortunately the region is served by two international airports — Florence and Pisa.
There’s only one (not so small) problem — Florence Airport has major operational limitations:
- The runway is “only” 5,118 feet long, making it one of the shorter runways to be used by mainline jets
- The bigger issue is that traffic can only flow in one direction, regardless of the winds; that’s due to the high terrain around the airport
There are all kinds of operational considerations that impact takeoff performance, including winds, temperature, takeoff weight, visibility, and more. This is an area where Florence Airport really struggles. When you combine a short runway with unfavorable winds (and no ability to depart in the other direction), any service to Florence Airport by larger aircraft is incredibly fragile.
That brings us to British Airways’ service to the airport…
British Airways’ operational issues in Florence
On April 16, 2023, British Airways launched a new daily service between London Heathrow (LHR) and Florence (FLR), which was supposed to operate with the following schedule:
BA524 London to Florence departing 8:10AM arriving 11:20AM
BA525 Florence to London departing 12:10PM arriving 1:25PM
The 757-mile flight is operated by the Airbus A320neo, which is British Airways’ Heathrow-based aircraft that’s most capable of operating this service.
The route started off on a bad note, with the first two days of service not exactly operating as planned. On April 16, the inaugural flight to Florence did okay, arriving 19 minutes behind schedule, at 11:39AM.
The return flight was a different story. Due to some moderate winds in Florence (nothing out of the ordinary), the plane couldn’t carry enough fuel to fly all the way back to London. So it instead first flew to Pisa, only 42 miles away, to refuel. The plane took off from Florence at 1:02PM, landed in Pisa at 1:19PM, departed Pisa at 2:33PM, and arrived in London at 3:28PM, over two hours behind schedule.
The following day, British Airways didn’t even attempt to fly to Florence. Instead the airline operated this flight to and from Pisa, and the airline sent passengers between the two airports by bus.
So, how has the service evolved since then? Was that just a fluke the first couple of days due to especially unfavorable conditions? I think it’s interesting to take an updated look at this service, especially over the past week or so:
- From May 10 through May 17, 2023, the flight operated as scheduled exactly zero times; rather in each case, British Airways operated this flight to Pisa Airport rather than Florence Airport, and didn’t even attempt to land in Florence
- On May 18, 2023, the flight operated to & from Florence, though around two hours late
- On May 19, 2023, the flight was canceled altogether
So it’s clear that this wasn’t just some fluke over a couple of days, but rather this is going to be at least a semi-consistent issue for British Airways. It will be hard to operate this route reliably, especially with a full payload. And while winds might be an issue right now, much hotter temperatures in the peak of summer could also prove to be problematic.
I’m also curious to see how this is handled when it comes to EU261 compensation, in situation where passengers misconnect. I’m sure British Airways will claim that these operational issues are due to weather, and therefore outside of the carrier’s control. But that’s also a pretty disingenuous argument when other airlines are able to operate their service much more reliably. The issue, really, is that British Airways doesn’t have smaller aircraft based at Heathrow.
Bottom line
British Airways has launched a new daily flight between London Heathrow and Florence, which is a great new link to Tuscany. The issue is that Florence Airport has a short runway combined with challenging operational requirements. Unless weather conditions are perfect, this route will face ongoing issues.
British Airways can’t seem to operate this route as scheduled, and for the past nine days, the flight hasn’t operated as planned once. For seven days it operated to Pisa instead, one day it was canceled, and one day it was a couple of hours late. I’m not sure why British Airways doesn’t just pull the plug on this route, because this obviously isn’t sustainable.
What do you make of British Airways’ Florence issues?
Well over a year later and this debacle continues....
Buy not content with letting down LHR customers BA have also introduced an intermittent (not daily) service using their city flyer Embraers... They coped with the shorter runway better BUT BA then densified the cabins, increasing the take off weight and...
Purely focused on profit even when a service is clearly not viable, BA are Best Avoided whenever there's a choice.
Not sure if BA still fly to Florence from Edinburgh as we had a horror show on our return to Edinburgh.
45 passengers were bumped of the flight complete with bags (half the plane).
Couldn't get another flight for 2 days. Bussed to a hotel / motel in industrial estate in Pisa.
Flight back 2 days later left full but with no baggage. All to do with short runway and slight winds.
Bagage arrived home 16 days later.
BA did compensate fully on the 2nd offer.
BA refused compensation for a 7 hour delay out of Florence last September. I went to CEDR loaded with data. Instead of defending my claim BA agreed to settle. Am I the first person to successfully claim delay compensation for the new Florence route under Ec261?
I was on the flight on 9th September and can endorse the comments below. 17 customers of One Traveller have made a claim for compensation and the first has been refused by6 BA citing 'adverse weather conditions'. I intend to pursue this further through the CAA as British Airways clearly know the problems and sent a fully booked airbus knowing that it was unlikely to take off on a warm (34 degrees clear dry day)
...I was on the flight on 9th September and can endorse the comments below. 17 customers of One Traveller have made a claim for compensation and the first has been refused by6 BA citing 'adverse weather conditions'. I intend to pursue this further through the CAA as British Airways clearly know the problems and sent a fully booked airbus knowing that it was unlikely to take off on a warm (34 degrees clear dry day)
If there are others claiming for this flight please contact me.
British airways may be trying to capitalize on Americans wanting to go to Florence from the East Coast of the U.S. because the Heathrow route dovetails nicely with the schedules coming out off Boston, New York etc. However, due to possible union contracts BA cannot use the Embraers airplanes out of Heathrow, so BA is using the an Airbus A320neo which on a slightly windy day becomes problematic due to weight issues. Our flight last...
British airways may be trying to capitalize on Americans wanting to go to Florence from the East Coast of the U.S. because the Heathrow route dovetails nicely with the schedules coming out off Boston, New York etc. However, due to possible union contracts BA cannot use the Embraers airplanes out of Heathrow, so BA is using the an Airbus A320neo which on a slightly windy day becomes problematic due to weight issues. Our flight last September 9th was over 7 hours late due to a number of operational failures, and we decided to go the CEDR route for EU/UK 261 because how backlogged BA's customer service seems to be, and BA's propensity for using Extraordinary Circumstances/weather as a get out of jail card!
Joy: what is your email address? I am in the process of completing my CEDR claim because I know BA will always claim Extraordinary Circumstances/Weather. On the the day of the very first flight FLR-LHR there was a delay and BA actually handed out compensation forms, so that might be a useful precedent
Two of my sisters were also on that flight and my brother-in-law. moreover, I wrote about my experiences on September 9th on the BA Flyertalk website!
Joy:
I was also in the same flight. Currently, I have a case being reviewed by CEDR. I will let you know the outcome.
David Goodgame
Joy - I also was on that flight and I am the husband of the pregnant lady who was referenced in many of the comments below on 9-9-23. I received a response from BA this past weekend claiming adverse weather conditions and no fault of BA. I also would like to escalate this to the highest authority for BA to pay reimbursment and be held accountable for all the passengers that had to suffer. I...
Joy - I also was on that flight and I am the husband of the pregnant lady who was referenced in many of the comments below on 9-9-23. I received a response from BA this past weekend claiming adverse weather conditions and no fault of BA. I also would like to escalate this to the highest authority for BA to pay reimbursment and be held accountable for all the passengers that had to suffer. I also checked and noticed BA 0525 is not an active route anymore for over the last 30 days so it seems they have abandoned the route.
Let me know how we can get in contact -you can e-mail me at [email protected]
For our trip to Florence, two flights we were put on (both BA) from London city we were kicked off due to weight of the plane and then Gatwick were cancelled on the same day. We have just been kicked off our return flight again and moved to Bologna. Our friends were diverted to Pisa on the way out. The whole route and surrounding areas for BA are a mess
We flew from Heathrow to Florence and Florence to Heathrow both of our flights were cancelled. We had fly into Pisa and out of Pisa. I would recommend not taking these flights . They are very unreliable and taking a bus from the two airports is terrible. It’s all through British airlines.
We had the unfortunate pleasure of experiencing the diverted to Pisa flight on 25 September. Absolute debacle (details below) with every fellow passenger vowing they would never fly British Airways again!
We knew from Flightradar24 that the flight to FLR had been diverted so we were somewhat mentally prepared. Plus we had read this post and comments (unfortunately only after we had booked this flight).
Despite this, the incompetence all around is quite something to...
We had the unfortunate pleasure of experiencing the diverted to Pisa flight on 25 September. Absolute debacle (details below) with every fellow passenger vowing they would never fly British Airways again!
We knew from Flightradar24 that the flight to FLR had been diverted so we were somewhat mentally prepared. Plus we had read this post and comments (unfortunately only after we had booked this flight).
Despite this, the incompetence all around is quite something to admire.
Arrive FLR, check in as usual. Told the flight has been diverted. Bags tagged and told to go downstairs to Customer Service for information on the bus transfer to Pisa. We have to take all our luggage with us.
Customer Service informs that bus details will be announced around 10:45am so we get some food at the cafe immediately next door.
Sometime around 10:30am other passengers start wandering off towards the bus stand, and at 10:45am we decide to do the same, absent any announcement.
At the bus stand there is mass confusion as there are 2 flights diverted to Pisa, BA525 and an SAS flight to Copenhagen.
Passengers from both flights stow their luggage and board a waiting bus. Then the SAS passengers are told to disembark because they're on the wrong coach, despite all passengers being destined for Pisa airport. We are thankful that we are on the right bus.
5 minutes later, a different bus attendant turns up and tells us we're on the wrong bus, it's actually for SAS. As the coach is full of BA525 passengers and our luggage is all in the hold, we suggest that they simply swap the coaches.
The attendants apologise but explain that each coach is hired by a specific airline and they can not be swapped.
So some 30 passengers of BA525 disembark, grab their luggage and lug it over to another waiting coach.
We make it to Pisa, and have to check in again. I ask the Club Europe check in staff what gate number we are at. She is clearly frustrated at the workload and simply shrugs and says "I don't know".
We then discover our boarding passes do not scan at the security gates because they were issued in FLR. We find an attendant who manually lets us through.
Having cleared security, the BA525 passengers all mill around looking for our gate. The board says gate open... with no gate number.
After 15 minutes of building around aimlessly they announce it will be gate 21.
The planeload of passengers flood up the escalators and no one has bothered to open up the queues, resulting in people going up the escalator and almost falling because there is no space for them to get off!
We eventually make it onto the plane and the air crew were great - the only pleasant part of this whole experience.
A Club Europe "business" experience this is not - lugging our check in luggage onto a coach, twice, then lining up for about 40 minutes in each airport.
British Airways should be ashamed of themselves.
Currently on a bus to Pisa from Florence. I can’t believe they still sell tickets for this route if they can’t actually operate it. So many people are missing their connecting flights
On 18th September 2023, arrived at Florence to be told must get bus to Pisa because pilot said couldn’t use Florence in mild winds and now looks like 7hrs delay at Pisa. I’ve just found this thread and can’t believe it!
We’ve just encountered same issues… due to land in Florence but due to storm, we’re in Pisa on a coach… waiting to get to Florence airport so we can get the train in to Florence if only we’d have known…
we jusr returned from Italy and experienced a 12 hour delay when our Heathrow to Florence was rerouted to Pisa , Once in Pisa we spent 3 hours waiting for couples whose luggage was lost. we arrived in the Florence train station at midnight, 16 hours later....the EU is quite clear and what compensation is do to me. I filled out a complaint form and now we wait. Has anyone been paid by BA? was it correct?
I wish I knew this beforehand. On Saturday, The flight was delayed for 3 hours whereupon it was announced 50 passengers had to go by bus to PISA whilst the rest of the passengers flew to Pisa and waited for 5 more hours for the 50 people on the bus to arrive then go through the whole checking in/ security process again. The plane arrived at LHR 8 hours late only to discover there were...
I wish I knew this beforehand. On Saturday, The flight was delayed for 3 hours whereupon it was announced 50 passengers had to go by bus to PISA whilst the rest of the passengers flew to Pisa and waited for 5 more hours for the 50 people on the bus to arrive then go through the whole checking in/ security process again. The plane arrived at LHR 8 hours late only to discover there were no buses to take them to the terminal.
Many of the passengers had no food at all. One very pregnant lady had to leave the plane. How could an airline treat its customers so inhumanely?
To quote the pilot the flight was an “absolute shambles!”
If you read this post - do not fly through Florence to go to Tuscany unless you are flying in a small plane. The FLR airport is too small and large planes cannot manage business there effectively. The most frustrating part is that the airlines know this such a BA and yet they allow customers to book flights there with no warning. If I book with BA and pay several thousand dollars then I expect...
If you read this post - do not fly through Florence to go to Tuscany unless you are flying in a small plane. The FLR airport is too small and large planes cannot manage business there effectively. The most frustrating part is that the airlines know this such a BA and yet they allow customers to book flights there with no warning. If I book with BA and pay several thousand dollars then I expect BA to sell me a flight that has a reasonable chance of actually occurring but with flights at FLR, the success rate of flying is extremely low. Also, BA will blame it on the weather so they do not have to pay accommodations but the reality is that the FLR airport is not one that should be booked and BA knows this. Research this issue and you will see that many reports of issues have occurred for quite some time and BA even stopped flying into FLR for some time but for some reason started up again.
So, BA has known about this since May. This is frustrating given we will be missing all connections to the USA. If you read this DO NOT fly out of Florence on BA! It seems to effect all their flights from Florence. We heard they were kicking 11 people off the Edinburg flight. They could use a different plane like others indicated on this article without any issues.
Same issue but this time on BA’s flight from Florence to Edinburgh. They have just off boarded a dozen passengers due to weight and wind issues who now aren’t going to make it back to Edinburgh until tomorrow. Looks like this is an ongoing challenge for this EDI to FLR route too.
Utterly disgusted. The fact that they know this and using a “checking system issue” as the reason why flight BA0525 on 23/09 did not leave Florence today. Also why move the 11:55am passengers from Florence to Pisa when there was no flight confirmed stuck in a small airport for the best part of 9 hrs. BA staff no where to be seen and yet security guard apparently confirms ‘this happens weekly’. How are the airline...
Utterly disgusted. The fact that they know this and using a “checking system issue” as the reason why flight BA0525 on 23/09 did not leave Florence today. Also why move the 11:55am passengers from Florence to Pisa when there was no flight confirmed stuck in a small airport for the best part of 9 hrs. BA staff no where to be seen and yet security guard apparently confirms ‘this happens weekly’. How are the airline regulators allowing this to happen? Not only time lost, awful experience but more importantly people having to travel onwards to a final destination which could also mean getting home late in order to be get to work as BA clearly don’t care and will probably give minimal comp as they don’t give two hoots about distress and inconvenience unlike financial service sector! Shame on you British Airways
My wife experienced this issue today. She was booked on the 12.15 flight to LHR. The captain decided that because of weight issues some passengers would be bussed to Pisa. while first and business class passengers would be flown there and then all flown to London. The group chosen to be on the bus included elderly people, pregnant women and families with babies. The flight was due in London at 13.30 and arrived eventually at...
My wife experienced this issue today. She was booked on the 12.15 flight to LHR. The captain decided that because of weight issues some passengers would be bussed to Pisa. while first and business class passengers would be flown there and then all flown to London. The group chosen to be on the bus included elderly people, pregnant women and families with babies. The flight was due in London at 13.30 and arrived eventually at 20.45. BA staff were rude, luggage was flown on without linked passengers -against all the safety rules. People lost their onward connections and my wife has just spent a fortune on a taxi as the only option available to her as there was no more public transport to her destination. This kid all the fault of BA. Avoid this airline.
Due to fly to Florence next Saturday. Have issues with mobility and worried flights are going to get diverted! Wonder if I can preempt this and just fly in to Pisa? Time will tell!
how did it go? looking to fly into florence in 2024
they have delivered the schedule at a 38% success rate in May. Shocking, yet it could be managed with a 319, like Veuling do successfully. Something very strange going on her, especially when SAS operate a 320N with a high degree of reliability
This makes no sense. Helvetic flies with the Embraer E2 195 without any issues… KLM as well with E175 I think… why not just change plane?
We were supposed to fly on 18th but they bumped 6 of us due to weight issues even thought the flight was not fulll (109 out of about 140 seats). Ended up with a 5 hour delay arriving at Heathrow via London City Airport
I used to commute weekly bhx to Florence. A nightmare , I was hardly ever on time. Just started using ema to pisa in the end and getting the bus. Far easier.
Ridiculous situation.
Simple solution. Add a third Pisa service and only offer FLR from LCY.
Alternatively, use E195 from LHR.
so, we have a flight from FLR-JFK via LHR and I am seriously wondering if we should re-route and leave from PSA on a scheduled flight versus having to be bussed to PSA on our departure date and potentially misconnecting to JFK. Would BA allow this if we ask now, or will they just say the flight is still scheduled to operate (clearly hasn't operated as scheduled for the last several weeks)...
Just waiting on the bus for the inevitable transfer to Pisa - no message at all from BA re the diversion.
There was Chaos at Florence Airport and we went through security and had to leave again.
This is shambolic even by BA’s current woeful standards - and it’s just a cynical attempt to milk a route that they can’t service with a large aircraft.
( Obviously we diverted to Pisa on the outward journey)
Due to fly on this route this week and looks like aircraft has been diverted to Pisa over the past few days. Please can somebody answer the following questions:
Are passengers notified of diversion prior to leaving Heathrow or are you advised mid-flight?
What are the arrangements for transfer from Pisa to Florence, is a bus transfer laid on by British Airways or is it a case of finding your own way to Florence (at...
Due to fly on this route this week and looks like aircraft has been diverted to Pisa over the past few days. Please can somebody answer the following questions:
Are passengers notified of diversion prior to leaving Heathrow or are you advised mid-flight?
What are the arrangements for transfer from Pisa to Florence, is a bus transfer laid on by British Airways or is it a case of finding your own way to Florence (at your expense) and claiming back cost?
If so, how long is the transfer from Pisa to Florence and are you transferred to Florence Airport?
Years ago they flew to Pisa ,30 years ago
As a note, not just BA. Dropped off my mother-in-law yesterday for a SAS flight to Copenhagen. Chose FLR because I found a direct flight (she's elderly and it's easier for her to go direct). Sure enough: flight diverted to Pisa for refueling, and she arrived at CPH 4 hours late. Remembering the stories I'd seen here about BA, I checked the flight history: it's run as scheduled only once in the last week. Otherwise:...
As a note, not just BA. Dropped off my mother-in-law yesterday for a SAS flight to Copenhagen. Chose FLR because I found a direct flight (she's elderly and it's easier for her to go direct). Sure enough: flight diverted to Pisa for refueling, and she arrived at CPH 4 hours late. Remembering the stories I'd seen here about BA, I checked the flight history: it's run as scheduled only once in the last week. Otherwise: canceled or diverted to Pisa. Ironically, we live much closer to Pisa than FLR but there was no direct flight. Sigh....
SAS also use an A320neo so will suffer the same issues
I don't see why they're not using an A319. That aircraft would not have nearly the issues.
Exactly…
Flew into FLR April 23rd on an SAS A320neo…curious how they seem to make it work.
I flew on an AA319 from LAX to MIA, fully loaded.
Both airports have runways more than twice as long as FLR
I don’t see this flight lasting; arrivederci Firenze .
It's not limited to BA, many airlines are having trouble. And it's largely crew decision if the land or not. A few years ago, I was booked on LX from FLR to ZRH. All other flights operated as scheduled, but our flight was cancelled, because the pilots didn't want to land at FLR due to high winds. I still don't know if this was good or bad news. Obviously, none of the other airlines crashed, so it appears to have been doable ...
I'll say it again for the folks in the back: BLQ (Bologna) is the way to go.
Ben- What part of this is an update to the publications of this post?
*previous publications
Theres a sumnary of flight statuses until 19th May and today its 20th. It has been more or less proved the flight risks. With the Puerto Rico issue and the poor reading comprehensión theres much to do at schools i wonder ..
If the calculator I’m using is accurate, the 752 with RR engines can do it with full load of pax. BA ditched theirs a decade ago, though…
The issue isn't just runway length but winds, climb regurements, and visual contact with the ground neecessitations.
The A320NEO is not the right plane for these types of routes from performance restricted airports.
NEO engines are heavier than earlier generation engines and that is true for most of the new generation fuel efficient engines. However, the fuel efficiency gains are minimal on a 750 mile segment.
The A319, if equipped with the most powerful engines - and I don't know what thrust BA has on its A319s, is probably the...
The A320NEO is not the right plane for these types of routes from performance restricted airports.
NEO engines are heavier than earlier generation engines and that is true for most of the new generation fuel efficient engines. However, the fuel efficiency gains are minimal on a 750 mile segment.
The A319, if equipped with the most powerful engines - and I don't know what thrust BA has on its A319s, is probably the only aircraft in BA's mainline fleet that could operate this route.
Why not just base the service entirely in Pisa and then have a free (or paid) shuttle to Florence or other cities in Tuscany. Or, as others posted below, use more Embraer 170/75/90/95s from LCY. Are Embraers allowed to operate from LHR? That could be another option that would help with connecting traffic.
No go. The Embraer has a takeoff roll north of 5400' in standard conditions. BA simply needs to limit pax headcount on those flights and price accordingly.
That is, the Embraer combined with a light pax headcount to ensure uninterrupted operations. I didn't mean to say the Embraer could not at all. Sorry for any confusion.
That is at MTOW which the plane would never be at for that short a segment. the EMBs have excellent short field performance. They have no issues at LCY or at FLR for the exsisting service.
Both our flights to Florence 14/05/23 and the return to Heathrow 17/05/23 were redirected to Pisa and a bus was put on to take us to and from there and back! There were not enough buses either and some were left at Pisa, but I guess they got there in the end. The return from Florence was at first cancelled and we had to book onto the London city flight via the BA app. Then...
Both our flights to Florence 14/05/23 and the return to Heathrow 17/05/23 were redirected to Pisa and a bus was put on to take us to and from there and back! There were not enough buses either and some were left at Pisa, but I guess they got there in the end. The return from Florence was at first cancelled and we had to book onto the London city flight via the BA app. Then it was changed back to Pisa and bus service was put on to get us here. At the bag drop off we were put back onto the Heathrow flight but only because I asked for it. There was zero tannoy announcements at Florence airport to inform us of this! My complaint has gone to BA and from what I was told by a lady who does this flight once a week it has happened 11 times so far to her! This flight route is not fit for purpose. We lost many hours of our holiday time because of this and BA should remove it as a flight!
The last 7 flights into Florence from Heathrow have all diverted to Pisa. Admittedly the weather in Italy is atrocious right now but that's quite the service impact. Can't see this flight lasting the summer
Flew BA to Pisa from Gatwick and back a few weeks ago. Good service on an Airbus 320. Only complaint was that BA changed flight to depart from Gatwick instead of the original Heathrow. Cost to defer to Gatwick and back was on me - bad BA!
I am flying to Florence in August from London city airport with BA.
I believe that they use smaller aircraft.
They already have a year round flight to Florence from London City Airport using Embraer 190, I think a better solution would be to just increase frequency on this route for the summer season rather than trying to run an A320 from Heathrow that is guaranteed to ensure this route is unreliable.
For Sean M.
The distance is 757, not the aircraft.
BA are using the Airbus 320neo.
It’s hard to build anything in Florence; the owner of Fiorentina has been trying to upgrade the existing stadium or build a new and is having no luck.
We had a very unfortunate experience with our flight from London to Florence on Monday. When we checked in, we were told that we were “required ” to check our luggage because the flight was”full.” This turned out not to be true. The fight was not full and other passengers were permitted to carry on luggage. Our flight was diverted to Pisa because the pilot advised that although he could land the plane because of...
We had a very unfortunate experience with our flight from London to Florence on Monday. When we checked in, we were told that we were “required ” to check our luggage because the flight was”full.” This turned out not to be true. The fight was not full and other passengers were permitted to carry on luggage. Our flight was diverted to Pisa because the pilot advised that although he could land the plane because of the wind he advised that he would not be able to take off. We were told that it was a “30 minute bus ride.” This turned out not to be true. It was over 1 hour. Then BA lost my wife’s luggage. When we tried to contact BA—there was no one at BA to assist. In sum, we arrived in Florence over three hours late and with a lost piece of luggage. I would avoid this flight.
TAP and KLM operate an E190 and don't have flights cancelled.
The regular BA flight from England to Florence leaves from London City and is operated by an E190. They have several of these flights daily.
Wait so if they have that flight why do they bother with a Heathrow flight? Do they want to capture connecting traffic?
I had a flight to Florence last year and the winds were so bad after numerous attempts the pilot went to Pisa. Everyone on the plane is as chanting Pisa Pisa Pisa . The Pisa airport is much Berge connected to rail etc I wish they would just do Pisa instead of Florence. Side note there was no immigration in Pisa when we landed, got bags walked to bus to Florence and arrived there to a queue of taxis. Very smooth but no entry stamps. More of a trouble when we left
Send a S2000 or AVRO RJ no prob
BA has neither
Your comments on Florence Airport is not quite accurate. Arriving is only allowed (by big jets0 on runway 5 as you mentioned. But takeoffs are normally done opposite, runway 23, meaning the airport opperates mainly as a one way in one way out airport. When winds are too strong to land runway 5, flights divert. However, when winds are too strong and favorable to runway 5 to take off runway 23, the conditions have to...
Your comments on Florence Airport is not quite accurate. Arriving is only allowed (by big jets0 on runway 5 as you mentioned. But takeoffs are normally done opposite, runway 23, meaning the airport opperates mainly as a one way in one way out airport. When winds are too strong to land runway 5, flights divert. However, when winds are too strong and favorable to runway 5 to take off runway 23, the conditions have to be good enough for a visual departure ( the pilot has to visually fly and turn out and fly to a waypoint off of the departure end of 23 to pick up the instrument departure), it has to be daylight, and payload is severely restricted because of higher climb gradient needed for a possible engine out scenario. So usually the airport lands 5, takes off 23, and occasionally when they have to take off 5 a lot of flights have to stop to refuel in Pisa or Bologna, and when they have to land 23 flights are divereted or canceled.
I agree: spell check, grammar, punctuation ... why bother? Just write one long-a$$ paragraph and hope for the best.
This sounds just like the airport at Lukla.
On a different note, the 757 has a greater range than 320 miles.
You can still fly BA from London to Florence. Fly from London City Airport. BA Cityflyer have been operating London to Florence from LCY for many years as it’ll be much more reliable than the A320NEO service.
Firenze needs a better airport. There is a project for a new longer runway that would solve all the actual problems you described in your article (and the noise problems too, with the actual runway planes take off and land 50-100 meters over many houses) but it has been postponed for years thanks to NIMBYs, a few lobbies and some political parties that have successfully tried every way to block it.
Here NIMBY’s have a solid argument given the cultural sensitivity. They aren’t just going to build a new airport or greatly expand the current one, when Bologna and Pisa are nearby.
Fully agree, Florence does not need an airport, just a fast train to Pisa. Bologna is already well connected…
We were flying from Bologna to London Heathrow yesterday and had 23 passengers redirected to our flight from this Florence flight. We were delayed 2 hours on the tarmac waiting for their coach to arrive and for the passengers to board. When they arrived, we were told that the plane could not carry the weight because of winds so BA shipped them over to us in Bologna - meanwhile, we were stuck on the ground...
We were flying from Bologna to London Heathrow yesterday and had 23 passengers redirected to our flight from this Florence flight. We were delayed 2 hours on the tarmac waiting for their coach to arrive and for the passengers to board. When they arrived, we were told that the plane could not carry the weight because of winds so BA shipped them over to us in Bologna - meanwhile, we were stuck on the ground waiting to take off. Crew were just as unimpressed as us passengers.
This kinda reminds me of EYW, but more difficult. Formerly the largest plane that could make it to EYW was the 737-700, but they lengthened the runway and now 319s (and the 220-300) can make it in. BA had 319s at LHR pretty recently, so not sure why they didn't start with those on this route. Yes, fewer seats so lower revenue but operating the route reliably should be worth it.
Real simple, revenue matters to the airline, customers and staff (or delivery if the advertised service) don't. Anyone with experience of BA in the past few years will know this.
The UK brand of a Spanish registered multinational is in reality #BestAvoided
We are flying to Florence on Brussels Airlines on an Airbus 319. I had no idea of this. The flight was full. Only Business was open for $600 one way from Brussels. Was able to use United award but at a hefty 24,000 miles for a 1 1/2 hour flight.
How was the flight? any issues? I have this flight in April 2024.
Flew out of FLR recently on a Brussels Air 319 without issue. I realize that's anecdotal but the previous week on flightaware shows all on time arrivals and departures.
Are other airlines having this issue or just BA? To me that is the salient question. Plus it's just kinda hard to believe BA haven't served this before? Maybe they did pre-pandemic?
Finally I'd include Bologna (BLQ) as another alternate airport to Florence based...
Flew out of FLR recently on a Brussels Air 319 without issue. I realize that's anecdotal but the previous week on flightaware shows all on time arrivals and departures.
Are other airlines having this issue or just BA? To me that is the salient question. Plus it's just kinda hard to believe BA haven't served this before? Maybe they did pre-pandemic?
Finally I'd include Bologna (BLQ) as another alternate airport to Florence based on each train connections into Florence.
Vueling sometimes has issues if there's an operational equipment swap. I think that's often the case for airlines that use planes bigger than regional jets or A319 into Florence. The only ever delay I've had out of Florence was an airport strike the first time I flew out of there and had to wait for 5 hours in Amsterdam when I missed my origional connection to Copenhagen.
“A British Original”
Nothing new about flights to Florence...
When they are not operated by Hop with embraers, AF flights are often re-routed also to Pisa.
Absolutely inaccurate, AF has never operated flights to FLR with Hop's E190. In the past they used for long time the CityJet Avro RJ85 (in AF livery), and now for years they are using their own A318 and A319.
Also fly EDI-FLR on Saturday this summer
FLR is a fundamentally flawed airport. I have booked to fly to or from FLR a dozen times and never had a flight operate. Airlines regularly cancel FLR flights due to weather conditions at the airport and rebook pax. Had this issue with BA and LH.
Not every city needs or can get air service; other airports that are close enough are better equipped.
Other planes could do the job including the 757 - which they don't have any longer - or the A319 or A220 or B737-700 w/ short runway/high performance packages - but the economics probably don't work for a heavily leisure route.
I would bet the route is being subsidized which is why BA probably started it in the first place
The 757 had great short field performance but not with any worthwhile payload. You'd be taking around 20-25 tons payload hit off a 5000' runway depending on the variant MTOW and tailwind component.
I remember a ferry we did from Southend (5200ft runway) to Accra many years ago on the 757. Just a handful of crew on board and nil payload, but it was still touch and go just on fuel requirements alone.
I remember flying a Monarch Airlines B757 from Luton to Gibraltar, landing in such a big aircraft on that tiny runway was always a thrilling experience.
London to Accra is a 3000 mile flight. Florence to London is doable w a decent passenger load. BA not only doesn’t have 757s but there are just a few aircraft types that can fly from FLR w a remotely viable load
Yes Tim, that's exactly what my point was
Subsidized by what? Cold, hard, passenger cash, that's what. FLR is one of the most premium destinations in Italy.
Florence always is an interesting route to work on. We fly the ERJ195-E2 to Florence time to time and it’s always a guessing if we end up in Florence or in Pisa. Not suprising BA has had a bit of a rocky start
British Airways will most likely decide to "enhance" their passengers experience my flying to Pisa from now on. People should rather try the other alternate budget carrier, Ryan Air.
While not technically in Toscana, Bologna definitely makes the most sense to use as a gateway to the area. Infinitely more options flight wise and the train station offers an incredible variety of high-speed connections to other parts of Toscana and Italy.
Even the drive to a central Tuscan area like Siena takes around the same time, with infinitely more rental car options in Bologna.
That is true. I usually fly into Bologna, it’s about the same travel time as from Pisa with better connectivity.
Yeah, I think BLQ is actually the better choice than PSA for diversions as well. Wonder why BA isn't diverting there?
Probably because the Toscana Aeroporti S.p.A. owns Pisa and Firenze....!