Yesterday I covered a bizarre story about a family being denied boarding on an Alaska Airlines flight, because the carrier’s system had the wrong visa requirements (which is embarrassing, but let’s ignore that for a moment). Then after being downgraded on the next flight, they ended up being removed at the request of the flight attendant. I won’t recap the whole thing, so please read that post first.
I’d like to provide an update on this situation, as we have both an eyewitness report and a report from a pilot on a subsequent flight, and I think this perfectly sums up everything that’s wrong with some employees at carriers in the United States, where they just completely lack the ability to deescalate a situation, and ego gets in the way of performing their job functions.
In this post:
An Alaska flight attendant’s disappointing power trip
As I explained yesterday, a family of four had first class tickets on Alaska. They were then rebooked because they were denied boarding due to a system glitch, and were downgraded. When they tried to board that flight, they were told they couldn’t take their assigned seats, because someone with an Alaska badge reportedly claimed that the flight attendant had saved the entire row for her. This is ridiculous on so many levels.
When he expressed his frustration and asked for the name of both employees, the flight attendant responded by having him removed from the flight. As I mentioned yesterday, Christophe is a long time reader, and he has always struck me as being level headed, so I was inclined to believe him. That’s why I think it’s interesting to cover the updates here.
First of all, someone left the following comment on that post, explaining that he was also on the flight, and talks about how good of a job the passenger did maintaining his composure:
I was on the flight from Missoula, it was a crap show. Alaska wasted about an hour of our time just sitting on board, trying to figure it out. They made no announcements, and acted like nothing happened when it was over. The guy was obviously upset and did a great job keeping his composure. I feel bad for the kids who had their soccer team jerseys on and were ready to go.
But here’s the more interesting point. There’s a Reddit thread about this situation (based on my blog post), and one comment caught my attention. As I mentioned, after the second denied boarding, Alaska prepared to rebook the family a third time, but then Christophe just decided not to gamble with the same thing happening again, and instead, he just booked another ticket on Delta.
Well, the person who claims to be the first officer on the next flight from Missoula (MSO) to Seattle (SEA) wrote the following on Reddit:
Dang, I was the FO of the flight they were supposed to be rebooked on before they decided to take Delta. We were warned about their experience and were prepared to try to make things as pleasant as possible for them. We were told the passengers weren’t aggressive or anything, but there was a “clash of personalities” with the FA and them on the previous flight
Some flight attendants really need to be reined in
I have a lot of respect for flight attendants at large, and I think a vast majority of them do their best, take care of customers, etc. However, the number of flight attendants who go on baseless power trips seems to be unique to the United States.
Passengers should be removed from a flight if they pose a threat to the safety of the flight, not because your personalities don’t necessarily jive. Accepting a passenger onto a flight isn’t like going on a date with them — your job is to just make sure you can transport them a distance of 389 miles without anything going wrong. That’s it. Nothing more.
Everything about this just strikes me as being completely unreasonable:
- Christophe was traveling with his wife and two young children, and wasn’t drunk or aggressive; that’s not really the profile of someone who is most likely to cause a disturbance
- Just look at the actual eyewitness report from another passenger, which confirms he wasn’t aggressive, but instead, was just (understandably) upset, as anyone would be
- If Alaska was immediately willing to rebook them on the next available flight, then it’s pretty clear the airline didn’t actually have concerns about the safety of transporting him
- The person who claims to be the first officer on the subsequent flight they were rebooked on even specifically noted how he wasn’t aggressive, but instead, there was a clash of personalities
- Also, just as a human, how could the flight attendant do this to the man’s young kids, as I can only imagine how rough their travel day was
I just don’t understand why airlines tolerate this kind of behavior. It feels like sometimes flight attendants are coddled in the same way I have to coddle our three-year-old. Like yesterday morning at a breakfast buffet, we made him a waffle (at the make-your-own waffle station), and we put Nutella in a little dish next to it. He insisted he didn’t want one Nutella dish, but he wanted two. I told him he could have a second one once he finished the first one. A 15-minute standoff ensued.
But the thing is, he’s three years old. Presumably this flight attendant has a few years on him, even if she’s acting similarly.
Bottom line
A family had a pretty awful experience flying with Alaska Airlines. They were denied boarding from one flight due to a system glitch. They were downgraded on the next flight, only to then be told they couldn’t take their assigned seats, because an Alaska employee was “reserving” those seats.
When the father asked for the names of the employees so he could report them, the response was to kick the family off the flight. Everything about this narrative struck me as being accurate, given that Christophe is a level headed guy.
That’s now basically confirmed — another passenger confirms he didn’t lose his cool, and someone who claims to be the pilot on the subsequent flight had even been warned by the company to take care of him, and that he wasn’t aggressive, but instead, personalities just clashed.
I hope the flight attendant involved gets a good talking to, because this isn’t how customers should be treated, and it doesn’t at all align with what I consider the Alaska Airlines ethos to be.
What do you make of this situation, based on these reports?
For FA in general....THEY FAIL. Gwad, i am so tired of American FAs all of them. Qatar Airways. Singapore Air, Philippines Air sooooo much better looking and performance.
Well, the FA needs to be put back into training mode. Had I been there, I would have loudly told the FA, the pax was in the right.
Many flight attendants in the US think they are God's gift to the world and can do whatever they want. They treat people like crap, don't do anything on the flight other than the absolute bare minimum, and then constantly complain they aren't paid enough!
boycott those companies that don't appreciate good customers ...very simple you have the power use it
There are 56 comments before mine, and having read all of them --after all if I can't be bothered to read what others think and write why should anyone read what I write-- I have some input. Fortunately I was not on that flight nor on any other flight. My comments are my opinion.
Ever since "Nine-Eleven" the magic words are either those in quotes or "Security." Even my bank won't talk to me...
There are 56 comments before mine, and having read all of them --after all if I can't be bothered to read what others think and write why should anyone read what I write-- I have some input. Fortunately I was not on that flight nor on any other flight. My comments are my opinion.
Ever since "Nine-Eleven" the magic words are either those in quotes or "Security." Even my bank won't talk to me without a Sir, Message, Sir: "Sir, for your security I need your social security number, Sir." For my security I don't give that out.
Our quickly-created DHS and its parts including TSA (and CBP and ICE) are only too happy to use these excuses to perpetuate the entirely useless "security theater." In this case an entire family was IDBd, deplaned, downgraded, and generally treated like shit. I wish I could say it's this administration but [while this one is the worst since 2001] this has been going on since the inception of the three-letter agencies of nazis, hooligans, egomaniacs, and power trippers.
FAs have always lusted after power and now they get to deplane whomever they [don't] like. There is no recourse. The customer has been paid to get fucked and the customer does get fucked and if the customer doesn't smile and say thank you, that's ALL they get... no flight... no refund... nothing but lies.
This isn't an Alaska Problem nor an FA problem but more of a systemic problem where the magic words (in quotes above) trump any reason or common sense. It has never been acceptable, but in today's United States the culture is out of control.
Time to ask: "What security are you talking about?" "How is my family endangering that security?" "Your attitude today suggests YOU get your bag and be replaced before this aircraft leaves. The captain will back me up." (and the Captain should... because sometimes the customer IS right and the employee attitude needs adjustment.)
I've managed teams between 2-5 and 200-500 and it's a tough decision but if you can't make that decision, you're ineligible to fly Part-121 pax because you won't do the hard part of the job.
Healthy skepticism is good, Ehud. Reforms are sorely needed. May not agree on everything, but I appreciate that you take the time to read and share on here (and elsewhere. Thank you.
Fifth paragraph : "trump any reason or common sense" ? Please don't make this political . Trump had nothing to do with this .
You can't be serious...
IT'S OFFICIAL
@1990 is the Tim Dunn of unions.
I tend to advocate for worker and consumer protections; that’s quite different than shilling for one preferred corporation (and, you gotta admire Tim’s passion and dedication). If you don’t see the difference, that’s more on you.
1990 is Tim Dunn, on another computer.
Airlines need to do a better job at screening out insufferable fascist flight attendants.
While the F/A was clearly in the wrong and that needs to be addressed, either with a suspension or possible termination.
The non-rev demanding the entire row for herself is just ridiculous. Non-revs know better than to do this, especially if customers with assigned seats show up. The NRSA pax needs to have pass travel suspended for a significant period, nothing short of two years.
The silence from AS so far on this has been interesting. This story has developed legs and gone beyond the 24 hour news cycle. AS is usually out by now with some kind of spin, but perhaps the objective facts in this case are so inexcusably awful that even their crisis communications consultants are out of ideas.
Always nice to get one side of the story and then make your decision.
Always nice to see corporate shills inserting plausible deniability to harm consumers. Not.
AS is welcome to dispute any part of this.
while the "union" theory seems reasonable enough to explain FA behavior in the US, i don't think it really survives contact with DL FAs
Bashing unions, or all workers, after an incident like this, is prejudicial and deflects responsibility away from the specific individuals who act inappropriately, as seemingly here. Wish we could focus on the bad actor(s), and not blame entire groups. *sigh*
My Oh, my. A Walter free post, this must be a first.
Again, will you be following up with Alaska to obtain its side of the story as well as what Alaska plans to do to compensate this family? Balanced journalism, you know?
This is a travel blog, not CNN. And Alaska Airlines has its own avenues of communication if it wishes to weigh in. But also, I have to chuckle at the notion that there can be "balance" between some average Joe and a multibillion dollar corporation. "This is unfair to the corporation, what's their side of the story??" All these big bad average Joes and travel bloggers picking on the sad defenseless little airline.
What a horrible situation! I hope Christophe and family get some kind of apology from Alaska.
Also, Lucky, just truly came to say that I am STRUGGLING to not laugh out loud during a virtual meeting after reading "But the thing is, he’s three years old. Presumably this flight attendant has a few years on him, even if she’s acting similarly." Ha!!!
I was Gold 100k since the the tier was established and have Titanium Status through the end of 2027. I have flown into Canada on Alaska a few times and the Alaska system doesn't handle it very well. I have valid U.S. Passport and Nexus card.
Something has really gone awry with Alaska in general. The Hawaiian merger, developing international routes, and revising the mileage program seems to be a juggling act they can't handle.
...I was Gold 100k since the the tier was established and have Titanium Status through the end of 2027. I have flown into Canada on Alaska a few times and the Alaska system doesn't handle it very well. I have valid U.S. Passport and Nexus card.
Something has really gone awry with Alaska in general. The Hawaiian merger, developing international routes, and revising the mileage program seems to be a juggling act they can't handle.
Telling passengers to deboard a plane for the request made by the make flyer to me should be grounds for disciplinary action. A flight attendant who escalates to this level so quickly needs additional training and/or consequences.
I don't understand the "visa requirement" mention at the beginning . So , they fly from Montana to Alaska ? What is the visa requirement ?
Are they are citizens of Switzerland ? Do they live in USA ? What visa requirement ? They cannot go to Alaska ?
Covered in detail in the previous article which this one practically begs you to read first...
Yikes, people
"What do you make of this situation, based on these reports?"
I choose not to speculate on situations that are none of my concern based on third-part comments from online sites even if it appears that those comments come from people who witnessed the situation.
Nothing toward a greater good is gained from doing so.
A non-trivial number of airline "incidents" are triggered by flight attendants. I believe they have been given too much power to be judge and jury.
C-PAP's (breathing devices for those with sleep apnea) are allowed by the FAA on every airline. That (at the time) was listed in the back of every airlines' inflight magazine. It does +not+ count against the carryon limit.
I was on an AA flight and a FA got upset...
A non-trivial number of airline "incidents" are triggered by flight attendants. I believe they have been given too much power to be judge and jury.
C-PAP's (breathing devices for those with sleep apnea) are allowed by the FAA on every airline. That (at the time) was listed in the back of every airlines' inflight magazine. It does +not+ count against the carryon limit.
I was on an AA flight and a FA got upset because I brought it on board. I showed her the rule printed in the magazine and she backed down. I also reported it to AA.
Received an apology letter on AA stationery and it suggested I carry the letter on board in case it happened again (I guess training its people properly was out of the question). Sure enough, a couple of weeks later, an AA FA exploded when she saw the C-PAP. When I showed her the letter, she said it was a FORGERY! She was shouting and another FA had to calm her down and tell her what I was doing was okay.
Finally, more recently, flew on AA overnight back from Hawaii. I was using the C-PAP and it was plugged in like any other device. I was awakened -- twice -- by different FA's telling me I couldn't use it. I pulled out the dog-eared letter (it was many years old at this point).
In every one of these cases, they had determined I was wrong, rather than simply inquiring. I've seen this happening on other airlines over other issues.
This is really bad. Alaska should send out some huge vouchers to these people to use on their oneworld partners.
The Alaska flight attendant should be fired, plain and simple. This was handled in an unacceptable fashion and there is ZERO excuse for this. Alaska should e-mail this family, offer a full apology with no excuses (with the very simple explanation that the flight attendant did not follow Alaska procedures) and a nice healthy credit towards a future Alaska flight. Sometimes the best course of action is a flat out apologize and try to make...
The Alaska flight attendant should be fired, plain and simple. This was handled in an unacceptable fashion and there is ZERO excuse for this. Alaska should e-mail this family, offer a full apology with no excuses (with the very simple explanation that the flight attendant did not follow Alaska procedures) and a nice healthy credit towards a future Alaska flight. Sometimes the best course of action is a flat out apologize and try to make up for a complete customer service failure.
Some flight attendants really need to be reined in
No, some flight attendants need to be FIRED. FTFY.
Yup. It only takes one FA from each US airline to get the boot, the union to stand with the airline (for once) and all the others will fall in line.
And if you can’t get enough americans to do that job bring immigrants like other carriers do. American flight attendants have become too entitled and need some free market lessons.
@Ben, you keep your government hands off of Miles' Nutella! ;)
Small silver lining... If that internet person really was the FO on their next flight, it reminds me of how Alaska staff actually *can* sometimes do little things to help customers. For the FO to know, presumably an airport agent at the outstation made a note or told them in some way, and the sympathy was interpreted by the FO as requiring some level of service recovery.
Completely expected that U.S. flight attendants misbehave like this when corporations allow them to get away with anything. Time for them to become at-will employees that can be fired when they generate customer complaints.
Shame on Alaska Air and Ben Minicucci!
“… because your personalities don’t necessarily jive.”
Sorry to be that guy but here I go being that guy.
“Jive” is a form of speech or language, or a dance.
“Jibe” is to match up or agree.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER! :)
Ironic, give how profoundly white Lucky is.
TravelinWill ... the story indicates that the FA doesn't "jive" at all . "Jazzy Jive" is my preference .
One word: unions
One word: No.
Yep. FAs should be paid for the service quality they provide
How do we "know" this was the real FO....and not another commenter saying they were.
Remember, just because they claim doesnt mean they are until verified.....this whole situation doesnt make much sense here and i think this is on the realm of fake outrage to amplify thier greivance.
The airlines are afraid to go agains the unions, which protect and serve flight attendants that think the job of the flight attendant is to sit in a jump seat and complain about crew scheduling, crew hotels and not making enough money.
While they are in the minority they are found in all US based airlines.
This isn’t a union-issue; to borrow from your typical defense of authority figures, it’s just one bad apple… most crews are professional.
Then why are they still employed?
Why don't we change that FA for four first class tickets?
GuldenNL, didn't this incident just happen? I mean, efficiency sounds great, but they'll probably do their own internal investigation on their agent(s). Naw, naw... fire 'em out of a canon! *boom*
What's the rest of that saying though?
Like you said, I’ve got tons of respect for FAs. But sometimes, it does feel like some of them are actively miserable and treat all customers as an inconvenience.
I’m glad you’re writing more about this and providing an update. Alaska (or most airlines really) won’t care until it goes public and their reputation is at stake.
Wow, incidents like these are thankfully rare, but, if this is what happened, it exposes Alaska, big-time. It proves the front-line crew knew there was zero safety threat under 49 U.S.C. § 44902. They weaponized "crew discretion" because a premium passenger dared to ask for names after an employee tried to inappropriately "reserve" an entire row.
Airlines rely entirely on your confusion and emotional exhaustion to screw you over in these moments. If you find...
Wow, incidents like these are thankfully rare, but, if this is what happened, it exposes Alaska, big-time. It proves the front-line crew knew there was zero safety threat under 49 U.S.C. § 44902. They weaponized "crew discretion" because a premium passenger dared to ask for names after an employee tried to inappropriately "reserve" an entire row.
Airlines rely entirely on your confusion and emotional exhaustion to screw you over in these moments. If you find yourself facing a corporate power trip, please consider:
1) Remain calm: Treat the interaction like a camera is rolling. Composure strips them of their only legal cover, retroactively labeling you a "safety threat."
2) Do not accept a quick refund: Accepting a pro-rata refund on the spot legally severs the contract and absolves them of whatever you have to spend to get to your destination.
3) Demand an Involuntary Reroute: Force a supervisor to look at interline partners or competitors to get you to your destination on their dime. If they refuse, document the refusal.
4) Document "Under Protest": Get names (clearly this family tried to do that!), write down timelines, and text/email the airline before you buy a competitor's ticket stating you are doing so under protest because they failed to perform.
5) Sue for Breach of Contract: Bypass regular customer service. File a DOT complaint to pull the internal logs, and head straight to Small Claims Court for full reimbursement of your consequential damages (the competitor's tickets and incidentals).
Many times, airlines do make it right at Step 3. But if they don’t, and you have to go to war, walk away. Ditch your points, burn your credits, and forget about brand loyalty. Treat modern air travel like the strict commodity it has become, in the US at least.
Friends, you know that I wish the US had actual robust consumer protections like in the UK, EU, and Canada, but even those have loopholes, like the AirHelp v. Austrian Airlines decision that strips transit passengers of EU261 protection if they start and end outside Europe (like, JFK-CDG-BKK on Air France). Until our laws catch up, your best weapon against an ego trip is a cool head and paper trail. You'll be late, but you won't lose more money than you need to. Keep fighting!
Ben, any update on reimbursement, compensation for this family? Like, "a good talking to" isn't enough, here. They deserve a full-recovery.
-OR- Simply read the name tag ? Duh .
The long list of things to do , and laws to be invoked , are a waste of effort and time .
Alert, so, just ‘take it.’ Let ‘em hurt ya. Huh. No, that ain’t good enough for me. And no one should settle for that. C’mon.
So...who won the Nutella standoff?
@ DENDAVE -- Please don't ask. :-( We did come to a compromise, but he definitely got the better deal.
HA! I guess we have our answer. Maybe next time, Ben ;)
Why do we constantly hear of this behaviour by cabin crew in north America and specifically in the US? It happens there more, by a massive majority, than anywhere else.
I can all but guarantee your 3 year old is better behaved in public than this FA
This is exactly why it is better to take a Jeep from Montana to Canada , thus avoiding Alaska .
You forgot to mention “girl food.” What about girl food?
This is the predictable endpoint of a system that lionizes flight attendants as safety warriors, and absolves them of needing to perform virtually any service or hospitality functions.
Matt ... Exactly so .
Agreed 200%, very well said
"hippopotamize" , rather than "lionize" .
Alert, well, aren't you the Rhymenoceros....
Fellas, this is an outlier; you folks typically bash the workers, but most crews are professionals. Clearly, not here, sadly.
When you have too many outliers, they are no longer outliers. U.S. flight attendants are notorious for their power trips and reluctance to work. No wonder why they sometimes barricade the galleys in order not to be bothered. You notice a subtantial positive difference in the attitude of flight attendants when you take an Eastern European, Middle Eastern or Asian carrier.
Levine, apples and oranges. Carriers in the Middle East and Asia are heavily subsidized, they do not have labor protections, and there is rampant ageism and sexism. As far as your 'barricade' concern... umm, you are aware this often happens so the pilot can use the lav? Guys, can we please focus on the one-off bad-actor here, instead of vilifying an entire group?
100%. Just pour the soda.
I always laugh at "The FAs are here primarily for your safety" when easily half of them are to large to fit down the aisles without turning sideways and/or are so old that in the event of an emergency, they are likely to be a detriment to safety and will need to be "saved" themselves.
DCAWABN, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't real, kind of like 'germ theory.' Flight attendants aren't there to sprint down the aisle; they are trained to manage crowd control, operate exit doors, and execute evacuation protocols under extreme stress. Physical size doesn't dictate authority or competence in a crisis. That said, the FA in this AS instance is likely in the wrong.
Eliyahu, on your next flight, please do tell your crew exactly how you feel... ideally, before they pour you your soda. Drink up!