An Air India Boeing 777 bound for San Francisco diverted to a small city in a remote part of Russia. Even 24 hours later, passengers are still stranded, and an Air India rescue jet has just been dispatched to Russia.
In this post:
Air India Boeing 777 diverts to small Russian airport
This incident happened on Tuesday, June 6, 2023, and involves Air India flight AI173 from Delhi (DEL) to San Francisco (SFO). The flight was operated by a roughly 14-year-old Boeing 777-200LR with the registration VT-ALH. At over 7,700 miles, this is one of the longer flights out there.
The flight departed Delhi on Tuesday morning shortly after 4AM local time, as expected. Air India uses Russian airspace (even on flights to the United States), so the aircraft started flying north, initially over Pakistan, then Tajikistan, then Kyrgyzstan, then Kazakstan, and then Russia.
Around eight hours after takeoff, as the plane was supposed to start the brief overwater portion of its flight (flying over the East Siberian Sea and then the Arctic Ocean, prior to flying over Alaska), the aircraft encountered a mechanical issue, requiring a diversion. There was apparently a technical problem with one of the engines, though we don’t know the details beyond that.
The issue is, there aren’t many airports you can divert to in this part of the world. At this point the decision was made to divert to Sokol Airport in Magadan, Russia (GDX). This is a fairly small regional airport that ordinarily sees just 400K passengers per year.
After flying south for nearly two hours, the Air India 777 touched down there, just under 10 hours after departing Delhi. That shows you just how remote of an area the 777 was flying in, given that it took nearly two hours to even get to a small airport.
At this point the jet and all passengers were safely on the ground at Sokol Airport. Unfortunately matters haven’t gotten much better from that point.
Air India passengers housed in school, waiting for rescue aircraft
Upon landing at Sokol Airport, passengers first had to stay onboard the aircraft for around six hours. Obviously that’s a huge inconvenience, but fair enough — arranging accommodations and getting government approval to deplane passengers in a country for which they don’t have a visa is no small task.
The region doesn’t have many hotels, so I was curious to know the logistics of finding accommodation for 216 passengers and 16 crew members. Well, unfortunately the situation is pretty grim. Air India has reportedly housed all passengers in a school, with dozens of people per room. Passengers report that food options are incredibly limited.
Air India did find hotels for the crew members, which is leaving many passengers frustrated, especially since they’re struggling to communicate with the locals.
Passengers have now been on the ground for over 24 hours. Air India has finally dispatched a rescue aircraft, with the registration code VT-ALF. The 13-year-old Boeing 777-200LR just took off from Mumbai Airport (BOM), and should land in Russia at around 6:30AM on Thursday, June 7. So by the time the plane lands, passengers will have been on the ground for around 36 hours.
The next question will be whether the aircraft is able to continue right away to San Francisco, or if there are further issues there. For what it’s worth, the distance from Magadan to San Francisco is just under 4,000 miles, so the remaining flight time should be around eight hours. Magadan to San Francisco has to be one of the more unusual routes to ever operate.
This is interesting in light of Russian airspace rules
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022 has had quite the impact on international air travel. All kinds of countries have reciprocal airspace bans with Russia, including the United States. This only applies to US airlines, as well as airlines codesharing with US airlines on a particular route.
Foreign airlines not codesharing with US airlines are allowed to use Russian airspace, even when flying to or from the United States (assuming their own countries don’t have a similar ban).
The US has reportedly been considering restricting foreign airlines from using Russian airspace on flights to and from the United States. This is for a few reasons:
- The current system puts US airlines at a disadvantage
- The goal is to put as many embargoes in place against Russia as possible, and restricting more airlines from using Russian airspace would help with that, especially given the high fees that Russian ATC charges
- There’s a general safety concern of what would happen if a flight with a bunch of Americans diverted to Russia
Well, that’s exactly what we’re seeing here. Air India is one of the airlines that has most benefited from using Russian airspace over the past year, and now the airline has a Boeing 777 full of people (including many Americans) stranded in Russia. I imagine everything will go smoothly (especially given the good relations between India and Russia), though this is a first, as far as I know.
I’m also curious if some special permission will be required to operate a nonstop flight from Russia to the United States, given the current restrictions in place? Has Air India worked this all out already, or could there be an additional surprise here?
Bottom line
An Air India Boeing 777 flying from Delhi to San Francisco on Tuesday encountered an engine issue, leading to a diversion. What makes this diversion so interesting is that Air India uses Russian airspace, and the airline diverted to a small airport in Russia.
I believe this is the first diversion we’ve seen to Russia of a US-bound passenger jet since the start of the war. Air India has just dispatched a rescue jet, which should arrive in Magadan around 36 hours after passengers initially arrived there. The airline claims it will operate the flight to San Francisco on Thursday, June 8.
It seems that the situation on the ground in Magadan isn’t great, with passengers being accommodated in a school, in rather tight quarters. Talk about some challenging logistics on a variety of levels.
What do you make of this Air India 777 diversion?
Russia takes care of people, no matter where they're from. It will be hard for the west to spin this as something bad, but I'm sure they'll try.
AI's 777 (besides the ones from Delta) are absolutely unsafe to fly long-haul. Airline better get new widebodies to replace these fast.
I was curious if this was a 77L from Delta. AI had a couple of legacy 77Ls too and they mostly use it for this route and BLR-SFO.
Arrived at SFO.
An interesting quote by the CEO of Air India on criticism by the western space on operating via the Russian airspace:
"We operate within the ambit of what’s provided to us by the nation of India.
Not all nations agree. And so there are going to be different outcomes as a consequence. Over the past few years, I think we’ve seen the consequence of aviation not being able to connect people, economies, and cultures...
An interesting quote by the CEO of Air India on criticism by the western space on operating via the Russian airspace:
"We operate within the ambit of what’s provided to us by the nation of India.
Not all nations agree. And so there are going to be different outcomes as a consequence. Over the past few years, I think we’ve seen the consequence of aviation not being able to connect people, economies, and cultures and support all the other things we spin-off."
Also, India maintains a consulate general in Vladivostok which provided support. As far as preparedness, this is an airline which is renowned for supporting evacuation of citizens (foreign and national) from war-stricken regions of the world. Therefore, I am sure they did just fine. From what I read, the passengers area already in SFO. The second aircraft also carried AI engineers with spare parts to repair the stranded jet.
Juuuuuust a coincidence that this happened!
Those who know, know...
Flight took off from Magadan to San Francisco.
Rescue flight has landed at GDX.
Source: AIRLIVE on Twitter
Direct to SFO from there.
I think MAGADAN was the site of Stalin's Gulags early in last Century.I stand corrected.From Ann Appelbaum.
Air India has no choice but to fly over Russia, given their government's beef with China. Of course, everyone involved has every incentive to make sure this flight emergency is handled as quickly and quietly as possible. State is not going to want to antagonize things when a flight with US citizens is stuck in Russia, and Russia does not want to make an issue that would antagonize one of their few remaining customers. I'm...
Air India has no choice but to fly over Russia, given their government's beef with China. Of course, everyone involved has every incentive to make sure this flight emergency is handled as quickly and quietly as possible. State is not going to want to antagonize things when a flight with US citizens is stuck in Russia, and Russia does not want to make an issue that would antagonize one of their few remaining customers. I'm sure the locals are doing the best they can, given the need to sequester passengers. Diversions like this suck; crashing would suck more.
100% agreed - Finally a practical comment without the emotionally loaded vitriol we're seeing here. Although I do feel the choice to bypass Russia and China exists for Air India (Atlantic); just uneconomical. Wonder if Air India ever overflew China (think only SFO routes overfly pacific at all, all others were transatlantic) pre-Ukraine crisis at all.
"Wonder if Air India ever overflew China"
Air India had a route pre-covid craziness to Shanghai from Delhi which I myself flew about 10 years ago. Air China, China Eastern, China Southern all had regular flights to at least Delhi pre-covid.
@Luke - yes that's true. I didn't word my question properly, sorry. In this context, I was wondering if any India-US flights were impacted by India's diplomatic situation with China. I thought the mountains and Tibet had a lot to do with not being able to overfly that region, before even getting into politics.
Western Xinjiang airspace north of India has been closed for ages, courtesy of the PRC government. Planes must go either west over Central Asia or east over other parts of China.
@Sarthak, theek hai :)
Found a recent article from last month about Chinese government wanting to restart direct India flights and to try to diplomatically negotiate for it. They are probably wanting to promote more tourism after being shutoff for nearly 3 years!
Flights to places like Beijing, Seoul, or Japan from Delhi to avoid the Himalayas usually take a circutious route going south over Kolkata & Bangladesh before turning northeast into Chinese...
@Sarthak, theek hai :)
Found a recent article from last month about Chinese government wanting to restart direct India flights and to try to diplomatically negotiate for it. They are probably wanting to promote more tourism after being shutoff for nearly 3 years!
Flights to places like Beijing, Seoul, or Japan from Delhi to avoid the Himalayas usually take a circutious route going south over Kolkata & Bangladesh before turning northeast into Chinese airspace.
And yes Air India's flights as I just checked the DEL-ICN route on flightaware does and is right now overflying Chinese airspace :)
Agree. Also Air India is useless, so definitely hasn't planned anything in advance lol.
Yeah, like how the US airlines’ advance planning last summer.
It is better to stay silent and be thought of as stupid, than to open your mouth and prove it.
They’re probably eating fish and caviar right now brought in from local fisherman. Washing that down with wodka. It is safer in Russia than San Francisco.
Honestly, I agree, that's probably what's happening. Russia is a great country and definitely safer than the US with democrat-ridden crime-infested areas and homeless looters and rats everywhere!!!
Codeshare routes can also overfly Russia. Inbound QR flights to the west coast always do, and any connecting pax will codeshare on AA or AS.
@ Brandon -- That's not accurate. You'll notice that QR flights to the west coast specifically don't operate as a codeshare of AA or AS for this reason.
Interesting thanks for clarifying- I had assumed that since they’re ticketed together they were codeshare. My mistake. Keep up the fantastic work; your blog is so inspiring and informative.
"If you can't beat them, arbitrarily impose a sanction or ban," them should be the USA's new motto.
If you want to play with the world's largest and most developed economy, you got to play by its rules. Power politics has been around for a long time.
Is it really so simple? As much as the US would love to flex, they still cannot get countries (such as India) aside from their allies to take the same stance against "enemies of the state." In fact, the last two decades have basically exhibited the weakness of the USA and is characterized by many economists as the start of the decline of the US dream. The truth is that in today's world, power politics...
Is it really so simple? As much as the US would love to flex, they still cannot get countries (such as India) aside from their allies to take the same stance against "enemies of the state." In fact, the last two decades have basically exhibited the weakness of the USA and is characterized by many economists as the start of the decline of the US dream. The truth is that in today's world, power politics are diminishing due to the dependencies between nations. It makes the world a safer place in many ways. It diminishes the last 400 years of dominance by the Western nations (modern day US and the EU) as well, which they find very difficult to deal with. The US basically behaves like a elementary school bully; brash until someone basically ignores them or stands up to them. In the EU, we have basically come to terms with not being the center of the world.
Hotels? I bet the pax (esp. US) are not allowed to enter Russia at all, so need to stay in some kind of airport building.
I've just browsed through a few tweets from a few Indian aviation journalists. A special flight will depart from Mumbai at 1300 IST (0330 EDT/0030 PDT) today for Magadan, which will take the stranded passengers onward to San Francisco. They are not returning to India first.
There doesn't seem to be any sign of displeasure by the US authorities. A State Department spokesperson simply noted that they are monitoring the situation because many passengers are...
I've just browsed through a few tweets from a few Indian aviation journalists. A special flight will depart from Mumbai at 1300 IST (0330 EDT/0030 PDT) today for Magadan, which will take the stranded passengers onward to San Francisco. They are not returning to India first.
There doesn't seem to be any sign of displeasure by the US authorities. A State Department spokesperson simply noted that they are monitoring the situation because many passengers are either US citizens or residents.
Air India is not the only carrier using Russian airspace. I believe Cathay Pacific flies over Russia on some of its US services.
A number of other carriers don't just overfly Russia, but fly to Russia. These include the Gulf carriers, Chinese carriers, Air Serbia, and Turkish Airlines.
For example, check out the typical flight path of DXB-LAX.
"There doesn't seem to be any sign of displeasure by the US authorities"
Not sure what there is to be displeased about. The plane landed safely and at this point it's a matter of inconvenience. This degree of inconvenience is more or less normal when passenger planes make emergency landings in remote airports with few services.
On a more operational issue, what about catering? Wil Magadan be able to cater a full 8 hour flight to SFO??
Imagine they're prepared to cater a 7.5 hour flight to Moscow usually so yes?
Air India says they loaded enough food for everyone on the replacement aircraft.
I'm a retired airline pilot. We had an unofficial rule: Don't overfly Russia if at all possible and don't divert there unless you can't make it anywhere else.
Russia is friend of Bharat (India).
No wonder, Russians allowed their friends (along with others in the custody of their friends) to land in Russia.
Russia is a friend in need (with steel nerves).
India is a friend in need (with Elixer in heart)
Russia India Russia.
Are you an idiot?
It doesn’t matter if this was an Indian aircraft or an European one, in situations of emergency, almost any country would allow the aircraft to land!
Anyway based on how the pax is being accommodated, neither Russia nor Air India are doing a good job
I'm not a fan of Russia, but I have to give some credit, they went out of their way late at night to try to be accommodating here. Lots of passengers tweeting their experience and not a single bad word towards the Russians. Plenty of words towards the airline which didn't give an official update for about 20 hours after they landed. I think a lot of people are going to choose different flights for...
I'm not a fan of Russia, but I have to give some credit, they went out of their way late at night to try to be accommodating here. Lots of passengers tweeting their experience and not a single bad word towards the Russians. Plenty of words towards the airline which didn't give an official update for about 20 hours after they landed. I think a lot of people are going to choose different flights for their parents. Thankfully the press on the Indian and US (specifically SF) sides is on top of this, which I hope impacts marketshare.
Anyone want to speak for the passengers, who are US citizens, residents, or visitors with visas? How much should they be punished?
Alaska Airlines used to operate to GDX, as well as other airports in that area of Russia; VVO, KHV, PKC, and UUS. Those flights were operated in the 1990s with MD-83 aircraft to Anchorage, then down to Seattle.
The flight is not really from Russia though. Russia is not the origin. The flight is from India and it was caught or stranded in Russia. A big difference. What should the airline do, land in Korea or Japan and then take off under another flight number?....
I've got one even better than this:
TAP Portugal flight from LIS to SFO diverts to Fargo ND last October due to a medical emergency. The plane was an A330-900 neo and apparently also had a problem with one of it's engines, which required a mechanic to be flown in from Chicago, as TAP didn't have a replacement plane to send out and United ground crew at Fargo were not capable of servicing the...
I've got one even better than this:
TAP Portugal flight from LIS to SFO diverts to Fargo ND last October due to a medical emergency. The plane was an A330-900 neo and apparently also had a problem with one of it's engines, which required a mechanic to be flown in from Chicago, as TAP didn't have a replacement plane to send out and United ground crew at Fargo were not capable of servicing the plane. We were housed in Fargo, ND and continued our flight to SFO the following day, nearly 30 hours later. I was one of the "lucky" passengers. The only good news was the medical emergency was stable for transfer at Fargo.
Didn’t realise it was a competition. Don’t cha know.
I’d rather be diverted to Fargo where it’s easier to get parts and a rescue flight to.
This is probably going to be a very costly diversion for Air India, because it hugely increases the odds that the US bans any flight to the US that uses Russian airspace (not just for US carriers and foreign flights that are codeshares with US airlines, which is the current rule). If so, Air India will have to cease all nonstop service to SFO and ORD, and other US flights will be longer and more...
This is probably going to be a very costly diversion for Air India, because it hugely increases the odds that the US bans any flight to the US that uses Russian airspace (not just for US carriers and foreign flights that are codeshares with US airlines, which is the current rule). If so, Air India will have to cease all nonstop service to SFO and ORD, and other US flights will be longer and more expensive.
The US airlines have been calling for this for a while, and this gives the US DOT a pretext to implement such a rule. Also, the Indian aviation authorities nixing United-Emirates codeshares to India probably doesn't help either, encouraging a protectionist tit-for-tat.
Duplicitous India. Pretending to be a friend of the west, but then two timing with Russia and Putin.
Perhaps you aren't familiar with India's foreign policy. Ever since independence, India has followed what they call a nonaligned policy, which in practice means having ties with USSR/Russia just as close as to the U.S. They've never pretended to be pro-western.
Seems a lot of Boeing 777 & 787 are having engine problems last few weeks.
Would Air India be violating U.S. sanctions if they fly in the necessary parts and maintenance crew from India? What if they buy spare parts from Aeroflot, considering they have a fleet of 777s with GE engines, too?
There exists a real risk of future punitive detainment of U.S. citizens who are passengers of aeroplanes overflying Russian airspace. What happens from here?
Why don’t you ask Putin?
Spare parts from SU Lol
Aeroflop are scrounging spare parts themselves from anywhere they can. Anything they supplied woud be very second-hand, very expensive (only $USD please) and lack a 30 day warranty.
Let's see how this drama plays out.
Apparently (according to tweets) this should be the replacement plane https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VTALF/history/20230606/0510Z/VIDP/VABB but it's been 12+ hours and nothing has departed from DEL/BOM yet. I guess all the government and airline employees are asleep.
People appear to be sleeping in a high school, in beds, and are "surprised" there were 200+ mattresses available but having sleeping accommodations is a requirement of diversion airports and this was a diversion airport for many other flights before the airspace...
Apparently (according to tweets) this should be the replacement plane https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VTALF/history/20230606/0510Z/VIDP/VABB but it's been 12+ hours and nothing has departed from DEL/BOM yet. I guess all the government and airline employees are asleep.
People appear to be sleeping in a high school, in beds, and are "surprised" there were 200+ mattresses available but having sleeping accommodations is a requirement of diversion airports and this was a diversion airport for many other flights before the airspace shutdown so the airport is providing the service they are paid for being a diversion airport.
Too bad Air India didn't make better friends with Emirates who surely could have lent a 777 much more quickly to help with this
Airlines don’t generally have spares hanging around. Emirates ? You do realise how far away Dubai is.
My Father is one of the passengers on AI173. It was about 2AM SFO time when the plane landed in Magadan…7AM by the time passengers were allowed to get off the plane. They were all bussed to what seem like a gym in an old military barracks. There were mattresses on the floor with a blanket where most of the passengers laid out by 9AM.
Its funny how people are giving helpful votes to silly statements including passengers might go to SFO pride, gulag jokes and so on and one post that (might) show current and real situation is unnotiiced... It clearly shows that when someone has an agenda he goes for it. Too many braindead I suppose. Take mine guy ;p
The US needs to tell Air India that they cannot operate a rescue flight that has stopped in India. AI needs to return the passengers to India and start over, hoping for a better outcome this time.
correction
The US needs to tell Air India that they cannot operate a rescue flight that has stopped in Russia...
Lol US is not a leader of 190+ countries, so we should mind our own business and stop poking our nose in everything outside of the US
The US needs to mind their own business.
If there's US citizens onboard, its their business.
if one end of the flight as scheduled is the United States, the US very much can dictate its rules.
Gosh, what a brainwashed imperialist this is!
every county has the right to determine how commerce happens between itself and other countries
Sorry if you don't realize that EVERY country does this.
Have an ounce of empathy, dude! Imagine if you were one of the passengers. Your brainwashed Cold War trumps the awful situation of these people? This is an emergency. Shameful.
The US needs to mind their own business.
Um, did you put the slightest bit of thought into that statement? Where was the flight headed....
I wonder who remembers the 80's movie, White Nights, with Baryshnikov. Let's hope there is no person of interest on the plane who Russia would like to detain.
True. Forgot about that. Great movie.
Surprised they didn't arrest any Americans onboard.
They need fresh hostages.
Did you ever think about all the diplomatic bs that is going to need to happen if your chat with the "authorities" doesn't go friendly? Despite reports, I would venture to guess the State dept likely burned thru 7 or 8 figures getting ol Brittnay back.. and remember Otto, that dumb kid who defaced a NK propaganda poster? Yeah, probably wasn't a cheap one either. Sometimes it ain't just about stopping you from visiting....
Assinine comment. Many Americans, like myself, are often in Russia and have no problems. The trick is to NOT break their laws. Simple as that. They're not some villains out to "get" ordinary Americans.
@Jesse And which of the recently detained Americans were breaking laws? Bottom line is, if you have any sort of profile you are vulnerable. And I speak from years of experience working there and seeing the changes first hand the past few years. You are being naive at best.
It's stuff like this that makes me wish for airspace to be neutral at least in the civilian level
I don't understand the desire to fly a commercial jet in any airspace that has or is adjacent to ongoing war. What am I missing? All it takes is an "errant" missile and Russia will point at Ukraine, Ukraine will point at Russia, and there are zero winners.
What am I missing? Are there rules of engagement? Do those rules actually do anything if so?
Adjacent to ongoing war is relative when were talking about a flight path that was at a distance from the Ukraine border probably greater than a transatlantic flight!
Not sure how you would define this. No flights that cross over Poland? Slovakia? Hungary? Also Israel, Jordan, Egypt etc
Lots of conflict in the world, even more countries that border that conflict.
As for the rules of engagement that's actually already covered in the Geneva Convention. As much propaganda that we are fed about Russia being the bad guys (and they are certainly not the good guys re: Ukraine) it's not in their...
Not sure how you would define this. No flights that cross over Poland? Slovakia? Hungary? Also Israel, Jordan, Egypt etc
Lots of conflict in the world, even more countries that border that conflict.
As for the rules of engagement that's actually already covered in the Geneva Convention. As much propaganda that we are fed about Russia being the bad guys (and they are certainly not the good guys re: Ukraine) it's not in their interest to upset the US and the rest of Europe.
If they want to force a plane to land to nab an outspoken Russian it's easy for the world to look the other way. If they start shooting down planes things will start getting heated real fast. (The first incident with the Malaysian flight was done by separatists which have Russia at least enough wiggle room to say let's not start a war over this)
This flight flew nowhere near to the disputed border. (Russia is large, spanning 11 time zones...)
You are missing Geography. Take a world map, look at the Northern Hemisphere and try to locate where Russia starts and ends.
I have commented before that US citizens should not be in Russian airspace. Anyone remotely thought valuable could be at risk for interrogation. This could go more sideways and I'll pray it does not.
The US govt should not prohibit its citizens from traveling anywhere. I am still pissed I cannot revisit North Korea. Assuming Russia renews my visa, I plan on returning on a visit next year. It is my problem if something happens, not anyone elses. I have been interrogated twice entering Russia, once from China and once from Kazakhstan. In both cases the officers were friendly - I can understand why they would be concerned about American travelers.
If you are arrested in Russia, you will cry wolf that the US government is not helping you. So, yes, you become our problem the moment you get in trouble in Russia and its likelihood is higher than many parts of the world.
Better to be arrested in Russia than get shot in America.
Indopithecus, Not sure about that. Most times one option is faster than the other and less painfull.
If one is arrested, the US govt does very little unless you happen to be someone they consider "important" for whatever reason. I have visited US citizens in foreign prisons and the best the govt could do was to give you a list of lawyers (they cannot recommend one) and try to ensure you are treated well. I have many Russian friends - I would rely upon them not the US govt.
Aeroflot flew from Seattle to Magadan and Khabarovsk back in the 1990s.
@JonW - Alaska Airlines also flew to Magadan in the 1990s and in fact Magadan is twinned with Anchorage.
To Michael ..you wrote Russia should be punished because if invading a sovereign country.... Dude America dropped nuclear bombs in Japan .... Destroyed Vietnam with napam ... Invaded Iraq on false accusations... Destroyed Syria and Libya. America should be taken to international criminal court
Do you know what sovereign means?
Why did the US stage a coup in a sovereign nation?
What's your point?
His point is that the USA is just as guilty, if not more guilty in some cases.
The only reason why no one goes after us is because the US Military is the most powerful force on the Planet and we control the narrative
Regardless, the whole war is a distraction and a waste of resources by a bunch of old US baby boomers (and the USSR equivalent) whose minds are stuck in the Cold War and neglect matters at home
Alam, if you think there is a moral equivalence between the U.S. and Russia, I recommend you move there for 5 years and report back to me. You'd probably be kicking and screaming at this point begging not to be sent to the front lines as a conscript to fight that war. You can safely criticize the U.S. government and its president. While you're at it, I recommend when you move there that you try...
Alam, if you think there is a moral equivalence between the U.S. and Russia, I recommend you move there for 5 years and report back to me. You'd probably be kicking and screaming at this point begging not to be sent to the front lines as a conscript to fight that war. You can safely criticize the U.S. government and its president. While you're at it, I recommend when you move there that you try criticizing the Russian government and its dear Leader, and report back to me. That irony seems to be lost on you. On the 79th anniversary of D-Day. So I ask again, what's your point comrade?
"... a bunch of old US baby boomers..."
Alam, you are ageist.
The US literally has a law on the books authorizing an invasion the international criminal court in the Hague if an American is put on trial for war crimes. Maybe we aren't the most responsible country in the world...
This is a very inauspicious start to Pride Month. There are probably dozens of LGBTQIA+ passengers on board returning home to the Pride capital of the world in SFO. Now they are stranded in remote Siberia under control of one of the most intolerant dictators on the planet. Let's pray for their safe return!
Clearly you have not been to India. LGBT issues are not in the forefront. These flight cater mostly to the huge number of tech workers in the Silicon Valley.
Do they get their own bathroom in the barracks?
“I’d be fascinated to know what the logistics were like of finding accommodation for 216 passengers and 16 crew members”
In middle of nowhere Siberia ? Im sure the locals have opened their homes and provided food and shelter as much as possible. Regardless a relief plane is already on the way. Maybe some Sukhoi mechanics can assist in fixing the maintenance issue of the 777.
Oh, there is plenty of accommodations near Magadan. Perhaps a bit more spartan than most of us are used to, but nevertheless spacious compared to many carriers' coach cabins. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag for some colorful details.
Given the plane's location before diverting, not sure if would have been almost same distance or slightly longer to cross the pole into an airport in arctic Canada or otherwise into Alaska!
This was also my first thought. But from the point the aircraft turned south to Magadan (GDX) the nearest US airport would have been Wiley Post/Barrow (BRW) about 1050 nm away, while GDX was only 650 nm. Also Barrow (and as well Deadhorse/Prudhoe Bay and Nome) has only a relatively short runway (7100ft) while Magadan has much longer one (11326ft). So I guess the longer distance and shorter runway were the reason why they decided against Barrow.
The US military would have been at the airport within 2-3 hours of landing to help take care of the passengers had they chosen to land on the shorter runway. Understandable that they'd be worry about braking with one engine but surely the wheel brakes and air brakes could have handled that, with Boeing just a few hours south to send up replacements.
BRW is a valid diversion airfield. Its runway was lengthened some years ago for this express purpose. GDX probably was the closest. BRW would certainly have been easier logistically though. They have an established plan for just this type of contingency.
It's a test for Russia, the US, and India on how they react to this situation, allowing passengers to fly quickly to San Francisco. I hope the governments will work this out swiftly without inconveniencing the passengers.
More kool aid, Mikey? It wouldn't hurt to do some research going back to let's say...2014???
Just sayin'
What about it? Russia did exactly the same in 2014 when they annexed Crimea, and not only the Obama administration, but the rest of the world let them get away with it, when they should not have. This is why they tried to take the rest of Ukraine's territory. I'm fine with 2022 response, including banning all use of their airspace.
Why was it ok for the US to support a coup against the democratically elected govt of Ukraine in 2014? This is about as undemocratic as one can be.
You're spouting Russian propaganda talking points. I would not take anything the Russian government says about the 2014 protests and removal of the president as gospel. Last I checked, in democracies you're allowed to protest. And the president fled the country and was subsequently removed by a unanimous vote from parliament. In any case, I would not allow U.S. bound flights to cross Russian airspace, nor do I have a problem with how the rest...
You're spouting Russian propaganda talking points. I would not take anything the Russian government says about the 2014 protests and removal of the president as gospel. Last I checked, in democracies you're allowed to protest. And the president fled the country and was subsequently removed by a unanimous vote from parliament. In any case, I would not allow U.S. bound flights to cross Russian airspace, nor do I have a problem with how the rest of the world is punishing Russia. But you do you, comrade.
And you are not spouting American talking points?
!@Indopithecus, what is it a talking point? All I've done is state facts. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them talking points. OP is stating there was a coup against a democratically elected government. There wasn't. You are drawing a moral equivalence between Russia and the U.S. That you can sit here and openly criticize the U.S, which you are absolutely allowed to do, but can't do the same if you lived in...
!@Indopithecus, what is it a talking point? All I've done is state facts. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them talking points. OP is stating there was a coup against a democratically elected government. There wasn't. You are drawing a moral equivalence between Russia and the U.S. That you can sit here and openly criticize the U.S, which you are absolutely allowed to do, but can't do the same if you lived in Russia, and then saying they are both the same, seems to be an irony lost on you. It tells me you know nothing about living under a dictatorship. You oughta try it first.
It seems to me that the US would have an interest in NOT making an exception for this flight. The government is already annoyed at foreign carriers overflying Russia on US-bound flights. Forcing this flight into a lengthy diversion back to India or wherever would be a way of saying "That's the risk you run if you overfly Russia on these flights."
The US needs India as an ally against China. No point burning bridges to make a point over Russia, which is less systemically important.
I wonder if part of the conditions of the US allowing the Air India flight to operate from Russia to the US will be that they’re no longer allowed to fly in Russian airspace on US-bound flights from Thursday onward?
Such a condition is an excellent idea! Now let's assume that's implemented and some carrier ignores the directive and then needs to divert to, Hawaii or Guam, do we force them to land in international waters?
I've not looked at any routes that would necessitate such a diversion, but I find the prospects politically intriguing.
Actually, that airport
has quite a bit of traffic according to https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/gdx
with B77W serving a flight to Moscow.
They're gonna be fine.
Comparisons to Britney Griner/Roman Protasevich not valid - first one was dumb enough to bring the greens to Russia, second one had an entire plane diversion operation planned by Lukashenko of Belarus and in Belarus, not by Putin of Russia and in Russia.
If anything, Putin will use this one to show off to everyone just how humane and helpful he is.
Legality of setting up a flight...
They're gonna be fine.
Comparisons to Britney Griner/Roman Protasevich not valid - first one was dumb enough to bring the greens to Russia, second one had an entire plane diversion operation planned by Lukashenko of Belarus and in Belarus, not by Putin of Russia and in Russia.
If anything, Putin will use this one to show off to everyone just how humane and helpful he is.
Legality of setting up a flight from Magadan to SF (lmao, agree with Lucky, this is one hell of a route) is another thing, but hopefully the US will make some kinda exception and everything goes smooth there too.
Comparisons to Britney Griner/Roman Protasevich not valid until a person of interest boards one of these flights. All it takes is a Russian operative casually boarding the same flight and faking chest pains or other medical emergency over Russian airspace. Never underestimate the lengths to what a police state lead by a former KGB agent will go to.
The relief plane can take the passengers back to India, worst case.
Ton of traffic between SFO and DEL, BLR and BOM. Used to be via Europe but baggage fiasco at virtually all European airports have made the non stops a better alternative. Now some may transfer at NRT on ANA or Take SQ. Let’s see
You're totally forgetting the ME3! There are 3 (emirates, Etihad, Qatar) lovely airlines between India and USA that treat their passengers significantly better than Air India ever has or will. No baggage issues or strikes to worry about. I agree that EU is not a suitable transit point for most between India and USA though, the strikes won't stop! and the complicated transit rules for Indian passport are annoying for transiting EU.
Since India and Russia are BFFs i expect/ hope that it ends well for the passengers. The bigger question is what happens to the aircraft as spare parts or spare engine cannot be ferried to Russia due to sanctions.
I guess we'll hear more of the story when the passengers actually land in the US.
I have had a bad feeling about Air India and polar routes for a long time, and it felt odd that such a poorly run airline would attempt such an incredibly bold route over the arctic. I doubt their crew have been trained for the regional concerns at all. Thankfully they were able to divert in this case, and they weren't more near the pole where perhaps that wouldn't have been an issue.
I hope...
I have had a bad feeling about Air India and polar routes for a long time, and it felt odd that such a poorly run airline would attempt such an incredibly bold route over the arctic. I doubt their crew have been trained for the regional concerns at all. Thankfully they were able to divert in this case, and they weren't more near the pole where perhaps that wouldn't have been an issue.
I hope that, again, the US gives the Indian aviation authorities a stern talking to about maybe not ferrying its citizens across a hostile country while not maintaining their aircraft to levels suitable for arctic crossings. I can't forget the time India blocked foreign airlines from entering during covid while pushing Air India to nearly full operational levels to "evacuate" citizens and the DOT finally told them to knock it off or lose landing rights
Just a tiny bit too dramatic - Air India is poorly run for sure but they have decades of experience flying these routes with very well trained crew and they don't cancel just because some lazy, entitled crew members (like US carriers) refused to operate citing first world problems. I'll be damned if this doesn't go smoothly from this point onward. Wait and watch.
There was literally a situation a month ago where pilot let his girlfriend in the cockpit and demanded the FA make her comfortable. This was an Air India international flight. This is by definition not "very welltrained" and it's very entitled. This is not an airline that should be flying US citizens over Russia. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/ai-pilot-in-dock-for-inviting-female-friend-to-living-room-cockpit-on-dubai-delhi-flight/articleshow/99660039.cms
I have no systemic issue with Indian airlines nor Indian pilots. IndiGo and Vistara are fantastic. Air India is not.
There was literally a situation a month ago where pilot let his girlfriend in the cockpit and demanded the FA make her comfortable. This was an Air India international flight. This is by definition not "very welltrained" and it's very entitled. This is not an airline that should be flying US citizens over Russia. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/ai-pilot-in-dock-for-inviting-female-friend-to-living-room-cockpit-on-dubai-delhi-flight/articleshow/99660039.cms
I have no systemic issue with Indian airlines nor Indian pilots. IndiGo and Vistara are fantastic. Air India is not.
It's absurd that we haven't banned the use of Russian airspace by foreign carriers operating routes to the US. This sort of thing could be all manner of catastrophic, not to mention that we shouldn't reward foreign governments for cozying up to Russia by offering special advantages to their flag carriers.
You are aware that Russia is the largest country in the world right ? Nearly impossible to fly ultra long haul avoiding its air space for some carriers.
And yet the entire US commercial aviation sector manages this "nearly impossible" feat while flying to destinations around the globe.
Free trade and laissez-faire regulations are all dandy until a country does something you don't want? Is that how it works?
Look, the US is well within its rights to do whatever it wants with respect to its aviation industry, and that includes regulations on foreign airlines that wish to land in the US. But then don't cry when other countries do the same for their own reasons.
There is no more danger to passengers...
Free trade and laissez-faire regulations are all dandy until a country does something you don't want? Is that how it works?
Look, the US is well within its rights to do whatever it wants with respect to its aviation industry, and that includes regulations on foreign airlines that wish to land in the US. But then don't cry when other countries do the same for their own reasons.
There is no more danger to passengers overflying now vs. a year ago before the Ukraine invasion. The US is banning overflights in order to punish Russia, not for any safety reasons. And if they ban foreign airlines from using Russian airspace, it's purely to protect domestic carriers from "unfair competition".
Fair enough. So when China restricts flights to prevent its citizens from spending their tourist dollars in the US (Which it's doing right now), the US shouldn't cry about it (which it's doing anyway). And if/when UAE, or India, or whomever, implements regulations to protect their airlines from US competition, then let's not cry about it either. After all, if airspace restrictions can be used to advance unrelated foreign policy goals, why be surprised when other countries do it for their own national goals?
Lol yes that is exactly how it works when that "something I don't want" is the unprovoked invasion and pillaging of a sovereign nation. And I don't even know where to start with the denial of opportunistic hostage-taking since the invasion of Ukraine; if you don't read the news, I can't help you.
I'm flying the SFO-DEL route on Saturday. Hope I don't get Britney Griner'ed/Roman Protasevich'ed.
Real talk though, Kirby just warned of this situation happening, this would be a political prisoner wet dream for Putin.
But the idea to ban foreign airlines from flying over Russian airspace is incredibly wasteful. People are already talking about reducing their carbon footprint and now we are forcing airline companies to purposely fly hundreds more kilometres than they need to for a political statement. What ever happened to saving the planet?
By this logic we can let foreign and terrorist states do whatever they want so long as the net carbon footprint is negative. Russia invaded a sovereign country and they must be punished, no matter the consequences.
The US staged a coup in Ukraine in 2014 that overthrew a democratically elected govt. There would be no war today if the US had supported democracy in the first place.
You know what's even more incredibly wasteful? Fighting a war.
If you would look at the flight route map, you will see that AI173 flew not direct but rather the long way around the west end of China. Because India-China politics. So don't forget to bemoan that too.