You wouldn’t expect to see Air China operating a route between Spain and Cuba, but that’s exactly what’s about to happen, as flagged by AeroRoutes.
In this post:
Air China launches Beijing to Madrid to Havana route
As of May 17, 2024, Air China will launch a new 2x weekly flight from Beijing (PEK) to Havana (HAV) via Madrid (MAD). The route will be operated by a Boeing 787-9 with the following schedule:
CA865 Beijing to Madrid departing 7:00AM arriving 12:45PM
CA865 Madrid to Havana departing 2:45PM arriving 6:30PM
CA866 Havana to Madrid departing 11:55PM arriving 3:30PM (+1 day)
CA866 Madrid to Beijing departing 5:30PM arriving 10:30AM (+1 day)
The entire journey between Beijing and Havana covers a distance of 10,378 miles, with the first sector covering 5,734 miles, and the second sector covering 4,644 miles.
The flight between Madrid and Havana is a fifth freedom route, so you could fly the airline exclusively between those two cities. That’s not even Air China’s only fifth freedom flight out of Madrid, as the airline also flies to Sao Paulo (GRU).
For context, this Havana flight represents a service resumption to Cuba for Air China, though with a different route. Between 2015 and 2020, Air China operated a 3x weekly flight from Beijing (PEK) to Havana (HAV) via Montreal (YUL). That was also a fifth freedom flight, so flying from Montreal to Havana on Air China sure was an interesting option.
The Madrid to Havana route sure is a competitive one, as it’s already served by Air Europa, Cubana, Iberia, and World2Fly. Gosh, what I’d give to fly Cubana on that route (purely from an avgeek perspective!).
What’s Air China’s logic for flying to Cuba?
I can’t imagine this route is primarily motivated by commercial viability, though perhaps it won’t perform too poorly, given that it’s a fifth freedom route. There’s demand between Beijing and Madrid, and there’s demand between Madrid and Havana, so perhaps Air China won’t have issues filling seats, even if the yields aren’t great.
But I have to imagine the primary motivation here is political, and that this is about having a direct(ish) link between China and Cuba. That’s the only logical explanation, since it’s not like there’s much tourism demand between the two countries. Cargo is probably also a consideration, though I imagine that’s secondary.
Air China is far from the only airline to operate routes like this that are primarily politically motivated. For example, look at the long haul network of Conviasa, a Venezuelan airline. The company has flown between Caracas (CCS) and Damascus (DAM), Moscow (VKO), and Tehran (IKA). I think everyone can decide for themselves why those routes exist.
Bottom line
Air China is resuming service to Cuba, as the airline is adding a route from Beijing to Madrid to Havana. Before the pandemic, the airline flew from Beijing to Montreal to Havana, so this marks a service resumption. Flying Air China between Spain and Cuba has to be one of the more unusual fifth freedom flights out there.
What do you make of Air China’s new Cuba route?
Cuba can’t get technology from the west. The only new tech they get is Chinese. Cargo is first for this route, passengers second. I’ve seen it all first hand.
I've flown on their YUL-HAV leg around during the Thanksgiving season of 2016. The flight was empty as hell, with probably 70 people across all 3 cabins in their 311-seat 777-300ER on the YUL-HAV flight, and 40ish on return.
I'm assuming part of the reason for the pathetic load factor back then is that Canada requires transit visas for both Chinese and Cuban citizens, so people would rather fly via Europe when traveling between these...
I've flown on their YUL-HAV leg around during the Thanksgiving season of 2016. The flight was empty as hell, with probably 70 people across all 3 cabins in their 311-seat 777-300ER on the YUL-HAV flight, and 40ish on return.
I'm assuming part of the reason for the pathetic load factor back then is that Canada requires transit visas for both Chinese and Cuban citizens, so people would rather fly via Europe when traveling between these 2 countries unless they work for the Chinese government, state-backed enterprises, or are government-sponsored students (surprisingly there're about 3k Chinese students in Cuba, studying Spanish or Medicine, and most of them receive Chinese scholarship).
Hopefully the new route, with less frequency and no visa restrictions, would work out for them.
Lucky, you should review that Cubans flight. I suggest to review the approved 12 travel categories:
https://cu.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/traveling-to-cuba/
not to blow on democracy, but i think for the past 2 decades, China as authtorian state have helped much of third world country in term of basic infrastracture. Look at Maldive for example, I go there every 3 to 4 years , everytime upon my arrival, I'm stunned by the new infrastructure build out from cross island bridge, sea water osmosis , LNG storage hub, to up coming air terminal and runway built out...
not to blow on democracy, but i think for the past 2 decades, China as authtorian state have helped much of third world country in term of basic infrastracture. Look at Maldive for example, I go there every 3 to 4 years , everytime upon my arrival, I'm stunned by the new infrastructure build out from cross island bridge, sea water osmosis , LNG storage hub, to up coming air terminal and runway built out from team China. evidently given their local presidential and paliment elections its obvious reason they dumped team India for Team China. I am not speaking as fan of communist , but it is what it is what they're doing on their modern sphere of influence vs Western influences under fire arm and canons in the last century.
Makes sense. Cuba is a holiday destination for Europeans. This just adds to the choice. Beautiful country. There is probably a healthy demand for flights, esp from Spain.
Interesting that they will fly over Russia.
Why not? It is a Chinese airline.
It is definitely political. At the end of the day, both countries are communist and unfortunately, Spain is on their way since they are so big in socialism.
The U.S. should cut all flights to Cuba.
Ridiculous.
Wondering whether is Air China re-launching PEK-IAH-PTY flights too. I heard that they used to fly this route since 2018. Does anyone know?
Unlikely in the near future. Flight slots between US (Canada as well) and China are hard to come by nowadays and I don't think IAH is CA's priority. That's why both its 5th freedom flights are via MAD now.
São Paulo too. After 4 years Air China is coming back to South America (GRU), also with a stop in Madrid.
@Ben -
"CA866 Havana to Madrid departing 11:55PM arriving 3:30PM (+1 day)
CA866 Madrid to Beijing departing 5:30PM arriving 10:30AM (+1 day)"
I think that last flight arrives 2 calendar days after departing, not 1 day.
It does but there are 2 +1s and each one refers to the departure of that particular leg!
I heard that if you have been to Cuba recently, you gonna have trouble applying visa entry to US.
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Jason Wong Guest
April 22, 2024, 3:16 pm
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Andy Diamond
April 22, 2024, 4:06 pm
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Ricardo Guest
April 22, 2024, 4:47 pm
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2 more repliesVisiting Cuba has no effect on you getting a US visa.
But, visiting Cuba since January 12, 2021 will prevent you from getting an Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) .
If you have visited Cuba, you can't get an ESTA and you now have to go through the annoying process of getting a visa. Which you are fully eligible for.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=How%20does%20Cuba%E2%80%99s%20designation%20as%20a%20State%20Sponsor%20of%20Terrorism%20impact%20my%20travel%20to%20the%20United%20States%20using%20my%20approved%20ESTA%3F%20
Visiting Cuba has no effect on you getting a US visa.
But, visiting Cuba since January 12, 2021 will prevent you from getting an Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) .
If you have visited Cuba, you can't get an ESTA and you now have to go through the annoying process of getting a visa. Which you are fully eligible for.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About%20ESTA%20and%20The%20Visa%20Waiver%20Program&answerToDisplay=How%20does%20Cuba%E2%80%99s%20designation%20as%20a%20State%20Sponsor%20of%20Terrorism%20impact%20my%20travel%20to%20the%20United%20States%20using%20my%20approved%20ESTA%3F%20
True. However, one of my co-workers made the mistake to travel to Cuba for vacation in January 2023. When he had to travel to the US for work last October, he applied for a visa four months before, in June. He could not get an interview appointment on time, in fact he’s now scheduled to have the interview in late May 2024, almost twelve months after applying …
Your friend is lucky. I wait 18 months for the ten seconds interview to renew my US Visa, despite having entered (and left) the US twenty times in the last ten years.
How many European, Asian and North African countries have embassies in Havana? How else are diplomats and their families going to get there? It's not a daily flight, it's only twice a week. Government and NGO employees will fill the seats.
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Eskimo Guest
April 22, 2024, 12:59 pm
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Icarus Guest
April 22, 2024, 1:21 pm
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Ross Guest
April 22, 2024, 3:40 pm
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Ben Holz Guest
April 22, 2024, 2:41 pm
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3 more repliesVia the almost dozen daily flights from Miami?
Almost every major country has a mission in Havana.
Air France as well as Air Europa, Condor, Iberia, Iberojet already fly from Europe. AF used to operate around 12 weekly pre Covid and its now around 3.
Yes, the point I was making is that almost every major country has a mission in Havana. Many of their diplomats and consular officials don't want (or can't) transit in Miami. And how many represent countries that are more aligned with China, which is giving the group billions in aid and loaning it even more, than with France? Compare the alternatives when choice of payment in yuan or euros is at top of the list.
Highly doubt that diplomatic and NGO demand alone could satisfy this route. Political move at best, with cargo probably not playing an insignificant role (not only from Cuba to China, but also the other way).
And just to finally add to what Eskimo and Icarus have said... CA would be the most inconvenient alternative for just about anyone looking to connect (bar those with PEK as their final destination). I wonder if passengers need to...
Highly doubt that diplomatic and NGO demand alone could satisfy this route. Political move at best, with cargo probably not playing an insignificant role (not only from Cuba to China, but also the other way).
And just to finally add to what Eskimo and Icarus have said... CA would be the most inconvenient alternative for just about anyone looking to connect (bar those with PEK as their final destination). I wonder if passengers need to exit the plane in MAD (which I believe they do), at which point the value of it decreases considerably. With very limited connection opportunities in MAD for those traveling onwards within Europe or to Africa/West Asia and the necessity to do a double connection for those in the Far East, AF/TK (heck, even IB/UX for EU-Cuba) are probably the better alternatives, even accounting for the latter's detour stop in CCS on the eastbound flight.
Gotta support your fellow comrades in oppression and human suffering.
At least they don't excuse it on democracy and freedom unlike some countries.
China has its eye on Cuba’s cobalt and nickel reserves for sure! and anything else that comes along is a bonus including tourism and political brinkmanship.
It could well possibly be cargo.
Have any of you ever seen the amount of cargo between MIA and HAV?
New Axis gonna branch out
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Mason Guest
April 22, 2024, 1:21 pm
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FlyerDon Guest
April 22, 2024, 8:00 pm
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Alan Smithee Guest
April 23, 2024, 1:11 am
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Mason Guest
April 23, 2024, 9:17 am
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SA Guest
April 22, 2024, 3:40 pm
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Eskimo Guest
April 22, 2024, 8:17 pm
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5 more repliesWhy would they be the New Axis? Because they like to violate human rights and oppress the democracy?
Have you seen what the US have been doing over the years? And no, I'm not even brining what's happening in Gaza.
If you think about it, there are no difference between what both have been doing, besides the scale. Yes, scales do matter, but wouldn't it be absurd to criticize others' and justify theirs,...
Why would they be the New Axis? Because they like to violate human rights and oppress the democracy?
Have you seen what the US have been doing over the years? And no, I'm not even brining what's happening in Gaza.
If you think about it, there are no difference between what both have been doing, besides the scale. Yes, scales do matter, but wouldn't it be absurd to criticize others' and justify theirs, just because their ones are comparably minor?
Funny to see this political side getting as patriotic as your opposition, when they want to hate some country.
I don't even like CCP, and in fact am pretty against them. However, the US criticizing them is a pure nonsense.
Maybe you could reprogram and then rewrite your comments.
Ok Yang ‘Mason’ Xiang. Try not to sound so ESL when spreading that propaganda, it gives you away.
@Alan Smithee
Wow, just because "you think" I wrote something positive about China you think I'm some CCP agent? Isn't "assuming" races and making fun of a one's English skill a racism according to you liberals? Maybe it's okay to be racist when you think you're dealing with "a government agent from an East Asian country who discriminates both nationals and foreigners and funds countries who destroy democracy and human rights (as well as themselves...
@Alan Smithee
Wow, just because "you think" I wrote something positive about China you think I'm some CCP agent? Isn't "assuming" races and making fun of a one's English skill a racism according to you liberals? Maybe it's okay to be racist when you think you're dealing with "a government agent from an East Asian country who discriminates both nationals and foreigners and funds countries who destroy democracy and human rights (as well as themselves doing it)"?
I swear, liberal double standards never fail to amaze me.
A racism is a racism, period.
And I'm not a US citizen or whatsoever, and English isn't my first language, but you might wanna check how many people in the world are multilingual.
Lastly, don't worry. I'm not reporting you to Chinese police or something. Why would I like them given that I know they treat Mao as a national hero after he made making 50M people die?
I feel sorry imagining about how miserable your life would be.
Axis, allies, tomato tomaaaato.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/asia/us-land-attack-missile-philippines-china-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
Let’s just hope there’s not gonna be another Cuba missile crisis.
@SA
Why afraid of missiles now.
So many puppet state got weapons (but never the good ones). Did we ever send weapons to countries that isn't in range of China or Russia? Can't remember the last time we sent weapons to New Zealand.