Marriott Reveals How Travel Packages Will Map To New Program

Marriott has finally revealed how Travel Packages will convert (this is something I’ve discussed endlessly here, and I finally pulled the trigger on two packages yesterday).

How Marriott Travel Packages will convert to new program

Here’s the chart showing how they’ll convert:

And here’s Marriott’s explanation of this pricing:

No existing Travel Package certificate is losing value in terms of points and, with the new Free Night Award Chart that goes live today, 70% of our hotels either stayed at the same redemption rate threshold or moved down. As we structured the conversion chart, we considered the introduction of peak and off-peak redemption rates, which will be introduced in early 2019. This means that if you have an existing Category 9 certificate, which converts to Category 6 starting today, holders will still be able to attach the certificate to a stay when redemption rates within that category are at their highest.

When it comes to converting, you can only book a particular category of hotel between now and the end of the year, and that category is indicated based on the first thing listed in the right column.

Then next year when they add peak and off-peak pricing, your certificate will be worth a certain points amount.

My take on Marriott’s Travel Package mapping

Marriott is actually being extremely unreasonable here.

On the most basic level, if you booked a Tier 3-5 certificate (the most expensive certificate possible) it won’t even be redeemable at Marriott’s most expensive properties come next year, when Category 8 hotels are introduced? How is that justifiable? At a minimum the most expensive certificate should be redeemable at the most expensive hotel going forward, no?

And then to map both Category 9 and Tier 1-3 certificates to Category 6 is unreasonable.

To be clear, Marriott Travel Packages were extremely generous, but that doesn’t mean we should settle for unreasonable mapping.

What’s odd here is that those of us with Category 9 or Tier 1-3 certificates might actually be better off waiting until next year to book. This year the certificate would be valid at a Category 6 property, while next year it would be redeemable at up to a Category 7 property in either off-peak or standard (but not peak) season. That’s because Category 8, as well as peak and off-peak pricing, is only being introduced next year.

The further big issue is the expectations that Marriott has created here. By intentionally not publishing the chart in advance (and clearly it was intentional, because they published it the day the new program went into effect), this led people to the logical conclusion that they were planning on being generous.

Marriott has a lot of unhappy people right now, and if their plan was to convert the certificates in this way, why didn’t they just tell us the mapping in advance?

You’d think they’d want to launch the new program with happy members, but this doesn’t do a whole lot to create that.

I’m curious, for those with outstanding certificates for Travel Packages, are you happy about the conversion rate?

I’d be surprised if many people are happy… which really makes you wonder what Marriott is hoping to accomplish here, especially with the lack of communication on this prior to today.

Comments

  1. Wow, this sucks! I thought for sure Cat 8 would map to new Cat 6 as that’s what happened to most hotels that I looked at (going from old 8 to new 6).

    Makes me glad I attached it to a reservation otherwise I’d be screwed.

    Don’t even want to look at FT thread right now. People must be very upset.

  2. Are we 100% sure there’s no more ability to upgrade at all? The reason I bought Cat 1-5 certificates was because of this ability. At the time of calling, I was assured this would be possible if I wanted to redeem for a higher category later. To change this feature now would be clear misrepresentation.

  3. I got hosed huge on a cat 6 as well. Nobody can botch a combined program like Marriott. Why they think that burning their customers is a good beginning is beyond me.

  4. No problem here. I booked 3 cat 5 TPs figuring they would map exactly as they did. I have plans for all 3 and am happy about all the UA miles I got. Not bad at all for 90k SPG points for each package and now I can use one of them at a Westin I had my eye on. Hope everyone enjoys yheir stays.

  5. This is spin. It is not generous. They have spun the category changes from the Spring in such a big way. How do you like getting 50% off of something I marked up 100% last week? Huge savings…or not. When you account for the inflation of the new program, this makes for a week argument and terrible result. These are equal only if you don’t consider the inflationary devaluation of the program. Please call them out on this stuff.

  6. @ Jack — I’m not sure what you’re not believing here? A Marriott PR person sent it to me directly. Not sure why you don’t believe that, because I’ve been in touch with them all day (see previous posts). 😉

  7. Well you should call marriott and tell them they are assholes.

    What do you have to lose? I got hosed on cat6 too. They should let us downgrade to lower level.

    Though they did exactly how it works on real life. The liberals love the poor, Republicans love the rich and everyone in the middle is screwed.

    Eff Marriott. Eff Republicans

  8. Bought a Cat6 and a Cat8… doh. This whole thing leaves such a sour taste in one’s mouth.They could have shared this months ago and saved so many people the grief. Things could be worse, but taking everything into account I think my SPG/Marriott brand loyalty is gone.

  9. Wow Jack, I’ve posted negative comments on here, in what I think to be fairly polite/ respectful manner despite disagreeing strongly. You however deserve to be reported for being abusive and threatening. Wow. Get a life and show some basic human decency.

  10. I redeemed for 2x Cat 1-5 shortly before the transition. The real value was the 2x RT first class JAL flights from JFK to TYO that I got with the miles plus some AA miles I had on hand. While I was hoping for a generous mapping of old Cat 1-5 to new Cat 1-5 but the Cat 1-4 mapping is not terrible. I just wish they would allow upgrades. Does anyone know if they will allow me to book the redemption in someone else’s name or transfer the certificate?

  11. Marriott had really better being doing something for consolation for those who booked Cat6/Cat8 packages. They obviously had this planned out and withheld this information as loyal Marriott customers made choices for future stays. I booked a Cat6 and a Cat8 TPs and seems I could have saved myself 60k points had Marroitt been forthcoming. That’s not nothing and I’ll keep that in mind when making choices on cash stays going forward.

  12. On the FlyerTalk forum there is the typical mix of outrage on the one hand and I-told-you-so-ers on the other hand.

    To me, whether you gambled or not, the problem here is that Marriott decided not to communicate their decision in advance, though it is clear (now) that they had reached such a decision.

    The prevailing commonsense indicated that Marriott didn’t want to communicate an generous decision in advance in order to prevent a huge volume of Travel Package purchases. That is logical.

    What does not make much sense is for Marriott to have waited to communicate a not so generous decision until it was too late for customers to make any changes, in particular a decision that practically leaves three sets of customers (Cat. 6, Cat. 8 and Tier 1-3) in a worse position than customers who paid less for the same product. Marriott knew they were going to do precisely that, and could have given prior notice but chose not to (and if they had done so, they could have also stopped all of the speculation on this issue which has been flying around the blogosphere over the past 4 months).

    Let’s see what happens here. Maybe they will come to their senses and offer 30k refunds to the customers which are worse off compared to their fellow customers (or some other solution).

    Whether you think people were right or wrong to gamble on these packages, from a customer service perspective, Marriott has failed miserably in the handling of this component of the merger.

  13. Someone should sue them. If they released it on 8/18 then they were just sitting on the conversion chart till all flexibility was gone.

    Bad faith!

    Eff Marriott. Eff Republicans. Eff Tyler 🙂

  14. Wow thats BS. Im glad I attached my Cat 9 cert before the change. Because now, the hotel i attached it for is cat 7. So the hotel i was able to book yesterday would be out of reach now. Thought the options would expand, not contract. Ridiculous.

  15. Hopefully a social media firestorm will burn some pain into them and maybe they will reconsider the mapping?

  16. at least Marriott should let people upgrade or downgrade category with points based on old chart if they are doing something like this.

  17. I upgraded my Cat 8 to Cat 9 last week and attached to Domes of Elounda (currently 60K, will be 85k in 2019). I will be curious to see if I detach my certificate in Feb if it will drop from 85k down to 60k.

  18. This is my “worst case scenario” from the realistic options for mapping. I assumed things weren’t going to be super rosy, so only booked old Cat 1-5, as the only for sure value we knew was that Cat 5 would become the new Cat 4. I did have a Cat 6 that I pulled from a reservation (we no longer need that stay), and so I hoped, and still do, that we would get our points refunded for that should those also map to Cat 4. I really think that is fair treatment.

    We have 3 certs, and plan to use all of them next year.

  19. Its a shame Marriott chose to conceal the TP mapping. It led to speculative category redemptions and now there are bound to be many who did not get the category mapping they were hoping for and there is no changing these certificates.

    I’m glad I locked in my one Cat 9 already for a stay. My Cat 1-5 I knew would map to Cat 1-4, it was everything in between that left me and everyone else guessing.

    This is poor business practice by Marriott to not release the TP category mapping in advance, especially now in hindsight.

  20. Lucky, I would like your opinion on something. You wrote – “What’s odd here is that those of us with Category 9 or Tier 1-3 certificates might actually be better off waiting until next year to book. This year the certificate would be valid at a Category 6 property, while next year it would be redeemable at up to a Category 7 property in either off-peak or standard (but not peak) season.”

    I understand the table differently. When you map to a certain category, it seems they are restricting by number of points and category. For e.g., cat 9 to cat 6 is the first restriction and the second one is the points band it will allow for. I see it as a double whammy.

  21. Why a max point value on the certificate? Does this mean we can upgrade ourselves to the next category with off peak travel? The cat. 1-4 books into a cat. 5 off-peak at 30k…..

  22. And I’m off to Hyatt… I didn’t get hosed, bought a Cat 1 to 5 ( or @lucky did I get hosed??!! Marriott has made such a mess of this, I’m completely confused).

    But I don’t want to give my loyalty to a program that’s run by people who don’t respect their customers. Or are incompetent. Or both.

  23. A follow up to my comment above – using my logic above, you would not be able to book a cat 9 cert for a cat 7 hotel.

  24. Everyone knew it was gamble. At the top end of the chart, you had to decide whether it was worth trading roughly $2,400 worth of airline miles for an incremental $3,000 to $5,000 in hotel stay value and a loss of length of stay flexibility.

    This site is failing to recognize that Marriott also has responsibility is to its property owners and shareholders. Mapping a Cat 9 Marriott to a new Cat 7 could have had catastrophic consequences for the property investors who signed franchise or management agreements with Marriott / Starwood and could have invited some pretty significant litigation due to the impact of low reimbursement rates from award night bookings.

  25. @ Jay — The max point value is because starting next year Marriott will have peak and off-peak pricing, so at that point each night will be valid for up to a certain points amount. There’s still not an option to upgrade or downgrade.

  26. Everybody does game. Marriott as well. There are too many people who have category 6 or 8 hoping for being upgraded.
    Of course, it makes them prone to devaluation. We all went through numerous devaluations and it is quite surprising to see many people who still don’t get it.

  27. @ Narayana S — I could be mistaken, but once the program goes to points-based amounts it’s my understanding that a certificate is valid up to what the maximum points value is, regardless of what category it’s in.

  28. If they announced this in advance, everyone would have upgraded/downgraded to cat 9. That’s why the didn’t announce in advance. Nearly everyone reading this blog made a conscious decision to take a gamble. If you bet on anything other than old cat 9, you lost. Better luck next time. Moreover, the extent of that “loss” is merely that you did not win. You didn’t actually lose anything – all certificates are worth at least as much (in terms of points per night) as they were yesterday.

  29. Will be very curious to see how many points we can turn in our Existing Certificates for – i.e., the surrender value for these 7 nite certs. I have One – Cat 5 & One – Cat 9. That is the last piece of this puzzle – wonder when they will clarify that. Given what they did here, I’m not holding my breath.

  30. Old Cat 6,8 and T1 got royally screwed. If people just sit on their hands & do nothing, Marriott will see this as short lived anger and hope the storm will die-down soon.

    But if people want to send Marriott a stern message, cancel ALL your future bookings in droves and make NO new bookings until they come up with a satisfactory resolution to this madness of theirbown making.

  31. I’m most entertained here again with the mapping of travel packages.

    Everyone has had 2 yrs to book travel packages–and use them–knowing that the merger was coming sometime at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019. The fact that the merger was announced in spring 2018 for sometime in August 2018 means that everyone had ample notice of things changing.

    If you wanted to book a travel package, you could. But most people were playing the speculation game–wanting to leverage for something with better value. That was a risk, and everyone knew it was a risk. Now that the risk has been revealed for what it is, people are whining.

    People invest in the stock market and revel when their stocks increase in value and whine when they decrease in value–even as they knew the risk going in. Barring the banks screwing people over, no one feels much sympathy when that happens.

    The same is true for Marriott travel packages. People knew the risk. Suck it up.

  32. @Lucky – Why provide the max point value in the graphic? It’s redundant, right or will the future purchase of the package be point based and not cat. based?

  33. A number of blogs including this one had “predicted” that Marriott would be generous with travel packages, and all their loyal readers went off and bought travel packages with the unrealistic expectation of an easy win.

    Of course, when Marriott (unsurprisingly) wasn’t so generous, we now have a bunch of point hoarders ready to riot because things didn’t go their way.

    The bloggers are always telling us never to speculatively transfer points or purchase points unless you have a set redemption in kind, in this case, the bloggers let their greed override the very golden rule they’ve always advocated.

  34. I’m thinking Marriott needs the month to gage how upset people really are. I think they will place a mechanism to let people upgrade or downgrade. I myself got a cat 6 in the last minut and am not happy obviously.

  35. @Bill “The same is true for Marriott travel packages. People knew the risk. Suck it up.”

    I think the point is Marriott could have been forethcoming and eliminated all the risk and speculation. Instead a lot of brand loyal people (speculatively booking or not) redeemed significantly more points than they needed to. I guess it’ll be seen how that impacts their bottom line, but it’s certainly going to make many TP purchases (who clearly earned a lot of MR through whatever means) second guess their loyalty.

  36. If they publish this map earlier, maybe people will tend to upgrade to cat 9, but does Marriott lose anything? The owner will lose anything? No! Because they can lock some days for award redemption, but you have to have 7 days of award availability to use these certificates. For devaluation people can take but without notice is the terrible part.

  37. This is disgusting, they deliberately hide this information so that people may waste additional 30k points for cat6 and cat8 packages. If people know this earlier no one will redeem cat6 and cat8 over cat5 and cat7

  38. I think the mappings are just about acceptable (if a bit disappointing). The key thing missing is a 30k points refund for holders of Cat 6 and Cat 8 certificates.

  39. I’m disgusted by this. Marriott clearly knew what they were planning to do and didn’t tell us. More than one Marriott customer service team told me they would map over like for like. Cat 6 would be new cat 6 etc..

    I was told when I booked that I could upgraded at the time of booking a hotel if I wanted a higher cat. Now it seems that is no longer the case but there seems to have been no official announcement? They should have emailed everyone who held a TP and given a fair notice period.

    Great way to launch the new combined program Marriott, leg over your best customers..

  40. I’m mad !

    They said it wouldn’t be upgradable last minute so I rushed to upgrade my 2 certificates to cat 6.
    They knew that wouldn’t get me anything additional but they let me spent 60,000pts anyway.

    60,000pts !!

    I am so mad !

  41. Personally, I’m happy with my TP that I booked yesterday. Booked a Cat 6 for the JW Marriott Pho Quoc, which is now a Cat 5…I’d love to get some points back, but can’t say I’m terribly pissed. The 120k AS miles are much appreciated too.

    While I don’t give as much credence to TPG, I headed their precaution that said you’re crazy if you don’t attach it to SOME reservation. I did, and I’m thrilled with that decision because I’d be looking at a Cat 4 now.

    **My personal travel package aside, what Marriott just pulled is super shady and disingenuous; it certainly doesn’t make me feel good about the new program. I moved to SPG from Hilton years ago and will now consider going back (or Hyatt), even with ~700 nights total with Marriott/SPG.

  42. I had an employee in “Mr. Marriott’s Office” tell me on July 25th that my current Category 7 package would map to the new category 7 through the end of the year. After the announcement on the 30 day freeze I called MR and voiced my concerns over the possibility that I would be stuck with a Category 5 redemption. I was assured that I would be able to upgrade after integration. I am one ticked off Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite who is not going to let this one rest!

  43. Much like Trump, Marriott over promised and under delivered. This sucks and both royally screwed us!!

  44. I also bought a cat 8 thinking it would map to a new 6. I attached it to a cat 6 but I can’t keep that reservation on that date. Do we know if I can keep the same hotel if I reschedule it to a later date? Or will rescheduling effectively “cancel” my cert and drop me to a Cat 5?

  45. I got really lucky by upgrading from CAT 7 to CAT 9 yesterday before it all went down. I also have a CAT 1-5 TP which maps to CAT 1-4. I think it’s a gamble and sometime it pays off and sometime it doesn’t. It will be interested to see if SPG properties adopt Marriott’s style “no blackout date”.

  46. I do not like Marriott’s lack of transparency. If the tables were previously available, they should have shared before it was too late to make any changes or purchases. Marriott could have avoided angering elite members. I am more than disappointed that I paid an extra 30K for Tier 1-3. Let’s see if with enough colllaints, they reimburse members with unfair category matching.

  47. Do you think they would give 30k points back to those who got screwed? I bought a category 8 yesterday, but, do to technical issues, I couldn’t even book anything with it!

  48. The max points is basically saying you can’t use cat 7 for the peak awards
    – they are limiting the max spend back tothe hotels

  49. Any word on how many points we will receive if we cancel the hotel portion of the vacation package?

  50. Marriott at least needs to refund 30K points to people who bought cat 6, 8, and tier 1-3 packages.
    Paying different prices for the same product just because the final product was not revealed in advance is just ridiculous and it is simply wrong.

  51. Wow so glad I upgraded from category 6 to cat 7 super last minute. Man, that would have been a painful pill to swallow.

  52. Using the Peak pricing when there is only 50% of the certificate’s life would ever come across such as Peak pricing not become effective until 2019, is extremely UNREASONABLE.

    Just how Cat 6 can be lumped together with Cat 5 and still tell members this is a fair conversion? This is worse than a flat out lie.

    100% sure this conversion is NOT made up in just a few days. How can Marriott take people’s extra 30K to buy the Cat 6 and Cat 8, while fully aware these 30Ks would just be windfall to Marriott as it has not needed to “pay back” with corresponding value. People who plan to use their certs THIS YEAR in 2018, can easily get the Cat 5 or Cat 7 instead of forking over extra 30K to Marriott for nothing extra.

    That is VERY SLEAZY HANDLING.

    We also are not told what the residual value would be on the cancellation, but we were told cannot upgrade or downgrade the certs just a few days into the beginning of one month black out – Yet we were not told how these certs would convert.

    The whole purpose of extremely opaque communication and very last minute little information available to allow members to make an intelligent decision, is to generate the biggest breakage to take its point liability off the book.

    Very shameful to say the least.

  53. Marriott meetings

    Marriott: let’s not tell our customers some will get burned (old/new cats) do not lineup, let them guess tho we know the plan in advance, let’s block redemptions for a month and not let any one upgrade certs.

    employee: But our customers will be angry and not loyal after we F with them, Marriott: we now have 6k+ hotels they are staying with us no matter what one way or another (less choice) motel 6 keeps the light on…

    Yes I was greedy buying 2- 8 certs but they had info they did not want to share purposely

  54. @ lucky, could you find out when Marriott will share what happens to legacy certs attached to an existing reservation if a change is made?

    I have an old cat 8 attached to a property that is a new cat 7. If I cancel the reservation will I get the use of a new cat 7 cert to make a reservation at a like property? Will they for a downgrade to the new floater cert conversion? Or, something else?

    The new program is in effect. It is time for them to come clean on all the details they have been hiding.

  55. Sorry to be the contrarian, but this seems 100% reasonable to me. The people who are disappointed knowingly purchased packaged on speculation. Speculation fueled by an echo chamber of other points-savvy people who were equally unknowledgeable about how the packaged would be treated. It’s pure optimism about a bet that we would get a desired outcome. They never indicated a reason to be positive, or negative, or anything. There are reasons to be concerned about integration changes regarding the actual benefits and value from the program. This is not one of them. This has only ever been a way to try to take advantage of the system.

    I do think it would be better if they offered a purchase up option from 70k to 90k, but there was no guarantee that it would cover all properties…

    Not to mention that even 99%+ of top level members are not affected by this. Only a minute very small percentage of MR members have even heard of the packages, let alone were attempting to game the system during integration through this particular avenue.

  56. I upgraded to a category 6 right before the conversion and just lost 30,000 points. My logic was the my certificate would either be upgraded to a new Cat 5 or refunded 30,000 points because they were being so discreet about the conversion, the ONLY logical thought was they were going to be generous with the conversions, and the only logical way I would be worse off is if Marriott intentionally wanted to screw their customers. Low and behold, coroprate greed and corruption wins again. Seriously people, talk with your wallets. If they want to play this game, take your business elsewhere. Hilton and Hyatt just earned my business.
    Screw you, Marriott!

  57. Like @Ryan, I feel very lucky to have booked a Category 9 Travel Package and immediately redeemed for Domes of Elounda next May (and AS miles). It’s the first and only time I booked a TP. I still have 460,000 points left which my mother and I will use to stay at hotels along the southern coast of Spain.

  58. I’ll withhold judgement at the moment. Perhaps more details will leak out – like refunding me 30,000 points I used to upgrade to (old) Cat 6 TP.

  59. I bought a cat 6 and a cat 8 a month and a half ago from CSRs who assured me that I would be able to use them after the transition on the same hotels as I could prior to the transition. When I have read concerning opinions on blogs I have time and again called back to Marriott and been reassured time and again that even after the changeover:
    1. My package certificate will still be usable at the same hotels,
    2. I will be able to upgrade it if I so choose, and
    3. I will be able to extend them for a year if I want to.

    I feel like Marriott has betrayed my trust, and based on the timing, I feel that they did so deliberately. I need a couple days to figure out the best way to move forward, but I truly hope they seriously consider making this right and standing by all the assurances I was given.

  60. Marriott really screwed a lot of us. I have 2 cat 6 certificates. They should refund me 60k points. They do not care about customers, at least not like SPG. They purposely withheld this information in order to screw us. We should boycott and flock to Hilton or Hyatt. Make them pay.

  61. I’m one who totally gave Marriott the benefit of the doubt on why they weren’t releasing the mapping ahead of time…I was so wrong. I’m a LTPP with 100+ nights this year and am very frustrated. I called in and have a case # and if it isn’t resolved in the next week in a manner that is reasonable then I will be moving to plan B which will be scorched earth on social media plus moving to Hilton and their “free breakfast at any hotel”.

  62. @Lucky you said Cat9 and Tier1-3 holders are better off till next year as it can be redeemed up to 60k (which includes off peak and standard prices for new Cat7) however on the chart it shows that it is redeemable only up to new Cat6 (peak is 60k) which means that next year, it will still be only valid at Cat6 up to the peak price and will not be able to be redeemed at the new Cat7 even at off peak or standard rates. Clarification?

  63. bought cat 6 and only had enough points for one travel package. I wouldn’t be overly upset if there were any off peak hotels . B4 the system went down , there was a new category 5 hotel for 35k points. I checked every day of the month and every month into June 2019. Every day it showed 35k points. I would be okay if I were able to use my old cat to book a hotel in the off peak but there seems to be NO off peak dates available . Guess maybe it will happen after my TP expires. lol

  64. Lucky, I think you’re being a bit optimistic with this:

    “What’s odd here is that those of us with Category 9 or Tier 1-3 certificates might actually be better off waiting until next year to book. This year the certificate would be valid at a Category 6 property, while next year it would be redeemable at up to a Category 7 property in either off-peak or standard (but not peak) season. That’s because Category 8, as well as peak and off-peak pricing, is only being introduced next year.”

    Per the text that accompanied the published table:

    “As we structured the conversion chart, we considered the introduction of peak and off-peak redemption rates, which will be introduced in early 2019. This means that if you have an existing Category 9 certificate, which converts to Category 6 starting today, holders will still be able to attach the certificate to a stay when redemption rates within that category are at their highest.”

    This suggests that the new vouchers are Category-based (i.e. can be used in a particular Category for off peak/standard/peak), but not points based (i.e. so a new Cat 6 can’t be used for an off-peak Cat 7). That’s how I read the text, anyway. I think that the “max points value” figures in the table are meant to be illustrative of the maximum value that you can get from the certificate per night, which is rather devious given that Peak pricing hasn’t been implemented yet.

  65. Wow. Marriott is essentially giving a big obscene gesture to its members and customers.

    I get that this mapping scheme is for the most part “fair” (even though it’s really not fair to those with cat 6/8), but the real problem is that they intentionally withheld this information, and then sprung it when it’s too late to make any changes.

    Even worse I was told my multiple representatives in the Marriott Loyalty Care dept that the certificate would be good at the same category level once the transition occurred. While generous, it makes sense. My cat 7 certificate says it’s good at a cat 7 hotel. End of story. No point value no peak or off peak. Just good for a cat 7 hotel.

    We will see what happens, I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of angry customers

  66. I think those who commented on the “speculation”, “gambling” and *hoping “Marriott would do the right thing” have it right in that we were basing our future on a bunch of unknowns. It’s sort of crappy for all of the “I told you so crowd” to try and rub salt in the wounds but at the same time we had to make decisions (or no decision at all) based on a complete lack of planned non-transparency by Marriott. Anyone who paid attention to the first quarter devaluation of hotel categories, the comments by the VP to hotel owners of increased revenue and understanding of depreciation/ liability (or in this case, unused MR points) could sort of figure out the worse case and *try to plan around it.

    Personally, I am one of the losers in purchasing two Cat 8 packages. However, I still got a bunch of Alaska miles and read the countless blogs recommendations of attaching the certs to actual stays I may be able to use in the future. So, that’s what I did – booked two Cat 8 hotels with hopes of mitigating the downfall.

    Was really hoping to change to SPG hotels later as I that’s where I’m more comfortable but we’ll see how it goes post Sept. 18 on changes.

    And yes, Marriott really gambled (poorly, imo) on their customers’ loyalty with this one. If the loyalty program doesn’t give something back to those who’s certificates were really diminished, it could be enough to lose their loyalty. I’m sure Marriott has datasets showing that the Travel Packages are a fringe element of their customer base, but the power of the bloggers could tip those scales further.

    This is still very early in the transition and people should let it settle for a bit before moving to other programs as we can’t do anything to the certs for another month anyway. Most of us probably have status locks until 2020 anyway. No use jumping ship today.

  67. Booked a Cat 1-5 and Cat 7. Two days ago I was hesitating on whether or not to call in and downgrade my Cat 7 to a Cat 6 and ‘save’ myself 30k, really glad I didn’t do that! Agree with everyone, Marriott could have and still can handle this better. I expect a upgrade option or reimbursement from Marriott within the next few weeks for the Cat 6, 8, and Tier 1-3 certificates.

  68. “Furious” doesn’t even begin to describe it. Throw in “outraged,” “disgusted” and “appalled” for good measure.

    I am SO done with Marriott.

  69. I’m truly shocked that they decided to release this information so soon. It clearly shows they’ve known for a while and had taken the decision to withhold it. If they had waited a week it wouldn’t have looked so bad. It appears to me that they are either completely stupid in being unaware how bad this would look or they deliberately decided to stick 2 fingers up at their best customers.

  70. Just FYI, just now I cancelled my 7 night cat 6 certificate for 75k Marriott points. The refunded points are already in my account.
    I guess 75k SPG points for 120k AS miles is still not a bad conversion:/

  71. Have a Cat 1-5 and a Tier 1-3. So it’ll be a Cat 1-4 and a Cat 1-6. Meh.

    We’ll see if we can book Cat 7 off peak in January I guess but I’m not holding my breath.

  72. Hi Lucky,

    I recently upgraded my Category 1-5 to Category 6 as I just had the extra points to do so. I really didn’t overthink it, but I thought I would certainly get some extra value out of it in terms of hotel options. As it turns out, I get the same options as before and wasted 30K MR points.

    I am of the opinion, for what it’s worth, that this demonstrates bad faith on the part of Marriott, allowing me to pay more (or anyone else in a similar position) for the same product. They knew, whether they offered it to their agents or not, that I would be paying extra for no extra value.

    What do you think would be the most effective manner of voicing my frustration to Marriott to get a refund for the points I wasted? Twitter, Facebook, emails, another public forum? What’s your thought? Thanks.

  73. @jon – I have to agree, I don’t think there is any other explanation than they withheld the conversion chart explicitly to take advantage of customers like you. Very disappointing. Even if they change course and refund miles to me on my cat 8 certs I’ll know where there heart is and what they value…and it isn’t the customer. The PR person who thought this was a good strategy should be reassigned to the janitorial team at the Fairfield Inn in Juarez.

  74. You have to take a share of the blame here Lucky. You’ve been telling everyone that Marriott was highly likely to be generous for weeks, without knowing anything. Most people that booked these packages recently did it because bloggers promoted it like mad. Seems a bit irresponsible to me.

  75. Anyone interested in joining a class action – I couldn’t attach my cert because there wasn’t any availability at 4 different locations for 6 months!!!! I was put on and off hold waiting 4 hours on the phone!

  76. Less than 24 hours ago I spent nearly 4 hours across 2 phone calls to redeem 120k Marriott pts (4 x 30k) to upgrade my FOUR Cat 1-5 Travel Packages up to Cat 6 packages. Are you telling me that not only did I completely waste 4 hours of my life, but they also stole 120k of my Marriott pts for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return (granted I get an extra 3 months of certificate validity, but that’s all). I am BEYOND PISSED!!!

    I am tempted to call back and say the calls to upgrade these certs were unauthorized/fraudulent and to please reverse them. That is actually true for 2 of them since I called in and upgraded my wife’s 2 Travel Packages without her knowledge and consent.

  77. I booked a 7-day Cat 8 Hotel + Air Package a few days ago. I also booked a 3-day stay in Chicago at the Hotel Chicago Downtown, Autograph Collection a week or so ago. Monday I will be calling to complain about this new chart and holding the cancellation over their head to see what they do.

  78. > On the most basic level, if you booked a Tier 3-5 certificate (the most expensive certificate possible) it won’t even be redeemable at Marriott’s most expensive properties come next year, when Category 8 hotels are introduced?

    I could be misunderstanding Marriott, but I thought that the points-based values will be **replacing** the category-based values in 2019, not in addition to. So when the certs switch to being points-based instead of category-based, Off-Peak Category 8 will be bookable using an old Tier 3-5 cert…

  79. I just sent an email to David Flueck and Arne Sorenson about the Travel Package issue, lack of breakfasts at Ritz Carlton and resort properties, as well as suite upgrade concerns in new program. I encourage all people upset by this to do the same

  80. “Then next year when they add peak and off-peak pricing, your certificate will be worth a certain points amount.”

    Does it really mean a cat 9 becomes 60k points next year? Or a cat 9 simply remains as a new cat 6, regardless of peak or off peak? If it is the former, can u hv some official confirmation from Marriot?

  81. Wonder how this will affect the new Starwood Luxury Card? Amex might be a little disappointed when loyal SPGers who would apply go….meh.

  82. Some poor bastard went to sleep with a certificate good for a week in Hawaii (Cat 8) and woke up today with a free week at an airport Courtyard (new Cat 5)

  83. @g “I am tempted to call back and say the calls to upgrade these certs were unauthorized/fraudulent and to please reverse them.” – Great idea. Except claims of fraud tend to be investigated, and they have you recorded. My guess is they cancel your account entirely if you try this. As they should.

  84. Does anyone know is the residual value of canceled cert remains the same as in the past, i.e. 45K basic + 30K each category up incrementally?

    Website is up now.

  85. @Lucky, I too interpret Marriotts wording that you will be confined within the New Category. I believe your example is incorrect. A peak award at a Cat 6 is not the same as an off-peak at a Cat 7.

    Surpising that there are so many upset people here. On multiple occassions it was recommended to attach your certificate to maximize flexibily. Sorry you didn’t take heed. Had you attached your certificate to a reservation and under the New Chart, your reservation required fewer points, you could upon request get a refund of those points without a cancel/rebook.

    For those suggesting a cancellation of all their current reservations, please feel free to do so if you feel you have been harmed with a minor devaluation of the hotel portion of your package but keep in mind that with 115 Million accounts a few thousand unattached certificates is a mere grain of sand in a gravel pit.

    It has been most amuzing seeing everyone get caught up in the hype, partly fueled by a generous amount of probable “generous” outcomes generously justified by generous amounts of ill thought scenarios that were never supported by the numbers. Unfortunately, I think @Lucky himself got caught up in his own hype and possibly many of his readers have subsequently too. For me, the quality of his articles have suffered and this “sore loser,” “childish outrage” article further exemplifies it.

    @Lucky, if a Tier 4-5 certificate converts to a New Category 7, the highest category through early 2019, that covers all properties. No? Are you suggesting that no property ever required more points than a Ritz? In 2019 a 7 night Category 8 ranges from 420K-510K-600K. I don’t see that a Ritz Tier 4-5 covers a week at the St. Reegis in the Maldives.

    I purchased one TP in June, Cat 8 with points I already earned, attached it to a Cat 8 Marriott in Sydney Australia for a week in February 2019. The property is now a Category 5. A Sheraton within close proximity is also a Category 5.

    I have always been of the thought that if I was able to change to the former SPG property after the merge, it would be fantastic, if not I am still happy with my reservation.

    Yes, I paid 30K more points, but a small amount to secure a reservation that may not be available come September 18th. A simple insurance policy! However, I will get 30K points back eqivalent another award night at Cat 4 with 5K extra or a night at a Cat 5 with an extra 5K. Nice little bonus. Thank you Marriott.

    Did I ever think a category to catergory match was a possibility? Of course not! You shouldn’t expect to buy apples because they are cheaper and be able squeeze them for orange juice? Did I expect to get more value from my certificate and I wouldn’t be whole if I didn’t? Of course not! But I did. 😉

  86. I’m at the blackjack table tonight. I’ve get dealt 14, dealer has a 7. I take a hit and get dealt a 4. I stand. Guy next to me has 11 and doubles down, hits his blackjack. Dealer turns over an ace and stands. I walk away with what I say down with. But now I’m all pissed at the dealer for not giving me money, and at the guy next to me for winning.

  87. @g that is absolutely brutal. Worst I’ve heard yet, and I would be tempted to do the same but you really can’t… that wouldn’t go well.

    @hempworth. Cool story, not applicable. You didn’t lose value on that hand (some would even say you won) whereas cat 6/8 people lost value. And casinos are entirely transparent about the numbers… this was concealed.

  88. My gut feeling is the number of cat 6 and 8 floater certificates exceeds all others because most people think Marriott will be generous, as what Lucky has (mistakenly) pointed out several time. This will save Marriott money. Nevertheless Marriott is clearly in the wrong here. Withholding information, long call wait time, phone agents giving out false information, etc. Greed has poisoned Marriott. I’m glad Lucky is on the right side on this unlike Gary and TPG.

  89. Damn you, Marriott!! Maybe we should all complain about this to Marriott. I’m sure IF there is a huge outcry of complaints, they will do something about it.

  90. @Lucky Is it possible that Marriott actually wanted to lose the elites who understand points enough to book Travel Packages regularly? Or speculatively.

    Otherwise it’s a massive “own goal” (for anyone who plays soccer).

    Also, if Marriott didn’t like the outstanding value that these packages represented, why were they available for years?

    They must have realised how elites would feel about this? Why did they not care? Could it simply be a Finance guy looking at the potential Profit and Loss and not talking to a Marketing guy? This could have been such a huge win for them.

    Why CHOOSE bad publicity?

  91. Is the expiration date the same as original, or is it being extended? If it is being extended, until what date please?

    How about credit card free nights, in my case the Marriott chase Canada one and the Starwood Canada American Express ones , category 1-5 for the now defunct Canada chase card, and up to 10000 spg points for the American Express card, what is the status of those certificates ? Points? Free nights? Category? Expiration date? Or information sometime in the future.

  92. @Mattt. Cat 6/8 people didn’t lose value. They had a cert for 7 nights at a hotel that would cost 30/40k a night, and still have the exact same thing. Might not be good at the exact same hotels, but that is because of the category changes, not the conversion (hence the heads up to attach in advance). The fact that others (1-5/7/9/1-3) have something more valuable than what they had previously doesn’t mean you somehow magically lost some value.

  93. The one truly unambiguous screw job was the announcement right before the conversion, on a forum post, and directly contravening numerous CSRs that the new packages cannot be upgraded and downgraded.

  94. @ SPGnomore

    Agree. I did 4 TPs with 3 Alaska and 1 UA with 1-5 CAT. Had enough points to do a cat 6 and one at a cat 8, but held off. Glad I did, but feel for the ones that basically got screwed out of points. The higher level packages aren’t worth it to me as there is a Ritz that I can stay at for 1/2 there normal rate so in that case I’ll pay for it.

  95. @Hempworth
    You are being misled by the con job Marriott is doing, using the Peak point requirement of the hotels yet the Peak pricing is NOT effective UNTIL EARLY 2019 (there is not even an exact beginning date for that!)
    Using the STANDARD point value Cat 6 is converted to new Cat 1 to 4, for 25K point level hotels instead of 30K point level hotels the cert should be for, during the remainder of 2018.

    In fact ALL categories holders are SHORT CHANGED if they redeem their hotels at the Off Peak pricing next year because now the Category has a POINT RANGE which is for example, 20K to 30K for a Cat 1 to 4 certificate.

  96. Here are 2 lone DPs I have come across so far –

    May be we should start calling Marriott in order to get some resolutions.

    Up in the comment section at around 8:30pm someone posted he called and canceled his Cat 6, got 75K pts refunded with the points already showing up in his account.
    I am not sure how true that is because at that time, Marriott site was not functional – how he could see his points in his account was a puzzle when the site was still in upgrade mode. May be he saw it thru the app…

    I came across another DP from a Chinese blog – some one posted around 6 to 7am Aug 19 that he had called Marriott and was told once the MERGER is completed, Cat 6 would get 30K refund. Though I seriously doubt this would happen without lots of complaints, given the track records on what the CSRs have told us over the past weeks/months leading to this final straw.
    Up in the comment section at around 8:30pm someone posted he called and canceled his Cat 6, got 75K pts refunded with the points already showing up in his account.
    I am not sure how true that is because at that time, Marriott site was not functional – how he could see his points in his account was a puzzle when the site was still in upgrade mode. May be he saw it thru the app…

    I came across another DP from a Chinese blog – some one posted around 6 to 7am Aug 19 that he had called Marriott and was told once the MERGER is completed, Cat 6 would get 30K refund. Though I seriously doubt this would happen without lots of complaints, given the track records on what the CSRs have told us over the past weeks/months leading to this final straw.

  97. I think Marriott handled the TPS in a pathetic manner. However cashing in was still a great value for me despite getting stuck with 2 tier 1-2’s. Though a cat 9 redemption partially offsets my loss.

    I thought I’d get 3 weeks at ritz Tokyo but will end up at Prince Sakura Tower. Mega first world problems, but definitely would have been nicer to book 2 extra cat 9 and pocket the 60k points.

    Though I’m lifetime platinum, I’ll take my 75-100 bookings and move to Hyatt. I already have 14 nights booked for Hyatt in ‘19 and with my experience with TP’s and no guaranteed suite upgrades, my long relationship with spg will not carry over to Marriott. They paid a ton of goodwill to purchase Starwood, because Starwood had higher spending more profitable clients. However they are bringing a SpringHill/Courtyard mentality to my spend patterns that are aligned with international Westin and St Regis. A definite culture clash.

    Since I tend to stay in large urban areas Hyatt will work fine for me and similar to old Starwood, they have a larger top end mix for properties which leads them to make it worthwhile for higher spend clients as they have more margin to play with.

    Basically McDonald’s can comp me fries, Guy Savoy can comp an amazing dessert. Just a business model issue.

    Good luck all.

  98. I booked a Cat 6 travel package last week and am obviously not happy with the way things worked out, especially Marriott’s lack of transparency. Marriott was able to release info about the new mapping on the day of the merger, so it had obviously made a decision prior to that. The failure to provide this information to loyalty members is very consumer unfriendly and resulted in big losses for some certificate holders. To make matters worse, Marriott’s phone agents were providing a lot of misinformation. Mine assured me that Cat 6 would map to a new Cat 5 and that I would be able to upgrade/downgrade after the merger.

    The only fair result here is for Marriott to make holders of Cat 6, 8 and Tier 1 certificates whole by refunding points or allowing a one-time upgrade or downgrade at old certificate prices.

    I plan to voice my displeasure on social media and directly with Marriott. I may also file a complaint with the Consumer Finacial Protection Bureau and/or the Federal Trade Commission. I encourage others to do the same. Lucky, it would be great if you would help advocate for us by letting Marriott know that people are angry about this.

    I hope Marriott does the right thing here. If not, it’s a costly lesson learned for me. One thing is certain, though. If Marriott does not make this right, I will be booking future stays (at least 30 nights in 2019) with Hilton, Hyatt, and IHG rather than Marriott, and I will be canceling my SPG and Marriott credit cards.

  99. 1) Measured risk on their part. Clearly the people optimizing certs are not customers who make Marriott a lot of money, otherwise they would have been more generous. They may even benefit if the average blog reader switched their attention to figuring out how to max Hyatt instead.

    2) Everyone here got a ton of value just in the optimization process. Mix in strategic thinking with high stakes gambling and you’ve got yourself a recipe for fun.

    3) I wouldnt be surprised if Marriott had multiple possible mappings, and when we were all done booking, they got to do a quick analysis, something like projected future revenue – cost of package under various scenarios and came to an optimal conclusion. Sometimes it pays to offend a few people.

    Loved the whole thing though, even though the outcome wasn’t a bonanza.

  100. Tweeted with already 1 retweet in 5min
    Thought there’d be more:

    David Flueck mislead us. Whitholding information about the travel package mapping until the worst news came out yesterday was shady. Clearly you guys need to put cat 6 and cat 8 people right. This is coming from someone with attached certs that made out ahead. Puts negative taste”

  101. It’s not that difficult using a spreadsheet to figure out is it worth it for Marriott to keep the TP purchasers happy. I’m sure they know how much these people spend and how many points they convert into award stays. My guess is after doing the math, it is easy to see that these are the most savvy customers who are good at playing points game. They ask themselves is it financially smart to keep these people or let them go to Hilton/ Hyatt? Now we have the answer.

  102. If you take your 75-100 bookings to Hyatt, with its 1/10th the footprint of Marriott, I have little doubt that you would quickly backtrack or, if Marriott’s “transgression” is unforgivable, you will hold your nose and join Hilton Honors. Few who do 75-100 bookings, especially for domestic stays, would find solace with Hyatt.

    Just injecting in a small dose of reality and signal…

  103. 75-100 stays. For its mostly major urban areas, staying with A chain is easy.

    For me, I 75% of the time In NY, Chicago, Tokyo, Seoul, Miami, and miscellaneous large/mid tier cities for the rest. I have lifetime platinum and Hilton diamond via Amex, so I’ll work Hyatt and tuck in Hilton and Marriott when there is a huge value gap, rather than staying Starwood and tucking in Hyatt, Marriott, and Hilton.

    I’m a small fish and only control 400 nights a year via my 3 person sales group and myself, so I know my actions won’t impact the Marriott bottom line, but others will move change their behavior as well. I’m sure in 3-5 years they will write-off a chick of the goodwill they paid as they will lose profitable Starwood clients.

    The funny thing is with their PR blitz about the merger and how the SPG program would dominate I continued staying at Marriott/Starwood/Rotz this year and qualified for Plat again Then the stupidity of creating a lifetime PP level annoyed me; the recent T&C that suite upgrades are not guaranteed; and finally this silliness with the mapping secrets to me reveals a program headed in the wrong way / much as Hyatt was before they realized the sum total of their changes drive away profitable clients.

    Maybe Marriott will realize the judgement error they made and reach out as Hyatt Gad done this year or not. Either way I’m happy with my TP certs as I obtained fabulous value, and have backed into the Hyatt program that reminds me of the old spg. 360 alaska miles and 21 days of cat 6 properties during the next year for 330 spg points is awesome. From the Marriott side they lost a very profitable customer over 60,000 Marriott points, or about $600.

    Silly

  104. @DCS

    That is precise why Marriott bought SPG and then be so blatantly cheated its members because with its foot prints if you travel a lot and need to stay at chain hotels, you have very few choices now not to stay at a Marriott family property. Even you try to only use Hilton, sometimes it is still not possible.

    Monopoly anyone?

  105. Fll,

    We are in the period when corporations have more power than customers and employees. Its true in airlines, it’s true in cable, its true in hotels, its true in health insurance. On and on and on.

  106. Hey Lucky,

    Since you are obviously more powerful than us readers when it comes to communicating with Marriott, could you reach out to them and provide an update if the category 9/tier 1-3 will be able to be used at a category 7 in 2019 in either standard or off peak? That would at least soften the blow a little….

  107. Hempworth says: “Cat 6/8 people didn’t lose value. They had a cert for 7 nights at a hotel that would cost 30/40k a night, and still have the exact same thing.”

    We absolutely do NOT have “the exact same thing.” What I purchased (Cat. 6) was the ability to book at a Cat. 6 (on the new chart) hotel. What I now have is the ability to book at Cat. 1-4 (on the new chart) hotel. Hardly the same thing at all, AND on top of that, I paid 30k extra for what I would have gotten if I’d just stuck with the original Cat. 1-5 certificate. 30k for nothing. Zero. Zilch.

    What’s worse is that I actually paid to purchase most of those 30k points, so for me, at least, this is actual theft of cash. I gave them cash, and in return they gave me points and promised I could use them at a certain category of hotel. How is this not fraud?

    The icing on this crappy cake is that so many of us were told that we WOULD be able to upgrade/downgrade after Aug. 18, and that we WOULD be able to redeem our certificates in the category that we purchased. Both of those things turned out to be lies.

    I’m baffled as to how anyone can call this a “gamble” or “speculative.” It was not. We were told one thing, now they’re telling us another. That’s lying, cheating and fraud.

  108. @lucky: Marriott clarified that you can’t use a cat 6 certificate for a cat 7 booking even when it goes point based and the standard cat 7 price is the same as the cat 6 peak price

  109. honestly, why do you guys care so much? YOU ALL KNEW that it was gamble, which means there is a chance that you WONT come out ahead. You knew the terms and conditions of the travel packages wont be released until after the merger which means nothing anyone says is 100% concrete. I took a gamble too, I lost, its 30k points not the end of the world jesus. Marriott also told you guys to attach your certs BEFORE the merger, and if you dont know your travel dates for sure then dont buy a package. Or be like me and buy it but also know that you can win OR lose at the end of the day. Keep crying crybabies, they will never refund you your 30k points…

  110. Lucky was WRONG pretty much about everything but will be pushing their credit card later this week…capitalism at work

  111. I booked at Cat 8 certificate and attached it to a hotel that I would reasonable want to stay at next year to hedge my bets. I was hoping I would be able to cancel it and book something even more desirable, but it looks like I’ll be leaving it as is [pending what is allowed for points refunds].

  112. I have a former Cat 6 and Cat 8. I’m really getting the short end of the stick and am FUMING! How obnoxious for Marriott to withhold this information from us to then stab us in the back like this!

  113. “What’s odd here is that those of us with Category 9 or Tier 1-3 certificates might actually be better off waiting until next year to book. This year the certificate would be valid at a Category 6 property, while next year it would be redeemable at up to a Category 7 property in either off-peak or standard (but not peak) season. That’s because Category 8, as well as peak and off-peak pricing, is only being introduced next year.”

    Incorrect – it’s tied to the specific category mentioned. The points listed on the chart are just the peak pricing aka Marriott’s spin on how we aren’t losing value.

  114. I left this for a few points blogs

    PLEASE READ THIS….Can you get another interview with David Flueck? I would love for you to ask him how do they justify miles from a travel package going up 2.3 rewards or maybe the lowest at 1.8 rewards per mile. But it used to be 1 for 1! The joke is that they say for an excellent value use your rewards for a travel package. Word for word it says on the website…”Take advantage of an excellent holiday value (yea right!). Redeem your points for a week of hotel accommodations with airline miles included. Refer to the tables below for point requirements” https://www.marriott.com/lo… ….what does Holiday value mean by the way? Does that mean for Europeans where they call vacations going on Holiday? Anyways you had your own post where you called the travel packages “terrible” did DF see that? Why would they make them “terrible”? I wonder if they even know the impact of this? I can only think they were hoping most rewards members didn’t even know a travel package existed! And if they changed them probably no big deal. Well it is a big deal! A really big deal and he needs to know this! Ask DF if he can show you why the new travel packages are called an excellent HOLIDAY value! (and don’t forget that word holiday)
    Thanks for listening.

  115. @timothy hamilton,

    “PLEASE READ THIS….Can you get another interview with David Flueck? I would love for you to ask him how do they justify miles from a travel package going up 2.3 rewards or maybe the lowest at 1.8 rewards per mile. But it used to be 1 for 1!”

    The miles portion of a travel package was NEVER 1:1. I think that is where a lot of the confusion started. In old MR you could purchase 25K FF miles for 70,000 MR or 2.8 Points each. In the New program 25K FF miles cost 60,000 MR or 2.4 Points each. That is actually better value in the new MR. The hotel certificate for an old CAT 1-5 had a “value” of 150,000 MR but was only “worth” 45,000 MR as evidenced with the amount of MR returned upon cancellation or surrender in both the old and now in the new program. An old MR 7N certificate at a property in old CAT 1 was 45,000 MR. (6 x 7,500 with 5th night free) You can look at your old CAT 1-5 as a “special” CAT 1 redemption which you purchased for 45,000 MR. The “special” feature of this CAT 1 certificate purchased as part of a TP is that it allowed you to make a week long hotel reservation at any property up to CAT 5, hence we always referred to the certificate as CAT 1-to-CAT 5.

    Since the hotel certificate is only worth 45,000 MR you effectively paid 225,000 MR for the 120,000 FF Miles or 1.875 MR each. A great deal considering 75,000 former SPG Starpoints would only have purchased 90,000 FF Miles.

    In @Lucky’s last update it appears he has finally had a revelation. Perhaps too late for himself and his followers who got caught up in a frenzy of anticipated generosity and category mapping windfalls. An excerpt of @Lucky’s article follows.

    “To unbundle the math even further, this would be the equivalent of having redeemed 75,000 Starpoints or 225,000 Marriott Rewards points for 120,000 airline miles, which I’d consider to be pretty good.”

    I discussed this last month on the Marriott TP thread. Condescension followed and I was the crazy one. I just lurked in the thread until last week and saw the same crap regurgitated. The numbers didn’t add up for me so I didn’t partake in the game.

    James

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