In Europe you have three “powerhouse” airline groups — Air France-KLM, IAG (the parent company of Aer Lingus, British Airways, Iberia, etc.), and Lufthansa Group (the parent company of Austrian, Lufthansa, Swiss, etc.).
Virtually all IAG and Lufthansa Group airlines feature fully flat seats in business class throughout their longhaul fleet (there are limited exceptions, like Aer Lingus having a single A330 with angled seats). Now, largely these airlines don’t have particularly good fully flat seats, but at least they’re flat.
Lufthansa business class
Meanwhile I’d say Air France-KLM has both the best and worst European hard products in business class. On one end of the spectrum, KLM 787s, as well as Air France 787s and select 777s, feature reverse herringbone seats in business class. On the other end of the spectrum, these airlines were also among the last major ones in Europe to have angled seats in business class.
In this day and age, not only are fully flat seats expected in business class, but direct aisle access from all business class seats is becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Well, there’s some good news on that front. As of this month, all KLM longhaul aircraft feature fully flat beds in business class. This has happened now that the last KLM A330-200 was taken out of service to have new business class seats fitted.
While KLM has fully flat business class seats throughout their fleet, they don’t have the same seats throughout.
The highlight of KLM’s longhaul fleet are their 787s, which feature reverse herringbone seats.
KLM 787 business class
Then KLM’s 777s, 747s, and A330s, all feature B/E Aerospace Diamond seats, which are forward facing seats.
KLM business class
KLM business class
Now it’s time for Air France to catch up. Their 787s and some 777s feature their new business class product.
Air France 787 business class
Their A380s, A330s, and some 777s continue to feature angled seats in business class, which is just embarrassing. This will continue to be the case for at least a couple more years, as Air France only plans on reconfiguring their A380s in late 2020.
Air France A380
Well done, KLM! I’m excited to fly KLM’s 787 and A330 business class later this month.
Hugo I've been wondering the same thing now that the "year" restarts whenever you reach platinum. Does the 10 year platinum for life counter follow the calendar year or the "platinum" year. I'm not sure.
So I have theory: if you were to book 17/18 returns in La Premiere between Amsterdam and Singapore you would recieve 3,000+ XP. To become Platinum for life you have to stay Platinum member (300xp per year) for 10 consecutive years. So if you were to book those returns you would recieve enough XP for ten years without having to worry if you fly enough each year. Does someone know if this would work or...
So I have theory: if you were to book 17/18 returns in La Premiere between Amsterdam and Singapore you would recieve 3,000+ XP. To become Platinum for life you have to stay Platinum member (300xp per year) for 10 consecutive years. So if you were to book those returns you would recieve enough XP for ten years without having to worry if you fly enough each year. Does someone know if this would work or do XP expire after a certain few years. Looking on the FlyingBlue site it states that each year the amount of miles you would need for a certain will be subtracted. For now it's crazy talk I know but the idea has been running through my mind the last few weeks. Does someone know if this would work? I think it would be a cool expirement to do, costly for sure but a lot of fun as well
I love the KLM Boeing B-787 herringbone Business Class
It is very comfortable and offers big privacy
@Icarus I certainly don’t expect that an airline can transform their fleet in a few days, but I do expect global airlines to make the strategic planning decisions necessary to ensure they are able to compete with standard expectations in premium cabins.
As @The nice Paul says above, it’s all well and good that AF has an excellent First Class service for up to four passengers per flight but in reality J class is their...
@Icarus I certainly don’t expect that an airline can transform their fleet in a few days, but I do expect global airlines to make the strategic planning decisions necessary to ensure they are able to compete with standard expectations in premium cabins.
As @The nice Paul says above, it’s all well and good that AF has an excellent First Class service for up to four passengers per flight but in reality J class is their bread and butter and they deserve a lot of criticism for fielding an unacceptable J hard product on many of their aircraft.
@ Kerry. You like most, assume airlines just transform a fleet in a few days. It takes time with a large fleet whilst still maintaining service. Air France made a decision to modify the a380 fleet and will upgrade the product. They also have more than one flight to jfk. It’s not as if the old product is terrible. It’s just needs refreshing to the full flat bed And when they do that the aircraft is taken out of service
@ Kerry
Completely agree. I find it mystifying that BA - which has been all-flat-seats in J for *decades* - gets so much hate on here, while AF is celebrated for its 1st and everyone has been far too polite to point out KLM’s previously hopeless products.
As it happens, I like KLM. They get a lot of my European short-haul business. But over the years they have got almost none for long-haul, because...
@ Kerry
Completely agree. I find it mystifying that BA - which has been all-flat-seats in J for *decades* - gets so much hate on here, while AF is celebrated for its 1st and everyone has been far too polite to point out KLM’s previously hopeless products.
As it happens, I like KLM. They get a lot of my European short-haul business. But over the years they have got almost none for long-haul, because of the risk (equipment swap, etc) of ending up spending 12 hours in an angled seat. With BA you get what is absolutely not a great J class seat, but there is zero risk of not getting a bed. Consistency and predictability are worth a lot when you’re a frequent traveller.
Haha sorry but I think it’s just so so weak that AF will continue to fly with their appalling angle flat seats in business class, and even KLM only fully converted in 2019.
AF still flies A380s to JFK with angle flat seats. To the largest premium market in the world, and arguably their flagship route. They just can’t be bothered to compete with a serviceable product.
And your average traveller believes large airlines can miraculously modify cabins of entire fleets whilst still maintaining flights, in 24 hours And on KLM the service is superior to most airlines plus you get a Delft house
FYI Air France A330 is getting new seats as far as I know and the first flights are scheduled at the end of March.
KLM is very enjoyable to fly. FA’s are friendly with a good sense of humor, I like the flat beds and the food is quite ok.
Not to forget, extremely reliable in terms of timing.
We flew on KLM from AMS to YEG and enjoyed it. The FA are nice, service is good and the catering is outstanding. Our inbound was on AF from YVR to CDG in reverse herringbone but KLM catering beat AF hands down. Whats even better - it cost us 26k Flying Blue to fly on trans Atlantic lie flat seats.
Is the exQR Aer Lingus frame still featuring angle flats? I thought it was supposed to be retrofitted with the current product during its maintenance period over December?
Im not sure how to verify that.
Finally. I now have 4 daily options from MSP to AMS. I always ignored the KLM flight because its business class was a joke so I had to fly one of the 3 Delta flights.
Tip of the hat to Mr. TheFlyingDutchbot
I like reverse harringbone(coffin) seats, but prefer the forward facing ones. Don't care about privacy when I'm asleep anyway.
Hat tip / source would be appreciated.