What consumers expect in business varies greatly around the globe, especially for short haul and regional flights. You’ll probably find the world’s best regional business class products in Asia (including the Middle East), where you’ll often receive lounge access, flat beds, delicious food, and attentive service.
Meanwhile in the United States and Europe, it’s a totally different story. I’m always intrigued by how OMAAT readers have different takes on which region has the worse business class, so I figured that would be fun to discuss in this post.
In this post:
Comparing two unpopular business class experiences
All else being equal, would you rather fly business class on a regional flight in the United States, or business class on a regional flight in Europe? Now, personally I have a strong preference, but I’m always caught off guard by how many people have a totally different take. Let’s go over the pros and cons of each (let me note that in both regions there are outliers, so my analysis is based on the “average” flight in each region).
Regional business class in Europe
Regional business class in Europe typically consists of an economy seat with a blocked middle. The size of the cabin can be changed with each flight based on demand, as the curtain is simply moved back and forth based on how many people book the cabin.
Suffice it to say that booking business class and getting an economy seat is quite underwhelming, especially given how little legroom there is on most flights within Europe. Some airlines offer Wi-Fi and power ports on these flights, while other airlines don’t, but there’s not much consistency there.
There are some advantages to intra-Europe business class, though:
- The food and drink selection is generally quite good, better than you’d find in the United States; even on a very short flight, you’ll be served something substantial and/or fresh
- You get lounge access on intra-Europe flights when traveling in business class, which generally isn’t offered on flights within the United States
Regional business class in United States
Typically the forward cabin on domestic flights in the United States is marketed as first class rather than business class, which tends to cause some confusion among foreign travelers. In the United States, the forward cabin has different seats, and therefore the size of the cabin is the same on each flight.
Domestic first class seats are probably most similar to international premium economy seats. You can expect that they’ll have considerably more width (as they’re usually in a 2-2 configuration rather than a 3-3 configuration), and also feature substantially more legroom. However, aside from some premium markets, don’t expect that you’ll get a flat bed product.
The advantage of business class within the United States is obvious, which is that there’s more space. However, there are also some downsides:
- A domestic ticket usually doesn’t offer lounge access within the United States, so unless you’re a member or otherwise have lounge access, you’ll be stuck waiting in the gate area
- The quality of food and drinks on domestic flights is typically underwhelming; on flights of under two hours, you’ll typically just be served packaged snacks at best, and on longer flights you might get a hot meal, but it’s unlikely to be great
Which business class experience is better?
There doesn’t really seem to be any consensus as to whether business class in the United States or Europe is preferred.
Some people say that business class within Europe is an embarrassment, as you’re just getting an economy seat. Meanwhile others say that business class in the United States is awful, since you don’t even get lounge access, and the food typically isn’t very good.
Where do I stand? Given the choice, I’d choose business class within the United States any day of the week. To me the single most valuable commodity on a plane is personal space, and that’s an area where US airlines win.
I care a lot more about being comfortable than I care about having a decent meal, or getting lounge access. For that matter, there are lots of other methods for accessing lounges in the United States, beyond just the ticket you booked.
When traveling in domestic first class, I can typically be every bit as productive as at home. There are consistently power outlets and Wi-Fi, and I don’t have to contort my body to be able to work on my laptop.
In defense of intra-Europe business class, I still see value in the product when redeeming miles. Would I pay an extra $500 for a business class seat on an intra-Europe flight? Nope, probably not. But you can regularly book business class for an extra 5,000-10,000 points one-way, so based on my valuation, that’s often like paying the equivalent of under $100 to upgrade.
To me that’s well worth it for the premium ground services, the better inflight service, and most importantly, the guaranteed blocked middle seat. When you have an empty middle seat, you can at least get relatively comfortable.
I also think it’s worth calling out how there’s frequently saver award space in business class on flights within Europe, while it’s extremely rare to come across that on domestic flights in the United States.
Bottom line
Airlines in both the United States and Europe are often criticized for their regional business class products. Some prefer business class in the United States for the better seats, while others prefer business class in Europe for the lounge access and better food and drinks. Personally I’m more in the former camp, as I value space above all else on a plane.
Where do you stand — for regional flights, do you prefer business class in the United States or Europe?
Except on a connecting transatlantic flight, who in their right mind pay for business class within europe ? Flights are usually 2h or less, and even the 100$ the upgrade is not worth it as with that amount you can indulge in a very nice meal with drinks and still have some change left. As for the full price, you could actually buy two tickets in economy (so as to have your free seat and...
Except on a connecting transatlantic flight, who in their right mind pay for business class within europe ? Flights are usually 2h or less, and even the 100$ the upgrade is not worth it as with that amount you can indulge in a very nice meal with drinks and still have some change left. As for the full price, you could actually buy two tickets in economy (so as to have your free seat and double luggage allowance) and have enough money left to get a nice meal at the airport.
Really, I don't see how there's still a market for this.
For the US it is a different story as the flight can be a lot longer...
This argument rattles on. It can never be resolved as the two products are not available in both continents. All I will say is that I flew SEA-YEG-SEA. The seating was wonderful, no question. The airline in question served drinks only on a flight a little under 500 miles. I was underwhelmed. This style of F was abandoned in Europe 40 years ago as it made no money. Not one carrier retained it
The Intra-European style gives the airline flexibility depending on how many business class seats are sold. I wonder if we will see US airlines try this model soon because of Spirit offering a section that is similar to the Intra-European style.
But then, wouldn't they have to at least start serving food and providing lounge access as compensation for those seats the way European airlines do?
I just flew with Iberia from CDG to MAD in their regional business class, exceptional and top notch service from boarding process, welcome, food, drinks and service. Esp. the food, service, attention to details and friendliness of the airhost were exceptional!
It'd be an insult to compare it with my AA first class travels while flying domestic. No comparison! European regional business class wins, hands down!
It's simple.
Americans are fat. Especially the average work flyer who rides up front domestically.
And Americans will be ok with junk out of a snack basket on a short flight.
We STILL have yet to see anything to back up the statement IN THE ARTICLE that beverage service on European carriers is better.
Food might be better on SOME European carriers in shorthaul business but there is far less space.
And most of the US legacy carriers offer a full beverage service in domestic economy over some minimum flight length - usually a couple hours - while that is not true on Euro legacies.
...We STILL have yet to see anything to back up the statement IN THE ARTICLE that beverage service on European carriers is better.
Food might be better on SOME European carriers in shorthaul business but there is far less space.
And most of the US legacy carriers offer a full beverage service in domestic economy over some minimum flight length - usually a couple hours - while that is not true on Euro legacies.
and as much as some want to argue otherwise, there is a far bigger difference in service on the big 3 in the US than there is among the Euro big 3.
Given that beverage service was specifically noted in the article, Delta has more consistent and a broader selection of pre-departure beverages than American or United.
and all of these service elements might be related to the fact that Delta is the only one of the big 3 Euro or US legacies or their groups that has non-union FAs which means that passengers don't get caught in the middle of union-mgmt conflicts - such as cancelled thousands of flights at the LH group over the past year and regularly shows up in AA service.
Airlines ARE service business and everyone can have preference about space vs. food or beverage but ultimately airlines that deliver service are the ones that also get the highest ratings and also run the best businesses.
You get more space in eurobiz since there's an empty seat next to you, which is very practical. US F has wider seats (not sure what do you with the empty space next to your torso) but you're sitting right next to someone else - especially since US airlines fill business class with free upgrades so there's rarely an empty seat.
first, feel free to show the math that Euro business results in more personal space for YOU by having the seat next to you empty. You don't get to use all of the space of that empty seat - it is divided at best with the person on the other side of the set of 3.
extra legroom and width in US domestic first does result in more total space for a passenger.
second,...
first, feel free to show the math that Euro business results in more personal space for YOU by having the seat next to you empty. You don't get to use all of the space of that empty seat - it is divided at best with the person on the other side of the set of 3.
extra legroom and width in US domestic first does result in more total space for a passenger.
second, US airlines are now increasingly breaking down the amount of domestic first class that they sell vs. give to free upgrades and it is well north of 50% - and as high as 80% for some airlines - so the notion that domestic first class is just "free" upgrades is not accurate.
third, once again, we all get preferences of what service elements matter but there really isn't a dispute based on facts that the US airlines do a far better job of turning their domestic system into profits while the Euro airlines break even at best on their shorthaul European networks. The CEO of AF/KL was interviewed at the IATA conference and noted that they would love to make money like the US3 do on their domestic networks but they can't because of high taxes, a much higher penetration of ultra low cost carriers in major business markets and trains that take up a large percentage of domestic travel.
The Euro 3 groups operate their shorthaul networks to feed their longhaul networks which is where they make their money - although at much lower overall rates than the big US 3 - and the product they offer is much less differentiated than what the US 3 charge with corresponding reductions in profitability.
Even on the food argument - since the claims about drink haven't been supported and are actually not true - Europeans and most of the world - not just on planes - eat less but of higher quality than Americans.
again, we all can have preferences but it isn't really possible to argue with what works. The US built its intercity transportation network around roads and airlines and US airlines do better financially.
At best, the only accurate statement that can be made is that European airlines serve better quality food but the US domestic first class model delivers more usable space for a customer while there is no difference in beverage selection - with US airlines that execute full predeparture beverage service having an advantage over those that do not either in the US or Europe.
'The Euro 3 groups operate their shorthaul networks to feed their longhaul networks which is where they make their money'.
That's simplistic nonsense. BCN-MAD alone used to be the busiest route in the entire world, the seasonal flights from Western Europe to Greek islands (or even the widebodies to PMI!) aren't exactly full of passengers from Iowa or Guangzhou, and OS fly to a massive selection of Central/Eastern European airports which couldn't be sustained...
'The Euro 3 groups operate their shorthaul networks to feed their longhaul networks which is where they make their money'.
That's simplistic nonsense. BCN-MAD alone used to be the busiest route in the entire world, the seasonal flights from Western Europe to Greek islands (or even the widebodies to PMI!) aren't exactly full of passengers from Iowa or Guangzhou, and OS fly to a massive selection of Central/Eastern European airports which couldn't be sustained on feed from/to their bare-bones long-haul network. Of course there's more turnover, and potentially more profit, to be made flying longer distances, but there's no shortage of opportunity within the intra-Europe market for VFR, business travel (obviously not confined to business class) and high-end leisure.
A more logical point in a similar line of thought would be that those travelling within Europe typically don't take flights longer than 2.5 hours and are therefore less willing to pay a significant premium for a better seat. That's true, of course, but European business class is mostly about the ground benefits.
What? Have you flown in European business class? The middle seat is blocked, and there's enough space to put a handbag beside me. Unless you are fat... that's another story.
He is still ragging about the pre-departure beverages and how that is the thing that matters the most on flights and how Delta is better than everyone else lol
European business all the way. What does US F actually offer? Peanuts and some extra inches between me and the armrest which I don't understand what to do with despite me being quite fat. Space-wise I actually prefer smaller seat and more space between me and the neighbour than a large seat but having someone right next to me for short trips. In the EU I get lounge access and all the airport priority services,...
European business all the way. What does US F actually offer? Peanuts and some extra inches between me and the armrest which I don't understand what to do with despite me being quite fat. Space-wise I actually prefer smaller seat and more space between me and the neighbour than a large seat but having someone right next to me for short trips. In the EU I get lounge access and all the airport priority services, a decent meal & bar service on some airlines (IAG, LOT, Air Malta etc) and crews that understand they are there to serve passengers. Of course there are also worse products, e.g. LHG business class but they're still years ahead of the US in terms of the on board experience.
US F has nothing to it except a big seat.
As a European who travels in the US a lot I don't have a very clear preference. The US domestic F seats tend to be a lot more comfortable than the Euro C seats for sure, but then again most of my European trips are short enough that I don't care, and many of those in the US as well. I can nicely work in both of them. US F feels more "real" and better...
As a European who travels in the US a lot I don't have a very clear preference. The US domestic F seats tend to be a lot more comfortable than the Euro C seats for sure, but then again most of my European trips are short enough that I don't care, and many of those in the US as well. I can nicely work in both of them. US F feels more "real" and better for "lounging". OTOH weirdly enough I can sleep/nap better in Euro-C when resting my head against the backrest of the empty middle seat when my seat is reclined, vs the US F seats where the headrest suck most of the time. I don't really care about meals to be honest as I usually don't eat on the plane. The lack of lounge access in US F sucks. Air Canada seems to get the best of both worlds with lounge access, decent meals as far as I can tell and "real" premium seats. It is a real blast on flights operated by Widebodies.
Intra Euro biz is a joke. Only traveled on one recently because it was second leg of my US-Europe flight.
It was economy seat with a subpar meal on Air France.
By the way AF lang haul is the most overrated product.
Europe. I prefer not to have the FBI called to arrest me because my pinky accidentally touched the FA as they walked past.
Just came Back from a wonderful one month Trip to Europe. a) Nothing Beats European Trains. b) Iberia , Lufthansa & Swiss have some of the Best Domestic Business Flights. you get a vacant seat next to you and your Partner, Meals are Lavish if you compare against US airlines. Iberia Lounges in Madrid are just phenomenol.
Re Euro Biz, how do they expand the cabin if someone has booked a seat in the first row in economy?
They move them to 27B due to 'unforeseen operational circumstances'.
Early in the year we flew LHR-LCA and back in business class on a BA A321, about 2,000 miles each way. We're not all that tall (under 6 feet) but the seat pitch put us in extreme discomfort well before our destination. Despite the megamiles, we would far rather fly in a US domestic premium economy seat.
YMMV.
In addition to the larger seats, I like having the extra weight allowance for my bags in US domestic first. Very handy for those long weekend ski trips. I don't need 70 lbs of gear but it's nice not to have to sweat 51-52 lbs. when my carry-on is also full. In fairness I don't schlep ski gear overseas but it's a nice-to-have here at home.
2*32kg is the norm for European business class nowadays- it's actually much improved compared to 20 years ago when you would get 30kg under the weight concept.
You need more baggage wt. allowance than 2 x 32 kg?? Sheesh! No wonder people all over the world make fun of us. The carryon bags that they haul are almost check in luggage size. Americans like everything big, including their weights! It's fun to watch them traveling in Europe with those ginormous luggage.
when the question is why is the best airline, the answer is generally never the us carriers lol
Maybe the seating arrangement really is a matter of personal taste. I don’t like having someone sitting right next to me, so the European empty adjacent seat works fine for me. Additionally, many European airlines (but unfortunately not all) have a better legroom in the first section of the cabin, which was not mentioned in the post.
On-time performance is down with many airlines and being able to wait in a lounge for my...
Maybe the seating arrangement really is a matter of personal taste. I don’t like having someone sitting right next to me, so the European empty adjacent seat works fine for me. Additionally, many European airlines (but unfortunately not all) have a better legroom in the first section of the cabin, which was not mentioned in the post.
On-time performance is down with many airlines and being able to wait in a lounge for my flight is a big plus. Nice, if Lounge access works with a credit card for many in the US, but most airline lounges in Europe are accessible only with status or with a Business Class ticket.
Time in the plane is often short, while on the ground can be long.
So the European model is by no means perfect, but I prefer it to the US.
Looks like we need an OMAAT Reader poll on this topic.
Here's my idea: If you prefer DOMESTIC FIRST CLASS in the U.S., give this comment a heart (if you are a registered OMAAT Member).
If you prefer Intra-Europe Business Class, vote up my other comment below (it's a reply to this comment).
If you prefer INTRA-EUROPE BUSINESS CLASS, give this comment a heart.
As for Europe, total travel time and experience is much more than the flight time. So such flights with 60 to 120 minutes block time ending up easily in a half day travel time. By this, such benefits, as dedicated check in counters, fast track and lounge access have high value for me. Even in biz lounge it won't be restaurant dinner quality, but in average you find always something fresh and somehow tasty stuff....
As for Europe, total travel time and experience is much more than the flight time. So such flights with 60 to 120 minutes block time ending up easily in a half day travel time. By this, such benefits, as dedicated check in counters, fast track and lounge access have high value for me. Even in biz lounge it won't be restaurant dinner quality, but in average you find always something fresh and somehow tasty stuff. On flight itself, the blocked middle seat allows me laptop usage in efficient unobserved manner. And a last additional issue when it comes to soft product on board, I hate plastic! Don't want to use it for drinking or eating. Most Europe carries still use glas and china for the products that offered during the flight.
By this the win goes to Europe. But admit that such as JFK-LAX, or SEA-MIA is something total different. Sleeping and seat pitch become here total different values and the win is at US.
Exactly, I think that the enormous size of the domestic market in the US means that many routes have multiple daily frequencies which just isn't the case in Europe - even the hub-and-spoke carriers have routes that cannot support daily and/or year-round service (e.g. LH at OVD, half a dozen airlines at CFU). Hence things like having to overnight at a hub or doing a 6-hour connection between two 2-hour flights might look rather alien...
Exactly, I think that the enormous size of the domestic market in the US means that many routes have multiple daily frequencies which just isn't the case in Europe - even the hub-and-spoke carriers have routes that cannot support daily and/or year-round service (e.g. LH at OVD, half a dozen airlines at CFU). Hence things like having to overnight at a hub or doing a 6-hour connection between two 2-hour flights might look rather alien to them while being very familiar to those of us who travel from/to/between secondary airports in Europe. Lounges and ground services in general are a lot more important in that sort of context.
The tricky thing is that the answer varies by length of flight. Short 1-2 hr hop? Eurobusiness is fine. A 6 hr SFO-BOS transcon? US domestic First is better in spite of the food.
If I had to pick one or the other overall, I'll take US domestic First.
6 hour flights in Europe, e.g. DXB, will usually have widebodies with "proper" business cabin.
HEL - TFS literally has those awful economy seats and its a 6 1/2 hr flight
All these people preferring Euro Biz clearly aren’t >6 ft tall. Give me that sweet USA legroom. You can keep your soft product.
I'm 183 cm, just about six feet, and never had a problem with legroom on an European full service carrier, especially in the front rows that usually have more legroom.
If the US airlines' soft service was only lacking in terms of amenities and food, then your point would be valid.
But no - the US airlines' crews and services are terrible, even when compared to European airlines whose crews and services are average to somewhat above average.
I'd never be happy to sit on a big seat for a flight of any length, if I know that crews serving me will be terrible and so do the foods & drinks and the amenities.
Imho US domestic First Class still wins. If you're on the West Coast, Alaska is really incredible, Delta also offers IFE, Wifi, and solid food. If you get CCs, lounge access is covered w/ Centurion, SkyClubs, etc.
On top of that, premium transcons are effectively full fledged business class and beat out Eurobiz everyday. Regional Europe flights tend to be shorter in length bc they're almost all point to point.
Lounge access is crucial, particularly when you are flying with a connection. Faced with the alternative of losing most of a working day just to travel a relatively short distance (I don't live near a hub airport so direct flights are only available to a few destinations, and even those typically are on LCCs 2-3 times a week), I sometimes book tickets setting off in the morning with the flight from the hub to the...
Lounge access is crucial, particularly when you are flying with a connection. Faced with the alternative of losing most of a working day just to travel a relatively short distance (I don't live near a hub airport so direct flights are only available to a few destinations, and even those typically are on LCCs 2-3 times a week), I sometimes book tickets setting off in the morning with the flight from the hub to the destination not until 17-18:00, allowing me to work from the lounge all day. That's not even possible with pay-per-use/PP lounges as they typically only let you in a couple of hours before departure.
The other really important thing about business class in Europe is the priority check in and security queues. I'm typically in the lounge in less than 10 minutes after entering the terminal. Baggage drop off and security queues for Y passengers can easily take an hour, in places like MAD T4 priority security can be the difference between making the flight and missing it.
Having said all that, the ground benefits are all available to holders of elite status, and that's why I normally purchase economy class tickets for intra-Europe travel.
I'll take the best of both worlds. U.S. hard product with European soft product.
Sounds like Australian domestic business class, although business fares here are typically daylight robbery (even for red-eye flights).
I can bring my own food and buy lounge access on the ground (or with a credit card). I can't bring my own space onto a plane. US Domestic First wins and it's not a close contest.
It’s not about big seats or tasty grub or WiFi. It’s about legroom and US airlines win every time. And they stay ahead with option to pay for extra-legroom in economy too. European airlines think everyone is 5 ft 6.
Feel like it depends if you’re in regional business class, be it US or Europe, just because you’re then booked for connecting to a long-haul business class flight or just booking it for that single regional business flight.
If it’s for a connecting flight, then Europe and if it’s for a singular flight, then US.
Since the EU carriers don't seem to have upgrades to business/first for their statused FFs, I enjoy the less packed European business.
European business class all the way. Given the empty seat in between there is actually more personal space between you and the adjacent passenger.
The US seat is just bigger to accommodate larger sized clientele.
yeah for a midget or something
Flights under 2h: Europe.
Flights over 2h: USA.
My vote goes to Europe; the service is just immeasurably better when the FAs aren't expecting to hide in the galley playing on their phones and chatting. With the blocked middle seat, I can make do with my laptop and still be productive.
European business class is only used on flights of 4 hours or less, so I far prefer it due to having lounge access and real food, even of 30 minute hops) vs. the cafeteria slop they serve in the US (and only on flights of 2.5 hours or longer!).
Of course, anything more than 4 hours in Europe is on lie-flats, but to my surprise in the US you're stuck in the plastic premium economy...
European business class is only used on flights of 4 hours or less, so I far prefer it due to having lounge access and real food, even of 30 minute hops) vs. the cafeteria slop they serve in the US (and only on flights of 2.5 hours or longer!).
Of course, anything more than 4 hours in Europe is on lie-flats, but to my surprise in the US you're stuck in the plastic premium economy seats -- with no TVs or pillows -- on 7 hour flights like Seattle to Miami (and get some horrendous food).
Europe for the win; so much more civilized!
False. European business class is used by BA on its 5 hour flights to Cairo.
"Of course, anything more than 4 hours in Europe is on lie-flats"
That's not true at all.
As someone who flies both a lot of US domestic "first" and business within Europe I have the opposite opinion about which I prefer. But it does depend on the carrier. I've found that Lufthansa intra-Europe business class is usually cheapest and that's because their food in business is a joke. The other day I asked a flight attendant why the paid food in economy looks better and larger than what someone gets in business?...
As someone who flies both a lot of US domestic "first" and business within Europe I have the opposite opinion about which I prefer. But it does depend on the carrier. I've found that Lufthansa intra-Europe business class is usually cheapest and that's because their food in business is a joke. The other day I asked a flight attendant why the paid food in economy looks better and larger than what someone gets in business? He didn't have an answer. So if the choice is between a Lufthansa Eco seat but business class flight and United domestic first and the "first class" snack basket then I would prefer United.
But if the choice is between United domestic first on a short haul US flight and Air France, Iberia, Aegean, TAP, or British Airways then I'd rather not fly UA or any US airline that doesn't even show up without a proper meal.
On short haul flights I don't need a great seat. But I would like something good to eat and the ability to work and for that European seat are fine. But if the flight is 4+ hours then this of course changes.
US airlines selling domestic first class tickets and not being able to deliver a PDB and something real to eat and copping out with a snack basket have clearly just given up.
If the “region” involves Istanbul, it’s no debate! Turkish lie flat for the win.
How about, Cash = US > Europe. Points = Europe > US
There are so many things at play. Size of the person (Americans in general "wider" so need wider seats, vs. height to be comfortable.
Length of the flight - you still have to get to the airport early either way, so if its only an hour or two flight in Europe I'd rather have lounge access than a bigger seat.
None of them are especially worth the price, compared to the other region (such as Asia) intra-continental business clasd products. Neither the lack of the proper hard product nor the lounge access not included is justified for a business class product, in my opinion.
I'd rather sit on an extra legroom seat of economy class.
I think the comment about lounge access is not completely right. Yes you might get easy priority pass lounge access in the US, but with intra-EU business class you get very good lounges like the Air France lounge in Paris, KLM lounge in Amsterdam, Swiss lounge in Zurich, Aegean lounge in Athens which are far superior than any priority pass lounge in the US.
Might be more accurate to compare the US domestic systems in other countries as opposed to a whole continent. Maybe is it better in the US versus China, Canada, Brazil, Australia, etc. Since in many of those countries you get the same seats as the US but also lounge access and food.
@Julia On some flights operated by Chinese airlines they do fly wide body airplanes with lie flat seats and even on some narrow body airplanes they also offer lie flat seats.
I meant in reference their domestic flights they do offer lie flat seats.
My bad, I meant to say it might be better in those countries when flying domestically versus flying domestically in the US.
US. The seat is just better. The service and food is better in Europe (usually), but that doesn't help when I'm sitting on a rock hard seat with 29-30 inch legroom. Especially as a taller person.
European airlines tend to offer more food than US airlines but that is one of the few differentiators.
As for beverages, most of the big 3 offer the full drink menu in the air; I'm not sure what Euro airlines offer in drinks that US airlines offer.
And on some airlines - with Delta far ahead of American and more often than United - predeparture beverages are also offered, again on Delta usually...
European airlines tend to offer more food than US airlines but that is one of the few differentiators.
As for beverages, most of the big 3 offer the full drink menu in the air; I'm not sure what Euro airlines offer in drinks that US airlines offer.
And on some airlines - with Delta far ahead of American and more often than United - predeparture beverages are also offered, again on Delta usually with the full drink menu available. European airlines don't consistently do that.
You really can’t help yourself can you when it comes to propping up Delta? And you wonder why so many on here make fun of you.
in a comparison of service, it is absolutely accurate and relevant that Delta offers better and more consistent predeparture beverage service than American or United which also is better than European carriers.
The only person that looks like a fool is someone that can't accept actual facts that are relevant to the discussion.
Except it isn't relevant to the discussion, it's about your constant m@sturbating over Delta.
And also ignoring the fact that while Delta may offer a pre-departure service, it doesn't offer lounge access and actual food on shorter flights.
But then you'll probably try and gaslight us that customers care more about the PDS than they do about food and lounge access.
Also, your opinions are not facts. So it makes you a fool as well.
well, yes, Julia, the topic IS ABOUT SERVICE and drinks are specifically mentioned.
Pre-departure beverages are part of the service on US carriers - and Delta simply does a better job of delivering on the service it offers than United and far more than American.
You simply can't stand to admit that Delta really does a better job but it really doesn't matter what you think.
Go look at JD Power and their...
well, yes, Julia, the topic IS ABOUT SERVICE and drinks are specifically mentioned.
Pre-departure beverages are part of the service on US carriers - and Delta simply does a better job of delivering on the service it offers than United and far more than American.
You simply can't stand to admit that Delta really does a better job but it really doesn't matter what you think.
Go look at JD Power and their rankings for Delta vs. American and United. The real flying public - not the defensive airline employees that infest travel discussion sites - easily says that Delta provides far higher quality service than American and United not just in domestic first class but also in premium cabins - international and domestic.
Just walk away and admit that the rest of the world knows what you can't admit which is that Delta is simply a higher quality carrier than American or United.
No, it's about the overall experience. The seat, the drinks, the service, the food, etc. And you are the one who also compared Delta to the European carriers, when they do offer better food and lounge access than Delta does.
You simply can't admit it when Delta falls short compared to others. And even in comparison to AA and UA, are PDBs really going to convince people to choose one airline over the other...
No, it's about the overall experience. The seat, the drinks, the service, the food, etc. And you are the one who also compared Delta to the European carriers, when they do offer better food and lounge access than Delta does.
You simply can't admit it when Delta falls short compared to others. And even in comparison to AA and UA, are PDBs really going to convince people to choose one airline over the other based on solely on that issue? Doubtful.
"not the defensive airline employees that infest travel discussion sites"
As opposed to Delta shills like you who infest sites like that?
Delta is arguably better than AA and UA but mostly in the food served more than anything else. It still falls short when compared to many European, Asian, and Middle Eastern airlines.
and yet real customers - including via JD Power - rates the entire package -not just PDPs -and they handedly rate DL higher.
It is you and only you that can't accept the reality that Delta does a better job in premium cabins as well as in the economy cabin than American and United.
and if surveys aren't enough, revenue should confirm how well real consumers vote with their pocketbook; Delta gets more revenue per...
and yet real customers - including via JD Power - rates the entire package -not just PDPs -and they handedly rate DL higher.
It is you and only you that can't accept the reality that Delta does a better job in premium cabins as well as in the economy cabin than American and United.
and if surveys aren't enough, revenue should confirm how well real consumers vote with their pocketbook; Delta gets more revenue per seat mile including in domestic first class than any other US airline.
Quit arguing, Julie.
You simply provide more opportunity for me to provide even more facts to prove my position.
@Tim Dunn
Revenue isn't always a sign of quality or that people choose something because the like it; the Transformer movies have made billion of dollars but they aren't considered high quality nor will there be many people who say they are high quality, even if they paid to see it. Sometimes it's about convenience more than anything else.
Also, you are the one who made the comment about how Delta was better than European...
@Tim Dunn
Revenue isn't always a sign of quality or that people choose something because the like it; the Transformer movies have made billion of dollars but they aren't considered high quality nor will there be many people who say they are high quality, even if they paid to see it. Sometimes it's about convenience more than anything else.
Also, you are the one who made the comment about how Delta was better than European airlines because they served PDB. When confronted with the fact that Euro airlines allow lounge access for biz passengers based on their tickets and that they serve food on shorter flights instead of passing around a snack basket, you see to have switched the goal posts and are focusing now on how Delta is better than UA and AA. You still aren't providing any facts that people base their choices based on the PDB.
On average, Delta does provide better food domestically in premium cabins on average than AA or UA, but not Alaska or JetBlue. Your facts arguably prove that while DL may be better than it's domestic competitors (which is a low bar to begin with), but you have yet to prove that it beats many of it's international competitors. But keep shilling Delta, you need the stock to do as well as it can.
On a plane you're paying mostly for space not food, so for me a bigger seat with more space is much more attractive than a tight narrow 3 seat on European business class. And the food isn't that great in euro business. It's not like you would prefer it over a restaurant meal anyway.
It still isn't great but still better than what you get served on US carriers.
It's all about the seat and legroom, and there's no comparison when it comes to that. US domestic business/first beats intra-Europe business class.
Definitely prefer the European version. More than half of the time, I have a whole row to myself, and I find a row of 3 economy seats far more comfortable than the premium economy seats they call first class that you value so highly.
Even if the cabin is full, you have a full empty seat in the middle, which gives a much more spacious feeling than a full cabin in the states.
...
Definitely prefer the European version. More than half of the time, I have a whole row to myself, and I find a row of 3 economy seats far more comfortable than the premium economy seats they call first class that you value so highly.
Even if the cabin is full, you have a full empty seat in the middle, which gives a much more spacious feeling than a full cabin in the states.
Additionally, you claim that flights over two hours serve a meal on the north american 'first' experience, but this only applies if your flight is scheduled to depart during slim windows that they have designated as meal times. I have been on 6 hour flights without a meal because it was 'not in the meal window'.
To be fair, this isn't that big of a deal, since the food they serve is really awful. The meal I get on a two hour flight on TAP or Aegean is far better than on an intercontinental 'Polaris' flight. And the cabin crew don't scold you for asking for an extra drink.
And the flexible cabin is far more economical. I have been on flights with 0 rows of business class and flights where business class extended beyond the exit rows. Just seems like a much better approach.
You must be short.
There's no way in hell that I'd ever feel "more specious feeling" with my knees banging against the seat in front of me, regardless as to whether there's anyone to the side of me or not.
I don't know how tall are you, but at 183 cm I never touched the seat in front of me with my knees in European business. If you're two meters tall, maybe you may have this problem but 95% of the population doesn't.
Members of any of the major alliance in a non-US program would probably prefer the US regional biz. You get lounge access in US, and the food beats whatever they serve in the air. Just eat in the lounge and skip the airplane junk.
You don't get lounge access in the US with just a business class ticket.
True, but with many you do get it if you are an elite member of a non-US oneworld or Star Alliance program.
@Julia
I said members of any of the major alliance (although I forgot to add the elite qualifier) in a non-US program. E.g. BA Silver and Gold would get Flagship access even on short wholly domestic basic economy tickets.
I think what David is saying is that if you’re an elite member of a non-US programme (e.g. silver or gold with British Airways Executive Club, you would get access to a lounge if flying on a domestic business/first ticket in the US. I would imagine that would be a very small number of people, though.
Neither, both are incredibly overpriced for what they actually offer. It's like paying for premium economy for 3 times the price lol.
An increasing number of European legacy carriers have started unbundling business class and therefore lounge access is not included if you buy the cheapest business class ticket.
I flip flop a lot on this. But overall I prefer European business.
A) the reasons you mentioned; lounge & in-flight service.
B) I appreciate getting a business class cabin that’s not full. Due to the US propensity to upgrade people, there’s never an empty seat.
The only times I've ever been glad to buy an intra-EU business ticket = when schlepping a lot (sports equipment, large luggage, whatever). Often the cost of checking luggage vs free with business makes it a no brainer, and the bonus of lounge access has value to me in EU (but not in US) as overall, EU lounges are much better.
Agreed, no brainer, US domestic business beats intra EU business at any time, for the reasons mentioned.