Reader Thomas asked for my take on what happened to him today on a Lufthansa flight from London (LHR) to Frankfurt (FRA), LH925. Honestly, I’m not sure what exactly to conclude from aspects of this, so I’ll open it up to y’all…
In this post:
A strange Lufthansa experience
Let me just copy and paste Thomas’ version of events of what happened with Lufthansa:
I have never liked the boarding as it seems a free for all but it seems that at least lately, their automated systems won’t let you board if you are trying to go in with a boarding group 5 when they are boarding just Group 1/2. Anyway, since this flight is going from the UK to Schengen, they manually check the passports.
They were boarding group 1 & 2 (I am a UA elite and have Star Alliance Gold). Right in front of me, there was a woman with a boarding pass in group 5 and tried to sneak in, the system showed red and the attendant told her she was in the wrong group and needs to go to the other lane. But the passenger argued so the attendant let her pass!
When it was my turn, I asked her why she did that. Her response was that this is none of my business and she is in charge here (nice response to your elite members!). I then politely said that allowing this behavior is exactly what causes these boarding problems.
That clearly ticked her off so she demanded a secondary check on me – then she insisted that my laptop briefcase (very clearly much smaller than what’s allowed to fit under the seat) was a second carry-on. She was on a power trip and made me check my luggage – as punishment for me calling out that she let people board in the wrong groups.
When I entered the plane, I asked the cabin crew if my briefcase was indeed not a “personal item” and of course they said it’s not a carry on because it easily fits under the seats (it’s the size of a laptop). I then asked them why I was forced to check my carry-on and they apologized but said sorry, it’s too late now since I am already on board.
It gets more bizarre, as I entered the plane, I saw the same woman who had pushed her way in front of the others sit in the middle seat between two business class seats. She has put herself into one of the “your free space” seats that is supposed to be empty – between the aisle and window seats.
I was thinking, this is going to be interesting. I went down to my seat past business class and I was waiting that the crew would kick her out of the seat and she would come down to economy but nothing happened. Extremely strange, I have never seen anything like it. Even if the other two people to her left and right were okay with having someone sit in between, is this even allowed?
My take on this Lufthansa situation
Look, I can’t count the number of times I’ve wanted to politely make a comment to an airline employee that could be perceived as critical. All the time we see gate agents not in any way enforcing the boarding process, and I’d love to ask them the same question that Thomas did.
But I don’t, and this situation is exactly why. Ultimately airline employees are in a position of power, and there are a variety of ways they can take revenge. My goal when I board a plane is to have as little interaction with the gate agent as possible, to minimize my odds of them trying to gate check my bag, or do anything else that could make my travels more complicated.
The reality is also that if you have an unpleasant experience, complaining to the airline after the fact won’t accomplish anything. Do you have any clue how many people send complaints to airlines claiming they were treated rudely because a gate agent made them check their bag, when the gate agent was in the right? It’s a lot of people…
I think it’s also worth mentioning that I think Germans in general have more of an expectation of rules being followed than those in some other countries, so the expectation isn’t unreasonable. Germans are also typically more straightforward than others, and don’t sugarcoat things.
It goes without saying that the Lufthansa employee wasn’t being professional. No matter what, you should have a more professional response than “none of your business.” But I also can’t say that I’m surprised that this was the response.
As far as the second issue goes, of the passenger sitting in one of the blocked middle seats in business class… that’s a real head-scratcher. The only thing I can do is answer the question as to whether that’s allowed. From an aviation authority and safety standpoint that’s not an issue (as it’s just a standard seat), while upgrading yourself without permission definitely violates Lufthansa’s policy.
I have to imagine that later during the boarding process either a flight attendant noticed or the passengers said something?
Bottom line
An OMAAT reader had an interesting Lufthansa experience today. He called the gate agent out for not enforcing the boarding order, and it backfired, as the gate agent then more closely scrutinized his carry-on. I’m not sure what exactly to think here, so I’ll open it up to you guys.
What do you make of this Lufthansa situation?
My comment is not relevant to your issue, but here is what has happened to me and my husband last year. I always book middle and isle seats. So isle seats are always last group, but because we are a spouses (little family) we have to pass boarding gate together. But no, they did not allow. The agent told me (woman) that your husband will go through now and you just have to wait. I...
My comment is not relevant to your issue, but here is what has happened to me and my husband last year. I always book middle and isle seats. So isle seats are always last group, but because we are a spouses (little family) we have to pass boarding gate together. But no, they did not allow. The agent told me (woman) that your husband will go through now and you just have to wait. I had to wait! Can you imagine that? Wait untill every single passenger went through boarding gate and finally my husband could and we were the last ones board the plane! Can you even imagine that?? it is unbelievable!!! in one week we gonna fly with Lufthansa again, I am mentally prepared to fight! Unfortunately have no other airline options to fly with. It is terrible!!
For beeing bossy when someone tells them their mistake… that is very unprofessional.
But the seating issue could possibly a mistake done by the crew. There is a movable class divider, that has to be placed accordingly before each flight between Eco and Business Class. If the crew has by mistake choose the wrong row, it can happen that the first Eco row seems to be in Bussiness Class.
I was once traveling with my kids (first class, kids about 5 or 6) and we were waiting right by elite/first class line to walk on when flight called. A gate agent told us to get out of the way because we were blocking the first class passengers who would want to board soon. I told her we were among those passengers and we were hoping to be first on so I could get the...
I was once traveling with my kids (first class, kids about 5 or 6) and we were waiting right by elite/first class line to walk on when flight called. A gate agent told us to get out of the way because we were blocking the first class passengers who would want to board soon. I told her we were among those passengers and we were hoping to be first on so I could get the kids bags up above them etc. I guess this pissed her off because she then refused to allow us to go onboard with our overhead bags (the girls bags were mini-size Dora the explorer pull along bags, they could have literally fit under the seats and they were their overhead bags). She rejected all of our bags, made us check them and when I asked her why on the same aircraft the bags fit fine on the 1st leg of our flight, she asked "if we were going to have a problem". Some gate agents are temperamentally ill suited to the job (aka A-holes) in my experience. Multiple odd experiences with gate agents over the years, plus a fair amount of really excellent agents, but this one interaction stands out. Definite small stakes revenge bs.
I’m also Star Alliance Gold and fly Lufthansa often. The author’s experience is nothing surprising at all. I’ve had many a disagreement with gate agents and have had the police called a few times. Something I’ve never had with any other airline. For reference, I fly over 100 flights a year. Germans generally don’t see / care about the big picture and only focus on the letter of the law. There’s a rigidity that is...
I’m also Star Alliance Gold and fly Lufthansa often. The author’s experience is nothing surprising at all. I’ve had many a disagreement with gate agents and have had the police called a few times. Something I’ve never had with any other airline. For reference, I fly over 100 flights a year. Germans generally don’t see / care about the big picture and only focus on the letter of the law. There’s a rigidity that is inherently incompatible with customer service. And they seem to look down on anyone who doesn’t share their world view.
For me, as a M&M FTL, LH Group has made a LOT of bad decisions… The whole cost-cutting is horrible. LH Group is nowadays a group of super expensive low-cost airlines. My choice is AEGEAN and LOT Polish Airlines when it comes to Star Alliance Airlines in Europe.
I think that it is not right for situations like this to get attention. I agree that the attendant was on a power trip, but many readers of this blog have had far worse happen to them by airlines and hotels and have reported the situation to blogs like this with no response.
And then, I can tell for sure, as a former employee for AF/KLM, as a gate agent, how many times I was ridiculed, screamed at, made fun of, heard ironic comments, spit at, shoved, and even received death threats for trying to reinforce the boarding rules and to make no exception.
Point is, I grew tired of seeing the animalistic way, the entitlement that people have when they board. Yes, I really did say,...
And then, I can tell for sure, as a former employee for AF/KLM, as a gate agent, how many times I was ridiculed, screamed at, made fun of, heard ironic comments, spit at, shoved, and even received death threats for trying to reinforce the boarding rules and to make no exception.
Point is, I grew tired of seeing the animalistic way, the entitlement that people have when they board. Yes, I really did say, animalistic. It is like that.
It gets you so stressed to a point you no longer care, or have the inner emotional strength to deal with. Those people at the gates, are working 12 sometimes even more hours, on shifts, most are young people who try to sustain themselves during their studies.
Next time, when you see a passenger break the rules, hold them accountable, and help the gate agents. Don't just sit there, and look or record it on your phone.
I appreciate your call to us other passengers to stand up for GA in cases like this. I will do so.
I saw similar (not honoring Boarding Group 1) situations few times and always asked at first boarding agent, why they are not doing their job as it is required and for what they actually are getting paid. And after that always file complaint. None of the gate agents never argued with me after that.
As HON Circle member I am 99% sure that no gate agent never will (they know that HON can cause...
I saw similar (not honoring Boarding Group 1) situations few times and always asked at first boarding agent, why they are not doing their job as it is required and for what they actually are getting paid. And after that always file complaint. None of the gate agents never argued with me after that.
As HON Circle member I am 99% sure that no gate agent never will (they know that HON can cause them lot of problems amd already conpaining HON after escalation surely will).
But they need to be disciplined for sure. They need to fullfill rules and that’s it. Nothing else matter.
LH agents or workers are the worst. similar situation where service rep GA blames me for late flight lol. And has the worst depressive face taking it out on customers. NEVER fly LH unless it's absolutely the only option. You will never see this in other international airlines, Non us non europe
Yet you’re going to get the same handling agent, in this case Menzies.
So for example if you said you will never fly Lufthansa from Heathrow as their staff are terrible, however you will fly Swiss. Yet the star alliance carriers are all handled by Menzies.
I would expect more of Lucky, but clearly that is not warranted. Surely he should be well aware that the gate agent is not a Lufthansa employee.
While it is one thing to argue that Lufthansa has a responsibility for its contractors, it is quite irresponsible to claim that this was a Lufthansa employee at the gate.
Another flyer is none of the person's business. If 'Thomas' was in business and the other...
I would expect more of Lucky, but clearly that is not warranted. Surely he should be well aware that the gate agent is not a Lufthansa employee.
While it is one thing to argue that Lufthansa has a responsibility for its contractors, it is quite irresponsible to claim that this was a Lufthansa employee at the gate.
Another flyer is none of the person's business. If 'Thomas' was in business and the other person took the middle seat, then there would be a legitimate complaint to be had. But being in economy you don't really have a right to comment on the services provided or not provided in business, as it is not your concern.
The best course is to confront the passenger not the GA. I've seen it happen and a good proper heckling from fellow passengers usually shames the a-hole line jumper. But the trick is you have to do it immediately & loudly.
I just remember that years ago at JFK while in the security lane a guy tried to put his luggage in front of mine on the conveyor... mind you, my bag was just two feet from entering the x-ray. I promptly stood in his way & told him to get to the back of the line and wait like everyone else. My first word was a loud no, that's usually the most effective word. He sheepishly complied.
Definitely send a complaint to Lufthansa, this is not okay. Not ignoring the boarding procedure, and certainly not punishing you for pointing it out.
I'm not sure whether LH cares these days but at least give it a try. I know that LO usually goes ballistic on their handling partners for stuff like this, and they in turn usually have a word with the agent in question.
Dear Thomas,
usually gate agents outside Germany (with very few exceptions) are handling agents managing all kinds of airlines.
They are very often poorly paid and trained and have a very stressful job where they are quite frequently treated in a very not polite and sometimes rude way.
Not an excuse, just a possible explanation. In the end you can in fact blame the airlines that they got rid off their own...
Dear Thomas,
usually gate agents outside Germany (with very few exceptions) are handling agents managing all kinds of airlines.
They are very often poorly paid and trained and have a very stressful job where they are quite frequently treated in a very not polite and sometimes rude way.
Not an excuse, just a possible explanation. In the end you can in fact blame the airlines that they got rid off their own staff, the system that every penny counts and the German government which puts national carriers in a disadvantage with taxes and extra fees and on top the passengers who fly no frill carriers and add to the price struggle.
About the lady sitting in the extra seat, can’t imagine that this was tolerated by the two”neighbours” and the crew. The only thing I could think of was that it was family and she gave up her seat (in business) to sit with them because it is an extra space for comfort not a safety issue.
What you must understand of Germany is that despite the stereotype, the people are actually quite anti-establishment and the so called claim of quality and being process driven are being more and more nonexistent. An inability to fire incompetent individuals along with a false sense of superiority and the idea that the state must look after the people are actually driving a weakening and unmotivated work force. Industries are moving overseas and basically not being...
What you must understand of Germany is that despite the stereotype, the people are actually quite anti-establishment and the so called claim of quality and being process driven are being more and more nonexistent. An inability to fire incompetent individuals along with a false sense of superiority and the idea that the state must look after the people are actually driving a weakening and unmotivated work force. Industries are moving overseas and basically not being replenished. The end result is a bunch of incompetent, untrained individuals who will draw a salary into their retirement backed by ridiculous job security laws. Welcome to a dwindling Germany leading in the same direction as the situation prior to WW2. The only difference this time is that their leadership is uninspiring at best and anyone of fighting age is high on drugs or drunk. Much of the EU is not that far off from this description.
I’d say both are in the wrong for allowing little things to affect them. I can only imagine these two can’t function an entire day. Also I thought that overly obnoxious airline personnel with no knowledge of de-escalation were a trademark of America. The rest of the world should stop copying us!
Lufthansa by far is the WORST airline that you can fly with.
4 months ago I flew with them round trip business class from LAX to Rome via Frankfurt . My final destination was a remote resort @ Tuscany.
My plane was delayed 1 hour from Lax and 2 1/2 from Rome to LAX( both legs) while we were seated inside the plane.
They delayed my luggage transfer to my hotel in Tuscany...
Lufthansa by far is the WORST airline that you can fly with.
4 months ago I flew with them round trip business class from LAX to Rome via Frankfurt . My final destination was a remote resort @ Tuscany.
My plane was delayed 1 hour from Lax and 2 1/2 from Rome to LAX( both legs) while we were seated inside the plane.
They delayed my luggage transfer to my hotel in Tuscany for 5 days. For the first 3 days my luggage was sitting @ Rome airport's storage. Then it was given to DHL instead of a private company for transfer to my hotel.
DHL after 24 hours said that my hotel is too far to their office and it will take additional 3 days for delivery.
The total of my trip was only 7 days.
I ended up paying 400 euro cash for a round trip to go from my resort to the DHL office with a private driver to pick up my luggage. Once I got to my hotel and opened my suitcase, I found out that my Chanel handbag that I just had purchased it less than a year ago plus two pairs of fashion jewellery were stolen from the inside of my locked luggage.
Lufthansa paid nothing and ignored all my communications. At the end they paid $900 for the emergency purchases that I had made. If I had returned the used purchased item, then there was a cap up to almost $12oo instead of $900.
They said my emergency purchases were for personal usage and pleasure and they are not responsible for it, unless if I return them.
Zero payment for the stolen goods or what I had to pay from the pocket to do their job of suitcase delivery to my hotel.
The food on both legs was absolutely disgusting. Coffee @ room temperature. Vegetables and salads were left over of few days ago, just decorated with sauce.
My seat for departure from LAX was not cleaned and still had the mess from the previous traveler.
Comfort of the seats horrible. I could easily feel all the wiring of metals placed beneath the fabric on the chair. ( both legs)
Flight attendants service from Frankfurt to LAX extremely poor. If I could, I would grade them below zero.
Till I am alive, I will never ever fly with this terrible company again.
Worst airline is an understatement
I have had similar experiences, having to check legit carryons on a half-empty flight (their size is about a quarter inch smaller than United‘s) and I can honestly say that I am usually polite and easygoing. And don’t get me started on Covid.
I did like their efficiency and premium economy, but I find myself trying to avoid Lufthansa…
I would just say this. If the gate agent challenged everyone who snuck in line (let’s say 4-5 people per flight) and just one of those turned into a bad situation where they end up calling security and holding the boarding process for 20 minutes, everyone would suffer. It might sound defeatist but there is a balance here and sometimes better to go with the flow. There’s always some a-hole who thinks s/he is more...
I would just say this. If the gate agent challenged everyone who snuck in line (let’s say 4-5 people per flight) and just one of those turned into a bad situation where they end up calling security and holding the boarding process for 20 minutes, everyone would suffer. It might sound defeatist but there is a balance here and sometimes better to go with the flow. There’s always some a-hole who thinks s/he is more important than the rest of the world… like that driver who cut in front of you this morning. You want to rear-end him/her but it’s not worth it. Be the better person. You probably are.
The problem here is the person who had the story to tell thought that being “elite” means anything. That is a meaningless distinction. You are a plebe. Everyone else that flies commercial is a plebe.
Joseph
Pleb.... diminutive for Plebian.
Derogatory term for an ordinary person,especially one from the lower social classes.
If you cannot spell Pleb I suspect you are not the Patrician you are making out!
But you are right in one way....to airlines whether we fly in First or in Row 59 we are all trailer-trash money earning centres and we should not kid ourselves otherwise whatever 'status' we have. Problem is there...
Joseph
Pleb.... diminutive for Plebian.
Derogatory term for an ordinary person,especially one from the lower social classes.
If you cannot spell Pleb I suspect you are not the Patrician you are making out!
But you are right in one way....to airlines whether we fly in First or in Row 59 we are all trailer-trash money earning centres and we should not kid ourselves otherwise whatever 'status' we have. Problem is there are just not enough private jets to rent so we just have to suffer in silence plebs or otherwise
My simple rule is, I try to avoid to complain to front line staff. Mostly they are not the cause for what it happening, they are merely trying to process rules not controlled by them.
This one, OK so maybe the lady should not board at that time, and maybe she should have been sent back. Don't know if Lufthansa allows a companion in group 1 to have her board with them in group...
My simple rule is, I try to avoid to complain to front line staff. Mostly they are not the cause for what it happening, they are merely trying to process rules not controlled by them.
This one, OK so maybe the lady should not board at that time, and maybe she should have been sent back. Don't know if Lufthansa allows a companion in group 1 to have her board with them in group 1. Yes I get miffed when airlines don't maintain the boarding groups, but then again in Europe there is often only one or two agents present, it is limited what time they have to enforce it. Though they did have time to take a carry-on away....
But here is my most important question. Why the devil would anyone want to raise that with the gate agent? Nothing good can be gained, and there may have been good reason that would not have been obvious. If unhappy, raise it with the airline in a matter of fact way after the flight. The one truly in the wrong here, is the busybody feeling slighted that one person is allowed to board ahead of their boarding pass group, and being vocal about it.
Stop cry baby elite fliers. You're just envious that other people cut the line. I actually like LH chaotic bordering. Elites 1st and then everyone else. Not like the elitist USA airlines: Group 9 boarding. F OFF!
@Marc - Glad you hate elitist USA airlines. Hopefully I’ll never see you on one. F OFF!
@Marc - Glad we won’t see scum like you on any USA airlines. F OFF!
Three Karens in a Karen royal.
The woman may have had a disability that is not visible to other people and may have been entitled to board early. Who knows? It really is none of Thomas’ business.
I generally agree with the approach of not being confrontational with airline staff because they can make your day miserable if they want to. Just swallow your pride, have a drink, and forget about it.
The most insane airline employee on a power trip story I have happened to me when I was exhausted and trying to check in to an AA flight from Dublin to JFK a few years ago. The employee who...
I generally agree with the approach of not being confrontational with airline staff because they can make your day miserable if they want to. Just swallow your pride, have a drink, and forget about it.
The most insane airline employee on a power trip story I have happened to me when I was exhausted and trying to check in to an AA flight from Dublin to JFK a few years ago. The employee who monitors the lines stopped me from entering the elite boarding line. He didn’t believe me when I said I had gold status and made me prove it before letting me proceed to the check in line. None of the lines were crowded, it was just a punk on a power trip. But I didn’t want to cause a scene because missing that flight would have caused me a big headache.
We first have to differentiate, if the gate agent was really LH staff or just a handling agent in LHR. However, this is absolutely non acceptable :o
I really hope that this lady upgraded officially in business and just had an old boarding pass.. This would be way over the top with pushing in front of the line and upgrading herself onboard by just sitting there.. Especially coming through with it..
Usually the...
We first have to differentiate, if the gate agent was really LH staff or just a handling agent in LHR. However, this is absolutely non acceptable :o
I really hope that this lady upgraded officially in business and just had an old boarding pass.. This would be way over the top with pushing in front of the line and upgrading herself onboard by just sitting there.. Especially coming through with it..
Usually the crew checks the number of pax in business class. It's not to uncommon to sit in the B or E seat in business, for example couples or friends traveling together - but of course, 3 people in a row must be a big warning to cabin crew.
Some agents are power hungry and will do what they want to you because they can. I had an experience with United not so long ago. I was traveling on an award tix HKG-SFO-PDX in biz class. At the time of booking, biz was not available for SFO-PDX but when I was at the gate, I checked again and there were several first class seats available so I asked the gate agent if she could...
Some agents are power hungry and will do what they want to you because they can. I had an experience with United not so long ago. I was traveling on an award tix HKG-SFO-PDX in biz class. At the time of booking, biz was not available for SFO-PDX but when I was at the gate, I checked again and there were several first class seats available so I asked the gate agent if she could upgrade me. She said yes but would need additional miles to support the upgrade. I politely asked why when it was a biz class award to which she had no answer. I asked if she could get a second opinion on the matter and that must have triggered her and she became rude to me. I asked for her name but she refused to give it to me. All the while, the pilot/captain was walking behind her to board the plane and must have heard the exchange. I really couldn't care less about the upgrade for a 1.5-hour flight and I thought that was the end of the unpleasantries. Little did I know, after I settled into my seat, that same woman came onboard and spoke to a couple sitting next to me and asked them if they would like to be upgraded. They jumped for joy, of course and moved upfront. Wow! What a vengeful woman! Clearly, she did that to spite me. Moments later, another flight attendant came to me with a nice bottle of wine ($35 retail, I looked) and a business card and a note from the captain thanking me for my business. I was fuming and appeased at the same time.
Didn’t happen. 100% lie. UA doesn’t serve any $35 wines on domestic first class. Stop lying. Typical Portland liberal delusion.
PDX is the only international airport in Oregon, so Mikey could be from any other conservative part of the state. For that matter, if he’s lying he could be from anywhere; he could even be you. Typical smooth brain shortsightedness.
Lies! UA doesn’t serve $35 wines in domestic F class.
I cannot comprehend why one would care so much if a person got different treatment or special treatment. MYOB in my opinion on this one. Gate agents at most all airports do not work for the airlines but for a handling company. Granted airline service has deteriorated but airlines took a big blow during COVID and are still recovering. Staff shortages are rampant in the industry. Be happy someone was there to check you in...
I cannot comprehend why one would care so much if a person got different treatment or special treatment. MYOB in my opinion on this one. Gate agents at most all airports do not work for the airlines but for a handling company. Granted airline service has deteriorated but airlines took a big blow during COVID and are still recovering. Staff shortages are rampant in the industry. Be happy someone was there to check you in and get you in the sky on time. This complaint reminds me of a time where I was flying with my family and we all had different seats. My child was about 1 year old at the time. The flight attendant graciously allowed us to switch seat with someone which allowed me to sit with my child. A passenger who had the adjacent seat to me (previously empty seat) made such a fuss with the flight attendant the entire flight. He proceeded to hog the armrest and forced me to make it perfectly clear to him that if he continued with his behaviour that there would be problems for him once we deplaned. You were on a short haul flight and wasting your energy complaining about what is essentially a non issue. The airlines have bigger complaints and issues to deal with. Get a life.
It's hard to believe the second part of the story because it doesn't make sense. Maybe Thomas wants to have an attention, who knows. But the first part is not about her, it's about Lufthansa. Thomas should complain to lh formally via email because it seems like a common issue at lh. Why bother with one agent when you know there is no enforcement for her a d it happens all the time? Even more...
It's hard to believe the second part of the story because it doesn't make sense. Maybe Thomas wants to have an attention, who knows. But the first part is not about her, it's about Lufthansa. Thomas should complain to lh formally via email because it seems like a common issue at lh. Why bother with one agent when you know there is no enforcement for her a d it happens all the time? Even more so I hate it when ordinary Germans on street try to be the police and enforce rules. It is not their job and in many cases they can be wrong when they don't know the context of the situation. What's worse is when they try to push their own value on tourists, like I was once told not to use credit cards because visa is an American company that takes away the money when his company obviously accepts visa cards....I can go on and on based on my countless travels to Germany and multiple medium term stays. What is even more sad is that Germans just genuinely stress about these things to the core that sometimes I feel that they are gonna have a heart attack...very sad. Life is beautiful and we just need to enjoy it and be smart about how to make things work for us. Just telling people to follow the rules won't work when someone is already in violation...
Since so many folks are wondering whether it was a non-rev - the person in question had a PRC passport. The agent was not German, based on her accent she sounded Scandinavian, not British, but can't be sure.
Also to the folks that are wondering why I spoke up - I always speak up when I feel something is wrong. I don't want any miles, I don't want that I get a boarding position...
Since so many folks are wondering whether it was a non-rev - the person in question had a PRC passport. The agent was not German, based on her accent she sounded Scandinavian, not British, but can't be sure.
Also to the folks that are wondering why I spoke up - I always speak up when I feel something is wrong. I don't want any miles, I don't want that I get a boarding position ahead. I am doing it in the hopes that if enough people say something, things will change.
Here is what I precisely said: "I noticed that the person in front of me was in the wrong boarding group, but somehow she was able to board anyway". That's all I said, nothing more, nothing less.
By the way, I don't even complain about the fact that she just brushed me off - I pretty much expected that. I complain about the fact that she then started punishing me - and was totally in the wrong. Forcing me to check my carry on bag by claiming I have two carry ons was plain wrong - according to any and all LH rules. This means it was abuse of power, and an agent like this should not get away with it - end of story.
I totally agree with you! I would definitely have raised this issue and I would have made a formal complaint to the airline afterwards. It should also be noted that I always provide positive feedback directly to employees and to thei airline concerned when there are good reasons to do so.
"I am doing it in the hopes that if enough people say something, things will change."
You're going to live a very frustrated life. Get over it and mind your own business.
Maybe the noncompliant woman was a bad non-rev, and knew the GA, and a crew member? Still doesn't justify her behavior, but could explain a few things....
The best-case scenario when complaining to a US or EU airline employee is that you will be asked quite sternly, "are we going to have a problem?" Nothing good will EVER come from that interaction, so there is no point. As for sitting in the "blocked" seat, I am not sure what to say. Intraeuropean "business" class is a joke funnier than calling the front cabin of domestic US flights "first class." I've never understood...
The best-case scenario when complaining to a US or EU airline employee is that you will be asked quite sternly, "are we going to have a problem?" Nothing good will EVER come from that interaction, so there is no point. As for sitting in the "blocked" seat, I am not sure what to say. Intraeuropean "business" class is a joke funnier than calling the front cabin of domestic US flights "first class." I've never understood the point of sitting in an economy seat for twice the price, unless you are using the flight to connect to a "real" business class long-haul.
Often connecting traffic in
Business Class moving to a widebodied jet. A lot of intraEuropean business class is corporate and paid for by the company. There’s also more ticket flexibility, bag allowance and lounge access ( to those who aren’t members of the carrier’s loyalty scheme).
I am a LH Senator and I can relate to this
story easily. A lot of times Lufthansa will call first class, business class and status members to start boarding and in a lot of cases this is not checked and
enforced.
I do not complain because of the same reasons people mentioned here: I usually travel with a laptop backpack and a carry-on trolley. And I do not want to be asked to leave the trolley to be stored away.
I can’t agree more. LH/LX are not usually enforcing boarding sequence …
No surprise unfortunately. I was on the FRA-DTW flight on September 29th and the LH gate agents were literally screaming at everyone at the gate for the entire boarding process. I was the most unorganized chaos I had ever seen at an airport and I'm very well-traveled. I have no idea what has happened to LH in general. They are now in the 2-3 star range. They were once a great airline but I've seen...
No surprise unfortunately. I was on the FRA-DTW flight on September 29th and the LH gate agents were literally screaming at everyone at the gate for the entire boarding process. I was the most unorganized chaos I had ever seen at an airport and I'm very well-traveled. I have no idea what has happened to LH in general. They are now in the 2-3 star range. They were once a great airline but I've seen them go down quickly in the past couple of years so I'll be avoiding them going forward.
The gate agent might not be in the right but arguing with a power hungry gate agent will only get you problems. Gate lice are an issue at every airline and every airline has gate agents that let people board whenever. It's annoying but the gate agent runs the show and you're just there to observe the circus.
And airline management is too busy figuring out ways to make money other than actually flying planes than to be concerned about your "encounter."
Restaurant servers often consider spitting in Tom’s food.
Turning this around a bit, is there any way that blocked middle middle seat could have been booked as an exception? Could a party of three demanded to sit for any reason (ex. medical) or could this have been a last minute purchase of business class ticket that necessitated this arrangement to avoid moving passengers with paid assigned seats booked in economy?
British Airways has previously assigned middle seats in their euro premium cabins when...
Turning this around a bit, is there any way that blocked middle middle seat could have been booked as an exception? Could a party of three demanded to sit for any reason (ex. medical) or could this have been a last minute purchase of business class ticket that necessitated this arrangement to avoid moving passengers with paid assigned seats booked in economy?
British Airways has previously assigned middle seats in their euro premium cabins when there have been operational issues and perhaps the reservation system was limited to prevent a higher boarding priority? I’m my experience, Germans tend to follow social rules and would not allow an interloper to to get away with an obvious violation (Hence the over reaction by the agent).
Lufthansa employees behave too often like it's 1939. This is not an isolated incident.
She may just have been flying with a staff ticket. Crew members can and often upgrade staff passengers. That happens in LH and any other airline.
As in all dealings in the general public, the MYOB rule always applies. What happened was such a Karen move. Someone snuck in. Life goes on. Someone sat in a middle seat and didn't inconvenience you in the least. Life goes on.
Who appointed the passenger as the rule monitor? How did they think challenging the gate agent was going to go? FAFO.
Delicate, useless and overly sensitive people (such as this gate agent) is the reason for the economic shithole that is Europe today.
Get a thicker skin and make yourselves useful.
Yeah? If it was in the states, probably someone would have been shot right away. Bloody Americans
"bloody Americans" lol. Like we care what some woke butter-toothed Brit thinks about us!
Poor Brommie. Did you throw another toy out of your pram and now having a hissy fit. Or did you just look in the mirror and realize what a disgusting set of teeth you were stricken with.
Ah yes the oh so powerful US ECONOMY. whatever tf that means lol
Hey hey guys. Don’t fight. China owns all of you.
We have to understand that once past security at airports we’ve entered into another world, the world of an authoritarian regime. As with all authoritarian regimes it’s best to stay low and keep quiet.
Absolutely. My goal is to get to my destination and not to give anyone the opportunity to add any more misery to an already awful experience. Cowardly? Perhaps; but complaining to or about the petit autocrats is futile.
Ben, your coverage of LH is inordinately repleat. Between my own experiences with the LH group, comments from so many other readers about their LH experiences, and LH's repeated reprehensible "incidents," I will not fly LH unless there is truly no other option available.
How is flying from LHR mean the lady was German? Aren't the chances she is Anglo, with all its entitlement and culture of selectively enforcing rules?
The gate agents in LHR aren’t Lufthansa staff so you can’t blame LH for this situation at the gate. This is a contracted company.
Furthermore do you know if the lady might had a business class ticket or not? If 2 people travelling together in business class , they often sit next to each other. So one is sitting in that ‘your free space seat’.
"The gate agents in LHR aren’t Lufthansa staff so you can’t blame LH for this situation at the gate. This is a contracted company."
Yes, one can blame Lufthansa. They hire the "talent," they're responsible for monitoring that the talent performs to contracted levels. Many ways to do that.
No excuse for the lady sitting in a "Your Space" seat. If she was ticketed in biz class (she wasn't), she needs to sit in the...
"The gate agents in LHR aren’t Lufthansa staff so you can’t blame LH for this situation at the gate. This is a contracted company."
Yes, one can blame Lufthansa. They hire the "talent," they're responsible for monitoring that the talent performs to contracted levels. Many ways to do that.
No excuse for the lady sitting in a "Your Space" seat. If she was ticketed in biz class (she wasn't), she needs to sit in the assigned aisle or window, not in the middle where she's encroaching on others who were ticketed with the promise of an empty seat next to them.
I had a somewhat but slightly different experience recently on a KLM flight from Dublin to Amsterdam.
I was seated in Business class (3-3) configuration. I was seated in 1F. A woman barged on the plane and sat down inbetween myself and the passenger in 1D. I initially thought she may just be sitting down briefly to get organised. But no, she took out our iPad and sat there!
The staff asked her...
I had a somewhat but slightly different experience recently on a KLM flight from Dublin to Amsterdam.
I was seated in Business class (3-3) configuration. I was seated in 1F. A woman barged on the plane and sat down inbetween myself and the passenger in 1D. I initially thought she may just be sitting down briefly to get organised. But no, she took out our iPad and sat there!
The staff asked her to move but when she didn’t they explained the flight would be further delayed if she was removed from the plane. I had a very tight 50 minute connection to make a flight to Geneva. The passenger in 1F also had a tight connection.
So she sat there for the entire flight and didn’t make eye contact. Whilst the flight is only over an hour long I was FURIOUS.
I will say the staff did apologise but also did not want to seemingly deal with the issue. I will note she was not served and beverage or food (you get a complimentary snack/beverage even in economy on KLM) and security were at the plane when we landed in Amsterdam.
As Ben stated, the airlines will do nothing. I complained to KLM (I’m Flying Blue Gold) and they said sorry and that’s it!
What do you want them to do ? Drag her off ? Why didn’t you do something then ? They are limited in what they can do without causing a delay due to slots. So in your opinion the best solution was to disrupt the flight and delay everyone until she was offloaded or reseated.
You never know that she was probably had elite status and assumed she had the right.
Half a year ago, Lufthansa changed their leaving-the-middle-seat-empty policy on European short hauls from guaranteed to when available. Their web page still says the middle seat is always empty, but the actual booking process shows middle seat empty when available. For details, see https://loyaltylobby.com/2023/03/05/lufthansa-short-haul-business-class-now-has-the-empty-middle-seat-only-where-available/ . It contains a link to the Lufthansa product description web page and the actual verbiage shown in the booking process.
Half a year ago, Lufthansa changed their leaving-the-middle-seat-empty policy on European short hauls from guaranteed to when available. Their web page still says the middle seat is always empty, but the actual booking process shows middle seat empty when available. For details, see https://loyaltylobby.com/2023/03/05/lufthansa-short-haul-business-class-now-has-the-empty-middle-seat-only-where-available/ . It contains a link to the Lufthansa product description web page and the actual verbiage shown in the booking process.
Not true !
Wir garantieren Ihnen auf der gesamten Europaflotte einen freien Nebensitz und somit mehr Privatsphäre.
Mind your business, plain and simple. It doesn't affect you. I fail to understand why people allow things that have nothing to do with them, to occupy their brain space. Move on.
I agree. The lady who sat in the middle should have sat in her assigned seat in the back of the plane, thereby minding her own business and not encroaching on the space of ticketed business class customers.
@Alonzo
https://onemileatatime.com/insights/respect-masks-planes/
So when people chose to wear a mask on their own and were getting harassed, you didn't tell the harassers to "mind their own business", and claim they're "well intentioned", but when it comes to people breaking rules and sowing disorder, it's "mind your own business"?
This is indeed a very interesting situation and very indicative of the "me" society in which we currently live. For me personally, I would not have said anything and like Lucky, I want to remain as down-low as possible during the boarding process. However, to take the devil's advocate role in this - what if everyone in line would have said something and questioned the gate agent? It's only then that real change occurs. Equate...
This is indeed a very interesting situation and very indicative of the "me" society in which we currently live. For me personally, I would not have said anything and like Lucky, I want to remain as down-low as possible during the boarding process. However, to take the devil's advocate role in this - what if everyone in line would have said something and questioned the gate agent? It's only then that real change occurs. Equate this to repeatedly going to a restaurant with bad food or poor service - it's only when everyone stops going that the restaurant will either improve or eventually go out of business. Change only occurs when people ban together. Boarding in wrong groups happens all the time on all airlines. Maybe we should all ban together and demand change??
I agree with you. Less interaction at the gate, the better. What did he think was going to happen, or what did he want to happen? He wanted the gate agent to stop the boarding process, get the woman who skipped her spot to get off the plane, restart the process and let him board? Besides being ridiculous, that would have taken longer. And if he didn't need overhead space for his tiny bag, then...
I agree with you. Less interaction at the gate, the better. What did he think was going to happen, or what did he want to happen? He wanted the gate agent to stop the boarding process, get the woman who skipped her spot to get off the plane, restart the process and let him board? Besides being ridiculous, that would have taken longer. And if he didn't need overhead space for his tiny bag, then what was his rush? Yes we all love rules, but for some reason, flying makes some people unhinged in a way that nothing else does. I don't get it.
I would venture to guess he was wanting the GA to follow their job and not allow people to just board whenever. Why have groups if it’s not enforced.
My job is also easier if I DGAF but that doesn’t mean that’s what I do.
I agree, MYOB. But why ask such stupid questions?
On my flight to FCO earlier this week the DFW AA GA refused a Group 4 couple attempting to board with Group 1. Enforcement seems to be inconsistent though. I’m with Ben, I keep quiet and more importantly I follow the rules with respect to boarding order and carryon regulations. I don’t need to complicate my travel life.
Typical of the rude unprofessional behavior from Lufthansa employees. I have a flight with them next week and I am not looking forward to it. I live in Germany so not much choice. Typisch dumme Deutsche!!
Anyone who tries to excuse the FA is objectively wrong. OP seemingly didn't use any foul language or was rude with the gate agent at any moment (making a critical comment without disrespecting anyone is not rude), so such a response from her is absolutely uncalled for. I have (unfortunately) witnessed a fair share of both self-entitled passengers and airline employees on power trips... but are we really at a point where we have to...
Anyone who tries to excuse the FA is objectively wrong. OP seemingly didn't use any foul language or was rude with the gate agent at any moment (making a critical comment without disrespecting anyone is not rude), so such a response from her is absolutely uncalled for. I have (unfortunately) witnessed a fair share of both self-entitled passengers and airline employees on power trips... but are we really at a point where we have to behave as if we were in some sort of oppressed regime when dealing with FAs/gate agents and the whole lot out of fear they'll take vengeance?
@Thomas did you get the gate agent's name or some sort of employee number? Obviously I expect you won't make that info publicly available, but I really hope you have escalated this with LH... I wouldn't want to encounter one of these power-hungry wannabes who is unable to fulfil their tasks (and a especially basic one in this particular case).
GA, not FA
The simple answer is "you do you" and let other people take care of themselves and you'll be fine assuming you play by the rules.
Some people want to be in the position of power the gate agent has and feel slighted if anything doesn't go by their standard - and life just doesn't work that way.
Perhaps the guy will learn to just worry about himself - or else face a lifetime of disappointments.
Airline employees will take care of everyone else.
And this is why we can't have nice things.
YOU can have whatever you want.
But if you are worried about what someone else gets, you will ENSURE that you never enjoy what you enjoy.
As others above note, just MYOB and accept that life is not perfect. Others will get something for free or less than what you paid.
U are kidding, right ? Just ignore the rules and not get the benefits our various card flight statuses allow. Nah. No way. Nobody gets a freebie on or over me .
Can I understand being curious/ miffed(?) about the woman’s interaction that got her boarded early? Sure.
Can I understand questioning the gate agent about it? Of course not! What possible upside was there for that? Only downside. Which is what happened. Like the meme, he f*cked around and found out.
I believe it, and it’s not just LH. Monday I watched an AA GA make the first person boarding the plane put her bag in the sizer. It kinda fit, but not perfectly. The pax asked if she could take her jacket out of the front (it would 100% fit then) and the GS yelled “NO! IT DIDN’T FIT, IT MUST BE CHECKED”
Remember I said first person boarding? The woman had an exec plat...
I believe it, and it’s not just LH. Monday I watched an AA GA make the first person boarding the plane put her bag in the sizer. It kinda fit, but not perfectly. The pax asked if she could take her jacket out of the front (it would 100% fit then) and the GS yelled “NO! IT DIDN’T FIT, IT MUST BE CHECKED”
Remember I said first person boarding? The woman had an exec plat tag on her bag. Even worse for AA, she boarded at the Concierge Key call. What a way to treat your best customers
But it gets worse. Three blatantly drunk ppl board much later, also sitting in F. 2 of the 3 could barely fit their bags in the bin, had to place them parallel to the aisle. These things were huge, but somehow the GA let those fly while disciplining the concierge key member (who would have been in compliance if she could have taken her jacket out)
GA’s never make sense and love a power trip. Ben’s right though, it’s better to just be quiet, otherwise they’ll just escalate like this LH situation
I am the guy that spoke up. I simply believe in speaking up when something is wrong. I did it very politely by the way - but she clearly realized she was being called out and she was in the wrong.
I don't care if I board as 20th or 21st. But LH has chaotic boarding where everyone does whatever they want - and that's not ok. I would speak up again, even if...
I am the guy that spoke up. I simply believe in speaking up when something is wrong. I did it very politely by the way - but she clearly realized she was being called out and she was in the wrong.
I don't care if I board as 20th or 21st. But LH has chaotic boarding where everyone does whatever they want - and that's not ok. I would speak up again, even if an overzealous agent that is in the wrong punishes me. And yes, I will report her - because if you don't say anything, nothing will change.
I saw a funny interaction at the security line, a woman jumped ahead of two men (who didn't dare say anything). When they came up to the detector - the security person who somehow had seen this - stopped her, let her wait and let the two men go in front of her. I very much enjoyed seeing that. I don't like it when entitled people jump.queues or think they can get away with whatever they want because they are pushy and aggressive.
A pity it was badly handled by Menzies who I believe handle all star alliance carriers at LHR , but you will report her and they will say thanks for your feedback and maybe give you some miles. The fact is people don’t follow rules are selfish, and they don’t care and wait until it’s their turn. This includes a neighbouring passenger on a flight last week who insisted on stretching her legs to the...
A pity it was badly handled by Menzies who I believe handle all star alliance carriers at LHR , but you will report her and they will say thanks for your feedback and maybe give you some miles. The fact is people don’t follow rules are selfish, and they don’t care and wait until it’s their turn. This includes a neighbouring passenger on a flight last week who insisted on stretching her legs to the side into my space. I kindly reminded her and she kept doing it. The flight was full so there wasn’t a solution. I accidentally dropped my bag on her feet when getting ready to disembark.
Because nobody gets to be as entitled as you? The GA had to make a judgment call. Option 1: Let the woman go through and don't delay the boarding process.
Option 2: Delay the boarding process but strictly enforce the rules.
Option 1, in this case, makes everyone's life easier (though it will upset some literally entitled people). It's a reasonable call to make for the GA.
Spare me the "believe in speaking up when something is wrong" sanctimony.
Another example of someone meaninglessly throwing around the word "entitled." If you want to be literal, yes, Tom was entitled to board when he did based on his boarding group, while the woman was not. However, in common parlance, only the woman's behavior was "entitled."
That said, I agree overall with TSR123. Gate agent was just trying to get the plane boarded in a timely fashion, and it's not worth fighting one line-jumper. And Tom,...
Another example of someone meaninglessly throwing around the word "entitled." If you want to be literal, yes, Tom was entitled to board when he did based on his boarding group, while the woman was not. However, in common parlance, only the woman's behavior was "entitled."
That said, I agree overall with TSR123. Gate agent was just trying to get the plane boarded in a timely fashion, and it's not worth fighting one line-jumper. And Tom, while technically right, sounds like he needs to join a HOA board or something, so he can practice his passion for bravely calling out rule-breakers in a more accepting environment.
Tom
I salute you for speaking up
I would not myself dare, but your right some of the these people, have to be told, that what they are doing is not right :)
I sat in that middle seat once. Actually on LH flights if the Business Class isn’t full, these seats are made available for economy. I reserved 3 seats for me and the kids in row 3 while checking in and was surprised to see that one of us had to sit in the “Your space” seat. We had economy tickets.
Having a gate agent on a power trip punishing the wrong people is unacceptable though.
Everyone is kind of in the wrong here. Obviously the agent was in the wrong, because being punitive with a customer is clearly unprofessional. Obviously the woman involved either didn't understand *anything* or more likely felt entitled to pursue her own agenda. As for the reader, arguing with a customer service agent is a zero-sum game. I've watched countless overly entitled passengers argue with agents over the years with only rare examples of success. It's...
Everyone is kind of in the wrong here. Obviously the agent was in the wrong, because being punitive with a customer is clearly unprofessional. Obviously the woman involved either didn't understand *anything* or more likely felt entitled to pursue her own agenda. As for the reader, arguing with a customer service agent is a zero-sum game. I've watched countless overly entitled passengers argue with agents over the years with only rare examples of success. It's just not worth it. I might have given a look to the agent like, "Can you believe this lady?" or maybe made a small comment about how some passengers are too good to follow the rules. In either case, it wouldn't be directed at the agent, because that goes down a potentially fraught path. Yes, she didn't do her job correctly, but pointing that out leaves nothing to gain and much to lose.
Fascinanting story for the always annoying and boring LH flights he he... I wouldnt have minded to be there
I purposely did not describe her - does that say enough? She sat in the middle seat, and what appeared to be her husband sat in the window seat in business class. The aisle seat was taken by someone that clearly did not belong to this group. That's what was so odd about it. She clearly did not have a biz class ticket otherwise her boarding group would have been 1. Her husband (I presume)...
I purposely did not describe her - does that say enough? She sat in the middle seat, and what appeared to be her husband sat in the window seat in business class. The aisle seat was taken by someone that clearly did not belong to this group. That's what was so odd about it. She clearly did not have a biz class ticket otherwise her boarding group would have been 1. Her husband (I presume) who boarded right before her apparently did. I do not know what happened. All I can say is she wasn't sent back to economy or perhaps I missed it.
I’m in the same boat as you Lucky- I always want to say something, but am totally afraid of pissing off the gate agent. I’ll occasionally make a joke or try humor the gate agent in those situations, but will not be critical of them. Only bad things can come from that.
Why? I mean just why you want to say something about other people work. Do you like at your job other people not related to your work to point out what you doing wrong? Omg why people just don’t mind their own business?
Mindy business? Following the rules is all our business. Not stealing is all our business.
The problem is that an airport gate agent is calling our bluff. Our only threat/leverage is refusing to board demanding escalation locally with his/her supervisor, and missing the flight. The gate agent knows that almost nobody is willing to do that. Ben, how many times have you, at the gate, decided not to board, so you could litigate a service issue? It's a thrill. But which of us ever feels able to do that? These...
The problem is that an airport gate agent is calling our bluff. Our only threat/leverage is refusing to board demanding escalation locally with his/her supervisor, and missing the flight. The gate agent knows that almost nobody is willing to do that. Ben, how many times have you, at the gate, decided not to board, so you could litigate a service issue? It's a thrill. But which of us ever feels able to do that? These Little Napoleons know that and they take advantage.
We need a better description of the woman.
Tom says he did not describe - "is that enough?"
I think the previous comment that restaurant servers often consider spitting in Tom's food is correct ...