Hello, live from a mostly excellent (as usual) transatlantic Air France business class flight… and I have a question!
In this post:
Kids scream at top of their lungs, parents do nothing
A lot of people get unreasonably frustrated with children (especially infants and toddlers) on flights. Kids can sometimes be hard to control and can most definitely be annoying to people around them, but they’re part of society. Airplanes are a form of transportation, so as unpleasant as it might be, you should expect that kids will sometimes scream on flights.
While we haven’t done much travel yet with our younger son, we’ve had a couple of flights with our older son, Miles, where I just wanted to crawl into a hole out of embarrassment. The thing is, as parents we do our best, especially on planes. Sometimes that’s not perfect, but we try.
I remember traveling with Miles across the Atlantic when he was two years old, and just thinking to myself “ugh, I don’t need to repeat that any time soon.”
But that brings me to the daytime transatlantic flight we’re on right now. There’s a family of six seated near us in business class, with four kids and two parents. The kids maybe range in age from four to 12(ish). Let me mention that the dad is completely checked out — he’s sitting in a window seat, and I don’t think he has communicated with the kids once.
One child in particular has just been screaming on and off the entire flight (the others aren’t angels, but by comparison…). And I mean S-C-R-E-A-M-I-N-G. Not crying out of discomfort, or anything, but yelling at the top of her lungs due to lack of manners (or something) and lack of parental intervention. Whatever the loudest volume you can imagine, that’s the volume at which she’s yelling. And that says nothing of the constant climbing on seats.
The parents are disinterested. Maybe every 10 minutes the mom would just go “shhh” once, but that’s it. Otherwise she has just been left alone to yell at everyone, including her siblings, and neither parent could care less.
At what point do you complain about kids on planes?
As I always say, you should never confront other passengers directly onboard aircraft, since that can quickly escalate. So if you have an issue, you should direct it at the crew, since they’re the ones in a position of power to deal with such a situation, without it escalating unnecessarily.
Also, quite honestly, we’re a gay couple traveling with a kid, and let’s just say that the family doesn’t give friendly vibes, and they appear to be from a “sanctioned” country that isn’t known for being particularly gay friendly. Maybe they’re not homophobic, but I’m being more cautious than I’d be at a Taylor Swift concert (not that I’d be at a Taylor Swift concert).
Anyway, we put up with this for hours. Finally at about the halfway point of the flight, our son was sound asleep (we’ve convinced him it’s an overnight flight, and that the rule on the plane is that everyone has to sleep), and then this girl goes on one of her shouting tirades for no damn reason, and the parents do nothing.
So Ford finally politely went to the galley and complained to the crew. I recognize this puts the crew in an uncomfortable position, and I feel badly for them, but I also think it’s the lesser of the evils. To the crew’s credit, they handled it incredibly well.
They approached the parents, and the mother’s response was simply “we will give her something now.” Ummm, I don’t even know what that means, but you could also just spend some time with your child and try to entertain her.
While things got a little better, initially it wasn’t a huge improvement. Fortunately the crew literally stood in the cabin for some amount of time hovering over the child’s seat, and directly telling her (politely) that she needed to be quiet. I think she took it a bit more seriously when it came from strangers (not that her mother ever told her anything, other than “shhh”), but they really kept at it. They also kept telling the parents that they needed to do something. That’s how it’s done.
So to me that raises the question — at what point is it appropriate to complain about the behavior of other passengers? After five minutes? After five hours? Never? Obviously it’s a delicate balance with kids. You can’t help if an infant screams once in a while, but when the parents literally just don’t even try, it’s hard to not get frustrated.
Bottom line
It has been some time since I’ve seen as poorly of a behaved child as I have on my current flight, where the parents just seemingly don’t care. I hate to put the crew into an uncomfortable situation, but in this case, it really crossed a line, in my opinion.
Fortunately the crew was great, first addressing the parents, and then when that didn’t fully work, addressing the kids. The situation definitely got better.
So I’ll pose the question I asked above — at what point would you complain about poorly behaved children on flights, where parents don’t put in any effort? Have you ever found yourself in such a situation?
My kids generally behaved very well on flights. The one exception was on a flight where the FAs decided that we were running too late ( first flight delayed, causing an overly tight connection) for my 2 yr old son's carseat to be installed, and they took it to store elsewhwere on the plane. He spent close to half an hour crying (not screaming, but still not too quiet) for the carseat before falling asleep....
My kids generally behaved very well on flights. The one exception was on a flight where the FAs decided that we were running too late ( first flight delayed, causing an overly tight connection) for my 2 yr old son's carseat to be installed, and they took it to store elsewhwere on the plane. He spent close to half an hour crying (not screaming, but still not too quiet) for the carseat before falling asleep. I am sure that some of the other pax were not happy about the noise, but there was little I could do. One FA had the nerve to berate me for the crying, but I pointed out that if it bothered him, he could just bring back the seat and help me install it!
I think that if someone can afford business class tickets for four small kids, they should have a run of the place. Must be part of 1% league, certainly not working class. Bernie Sanders to the rescue.
Dogs react to the mental state of their owners. If the dog owner is uptight about meeting other people or dogs, then their own dog will pickup the vibe.
Poor parenting inevitably leads to badly behaved children. Prior preparation and planning, including taking full responsibility for the care of one’s children during the flight is the key. More often than not it leads to happier children, relaxed parents a contented cabin environment for all...
Dogs react to the mental state of their owners. If the dog owner is uptight about meeting other people or dogs, then their own dog will pickup the vibe.
Poor parenting inevitably leads to badly behaved children. Prior preparation and planning, including taking full responsibility for the care of one’s children during the flight is the key. More often than not it leads to happier children, relaxed parents a contented cabin environment for all to enjoy.
Don’t try to reinvent the wheel Ben, take note, Yes? …. :-)
Complaining About Russians On Flights: When Is It Appropriate?
Add influencers to that Nick …. :-)
Pets are also part of society, yet they are no allowed in many flights, and rules are very strict they times they are.
It's just majority rule. Lots of people have kids, so the bussiness savy thing to do it to not just alloe them, but even get them preferential treatment when necessary.
On the other hand, people with pets on flights have to do at some times an absurd list of beurocratic...
Pets are also part of society, yet they are no allowed in many flights, and rules are very strict they times they are.
It's just majority rule. Lots of people have kids, so the bussiness savy thing to do it to not just alloe them, but even get them preferential treatment when necessary.
On the other hand, people with pets on flights have to do at some times an absurd list of beurocratic paperwork, checks and pay extra for the "privilege" of doing so.
It doesn't matter if the pet is well behaved, do not have hair that could cause allergy, and is extremely important for that person's life.
So, I dislike kids on plane being loud mostly because of this double standard.
Off topic, but I haven't seen you write about TSA precheck touchless yet. Having kids adds an extra complication since it is a bit of a mess right now! Each airline handles it differently. Possibly a good post topic.
Any reasonable parent will clamp down on disruptive behavior immediately. It's time to complain if it goes on for more than a few minutes. At that point, it is pretty clear you are dealing with negligent parents and the problem is going to continue until someone intervenes.
If the child can communicate, i.e. talk and understand conversation, then its on the parents for lack of discipline at home. The parents on that regards needs to be reprimanded and spanked (I'm not joking)! Its their lack of child awareness. Also, having 4 kids with one screaming, they should have really used protection since they really should not be procreating. If they are also seated near business, the airline should have moved them towards...
If the child can communicate, i.e. talk and understand conversation, then its on the parents for lack of discipline at home. The parents on that regards needs to be reprimanded and spanked (I'm not joking)! Its their lack of child awareness. Also, having 4 kids with one screaming, they should have really used protection since they really should not be procreating. If they are also seated near business, the airline should have moved them towards the back of the plane.
Surely the crew should notice and intervene before a pax feels the need to?
I once had to endure the screaming on an overnight flight and the crew asked if I’d slept well!!!! Had to laugh.
"they appear to be from a “sanctioned” country that isn’t known for being particularly gay friendly." I'm a longtime reader, but that is very poor from you, Ben. At least, if you want to unreasonably bash Russians, then have the stones to actually say it directly. My bigger point, though, is why on earth do you think where they are from is relevant? You should also take into consideration that the child may have disabilities...
"they appear to be from a “sanctioned” country that isn’t known for being particularly gay friendly." I'm a longtime reader, but that is very poor from you, Ben. At least, if you want to unreasonably bash Russians, then have the stones to actually say it directly. My bigger point, though, is why on earth do you think where they are from is relevant? You should also take into consideration that the child may have disabilities that you are unaware of. I, for example, have an autistic child (who is Russian-American, by the way) who can have outbursts and tantrums, no matter how much I try to control them.
If the kids are so poorly behaved why wouldn’t the crew do something on their own? Don’t see why they have to wait till someone complains.
The problem is not kids screaming as such. Kids can be afraid of flying or uncomfortable because of the change in air pressure.
The problem, which isn't limited to aircrafts, is bad-mannered kids. And eventually the problem is down to parents. I experienced exactly the same with a family from Saudi Arabia (one man -I guess it was the Dad-, two nannies, four kids) and the kids were absolute nuts. I IMMEDIATELY complained to the...
The problem is not kids screaming as such. Kids can be afraid of flying or uncomfortable because of the change in air pressure.
The problem, which isn't limited to aircrafts, is bad-mannered kids. And eventually the problem is down to parents. I experienced exactly the same with a family from Saudi Arabia (one man -I guess it was the Dad-, two nannies, four kids) and the kids were absolute nuts. I IMMEDIATELY complained to the crew.
It seems that, in some parts of the world, some people think it's ok to behave nuts as soon as they have a half-decent bank account. It isn't. No matter which cabin you're travelling in.
So when is it appropriate? I'd say:
- if bad-manners -> immediately
- if it's just a baby having tantrum -> I'd refrain from involving the crew nor confronting parents (this can really happen to everyone)
On a recent overnight long haul there was a screaming baby, maybe about 8 months old, in a car seat. It was keeping my kids up. The parents seemed totally unengaged. I went over and offered, as a parent myself, that maybe they need a little help and would they like for me to hold the baby. They said they’re trying to get him to sleep. They got the message and the second they took...
On a recent overnight long haul there was a screaming baby, maybe about 8 months old, in a car seat. It was keeping my kids up. The parents seemed totally unengaged. I went over and offered, as a parent myself, that maybe they need a little help and would they like for me to hold the baby. They said they’re trying to get him to sleep. They got the message and the second they took him out of the car seat he fell silent and right to sleep.
Maybe a plane isn’t the best place to sleep train your child.
As soon as they scream for 5+ minutes without a reasonable - and effective - reaction it's a fair game. Give them benzos for all I care.
Upset or sick two-year-olds are a living hell, and I think everyone knows it and understands. Infants, well, sometimes they just cry for no reason and it can be like the devil himself has taken up residence in their soul. A four year-old, however, should know better. We flew a lot as kids, and if we’d behaved like that we would have been taken into a toilet cubicle, been given three sharp smacks on the...
Upset or sick two-year-olds are a living hell, and I think everyone knows it and understands. Infants, well, sometimes they just cry for no reason and it can be like the devil himself has taken up residence in their soul. A four year-old, however, should know better. We flew a lot as kids, and if we’d behaved like that we would have been taken into a toilet cubicle, been given three sharp smacks on the bottom, and it would have been clear that our conduct was unsatisfactory. It sounds like Veruca Salt Junior needed exactly the same, but her parents were too useless and apathetic to sort her out.
In this current snowflake generation.
That would be child abuse.
Power trip crew would declare a "level 3" threat and divert to the nearest airport where a SEAL team is waiting for you.
And the lavatory is so damm small, you couldn't smack anything even if you wanted to.
Trust me Eskimo, the facilities in F are adequately suitable for the administration of a good thrashing to an unruly monster, yes?
PeteAU, gets it …. :-)
A smack on the bottom is hardly a “thrashing”, but yes, the loos up front are often spacious enough for the job.
If the parents do not seem to be trying to keep the child quiet then I would complain to crew immediately.
If they are trying and the child is having a melt down probably because he/she has to wear a seat belt or sit in a seat for hours ,then I would not complain until later .
Between 1987 and 2007 ,my wife and I travelled regularly from Hong Kong (where I worked...
If the parents do not seem to be trying to keep the child quiet then I would complain to crew immediately.
If they are trying and the child is having a melt down probably because he/she has to wear a seat belt or sit in a seat for hours ,then I would not complain until later .
Between 1987 and 2007 ,my wife and I travelled regularly from Hong Kong (where I worked for 25years ), to London with 2 children from when they were babies to teenagers , it is not easy and I have some sympathy for parents who try to resolve the issues . Japan Airlines and ANA provide a seat map online showing where children are sitting , so passengers can book seats elsewhere .Malaysia does not allow children under 2 years in business .
When we travelled with our children ,we always travelled economy as we did not wish to irritate other passengers in Business class , but times have changed and many people no longer think like we do .
EP
Can you explain to me why people in biz class deserve more "respect" than those that could only afford steerage? You are not experienced traveler. Just simply a self entitled bore.
No goose for you.
The unfortunate part is parents not caring about anybody else beyond their family unit (and even in the family unit, why would you want that mayhem??).
Let's not lose sight of the problem which is people who don't care about the effect they have on people around them.
Whether that's screaming kids, watching videos without headphones, using the speaker on their phone, getting into fights or whatever at the root is the same problem. A lot of people are very selfish. It's all about their right to do whatever they want not only on airplanes but everywhere.
Being considerate of...
Let's not lose sight of the problem which is people who don't care about the effect they have on people around them.
Whether that's screaming kids, watching videos without headphones, using the speaker on their phone, getting into fights or whatever at the root is the same problem. A lot of people are very selfish. It's all about their right to do whatever they want not only on airplanes but everywhere.
Being considerate of others used to be a central part of a child's education because it was a core principle belief of the adults around them. No more. People take prides in annoying others (big booming bass cars) because they believe that's what rich powerful people do and they want imagine themselves to be like them.
Hmm, it is utterly non-sense to even suggest flying private. Neither one reader mentioned nor I experienced more than a couple of ill-behaved minors, regardless of their ages, on any flight. To even suggest that those two families take precedent over all other flying families on the flight is hopelessly depressing. No airlines will consider such poor taste joke. The problem rests on the parents and then the airlines. More than half adult parents who...
Hmm, it is utterly non-sense to even suggest flying private. Neither one reader mentioned nor I experienced more than a couple of ill-behaved minors, regardless of their ages, on any flight. To even suggest that those two families take precedent over all other flying families on the flight is hopelessly depressing. No airlines will consider such poor taste joke. The problem rests on the parents and then the airlines. More than half adult parents who I crossed path with in my neck of the wood should never have kids, not even one. It matters not if a parent tries hard to calm down the kid. Both the kid and parents are not mature to fly together. Other flyers pay big money for their seats on the flight in return for peace and comfort. Kids should not be allowed in premium seats because parents do not know when their kids will act out, especially in a confined space in the air in the long haul. If you do not provide guidance and discipline to your kid by age eight, you may as well throw in the towel.
A good crew would have stopped the kid before anyone had to ask. No kudos.
In this case, I would get up & tell the kids & parents they’re not at home & be considerate to others.
Singles like me should not have to suffer coz of breeders.
I was recently in a premium cabin flying from SIN to SYD. Three children under 3-years old were sat nearby. One of the children screamed approximately 90% of the flight. Even while using high-quality ear plugs, and over-ear active noise cancellation headphones, the sound was unavoidable. It is different if the parent(s) attempt to soothe the child, but that was not the case here. After disembarkation into the relatively quiet terminal, it dawned on me...
I was recently in a premium cabin flying from SIN to SYD. Three children under 3-years old were sat nearby. One of the children screamed approximately 90% of the flight. Even while using high-quality ear plugs, and over-ear active noise cancellation headphones, the sound was unavoidable. It is different if the parent(s) attempt to soothe the child, but that was not the case here. After disembarkation into the relatively quiet terminal, it dawned on me that my nerves had become incredibly tense over the course of the flight. I genuinely did not feel relaxed again until the following morning. Why did I pay a premium for such a travel experience?
same here, three across in J on SQ and the crew didn't do anything and the mother was more interested in her IG feed whilst hearing a podcast.
People keep mistaken active noise cancelation with what it actually cancels.
CJ, you have my sympathies …. it sounds like the sort of experience one would have to endure with my grandson’s wife and monsters.
Thank you, Ben, for starting a conversation that settled this issue once and for all in the comments! I’m glad this will never come up again.
Now, can you please do the same regarding that woman who is always flipping her long hair over the back of her seat, blocking the video or computer screen of the passenger behind her? Many thanks!
Why are small children allowed in business??????
It ruins the experience for everyone. It is simply not fair. People are paying thousands of dollars for some peace and quiet and it genuinely ruins every part of the experience (the bed, the extra space, etc).
At a minimum the last (or first) row should be designated for babies/small kids so other people can plan accordingly.
For what it's worth, I would fly any airline...
Why are small children allowed in business??????
It ruins the experience for everyone. It is simply not fair. People are paying thousands of dollars for some peace and quiet and it genuinely ruins every part of the experience (the bed, the extra space, etc).
At a minimum the last (or first) row should be designated for babies/small kids so other people can plan accordingly.
For what it's worth, I would fly any airline (transatlantic) which banned small kids in business. A no brainer. Would even connect somewhere for the privilege
The Economist has advocated for this for years.
Or add a children's section in cases where the business class is split in two and separated by a galley/lavatories. Easy win for everyone.
Put them at the back where they used to put the smokers. It wouldn’t be difficult to rearrange bulkheads so the bassinet seats were as far from other pax as possible.
Why is it unfair? The higher ticket price in F and B isn't in exchange for the right to exclude other paying customers you'd rather be seated near.
Well behaved children have the same right to fly in premium as you do.
but there's no guarantee they will be well behaved. If we could kick them out if they misbehave I'd be fine with them buying seats. But we can't. Not fair.
Why wouldn’t they. If the parents pay for the privilege (as presumably you do) the. it’s their right. You are an idiot.
Why are badly behaved adults allowed in business class??? It ruins the experience for everyone. It’s simply not fair to those who pay thousands of dollars for more space and edible food to have the experienced ruined by an overentitled jerk. A$$holes should be assigned seats in the back of the plane. I’d go out of my way to fly an airline that didn’t allow badly behaved pricks into business class.
I am a parent. Kuddos to you for speaking up. It's one thing when it's babies who aren't redirectable, consolable, or rational. This sounds like an older childer who can be reasoned with it. It's really about the effort (or lack thereof) made by parents that warrants intervention.
We recently flew AF from CDG to LAX - business class. Had a screaming 3 year old in diapers - I only mentioned this as the mother changed the diaper and threw the dirty diaper over the seat and it landed on the passenger in the row behind. NO apology. The crew tried to make amends by offering free drinks and adding miles to our Flying Blue account - but nothing made up for the...
We recently flew AF from CDG to LAX - business class. Had a screaming 3 year old in diapers - I only mentioned this as the mother changed the diaper and threw the dirty diaper over the seat and it landed on the passenger in the row behind. NO apology. The crew tried to make amends by offering free drinks and adding miles to our Flying Blue account - but nothing made up for the screaming misbehaving child for an 11 hour flight. The parents had not brought anything for the child to do, and both looked to be sleeping while the child ran up and down the aisles. I think the above comment is right - this situation is reflective of a larger societal issue of not respecting others.
Despite all this any flight I've been on with a screaming kid has still been less uncomfortable than many flights with misbehaving adults.
I must say…that is appalling. I was a huge believer that in a public space…ie Church, restaurant etc…you need to take your child out…obviously not an option at 35,000 feet.
Shame on those parents…If they can’t do it, get a nanny and put the kids in coach…
My family lives in the UK and we started transatlantic travels when they were small…that said, I always book an 8-9pm flight so they would be...
I must say…that is appalling. I was a huge believer that in a public space…ie Church, restaurant etc…you need to take your child out…obviously not an option at 35,000 feet.
Shame on those parents…If they can’t do it, get a nanny and put the kids in coach…
My family lives in the UK and we started transatlantic travels when they were small…that said, I always book an 8-9pm flight so they would be exhausted and fall asleep…and it really always worked….
I had a guy (in Business Class on BA) who looked at me with my two boys and rang the call button to request another seat. The flight attendant explained that the flight was full…so he sat where he was booked…but you know, I always got compliments on how well-behaved my boys were…But it’s a science…you fly based on their schedule…so I gave up day flights during that period…Good luck. My heart goes out to parents who ARE trying and have a screaming child….that’s super hard!
Hey ... how condescending ... Don't send the brats to us poor, unwashed slobs in 'roach' where it's about as bad as it gets ... My heart bleeds for those folks 'stuck' in premium classes !!
Sounds like the caste system would be your cuppa tea !
... LOL...
"If they can’t do it, get a nanny and put the kids in coach…"
For what it's worth, it doesn't become ok for kids to be nuts just because they're in economy.
Three quarters of a century ago some of us children became long distance air travellers. No iPhones, no iPads, no AirPods, no MacBooks, no Apple Vision Pro and IFE hadn’t been invented. Even the aircraft had big whirligig’s beating at the air in front of the wings. Flights were long and slow with numerous stops.
Our parents were our entertainment, along with colouring books, reading books and comics. We talked, they taught us about everything...
Three quarters of a century ago some of us children became long distance air travellers. No iPhones, no iPads, no AirPods, no MacBooks, no Apple Vision Pro and IFE hadn’t been invented. Even the aircraft had big whirligig’s beating at the air in front of the wings. Flights were long and slow with numerous stops.
Our parents were our entertainment, along with colouring books, reading books and comics. We talked, they taught us about everything which was happening around us. They read to us and gave us their time and their attention. We didn’t have any need for ‘meltdowns’.
We treated our own world travelling children in the same way without incident. They in turn carried forth the lessons learned to our grandchildren too.
Two of my great grandchildren are real monsters! The products of my grandson’s wife. She is a social media dependent mother, who insists upon reinventing the wheel according the latest parenting fad. Our grandson is getting to the point where he will be taking separate flights soon (like the rest of us), due to his wife’s unwillingness to allow the monsters to be disciplined. We pity the other passengers adjacent to her and the brood.
Doesn't work with infants obviously but preparing for a trip in recognition that a flight is a not only a public space but a very tightly packed one that neither you nor others can leave is a core responsibility of every parent.
Your point that when traveling with kids the adults need to have a plan, not only to keep the kids happily occupied but for when things go south. In any public place, especially...
Doesn't work with infants obviously but preparing for a trip in recognition that a flight is a not only a public space but a very tightly packed one that neither you nor others can leave is a core responsibility of every parent.
Your point that when traveling with kids the adults need to have a plan, not only to keep the kids happily occupied but for when things go south. In any public place, especially on an airplane the parent's primary responsibility is take responsibility for their kids.
There is not only the bathroom, but as the FA noted in their post if there are extra seats the back of the airplane options exist to dampen the noise of an unhappy child until they calm down.
Great idea... throw both parent & brat in a lav and 'lock 'em up' until behavior improves...Also if it reverts upon release, simply 'rinse n' repeat' !! ..lol
When an infant loses it whether on an airplane or somewhere else they aren't being a brat. Taking them into the bathroom isn't a punishment for bad behavior but a thoughtful decision to reduce the impact on other passengers.
I pity her for marrying in to a family that feels OK bashing her on the Internet.
Oh c’mon, you know she’s posting endlessly about her hateful in-laws. Sounds like fair payback.
I wonder how long you would be able to suffer the unruly monsters and their mother on a flight, Jerry?
Would you be “Bashing her on the internet” too? I guess so, most respectable and responsible people would, yes?
The contrast between an extended family who care for their children and the environment in which they find themselves. The responsibility they feel towards their fellow passengers, etc, compared to the only one family...
I wonder how long you would be able to suffer the unruly monsters and their mother on a flight, Jerry?
Would you be “Bashing her on the internet” too? I guess so, most respectable and responsible people would, yes?
The contrast between an extended family who care for their children and the environment in which they find themselves. The responsibility they feel towards their fellow passengers, etc, compared to the only one family member who doesn’t, is marked and should no be ridiculed.
One feels that perhaps you Jerry, have chosen to ‘shoot’ the messenger “On the internet”. That is, rather than acknowledge which children you would like in your F/J cabin, yes?
I am sure that Ben, will thank you for your click, Jerry. Also, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to exercise my brain cell. Conversing with the woke proletariat is always a pleasure …. :-)
We've began flying with our first born when he was less than a year old. First flight, no problem. Second flight he lost it so my wife scooped him up and made for the bathroom.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this option. Not only does the bathroom do a pretty good job of attenuating the noise for as long as it lasts but being in a private space can help tremendously to calm a an upset infant/child down.
It’s always appropriate to complain. Particularly when the parents show up and start ordering around flight attendants like it’s their responsibility to manage the ill-behaved spawn. Have fewer kids, raise them properly, and fly private if you want to act like you own the place.
Indeed, always complain, to the crew, short of forced sterilization ! ... lol
Always. You are welcome. Don’t drag em on flights if they feel tortured by pressure and other issues.
I give a lot of leeway to parents who are actively trying to calm a baby down. For parents who are doing nothing, I'd absolutely complain to a flight attendant after a few minutes. Absolutely not ok. Your responsibility as a parent doesn't go away once you board an airplane.
I give parents a lot of grace while traveling and I'm generally unbothered by other passengers, but I was on a transatlantic flight last summer in an aisle seat in J, and across the aisle from me in one of the center seats was a kid about 7-8 years old who was completely out of control. Climbing on seats, kicking his legs into the aisle and getting into my personal space to try to watch...
I give parents a lot of grace while traveling and I'm generally unbothered by other passengers, but I was on a transatlantic flight last summer in an aisle seat in J, and across the aisle from me in one of the center seats was a kid about 7-8 years old who was completely out of control. Climbing on seats, kicking his legs into the aisle and getting into my personal space to try to watch my TV, sitting in my seat when I came back from the lav and asking me if i was going to eat my food. His father was in the center seat on the other side and would barely intervene. The flight attendant was great though—she gave the dad a piece of her mind and sent me some extra drinks and desserts. Just an awful kid though.
Runs both ways. I normally observe to see if the parents are doing all they can. Some are clearly embarrassed and frazzled. No point adding to it because nothing more will work unless someone creative steps up. Then there are those I questioned why they didn't use birth control because they clearly don't care. I had to tell a mother off whose child didn't want his snacks anymore and the mom just swept it off...
Runs both ways. I normally observe to see if the parents are doing all they can. Some are clearly embarrassed and frazzled. No point adding to it because nothing more will work unless someone creative steps up. Then there are those I questioned why they didn't use birth control because they clearly don't care. I had to tell a mother off whose child didn't want his snacks anymore and the mom just swept it off the kid's tray onto the aisle like that's what you're supposed to do. I have a friend who thought it would be fun to take her 18 month old daughter on a trip to France like the child would appreciate the art and architecture. I explained in long agonizing detail how awful that would be for them And the issues that can occur on a plane annoying everyone. She unfortunately lived in a fantasy world and refused to believe that she couldn't control her child in a plane. Sadly, I was right and she was very embarrassed. I told her you deserved it and I told you so, I told you so. She asked why I was being mean. I said you made the trip that much worse for dozens of people even though I had warned you. They may not have said anything to you but I feel like I need to tell you off for their sake because this has happened to me. That was 2 decades ago. It took her that long to grow up. We're still good friends because she appreciates my bluntness which nobody else would do so.
"transatlantic aisle seat in J" (on a plane that also has center seats) - which Lufthansa Group airline was it? :)
We worked overseas for the 10 odd years our kids were younger and flew economy at the time. It took a long time before our youngest was diagnosed with petit mal epilepsy and other related issues on the autism scale. Many times we encountered problems with his behaviour but, between us, would work with him and try to keep everything within reasonable bounds. The increased attention and extra effort worked.
When we see parents...
We worked overseas for the 10 odd years our kids were younger and flew economy at the time. It took a long time before our youngest was diagnosed with petit mal epilepsy and other related issues on the autism scale. Many times we encountered problems with his behaviour but, between us, would work with him and try to keep everything within reasonable bounds. The increased attention and extra effort worked.
When we see parents that totally ignore their children most of their misbehaving (screaming at the top of their lungs) is purely ATTENTION GETTING. The parents usually have an amah to look after the kids so just ignore them while the amah is sitting at the back of the plane.
These parents should be dealt with by the crew within the first hour or less if the lack pf parenting is obvious. Perhaps airlines should put customers with these problems on a list so that they can be identified and warned that they would risk no-fly if they didn't improve or perhaps relegation to the depths of row 60 on their future flights.
Unfortunately there are few airlines that will subject their most profitable clients to pressure to do something about their brats.
We spent a month recently in a resort with a "quiet" pool where mobs of Asian families around "New Year" would invade with screaming brats for hours at a time. Thank God they were only there for about a week.
For as long as parents are doing the bare minimum or, worse, totally ignoring the situation, it is more than fair to complain without having to endure 5 hours of endless screaming.
Cue the forthcoming discriminatory/racist lawsuit filed against AF for the crew's egregious, racist and disrespectful behavior !
When I first read the post, I thought that maybe the kid had some sort of 'legitimate' medical, mental or behavioral challenge for which I'd be totally sympathetic & supportive. But, then it'd be incumbent on the parents to communicate this with at least the crew, if not some of the other pax. But it sounds like...
Cue the forthcoming discriminatory/racist lawsuit filed against AF for the crew's egregious, racist and disrespectful behavior !
When I first read the post, I thought that maybe the kid had some sort of 'legitimate' medical, mental or behavioral challenge for which I'd be totally sympathetic & supportive. But, then it'd be incumbent on the parents to communicate this with at least the crew, if not some of the other pax. But it sounds like they could hardly give a 'F' for either personal or 'cultural' reasons.. In such cases an official 'advisory' should be given to the offending parents, reminding them of basic parenting responsibilities...
Kudos to the AF crew. Sad that it had to come to that for the so-called parents to react ...
I'd wager this would be an exception to crew behavior...
Intensity of the screams is always inversely proportional to the attention being paid when bad parenting is involved.
If you are paying for a premium seat on a long haul flight I would complain when it started and keep on complaining. I have no patience with anyone disrupting my flight if Im trying to work or sleep.
A little girl was behind me one time kicking my seat and screaming and I stood over and told her that if she didnt stop I was going to tell Jesus to make her mommy and daddy dead. It worked.
"A little girl was behind me one time kicking my seat and screaming and I stood over and told her that if she didnt stop I was going to tell Jesus to make her mommy and daddy dead. It worked."
One can only admire your resourcefulness. We'll never know if was true (the Jesus part, I mean), but I hope is was.
Or a simple 'fatwa' should do the trick ! ... lol
Not everyone believes in Jesus.
Might as well say you will tell Santa Claus to give mommy some eggplants and daddy some Rudolph. Or should it be Rudolph for mommy and eggplant for daddy.
You sound fun to be around.
The entire planet knows what the terrible two’s are, even people who don’t have children. Why anyone in their right mind chooses to get on a plane with a child between 2 and 4 is beyond my comprehension. It’s stressful for everyone and usually miserable. Go drive somewhere and keep it to yourself. It’s 2 years out of your life. I have found in cases where this has happened and the parents are out to lunch, a long stern glare from a stranger usually does the trick!
Yep. Similar experience here. At the end telling the parent, who was busy watching a movie, to mind the child was pointless. Ear plugs or head phones is the most immediate and effective answer.
I think you can always complain but it's probably an exercise in futility when it comes to screaming or crying. Usually the parents are doing all they can and it sucks the most for them.
What really annoys me is when kids are running around the plane, climbing on seats and throwing things. I was just on a flight where a kid was literally standing on a headrest and hitting the overhead with the Dad...
I think you can always complain but it's probably an exercise in futility when it comes to screaming or crying. Usually the parents are doing all they can and it sucks the most for them.
What really annoys me is when kids are running around the plane, climbing on seats and throwing things. I was just on a flight where a kid was literally standing on a headrest and hitting the overhead with the Dad just sitting there letting the kid climb on his head. It looked dangerous. I had a stuffy thrown at me on another flight and that kid also ran into the cockpit at one point. I've also seen kids running in and out of first class because a parent was up there while they were in coach.
Crying is one thing, but running around and creating havoc really is not ok.
I say let the brats run wild and hope they run into something that will surely teach them a lesson as their boorish parents are too irresponsible & inconsiderate to do what common decency requires....
Ah, at what point is it appropriate to complain about the behavior of Russians? When they stop violating international law and invading other countries. Trump keeps giving Putin a free pass. No wonder these parents are so nonchalant about it.
Venezuela was asking the same question too.
whatever does this remotely have to do with the price of eggs at Publix ? asking for a friend.....
Blame egg prices on the Easter bunny.
Are you by chance retarded, David?
Most of us who fly have a story about a totally disinterested Middle Eastern man, his wife and their large brood of screaming kids climbing over the seats.
More than one story, most likely.
Honestly besides visiting family, I am not sure why people would want to travel overseas with young kids. They won't remember almost all of it, it seems like more work then reward and you would want to take them back when they are older so they could appreciate it.
No judgement and it is certainly your right, but meh would rather drive or fly somewhere within 2 hours with young kids.
Exactly!
Selfish parents wanted to travel but also very attached to their kids and refuse to separate and leave them with someone else.
Maybe kids are also good and cute Instagram props.
It's not for their kids. It's for themselves.
The want to have the cake and eat it.
100% this. And it's not "unreasonable" to be annoyed by terrible kids and they're terrible parents. They aren't mutually exclusive. And only parents with poorly behaved kids ever tout the whole "Give them some grace, they're just children" nonsense. If your kids can't handle travel yet - or won't appreciate it anyway, then just don't travel. It's part of the (quickly eroding) social contract of civility. We didn't fly for 3+ years because we didn't...
100% this. And it's not "unreasonable" to be annoyed by terrible kids and they're terrible parents. They aren't mutually exclusive. And only parents with poorly behaved kids ever tout the whole "Give them some grace, they're just children" nonsense. If your kids can't handle travel yet - or won't appreciate it anyway, then just don't travel. It's part of the (quickly eroding) social contract of civility. We didn't fly for 3+ years because we didn't want to be the asshole parents. Unless it's LITERALLY an emergency, then don't bring you poorly behaved or unaccustomed-to-ear-popping/pressure children on an enclosed aluminum tube hurtling through the sky. Just don't.
Bless You !
Why? Because the parent (sometimes selfishly) want to travel and it’s often easier to drag your kids along than find someone willing to look after four (possibly problematic) children for a few weeks.
To Ben’s point … it takes very little effort to know when a child is noisy despite parental efforts or because parents have no interest. I will not complain in the first case - we have all been there.
So you're telling me that my usual approach is to tell the parents that they are bad parents and that their children and they should ride in the hold with the other animals isn't the right approach? Who knew? It certainly feels good....
Kids get away with things, especially from women. I just wish that I was sometimes given some of the kindness and sympathy children are shown.
Aw, you're an incel, Hank Tarn, and you have no shame about it. Stay proud.
Omg funny you post about this. I had the same issue last night. Kid was probably 2-3 years old. Flying business on A321. I was seating next to the dad. The mom on the asile and the kid on the window with the mom. He was screaming and just going wild. Meanwhile both mom and dad could care less and were just invested on their phones. At one point I just had to tell them....
Omg funny you post about this. I had the same issue last night. Kid was probably 2-3 years old. Flying business on A321. I was seating next to the dad. The mom on the asile and the kid on the window with the mom. He was screaming and just going wild. Meanwhile both mom and dad could care less and were just invested on their phones. At one point I just had to tell them. You guys should be doing something about it instead of being on your phones. Not sure he he understood or what or could not give a shit. Cause they still didn’t do anything. It was frustrating.
Our only Air France biz class LAX-CDG) was ruined by a kid screaming (maybe 3 or 4?) so much that I thought he was dying. The mother was trying to quiet him, but nothing helped.
As I said in a comment above, at the age of three or four screaming is unacceptable, and should be rewarded with a loud, hard smack on the bottom given with a warning to stop it immediately.
It's funny that no other pax complained about this screaming girl
I flew a Delta flight and the woman next to me had an infant who screamed the entire 3 hour flight. She was doing all in her power to comfort the infant to no avail. A man started to video her. That annoyed me. Just wrong. I offered to hold baby but mom was beside herself. I felt badly for the mom
I also was on an Emirates first class flight where a Russian...
I flew a Delta flight and the woman next to me had an infant who screamed the entire 3 hour flight. She was doing all in her power to comfort the infant to no avail. A man started to video her. That annoyed me. Just wrong. I offered to hold baby but mom was beside herself. I felt badly for the mom
I also was on an Emirates first class flight where a Russian woman with sunglasses and bleached blond hair literally screamed into a phone call and with her bf sitting in her pod. Crew did nothing
Baby is what AirPod on silent is for. I just got off an Air France business and … same thing. Put my AirPods on and slept
Kids really can’t be controlled at times. Adults can be. Emirates dropped the ball
"...literally screamed into a phone call and with her bf sitting in her pod."
Where in the Emirates first class pod was her boyfriend sitting? Just curious.
As a parent of a three year old, I feel the pain. However, I would say in my view the line is when the parents are not bothered or trying to do their best to control the situation.
We were on a recent flight where our three year old got a melt down due to over stimulation and that also in business. The meltdown lasted half an hour but during that whole half an hour...
As a parent of a three year old, I feel the pain. However, I would say in my view the line is when the parents are not bothered or trying to do their best to control the situation.
We were on a recent flight where our three year old got a melt down due to over stimulation and that also in business. The meltdown lasted half an hour but during that whole half an hour both my wife and I, including some co passengers and crew tried their best to calm her down. However, the combination of a long flight combined with a 5 hr delay had just let to the situation becoming this volatile,
Apart from one passenger, we didnt get any angry stares. However, even though as a parent you get the context of that meltdown we felt bad that we were an inconvenience to that one passenger.
That being said, we have taken alot of trips with our toddler and none of them have been perfect. Yet, I am surprised at how accommodating and children loving majority of the co passengers are. May be we have been lucky.
What do you think about taking the child to the bathroom? Do you think that would have been a good idea?
I'm not chastising you. I'm curious what you think about this.
We did, bathroom, galley, what not. When a flight is delayed 5 hrs, no fault of the child or parents, things can really spiral out of control with young minds. Getting over stimulated is easy for developing minds. We even gave her some benadryl to make her sleep. But drugging your kid should not be seen as OK. However, what I am just highlighting is that some parents do try their best and are truly...
We did, bathroom, galley, what not. When a flight is delayed 5 hrs, no fault of the child or parents, things can really spiral out of control with young minds. Getting over stimulated is easy for developing minds. We even gave her some benadryl to make her sleep. But drugging your kid should not be seen as OK. However, what I am just highlighting is that some parents do try their best and are truly considerate of other passengers as well. And as I also said I have been surprised on how many co passengers have actually stepped in to help out regardless of the horror stories you hear about crying babies and planes. Its kudos to 99% of those passengers out there who are really helpful or accommodating in such situations.
It's always appropriate to complain. Then it's up to the FA to do what they can. Screaming in public for long periods of time is not acceptable behavior for a child. And shame on parents who think it is. I don't know what's happening to society when people think they can do anything they want without regard to the people around them.
Always appropriate when it is clear it is because of parent behavior (eg not bringing headphones for their children, feeding them sugar).
Very common amongst “Israeli” parents who always act entitled like the entire cabin was promised to them 3000 years ago.
No need to drag anti-semitism into this conversation. Crawl back under your rock you troglodyte.
Exactly, thankfully irresponsible, selfish & neglectful parents come in all stripes !
..lol
Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism, JSNYC.
If only they could be as calm and civilized as a no kings or antifa protest
Like most things in life - it's fine when the situation is reasonable and in moderation. He's a little kid, he's gonna flip out here and there, what are you gonna do. As long as the parent is quick to react and make every effort to calm him down with clear concern for those around them - I have zero problems with hearing a kid cry. But when it's one of those where the kid...
Like most things in life - it's fine when the situation is reasonable and in moderation. He's a little kid, he's gonna flip out here and there, what are you gonna do. As long as the parent is quick to react and make every effort to calm him down with clear concern for those around them - I have zero problems with hearing a kid cry. But when it's one of those where the kid is just going at it and the parent does nothing and gives zero fs about others - I'd ban the parent from flying for life, if I were a dictator. Fine him $200K for every full minute of the kid's cry too.
As a cabin crew member, I go out of my way to help parents who are trying to get a child to quiet down. Once coming back from Hawaii we had parents with a sick toddler who was just feeling awful. We gave mom and kiddo a row in the very back to stretch out, and we gave away a lot of free alcohol. During the final cart, the Dad had his credit card in...
As a cabin crew member, I go out of my way to help parents who are trying to get a child to quiet down. Once coming back from Hawaii we had parents with a sick toddler who was just feeling awful. We gave mom and kiddo a row in the very back to stretch out, and we gave away a lot of free alcohol. During the final cart, the Dad had his credit card in hand and said “I need two bourbons, as it is the only way I’m going to make it through the rest of this.” My answer to him was “Sir, no one after the exit row has paid for a drink and you certainly are not. We all see you all are doing what you can, and sometimes a sick toddler is just a sick toddler.”
On the other hand, a parent who is doing nothing, or who gets upset when the crew reminds them that the child’s screen requires headphones, gets very little help and a lot of requests to do something. Meanwhile the passengers nearby get a lot of positive attention.
As crew we know when parents are parenting, and when they are not. We also figure out if we have a special needs kid who may be stimming or especially challenging for guardians, and we go out of our way to help. Sometimes there is really nothing that can be done, and most people understand that.
Former F/A myself and God bless you ! handled it beautifully. There is a BIG dif between a sick kiddo and a screaming tyrant. It's so funny... I just don't recall the screaming on flights prior to the late '80s Hmmm
Bravo to you, J.R. Though some may argue it is hardly the airline’s responsibility to dole out a gratis drink or two, a gesture like that goes a long way both in calming tempers on board and perception after the fact.
The moment one makes a sound in business class they should be kicked off the plane.
Never appropriate to complain.
If you can hear the screaming, FAs can, too.
If the FAs were able to do something, they would do so, without your complaint.
To borrow business jargon, your complaint doesn't drive incremental action.
Totally disagree with this. Many FA's will be passive until they get a complaint.
Well, if you read the article, you would see that the rubbish you have written is completely incorrect....
I disagree with Greenberg Traurig .
WE need to complain to FAs.
FAs hear the screaming but do not do anything for fear of being roasted by passengers who may say they are being discriminated against for some reason. I heard a passenger tell a FA not to ''pick'' on his wife because she was *******, in fact the FA asked the lady to control 2 children jumping up and down on their...
I disagree with Greenberg Traurig .
WE need to complain to FAs.
FAs hear the screaming but do not do anything for fear of being roasted by passengers who may say they are being discriminated against for some reason. I heard a passenger tell a FA not to ''pick'' on his wife because she was *******, in fact the FA asked the lady to control 2 children jumping up and down on their seats . There are undisciplined people travelling now and FAs need to step up and maintain order so the majority are not inconvenienced by a minority . More airline bans on difficult passengers will soon make those understand that rules and etiquette on airlines has to be maintained .
As a parent who has flown business with my own babies/toddlers/children, sometimes I wish I could care that little because it is WORK to keep kids comfortable and entertained on a long flight! I think our hardest flight was an AF business flight with our 18 month old
I would give it 30 minutes tops, then approach the crew
Bonjour! Always fun to catch a live post, remembering the La Premiere debut last year. Yes, this sounds awful, and the indignation you're experiencing reminds me of taking the Reading Bus to London where some brats kept pushing the stop bell every few seconds, despite the fact that nobody needed to depart. It made the crew angry and the passengers too.
It is appropriate every time. I do not want to hear em.
Did she quiet down after the crew intervention?
If so, then on the parents.
If not, then is there a disorder or health issue in play? Odd to have a 4+ year old screaming.
@ Greg -- Yep, eventually she did indeed...