The Lansing State Journal has the story of an incident that occurred last week, where a person tried to get on a commercial flight just shortly after testing positive for COVID-19.
The person had been visiting family in the area and then tested positive for the virus, but told health department officials of plans to return home. They explained to the patient the risks of this (including the risk to others).
It became clear to officials that the person was planning on disobeying the orders and still flying home. Health department officials stay in contact with positive patients so that they can make sure they’re obeying orders, and it was clear this person wasn’t doing so.
The Ingham County Health Department notified the Capital Region International Airport of the situation. The airport was able to work with airlines to determine that the patient had in fact booked a flight. A cease-and-desist order was even issued for the passenger (if the person wouldn’t comply, then health officers could petition courts for a judicial order).
Airport staff were able to locate the passenger before the security checkpoint, and the subject voluntarily left at that point.
As Ingham County Health Officer Linda Vail described the situation:
“We can’t have people hopping on planes that are known positive with COVID-19. We just can’t. It was like, ‘No you can’t.’”
I’m happy they found the passenger before s/he was able to travel. But seriously, how selfish (or dumb/ignorant) do you have to try to board a plane just shortly after testing positive for coronavirus?
The level of disregard this shows towards others is downright frightening. Obviously there are some people who fly with COVID-19 without knowing it, but to do so intentionally shows an indescribable amount of disregard for others.
Frankly I feel like there should be punishment for someone who does this…
@Wade - If your miserable life was to end, there would be that much more oxygen available for the rest of us to breathe -- let's all keep a good thought!
It can't be surprising, when we have a President that models TOTAL lack of concern for others in 100% of his words and deeds, that ordinary citizens are going to feel empowered to do the same.
To cite the latest example, trump is trying DESPERATELY to find a State that will guarantee him the massive ego stroke of a live, in-person Republican Convention with upwards of 50,000 attendees. He is literally willing to put the...
It can't be surprising, when we have a President that models TOTAL lack of concern for others in 100% of his words and deeds, that ordinary citizens are going to feel empowered to do the same.
To cite the latest example, trump is trying DESPERATELY to find a State that will guarantee him the massive ego stroke of a live, in-person Republican Convention with upwards of 50,000 attendees. He is literally willing to put the lives of his most ardent supporters at risks to satiate his unlimited appetite for attention and adulation.
One person looking to fly with COVID-19 is barely worth mentioning in such a context.
This is why I stay home. It is not the people with normal common sense that are the problem. It is a complete moron like this that spreads the disease to an untold number of others. It isn't surprising they got it to begin with...stupid is as stupid does. But until we get a vaccine there is simply no way you can be safe going out no matter how careful you are or the people...
This is why I stay home. It is not the people with normal common sense that are the problem. It is a complete moron like this that spreads the disease to an untold number of others. It isn't surprising they got it to begin with...stupid is as stupid does. But until we get a vaccine there is simply no way you can be safe going out no matter how careful you are or the people you associate with are because there is always the one moron who comes up and wants to "interact" with you or does so through commonly touched objects.
This person should have been arrested.
@UA-NYC
Xenophobe?!? Don’t you mean “the Mt. Rushmore of douche-bags”?
Thanks for finally stepping in! You’ve just been played like a fiddle.
G’day!
@Wade - your "freedom of speech" doesn't extend to private web sites should the owners deem you a racist xenophobe (which you clearly have marked yourself as).
Why don't you do us all a favor and go back to 4Chan or Breitbart or wherever.
@Tiffany/Ben – we have the poster “Wade” who is celebrating the Holocaust back here oops!
@Jay
Are you for real with your nonsensical numbers? You’re not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. More than 50,000,000 people died from Spanish Flu in the early 1900s — not even 400,000 people have died from COVID-19 in 2020. There’s no comparison. The global population is significantly higher and the total deaths are substantially lower for COVID-19. Also, the idea that a person who celebrates the unification against Nazis might also be a...
@Jay
Are you for real with your nonsensical numbers? You’re not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. More than 50,000,000 people died from Spanish Flu in the early 1900s — not even 400,000 people have died from COVID-19 in 2020. There’s no comparison. The global population is significantly higher and the total deaths are substantially lower for COVID-19. Also, the idea that a person who celebrates the unification against Nazis might also be a neo-Nazi is ludicrous. Unless, you’re really just concurring with all my positions in an exceptionally obtuse way.
@UA-NYC
Thanks for calling in the freedom of speech police! I celebrate the fact that the holocaust — as atrocious as it seemed at the time — ultimately led to a global unification that saved the lives of nearly 100 million more innocent people over the decades that followed. Can you prove otherwise?
It would be wonderful if society were brave enough to do the same thing again with COVID-19.
"Republic party members think that freedom means the ability to infect other people.
Conservatism is a sickness and a mental health issue."
No. It means that conservatives believe in independent liberty, in our own ability to make personal choices. A conservative who believes in the freedoms enshrined within the Constitution would likely say that if someone wants to go out, that they should have that right - because guess what, they do. However, even Locke...
"Republic party members think that freedom means the ability to infect other people.
Conservatism is a sickness and a mental health issue."
No. It means that conservatives believe in independent liberty, in our own ability to make personal choices. A conservative who believes in the freedoms enshrined within the Constitution would likely say that if someone wants to go out, that they should have that right - because guess what, they do. However, even Locke would argue that as the government's first duty is protection, that the government was totally correct in stopping this idiot from boarding a plane and potentially infecting others. And indeed, I think every conservative that I know would have been totally against this person trying to board a flight.
You're stereotyping an entire group and you really shouldn't be. You are bringing politics into a story that didn't contain politics. Why?
"...freedom fetish..." I fail to see how freedom is a fetish. My ancestors fought in the American Revolution for the right to express oneself, to live in freedom. Viewing freedom as a fetish is the first step towards authoritarianism and jackbooted totalitarianism. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Hitler and Stalin would have agreed with your statement. That's great company that you're keeping. Not...
@Tiffany/Ben - you have a poster "Wade" who is celebrating the Holocaust & basically advocating for eugenics in his posts...
@Wade
"If it hadn’t been for the egregiousness of and brave sacrifices made during the holocaust, the world would never had united against the Nazis, ..."
Should have seen this before talking to you - make no mistake, I have no business talking to a neo-Nazi.
@Wade
(From Nay - that nickname was a typo)
"Only 13% resulting in death" (although it seems more like 6%), "less than 0.005% (=5 per 100,000 people) of the world’s population has died thus far from COVID-19"
Let's see how that compares to other diseases.
Seasonal flu - 0.1%
"Spanish flu" (the pandemic one century ago - way less advanced medical facilities and in middle of World War I) - 2%
SARS...
@Wade
(From Nay - that nickname was a typo)
"Only 13% resulting in death" (although it seems more like 6%), "less than 0.005% (=5 per 100,000 people) of the world’s population has died thus far from COVID-19"
Let's see how that compares to other diseases.
Seasonal flu - 0.1%
"Spanish flu" (the pandemic one century ago - way less advanced medical facilities and in middle of World War I) - 2%
SARS (2003) - 15%
H1N1 flu (2009) - 0.02 % (yes. 2/100 percent. no typo there)
So it is "only" three (or six, according to your figure) times deadlier than Spanish flu (even with a century worth of medical advancements), three hundred (or six hundred) times deadlier than common flu, and fifteen hundred (or three thousand) times deadlier than H1N1 flu...I see. It is slightly less deadly than SARS - which fell people so quickly that the people usually had no chance to infect others, unlike COVID we're seeing.
I actually hear that many young, healthy Spanish/Italians/etc., many of them nurses, doctors, athletes, and other jobs that requires healthy bodies, died of COVID but let's leave that to Italians/Spanish people who know more of it...
And I'm not trying to check data on Youtube - that's definitely not how you gather accurate data. But, if you are going to say that it is completely safe to get COVID, then you should definitely be willing to get COVID. What's wrong with you getting COVID if you say it is completely safe to get COVID? If you insist that it is completely safe to get covid then balk at idea of you getting COVID, it is pure hypocrisy.
Americans also have a fetish with punishment and shaming, especially over woulda coulda shoulda situations. No harm, no foul. Had they boarded and could be proven to be the source of an infection in someone else, IF it caused serious illness, then you have a case of possibly criminal recklessness, though lacking the intent to injure the proper remedy should be civil not criminal.
Everyone is so quick to judge, but I doubt he thought " I just want to travel and everyone be damned, let me spread COVID to everyone" or something of sorts. Maybe it was too scary for him, maybe it was too expensive, maybe he wanted to get back home to his immediate family... Not that he should have been allowed to fly, and yes he did not exibit good decision making, but why all...
Everyone is so quick to judge, but I doubt he thought " I just want to travel and everyone be damned, let me spread COVID to everyone" or something of sorts. Maybe it was too scary for him, maybe it was too expensive, maybe he wanted to get back home to his immediate family... Not that he should have been allowed to fly, and yes he did not exibit good decision making, but why all these harsh judgements? we do not know his story.
Just think, financially- the cost of ticket and additional lodging - may be prohibitive. He potentially was given a terminal diagnosis - yes, most people do well, but there are many who get very ill and don't make it. Maybe something is going on at home and he must be there...
Going forward, many things will need to be settled for the people with COVID+- they are still people and most are outstanding citizens whose rights need to be considered too.
- Will airlines and hotels change the ticket/ reservation for free without making us pay the difference between what we spent and last min prices? and when is it safe to travel after you have a +COVID test? will we start requiring these people to retest and only alow to fly when they have 2 negative values? if not decided, there will be too much risk to travel financially and otherwise - we all can show up at the airport and be found positive. What will happen next to us? noone is talking about it.
I’ve seen enough comments bashing Americans as a whole for this one idiot’s poor choice. To those of you can go F**K yourselves especially if you’re living in the USA.
So you plan to publicly shame someone...What are we, living hundreds of years ago? Just slap a scarlet C on him/her?
This person is really lucky he/she was caught before boarding...what if someone caught the virus on the flight and then died? Yes, selfish. But even more Yes, Stupid.
@Wade
So you think it is completely safe to get COVID unless you have other factor - so show it to the world. You go to somebody you know has COVID, rub the person's face, you smell your hand, then kiss the person. You post that on Youtube, and give updates weekly.
If you could, get ten volunteers to do that. If every single one survives for five years, you win. No excuses....
@Wade
So you think it is completely safe to get COVID unless you have other factor - so show it to the world. You go to somebody you know has COVID, rub the person's face, you smell your hand, then kiss the person. You post that on Youtube, and give updates weekly.
If you could, get ten volunteers to do that. If every single one survives for five years, you win. No excuses. Don't say you're fat, you got blah blah blah. If those "factors" are so common that even you have it, then your argument is just sophist idea. So just do it.
@A - So the test is false positive 10% of the time? Ignore a 90% good test at your peril - but not mine and ours.
I'm so glad I don't run into as many idiots in the real world as on the internet. Or maybe I do and they just don't show it off.
There are many assholes here. One person committed a bad act. They were caught. Others commit bad acts every day that end other's lives and don't give their vics even a chance. There are many who make excuses for those acts of killing. I don't generalize one person's act to a full political party of either side in this country. But many here do I guess. Their loss. They are disregarding 50% of the population...
There are many assholes here. One person committed a bad act. They were caught. Others commit bad acts every day that end other's lives and don't give their vics even a chance. There are many who make excuses for those acts of killing. I don't generalize one person's act to a full political party of either side in this country. But many here do I guess. Their loss. They are disregarding 50% of the population who could contribute to their worlds. Oh well. They post their irresponsible opinions, hiding behind false names - because they can comment without consequence. Blogs like this should REQUIRE full names, zip codes and phone numbers.
Wow. Speaking as a lawyer in Asia - flying after testing COVID positive is unimaginable. Breaking quarantine requirements, covid positive or not, is already punishable by jail terms. We have even deported some foreigners who broke 14-day quarantine requirements (for those entering Korea - regardless of nationality) Those confirmed COVID positive - are promptly put in hospitals...breaking out will definitely land you in jail.
This person definitely deserves name and shame at least -...
Wow. Speaking as a lawyer in Asia - flying after testing COVID positive is unimaginable. Breaking quarantine requirements, covid positive or not, is already punishable by jail terms. We have even deported some foreigners who broke 14-day quarantine requirements (for those entering Korea - regardless of nationality) Those confirmed COVID positive - are promptly put in hospitals...breaking out will definitely land you in jail.
This person definitely deserves name and shame at least - and some jail term, but wonder what USA law us like.
@wade
It is to "minimize" the number of people getting infected should somebody be found to have covid. Make no mistake - with or without masks, the person sitting right next to covid patient will probably get infected. Other passengers in the plane, might get away even if there is a covid patient in the plane if everybody wore masks. Without masks and a single covid patient in an airplane, we are probably getting...
@wade
It is to "minimize" the number of people getting infected should somebody be found to have covid. Make no mistake - with or without masks, the person sitting right next to covid patient will probably get infected. Other passengers in the plane, might get away even if there is a covid patient in the plane if everybody wore masks. Without masks and a single covid patient in an airplane, we are probably getting at least two-digit, maybe even three-digit number of patients from that plane.
Its called xenophobia, not racism or bigotry, as the US is not a race, we are a country.
Covid19 Flyers are VERY frequent, particularly on Qatar & BA ! the following website of the Hong Kong Govt confirms it in great detail!
https://www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/flights_trains_en.pdf
@Alan....applause...well worded...
@Surfer
Why does it even matter how many cases China has or has had? The truth is the country is returning to normal. The US had its first cases prior to Wuhan being sealed. How is it possible that Beijing and Shanghai were spared yet NYC became a nightmare. One country did a good job of controlling the virus - the other country failed miserably. As this is a travel site I'll propose one...
@Surfer
Why does it even matter how many cases China has or has had? The truth is the country is returning to normal. The US had its first cases prior to Wuhan being sealed. How is it possible that Beijing and Shanghai were spared yet NYC became a nightmare. One country did a good job of controlling the virus - the other country failed miserably. As this is a travel site I'll propose one question - if today you had to take a trip and you could only choose the US or China where would you go?
Anyone who thinks China only has 84,000 cases is living on Mars.
As someone who is in a household in which we are sometimes tested several times a week for COVID-19 due to our jobs, I find the gratuitous political hate extremely disturbing. The stereotypical judgmental assertions make no positive contribution to this, or any other forum. The details of the case are sketchy. People do have the right to not be reduced to medieval lepers if they are found to be positive for ANY contagious disease,...
As someone who is in a household in which we are sometimes tested several times a week for COVID-19 due to our jobs, I find the gratuitous political hate extremely disturbing. The stereotypical judgmental assertions make no positive contribution to this, or any other forum. The details of the case are sketchy. People do have the right to not be reduced to medieval lepers if they are found to be positive for ANY contagious disease, and some of the absurd mortality numbers quoted are simply not true. Test results have to be verified, and the best test has a number of both false positives and false negatives.
Violations of pandemic related restrictions have been proven to happen equally irrespective of political affiliation. One group tends to protest, while the other violates the restrictions without making it a political or personal freedom issue.
Everyone on the entire planet named Mitch disgusts me.
KeepingItReal says:
Republic party members think that freedom means the ability to infect other people.
Conservatism is a sickness and a mental health issue.
If democracy fails, it will be because of simple-minded/ignorant people like you making blanket generalizations and holding extreme positions who can't get over their own self-righteousness to consider alternative positions.
@ajay sounds like one of those Modi and Trump supporting individuals. They are by definition full of hate for everyone. None of them seem to have known love growing up.
Many Americans specially rightwing nuts act as-if US of A is the only country in the world that has freedom, constitution and is democratic. No wonder they are all so entitled. Screw HIPPA, this person needs to be named and shamed. If s/he has no regards for others safety then s/he has no right to HIPPA
@Wade You are absolutely sickening. You said "COVID-19 was potentially the best thing to happen to our society since the holocaust. We have weak and pathetic people in our society that take more than they give and need to be eradicated." IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS THAT ACCEPTABLE?! You are a disgrace to humanity if you truly think that way, and if it was a joke, then your sense of humor needs some serious adjustment. If...
@Wade You are absolutely sickening. You said "COVID-19 was potentially the best thing to happen to our society since the holocaust. We have weak and pathetic people in our society that take more than they give and need to be eradicated." IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS THAT ACCEPTABLE?! You are a disgrace to humanity if you truly think that way, and if it was a joke, then your sense of humor needs some serious adjustment. If that's your true opinion then I hope Covid-19 takes you and any of your ill-bred offspring with it.
No doubt this ignoramus would-be passenger cited his 'Constitutional right' for freedom to do as he wished.
Seems to me, as a non-American, that your aged and creaking Constitution is sending your country down the gurgler. Alleged freedoms, the right to bear arms (it was one-shot blunderbusses in those days!), a president subverting the rights of many citizens, etc etc.....
You need a strong Supreme Court at the very least to keep this...
No doubt this ignoramus would-be passenger cited his 'Constitutional right' for freedom to do as he wished.
Seems to me, as a non-American, that your aged and creaking Constitution is sending your country down the gurgler. Alleged freedoms, the right to bear arms (it was one-shot blunderbusses in those days!), a president subverting the rights of many citizens, etc etc.....
You need a strong Supreme Court at the very least to keep this edifice from crumbling, but, alas, that institution has been tamed by Trump and is now his puppy dog. Sad, as the orange one is fond of saying.
@Commenting Commenter - Possibly but I see most of these self styled militia clowns as all hat, no cattle. They get off on the idea of playing soldier and intimidating regular people but the moment they actually get into a situation that involves any real danger, they disappear before you can notice. The media really likes to give people like militias, antivax nuts and face mask protestors a lot of publicity. The truth is they're...
@Commenting Commenter - Possibly but I see most of these self styled militia clowns as all hat, no cattle. They get off on the idea of playing soldier and intimidating regular people but the moment they actually get into a situation that involves any real danger, they disappear before you can notice. The media really likes to give people like militias, antivax nuts and face mask protestors a lot of publicity. The truth is they're a tiny, tiny minority and if the governments really took their gloves off and decided to play rough, they'd be crushed in seconds.
This is absolutely outrageous! Why are we shaming people for knowingly flying with diagnosed cases of COVID-19?!? These people are heroes! The faster we can spread the virus, the better off we’re all going to be...at least the strongest of us. COVID-19 was potentially the best thing to happen to our society since the holocaust. We have weak and pathetic people in our society that take more than they give and need to be eradicated.
@jetlaggedaf Good idea. However, if the government were to do that, you'd have the militias (you know… the ones that are "supposedly" allowed under the 2nd Amendment) in full force because "you're taking away my freedoms." There would be stand-offs with local and federal law enforcement. What we need in the US is a good old-fashioned dictatorship. Then people can talk about their "freedoms." Ridiculous…
I dunno, I might have missed it, but I’ve been digging and darned if I can find where Lucky (Ben) said this person should be “named and shamed”.
Americans are in many ways like Chinese and unlike Japanese and Germans, in that they will often ignore rules unless there are strong enough incentives in place to discourage a particular action. There is a good reason why China did a complete lockdown and prevented people from leaving their homes. They knew there would be a small percentage of people who would ignore the rules. In the US they pretend people will follow the rules...
Americans are in many ways like Chinese and unlike Japanese and Germans, in that they will often ignore rules unless there are strong enough incentives in place to discourage a particular action. There is a good reason why China did a complete lockdown and prevented people from leaving their homes. They knew there would be a small percentage of people who would ignore the rules. In the US they pretend people will follow the rules and thus make compliance voluntary. Voluntary has never worked - as an example there is a reason why retail stores have theft compliance officers. Now look at the results - China's two largest cities, Beijing and Shanghai never had large outbreaks and even fewer deaths. Contrast this with NYC, Chicago, etc. Before someone mentions China and lying about the numbers, I will say it is not relevant to their results.
This is directed toward all of you haters:
I can’t believe what a bunch of assholes you people are. Try telling someone who doesn’t live under the umbrella of liberty how awful it is.
The person in this post is not exhibiting liberty. They are exhibiting selfishness. Liberty is having the freedom to do what you want as long as it does not infringe on others liberty. This is clearly a case where this...
This is directed toward all of you haters:
I can’t believe what a bunch of assholes you people are. Try telling someone who doesn’t live under the umbrella of liberty how awful it is.
The person in this post is not exhibiting liberty. They are exhibiting selfishness. Liberty is having the freedom to do what you want as long as it does not infringe on others liberty. This is clearly a case where this person is infringing on others liberty.
But being so cavalier as to use this comments section to insult, demean and otherwise excoriate people you don’t even know is a sad sad reflection of your individual lack of class , education and respect for others. I can’t believe you people. You are despicable.
American
Yes this individual who tried to fly fully knowing he was positive should have been detained regardless of HIPPA or any other protection. I hope they are tracking his whereabouts because he will probably try again. I could give a rats ass whether Ajay is a physician or not. His opinion holds the same weight as everyone else’s. He makes some good points. How long are all you politically correct left wing zealots going to...
Yes this individual who tried to fly fully knowing he was positive should have been detained regardless of HIPPA or any other protection. I hope they are tracking his whereabouts because he will probably try again. I could give a rats ass whether Ajay is a physician or not. His opinion holds the same weight as everyone else’s. He makes some good points. How long are all you politically correct left wing zealots going to lock down for? What are you going to do if an immunization for COVID 19 is not reliable or readily available. Criticizing someone who doesn’t have COVID 19 symptoms for going to Iceland is ludicrous. If you all want to stay home do so but don’t try your BS shaming techniques on the rest of us. Enough already!
How cute is Antonio’s English with the Italian-style syntax? I agree with what he says but the way he said it put a smile on my face. What a shame with no travel we will no longer be exposed to Chinglish, Deutschlisch, Franglais and all the other iterations of English that make this world so damn wonderful and interesting. To non-native English speakers in the tourism industry I implore you during this downtime to keep...
How cute is Antonio’s English with the Italian-style syntax? I agree with what he says but the way he said it put a smile on my face. What a shame with no travel we will no longer be exposed to Chinglish, Deutschlisch, Franglais and all the other iterations of English that make this world so damn wonderful and interesting. To non-native English speakers in the tourism industry I implore you during this downtime to keep learning English, the world language, but don’t get too proficient as to us the way you speak English is funny, sexy and just too cute. Peace.
Before people jump on the of course it's an American please remember that 4 million high tailed it out of wuhan right before their airports and train stations shut down with many well aware they were sick. Same thing in Europe. Many of the nyc cases were already linked to European travel. It would be ridiculous to think only Americans were part of that travel pack knowing they were sick. Not excusing this one fool...
Before people jump on the of course it's an American please remember that 4 million high tailed it out of wuhan right before their airports and train stations shut down with many well aware they were sick. Same thing in Europe. Many of the nyc cases were already linked to European travel. It would be ridiculous to think only Americans were part of that travel pack knowing they were sick. Not excusing this one fool because yes we have a lot of morons in the usa as well but to allude that Moronism isn't pervasive in other country.... Please I've lived all over the planet. Just as many morons outside of the usa
The number of closet statists here is shocking. Let’s just put everyone in jail. Freedom apparently means nothing.
@mitch cumstein, you hate all Americans because this one incident happened in America? Really? That is the very definition of racist bigotry.
Ahhh the man in the igloo has spoken again, whats the name @eskimo? . Stay in the igloo you idiot, you're not worth it. If you don't understand your backhanded comments about Singapore, then you're more of a moron than I originally considered.
This is why we can't do things the way countries like Germany and Japan have done things this crisis. Their cultures are one of responsibility and self discipline, something nobody would ever associate with America at the best of times. The American experience always comes down to the saying - "there's always at least one a**hole".
It's time to put some teeth into enforcing quarantines and we don't need to pass existing laws to...
This is why we can't do things the way countries like Germany and Japan have done things this crisis. Their cultures are one of responsibility and self discipline, something nobody would ever associate with America at the best of times. The American experience always comes down to the saying - "there's always at least one a**hole".
It's time to put some teeth into enforcing quarantines and we don't need to pass existing laws to do this. The DOJ should issue guidance to all prosecutors saying that anyone caught violating a quarantine after they have been notified that they're covid positive should be charged with attempted manslaughter if they get someone sick and manslaughter if someone they infect dies. They should also be open to civil suits covering financial costs for decontamination, cleaning and treatment. This should be broadly publicized and state AGs should indicate a zero tolerance approach to enforcement. Make a few examples, send them to jail and see the rest of the manbabies (or their female counterparts) in our society fall into line.
If COVID 19 is a notifiable disease, which in many countries it is, remarks about violating HIPAA rules have no merit.
Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you. karma is a bitch. He/she will get his/her due one of these days.
Testing Positive doesn't mean he had the Virus. Even a good test us wrong usually 10% of the time and these are less reliable than that. What about all the "symptom free positives." Maybe they are just False Positives. Wake Up people.
Solution: Remove/deny all taxpayer health care service to people who do stuff like that. Actually, deny health care altogether (even your private one—it should be an exclusion) for endangering thousands of people. They caught him before the security checkpoint, who knows how many people he infected since the day he got diagnosed to his arrival in the airport.
How much you want to bet some covidiot with the virus tries to board a plane to Iceland when they start accepting tourists?
Of course it’s American... so disgusting
“Frankly I feel like there should be punishment for someone who does this…”
Crises really bring out the statist in people...
Typical stupid Americans.
Agreed, "Ajay" is a fraud. For starters, any real physician would know that when Magic Johnson disclosed his HIV+ status in 1991, the dynamics of transmission and risk were EXTREMELY well understood. There may have been ungrounded fear and/or discrimination, but the science was not the slightest bit in question.
Any supposed MD who says otherwise is not a real doctor, just some keyboard jockey troll.
in the name of First Admenment. that is the definition of Americans.
Because Trump supporters don't fly on the same planes...sheesh. I think all of Don Lemon's 10 viewers hang out on OMAAT.
It's pretty sad the idea of personal responsibility is such a foreign concept to many. No wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket.
“Ajay” isn’t really a physician and he should be banned from commenting here.
@S so you are implying the continued bashing of 300+ million people is justified, got it.
And I while I believe this guy is very much in the wrong, stop comparing this to an AIDS guy having sex with everyone, because last time I checked AIDS doesn’t go away after 2-3 weeks for most people.
Correction: Like others who do dangerous stuff – regardless of political affiliations – this person should be banned from THE AIRLINE for life !
Like others who do dangerous stuff - regardless of political affiliations - this person should be banned from Delta for life !
wadacash says:
May 23, 2020 at 8:47 am
What you’re proposing is a HIPAA violation, Lucky
Not true. The law says a "covered entity", not Lucky.
This passenger is like a HIV person purposely having sex with many people.
There should be prison. 3 months is ok since the FedEx pilot got 4 weeks, reduced to 3 if good behavior and the FedEx pilot wasn't sick, just ignored the quarantine order to buy masks and hand sanitizer.
"Republic party members think that freedom means the ability to infect other people."
And if that doesn't work, we'll get you with poisonous air or dirty water.
@Jan-Except this isn’t the first time that this has happened in the US, and it has happened at a MUCH higher rate in the US that elsewhere.
Gotta be a Trump supporter. They are dumb AF.
Because this one guy literally represents all Americans, so let’s all continue to bash and circlejerk about how “selfish” all Americans are. Good job, mooks on the internet.
It seems that the facts as presented here are awfully hazy to justify such confident moralizing....either denouncing the person or celebrating the health officer.
Are there kids who urgently need attention back home? Are there sufficient financial resources to park unexpectedly in Michigan for two weeks?
Are you not a little bit uncomfortable with a health office, not operating in a judicial context (although she did threaten to enlist a court) , tracking someone’s movements...
It seems that the facts as presented here are awfully hazy to justify such confident moralizing....either denouncing the person or celebrating the health officer.
Are there kids who urgently need attention back home? Are there sufficient financial resources to park unexpectedly in Michigan for two weeks?
Are you not a little bit uncomfortable with a health office, not operating in a judicial context (although she did threaten to enlist a court) , tracking someone’s movements and travel records?
There seems a slight whiff of vigilantism in this episode and the reaction to the episode.....The outrage may be justified if we know all the facts, but it’s possible a measure of sympathy for someone caught in a terrible situation, and needing to travel for non-selfish reasons, might also be justified.
Americans are some of the most selfish people on Earth, which is why this crisis is such a problem here. Freedom requires working together for the benefit of everyone. I have a second EU passport and I'm seriously thinking of migrating to Europe, if the situation here doesn't improve quite quickly. Most of Europe -- the UK a notable exception -- has restored normal life, because people are willing to work together for the benefit...
Americans are some of the most selfish people on Earth, which is why this crisis is such a problem here. Freedom requires working together for the benefit of everyone. I have a second EU passport and I'm seriously thinking of migrating to Europe, if the situation here doesn't improve quite quickly. Most of Europe -- the UK a notable exception -- has restored normal life, because people are willing to work together for the benefit of everyone. Copenhagen, for example, barely looks like anything has changed.
So I absolutely disagree here. I think it’s incredibly appropriate to shame this person for knowingly traveling against guidelines; however, we know about 30-40% of carriers for COVID-19 are asymptomatic but still infectious. Additionally, the U.S. has a high concentration of cases relative to their population. Finally, we have a president that basically insinuated that we should stop testing to decrease the number of positive cases. The U.S. clearly has a posture that people infected,...
So I absolutely disagree here. I think it’s incredibly appropriate to shame this person for knowingly traveling against guidelines; however, we know about 30-40% of carriers for COVID-19 are asymptomatic but still infectious. Additionally, the U.S. has a high concentration of cases relative to their population. Finally, we have a president that basically insinuated that we should stop testing to decrease the number of positive cases. The U.S. clearly has a posture that people infected, complicated and dead from this virus are collateral related to having a “free” country. People who travel for non-essential means may have a decent chance of transmitting the virus. This person subsequently should not be punished. It’s not consistent with how this government, judicial, legislative, executive or otherwise views this virus.
This is why America is F'd. I'm American, living in germany, with no plans to go back. Not that things weren't already going to crap, but covid has really brought out the worst in people and people's hardons with fake freedom is just such a bore.
Everyone relax – The curve has been flattened. Hospitals were not overwhelmed. No one died for lack of a ventilator. The point of staying at home is not to eliminate the virus.
The next time you go out, assume that people around you are Covid+. Just like in Flu season, assume everyone has the flu. By maintaining social distancing, masking, screenings, and hand washing, any business and individual can go back to work.
I find...
Everyone relax – The curve has been flattened. Hospitals were not overwhelmed. No one died for lack of a ventilator. The point of staying at home is not to eliminate the virus.
The next time you go out, assume that people around you are Covid+. Just like in Flu season, assume everyone has the flu. By maintaining social distancing, masking, screenings, and hand washing, any business and individual can go back to work.
I find the most ardent “stay at home” advocates are able to comfortably work from home while ordering necessities and luxuries by delivery. For some reason, putting several delivery drivers at risk for your goods is ok but it’s wrong for someone to step on an airplane being covid+.
@Luke – try reading about medical history before blathering like you are an Infectious Disease expert. When HIV first came around, we had no freaking clue how it was transmitted. Think back to Magic Johnson and the Dream Team.
As a physician, I find it insulting that someone would dare “name and shame” another human being for having an infection. I’ve been working at the hospital with several Covid+ patients over the last two months. Hearing people call others irresponsible for leaving or returning home is laughable.
Stay home all you want. Order your grubhub, amazon and wine deliveries for another 10 years. Your condition will not change if others decide to go out into the world. Stop being angry at others doing what you have no courage to do.
@Andy
Europe is not a country, not even the EU (Thank God) is a country.
How cases are handled differs from country to country.
You have had cases in Europe as well of idiots not following the rules either, especially career criminals that don't give a fuck about laws.
He probably went in and got tested then got the results over the phone and was told to go home and stay there for 14 days. So that's what he was gonna do.
This is where contact tracing has to happen. So this person left the airport. Now, what? There's got to be a system inplace to prevent any additional infections by this individual and provide care for him at the same time. Countries like South Korea would have been all over this thing. That's the key difference between those who have control over this thing and those who claim to have it under control but actually don't....
This is where contact tracing has to happen. So this person left the airport. Now, what? There's got to be a system inplace to prevent any additional infections by this individual and provide care for him at the same time. Countries like South Korea would have been all over this thing. That's the key difference between those who have control over this thing and those who claim to have it under control but actually don't. We can't just feel relieved because he left the airport.
In times like this you need to sacrifice some freedom. And no this doesn't mean we are taking your guns away.
See how countries like Singapore is doing a much better job dealing with the virus.
I quote myself from another post a week ago.
“It is pretty much expected from an authoritarian regime with draconian policies.
But that’s what it takes to defend a tiny island from foreign powers.”
And to the...
In times like this you need to sacrifice some freedom. And no this doesn't mean we are taking your guns away.
See how countries like Singapore is doing a much better job dealing with the virus.
I quote myself from another post a week ago.
“It is pretty much expected from an authoritarian regime with draconian policies.
But that’s what it takes to defend a tiny island from foreign powers.”
And to the moron, Crosscourt, this is still a compliment to Singapore.
@Turco
Burned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Luke
To be fair “god bless our troops” isn't a good example because some don't have a god, some don't share a same god. So your god isn't my god, they can each get their own version of blessing. Even when Hindus are fighting each other might be backed by a different god.
@Ernest – "People feel entitled – and the liberal media eggs them on."
Demanding freedom without accepting responsibility is the ultimate entitlement, and exclaiming "god bless our troops" is the original virtue signal.
Not surprised there are people like that. In fact, some of the commenters on here would probably try to pull that off.
Some Americans have very interesting views of what freedom and capitalism mean.
Republic party members think that freedom means the ability to infect other people.
Conservatism is a sickness and a mental health issue.
I'm not sure how things work in the US. But here in Europe everyone testing positive is quarantined by order of the state physician (a MD with the legal authority to impose quarantine). In most countries there is even a quarantine imposed while awaiting the test results, which is obviously lifted in case the test result is negative.
Im sure thousands of people have flown in that condition knowingly - including people in other countries. People feel entitled - and the liberal media eggs them on.
One day, the hysteria for "freedom" in this nation will kill us all
There need to be quarantine hotels set up where people who have fever and turn out to be positive can spend 14 days, until the symptoms disappear, or if they have a turn for the worse, can go to a hospital. This can be done with hotels that are sitting empty. An infected person should not be allowed to travel and infect others, but should have access to a place where to isolate safely. Naming...
There need to be quarantine hotels set up where people who have fever and turn out to be positive can spend 14 days, until the symptoms disappear, or if they have a turn for the worse, can go to a hospital. This can be done with hotels that are sitting empty. An infected person should not be allowed to travel and infect others, but should have access to a place where to isolate safely. Naming and shaming one individual is not going to put the policy of quarantining in place. There are hundreds of stories from around the world of people skipping quarantining and being super spreaders, putting other people in great danger. What needs to happen is better planning of responses at city and state levels.
@wadacash: If that person was arrested, it's no longer a HIPAA violation to name and shame.
For me it’s just like travelling, just me think... Iceland, because I’m tired about being home in Miami...
I am getting so tired of those that think they're special, and don't just give a sh*t about how their actions affect others.
No excuse except pure stupidity. Special or stupid?
This is why Covid19 tests need to be compulsory at the airport with a corresponding wait time to be cleared before you can go through security. If they extend this to any staff working at the airport then you truly have a safe environment in the airplanes and we don't have to wear masks or be concerned that the person next to us is a health threat. If we can add security fees then the Covid19 test must be priced in to the cost of the ticket.
Ad a lawyer I can tell you that In Italy for something like that, there is a fine from 400 to 6000 Euro, and you risk from 1 to (in the worst cases) 12 years of jail (for voluntary epidemic). And it’s damn’ right! it’s also strictly forbidden to travel everywhere if you are positive to covid 19, with any vehicle (plane, car, bus, truck, bike or even walking). The rule is: first you recover,...
Ad a lawyer I can tell you that In Italy for something like that, there is a fine from 400 to 6000 Euro, and you risk from 1 to (in the worst cases) 12 years of jail (for voluntary epidemic). And it’s damn’ right! it’s also strictly forbidden to travel everywhere if you are positive to covid 19, with any vehicle (plane, car, bus, truck, bike or even walking). The rule is: first you recover, and than you can go everywher. Still Now, travels between different regione are not allowed (they are allowed only for work, or life or death reasons). This desease is a serius thing, but not everybody understand it!
Why had this person travelled to visit family in the first place? What about ‘stay home’ is so hard?
@Matt – This is not someone with HIV passively interacting with people in a manner in which HIV is not transmissible. This is someone with HIV cutting another person and then attempting to rub their own blood into the wound.
I obviously do not know the details of the situation. I also agree that it is very irresponsible for someone to knowingly fly in a situation like this. I am also not a right wing freedom fetishist. BUT these situations will arise if we end up doing a lot more testing and more comprehensive contact tracing. If the person is positive for COVID-19, then it is not abnormal for them to want to go home...
I obviously do not know the details of the situation. I also agree that it is very irresponsible for someone to knowingly fly in a situation like this. I am also not a right wing freedom fetishist. BUT these situations will arise if we end up doing a lot more testing and more comprehensive contact tracing. If the person is positive for COVID-19, then it is not abnormal for them to want to go home to recover. Obviously this doesn’t mean s/he has to fly. Also this urge for naming/shaming of COVID-19+ people reminds of the stigma surrounding HIV+ people and that’s a very slippery slope once you name/shame.
This is why I wont feel safe in a plane for a long time...
Pretty sure there are a TON more of those people out there that weren't caught. :(
What you’re proposing is a HIPAA violation, Lucky
I agree that there should be a punishment for a flagrant disregard of human life at stake but we’re talking home of the brave land of the free ... right
Americans disgust me.
This is the thing I don't understand about lucky... he wants to name amd shame this person... but he wouldn't name amd shame the small independent hotel a couple weeks ago that was refusing to refund people when the hotel closed. So instead they could continue ripping people off.
I totally agree we can't have that but this raises a good conversation - what to do with people in limbo.... Let's say you live in CA and fly to MI for business....that's too far to drive back home so if you have a fever and get turned away from the airport what do you do? Go back to your hotel? Will the hotel allow you to return? If not where do you go? If...
I totally agree we can't have that but this raises a good conversation - what to do with people in limbo.... Let's say you live in CA and fly to MI for business....that's too far to drive back home so if you have a fever and get turned away from the airport what do you do? Go back to your hotel? Will the hotel allow you to return? If not where do you go? If the hotel lets you back what if you cannot afford to pay for 2 extra weeks in a hotel plus eating out for 2 weeks? That's over $1000 just for a pretty crappy hotel for 2 weeks...I bet half of Americans can't suddenly afford that. Does each city have to have some sort of housing for these people that aren't sick enough for hospitals but aren't allowed to fly? Would you even be allowed to rent a car?
Welcome to the United States... This is why with less than 5% of the population, there are ~30% of cases and death.
Wow that’s unbelievable. Great job to the staff for tracking the person down.
I doubt there will be any punishment given the freedom fetish we have in America